[BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas

2006-08-06 Thread Shawn Keen
So many good ideas and not enough time to enact them.


I live in this old 1940's built home with a detached garage. It's a single 
story with an attic. well take that back it has an attic but I'd like to put 
some floors in up there.

Here's what it looks like.  You pull the trap door down in the hall and 
unfold the stairs. when you get up there you have a floored area
 of about 8 by 8. The rest of it is the beams and insalation that feels like 
cotten balls.
 there is a fairly high sealing in there.  Someone over 6 foot would have 
real issues but I can stand up strate in most of it.

First things first would be to put in a floor. Crawling from beam to beam 
isn't all that fun.  What kind of wood will I need. do you do something like 
this in slats or in large peaces? How thick  should I go?  Do I just leave 
the insalation where it is and seal it up?

I hadn't got far enough in to it to know what I am going to do with it other 
than storage. The wife thinks it could be large enough to be another  room. 
Putting in stairs would be one heck of a nightmare I imagine but I'm no 
where near that yet.

Just wanted to pick your brains and see what I am getting myself into.


Dan you should move down here, There's a house for-sale next door! Just 
kidding!

Shawn







To listen to the show archives go to link
 http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
or
ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/

The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday

The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is.
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Visit The New Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various 
List Members At The Following Address:
http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
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Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas

2006-08-06 Thread rj
It depends on how much work you are up to. If there is a area of the house
where you could cut a hole in the ceiling between the ceiling joists,
without running into wires or other things, I would floor it with 3/4 4x8.
If not, than the expensive tongue and groove is the other choice.
- Original Message - 
From: "Shawn Keen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 9:36 AM
Subject: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas


> So many good ideas and not enough time to enact them.
>
>
> I live in this old 1940's built home with a detached garage. It's a single
> story with an attic. well take that back it has an attic but I'd like to
put
> some floors in up there.
>
> Here's what it looks like.  You pull the trap door down in the hall and
> unfold the stairs. when you get up there you have a floored area
>  of about 8 by 8. The rest of it is the beams and insalation that feels
like
> cotten balls.
>  there is a fairly high sealing in there.  Someone over 6 foot would have
> real issues but I can stand up strate in most of it.
>
> First things first would be to put in a floor. Crawling from beam to beam
> isn't all that fun.  What kind of wood will I need. do you do something
like
> this in slats or in large peaces? How thick  should I go?  Do I just leave
> the insalation where it is and seal it up?
>
> I hadn't got far enough in to it to know what I am going to do with it
other
> than storage. The wife thinks it could be large enough to be another
room.
> Putting in stairs would be one heck of a nightmare I imagine but I'm no
> where near that yet.
>
> Just wanted to pick your brains and see what I am getting myself into.
>
>
> Dan you should move down here, There's a house for-sale next door! Just
> kidding!
>
> Shawn
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To listen to the show archives go to link
>  http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
> or
> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/
>
> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday
>
> The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is.
> http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml
>
> Visit The New Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From
Various List Members At The Following Address:
> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
> Visit the new archives page at the following address
> http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/
> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man
list just send a blank message to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: 8/5/06
>
>



To listen to the show archives go to link
 http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
or
ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/

The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday

The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is.
http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml

Visit The New Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various 
List Members At The Following Address:
http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
Visit the new archives page at the following address
http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/  
For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man list 
just send a blank message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
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Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas

2006-08-06 Thread Dale Leavens
What do they have for a floor up there now?

Generally you wouldn't be able to get sheets of plywood up through the trap 
door so you will need to use plank construction. One trouble though is 
nailing, the joists are probably only 2 by 4 and not rigid enough, hammering 
and moving about particularly over wider spans like a living room will 
probably cause movement and cracks in the ceiling plaster or screws or nails 
to pop.

You could screw or use a power nailer.

If the room is to get any amount of use you might consider sistering thicker 
joists, usually 2 by 8 is considered minimal.

Now if you live where winters get below freezing you will also want to vapor 
barrier and insulate the walls and ceiling of the room and be sure you leave 
air space and ventilation between the finished area and the under side of 
the roof to prevent the collection of moisture and condensation.



Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype DaleLeavens
Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.


