Re: [cayugabirds-l] dark red-tailed hawk

[Rbakelaar]

The photos seem to demonstrate barring on the primaries, more so than I would 
expect on even a dark phase Broad-wing.  The molted out feather allows this 
characteristic to be seen somewhat well.  This bird's proportions seem to weigh 
against B-wing too.  The wings seem long and narrow, with only a slight bulge 
of the secondaries.  Tail seems long as we'll.  The photos also seem to show a 
black body.

Any of our resident experts care to weigh in?

Ryan.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 15, 2014, at 10:57 PM, Dave Nutter  wrote:
> 
> I couldn't reconcile the red tail of photo 1 with the black and white stripes 
> of photo 3, even though I have seen various effects of looking through 
> backlit feathers. The reason I didn't say Red-shouldered Hawk is that the 
> white tail-band appeared too wide to me (but this may be a focus issue, or 
> may judgement may be wrong), and the white mark in the otherwise even-colored 
> primaries appears to me due to a molted missing feather on each side, not a 
> "window" across the primaries. The reason I said "the only species of Buteo 
> around here" is that Zone-tailed Hawk is way out of range, and also is less 
> familiar to me. My guess was that Zone-tailed would not look so pale on the 
> flight feathers of the wings. I am open to correction on all points. 
> --Dave Nutter
> 
>> On Jun 15, 2014, at 08:28 PM, Sandy Podulka  wrote:
>> 
>> As you know, I'm really just a beginner at hawks.. but...  What about a 
>> Red-shouldered Hawk?  It's got the white windows and the banded tail. The 
>> reddish appearance of the tail could just be sunlight shining through 
>> brownish feathers, which can really play tricks on the eye. It seems like 
>> the distribution of light and dark on the underside of the wings matches 
>> that of Red-shouldered Hawk.
>> 
>> Sandy
>> 
>> At 08:09 PM 6/15/2014, Ann Mitchell wrote:
>>> I agree with Dave regarding a Broad-winged Hawk. Ann Mitchell
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jun 15, 2014, at 5:28 PM, Dave Nutter  wrote:
 
 I am NOT an authority on raptors, but that has never stopped me from 
 commenting before, so here's my guess: 
 
 I think the first blurry photo looks like a dark type of Red-tailed Hawk 
 more typically found out west. 
 
 I think the second and third photos are of a different bird with a feather 
 missing from primaries on each side. The only species of Buteo around here 
 with such a wide bold white stripe in the tail is Broad-winged Hawk, which 
 also shows a black outline to the ends of the flight feathers on the 
 entire wing, as seen in the third photo. However, dark-type Broad-winged 
 Hawks are rare, and the wing shape looks too long and rounded to me, so 
 I'm not at all confident. I hope someone who really knows what they are 
 talking about has a look at your photos and sets me straight.
 
>> --Dave
>> Nutter
>> 
>>> On Jun 15, 2014, at 03:23 PM, Ray Zimmerman  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Today around 12:30pm as I stepped outside (in Eastern Heights, Ithaca) the 
>>> call of red-tailed hawk caught my attention and I quickly spotted it 
>>> circling overhead. As I grabbed my binoculars, I soon realized that it was 
>>> a very unusual red-tail (at least very different from the one’s I’m 
>>> used to seeing). As you can see from very bad photos linked below, it was 
>>> quit dark below.
>>> 
>>> So is this a western bird, or is this just a variation I haven’t seen 
>>> around here before?
>>> 
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t7pw5hoifjpzeey/AABcyimp4JipHTo8DwZc0r8-a 
>>> 
>>> — Ray
>>> 
>>> --
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Re: [cayugabirds-l] dark red-tailed hawk

[Dave Nutter]

I couldn't reconcile the red tail of photo 1 with the black and white stripes 
of photo 3, even though I have seen various effects of looking through backlit 
feathers. The reason I didn't say Red-shouldered Hawk is that the white 
tail-band appeared too wide to me (but this may be a focus issue, or may 
judgement may be wrong), and the white mark in the otherwise even-colored 
primaries appears to me due to a molted missing feather on each side, not a 
"window" across the primaries. The reason I said "the only species of Buteo 
around here" is that Zone-tailed Hawk is way out of range, and also is less 
familiar to me. My guess was that Zone-tailed would not look so pale on the 
flight feathers of the wings. I am open to correction on all points.

