Re: cost of living estimates

[Maureen]

Housing in San Francisco is very expensive, but if you don't mind a
commute the outer areas are not so pricey.  I don't have a vehicle, I
use public transportation (or taxis when it rains).

No way is the cost of living roughly equivalent to Charlottesville.

On 3/29/06, S. Isaac Dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: Charlottesville VA
> To: San Francisco CA
> Income: $70k
>
> 1. roughly equivalent
> 2. 60% increase ($111k)
> 3. 80% increase ($125k)

~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:11:2977
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/11
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:11
Unsubscribe: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54

Re: Onsite vs. Offsite

[Jeffry Houser]

At 01:53 PM 3/29/2006, you wrote:
>Hello All:
>
>I'm curious as to why so many companies demand (note the use of the word
>demand versus require) that CF developers work onsite.

  I think Rob was on the right track when he said control.

  For hourly contractors, people want to know you really did take '20 hours 
to do X'.  Or, more specifically that you really were there for 20 hours 
doing something.

  It takes a bit of organization to pack things up into a 'module' that can 
be handed off [off-site] to someone who can take it and run with it.  Not 
all companies exhibit that organization.  They change their mind every 
fifteen minutes.  In that situation being on-site is a big benefit.

  I fight against on-site contracts if I can help it.  I've had many 100% 
telecommute projects where I've never met the client.  But, I've had just 
as many that require routine on-site visits for meetings.  I've had very 
few that require me to actually work on-site (although in the grand scheme 
of my business those have been bigger clients).

  I also find that the type of work that is outsourced is often different 
than the stuff done 'on-site'.

  Are you a consultant (on-site, often working for a single client at a 
time) or a small business (Off-site, often working multiple projects)


--
Jeffry Houser, Software Developer, Writer, Songwriter, Recording Engineer
AIM: Reboog711  | Phone: 1-203-379-0773
--
My Company: 
My Books: 
My Recording Studio: 
Connecticut Macromedia User Group: 
Now Blogging at   



~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:11:2976
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/11
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:11
Unsubscribe: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54

Re: cost of living estimates

[Larry C. Lyons]

The public transportation system is fairly good around here. In the
western part of Prince William county, there's a good commuter bus
system that drops riders off at the Metro. Along the I-95 corridor,
there are "slug" lines. Commuters can get rides from drivers looking
to take advantage of the High Occupancy - 3 lanes along I-95.

Maryland has similar systems with the commuter bus.

Another alternative are Virginia's VRE and Maryland's MARC commuter
trains. They are become more popular.

larry

On 3/29/06, S. Isaac Dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yep. If I move to DC-metro I expect I won't be driving anywhere. At
> least not daily.
>

--
Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment;
and he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your
opinion.

Edmond Burke

~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:11:2975
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/11
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:11
Unsubscribe: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54

Re: cost of living estimates

[Larry C. Lyons]

In the northern Virginia area, in anywhere from Fairfax through
Gainesville, you need to factor in at least an hour one way for
commute time. And even more if you have to take a commuter bus to the
Metro, or drive to the Metro.

I've turned down jobs that required me to commute. Unless the company
lets me work from home at least 3 days a week I won't consider it if
there's a substantial commute involved.

At least my current job is only about a mile from where I live. So no commute.

larry

On 3/29/06, Aaron Rouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think ugly commutes should be factored in.  You get the added expense of
> maintaining a vehicle more so it lasts day to day.  Plus the huge added
> aggravation of dealing with the commute.  For the past 5-6 years I have been
> commuting an insane amount and primarily because the money was just so
> good.  I am getting to the point of that not even being a good enough reason
> though.
>
> On 3/29/06, Larry C. Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Isaac,
> >
> > You may want to try this COS calculator:
> > http://www.homefair.com/homefair/calc/salcalc.html
> >
> > Moving from Charlottesville to Arlington, your salary would have to
> > jump up to 106,000. Living further out, say in Gainesville or Manassas
> > -both on the edge of the area, you'd only have to earn an extra $7,000
> > to $10,000.
> >
> > The big drawback for both places is that you're looking at a real ugly
> > commute.
> >
> > hth,
> > larry
> >
> >
>
>
> 

~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:11:2974
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/11
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:11
Unsubscribe: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54

Re: cost of living estimates

[S . Isaac Dealey]

Yep. If I move to DC-metro I expect I won't be driving anywhere. At
least not daily.

