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[zerokull]

Watch Them Do The Stuff "Good" Boys and Girls wont Do!!!

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Re: Pay per use remailers and remailer reliability tracking.

[Ben Xain]

On 19 Dec 01 Len Sassaman wrote:
>(This isn't exact either. Failure, in this case, is pinpointed at the link
>between two remailers, rather than at a given remailer. If a user queried
>the bank and discovered that, out of a 5 remailer chain, remailers A, B,
>and C redeemed the tokens but D did not, this either means C is cheating,
>C is broken on sending, or D is broken on receiving. Further tests would
>be necessary to determine the exact nature of the failure.)

Hmmm I have an idea about this.  What if remailer C doesn't get to
cash in on his tokens unless delivery to remailer D can be confirmed?
Or maybe there is some other way to cut down on cheating.

Ben Xain
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Talley and gbroiles offline taken offline by Speakeasy,

[mattd]

I recently got a phone call from my ISP RE:The Pacifier,spitting the dummy 
letters.J.Thomson the lawyer was harassing them and calling them 
twits,stating that the FBI had been informed about me and so on.Some of the 
mans charm shines through the pacifier letters.Oh he also claimed to have 
knowledge of various depraved or naughty websites that I surfed to!
Seems if someone well heeled can hassle your ISP enough then *you*may be 
blamed for the wasted time at the ISP.
Ill send a copy of AP to Speakeasy if you send one to Useoz.com.

Re: AP Al quim

[mattd]

 >>All it claims to be is a system that allows private/corporate ownership 
of goods where decisions are made by private (versus government) decision 
and of course "free market." <<

Why is AP frowned on? It seems to fit the paradigm. Along with 
slavery,overfishing,overlogging,drugdealing and so on.

Please dont arrest me officer,Im an anarcho-capitalist!

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Re: CDR: Re: AP Al quim

[Matt Beland]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I knew this would happen, I just knew it...

On Wednesday 19 December 2001 08:02 pm, Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> > Would you mind sticking to the topic? I did not say Communism was a form
> > of Capitalism, I said Capitalism and Communism were both forms of
> > Commerce.
>
> Just checking. So you recognize a distinction between 'capitalism' and
> 'commerce' too...



Of course there's a frigging distinction. I said that the first time around. 
My problem with your statement is not that you said there was a distinction, 
it was your definition.

> > No. The belief that capitalism is the only mechanism to solve problems is
> > philosophy, not commerce, and pretty bad philosophy at that.
>
> And what makes you think capitalism isn't just that, a philosophy. 

Capitalism is not philosophy for the same reason that a dog is not cheese. 
Capitalism is a economic system, a form of commerce, and nothing more. 
Philosophy is a method of looking at the world around you and attempting to 
apply a system of rules to it. You can have a philosophy that includes 
capitalism - either positivly or negatively - but you cannot have capitalism 
*as* a philosophy. That is quite literally like saying having a nice car is 
happiness. It's not. Having a nice car might make you happy, but it is not 
itself happiness. Please go back to third grade and relearn the concept of 
symbolism.

> In fact
> 'capitalism' is just like 'communism' or 'democracy', or even
> anarcho-capitalism, in that respect. It's nothing more than the
> prioritization of goals and resources. 

No. "Capitalism" is an economic system. "Democracy" is a form of government, 
one of the classic forms as a matter of fact. "Communism" is both, but it is 
not the same thing - Communist government is essentially a form of pure 
democracy, in that all members of the commune have an equal say in the 
distribution of the resources of the commune, exactly as a pure democracy 
does. Communism as an economic system is a model which posits the 
distribution of resources (output) based purely on need, and the distribution 
of work (input) purely on ability, with relationship defined between input 
and output.

>It's distinction is that it posits
> that by making lots of money all the other problems somehow take care of
> themselves. "In the long run it'll all work out". Assuming of course there
> is still anyone around...God $$$ Fascism is what Capitalism is.

No. I already defined capitalism. You weren't paying attention. Five demerits.

What you have defined is a philosophy, a belief system which incorporates 
capitalism. The important difference is that your philosophy, in an infantile 
way, ascribes motives and emotions to the workings of capitalism. This is 
incorrect. 