--Dave Nutter


On Jun 15, 2014, at 08:28 PM, Sandy Podulka  wrote:

> As you know, I'm really just a beginner at hawks.. but...  What about a 
> Red-shouldered Hawk?  It's got the white windows and the banded tail. The 
> reddish appearance of the tail could just be sunlight shining through 
> brownish feathers, which can really play tricks on the eye. It seems like the 
> distribution of light and dark on the underside of the wings matches that of 
> Red-shouldered Hawk.
>
> Sandy
>
> At 08:09 PM 6/15/2014, Ann Mitchell wrote:
>> I agree with Dave regarding a Broad-winged Hawk. Ann Mitchell
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 15, 2014, at 5:28 PM, Dave Nutter  wrote:
>>
>>> I am NOT an authority on raptors, but that has never stopped me from 
>>> commenting before, so here's my guess:
>>>
>>> I think the first blurry photo looks like a dark type of Red-tailed Hawk 
>>> more typically found out west.
>>>
>>> I think the second and third photos are of a different bird with a feather 
>>> missing from primaries on each side. The only species of Buteo around here 
>>> with such a wide bold white stripe in the tail is Broad-winged Hawk, which 
>>> also shows a black outline to the ends of the flight feathers on the entire 
>>> wing, as seen in the third photo. However, dark-type Broad-winged Hawks are 
>>> rare, and the wing shape looks too long and rounded to me, so I'm not at 
>>> all confident. I hope someone who really knows what they are talking about 
>>> has a look at your photos and sets me straight.
>>>
> --Dave
> Nutter
>
> On Jun 15, 2014, at 03:23 PM, Ray Zimmerman  wrote:
>
>> Today around 12:30pm as I stepped outside (in Eastern Heights, Ithaca) the 
>> call of red-tailed hawk caught my attention and I quickly spotted it 
>> circling overhead. As I grabbed my binoculars, I soon realized that it was a 
>> very unusual red-tail (at least very different from the one’s I’m used 
>> to seeing). As you can see from very bad photos linked below, it was quit 
>> dark below.
>>
>> So is this a western bird, or is this just a variation I haven’t seen 
>> around here before?
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t7pw5hoifjpzeey/AABcyimp4JipHTo8DwZc0r8-a
>>
>> — Ray
>>
>> --
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[cayugabirds-l] Additoins: RE: Spencer Marsh and Danby Area

[Meena Madhav Haribal]

Also a raven croaked all the time I was there!

Meena Haribal
Ithaca NY 14850
42.429007,-76.47111
http://haribal.org/
http://meenaharibal.blogspot.com/



From: bounce-116267989-3493...@list.cornell.edu 
 on behalf of Meena Madhav Haribal 

Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 2:51 PM
To: CAYUGABIRDS-L
Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Spencer Marsh and Danby Area




Hello all,

I was not going to bird or ode as I want to finish my garden work, but could 
not resist this beautiful weather. So I headed to my favorite Spencer Marsh to 
look for Northern Bluets. I was not disappointed as I saw quite a few of those. 
Plus I believe I saw an Emerald Spreadwing, which is new to this location for 
me.



I came across the same birds which I see every year.

The birds were Prairie Warblers, Yellow Warblers (several of them counter 
singing, one of them was doing Chestnut-sided's secondary like call and I 
though t so too but when I saw I was surprised), a Hooded Warbler, I think I 
also heard a Magnolia coming from the Gravel pit company's land, 
Chestnut-sided, Ovenbirds and Common Yellowthroats.  A Black-billed Cuckoo flew 
over me at a very low height and landed on a tree in a plain view. Least 
Flycatchers and Willow Flycatchers continuously called. A Virginia Rail called 
a couple of times. There were two calls which I could not for sure identify, 
one I think was a nesting Green Heron and I think I have heard the same call 
here in the past too, but I need to confirm. Second call stumped me, I have 
recorded them on my cell phone when I get time I will review and post. I just 
listened it sounds like a Catbird with low energy. I also saw a Brown Thrasher 
twice, once it was on the road and looking for something, but it was panting in 
the hot sun, with its bill open.

