Re: Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list
On 2016-12-21, Lester Ingber wrote: > Since gmail inserts extra characters that are not recognized as text, I > am using mutt. > > mutt does not permit adding References: headers. Instead, I seem to be > OK getting > "Message-ID: <...>" > from the Raw link, and changing this to > "In-Reply-To: <...>" > > Is there a better/different way of replying to cygwin posts? If you've told mutt that you are subscribed to the cygwin list by putting subscribe cygwin in your muttrc file, then mutt should generate the appropriate headers automatically when you reply to the list with the 'L' command. In this reply, for example, I see that mutt automatically added In-Reply-To: <20161221202630.ga14...@ingber.com> as well as the From:, To: and Subject: headers. For more on this, see the mutt manual, section 12 Mailing Lists and section 5.4 Miscellaneous Functions, the function. Regards, Gary -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
RE: Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list
Since gmail inserts extra characters that are not recognized as text, I am using mutt. mutt does not permit adding References: headers. Instead, I seem to be OK getting "Message-ID: <...>" from the Raw link, and changing this to "In-Reply-To: <...>" Is there a better/different way of replying to cygwin posts? Lester -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list
Andrey Repin wrote: The problem is not the lists or subscription. The problem is that you are using gmail web interface. It's hopelessly broken and is unlikely to be fixed any time soon. --- While it's possible the gmail web interface can be misconfigured, I find that it usually redirects replies consistently with what I'm wanting. Though, of note -- I'd have to test as I don't usually use the gmail interface, it's _probable_ that if you hit 'reply' to a user in the gmail-lists interface, that it will reply to the group instead of to the user. There have been different interfaces on google for reading 'email' and those interfaces have changed over time. But at some point, for example, simply hitting reply might go to the group in the google-lists interface, but would go to a single user in the mail (not list) interface. Lists are built on top of the email interface, and different email readers don't always use the same conventions for these things -- often because people want different behaviors in different situations. How a list is displayed, or if it is displayed as a list at all, is determined by your email reader. References are used by email-processing software to allow the display of 'threaded conversations'. Reference headers headers in email are usually hidden because they intended to be read and added by the software -- not by users. Since I don't use gmail as my primary email client, I'm not familiar with all of its configuration options -- but the best thing to do is to look at the help for the software you are using to read & write emails to users and to groups. I find that thunderbird's interface works best for me so I have my gmail address(es) set to forward email to my ISP user address. Then I have thunderbird set to use send emails out to specific addresses and/or use different from-addresses based on where the responded-to email came from. In all of these cases, though they take a while to get used to -- and you have to keep up with changes in your software. I don't know, but I don't think cygwin is hosted as a google group, in which case, at the bottom of each email are directions for help and questions specific to cygwin: Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Good luck! -Linda -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
RE: Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list
Alternatively, From: Andrey Repin > People use digest when they don't plan to participate in discussions, or if > they are using web mail with no ability or inclination to setup main filters > so that list messages end in a separate directory and not disturbing their > private mails. I subscribe to the digest, I do participate in discussions from time to time, and I don't use a web mail interface. I review the postings through the cygwin website. When I want to reply, I click on the "Other format: [Raw text]" link, which displays some sort of message ID. For example, the message to which I am replying now has the number 204476, which is obtained from the first line of the target of the raw text link: >From cygwin-return-204476-listarch-cygwin=sourceware dot org at cygwin dot com >Fri Aug 12 11:05:19 2016 Then, look for that message in the digest and reply to that. (This is easy in Outlook; can't talk to other e-mail readers.) Because it's a digest, you may not yet have it, but you can ask for it simply by sending an e-mail to . It is a little awkward, but it shows the love. --Ken Nellis -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list
Greetings, Thomas Taylor! > I'd like to thank all of you who responded with advice on how to use > this mailing list, and how to reply to a post. I'd especially like to > thank Kaz Kylheku for his extensive and detailed tutorial on how to use > the mailing list, written as a reply to my original post. I encourage > everyone to take a look at it. The problem is not the lists or subscription. The problem is that you are using gmail web interface. It's hopelessly broken and is unlikely to be fixed any time soon. > Eliot Moss suggested I sign up for the list, as I had just gone ahead > and posted what I think is a bug ("tcsh version 6.19.00-3 hangs on > exit") without realizing I should first sign up. This is not necessary. Most senior list members use normal mail clients and you will receive replies to your messages even if not subscribed. > I then subscribed to the list in digest form, but it's difficult to use > (emails come as individual numbered attachments, which must be > cross-referenced to the digest itself), and doesn't lend itself to > back-and-forth use. Greg Freemyer suggested that I instead subscribe such > that I get each post as a separate email. People use digest when they don't plan to participate in discussions, or if they are using web mail with no ability or inclination to setup main filters so that list messages end in a separate directory and not disturbing their private mails. It is still possible to maintain threading to some extent, if you have such restricted subscription. The solution is to reply to your own sent messages closest in thread to the one you want to reply to. This, however, won't work if the thread was not started by you. > Jack (no last name) and Kaz both emphasized the importance of the > "References" field in the message header. I noticed the References > field in the posts that were replies to my original post, but had no > idea of how to incorporate this field into my replies to the replies. > As I had not yet subscribed to the list, I had no emails to reply to. > If I understand correctly, such emails would have included the essential > References field in their message headers. As I had not yet subscribed, > I had no emails to reply to, and thus posted my replies (like this one) > as top-level posts. But gmail web doesn't insert these headers at all. And your emails sent from it will always end up breaking threading. -- With best regards, Andrey Repin Friday, August 12, 2016 13:51:11 Sorry for my terrible english... -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list
I'd like to thank all of you who responded with advice on how to use this mailing list, and how to reply to a post. I'd especially like to thank Kaz Kylheku for his extensive and detailed tutorial on how to use the mailing list, written as a reply to my original post. I encourage everyone to take a look at it. Eliot Moss suggested I sign up for the list, as I had just gone ahead and posted what I think is a bug ("tcsh version 6.19.00-3 hangs on exit") without realizing I should first sign up. I then subscribed to the list in digest form, but it's difficult to use (emails come as individual numbered attachments, which must be cross-referenced to the digest itself), and doesn't lend itself to back-and-forth use. Greg Freemyer suggested that I instead subscribe such that I get each post as a separate email. Jack (no last name) and Kaz both emphasized the importance of the "References" field in the message header. I noticed the References field in the posts that were replies to my original post, but had no idea of how to incorporate this field into my replies to the replies. As I had not yet subscribed to the list, I had no emails to reply to. If I understand correctly, such emails would have included the essential References field in their message headers. As I had not yet subscribed, I had no emails to reply to, and thus posted my replies (like this one) as top-level posts. And Kaz, I should have been cutting and pasting quoted text from the archive, but unfortunately I wasn't. That's why none of my replies (really completely new messages) quote the original message when replying. Everybody, please correct me if I've gotten anything wrong. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list
On 11.08.2016 17:44, Thomas Taylor wrote: Thank you for responding to my post. I think I asked the wrong question. What I really want to know is how to use this mailing list and others like it. I'm new at this, and can't find any instructions anywhere. Such lists must have become part of the culture, and I must have missed school that day. I'm able to create a post, but don't know how to reply to one. On pretty much any mailing list, you can use "reply all". The most important thing that is going wrong on your end is that your replies are lacking a References: header which cites the Message-ID: values obtained from postings in the thread. These message ID references are actually what organizes the message objects into threads; it's how mail user agents and archivers can reconstruct the conversation tree. Somehow I got the feeling that I should only reply to the mailing list, rather than directly to the person (like you) who responded to my post. Some mailing lists (like this one) are configured such that when you reply to a list posting that you received from the list robot, a list reply occurs whether or not you use "reply" or "reply all". This is because the mailing list robot rewrites the From: headers of the postings which it replicates so that it appears to be the author. This is very useful when lists are expected to be used by kindergarten children rather than grown-ups, because it steers the users to the common behavior of keeping the conversation in the list, without those users having to understand e-mail, mailing lists, or which reply button to use. (In some modern e-mail clients, a third way of replying has also appeared, namely "reply list", I just want to mention. It's an unnecessary feature with an unclear justification that appears to emanate from a deep-rooted misunderstanding of e-mail.) "Reply all" works in most circumstances, regardless of how mailing lists are configured. In the classic mailing list that doesn't rewrite From: lines, nor assert the Reply-To: header, you must use "Reply All", otherwise the reply will only go to the originator. "Reply All" also honors the Cc: line. Your reply is targetted to everyone in the To: and Cc:, which might include some parties who are not subscribers of the mailing list, but are "in the loop" of that particular conversation. I don't get responses via email, and don't even know if I should. If you're subscribed to the list, you should see them; if you aren't, there is some mail delivery problem. Instead, I check for them periodically on the web page for the mailing list archive. If I find a response, I don't know the right way to reply. Replying via the archive is difficult, because it's not set up for that. Some better archivers have such a feature; I use one called "Lurker" on my mailing lists. You can simply click on a reply button in the web archive, and it redirects to your configured mail program, passing the original text and other pieces of information as URL parameters. If I want to reply to a conventionally archived mailing list posting, I copy the raw text version. Then do some editing to restore certain masked syntax like "foo dot bar" to "foo.bar" and "foo at bar" to "foo@bar", in the headers only. I also take care to edit the mbox-format "From ..." line to include the colon after the From, as is required in the regular RFC 822 format. Then I telnet to port 25 of my mail server, compose an envelope from and to myself, and copy and paste that raw e-mail as the SMTP DATA. It arrives in my inbox as if the list had sent it to me; and I can reply to it in the conventional way. Sometimes this method generates a Cc: to the list owner; that has to be removed, either when composing or when editing the raw text before SMTP. I have the feeling you might be cutting and pasting quoted text from the archive and composing new messages, which is why your replies are lacking the References: header. The archiver is able to infer that this is going on, and is threading your replies anyway, under a node marked "". It's probably figuring this out based on some heuristics involving the common Subject: line and perhaps some fuzzy matching on pieces of quoted text. [I'm adding you to the Cc: list in hopes that perhaps direct mail delivery from me-to-you will work, since you aren't getting list traffic.] -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list
