[cctalk] SCAMP at 61 (IBM Scientific Computer And Modular Processor) was Re: SCAMP at 50 (IBM 5100)
Dennis said > > Wait! There is a SCAMP other than Burroughs' Single Chip A-Series=20 > > Mainframe Processor. > > And then there's the SC/MP. Here's a relic from IBM's first SCAMP, a large ring binder (16 rings!) from Hursley, early 1960s. Unfortunately no SCAMP diagrams inside but to this day it still contains drawings and paintings I did as a kid :) http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/IBM_SCAMP_folder_Hursley_UK_1962.png Steve.
[cctalk] Re: Old Professional/350 software, any of this out there
On 7/29/2023 12:36 PM, emanuel stiebler wrote: On 2023-07-29 13:57, Bjoren Davis via cctalk wrote: I never made a push to publish it because by the time I got to it the parts (Cypress CY62167G-45ZXI SRAM and ATF1504AS-10AU100 CPLD) had become unobtainable. The SRAM can still be find, but the CPLD? Any chance to replace it with something newer? Possibly. This was only the 2nd PCB I ever designed, so I was very conservative and used a CPLD. Now that the logic has been proven, I'm sure the board could be reworked using just 5V-compatible flip-flops, discrete logic, and a latch. As far as using the board as it is: I think the only other possible CPLD that would work would be the 25 ns version ATF1504ASL-25AU100. I think that's still plenty fast enough, but it seems to be just as hard to get as the original. Maybe things have changed, but right now there are only 3 of these boards. I have 2 and I think I sent the 3rd to you, Paul. Any chance you like to have a look at it again? Sure, I guess. As I mentioned I think the best thing would be to rework it with discrete logic so as to really reduce the susceptibility to future shortages. Even if it increases BOM and assembly costs. The problem with reworking the board with a different CPLD is that it needs to be a 5V-compatible CPLD, and it needs to be able to buffer half of the address lines (9 in and 20 out). That means it needs a high pin count. These two criteria quickly narrow the possibilities down to almost nothing. Add to that the wanting a reasonable price and availability for a few years and it really does go to nothing.. Digikey claims that the ATF1504AS-10AU100 is still an Active product and expects new product in April, 2024. Maybe it just makes sense to wait?
[cctalk] Re: Old Professional/350 software, any of this out there
On 2023-07-29 13:57, Bjoren Davis via cctalk wrote: Paul, A couple of years ago I did design and build a new daughterboard with modern SRAM that supports up to 2 MiB of RAM on the PC/380 and up to 512 KiB on the PC/350. https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/eBNkBw8x Cool! It even works. ;-) I never made a push to publish it because by the time I got to it the parts (Cypress CY62167G-45ZXI SRAM and ATF1504AS-10AU100 CPLD) had become unobtainable. The SRAM can still be find, but the CPLD? Any chance to replace it with something newer? Maybe things have changed, but right now there are only 3 of these boards. I have 2 and I think I sent the 3rd to you, Paul. Any chance you like to have a look at it again?
[cctalk] Re: Old Professional/350 software, any of this out there
I'll have to look that pro380 technical book up, I've always referred to my XT100 documents but those were pre-release for the Pro/350. Now for the real 50k question: Does the AVO socket next to it take the same board format for the 8 bit color video memory? Anyone have a picture of the AVO board? It's the same size and the board fits. Maybe it had more space for 256kb of memory chips for video RAM? C On 7/29/2023 1:36 PM, Paul Koning wrote: On Jul 29, 2023, at 12:45 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Answering my own question: Yes it does work. My Pro/380 now sees 320kw of memory instead of 256kw. Now to buy some sockets and upgrade these boards to 256kw each. One can go in the Pro/350 and the other plus the memory boards should take my Pro/380 to almost 1kw. I wonder if the CTI memory boards can be upgraded from 64k chips to 256k chips. Probably would require reprogramming the ROM as well on the board. Hm. The Pro Technical Manual (on Bitsavers) answers a bunch of these questions. If I remember right, the 380 will accept 350 memory daugher cards but also larger-capacity cards (bigger chips) that are 380 only. Also, the wiring for the board allows for larger memories than what DEC actually built; the details are in the CPU/Motherboard chapter of the manual. And/or in the schematics. I've thought about building such a daughtercard, I think the best case allows close to full 4 MB worth of memory. paul
[cctalk] Re: Old Professional/350 software, any of this out there
On 2023-07-29 13:36, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: The Pro Technical Manual (on Bitsavers) answers a bunch of these questions. If I remember right, the 380 will accept 350 memory daugher cards but also larger-capacity cards (bigger chips) that are 380 only. Also, the wiring for the board allows for larger memories than what DEC actually built; the details are in the CPU/Motherboard chapter of the manual. And/or in the schematics. I've thought about building such a daughtercard, I think the best case allows close to full 4 MB worth of memory. Seems that a 3 MB module could be built, giving a 3.5 MB total?