Then I stopped at a grocery/gas line store near the junction of Rt 13 and I saw 
a Yellow-billed Cuckoo land in one of the trees in the parking lot. By the way 
I bought something which was written on the cover as Garlic Bread but inside it 
was potato chips and picture outside was very different from contents inside, 
had no choice had to eat them. I am going to complain to Lays for fooling me!

Then as usual I stopped at Lick Brook parking lot to look for Riffle 
Snaketails, I did find one on the rock and that was it.  But I did find some 
nice birds and butterflies here. I heard a singing Orchard Oriole near the 
woods along railway crossings. I have heard one in the past years too here. 
Also there were Redstarts, Warbling, Yellow-throated and Red-eyed Vireos, 
Blue-grey Gnatcatcher, Baltimore Orioles and many Common Yellowthroats, which 
are regulars here every year.



Now back to work I guess!



Cheers

Meena

PS: Has anyone birded Northern Honshu or Hokkaido in summer? If so where did 
you go? Please email me, I am also interested in seeing Rock Ptarmigans there 
in the alps. Any good suggestion is welcome in next two days.





Meena Haribal
Ithaca NY 14850
42.429007,-76.47111
http://haribal.org/
http://meenaharibal.blogspot.com/


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[cayugabirds-l] Oriole nestling observations

[Nancy Cusumano]

An oriole couple built one of their hanging nests right over our house. It
was a joy watching her knit it out of grass and hair and such, and watching
the beautiful male sing to her while doing so,

Babies have hatched -there are ate least 4, maybe 5 in there, a tight fit.
I set up my scope today to watch the action. They are about a week old now
I would guess, all heads come out of the nest for insects, one obviously
larger and older than the others. The male brings the food - caterpillars
or other insects. I watched him trying to feed what looked like a tomato
horn worm to his young. The thing was so huge none of them could eat it.
The dad wound up breaking it up into pieces so they could eat it.
The mom spends time grooming the nestlings - removing bugs maybe, and
wiping them on her breast, or else wiping oils from her breast onto them.
She dives head first into the nest cup, not sure what she's doing down
there - cleaning up after them? Or?
All that shows when she does this are the tips of her wings, pointed
sky-ward, and her tail.

It's so much fun watching these behaviors you never get to see. Others are
welcome if you want to watch, but I bet they will be fledging in a week or
so.

Nancy Cusumano
Duboise Road (off rt 89)



Cayuga Dog Rescue has saved more than 460 dogs since 2005.
Learn more at cayugadogrescue.org

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Re: [cayugabirds-l] dark red-tailed hawk

[Ann Mitchell]

I agree with Dave regarding a Broad-winged Hawk. Ann Mitchell

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 15, 2014, at 5:28 PM, Dave Nutter  wrote:
> 
> I am NOT an authority on raptors, but that has never stopped me from 
> commenting before, so here's my guess: 
> 
> I think the first blurry photo looks like a dark type of Red-tailed Hawk more 
> typically found out west. 
> 
> I think the second and third photos are of a different bird with a feather 
> missing from primaries on each side. The only species of Buteo around here 
> with such a wide bold white stripe in the tail is Broad-winged Hawk, which 
> also shows a black outline to the ends of the flight feathers on the entire 
> wing, as seen in the third photo. However, dark-type Broad-winged Hawks are 
> rare, and the wing shape looks too long and rounded to me, so I'm not at all 
> confident. I hope someone who really knows what they are talking about has a 
> look at your photos and sets me straight.
> --Dave Nutter
> 
>> On Jun 15, 2014, at 03:23 PM, Ray Zimmerman  wrote:
>> 
>> Today around 12:30pm as I stepped outside (in Eastern Heights, Ithaca) the 
>> call of red-tailed hawk caught my attention and I quickly spotted it 
>> circling overhead. As I grabbed my binoculars, I soon realized that it was a 
>> very unusual red-tail (at least very different from the one’s I’m used to 
>> seeing). As you can see from very bad photos linked below, it was quit dark 
>> below.
>> 
>> So is this a western bird, or is this just a variation I haven’t seen around 
>> here before?
>> 
>>  https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t7pw5hoifjpzeey/AABcyimp4JipHTo8DwZc0r8-a
>> 
>> — Ray
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
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Re: [cayugabirds-l] dark red-tailed hawk

[Ryan Bakelaar]

Looks like a Zone-tailed Hawk.  The first photo seems to show some reddish, but 
the third seems to show a typical Z-t pattern.  There have been records in MA 
and the maritime a in Canada recently.

Yet another would-be basin bird that this out-of-basin will miss.

Ryan Bakelaar 


> On Jun 15, 2014, at 3:23 PM, Ray Zimmerman  wrote:> > Today 
> around 12:30pm as I stepped outside (in Eastern Heights, Ithaca) the call of 
> red-tailed hawk caught my attention and I quickly spotted it circling 
> overhead. As I grabbed my binoculars, I soon realized that it was a very 
> unusual red-tail (at least very different from the one’s I’m used to seeing). 
> As you can see from very bad photos linked below, it was quit dark below.> > 
> So is this a western bird, or is this just a variation I haven’t seen around 
> here before?> >   
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t7pw5hoifjpzeey/AABcyimp4JipHTo8DwZc0r8-a> > — 
> Ray> > > --> > Cayugabirds-L List Info:> 
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Re: [cayugabirds-l] still hearing "Old Sam Peabody"

[Geo Kloppel]

Another place to find breeding White-throated Sparrows is along Miller Creek in 
the Danby State Forest.

-Geo Kloppel

On Jun 15, 2014, at 2:36 PM, Dave Nutter  wrote:

> Uncommon, and typically in the higher forested areas, such as Hammond Hill, 
> Summer Hill, & Shindagin Hollow.
> --Dave Nutter
> 
> On Jun 15, 2014, at 01:40 PM, David Ruppert  wrote:
> 
>> We’ve been hearing White-throated Sparrow song since sometime in May when 
>> they were migrating through.  We are still hearing this song, and it’s 
>> always coming from the same area, a thicket along Cascadilla Creek in Ellis 
>> Hollow.   I assume there’s a nesting pair.  How unusual is it for 
>> White-throated Sparrows to nest in this area?
>> 
>> David Ruppert
>> 
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Re: [cayugabirds-l] dark red-tailed hawk

[Dave Nutter]

I am NOT an authority on raptors, but that has never stopped me from commenting 
before, so here's my guess:

I think the first blurry photo looks like a dark type of Red-tailed Hawk more 
typically found out west.

I think the second and third photos are of a different bird with a feather 
missing from primaries on each side. The only species of Buteo around here with 
such a wide bold white stripe in the tail is Broad-winged Hawk, which also 
shows a black outline to the ends of the flight feathers on the entire wing, as 
seen in the third photo. However, dark-type Broad-winged Hawks are rare, and 
the wing shape looks too long and rounded to me, so I'm not at all confident. I 
hope someone who really knows what they are talking about has a look at your 
photos and sets me straight.

--Dave Nutter


On Jun 15, 2014, at 03:23 PM, Ray Zimmerman  wrote:

> Today around 12:30pm as I stepped outside (in Eastern Heights, Ithaca) the 
> call of red-tailed hawk caught my attention and I quickly spotted it circling 
> overhead. As I grabbed my binoculars, I soon realized that it was a very 
> unusual red-tail (at least very different from the one’s I’m used to seeing). 
> As you can see from very bad photos linked below, it was quit dark below.
>
> So is this a western bird, or is this just a variation I haven’t seen around 
> here before?
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t7pw5hoifjpzeey/AABcyimp4JipHTo8DwZc0r8-a
>
> — Ray
>
>
> --
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[cayugabirds-l] Newtown Battlefield SP

[Geo Kloppel]

During a short visit to the Newtown Battlefield State Park yesterday for 
unrelated purposes, I noticed some birds in the vicinity of the Sullivan 
Monument, including Brown Thrasher, Great-crested Flycatcher, and 
Yellow-throated Vireo.

-Geo Kloppel
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[cayugabirds-l] dark red-tailed hawk

[Ray Zimmerman]

Today around 12:30pm as I stepped outside (in Eastern Heights, Ithaca) the call 
of red-tailed hawk caught my attention and I quickly spotted it circling 
overhead. As I grabbed my binoculars, I soon realized that it was a very 
unusual red-tail (at least very different from the one’s I’m used to seeing). 
As you can see from very bad photos linked below, it was quit dark below.

