Re: [Newbies] Re: Squeak Guilt
On Dec 16, 2008, at 5:24 PM, Rob Rothwell wrote: On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 3:43 PM, Claus Kick wrote: Klaus D. Witzel wrote: On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 20:50:58 +0100, Claus Kick wrote: Other than the looks, I do not like the "feeling", the speed, the absence of native widgets (why do everything yourself? you have an OS to participate from!) I really like WxSqueak (http://www.wxsqueak.org; make sure to use the 0.5.1 version for the best experience!), I just wish I had a little more energy to be able to load it into a "current" Squeak system to take advantage of the new development tools. However, if you don't mind programming in a 3.8? image, you should check it out. It takes a custom VM as well, and I have had a hard time loading all the "goodies" I wanted into an image. I started to look into WxSqueak, but then found out that development of it had pretty much been abandoned. Is that still the case? --- Mark Volkmann ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Re: [Newbies] Re: Squeak Guilt
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 3:43 PM, Claus Kick wrote: > Klaus D. Witzel wrote: > >> On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 20:50:58 +0100, Claus Kick wrote: >> > Other than the looks, I do not like the "feeling", the speed, the absence > of native widgets (why do everything yourself? you have an OS to participate > from!) I really like WxSqueak (http://www.wxsqueak.org; make sure to use the 0.5.1 version for the best experience!), I just wish I had a little more energy to be able to load it into a "current" Squeak system to take advantage of the new development tools. However, if you don't mind programming in a 3.8? image, you should check it out. It takes a custom VM as well, and I have had a hard time loading all the "goodies" I wanted into an image. > > > I know, even Cincom canned their "first new owner-drawn system, then on top > of that native widgets if the platform allows"-Projects > (Pollock/Panda/Chagall). Having worked a bit in that direction, I also know > how tedious or more likely impossible a task this is. > > Still, one has dreams or graphics contexts being written to the GPU > directly ... hm, sounds like OpenGL, doesnt it? I don't think you can do that in WxSqueak, but you can do some alpha blending... Rob ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Re: [Newbies] Re: Squeak Guilt
Klaus D. Witzel wrote: On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 20:50:58 +0100, Claus Kick wrote: Mark Volkmann wrote: That sounds great for applications with a web interface, but I wish there was a more attractive, easier way to do the same thing with Squeak-based non-web applications. I think that is mainly a problem of Squeak though, not Smalltalk in general. I fully agree though, the UI system of Squeak is just not good. Does it just look not good to you (have you checked UI-Enhancements/Polymorph) or what part of it do you mean? No, I have yet to check Polymorph. I must be blind, but I dont see it on SqueakMap - where is it? Other than the looks, I do not like the "feeling", the speed, the absence of native widgets (why do everything yourself? you have an OS to participate from!) I know, even Cincom canned their "first new owner-drawn system, then on top of that native widgets if the platform allows"-Projects (Pollock/Panda/Chagall). Having worked a bit in that direction, I also know how tedious or more likely impossible a task this is. Still, one has dreams or graphics contexts being written to the GPU directly ... hm, sounds like OpenGL, doesnt it? ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
[Newbies] Re: Squeak Guilt
On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 20:50:58 +0100, Claus Kick wrote: Mark Volkmann wrote: That sounds great for applications with a web interface, but I wish there was a more attractive, easier way to do the same thing with Squeak-based non-web applications. I think that is mainly a problem of Squeak though, not Smalltalk in general. I fully agree though, the UI system of Squeak is just not good. Does it just look not good to you (have you checked UI-Enhancements/Polymorph) or what part of it do you mean? /Klaus -- "If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it". Albert Einstein ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Re: [Newbies] Re: Squeak Guilt
Hi Zulq, It is good to hear about efforts to port things from Python to Smalltalk. Much needed because for such task one must know both languages well. I hope you'll start releasing soon. And don't forget the hardest task, persuading Smalltalkers what are your ports about :) Janko Zulq Alam wrote: Hi Ryan, How about taking some Java libraries relevant to your area of interest and porting them to Squeak/Smalltalk? I've ended up using Python for most of my work because of the libraries available (BeautifulSoup is one). Although Python is OK, I would love to be working in a Smalltalk environment. To keep involved in Squeak/Smalltalk I have been porting some of the libraries that forced the decision. This meant reading and understanding a lot of relevant Python code and working in Squeak on something the community may find useful. It seems like a good compromise to me. Now if only I had time to release something useable? ;) - Zulq Ryan Zerby wrote: I'm in a position where I want to learn Squeak/Smalltalk because it's cool, but I find myself thinking that I should spend my time working on something that might actually advance my career. I used to be a Java Programmer, but am now a Build Engineer, so I don't directly program anymore. I feel that I should be keeping my Java skills up... but that just isn't as spiffy Anyone else in this boat? Is there a Squeak Support Group? A 12 step program? Anyone have a good rationale why I can go ahead and spend my time on Squeak without feeling guilty? :) :) ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners -- Janko Mivšek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
[Newbies] Re: Squeak Guilt
Hi Ryan, How about taking some Java libraries relevant to your area of interest and porting them to Squeak/Smalltalk? I've ended up using Python for most of my work because of the libraries available (BeautifulSoup is one). Although Python is OK, I would love to be working in a Smalltalk environment. To keep involved in Squeak/Smalltalk I have been porting some of the libraries that forced the decision. This meant reading and understanding a lot of relevant Python code and working in Squeak on something the community may find useful. It seems like a good compromise to me. Now if only I had time to release something useable? ;) - Zulq Ryan Zerby wrote: I'm in a position where I want to learn Squeak/Smalltalk because it's cool, but I find myself thinking that I should spend my time working on something that might actually advance my career. I used to be a Java Programmer, but am now a Build Engineer, so I don't directly program anymore. I feel that I should be keeping my Java skills up... but that just isn't as spiffy Anyone else in this boat? Is there a Squeak Support Group? A 12 step program? Anyone have a good rationale why I can go ahead and spend my time on Squeak without feeling guilty? :) :) ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