> I think ugly commutes should be factored in.  You get the
> added expense of
> maintaining a vehicle more so it lasts day to day.  Plus
> the huge added
> aggravation of dealing with the commute.  For the past 5-6
> years I have been
> commuting an insane amount and primarily because the money
> was just so
> good.  I am getting to the point of that not even being a
> good enough reason
> though.


s. isaac dealey 434.293.6201
new epoch : isn't it time for a change?

add features without fixtures with
the onTap open source framework

http://www.fusiontap.com
http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm


~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:11:2973
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/11
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:11
Unsubscribe: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54

Re: cost of living estimates

[S . Isaac Dealey]

Thanks Larry, that's one of the 3 I've tried... although you're
probably plugging in a higher number than I am... I'm only seeing a
jump of $10-12k from CVille to Washington DC... Or that may be based
on owning a house, which ... I'm so busted at the moment that's not
even a remote possibility... maybe in 5-10 years I'll be able to
consider it with some amount of legitimacy... maybe... if my luck
dramatically changes now and is very good for the next 5-10 years.
Unfortunately the same COS tells me that Arlington would be roughly
$9k _less_ than CVille for me, which I don't believe for a second...
but that's the reason for asking about COS in general, because I don't
know that I can really trust this one since I'm pretty certain it's
wildly innacurate when I choose Arlington VA.

> Isaac,

> You may want to try this COS calculator:
> http://www.homefair.com/homefair/calc/salcalc.html

> Moving from Charlottesville to Arlington, your salary
> would have to
> jump up to 106,000. Living further out, say in Gainesville
> or Manassas
> -both on the edge of the area, you'd only have to earn an
> extra $7,000
> to $10,000.

> The big drawback for both places is that you're looking at
> a real ugly commute.

> hth,
> larry

> On 3/29/06, S. Isaac Dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> So, I've generally used the first CoL calculator that
>> comes up in a
>> google search:
>>
>> http://www.homefair.com/calc/salcalc.html
>>
>> Because in the past it's seemed to be the only one that
>> was really
>> available, although now there appear to be a couple more
>> that work
>> (plus a couple that are either broken or lacking certain
>> cities like
>> Charlottesville where I am currently).
>>
>> I've found these other two:
>>
>> http://www.bankrate.com/brm/movecalc.asp
>> http://www.bestplaces.net/col/
>>
>> The problem is that these calculators produce wildly
>> different
>> estimates of cost... Example:
>>
>> From: Charlottesville VA
>> To: San Francisco CA
>> Income: $70k
>>
>> 1. roughly equivalent
>> 2. 60% increase ($111k)
>> 3. 80% increase ($125k)
>>
>> The comparison between here and DC is similar although
>> less drastic.
>> One thing that bothers me is that the first calculator is
>> the only one
>> of the three that includes rent vs. own in the
>> calculation. (23%-32%
>> increase although the first calculator says that
>> Arlington which hugs
>> the side of downtown DC is equivalent of Charlottesville,
>> which I find
>> difficult to believe)
>>
>> I'd be grateful for any thoughts or resources anyone has.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> s. isaac dealey 434.293.6201
>> new epoch : isn't it time for a change?
>>
>> add features without fixtures with
>> the onTap open source framework
>>
>> http://www.fusiontap.com
>> http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm
>>
>>
>>

> ~~
> 

~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:11:2972
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/11
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:11
Unsubscribe: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54

Re: cost of living estimates

[Aaron Rouse]

I think ugly commutes should be factored in.  You get the added expense of
maintaining a vehicle more so it lasts day to day.  Plus the huge added
aggravation of dealing with the commute.  For the past 5-6 years I have been
commuting an insane amount and primarily because the money was just so
good.  I am getting to the point of that not even being a good enough reason
though.