So is this a western bird, or is this just a variation I haven’t seen around 
here before?

   https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t7pw5hoifjpzeey/AABcyimp4JipHTo8DwZc0r8-a

— Ray


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[cayugabirds-l] Spencer Marsh and Danby Area

[Meena Madhav Haribal]

Hello all,

I was not going to bird or ode as I want to finish my garden work, but could 
not resist this beautiful weather. So I headed to my favorite Spencer Marsh to 
look for Northern Bluets. I was not disappointed as I saw quite a few of those. 
Plus I believe I saw an Emerald Spreadwing, which is new to this location for 
me.



I came across the same birds which I see every year.

The birds were Prairie Warblers, Yellow Warblers (several of them counter 
singing, one of them was doing Chestnut-sided's secondary like call and I 
though t so too but when I saw I was surprised), a Hooded Warbler, I think I 
also heard a Magnolia coming from the Gravel pit company's land, 
Chestnut-sided, Ovenbirds and Common Yellowthroats.  A Black-billed Cuckoo flew 
over me at a very low height and landed on a tree in a plain view. Least 
Flycatchers and Willow Flycatchers continuously called. A Virginia Rail called 
a couple of times. There were two calls which I could not for sure identify, 
one I think was a nesting Green Heron and I think I have heard the same call 
here in the past too, but I need to confirm. Second call stumped me, I have 
recorded them on my cell phone when I get time I will review and post. I just 
listened it sounds like a Catbird with low energy. I also saw a Brown Thrasher 
twice, once it was on the road and looking for something, but it was panting in 
the hot sun, with its bill open.

Then I stopped at a grocery/gas line store near the junction of Rt 13 and I saw 
a Yellow-billed Cuckoo land in one of the trees in the parking lot. By the way 
I bought something which was written on the cover as Garlic Bread but inside it 
was potato chips and picture outside was very different from contents inside, 
had no choice had to eat them. I am going to complain to Lays for fooling me!

Then as usual I stopped at Lick Brook parking lot to look for Riffle 
Snaketails, I did find one on the rock and that was it.  But I did find some 
nice birds and butterflies here. I heard a singing Orchard Oriole near the 
woods along railway crossings. I have heard one in the past years too here. 
Also there were Redstarts, Warbling, Yellow-throated and Red-eyed Vireos, 
Blue-grey Gnatcatcher, Baltimore Orioles and many Common Yellowthroats, which 
are regulars here every year.



Now back to work I guess!



Cheers

Meena

PS: Has anyone birded Northern Honshu or Hokkaido in summer? If so where did 
you go? Please email me, I am also interested in seeing Rock Ptarmigans there 
in the alps. Any good suggestion is welcome in next two days.





Meena Haribal
Ithaca NY 14850
42.429007,-76.47111
http://haribal.org/
http://meenaharibal.blogspot.com/



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Re: [cayugabirds-l] still hearing "Old Sam Peabody"

[Dave Nutter]

Uncommon, and typically in the higher forested areas, such as Hammond Hill, 
Summer Hill, & Shindagin Hollow.

--Dave Nutter


On Jun 15, 2014, at 01:40 PM, David Ruppert  wrote:

> We’ve been hearing White-throated Sparrow song since sometime in May when 
> they were migrating through.  We are still hearing this song, and it’s always 
> coming from the same area, a thicket along Cascadilla Creek in Ellis Hollow.  
>  I assume there’s a nesting pair.  How unusual is it for White-throated 
> Sparrows to nest in this area?
>
> David Ruppert
>
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[cayugabirds-l] still hearing "Old Sam Peabody"

[David Ruppert]

We've been hearing White-throated Sparrow song since sometime in May when they 
were migrating through.  We are still hearing this song, and it's always coming 
from the same area, a thicket along Cascadilla Creek in Ellis Hollow.   I 
assume there's a nesting pair.  How unusual is it for White-throated Sparrows 
to nest in this area?

David Ruppert


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[cayugabirds-l] Red-shouldered Hawk flyover - Lansing

[Scott Haber]

A seemingly out-of-place adult RED-SHOULDERED HAWK just flew over our patio
off Warren Rd. in Lansing, heading north in the direction of the Bomax Rd.
fields.

I'm not too up to date on this species's breeding status in the basin, but
I can't recall any nearby nesting sites.

-Scott

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RE: [cayugabirds-l] Destructiveness of chipmunks

[Meena Madhav Haribal]

Talking about Chjpmunks, recently,  I also  had similar experience with the 
Robins, Robins had fledglings in my yard and the chipmunk was trying to go 
about its business, but the robin gave it a hard time. I am glad it did.



Also, recently I had a field trip to Six Miles Creek walk and found many 
species of birds missing. Especially Wood Thrushes, ovenbirds and Veery (in 
numbers) as compared to the previous years. I feel the population has reduced 
to a great extent.  But we did see lots and lots of Chipmunks running around 
everywhere.  So I was wondering if those were the reasons for reduced bird 
populations:-(



Meena

PS: My yard is full of visiting fledglings. Yesterday I had a Phoebe, Chickadee 
and Tufted Titmouse families visiting. They were noisy, chickadee family looked 
so cute, five of them trying to harass their parents! Plus, Blue Jays also came 
with their young when others dispersed.





Meena Haribal
Ithaca NY 14850
42.429007,-76.47111
http://haribal.org/
http://meenaharibal.blogspot.com/



From: bounce-116244366-3493...@list.cornell.edu 
 on behalf of John and Fritzie 
Blizzard 
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2014 8:49 PM
To: Melissa Groo; CAYUGABIRDS-L
Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Destructiveness of chipmunks

Somewhere, a few yrs. back, I read that  chipmunks are more destructive to 
birds than are cats.

Really, where can the exact proof be of such statistics? Both are exceedingly 
destructive. Add in red & gray squirrels, racoons, skunks, possums, snakes & 
turtles as well as other birds. Other sections of the country probably have 
other types of nest raiders.

Right here, I have house sparrows amongst other animals, including tame & feral 
cats. We have a home-made bird trap for our boxes but while it works, many 
birders don't have boxes that can easily be opened, if all, in order to catch 
the invader in a plastic bag  or to clean debris from the boxes. Tree 
swallows make a horrendous mess in their boxes.

Unfortunately, once an invader finds a nest, it often will return until its 
prey is all destroyed. Yes, sparrows catch insects, too, but I dare say, the 
male sparrow here has killed at least 30 nestlings & mothers, to say nothing of 
the number of blue bird & tree swallow eggs destroyed. I consider the insects 
they catch as small potatoes compared to the many "good" birds lost & the 
insects they & their offspring would have destroyed. This male sparrow doesn't 
even appear to have a mate! In late April, nearly every nest box had a male 
sparrow sitting in a hole to keep bluebirds & tree swallows away.

Two wks. ago, I put 3 plastic bird-size eggs in a swallow/bluebird box. Within 
20 min., the male sparrow had carried 2 of them20' away & dropped them. I 
replaced the plastic eggs with 4 marbles. The sparrow couldn't pick them up or 
peck them open, so he then repeatedly tried to cover them with the grass 
nesting material I had put in the box as "starter" nests. The next day I 
watched as the male, after covering the marbles, proceeded to take pieces of 
grass away, apparently trying to empty the box of the nesting material ... the 
old idea,"if I can't have it, neither can anyone else."

Melissa, many of these "visuals" which you, Meena, Diana Whiting, John & Sue 
Gregoire & many others find, are intensely educational & enlightening both to 
you & to others with whom you share your sightings. We're all gaining in this 
educational process & thank you for the part you play.

FritzieGas in Union 
Springs is $3.52.9.


On 6/14/2014 5:17 PM, Melissa Groo wrote:

 A pair of Robins were frantically alarm-calling and repeatedly flying at a 
chipmunk sitting on a branch near their nest, and in the midst of eating one of 
their nestlings.

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[cayugabirds-l] Acadian Flycatcher still

[Geo Kloppel]

This morning at 6:30 it was just 50 degrees F. in Michigan Hollow, but an 
Acadian Flycatcher was still singing in the usual spot (42.29919N 76.48335W). 
The road just there is about 16' above the stream, so the bird is often below 
you.

-Geo Kloppel
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