- Original Message - 
From: "Shawn Keen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:36 AM
Subject: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas


> So many good ideas and not enough time to enact them.
>
>
> I live in this old 1940's built home with a detached garage. It's a single
> story with an attic. well take that back it has an attic but I'd like to 
> put
> some floors in up there.
>
> Here's what it looks like.  You pull the trap door down in the hall and
> unfold the stairs. when you get up there you have a floored area
> of about 8 by 8. The rest of it is the beams and insalation that feels 
> like
> cotten balls.
> there is a fairly high sealing in there.  Someone over 6 foot would have
> real issues but I can stand up strate in most of it.
>
> First things first would be to put in a floor. Crawling from beam to beam
> isn't all that fun.  What kind of wood will I need. do you do something 
> like
> this in slats or in large peaces? How thick  should I go?  Do I just leave
> the insalation where it is and seal it up?
>
> I hadn't got far enough in to it to know what I am going to do with it 
> other
> than storage. The wife thinks it could be large enough to be another 
> room.
> Putting in stairs would be one heck of a nightmare I imagine but I'm no
> where near that yet.
>
> Just wanted to pick your brains and see what I am getting myself into.
>
>
> Dan you should move down here, There's a house for-sale next door! Just
> kidding!
>
> Shawn
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To listen to the show archives go to link
> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
> or
> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/
>
> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday
>
> The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is.
> http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml
>
> Visit The New Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From 
> Various List Members At The Following Address:
> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
> Visit the new archives page at the following address
> http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/
> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man 
> list just send a blank message to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/409 - Release Date: 4/08/2006
>
> 



To listen to the show archives go to link
 http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
or
ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/

The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday

The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is.
http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml

Visit The New Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various 
List Members At The Following Address:
http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
Visit the new archives page at the following address
http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/  
For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man list 
just send a blank message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blindhandyman/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas

2006-08-06 Thread Shawn Keen
Okay, I had another look.

> What do they have for a floor up there now?
 a board that's probably about 3 foot wide and 8 feet long.  that's a 
guestament.
 the beams up there are  2 by 8.
 Only the space just beyond the ladder and too the air conditioning unit is 
covered right now.
>
> Generally you wouldn't be able to get sheets of plywood up through the 
> trap
> door so you will need to use plank construction. One trouble though is
> nailing, the joists are probably only 2 by 4 and not rigid enough, 
> hammering
> and moving about particularly over wider spans like a living room will
> probably cause movement and cracks in the ceiling plaster or screws or 
> nails
> to pop.

Just guessing but I think the beams up there are about 3 feet apart. I 
didn't look at all of them but the ones around the opening were.

>
> You could screw or use a power nailer.

Oh for-sure, . grin screws all the way.


Guess I'll be making a trip to home depot next weekend.  I just want to get 
a surface to walk on in place then I can tackle the rest of it.




To listen to the show archives go to link
 http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
or
ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/

The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday

The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is.
http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml

Visit The New Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various 
List Members At The Following Address:
http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
Visit the new archives page at the following address
http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/  
For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man list 
just send a blank message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blindhandyman/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas

2006-08-06 Thread Dale Leavens
The joists then are probably on 24 inch centers. Depending a little on how 
many partitions are under, 2 by 8 should be quite good.

Commonly the sub floor is made of tongue and grooved 5/8th plywood which 
comes in 4 by 8 foot sheets. I doubt you will be able to get them through 
the trap door. You may be able to buy planks of ship which has a rabbet 
along the edges which you nail through to the joist overlapping each piece. 
You may even be able to buy tongue & groove. Traditionally such planks are 
nailed down diagonally across the joists.

If you are going to live in the space then you will either want to bring 
heat into it or remove the insulation to permit heat to rise into the space. 
You will then want to keep that heat from contacting the under side of the 
roof decking unless you live in a moderate climate. Because there is an air 
conditioner I am guessing you will want to insulate against heat on the roof 
from heating that space, either way you will need to maintain air 
circulation under the roof decking. You can leave the insulation over the 
ceiling for it's sound properties and if you are just using the space for 
storage then it won't matter much.

You may like to bring some more electricity up there, lots of people like to 
run a radio shack from their attic or model trains, things like that.

Have fun!


Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype DaleLeavens
Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.


