Re: [Cooker] 7.0beta - oxygen
There will always be a cooker --- changing the name of a mailing list is just way too much bother. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux/GNU Education Group: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-education/ "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)
Re: [Cooker] On /usr/bin
Traditionally, we have two traditions, one based in AT&T and the other based in BSD. I've long ago forgotten which is which. The rational for Unix path assignments was quite logical /usr probably never meant "user" but "unix system resources" or some such. /usr was the basic Unix with /lib, /bin and /sbin taking more primitive roles as the bootloader, recovery disk, command monitor or other low-level sysadmin-eyes-only toolkit. sbin meant "static binary" not "system binary" and should only include programs statically linked as insurance against dynamic linker emergencies. /usr/bin, /usr/sbin, /usr/share, /usr/lib were for Unix distribution files, ie, those packages shipped by the O/S vendor. Therefore RH is historically justified in placing KDE in there because it is included in their RH disks. When you do your backups, you should not need to include these directories (because you have them all on CD anyway) and when you upgrade, only these directories are affected. FSF (I believe) first started the tradition of offering their GNU packages based at /opt although this may have been a Sun convention for any extra packages added by the system administrator for access by all users. We would use /opt for packages we were unrelated to the distro, as a means to keep them out of the way of official package upgrades. /opt is, not surprisingly, "optional" and all items in there come from other sources. If you call your vendor tech support about /opt packages, they politely hang up on you. Thus, KDE is perfectly right to place their RPMs in here because their RPMs come from KDE.org, not from your O/S vendor. Not everone knew about /opt, and prior to Richard Stallman, most 3rd party software (who is the 2nd party?) was placed into /usr/local to make it easy to commit to tape backup. Thus does Apache today install itself to /usr/local as does most experimental beta and alpha software. /usr/local, back when people were honest, decent folk, traditionally had open or group-write permissions (or at least /usr/local/share). If I found some program for my team and we thought others might want to use it, we would place it into /usr/local, most often without bothering the system admins. /usr/local meant "caveat emptor: buyer beware", "ops does not support this" and no guarantees were given or expected. This was typically unprofessionally installed and unsanctioned skunkworks software, and thus, even in modern Linux, the root account, by default, does not include /usr/local for fear of it containing trojan-horses masking out important commands. Most often, users had /usr/local/bin and /usr/local/lib ahead of the system paths so the administrator could create wrappers around apps that may need more protections before the unwashed masses could use it. Today this custom persists in the Netscape shell script that checks for a running process before it launches a new browser window (although RH puts this script into /usr/bin) As time went on and backup methods matured, /var was added to move out all those files considered too volatile to be usefully added to a tar archive, and /home was added to allow sharing personal files across many machines so you would log in to your own one set of files regardless which terminal or server you approached. Similarly, we added /export for non-sensitive material that could be offered for varying degrees of NFS access. Alas, the world is a different place today, our civilization is going to ruin, the young people have no respect for their elders and they spend all their days in the pubs (actually, that statement is a quote, inscribed thousands of years ago on the walls of the Great Pyramid of Giza ;) and all our best intended conventions have been cast aside on whims of fancy. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux/GNU Education Group: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-education/ "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)
Re: [Cooker] 7.0beta - oxygen
Chmouel Boudjnah wrote: > Alwyn Schoeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Is this just a name change? If so WHY? > > not just a name change, a complete rebuild and a roughly tested tree. > > --Chmouel Ok, but will cooker stay where it is on the mirrors? -- ~~ Alwyn Schoeman Systems Engineer Prism Secure Solutions
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake's only mistake
Redhat does the same thing. Plus you would loose the nice desktop settings that mandrake is known for. On Thu, 23 Dec 1999, you wrote: > Why dont you do it yourself? Borrow RH's KDE RPMS and install them? It cant > be too hard. Also theres no reason to complain just because there not in the > directory where *YOU* want them. > > Happy Holidays, > Sam > >
[Cooker] On /usr/bin
What we do at school to take care of the big huge pile of unsorted stuff in the /usr/bin directories is we have a separate directory called /usr/pkgs. Each package has it's own directory with it's own bin share man lib, etc, subdirectories. Then symlincs are made in /usr/bin to those directories. Is there any reason (besides the extra inode usage) that this would not be a good way to do this? The one thing I hate in linux is having this one directory where all the executables are just thrown in. This makes it really annoying when trying to clean up old stuff. Sure RPM addresses this issue in a way, but you can't always have rpms. Plus I really hate the way Mandrake and Redhat throw KDE and GNOME all mixed up into the /usr directory, especially since this renders many of the KDE RPMS unusable (or at least unwieldly), Plus you never know if in the future any of the file structures change it might cause conflicts. Hopefully we can move to a more organized directory structure in the future. Daniel Tabuenca <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves elected President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Some wisdom from the Book