[cctalk] Re: Old Professional/350 software, any of this out there
Paul, A couple of years ago I did design and build a new daughterboard with modern SRAM that supports up to 2 MiB of RAM on the PC/380 and up to 512 KiB on the PC/350. https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/eBNkBw8x It even works. I never made a push to publish it because by the time I got to it the parts (Cypress CY62167G-45ZXI SRAM and ATF1504AS-10AU100 CPLD) had become unobtainable. Maybe things have changed, but right now there are only 3 of these boards. I have 2 and I think I sent the 3rd to you, Paul. --Bjoren On 7/29/2023 10:36 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Jul 29, 2023, at 12:45 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Answering my own question: Yes it does work. My Pro/380 now sees 320kw of memory instead of 256kw. Now to buy some sockets and upgrade these boards to 256kw each. One can go in the Pro/350 and the other plus the memory boards should take my Pro/380 to almost 1kw. I wonder if the CTI memory boards can be upgraded from 64k chips to 256k chips. Probably would require reprogramming the ROM as well on the board. Hm. The Pro Technical Manual (on Bitsavers) answers a bunch of these questions. If I remember right, the 380 will accept 350 memory daugher cards but also larger-capacity cards (bigger chips) that are 380 only. Also, the wiring for the board allows for larger memories than what DEC actually built; the details are in the CPU/Motherboard chapter of the manual. And/or in the schematics. I've thought about building such a daughtercard, I think the best case allows close to full 4 MB worth of memory. paul
[cctalk] Re: Old Professional/350 software, any of this out there
> On Jul 29, 2023, at 12:00 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk > wrote: > > Possible. I see that Xhomer includes a version of RT11, and when I looked at > that I saw that the .MAC files for the DZ and whatever the disk is (DY?) > drivers appear to be there. So it might not be impossible to write the > drivers in M+ based on that. > > Maybe. When I did a RSTS port for Pro I named the drivers after the names used elsewhere, either P/OS or (more likely) RT11. DZ is the floppy, DW the hard drive. DY would be the standard RT11 name for the RX02 driver, that's an entirely different beast. paul
[cctalk] Re: Old Professional/350 software, any of this out there
> On Jul 29, 2023, at 12:45 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk > wrote: > > Answering my own question: Yes it does work. My Pro/380 now sees 320kw of > memory instead of 256kw. > > Now to buy some sockets and upgrade these boards to 256kw each. One can go in > the Pro/350 and the other plus the memory boards should take my Pro/380 to > almost 1kw. > > I wonder if the CTI memory boards can be upgraded from 64k chips to 256k > chips. Probably would require reprogramming the ROM as well on the board. Hm. The Pro Technical Manual (on Bitsavers) answers a bunch of these questions. If I remember right, the 380 will accept 350 memory daugher cards but also larger-capacity cards (bigger chips) that are 380 only. Also, the wiring for the board allows for larger memories than what DEC actually built; the details are in the CPU/Motherboard chapter of the manual. And/or in the schematics. I've thought about building such a daughtercard, I think the best case allows close to full 4 MB worth of memory. paul
[cctalk] Re: Old Professional/350 software, any of this out there
Possible. I see that Xhomer includes a version of RT11, and when I looked at that I saw that the .MAC files for the DZ and whatever the disk is (DY?) drivers appear to be there. So it might not be impossible to write the drivers in M+ based on that. Maybe. On 7/29/2023 11:00 AM, Lee Gleason via cctalk wrote: Sounds like these may the long lost P/OS drivers. Contact Jörg Hoppe at RETROCMP - he's been scanning in a lot of DEC fiche of late. http://retrocmp.com/ -- Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultants lee.glea...@comcast.net