- Original Message - 
From: "Shawn Keen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas


> Okay, I had another look.
>
>> What do they have for a floor up there now?
> a board that's probably about 3 foot wide and 8 feet long.  that's a
> guestament.
> the beams up there are  2 by 8.
> Only the space just beyond the ladder and too the air conditioning unit is
> covered right now.
>>
>> Generally you wouldn't be able to get sheets of plywood up through the
>> trap
>> door so you will need to use plank construction. One trouble though is
>> nailing, the joists are probably only 2 by 4 and not rigid enough,
>> hammering
>> and moving about particularly over wider spans like a living room will
>> probably cause movement and cracks in the ceiling plaster or screws or
>> nails
>> to pop.
>
> Just guessing but I think the beams up there are about 3 feet apart. I
> didn't look at all of them but the ones around the opening were.
>
>>
>> You could screw or use a power nailer.
>
> Oh for-sure, . grin screws all the way.
>
>
> Guess I'll be making a trip to home depot next weekend.  I just want to 
> get
> a surface to walk on in place then I can tackle the rest of it.
>
>
>
>
> To listen to the show archives go to link
> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
> or
> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/
>
> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday
>
> The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is.
> http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml
>
> Visit The New Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From 
> Various List Members At The Following Address:
> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
> Visit the new archives page at the following address
> http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/
> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man 
> list just send a blank message to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/409 - Release Date: 4/08/2006
>
> 



To listen to the show archives go to link
 http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
or
ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/

The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday

The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is.
http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml

Visit The New Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various 
List Members At The Following Address:
http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
Visit the new archives page at the following address
http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/  
For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man list 
just send a blank message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blindhandyman/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas

2006-08-06 Thread spiro
I'm in the same situation as I find that the insolation in my attic must 
be under done.
I thought of 2x 8 ft halves of ply but crossing that 20x 14 ft above the 
livingroom was nearly doomed to crack plaster while I lay out bats of 
insolation.
How do we cover this? for material and personal safety?


On Sun, 6 Aug 2006, Shawn Keen wrote:

> Okay, I had another look.
>
>> What do they have for a floor up there now?
> a board that's probably about 3 foot wide and 8 feet long.  that's a
> guestament.
> the beams up there are  2 by 8.
> Only the space just beyond the ladder and too the air conditioning unit is
> covered right now.
>>
>> Generally you wouldn't be able to get sheets of plywood up through the
>> trap
>> door so you will need to use plank construction. One trouble though is
>> nailing, the joists are probably only 2 by 4 and not rigid enough,
>> hammering
>> and moving about particularly over wider spans like a living room will
>> probably cause movement and cracks in the ceiling plaster or screws or
>> nails
>> to pop.
>
> Just guessing but I think the beams up there are about 3 feet apart. I
> didn't look at all of them but the ones around the opening were.
>
>>
>> You could screw or use a power nailer.
>
> Oh for-sure, . grin screws all the way.
>
>
> Guess I'll be making a trip to home depot next weekend.  I just want to get
> a surface to walk on in place then I can tackle the rest of it.
>
>
>
>
> To listen to the show archives go to link
> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
> or
> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/
>
> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday
>
> The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is.
> http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml
>
> Visit The New Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various 
> List Members At The Following Address:
> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
> Visit the new archives page at the following address
> http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/
> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man list 
> just send a blank message to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


To listen to the show archives go to link
 http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
or
ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/

The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday

The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is.
http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml

Visit The New Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various 
List Members At The Following Address:
http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
Visit the new archives page at the following address
http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/  
For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man list 
just send a blank message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blindhandyman/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas

2006-08-07 Thread Shawn Keen

Just so I am using the right terminology are Joist the 2 by 8 boards that go 
across the sealing or the floor of the attic.? Also what are partitions?