On 3/29/06, Larry C. Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Isaac,
>
> You may want to try this COS calculator:
> http://www.homefair.com/homefair/calc/salcalc.html
>
> Moving from Charlottesville to Arlington, your salary would have to
> jump up to 106,000. Living further out, say in Gainesville or Manassas
> -both on the edge of the area, you'd only have to earn an extra $7,000
> to $10,000.
>
> The big drawback for both places is that you're looking at a real ugly
> commute.
>
> hth,
> larry
>
>


~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:11:2971
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/11
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:11
Unsubscribe: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54

Re: cost of living estimates

[Larry C. Lyons]

Isaac,

You may want to try this COS calculator:
http://www.homefair.com/homefair/calc/salcalc.html

Moving from Charlottesville to Arlington, your salary would have to
jump up to 106,000. Living further out, say in Gainesville or Manassas
-both on the edge of the area, you'd only have to earn an extra $7,000
to $10,000.

The big drawback for both places is that you're looking at a real ugly commute.

hth,
larry

On 3/29/06, S. Isaac Dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So, I've generally used the first CoL calculator that comes up in a
> google search:
>
> http://www.homefair.com/calc/salcalc.html
>
> Because in the past it's seemed to be the only one that was really
> available, although now there appear to be a couple more that work
> (plus a couple that are either broken or lacking certain cities like
> Charlottesville where I am currently).
>
> I've found these other two:
>
> http://www.bankrate.com/brm/movecalc.asp
> http://www.bestplaces.net/col/
>
> The problem is that these calculators produce wildly different
> estimates of cost... Example:
>
> From: Charlottesville VA
> To: San Francisco CA
> Income: $70k
>
> 1. roughly equivalent
> 2. 60% increase ($111k)
> 3. 80% increase ($125k)
>
> The comparison between here and DC is similar although less drastic.
> One thing that bothers me is that the first calculator is the only one
> of the three that includes rent vs. own in the calculation. (23%-32%
> increase although the first calculator says that Arlington which hugs
> the side of downtown DC is equivalent of Charlottesville, which I find
> difficult to believe)
>
> I'd be grateful for any thoughts or resources anyone has.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> s. isaac dealey 434.293.6201
> new epoch : isn't it time for a change?
>
> add features without fixtures with
> the onTap open source framework
>
> http://www.fusiontap.com
> http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm
>
>
> 

~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:11:2970
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/11
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:11
Unsubscribe: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54

Re: Onsite vs. Offsite

[RobG]

I work much better off-site as well, and in fact I currently do.  Remote 
contracts are few and far between anymore.  I suspect that companies 
that demand on-site are (in my perhaps tainted opinion) paranoid about 
not being able to monitor/control their workers.

I was very fortunate in that I worked entirely from home beginning in 
early 2001 (after the dot-com collapse in the SF Bay Area when my last 
on-site contract concluded as the company folded), and with only a 
couple exceptions, it has been that way ever since.

The latest exception is that I took a chance and moved up here to 
Montana back in July for a "real" job.  In the first week, I learned 
that my boss was a major micro-manager.  I wasn't hired to be a 
developer -- I was hired to be HIM.  He was so anal that he wanted me to 
write code EXACTLY the same way that he did -- the same style, down to 
the last intimate detail.  And you should have seen his code -- it was 
AWFUL.  What little I saw of it, that is.  He was so paranoid about 
people stealing his code that the only time I got to see any of it was 
when he thought I could use some of it instead of writing stuff from 
scratch.  It's no wonder he didn't make it working for other companies 
and had to start his own.