[cctalk] Re: Old Professional/350 software, any of this out there
Answering my own question: Yes it does work. My Pro/380 now sees 320kw of memory instead of 256kw. Now to buy some sockets and upgrade these boards to 256kw each. One can go in the Pro/350 and the other plus the memory boards should take my Pro/380 to almost 1kw. I wonder if the CTI memory boards can be upgraded from 64k chips to 256k chips. Probably would require reprogramming the ROM as well on the board. Hm. On 7/29/2023 12:01 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Meantime a question: The pro/350 has two memory daughter cards on the board. The Pro/380 appears to have a spot on the motherboard that takes the same size card. Can one use a Pro/350 internal memory board (not CTI) on the Pro/380 motherboard? Wondering before I plug this in On 7/29/2023 11:00 AM, Lee Gleason via cctalk wrote: Sounds like these may the long lost P/OS drivers. Contact Jörg Hoppe at RETROCMP - he's been scanning in a lot of DEC fiche of late. http://retrocmp.com/ -- Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultants lee.glea...@comcast.net
[cctalk] Re: Old Professional/350 software, any of this out there
Meantime a question: The pro/350 has two memory daughter cards on the board. The Pro/380 appears to have a spot on the motherboard that takes the same size card. Can one use a Pro/350 internal memory board (not CTI) on the Pro/380 motherboard? Wondering before I plug this in On 7/29/2023 11:00 AM, Lee Gleason via cctalk wrote: Sounds like these may the long lost P/OS drivers. Contact Jörg Hoppe at RETROCMP - he's been scanning in a lot of DEC fiche of late. http://retrocmp.com/ -- Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultants lee.glea...@comcast.net
[cctalk] Re: Old Professional/350 software, any of this out there
Sounds like these may the long lost P/OS drivers. Contact Jörg Hoppe at RETROCMP - he's been scanning in a lot of DEC fiche of late. http://retrocmp.com/ -- Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultants lee.glea...@comcast.net
[cctalk] Re: May need help buying computer in Houston - I’m in CA
Errr, I'm in Houston. What did you have in mind to get done locally on this deal? == Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultants lee.glea...@comcast.com
[cctalk] Well, SPSS for RSX is sorta up.
Copied all the files onto my Gotek, it's SO EASY to just turn a dial to select a disk! Anyway, loaded all the files, but when I try to run them it says it's missing PROF77 Common. My guess is that's the same block as F77OTS, but how does one load a common block with a different name? I forgot Directory DU0:[SPSS] 28-JUL-2023 18:06 ANVTSK.TSK;1 173. C 28-JUL-2023 18:01 NPTTSK.TSK;1 189. C 28-JUL-2023 18:02 SRVTSK.TSK;1 167. C 28-JUL-2023 18:02 SPSTSK.TSK;2 576. C 28-JUL-2023 17:59 TTSTSK.TSK;2 116. C 28-JUL-2023 18:00 SPSS.INS;2 3. C 28-JUL-2023 18:00 RPTTSK.TSK;1 190. C 28-JUL-2023 18:02 SPSS.TSK;1 136. C 28-JUL-2023 18:03 SCATSK.TSK;1 117. C 28-JUL-2023 18:03 SPSS.MNU;1 7. C 28-JUL-2023 18:03 SPSS.HLP;1 124. C 28-JUL-2023 18:03 PARTSK.TSK;1 130. C 28-JUL-2023 18:03 SPSS.MSG;1 18. C 28-JUL-2023 18:04 SPRTSK.TSK;1 98. C 28-JUL-2023 18:04 SPSS.ERR;1 69. C 28-JUL-2023 18:04 TEST1.LST;1 21. 28-JUL-2023 18:05 GSS77.SAV;1 123. 28-JUL-2023 18:05 TEST2.LST;1 27. 28-JUL-2023 18:05 TEST3.LST;1 21. 28-JUL-2023 18:05 TEST1.CMD;1 1. 28-JUL-2023 18:05 TEST2.CMD;1 2. 28-JUL-2023 18:05 TEST3.CMD;1 6. 28-JUL-2023 18:05 Total of 2314./2325. blocks in 22. files $ run spss INS -- Common block not loaded PROF77