- Original Message - 
From: "Dale Leavens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas


> The joists then are probably on 24 inch centers. Depending a little on how
> many partitions are under, 2 by 8 should be quite good.
>
> Commonly the sub floor is made of tongue and grooved 5/8th plywood which
> comes in 4 by 8 foot sheets. I doubt you will be able to get them through
> the trap door. You may be able to buy planks of ship which has a rabbet
> along the edges which you nail through to the joist overlapping each 
> piece.
> You may even be able to buy tongue & groove. Traditionally such planks are
> nailed down diagonally across the joists.
>
> If you are going to live in the space then you will either want to bring
> heat into it or remove the insulation to permit heat to rise into the 
> space.
> You will then want to keep that heat from contacting the under side of the
> roof decking unless you live in a moderate climate. Because there is an 
> air
> conditioner I am guessing you will want to insulate against heat on the 
> roof
> from heating that space, either way you will need to maintain air
> circulation under the roof decking. You can leave the insulation over the
> ceiling for it's sound properties and if you are just using the space for
> storage then it won't matter much.
>
> You may like to bring some more electricity up there, lots of people like 
> to
> run a radio shack from their attic or model trains, things like that.
>
> Have fun!
>
>
> Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Skype DaleLeavens
> Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Shawn Keen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 9:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas
>
>
>> Okay, I had another look.
>>
>>> What do they have for a floor up there now?
>> a board that's probably about 3 foot wide and 8 feet long.  that's a
>> guestament.
>> the beams up there are  2 by 8.
>> Only the space just beyond the ladder and too the air conditioning unit 
>> is
>> covered right now.
>>>
>>> Generally you wouldn't be able to get sheets of plywood up through the
>>> trap
>>> door so you will need to use plank construction. One trouble though is
>>> nailing, the joists are probably only 2 by 4 and not rigid enough,
>>> hammering
>>> and moving about particularly over wider spans like a living room will
>>> probably cause movement and cracks in the ceiling plaster or screws or
>>> nails
>>> to pop.
>>
>> Just guessing but I think the beams up there are about 3 feet apart. I
>> didn't look at all of them but the ones around the opening were.
>>
>>>
>>> You could screw or use a power nailer.
>>
>> Oh for-sure, . grin screws all the way.
>>
>>
>> Guess I'll be making a trip to home depot next weekend.  I just want to
>> get
>> a surface to walk on in place then I can tackle the rest of it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To listen to the show archives go to link
>> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
>> or
>> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/
>>
>> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
>> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday
>>
>> The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is.
>> http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml
>>
>> Visit The New Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From
>> Various List Members At The Following Address:
>> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
>> Visit the new archives page at the following address
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/
>> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man
>> list just send a blank message to:
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/409 - Release Date: 4/08/2006
>>
>>
>
>
>
> To listen to the show archives go to link
> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
> or
> ftp://ftp.acbra

Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas

2006-08-07 Thread Dale Leavens
If you are able to get a couple of planks up there, three quarters plywood 
or 2 by 8 or 2 by 10 planks so you can get your weight well distributed 
across five or six of the 2 by 4 stringers should work fine. You won't come 
through the ceiling so long as you stay on the planks and by distributing 
your weight over several of the joists, say 6 at a time a 200 pound man is 
only applying about 34 lb. per joist. There are probably additional slopers 
if this is a truss based roof which are also relieving some of the load.

If there is already insulation filling the bays I suggest you run the 
additional insulation bats across the joists to further fill over any gaps 
and further limit thermal bridging through the joists. Don't forget to leave 
ventilation space at the eves so air can flow up over the underside of the 
roof decking


Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype DaleLeavens
Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.


- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas


> I'm in the same situation as I find that the insolation in my attic must
> be under done.
> I thought of 2x 8 ft halves of ply but crossing that 20x 14 ft above the
> livingroom was nearly doomed to crack plaster while I lay out bats of
> insolation.
> How do we cover this? for material and personal safety?
>
>
> On Sun, 6 Aug 2006, Shawn Keen wrote:
>
>> Okay, I had another look.
>>
>>> What do they have for a floor up there now?
>> a board that's probably about 3 foot wide and 8 feet long.  that's a
>> guestament.
>> the beams up there are  2 by 8.
>> Only the space just beyond the ladder and too the air conditioning unit 
>> is
>> covered right now.
>>>
>>> Generally you wouldn't be able to get sheets of plywood up through the
>>> trap
>>> door so you will need to use plank construction. One trouble though is
>>> nailing, the joists are probably only 2 by 4 and not rigid enough,
>>> hammering
>>> and moving about particularly over wider spans like a living room will
>>> probably cause movement and cracks in the ceiling plaster or screws or
>>> nails
>>> to pop.
>>
>> Just guessing but I think the beams up there are about 3 feet apart. I
>> didn't look at all of them but the ones around the opening were.
>>
>>>
>>> You could screw or use a power nailer.
>>
>> Oh for-sure, . grin screws all the way.
>>
>>
>> Guess I'll be making a trip to home depot next weekend.  I just want to 
>> get
>> a surface to walk on in place then I can tackle the rest of it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To listen to the show archives go to link
>> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
>> or
>> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/
>>
>> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
>> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday
>>
>> The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is.
>> http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml
>>
>> Visit The New Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From 
>> Various List Members At The Following Address:
>> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
>> Visit the new archives page at the following address
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/
>> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man 
>> list just send a blank message to:
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> To listen to the show archives go to link
> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
> or
> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/
>
> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday
>
> The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is.
> http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml
>
> Visit The New Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From 
> Various List Members At The Following Address:
> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
> Visit the new archives page at the following address
> http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/
> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man 
> list just send a blank message to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> 

Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas

2006-08-07 Thread Dale Leavens
Joists refer to horizontal structural members. They are the planks set on 
edge under a floor or over a ceiling. It gets a little complicated because 
when talking of a roof frame, the more or less triangular structures now 
commonly used and known as trusses will call the horizontal members 
stringers or something else. It is very unusual to have 2 by 8 as the joists 
over a ceiling except between the stories of a multi-storied home and 
usually those will be 2 by 10 or more.

In a ceiling, 24 inch centres are not unusual even with 2 by 4 construction 
and these days with engineered trusses there may not even be 2 by 4.

Partitions are the walls which separate rooms. The wall between kitchen and 
livingroom usually provides support for a ceiling particularly if it runs 
perpendicular to the ceiling joists. Often they are weight bearing walls and 
should not be removed or if modified, should be reinforced across the tops 
of doors to help support the weight above.



Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype DaleLeavens
Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.


- Original Message - 
From: "Shawn Keen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 3:32 AM
Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas


>
> Just so I am using the right terminology are Joist the 2 by 8 boards that 
> go
> across the sealing or the floor of the attic.? Also what are partitions?
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Dale Leavens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 1:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas
>
>
>> The joists then are probably on 24 inch centers. Depending a little on 
>> how
>> many partitions are under, 2 by 8 should be quite good.
>>
>> Commonly the sub floor is made of tongue and grooved 5/8th plywood which
>> comes in 4 by 8 foot sheets. I doubt you will be able to get them through
>> the trap door. You may be able to buy planks of ship which has a rabbet
>> along the edges which you nail through to the joist overlapping each
>> piece.
>> You may even be able to buy tongue & groove. Traditionally such planks 
>> are
>> nailed down diagonally across the joists.
>>
>> If you are going to live in the space then you will either want to bring
>> heat into it or remove the insulation to permit heat to rise into the
>> space.
>> You will then want to keep that heat from contacting the under side of 
>> the
>> roof decking unless you live in a moderate climate. Because there is an
>> air
>> conditioner I am guessing you will want to insulate against heat on the
>> roof
>> from heating that space, either way you will need to maintain air
>> circulation under the roof decking. You can leave the insulation over the
>> ceiling for it's sound properties and if you are just using the space for
>> storage then it won't matter much.
>>
>> You may like to bring some more electricity up there, lots of people like
>> to
>> run a radio shack from their attic or model trains, things like that.
>>
>> Have fun!
>>
>>
>> Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Skype DaleLeavens
>> Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Shawn Keen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 9:19 AM
>> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas
>>
>>
>>> Okay, I had another look.
>>>
>>>> What do they have for a floor up there now?
>>> a board that's probably about 3 foot wide and 8 feet long.  that's a
>>> guestament.
>>> the beams up there are  2 by 8.
>>> Only the space just beyond the ladder and too the air conditioning unit
>>> is
>>> covered right now.
>>>>
>>>> Generally you wouldn't be able to get sheets of plywood up through the
>>>> trap
>>>> door so you will need to use plank construction. One trouble though is
>>>> nailing, the joists are probably only 2 by 4 and not rigid enough,
>>>> hammering
>>>> and moving about particularly over wider spans like a living room will
>>>> probably cause movement and cracks in the ceiling plaster or screws or
>>>> nails
>>>> to pop.
>>>
>>> Just guessing but I think the beams up there are about 3 feet apart. I
>>> didn't look at all of them but the ones around the opening were.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> You could screw

Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas

2006-08-07 Thread Shawn Keen

I see, thanks for the information.

This home was built in 1941.   back in the time in the U.S when things were 
built to last! Not acording to who the cheapist contracter was.  I'll have 
to ask my neighbor but I bet his home is the same way with the 2 by 8's.





- Original Message - 
From: "Dale Leavens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas


> Joists refer to horizontal structural members. They are the planks set on
> edge under a floor or over a ceiling. It gets a little complicated because
> when talking of a roof frame, the more or less triangular structures now
> commonly used and known as trusses will call the horizontal members
> stringers or something else. It is very unusual to have 2 by 8 as the 
> joists
> over a ceiling except between the stories of a multi-storied home and
> usually those will be 2 by 10 or more.
>
> In a ceiling, 24 inch centres are not unusual even with 2 by 4 
> construction
> and these days with engineered trusses there may not even be 2 by 4.
>
> Partitions are the walls which separate rooms. The wall between kitchen 
> and
> livingroom usually provides support for a ceiling particularly if it runs
> perpendicular to the ceiling joists. Often they are weight bearing walls 
> and
> should not be removed or if modified, should be reinforced across the tops
> of doors to help support the weight above.
>
>
>
> Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Skype DaleLeavens
> Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Shawn Keen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 3:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas
>
>
>>
>> Just so I am using the right terminology are Joist the 2 by 8 boards that
>> go
>> across the sealing or the floor of the attic.? Also what are partitions?
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Dale Leavens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 1:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas
>>
>>
>>> The joists then are probably on 24 inch centers. Depending a little on
>>> how
>>> many partitions are under, 2 by 8 should be quite good.
>>>
>>> Commonly the sub floor is made of tongue and grooved 5/8th plywood which
>>> comes in 4 by 8 foot sheets. I doubt you will be able to get them 
>>> through
>>> the trap door. You may be able to buy planks of ship which has a rabbet
>>> along the edges which you nail through to the joist overlapping each
>>> piece.
>>> You may even be able to buy tongue & groove. Traditionally such planks
>>> are
>>> nailed down diagonally across the joists.
>>>
>>> If you are going to live in the space then you will either want to bring
>>> heat into it or remove the insulation to permit heat to rise into the
>>> space.
>>> You will then want to keep that heat from contacting the under side of
>>> the
>>> roof decking unless you live in a moderate climate. Because there is an
>>> air
>>> conditioner I am guessing you will want to insulate against heat on the
>>> roof
>>> from heating that space, either way you will need to maintain air
>>> circulation under the roof decking. You can leave the insulation over 
>>> the
>>> ceiling for it's sound properties and if you are just using the space 
>>> for
>>> storage then it won't matter much.
>>>
>>> You may like to bring some more electricity up there, lots of people 
>>> like
>>> to
>>> run a radio shack from their attic or model trains, things like that.
>>>
>>> Have fun!
>>>
>>>
>>> Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Skype DaleLeavens
>>> Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Shawn Keen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 9:19 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas
>>>
>>>
>>>> Okay, I had another look.
>>>>
>>>>> What do they have for a floor up there now?
>>>> a board that's probably about 3 foot wide and 8 feet long.  that's a
>>>> guestament.
>>>> the beams up there

Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas

2006-08-07 Thread rj
Shawn,

Ever give it a thought of putting a window in the gable and bringing up
plywood through the opening to cover the floor in the attic?
RJ- Original Message - 
From: "Shawn Keen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas


>
> I see, thanks for the information.
>
> This home was built in 1941.   back in the time in the U.S when things
were
> built to last! Not acording to who the cheapist contracter was.  I'll have
> to ask my neighbor but I bet his home is the same way with the 2 by 8's.
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Dale Leavens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas
>
>
> > Joists refer to horizontal structural members. They are the planks set
on
> > edge under a floor or over a ceiling. It gets a little complicated
because
> > when talking of a roof frame, the more or less triangular structures now
> > commonly used and known as trusses will call the horizontal members
> > stringers or something else. It is very unusual to have 2 by 8 as the
> > joists
> > over a ceiling except between the stories of a multi-storied home and
> > usually those will be 2 by 10 or more.
> >
> > In a ceiling, 24 inch centres are not unusual even with 2 by 4
> > construction
> > and these days with engineered trusses there may not even be 2 by 4.
> >
> > Partitions are the walls which separate rooms. The wall between kitchen
> > and
> > livingroom usually provides support for a ceiling particularly if it
runs
> > perpendicular to the ceiling joists. Often they are weight bearing walls
> > and
> > should not be removed or if modified, should be reinforced across the
tops
> > of doors to help support the weight above.
> >
> >
> >
> > Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Skype DaleLeavens
> > Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.
> >
> >
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "Shawn Keen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 3:32 AM
> > Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Just so I am using the right terminology are Joist the 2 by 8 boards
that
> >> go
> >> across the sealing or the floor of the attic.? Also what are
partitions?
> >>
> >>
> >> - Original Message - 
> >> From: "Dale Leavens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: 
> >> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 1:57 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas
> >>
> >>
> >>> The joists then are probably on 24 inch centers. Depending a little on
> >>> how
> >>> many partitions are under, 2 by 8 should be quite good.
> >>>
> >>> Commonly the sub floor is made of tongue and grooved 5/8th plywood
which
> >>> comes in 4 by 8 foot sheets. I doubt you will be able to get them
> >>> through
> >>> the trap door. You may be able to buy planks of ship which has a
rabbet
> >>> along the edges which you nail through to the joist overlapping each
> >>> piece.
> >>> You may even be able to buy tongue & groove. Traditionally such planks
> >>> are
> >>> nailed down diagonally across the joists.
> >>>
> >>> If you are going to live in the space then you will either want to
bring
> >>> heat into it or remove the insulation to permit heat to rise into the
> >>> space.
> >>> You will then want to keep that heat from contacting the under side of
> >>> the
> >>> roof decking unless you live in a moderate climate. Because there is
an
> >>> air
> >>> conditioner I am guessing you will want to insulate against heat on
the
> >>> roof
> >>> from heating that space, either way you will need to maintain air
> >>> circulation under the roof decking. You can leave the insulation over
> >>> the
> >>> ceiling for it's sound properties and if you are just using the space
> >>> for
> >>> storage then it won't matter much.
> >>>
> >>> You may like to bring some more electricity up there, lots of people
> >>> like
> >>> to
> >>> run a radio shack from their attic or model trains, things like that.
> >>>
> >&g

Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas

2006-08-07 Thread Dale Leavens
Well, for your purposes this is a very good thing. First of all you have 
more room to instal insulation which will ad to comfort in the hot weather 
and cold alike and improve heating costs. Then too you have more structure 
for that storage or other space.



Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype DaleLeavens
Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.


- Original Message - 
From: "Shawn Keen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas


>
> I see, thanks for the information.
>
> This home was built in 1941.   back in the time in the U.S when things 
> were
> built to last! Not acording to who the cheapist contracter was.  I'll have
> to ask my neighbor but I bet his home is the same way with the 2 by 8's.
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Dale Leavens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas
>
>
>> Joists refer to horizontal structural members. They are the planks set on
>> edge under a floor or over a ceiling. It gets a little complicated 
>> because
>> when talking of a roof frame, the more or less triangular structures now
>> commonly used and known as trusses will call the horizontal members
>> stringers or something else. It is very unusual to have 2 by 8 as the
>> joists
>> over a ceiling except between the stories of a multi-storied home and
>> usually those will be 2 by 10 or more.
>>
>> In a ceiling, 24 inch centres are not unusual even with 2 by 4
>> construction
>> and these days with engineered trusses there may not even be 2 by 4.
>>
>> Partitions are the walls which separate rooms. The wall between kitchen
>> and
>> livingroom usually provides support for a ceiling particularly if it runs
>> perpendicular to the ceiling joists. Often they are weight bearing walls
>> and
>> should not be removed or if modified, should be reinforced across the 
>> tops
>> of doors to help support the weight above.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Skype DaleLeavens
>> Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Shawn Keen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 3:32 AM
>> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Just so I am using the right terminology are Joist the 2 by 8 boards 
>>> that
>>> go
>>> across the sealing or the floor of the attic.? Also what are partitions?
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Dale Leavens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 1:57 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas
>>>
>>>
>>>> The joists then are probably on 24 inch centers. Depending a little on
>>>> how
>>>> many partitions are under, 2 by 8 should be quite good.
>>>>
>>>> Commonly the sub floor is made of tongue and grooved 5/8th plywood 
>>>> which
>>>> comes in 4 by 8 foot sheets. I doubt you will be able to get them
>>>> through
>>>> the trap door. You may be able to buy planks of ship which has a rabbet
>>>> along the edges which you nail through to the joist overlapping each
>>>> piece.
>>>> You may even be able to buy tongue & groove. Traditionally such planks
>>>> are
>>>> nailed down diagonally across the joists.
>>>>
>>>> If you are going to live in the space then you will either want to 
>>>> bring
>>>> heat into it or remove the insulation to permit heat to rise into the
>>>> space.
>>>> You will then want to keep that heat from contacting the under side of
>>>> the
>>>> roof decking unless you live in a moderate climate. Because there is an
>>>> air
>>>> conditioner I am guessing you will want to insulate against heat on the
>>>> roof
>>>> from heating that space, either way you will need to maintain air
>>>> circulation under the roof decking. You can leave the insulation over
>>>> the
>>>> ceiling for it's sound properties and if you are just using the space
>>>> for
>>>> storage then it won't matter much.
>

Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas

2006-08-08 Thread R & S Enterprises
A couple of thoughts on this.  I have used 4 x 8 sheets in my daughters
attic for storage. I rip them into 2 x 8 pieces which fit up most holes or
you need to enlargge the hole to this size or you will not be able to get
much of anything up there.  In my garage I have made a hinged access door in
the gable end outside to be able to get things in the attic.  The sheet good
I use is 1/2 or 15/32 chipboard roof sheathing screwed dowm with 1 1/4 inch
drywall screws if you are afraid of jiggling the ceiling or 6 penney common
nails will work.  These sheets are lain at right angles to the joists.  I
put the smooth side up for easier sliding of cardboard boxes.
Ron
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] home remodeling ideas


> I'm in the same situation as I find that the insolation in my attic must
> be under done.
> I thought of 2x 8 ft halves of ply but crossing that 20x 14 ft above the
> livingroom was nearly doomed to crack plaster while I lay out bats of
> insolation.
> How do we cover this? for material and personal safety?
>
>
> On Sun, 6 Aug 2006, Shawn Keen wrote:
>
> > Okay, I had another look.
> >
> >> What do they have for a floor up there now?
> > a board that's probably about 3 foot wide and 8 feet long.  that's a
> > guestament.
> > the beams up there are  2 by 8.
> > Only the space just beyond the ladder and too the air conditioning unit
is
> > covered right now.
> >>
> >> Generally you wouldn't be able to get sheets of plywood up through the
> >> trap
> >> door so you will need to use plank construction. One trouble though is
> >> nailing, the joists are probably only 2 by 4 and not rigid enough,
> >> hammering
> >> and moving about particularly over wider spans like a living room will
> >> probably cause movement and cracks in the ceiling plaster or screws or
> >> nails
> >> to pop.
> >
> > Just guessing but I think the beams up there are about 3 feet apart. I
> > didn't look at all of them but the ones around the opening were.
> >
> >>
> >> You could screw or use a power nailer.
> >
> > Oh for-sure, . grin screws all the way.
> >
> >
> > Guess I'll be making a trip to home depot next weekend.  I just want to
get
> > a surface to walk on in place then I can tackle the rest of it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To listen to the show archives go to link
> > http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
> > or
> > ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/
> >
> > The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
> > http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday
> >
> > The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is.
> > http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml
> >
> > Visit The New Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From
Various List Members At The Following Address:
> > http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
> > Visit the new archives page at the following address
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/
> > For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man
list just send a blank message to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> To listen to the show archives go to link
>  http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
> or
> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/
>
> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday
>
> The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is.
> http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml
>
> Visit The New Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From
Various List Members At The Following Address:
> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
> Visit the new archives page at the following address
> http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/
> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man
list just send a blank message to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: 8/5/06
>
>


To listen to the show archives go to link
 http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
or
ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/

The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturd