Re: [CTRL] Anarchist Black Bloc Press Release
> >If you use violence to change >violence, you have changed nothing. I take it that you have never fought off a rapist. Think about this for a minute before you start generalizing, here. Don't be so simplistic. First of all, what is violence? Is property damage violence? Is self defense? What about the Boston Tea Party? Was that violence? And if it was, does that make it wrong? Was Concord wrong? Was Lexington? How about Bunker Hill? How about Yorktown? Gettysburg? Kursk? D-Day? The liberation of Auschwitz? Was it wrong to liberate Auschwitz simply because it required shooting a whole bunch of Germans, dismembering others and burning others alive? Was it wrong to end slavery with bayonets and powder? Violence is not a bad thing. Violence is not a good thing. It's just a thing, that's all. It's been part of Nature since life began. Whether it's a good thing or or a bad thing depends on who is doing it to whom, where, when, how and why. There's a world of difference between a knife to his victim's throat and a knee to a rapist's crotch. Personally, I only use violence in self defense. In part this is because I'm a four eyed, grey haired, gimp. I didn't used to be this way. I used to be young. The last time I actually started a fight was back in '91. A guy was beating on a woman on Haight St. one night I thought it was a domestic. So i attacked him. That broke it up quick. I'm an old fashioned guy, I guess, because that's what my Grandma raised me up to believe a guy is supposed to do in a case like that. Don't let the strong beat on the weak. Don't let a man beat on a woman. Don't let anyone beat on a child. Stop them. Do it yourself. That's what she taught me. Somebody has to it, because the cops sure as hell wont. It's not their job. Cops don't prevent crime. Cops don't even show up till after it's already over. It turned out not to be a domestic at all, but drug deal gone bad, and none of my business, really. She ran one way; he ran the other. I chased him around the corner. He had a couple friends waiting around the corner. To my enormous surprise, I suddenly in over my head. Fortunately, none of them noticed. Had they noticed, I'd have been hard put to get out of it alive, even though there was only three of them. It's come to that. Old age sucks, bigtime. I don't recommend it at all. Worse, all three of them got away. When I was young, I'd have picked one of them up and knocked the other two down with him. But I'm not young any more and I'm smart enough not to have to get hurt to prove it. If these guys had been smart, or even sober, they'd have had me. But I lucked out. They didn't have clue one about the nature of the terrain or of our relative positions. Let's hear it for crack and malt liquor. Or maybe they were just naturally stupid. Either way, lucky me. Now don't get me wrong, here. Luck is cool. I like luck a lot. But I don't think I ought to be figuring it into the budget. I did get my licks in before they got away. But I could not run them down for the life of me. I don't have the stamina. In a running fight, the first guy who gets winded, loses, and that's how it is. I didn't even try. I see no point in losing a street fight with anyone. It's bad tactics and worse strategy. It's not good for the health, either. So I just let them go. Since that happened, I've totally given up rescuing people. I'd probably change my mind in a hurry if I saw a child getting beat on, but that hasn't happened. I sincerely hope it doesn't, because I'm definitely to old for this stuff. Oh well. Same goes for all these street actions lately. Personally, I'm not going to go riot in LA. I'm much too old to go rioting. When I was young, I used to go rioting sometimes, when the occasion called for it. (See:http://www.sfbg.com/nessie/mutt.html) I don't feel the least bit guilty about this. Au contrair. I'm proud of myself. It was definitely the right thing to do at the time. It definitely helped make the world a better place by helping end an unjust, no-win war. This undoubtedly saved countless lives. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire and that's just how it is in this world. Get used to it. Or build a different world. That doesn't mean that I think you should go rioting now. I'm definitely not trying to incite you to riot. I'm not trying to incite anybody else to riot either. I'm especially not doing this over the internet, especially not a couple days before D2K, especially not with the FBI reading over our shoulders, no matter who tries to sucker me into it. I might be stupid, but I'm not crazy. (See: http://www.sfbg.com/nessie/24.html) I'm not all that stupid, either. If a cell phone is an "instrument of crime," what's that make a modem? Even if I WAS inciting you to riot, which I am NOT doing, that alone would be no reason for you to riot. Don't let other people incite you to riot, especially over the internet. Don't let other people incite you to not riot, either. Don't let other peo
Re: [CTRL] Anarchist Black Bloc Press Release
Nessie, that doesn't answer my question. If you use violence to change violence, you have changed nothing. That's the whole point of the Gandhi quote: The end IS implicit in the means. Or, to paraphrase a passage from the Buddha, "Hatred is not overcome by hatred; hatred is overcome only by love. This is an old rule." - Original Message - From: "nessie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Anarchist Black Bloc Press Release > [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: > > > >If private property is as > > >absurd a concept as it certainly appears to be, doesn't it make more sense > > >to *ignore* it rather than try to eradicate it using the very methods that > >brought it into existence? > > > > Because it does not ignore us. > > It is important to distinguish between personal property and private > property. We have the utmost respect for personal property. It is the > essence of liberty. > > http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > == > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis- > directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > > Archives Available at: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Anarchist Black Bloc Press Release
[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: > >If private property is as >absurd a concept as it certainly appears to be, doesn't it make more sense >to *ignore* it rather than try to eradicate it using the very methods that >brought it into existence? Because it does not ignore us. It is important to distinguish between personal property and private property. We have the utmost respect for personal property. It is the essence of liberty. http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Anarchist Black Bloc Press Release
It seems to me that the end implied by this particular means would resemble rather closely the thing it aspires to replace... If private property is as absurd a concept as it certainly appears to be, doesn't it make more sense to *ignore* it rather than try to eradicate it using the very methods that brought it into existence? - Original Message - From: "Oscar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 2:21 PM Subject: [CTRL] Anarchist Black Bloc Press Release > http://www.magicnet.net/~jza/news.html > > August 8, 2000 > >Anarchist Black Bloc Press Release > > As anarchists we believe private property is theft, state property is a tool for the protection of corporate interests and that both must be destroyed for the creation of a society based on mutual aid and individual liberty. ... Property damage, as one form of strategic direct action, is an effective way to achieve this goal. ~~ > The end is in the means as the tree is in the seed. > - Mahatma Ghandi > ~~ http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Anarchist Black Bloc Press Release
http://www.magicnet.net/~jza/news.html August 8, 2000 Anarchist Black Bloc Press Release Statement from R2K Black Bloc We, the various members of the Anti-Statist Black Bloc (ASBB) put forth the following statement in the wake of the Philadelphia Police Department's blatant misinformation and the corporate media's biased reports against us. The ASBB advocates the building of an organized movement against corporate and state tyranny in America. We recognize that poor and working class people have lost control of their communities and individual lives. The Democratic and Republican parties clearly support social relations in which this is furthered. By supporting the death penalty, militarism, corporate welfare, and the cutting of social spending, amongst others, they have proven to be political parties of profit over people as all parties have. By organizing black blocs and using direct action, we confront this intolerable and unacceptable system. As anarchists we believe private property is theft, state property is a tool for the protection of corporate interests and that both must be destroyed for the creation of a society based on mutual aid and individual liberty. By spray-painting a wall we transform the way we think of it from a conception based on monetary value to one based on practicality. In a system that is concerned only with profit we make our most effective protest when we hit the oppressors in the pocketbook. Property damage, as one form of strategic direct action, is an effective way to achieve this goal. This is not just a theory ... this is a fact. Since the actions of the black bloc in Seattle against the WTO, a running debate about global capitalism and democracy has finally entered the public discourse. We are on the brink of a new social revolution. At yesterday's protest, members of the ASBB specifically targeted police and other government property. The ASBB did NOT attack "mom & pop" businesses, or personal property. Remember that there are other organizations and associations that work autonomously with similar tactics. The can only be responsible for OUR actions. The ASBB disavows any responsibility for damage to the personal property of working class and "mom & pop" businesses. The second most misconstrued tactic of the ASBB is the wearing of masks. Since the exposing of COINTELPRO, it has been plainly obvious that many government organizations have been monitoring and disrupting radical organizations. This is a threat to our personal safety and liberty. In this sense, we wear masks for our protection. We do not wear masks to threaten or intimidate the public. Wearing masks also sends the message that we are in solidarity with each other as equals. We look forward to the day when we can live in a society where we won't have to wear our masks. We also stand in solidarity with all the other brothers and sisters who came out to protest yesterday. We are NOT terrorists and we are not an isolated group. We represent a diverse coalition of different races, genders, classes, and political viewpoints that are truly interested in creating a meaningful democracy and fighting the real terrorists: corporate America and the police State. For it was not us who bombed an entire city block, destroying homes and countless memories. It was not us who shot dead Robert Brown. It was not us who brutalized Thomas Jones to a bloody pulp. All these actions are the responsibility of the defenders of private property, the Philadelphia police. We encourage all oppressed peoples to organize for active resistance against power and privilege. Onward to Anarchist social revoilution!!! *** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. Feel free to distribute widely but PLEASE acknowledge the source. *** ~~ The end is in the means as the tree is in the seed. - Mahatma Ghandi ~~ Abraham Lincoln, letter to Wm. F. Elkins Nov. 21 1864 Arthur Shaw ed. The Lincoln Encyclopedia 40 {1950} "We may congratulate ourselves that this cruel war is nearing it's end. It has cost a vast amount of treasure and blood.It has indeed been a trying hour for the Republic, but I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong it's reign by working on the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even i