At the promise of a cut of the profits of the project I was working on, 
I agreed to abide by these ridiculous requirements.  Then after five 
months, they conveniently ran out of money and let me go.  There are 
many more details, but it doesn't matter in this context.

I was insightful enough to see this coming, and picked up a new remote 
contract a week prior, and am now MUCH happier.  The best part is that 
I'm making more money.

Personally, I am 100% DONE with working a "real" job on-site all the 
time.  It's either remote contract, with occasional on-site as needed, 
or I'll go find another line of work entirely.

Rob




Christian N. Abad wrote:
> Hello All:
> 
> I'm curious as to why so many companies demand (note the use of the word
> demand versus require) that CF developers work onsite.  I consulted for
> several years and only accepted opportunities that allowed me to work
> remotely.  I now run my entire company from the comfort of my home office.
> (Yes, all of my resources work remotely - an arrangement we all find
> beneficial and extremely rewarding.)
> 
> So why, then, do many companies demand (there's that word again) that CF
> resources work onsite for project work?  I mean let's get real; do you
> really expect a resource to relocate to some undesirable location to work
> onsite for a company that views them as an expendable resource on a project
> that lasts only a few months?  It seems you could attract higher caliber
> developers if you weren't so rigid in the work arrangement.  After all,
> telecommuting is not new by any stroke of the imagination...
> 
> Disclaimer:  I understand there are exceptions for work arrangements that
> require security clearance, like DOD and Government opportunities, that's
> now what I'm talking about here...
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> ~Christian N. Abad
> President, Accessible Computing
> 
> Accessible Computing, Inc.
> 1210 McLaughlin Drive
> Charlotte, NC 28212
> 
> 704.248.8855 (office)
> 704.248.6682 (fax)
> 
> http://www.accessiblecomputing.com

~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:11:2969
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/11
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:11
Unsubscribe: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54

Re: Onsite vs. Offsite

[Scott Brady]

Our small company requires on-site.  We allow our employees to work from 
home as needs arise (weather, family issues, etc.), but most of the time 
is spent on-site.

The nature of our IT team is such that it fosters collaboration and 
brainstorming better than having people work remotely.  Of course, we 
occasionally have projects that are on a tight deadline, and we 
basically tell the coder(s) for that project to work at home to prevent 
distractions.

We have 4 people who work remotely in other states (two contractor 
developers and two marketing employees), and we've found that there's 
not just enough good communication remotely.

Of course, I'm talking about actual employees.  If you're doing 
consultant/contract work, then remote work makes more sense.

Scott





~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:11:2968
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/11
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:11
Unsubscribe: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54

Re: Onsite vs. Offsite

[Aaron Rouse]

I have a feeling there are a lot of people out there who may not be very
productive working from home.  I personally get a lot more done when working
from home than coming into the office.  I even get more done when working at
home and watching my 4 year old than when at the office.  However most of my
hours that I bill for are from the office because they want me here to help
others.  Would be nice to just do the job solely from home, but has not been
a possibility for 3-4 years now.

On 3/29/06, John Wilker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Beats me.
>
> I prefer offsite myself too. I try to limit my on-site-ness as much as
> possible. I'm much more productive when I work from home, and can put in
> more time.
>
> J
>
>


~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:11:2967
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/11
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:11
Unsubscribe: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54

Re: Onsite vs. Offsite

[John Wilker]

Beats me.

I prefer offsite myself too. I try to limit my on-site-ness as much as
possible. I'm much more productive when I work from home, and can put in
more time.

J

On 3/29/06, Christian N. Abad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello All:
>
> I'm curious as to why so many companies demand (note the use of the word
> demand versus require) that CF developers work onsite.  I consulted for
> several years and only accepted opportunities that allowed me to work
> remotely.  I now run my entire company from the comfort of my home office.
> (Yes, all of my resources work remotely - an arrangement we all find
> beneficial and extremely rewarding.)
>
> So why, then, do many companies demand (there's that word again) that CF
> resources work onsite for project work?  I mean let's get real; do you
> really expect a resource to relocate to some undesirable location to work
> onsite for a company that views them as an expendable resource on a
> project
> that lasts only a few months?  It seems you could attract higher caliber
> developers if you weren't so rigid in the work arrangement.  After all,
> telecommuting is not new by any stroke of the imagination...
>
> Disclaimer:  I understand there are exceptions for work arrangements that
> require security clearance, like DOD and Government opportunities, that's
> now what I'm talking about here...
>
> Thoughts?
>
> ~Christian N. Abad
> President, Accessible Computing
>
> Accessible Computing, Inc.
> 1210 McLaughlin Drive
> Charlotte, NC 28212
>
> 704.248.8855 (office)
> 704.248.6682 (fax)
>
> http://www.accessiblecomputing.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 

~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:11:2966
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/11
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:11
Unsubscribe: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54

Onsite vs. Offsite

[Christian N. Abad]

Hello All:

I'm curious as to why so many companies demand (note the use of the word
demand versus require) that CF developers work onsite.  I consulted for
several years and only accepted opportunities that allowed me to work
remotely.  I now run my entire company from the comfort of my home office.
(Yes, all of my resources work remotely - an arrangement we all find
beneficial and extremely rewarding.)

So why, then, do many companies demand (there's that word again) that CF
resources work onsite for project work?  I mean let's get real; do you
really expect a resource to relocate to some undesirable location to work
onsite for a company that views them as an expendable resource on a project
that lasts only a few months?  It seems you could attract higher caliber
developers if you weren't so rigid in the work arrangement.  After all,
telecommuting is not new by any stroke of the imagination...

Disclaimer:  I understand there are exceptions for work arrangements that
require security clearance, like DOD and Government opportunities, that's
now what I'm talking about here...

Thoughts?

~Christian N. Abad
President, Accessible Computing

Accessible Computing, Inc.
1210 McLaughlin Drive
Charlotte, NC 28212

704.248.8855 (office)
704.248.6682 (fax)

http://www.accessiblecomputing.com






~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:11:2965
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/11
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:11
Unsubscribe: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54

cost of living estimates

[S . Isaac Dealey]

So, I've generally used the first CoL calculator that comes up in a
google search:

http://www.homefair.com/calc/salcalc.html

Because in the past it's seemed to be the only one that was really
available, although now there appear to be a couple more that work
(plus a couple that are either broken or lacking certain cities like
Charlottesville where I am currently).

I've found these other two:

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/movecalc.asp
http://www.bestplaces.net/col/

The problem is that these calculators produce wildly different
estimates of cost... Example:

From: Charlottesville VA
To: San Francisco CA
Income: $70k

1. roughly equivalent
2. 60% increase ($111k)
3. 80% increase ($125k)

The comparison between here and DC is similar although less drastic.
One thing that bothers me is that the first calculator is the only one
of the three that includes rent vs. own in the calculation. (23%-32%
increase although the first calculator says that Arlington which hugs
the side of downtown DC is equivalent of Charlottesville, which I find
difficult to believe)

I'd be grateful for any thoughts or resources anyone has.

Thanks,


s. isaac dealey 434.293.6201
new epoch : isn't it time for a change?

add features without fixtures with
the onTap open source framework

http://www.fusiontap.com
http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm


~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:11:2964
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/11
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:11
Unsubscribe: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54

Re: advice wanted regarding short notice

[Maureen]

If you're interested in San Francisco, I can hook you up with the
company I work for.

On 3/28/06, S. Isaac Dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> In any event, Tiff and I decided our confidence isn't good enough to
> accept it, so I'm sticking to my job search for now.

~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:11:2963
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/11
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:11
Unsubscribe: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54