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake's only mistake
Why dont you do it yourself? Borrow RH's KDE RPMS and install them? It cant be too hard. Also theres no reason to complain just because there not in the directory where *YOU* want them. Happy Holidays, Sam - Original Message - From: "Troy Unrau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 11:24 AM Subject: [Cooker] Mandrake's only mistake > You guys come up with the perfect distribution in every way possible. > Everything is standard. You can change some stuff without the entire thing > going bezerk and not letting you change your themes as in Caldera. But my only > grief, and the only reason for not using Mandrake anymore is where you put the > wm's. For instance, I don't care about the bloody FHS, but kde must go in > /opt/kde. If it isn't there, I simply won't use them. I hate having /usr/bin > full to the brim with files that are in no way associated with each other. And > I really hate reinstalling every single kde related package in order to move > it. If exceptions to the rules can be made for X, why the hell not for kde. > Just make it an install option (put kde in /opt/kde) or something and I'll go > back to using Mandrake, but otherwise... please?! > > Thanks for listening. Feel free to flame, comment, etc. Just send it back to > my personal address since I am no longer subscribed to this list. > > Troy >
[Cooker] Mandrake's only mistake
You guys come up with the perfect distribution in every way possible. Everything is standard. You can change some stuff without the entire thing going bezerk and not letting you change your themes as in Caldera. But my only grief, and the only reason for not using Mandrake anymore is where you put the wm's. For instance, I don't care about the bloody FHS, but kde must go in /opt/kde. If it isn't there, I simply won't use them. I hate having /usr/bin full to the brim with files that are in no way associated with each other. And I really hate reinstalling every single kde related package in order to move it. If exceptions to the rules can be made for X, why the hell not for kde. Just make it an install option (put kde in /opt/kde) or something and I'll go back to using Mandrake, but otherwise... please?! Thanks for listening. Feel free to flame, comment, etc. Just send it back to my personal address since I am no longer subscribed to this list. Troy
Re: [Cooker] slightly off topic: Where is the rest of C++???
Oops ... never mind --- I don't know why stdc++-devel was missed, but now that I have it, all is well again :) -- Gary Lawrence Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux/GNU Education Group: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-education/ "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)
[Cooker] GUI Install Problems
I downloaded the GUI Network floppy image from ftp and made the floppy disk. When I boot up on the floppy the mandrake logo came up near the top of the screen and all these red lines appeared in the background. Well I preceded to wait for the light to go off on the floppy drive and nothing happens when it does. No install no nothing, just stays at the logo. When I press a key the light goes on as if its trying to read something on the floppy. But it just stays at the logo. Anyone know whats going on? System info: Video: I740 supported by XFree and has VESA support Memory: 96MB CPU: Celeron 400 Thanks, Sam
[Cooker] final?
Just a short question. When will Mandrake 7.0 FINAL be released? within a week? two? a month? two months? I understad that I can't be given an exact answer.
[Cooker] slightly off topic: Where is the rest of C++???
I just tried updating LyX to 1.1.3 from a copy in the contrib directory and was greeted with a dependency on the strangely named libstd++libc2.1-1.so or some such obscurity; I fetched the sources from lyx.org, but this was greeted with unresolved includes for the standard C++ includes (iostreams or ostreams, vector etc); a scan of my drive confirms these files are nowhere to be found and a scan of all the pgcc... rpms shows very few C++ includes. What packages am I missing here? -- Gary Lawrence Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux/GNU Education Group: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-education/ "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)
[Cooker] iso?
I'd like to beta test, but can't find an iso image. Is there one? Download NeoPlanet at http://www.neoplanet.com
[Cooker] New auto boot
Ok i've updated the autoboot that hasn't been touched sense cooker started (ok almost) Nothing to major, updated initrd and vmlinuz for all the install methods try a little harder to backup and keep a orignal autoexec.bat and config.sys (still recommend putting them on floppy) add an Uninstall.bat to restore the autoexec.bat and config.sys Should be finished uploading here in about 10-15mins, it's avalable from the usual place (ftp://ftp.mandrakesoft.com/pub/axalon/autoboot) -- MandrakeSoft http://www.mandrakesoft.com/ --Axalon
[Cooker] i would like to betat test oxygen
I would like to help beta test but i dont find the iso version can u tell me what and where to look for?
Re: [Cooker] [cooker] GRUB rpm
- Original Message - From: Bruno Bodin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 4:05 PM Subject: [Cooker] [cooker] GRUB rpm > If anyone is interested, I built a rpm for grub 0.5.93.1 (on a redhat > 6.0 box, > but it works fine on an helios box). Just tell me where to upload it. > > It just contains the files, no automatic configuration. Read > /usr/doc/grub../grub.ps > > Kudos, Bruno. You are The Man! Hoyt
[Cooker] [cooker] GRUB rpm
If anyone is interested, I built a rpm for grub 0.5.93.1 (on a redhat 6.0 box, but it works fine on an helios box). Just tell me where to upload it. It just contains the files, no automatic configuration. Read /usr/doc/grub../grub.ps Bruno
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake 7.0
On Wed, 22 Dec 1999, Mindaugas Riauba wrote: > What improvement 7.0 will have against 6.1 if even major version > is incremented? The Web site has a feature list. Over and above that, Mandrake 7.0 features upgrades of your favorite packages, which include tons of new features and bug fixes. Too many to list, in fact :)
[Cooker] Mandrake 7.0
What improvement 7.0 will have against 6.1 if even major version is incremented? Mindaugas
Re: [Cooker] Testing Beta
- Original Message - From: Ron Rosenthal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 12:48 PM Subject: [Cooker] Testing Beta > Hi > > I'd like to test the beta, but I can't find an iso image, which would > make downloading 7.0 a lot easier. Can you help? > I would like to add support for that request. I lack a fast internet connection and rely on a friend to download the big stuff (I can handle the updtaes fine on my own if I keep up with them.) . However, he is behind a _highly_ restricted firewall and can only download via http, not ftp, so a single iso file is easy, multiple files in multiple directories are not. He cannot get ftp access. Even if the iso is larger than "normal", overburning and 80 minute CD's are becoming more common, although I have no doubt that one day Mandrake will be the first distro to need to be released on DVD. BTW, I noticed that the boot image files have a newer date on them than cooker. Is there a change other than a date? (Might help with my install problem re: mouse?) Keep up the good work and soon the world (or at least the important part of the world) will know that Mandrake is _not_ "RedHat plus some stuff". Hoyt
[Cooker] Problem with WindowMaker-0.61.1-4mdk
Hi, I reported that earlier, but the version of WindowMaker in the Oxygen Beta has got a bug (problem with wmconfig menus). Actually, the official 0.61.1 release contains this bug. I have packaged WindowMaker-0.61.1-5mdk with a cvs snapshot from 12/12/1999 and uploaded it a few days ealier to ftp.linux-mandrake.com/incoming. This version fixes the bug and seems to be as stable as 4mdk (may i remind you that the latest stable version is 0.53). I hope this will be corrected before Oxygen is released. I explained all this to Lenny last week, but haven't heard from him since then. Regards, Gwen PGP signature
[Cooker] Testing Beta
Hi I'd like to test the beta, but I can't find an iso image, which would make downloading 7.0 a lot easier. Can youhelp? Thanks. Ron Rosenthal [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Cooker] Re: Cooker Boot Glitches
Kaixo! On Wed, Dec 22, 1999 at 02:40:11PM +0100, Chmouel Boudjnah wrote: >> Then I say let's go for it --- if it does everything LILO does, I see >> no reason to stay with a program that has not been updated in years >> when there is a viable and practical alternative which is also GPL > > the only problem we have is the adaptation in DrakX (need a big > recasting of lilo section), That has to be done also for the non-PC versions (eg PPC and alpha) -- Ki ça vos våye bén, Pablo Saratxaga http://www.ping.be/~pin19314/ PGP Key available, key ID: 0x8F0E4975
Re: [Cooker] QT 2.0.2 rpms
On 22 Dec 1999, Chmouel Boudjnah wrote: > upload to incomming of linux-mandrake. for oxygen we are in complete > freeze and we can't update a libraries yet. Ok, I upload them... -- Takika
Re: [Cooker] 7.0beta - oxygen
On Wed, 22 Dec 1999, Florent Villard wrote: > > > Oxygen is 2.2 based, 2.3 are development kernels and should not be used > > > in production environment, however you are free, AT YOUR OWN RISKS, > > > to install the hackkernel packages which provides development version of > > > the linux kernel. > > > > > On what version is actually based hackkernel ? > > > > The last stable :) version is 2.3.30 cos 31, 32 33 and 34 are not stable > enought. 32 was the unstable one, all the others worked fine for me except for some swap bugs, both on SMP and on UP. > I'm just compiling 2.3.35pre1 that may replace 2.3.30 as we are now > nearly in pre2.4 and that all remaining bugs are getting corrected There are MANY remaining bugs, and they won't even start to be fixed until Linus announces a code freeze, maybe two weeks from now. Until then, people are going to be shoving as much code as they can at Linus, in hopes of getting that code into 2.4 Expect bugs for another couple weeks at least... Jeff
Re: [Cooker] 7.0beta - oxygen
On 22 Dec 1999, Vandoorselaere Yoann wrote: > Florent Villard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > Will Oxygen be 2.3 or 2.2 based? > > > > Oxygen is 2.2 based, 2.3 are development kernels and should not be used > > in production environment, however you are free, AT YOUR OWN RISKS, > > to install the hackkernel packages which provides development version of > > the linux kernel. > > > On what version is actually based hackkernel ? 2.3.30-preXX right now I think, but it will be updated fairly regularly. 2.3.35-preXX has some fixes in it, as well as a lot of new K00L code. :) Jeff
Re: [Cooker] 7.0beta - oxygen
Florent Villard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Oxygen is 2.2 based, 2.3 are development kernels and should not be used > > > in production environment, however you are free, AT YOUR OWN RISKS, > > > to install the hackkernel packages which provides development version of > > > the linux kernel. > > > > > On what version is actually based hackkernel ? > > > > The last stable :) version is 2.3.30 cos 31, 32 33 and 34 are not stable > enought. > > I'm just compiling 2.3.35pre1 that may replace 2.3.30 as we are now > nearly in pre2.4 and that all remaining bugs are getting corrected > 2.3.30/31 are *extremly* instable... ( thing like process not killable, lock problem ). I'm using 2.3.34, it seem to be stable, on my home system ( except the video4linux bttv stuff ). -- -- Yoann, http://www.security-addict.org It is well known that M$ products don't call free() after a malloc(). The Unix community wish them good luck for their future developments.
Re: [Cooker] 7.0beta - oxygen
> > Oxygen is 2.2 based, 2.3 are development kernels and should not be used > > in production environment, however you are free, AT YOUR OWN RISKS, > > to install the hackkernel packages which provides development version of > > the linux kernel. > > > On what version is actually based hackkernel ? > The last stable :) version is 2.3.30 cos 31, 32 33 and 34 are not stable enought. I'm just compiling 2.3.35pre1 that may replace 2.3.30 as we are now nearly in pre2.4 and that all remaining bugs are getting corrected -- Warly
Re: [Cooker] 7.0beta - oxygen
On 22 Dec 1999, Vandoorselaere Yoann wrote: > Florent Villard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > Will Oxygen be 2.3 or 2.2 based? > > > > Oxygen is 2.2 based, 2.3 are development kernels and should not be used > > in production environment, however you are free, AT YOUR OWN RISKS, > > to install the hackkernel packages which provides development version of > > the linux kernel. > > > On what version is actually based hackkernel ? base is linux-2.3.28.tar.bz2 last patch is 2.3.30-pre3 :( i already complained once -- MandrakeSoft http://www.mandrakesoft.com/ --Axalon
Re: [Cooker] 7.0beta - oxygen
Florent Villard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Will Oxygen be 2.3 or 2.2 based? > > Oxygen is 2.2 based, 2.3 are development kernels and should not be used > in production environment, however you are free, AT YOUR OWN RISKS, > to install the hackkernel packages which provides development version of > the linux kernel. > On what version is actually based hackkernel ? -- -- Yoann, http://www.security-addict.org It is well known that M$ products don't call free() after a malloc(). The Unix community wish them good luck for their future developments.
[Cooker] QT 2.0.2 rpms
Hello! I made $SUBJECT... In oxygen only the qt2-2.0.1 rpms. Where can I upload my rpms? -- Takika
Re: [Cooker] 7.0beta - oxygen
> Will Oxygen be 2.3 or 2.2 based? Oxygen is 2.2 based, 2.3 are development kernels and should not be used in production environment, however you are free, AT YOUR OWN RISKS, to install the hackkernel packages which provides development version of the linux kernel. -- Warly
Re: [Cooker] 7.0beta - oxygen
On Wed, 22 Dec 1999, Alwyn Schoeman wrote: > Is this just a name change? If so WHY? It's a massive syncronisation of everything. Which differs in general from cooker in that this is _supposed_ to work. It also includes all the i18n summarys descriptions, and i assume updated docs. It has been frozen and there will be no changes to the tree for an amount of time i don't know right this second, to avoid one big problem we had last time. All the rpms i maintain are the same versions for both so you should hhave much to download in that respect.. > Pixel wrote: > > > mandrake-devel is currently being replaced by oxygen on the mirror > > so be prepared for a big download ;-) > > > > more information will come soon... > > > > cu Pixel. > -- MandrakeSoft http://www.mandrakesoft.com/ --Axalon