On 2016.08.11 22:13, Greg Freemyer wrote: On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Thomas Taylor wrote: > Thank you for responding to my post. I think I asked the wrong question. > What I really want to know is how to use this mailing list and others like > it. I'm new at this, and can't find any instructions anywhere. Such lists > must have become part of the culture, and I must have missed school that > day. I'm able to create a post, but don't know how to reply to one. > Somehow I got the feeling that I should only reply to the mailing list, > rather than directly to the person (like you) who responded to my post. I > don't get responses via email, and don't even know if I should. Instead, I > check for them periodically on the web page for the mailing list archive. > If I find a response, I don't know the right way to reply. Are you subscribed such that you get each email as a separate email? If so, all you have to do is reply. Reply all s normally fine, but I've been on lists with various rules (netiquettes). I suspect your issue is how you subscribed to the list. Greg That also depends on you email software. In most cases, Greg is right, and you can just hit "reply". However, in some cases, the combination of the list software and you email software knows you can "Reply to group" which is different - it replies to the list address, and not to the individual who sent the message. Unfortunately, there is not consistency here, so you have to learn how the lists you subscribe to identify themselves, and how you individual email software deals with that. For example, I need to "G" or "Reply-group" rather than just "Reply". The real issue is simply that you need to pay attention to all the "To:" and "CC:" headers before you hit "Send". -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list
On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Thomas Taylor wrote: > Thank you for responding to my post. I think I asked the wrong question. > What I really want to know is how to use this mailing list and others like > it. I'm new at this, and can't find any instructions anywhere. Such lists > must have become part of the culture, and I must have missed school that > day. I'm able to create a post, but don't know how to reply to one. > Somehow I got the feeling that I should only reply to the mailing list, > rather than directly to the person (like you) who responded to my post. I > don't get responses via email, and don't even know if I should. Instead, I > check for them periodically on the web page for the mailing list archive. > If I find a response, I don't know the right way to reply. > > > -- > Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html > FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ > Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html > Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple > Are you subscribed such that you get each email as a separate email? If so, all you have to do is reply. Reply all s normally fine, but I've been on lists with various rules (netiquettes). I suspect your issue is how you subscribed to the list. Greg -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list
Thank you for responding to my post. I think I asked the wrong question. What I really want to know is how to use this mailing list and others like it. I'm new at this, and can't find any instructions anywhere. Such lists must have become part of the culture, and I must have missed school that day. I'm able to create a post, but don't know how to reply to one. Somehow I got the feeling that I should only reply to the mailing list, rather than directly to the person (like you) who responded to my post. I don't get responses via email, and don't even know if I should. Instead, I check for them periodically on the web page for the mailing list archive. If I find a response, I don't know the right way to reply. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list
On 2016.08.11 19:37, Eliot Moss wrote: On 8/11/2016 7:28 PM, Thomas Taylor wrote: I tried to reply to the person who replied to my original post. I did this by sending an email to this mailing list, with "RE: " as the new subject line. The mailing list took this to be a reply to my original post, rather than a reply to the person who replied to my original post. Should I have used "RE: RE: instead? No -- you should look at the addressees in the mail and responder only to the sender, not the list, if that's what you want ... But you ASKED a different question: how to add a (presumably new) thread to the LIST. I believe you simply need to send a new message or change the subject more, and not use RE: ...Eliot Moss Also note that most email threading happens using headers which are rarely seen by humans (using the internal message id's) so if you reply to a list message, even if you change the subject completely, many email programs will still indent it under the message you replied to. Whether those headers are set correctly depends on your email software (although most seem to do the right thing.) Also note that it is not the mailing list which determines threading. It's all done at display time by the software reading the messages, whether that's your local email software (thunderbird, kmail, ...) or some web email interface. Jack -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list
On 8/11/2016 7:28 PM, Thomas Taylor wrote: I tried to reply to the person who replied to my original post. I did this by sending an email to this mailing list, with "RE: " as the new subject line. The mailing list took this to be a reply to my original post, rather than a reply to the person who replied to my original post. Should I have used "RE: RE: No -- you should look at the addressees in the mail and responder only to the sender, not the list, if that's what you want ... But you ASKED a different question: how to add a (presumably new) thread to the LIST. I believe you simply need to send a new message or change the subject more, and not use RE: ...Eliot Moss -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list
I tried to reply to the person who replied to my original post. I did this by sending an email to this mailing list, with "RE: subject line>" as the new subject line. The mailing list took this to be a reply to my original post, rather than a reply to the person who replied to my original post. Should I have used "RE: RE: subject line" instead? -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple