[arr] Re: Sharks from CR
Appreciate your critique. I don't share your views, but you bring up some interesting points. Let's see how the Western elite comment on this score. Is there a right way or wrong way to develop a theme or is it just stylistic differences and personal opinions? I personally enjoyed all the embellishments and variations from an aesthetic and compositional standpoint, but I think you're coming more from a thematic architectural perspective. If you enjoy more of the minimalistic scores, I can see why you would have a problem with this type of score and call it "sappy and overdone", but again, for me personally, I enjoy musical embellishments and very emotional music a lot! Will be interesting to see how all this plays out on screen. --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Ramesh R wrote: > > That's entirely right! If I'm not mistaken it was Elmer Bernstein who said > something along the lines of "the best way to score a comedy is to score the > seriousness" rather than to "mickey-mouse" it. Here's a classic example from > Airplane and another from Pink Panther (Mancini) where, even if there's a bit > of a comedic element with the tuba, there's a sad theme at its heart. > > If you notice the sharks theme, there's a transparent melody in strings (the > harp?) that's consistent with the water connotation (check out U-Boat theme > from Bose for the same kind of orchestration). And even if the music does get > dramatic and serious, it constantly switches to the water theme and back > hinting that it's not something dangerous. > > That being said, the shark's theme is my least-liked track on the score. It's > just way overblown, and that drone at the end is the kind of musical recourse > that I wish composers used very sparingly. > > And while we're on the topic, one of my peeves with CR is that a lot of it is > very sappy and overdone (pulls all the strings). Sure, there's an abundance > of melody that's not so common in comedies today, but I would have liked if > it toned things down. As for the themes, there's very little development with > them. It's not a good habit that he's taking a theme and repeating it over > and over. Take the "Jason & Cynthia suite"... its pretty good for 2 minutes > after which it just repeats with more dramatic renditions of the theme. What > does it mean musically? Thankfully there's a lovely respite in the middle > with more oboe goodness that's leads it to a fine close. Go back to the > Netaji theme from Bose. He introduces a beautiful theme but repeats it with > very little difference in orchestration. I'd like to see some economy with > expression and more of a development with themes and tying them together. > There's definitely a way to use repetitions wisely (think > 'minimalism' and composers like Kilar, Nyman, Glass) but not like this. > > I'm also not fond of his habit of punctuating things with (sometimes > staggered percussion followed by) cymbals before going to a crescendo. Here's > an example. And another. It sounds cliched to me. > > I wish they had better lyrics to Sajna, which sounds cheesy to me. That ARR > and PJ will be performing this in LA, makes it further corny. > > But all said and done, it's a fun score and it's for a rom-com so I'll take > it easy. There's something for everyone. > > > > > > > > From: ichord > To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:15:05 AM > Subject: [arr] Re: Sharks from CR > > The use of serious music in a comedy film is to highlight the "seriousness" > of someone being the butt of a joke..meaning, when you're the butt of a joke, > it's not funny for you, but funny for everyone else. Many American comedies > have used serious music to highlight subtle humor in irony, paradox, and > counterpoint. I thought the music for Sharks was extremely cleverly done, to > heighten suspense for that scene. Most composers use a Jaws like theme to do > this, but ARR thought more creatively and added this unique musicjust > brilliant IMO. > > > > --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, "Jahanzeb" wrote: > > > > it is a great track however i felt it is misfit for a comedy soundtrack. it > > didn't gel well with that sharks scene in a video someone posted here. in > > fact the way track starts it seems from some horror, thriller movie. > > similarly a few other tracks i found too serious stuff to be used in a > > comedy movie e.g. Itinerary, Intervention
Re: [arr] Re: Sharks from CR
That's entirely right! If I'm not mistaken it was Elmer Bernstein who said something along the lines of "the best way to score a comedy is to score the seriousness" rather than to "mickey-mouse" it. Here's a classic example from Airplane and another from Pink Panther (Mancini) where, even if there's a bit of a comedic element with the tuba, there's a sad theme at its heart. If you notice the sharks theme, there's a transparent melody in strings (the harp?) that's consistent with the water connotation (check out U-Boat theme from Bose for the same kind of orchestration). And even if the music does get dramatic and serious, it constantly switches to the water theme and back hinting that it's not something dangerous. That being said, the shark's theme is my least-liked track on the score. It's just way overblown, and that drone at the end is the kind of musical recourse that I wish composers used very sparingly. And while we're on the topic, one of my peeves with CR is that a lot of it is very sappy and overdone (pulls all the strings). Sure, there's an abundance of melody that's not so common in comedies today, but I would have liked if it toned things down. As for the themes, there's very little development with them. It's not a good habit that he's taking a theme and repeating it over and over. Take the "Jason & Cynthia suite"... its pretty good for 2 minutes after which it just repeats with more dramatic renditions of the theme. What does it mean musically? Thankfully there's a lovely respite in the middle with more oboe goodness that's leads it to a fine close. Go back to the Netaji theme from Bose. He introduces a beautiful theme but repeats it with very little difference in orchestration. I'd like to see some economy with expression and more of a development with themes and tying them together. There's definitely a way to use repetitions wisely (think 'minimalism' and composers like Kilar, Nyman, Glass) but not like this. I'm also not fond of his habit of punctuating things with (sometimes staggered percussion followed by) cymbals before going to a crescendo. Here's an example. And another. It sounds cliched to me. I wish they had better lyrics to Sajna, which sounds cheesy to me. That ARR and PJ will be performing this in LA, makes it further corny. But all said and done, it's a fun score and it's for a rom-com so I'll take it easy. There's something for everyone. From: ichord To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:15:05 AM Subject: [arr] Re: Sharks from CR The use of serious music in a comedy film is to highlight the "seriousness" of someone being the butt of a joke..meaning, when you're the butt of a joke, it's not funny for you, but funny for everyone else. Many American comedies have used serious music to highlight subtle humor in irony, paradox, and counterpoint. I thought the music for Sharks was extremely cleverly done, to heighten suspense for that scene. Most composers use a Jaws like theme to do this, but ARR thought more creatively and added this unique musicjust brilliant IMO. --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, "Jahanzeb" wrote: > > it is a great track however i felt it is misfit for a comedy soundtrack. it > didn't gel well with that sharks scene in a video someone posted here. in > fact the way track starts it seems from some horror, thriller movie. > similarly a few other tracks i found too serious stuff to be used in a comedy > movie e.g. Itinerary, Intervention and even Meeting Marcel. > anyways this is too early to say, lets see how they are used in the film. > > - > Jahanzeb > > > --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, "ichord" wrote: > > > > I don't see people much talking about this track, but I think it's simply > > one of the most brilliant tracks in CR. Love the dramatic use of > > instruments in this track in fast motion amidst the raaga based vibrophone > > interludes followed by a very intense ending with ARR's high pitched, > > soaring voice and the high sustained strings..simply so haunting! > > >
Re: [arr] Re: Sharks from CR
On 9/30/2009 7:48 PM India Time, _Jahanzeb_ wrote: > it is a great track however i felt it is misfit for a comedy soundtrack. it > didn't gel well with that sharks scene in a video someone posted here. in > fact the way track starts it seems from some horror, thriller movie. > similarly a few other tracks i found too serious stuff to be used in a comedy > movie e.g. Itinerary, Intervention and even Meeting Marcel. > anyways this is too early to say, lets see how they are used in the film. I was also thinking that. Most of the tracks of CR are making me wonder what they are doing in a claimed "Comedy" movie. Sajna is so soulful and has so much Pathos that it would have done proud even in a Meena Kumari Gurudutt through and through melodrama movie It would be interesting to see how such different type of music genre fit in comedy movie. -- Rawat > > - > Jahanzeb > > > --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, "ichord" wrote: >> I don't see people much talking about this track, but I think it's simply >> one of the most brilliant tracks in CR. Love the dramatic use of >> instruments in this track in fast motion amidst the raaga based vibrophone >> interludes followed by a very intense ending with ARR's high pitched, >> soaring voice and the high sustained strings..simply so haunting!
[arr] Re: Sharks from CR
The use of serious music in a comedy film is to highlight the "seriousness" of someone being the butt of a joke..meaning, when you're the butt of a joke, it's not funny for you, but funny for everyone else. Many American comedies have used serious music to highlight subtle humor in irony, paradox, and counterpoint. I thought the music for Sharks was extremely cleverly done, to heighten suspense for that scene. Most composers use a Jaws like theme to do this, but ARR thought more creatively and added this unique musicjust brilliant IMO. --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, "Jahanzeb" wrote: > > it is a great track however i felt it is misfit for a comedy soundtrack. it > didn't gel well with that sharks scene in a video someone posted here. in > fact the way track starts it seems from some horror, thriller movie. > similarly a few other tracks i found too serious stuff to be used in a comedy > movie e.g. Itinerary, Intervention and even Meeting Marcel. > anyways this is too early to say, lets see how they are used in the film. > > - > Jahanzeb > > > --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, "ichord" wrote: > > > > I don't see people much talking about this track, but I think it's simply > > one of the most brilliant tracks in CR. Love the dramatic use of > > instruments in this track in fast motion amidst the raaga based vibrophone > > interludes followed by a very intense ending with ARR's high pitched, > > soaring voice and the high sustained strings..simply so haunting! > > >
[arr] Re: Sharks from CR
it is a great track however i felt it is misfit for a comedy soundtrack. it didn't gel well with that sharks scene in a video someone posted here. in fact the way track starts it seems from some horror, thriller movie. similarly a few other tracks i found too serious stuff to be used in a comedy movie e.g. Itinerary, Intervention and even Meeting Marcel. anyways this is too early to say, lets see how they are used in the film. - Jahanzeb --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, "ichord" wrote: > > I don't see people much talking about this track, but I think it's simply one > of the most brilliant tracks in CR. Love the dramatic use of instruments in > this track in fast motion amidst the raaga based vibrophone interludes > followed by a very intense ending with ARR's high pitched, soaring voice and > the high sustained strings..simply so haunting! >
[arr] Re: Sharks from CR
agree - this is the first track that struck me as 'brilliant' when i heard it off the cr website (before the entire soundtrack website was released) ... it's arguably the best in the album! --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, "ichord" wrote: > > I don't see people much talking about this track, but I think it's simply one > of the most brilliant tracks in CR. Love the dramatic use of instruments in > this track in fast motion amidst the raaga based vibrophone interludes > followed by a very intense ending with ARR's high pitched, soaring voice and > the high sustained strings..simply so haunting! >
