Re: Corrupt and inefficient government (was FDB)
On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 7:07 PM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The parties are > now divided on peripheral issues like gay marriage and abortion which I agree. When it comes to the big spending issues, both parties vote the same way. Look at 3 of the most costly issues to be voted on in the last 8 years: Iraq, prescription drug bill, financial bailout bill. The majorities of both parties voted for all of them. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrupt and inefficient government (was FDB)
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 1:24 AM, Dave Land <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The inbound party is the one that seems to believe that a well-run > government represents the collective will, wealth and power of the > people of the nation. Some of the people, anyway. Especially those prone to believe campaign promises about how we can get something for nothing and those having a tendency to hero-worship politicians who will tell people whatever they want to hear. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrupt and inefficient government (was FDB)
On Nov 10, 2008, at 12:19 AM, Andrew Crystall wrote: > On 10 Nov 2008 at 3:07, William T Goodall wrote: > >> On 9 Nov 2008, at 23:04, Jon Louis Mann wrote: >>> >>> part of the reason government sometimes makes bad decisions is >>> because it attracts corrupt people, easily influenced by greedy, >>> unscrupulous lobbyists. >> >> The American system was designed to have congress, senate, president >> and supreme court neutralise each other so that it's quite hard to >> corrupt. With the political consensus in the USA now so narrow >> (republicans and democrats are much closer than opposition parties in >> other western democracies) that's not working so well. The parties >> are > > Wait, what's that? Oh, it's me making a rude sound. They're further > apart in fundermental positions that Labour and Conservative. > > The countries which tend to have actually different parties are those > with coalition government systems. A Liverpool-born, naturalized US citizen friend of mine notes that in the US system, despite the fact that we talk about electing a person or persons (Obiden v McPalin), we're really electing their entire party to the administrative branch, along with whatever judicial appointments may come up during their 4- or 8-year presidency. With a Democratic administration, Senate and House replacing a Republican administration, Senate and House, we'll get to see just how different they may be. As to the two parties being nearly identical, I stopped listening to that old out-of-tune song a long time ago. The outbound party is the one that thinks that there's not a damn thing that government can do well (except, apparently, invade countries that were no threat to us, trample all over the constitution, authorize the use of torture and generally reduce the USA to an international pariah). Evidently, the people decided that it's not the _government_ that can't do right, it was _that particular_ government. The inbound party is the one that seems to believe that a well-run government represents the collective will, wealth and power of the people of the nation. Proof that it can be well-run by that party exists in the form of the budgetary surplus that existed at the end of the supposedly tax-and- spend Clinton administration. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrupt and inefficient government (was FDB)
On 10 Nov 2008 at 3:07, William T Goodall wrote: > > On 9 Nov 2008, at 23:04, Jon Louis Mann wrote: > > > > part of the reason government sometimes makes bad decisions is > > because it attracts corrupt people, easily influenced by greedy, > > unscrupulous lobbyists. > > The American system was designed to have congress, senate, president > and supreme court neutralise each other so that it's quite hard to > corrupt. With the political consensus in the USA now so narrow > (republicans and democrats are much closer than opposition parties in > other western democracies) that's not working so well. The parties are Wait, what's that? Oh, it's me making a rude sound. They're further apart in fundermental positions that Labour and Conservative. The countries which tend to have actually different parties are those with coalition government systems. AndrewC ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrupt and inefficient government (was FDB)
On 9 Nov 2008, at 23:04, Jon Louis Mann wrote: > > part of the reason government sometimes makes bad decisions is > because it attracts corrupt people, easily influenced by greedy, > unscrupulous lobbyists. The American system was designed to have congress, senate, president and supreme court neutralise each other so that it's quite hard to corrupt. With the political consensus in the USA now so narrow (republicans and democrats are much closer than opposition parties in other western democracies) that's not working so well. The parties are now divided on peripheral issues like gay marriage and abortion which results in direct issue voting which is not what the system was designed to cope with. One party Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." ~Voltaire. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Corrupt and inefficient government (was FDB)
> > There would be less government > waste for certain, but I suspect there would > > would be a commensurate increase in private > sector waste. > No doubt that is true, if we define waste as > not doing with other people's money what Wayne > wants. But if we talk about what each person > thinks should be done with their own money, > then it is another story. i suspect most people are apathetic, and those who make the effort to be informed about how the government disburses our tax revenues, often feel powerless to do anything about it. it takes something like economic collapse to elect someone who will better represent the middle class, but there are still powerful forces to create obstacles to prevent genuine reform. > > The only reason the government makes > bad decisions is because it is made up > > of people. part of the reason government sometimes makes bad decisions is because it attracts corrupt people, easily influenced by greedy, unscrupulous lobbyists. > > The private sector is made up of people too. some of whom are in bed with greedy, unscrupulous lobbyists, and others of that ilk. > > The private sector is made up of MORE people, and more > involved people, both of which tend to result in better decisions. substantiate please; if you can... jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