> "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."
>
> Anonymous

You mean:

"When all you have is a hammer, all problems start to look like nails." 

  Samual Clemens a.k.a. Mark Twain

Attribution, Iago, attribution!

> 'Commerce' has two definitions. The first is involving the economic
> exchange of goods and services. The second is any interchange between
> individuals. 

Your first definition is doublespeak. You just stated that commerce is an 
"economic" exchange of goods and services. Economics are of course a major 
portion of commerce - in fact, if you include in "economics" emotional 
exchanges, it can be said to be equal to commerce. So your statement is 
semantically true, but valueless, since anything is of course equal to 
itself. 

Your second is a limited definition - change "individuals" to "any entity" 
and you have exactly the same definition I gave when I joined the thread, in 
contradiction to your own statement about the definition of commerce and 
capitalism.

> commerce' (and I'm speaking from an axiomatic and algorithmic
> perspective if that's not clear, not philosophical).

You can speak axiomatically, or algorithmically, but you can't do both. 
Axiomatic is philisophical, algorithmic is mathematical. The two are not 
synonymous.

> And this after all brings us right back to the original question.
>
> "Does everything have a price or not?"

Which is an interesting (if pointless) question, but it's not the original 
question. The original question is whether or not you were giving the correct 
definitions of commerce and capitalism, and of course you were not. 

Raise your hand if you're shocked.

- -- 
Matt Beland
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.rearviewmirror.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE8IXobBxcVTa6Gy5wRAvlAAJ9mhJZ8XU+d5e3jpdZPWgnZ4zT/SACeJUTV
qD/EtEXHgVYfY8ghCELtxQo=
=XtOs
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Independent News - American Taliban has no right to lawyer, insists White House

[Jim Choate]

On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > > not, let's face it, he was captured on an active field of battle - he's *not*
> > > a civilian, he's a combatant, and subject to the whims of the military.
> > 
> > Tell that to the Jews...
> 
> The _Jews_???  What the hell does this have to do with the fucking Jews?  

Just one example of arguments to the contrary of 'whims of the military'.

Poland, Warsaw.

Demonstrates a serious lack of respect for 'inalienable'.


 --


 Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind.

 Bumper Sticker

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::>/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-

Re: CDR: Re: Independent News - American Taliban has no right tolawyer, insists White House

[measl]

On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Jim Choate wrote:

> On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > not, let's face it, he was captured on an active field of battle - he's *not*
> > a civilian, he's a combatant, and subject to the whims of the military.
> 
> Tell that to the Jews...

The _Jews_???  What the hell does this have to do with the fucking Jews?  

-- 
Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...

Slashdot | IBM Builds A Limited Quantum Computer

[Jim Choate]

http://slashdot.org/articles/01/12/20/006228.shtml
-- 

 --


 Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind.

 Bumper Sticker

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::>/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-

Re: Independent News - American Taliban has no right to lawyer, insists White House

[Jim Choate]

On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> not, let's face it, he was captured on an active field of battle - he's *not*
> a civilian, he's a combatant, and subject to the whims of the military.

Tell that to the Jews...


 --


 Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind.

 Bumper Sticker

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::>/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-

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Re: MS DRM OS

[Jim Choate]

On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Michael Motyka wrote:

> dictatorship. After all, the 1st says nothing about the government
> making any laws regarding an establishment of an OS. Time to form a

The 9th & 10th do however...


 --


 Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind.

 Bumper Sticker

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::>/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-

Re: CDR: Independent News - American Taliban has no right to lawyer,insists White House

[measl]

On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Jim Choate wrote:

> http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=110994

You know I've heard of alot about this today, mostly gibberish which was at
least cleared up by the above link.  Thanks.

I find myself in an interesting position WRT John Walker.  I admire him for
having the strength of his convictions, and volunteering to fight for the
side he believes is right, in the finest American tradition.  But at the same
time, I gotta tell you, I agree that he is a prisoner of war.  Declared or
not, let's face it, he was captured on an active field of battle - he's *not*
a civilian, he's a combatant, and subject to the whims of the military.

This has got to be one of the only times I can ever remember thinking that
our military (much less Shrub) was actually *right* about something.

 -- 
Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...

TheBostonChannel.com - Helen Thomas - What's After Phase I?

[Jim Choate]

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/helenthomas/1129426/detail.html
-- 

 --


 Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind.

 Bumper Sticker

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::>/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-

Independent News - American Taliban has no right to lawyer, insists White House

[Jim Choate]

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=110994

-- 

 --


 Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind.

 Bumper Sticker

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::>/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-

Re: CDR: Re: AP Al quim

[Matt Beland]

It's not worth the effort. It's not worth the effort. It won't make a
damn bit of difference.

Oh, fuckit.

On Wed, Dec 19, 2001 at 04:57:15PM -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Sunder wrote:
> 
> > Since capitalism is a meritocracy (Those who work eat;
> 
> That is certainly a good definition of 'commerce', it is not accurate for
> 'capitalism'. Capitalism represents the belief that $$$ is the primary
> goal in life. That he who collects the most is the best. That all things
> can be reduced to a 'price'.

No.

Capitalism is a meritocracy. *Commerce* is simply a label for that class
of activities that include all forms of resource transfer from one
entity (person, company, nation, world) to another. Some of those are
meritocracies, such as capitalism. Others are not - true communism is
one example, almost any form of "planned economy", welfare. 

As for your definition of capitalism - lay the crack pipe *down*, and
slowly step away. Capitalism, pure and simple, is the idea that
competition and market forces will solve problems. Price of bread too
high? Someone will open a cheaper bakery. Too many bakeries for the
market? Those with the weakest support and poorest quality will fail.
That's all. Everything else is an add-on. It's a meritcracy because
emotion and sentiment are not supposed to enter into the equation -
either succeed or fail, based on how well you compete. Period. Reality
is not that simple, but then, reality seldom is.

> It is a faulty assumption and a warped view of humanity. As are yours.

Hello Mr. Pot, and how are you today? What's that? Who's black?

> Finis.

I'm beginning to think that Mr. Choate should never, ever, be allowed to
declare a discussion finished or claim to have the "last word".

-- 
Matt Beland
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.rearviewmirror.org

Re: ok, you win... please help

[Jim Choate]

His lists are closed. This means that somebody on his list is forwarding
the emails or else they've hacked the security at Yahoo. There are NO
*@yahoogroups.com or *@yahoo.com subscriptions through SSZ currently.
There should be no subscription of *@ssz.com to any *@yahoo.com address
either (and my logs show no evidence of receipt of traffic either way).

I've explained to this guy he is being spoofed and he just don't get it.


On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, The Silence Booking wrote:

> Ok, i am not gonna reply with a mean reply. I hope you
> can understand what is going on. Let me please
> explain, and mabey you can help me.
> 
> I have four emails I use to book bands for my
> business, these are the emails:
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Now, as of about a week ago, mabey less, i started to
> recieve stuff from CDR: Mailing list. Now, again, i
> woulnt have a problem with you sending me mabey a
> mailer aday, but, i am getting over 60 emails in my
> inbox. Just this morning, i had 132 emails in this
> email alone, which overloaded my yahoo account. I have
> looked at the Unscribing methods, and on my fathers
> grave I have. I have tried everything to be removed.I
> get replied with "Unscribe No Reconized". Now, for
> one, i just want this to please stop. I dont know how
> i got on her, mabey someone is playing a joke on me, I
> dont know, and they added me? but, again, all my
> emails are getting these CDR: replies. What can i do
> to have this stop, Again , i have tried what you said
> and its not working. I dont want any trouble from you,
> honestly, i just want to get back to business. My
> emails is the only way i communicate over the country
> with clubs and bookers and bands. If you can give me
> step my step instruction, that would help. mabey i am
> a moron, but, i do need some help here.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Steve Juliano
> 
> =
> MSM Management
> 5713 Harco St.
> Long Beach, CA 90808
> Office: (213) 760-2258
> Http://www.thesilencemusic.com
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
> 

Re: Axed Intel Man Loses E-Mail Case

[Jim Choate]

On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Sunder wrote:

> Ok, show of hands
> 
> Who here claims to be a member of CACL?
> 
> Ok, of those who claim to be members of CACL's, who claims to be a
> self-appointed CACL genius?
> 
> Tim?  Declan?  Anyone?

You should quit your day job and take this on the road.


 --


 Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind.

 Bumper Sticker

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::>/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-

Re: AP Al quim

[Jim Choate]

On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Sunder wrote:

> Since capitalism is a meritocracy (Those who work eat;

That is certainly a good definition of 'commerce', it is not accurate for
'capitalism'. Capitalism represents the belief that $$$ is the primary
goal in life. That he who collects the most is the best. That all things
can be reduced to a 'price'.

It is a faulty assumption and a warped view of humanity. As are yours.

Finis.


 --


 Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind.

 Bumper Sticker

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::>/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-

Re: Re: Speech May Not Be Free, but It's Refundable

[Sampo Syreeni]

On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Joseph Ashwood wrote:

>> You have a right to do whatever you want, UNTIL it impacts another. Then
>> you stop, or they defend themselves.
>
>Actually that's not true. Take for example the nearly nationwide ban on
>committing suicide.

Which simply goes on to demonstrate the grave difference between what is
morally permissible on the one hand and legal on the other.

Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED], tel:+358-50-5756111
student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front
openpgp: 050985C2/025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2

Re: CDR: ok, you win... please help

[The Silence Booking]

i got a emptpy reply from you...just curious on what
you were trying to send me.

Thanks,
-Steve


--- The Silence Booking <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Ok, i am not gonna reply with a mean reply. I hope
> you
> can understand what is going on. Let me please
> explain, and mabey you can help me.
> 
> I have four emails I use to book bands for my
> business, these are the emails:
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Now, as of about a week ago, mabey less, i started
> to
> recieve stuff from CDR: Mailing list. Now, again, i
> woulnt have a problem with you sending me mabey a
> mailer aday, but, i am getting over 60 emails in my
> inbox. Just this morning, i had 132 emails in this
> email alone, which overloaded my yahoo account. I
> have
> looked at the Unscribing methods, and on my fathers
> grave I have. I have tried everything to be
> removed.I
> get replied with "Unscribe No Reconized". Now, for
> one, i just want this to please stop. I dont know
> how
> i got on her, mabey someone is playing a joke on me,
> I
> dont know, and they added me? but, again, all my
> emails are getting these CDR: replies. What can i do
> to have this stop, Again , i have tried what you
> said
> and its not working. I dont want any trouble from
> you,
> honestly, i just want to get back to business. My
> emails is the only way i communicate over the
> country
> with clubs and bookers and bands. If you can give me
> step my step instruction, that would help. mabey i
> am
> a moron, but, i do need some help here.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Steve Juliano
> 
> =
> MSM Management
> 5713 Harco St.
> Long Beach, CA 90808
> Office: (213) 760-2258
> Http://www.thesilencemusic.com
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for
> all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at
> http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com


=
MSM Management
5713 Harco St.
Long Beach, CA 90808
Office: (213) 760-2258
Http://www.thesilencemusic.com

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

gezerolee for a french

[JACQUELLE jean-louis]

hello 
i would like to know where i can find "gezerolee 
box v1.01"
 
thank you

ok, you win... please help

[The Silence Booking]

Ok, i am not gonna reply with a mean reply. I hope you
can understand what is going on. Let me please
explain, and mabey you can help me.

I have four emails I use to book bands for my
business, these are the emails:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Now, as of about a week ago, mabey less, i started to
recieve stuff from CDR: Mailing list. Now, again, i
woulnt have a problem with you sending me mabey a
mailer aday, but, i am getting over 60 emails in my
inbox. Just this morning, i had 132 emails in this
email alone, which overloaded my yahoo account. I have
looked at the Unscribing methods, and on my fathers
grave I have. I have tried everything to be removed.I
get replied with "Unscribe No Reconized". Now, for
one, i just want this to please stop. I dont know how
i got on her, mabey someone is playing a joke on me, I
dont know, and they added me? but, again, all my
emails are getting these CDR: replies. What can i do
to have this stop, Again , i have tried what you said
and its not working. I dont want any trouble from you,
honestly, i just want to get back to business. My
emails is the only way i communicate over the country
with clubs and bookers and bands. If you can give me
step my step instruction, that would help. mabey i am
a moron, but, i do need some help here.

Best Regards,
Steve Juliano

=
MSM Management
5713 Harco St.
Long Beach, CA 90808
Office: (213) 760-2258
Http://www.thesilencemusic.com

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Re: CNN.com on Remailers

[Sunder]

On Mon, 17 Dec 2001, Faustine wrote:

> Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them did have nightmares about the
> Constitution. Not as a piece of paper dancing around on Mickey Mouse legs or
> whatever the hell you're getting at, but as an idea repersenting the rule
> of law that was going to lead to them being jailed for murder. Which
> unfortunately never happened, but so it goes.

One would hope that the same guys that swore an oath to serve and protect
the laws of the USA would realize that the very first such set of laws was
and is the Constitution.

Certainly power does corrupt, but you've got to think that at one point in
their lives before they became G men, they had it in mind that they were
doing something good and wholesome in working for Uncle Sam, and
protecting Americans and the American Way of Life (as defined by the
Declaration of Independance, the Bill of Rights, etc.)

Unless of course it was a choice between flippin' Big Mac's and workin'
for Uncle Sam... but I digress.. :)

They are supposed to be the good guys after all - serving the law (and by
definition the greatest law of the USA - its Constitution).  You know,
they're supposed to be the ones wearing the white cowboy hats.  The ones
that never start the gun fights, but always win them, the ones that help
old ladies cross the corral... Not the cattle rustlin', horse theiving,
lying, cussin', motherlovin', train-robbin', scandal covering up guys who
in the movies are always wearing black cowboy hats.

Seeing creatures (as in the lore of H.P. Lovecraft) such as Janet Reno,
Lon Hirouchi (sp?) and Jeff Gordon, one wants to walk up to them and ask
"Where did you go astray?  What corrupted you?  Or were you just attracted
to power like a horsefly to fresh dog shit?"


--Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---
 + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\
  \|/  :aren't security.  A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\
<--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you   \/|\/
  /|\  :masked killer, but  |don't email them, or put them on a web  \|/
 + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net 

RE: CNN.com on Remailers

[Ben Xain]

On 19 December 2001, Peter Trei wrote:
>> Ben Xain[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> In fact, spammers currently *do* send mail encrypted to the remailers'
>> keys.  It's a pain in the ass trying to filter the damn stuff out.
>First I've heard that. Frankly, I'm suprised. 
>
>One solution, which I've long advocated, is for the remailer to drop mail
>which has an unencrypted body after it's applied it's decryption key. 
>
>Provided this is an announced policy, substantially increases the 
>protection of the mail and the remop. It does mean that only people
>capable of using encryption can receive mail via the remailer, but
>that's probably a *good* thing.

I don't think that's necessarily a good idea.  It would eliminate or
reduce the anonymous remailer's usefulness for posting to newsgroups and
mailing lists.

Add to that the concept of some anonymous remailer users being
informants or corporate whistle-blowers, who will often be contacting
law enforcement or media officials and won't have access to public keys
for encryption.

Instead, it would be a good idea for remailers to find some other means
of filtering spam.  There are some great tools out there that might be
useful for this, such as nilsimsa.

Ben Xain
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: CNN.com on Remailers

[Sunder]

Last I heard, neither MAE East, nor MAE West were ever dragged into
court on co-conspiritor charges just because packets from some German
hacker kid hopped through their Cisco's.

--Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---
 + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\
  \|/  :aren't security.  A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\
<--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you   \/|\/
  /|\  :masked killer, but  |don't email them, or put them on a web  \|/
 + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net 

On Mon, 17 Dec 2001, Eugene Leitl wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Dec 2001, Trei, Peter wrote:
> 
> > If I were a remailer operator, I'm not sure I'd like this. Active
> > cooperation with another remaler operator means that if
> > he/she/it does something illegal, you could be dragged in
> 
> How is this different from the current situation? Is usage of a specific
> mainstream protocol sufficient protection from conspiracy charges? Joe Bob
> Postfixuser is hardly a remailer operator.
> 
> > on 'conspiracy' charges, regardless whether you actually
> > had any knowledge of the the other operators nefarious
> > activities.
> 
> -- Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl
> __
> ICBMTO: N48 04'14.8'' E11 36'41.2'' http://www.leitl.org
> 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3

RE: CNN.com on Remailers

[Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer]

> One solution, which I've long advocated, is for the remailer to drop 
> mail which has an unencrypted body after it's applied it's decryption 
> key.
> 
> Provided this is an announced policy, substantially increases the
> protection of the mail and the remop. It does mean that only people
> capable of using encryption can receive mail via the remailer, but   
> that's probably a *good* thing.

No, that is a terrible idea. It totally destroys the usefulness of 
remailers on Usenet and mailing lists.

"Make your system so hard to use that no one uses it. That way, no one 
will abuse it!"

Pshaw.

Academic freedom dead in Fla

[Khoder bin Hakkin]

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20011219/ts/attacks_professor_1.html

Wednesday December 19 12:19 PM ET

South Fla. Professor May Be Fired

By VICKIE CHACHERE, Associated Press Writer

TAMPA, Fla. (AP) - University of South Florida's trustees agreed
Wednesday a
Palestinian professor linked to known terrorists should be fired
for disrupting
university operations.

Sami al-Arian, a tenured computer science professor at the
public university, has
been the subject of continuous death threats because of his
support for anti-Israeli
interests. Al-Arian's appearance on a national television talk
show after the Sept. 11
attacks prompted a stream of threats against him and the
university.

Al-Arian has been on paid leave as a security risk since, but in
recent weeks his
continued employment has prompted alumni and university donors
to withdraw their
support, university President Judy Genshaft said.

Genshaft has the power to dismiss Al-Arian and has advocated the
move, but she
sought guidance from the trustees before proceeding. The next
step would be a letter
of notice of the pending dismissal that would give him 10 days
to respond.

Al-Arian, who has been at the school since 1986, was not
immediately available for
comment, according to staffers at an Islamic school and
community center that he
runs.

The recommendation prompted concern that academic freedom was
being
threatened and Al-Arian was being fired because of his unpopular
views.

Al-Arian once headed an academic think tank on Islamic issues,
World and Islam
Studies Enterprises, later connected to fund raising for the
Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
His brother-in-law, Mazen al-Najjar was jailed for three years
on secret evidence as
a threat to national security.

The think tank was raided by the FBI (news - web sites) in 1995
and its assets were
frozen. Another former head of the think tank, Ramadan Abdulah
Shallah, left it in
1995 and resurfaced as the head of a terrorist organization, the
Palestinian Islamic
Jihad.

Al-Arian has never been detained or charged with a crime, but
the institute and a
related charity for Palestinians had been accused by the FBI and
Immigration and
Naturalization Service agents of being a fund-raising front for
terrorists.

He was videotaped at some of the institute conferences a decade
ago rallying the
crowd with shouts of ``death to Israel.'' He now says he was
making a political
statement regarding the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and
what he considers
Israeli oppression, not advocating deaths of people.

Al-Arian appeared on a Sept. 26 segment of Fox News Channel's
``The O'Reilly
Factor'' and was questioned about his links to known terrorists
as the television
screen displayed the university's logo. A barrage of threats by
telephone and e-mail
the next day forced university police to shut down the computer
science department
where Al-Arian worked, a day later he was banned from campus.

RE: CNN.com on Remailers

[Trei, Peter]

> Ben Xain[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> 
> > On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, David Honig wrote:
> > > Can't spam be repelled by not forwarding email not encrypted to
> > > the remailer's key?
> 
> 
> In fact, spammers currently *do* send mail encrypted to the remailers'
> keys.  It's a pain in the ass trying to filter the damn stuff out.
> 
> Ben Xain
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
First I've heard that. Frankly, I'm suprised. 

One solution, which I've long advocated, is for the remailer to drop mail
which has an unencrypted body after it's applied it's decryption key. 

Provided this is an announced policy, substantially increases the 
protection of the mail and the remop. It does mean that only people
capable of using encryption can receive mail via the remailer, but
that's probably a *good* thing.

Peter Trei








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Thank You.

Re: Digital Angel gets under the skin after all

[Michael Motyka]

"Roy M. Silvernail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote :
>
>http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-121901chips.story
>
>Applied Digital Solutions is pursuing the implantable chip after all.
>It's not the GPS-trackable unit yet, but more like the doggie chips.
>The L.A. Times story says it holds "up to 60 words" in one place,
>and "several sentences of information" in another.
>
>Interesting that they plan to be to market in South America in 90
>days (because of fewer required regulatory permissions).  They say
>they expect FDA and FCC approval here by midyear.
>
>Anyone want to get barcoded?
>
No thanks. In defenerence to historical precendent I would prefer a
tatoo on my forearm. I would tolerate an updated version that consisted
of 10 hex digits - in deference to the modern computer re-evolution.

They're warming the ovens...

>--
>Roy M. Silvernail
>
Mike

Re: CNN.com on Remailers

[Ben Xain]

On 18 December 2001, Meyer Wolfsheim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, David Honig wrote:
> > Can't spam be repelled by not forwarding email not encrypted to
> > the remailer's key?
> 
> Who is to say that spammers won't use remailer clients that automatically
> encrypt to the remailers' keys?
> 
> Using remailer clients should be *easy*. Saying "this is too hard for the
> average spammer to figure out" isn't acceptable.

In fact, spammers currently *do* send mail encrypted to the remailers'
keys.  It's a pain in the ass trying to filter the damn stuff out.

Ben Xain
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Digital Angel gets under the skin after all

[Roy M. Silvernail]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-121901chips.story

Applied Digital Solutions is pursuing the implantable chip after all.  
It's not the GPS-trackable unit yet, but more like the doggie chips.  
The L.A. Times story says it holds "up to 60 words" in one place, 
and "several sentences of information" in another.

Interesting that they plan to be to market in South America in 90 
days (because of fewer required regulatory permissions).  They say 
they expect FDA and FCC approval here by midyear.

Anyone want to get barcoded?

--
Roy M. Silvernail
Proprietor, scytale.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Encrypted Distributed Filesystem With Linux?

[Gilles Gravier]

Hi!

http://www.cyber-ark.com/ ?

Gilles.

Jei wrote:
> 
> With over > 2GB in size and on 2.4 Linux kernels?
> 
> Say, an 80gb filesystem image that is encrypted with XXX over
> a loop device YYY to a filesystem image that resides on ZZZ.
> 
> Is there any way to do this or something similar to it?
> 
> I browsed the net but PPDD + CODA doesn't quite seem to get me there.
> Neither does SFS or CFS or TCFS or any of the other alternatives I found.
> 
> The freenet clones seem all too insecure and freenet is
> just a piece of java code. Not suitable for any *real* use.
> 
> All links and suggestions are very welcome..
> 
> -
> The Cryptography Mailing List
> Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
Gilles Gravier  -  Platform Infrastructure - SDN  -  EMEA
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sun Microsystems
Phone: +41 22 7077856 2 rue de Jargonnant
Fax: +41 86 0794351051 CH-1207 Geneva
PGP Key ID: 0xF5F60C45Switzerland
My Current Location is:   N:046°12'03.8" - E:006°09'31.9"


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

IRS Agent Goes Berserk, Cops refuse to prosecute, and AP candidates

[Major Variola (ret)]

At 01:17 PM 12/19/01 +0200, Jei wrote:
>-- Forwarded message --
>Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:25:41 -0800
>From: Deon Masker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: ddDeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: [Conspiracy-Theory] Fw: [Renegades_Coalition] IRS Agent Goes
Berserk,
> Assaults Citizen, by Pat Shannan
>

You know, historically, when there is no reliable justice system,
society gets blood feuds,
etc.   When the justice system is unreliable for sheeple but reliable
for a special class,
maybe AP *does* have a future.  Meanwhile the traditional bag of cash &
friend of a friend
will have to do.

Re: Reg - Linotype copyright action on Adobe-format fonts

[David Honig]

At 11:47 PM 12/18/01 -0800, Petro wrote:
>   That would be utterly pointless (no pun intended). The value of 
>Postscript is that it *isn't* a set of pixels.

No, it wouldn't be pointless.  Postscript is not the only way
to print.

It is the equivalent of using a function that approximates the sine()
function to generate a table of trig values.  The function's code
is copyrighted, but the table of values isn't.  And yes, there
are still uses for tables of trig values.

Re: MS DRM OS

[David Honig]

At 12:38 AM 12/19/01 +, Graham Lally wrote:
>Ralph Wallis wrote:
>
>> On Monday, 17 Dec 2001 at 07:58, Michael Motyka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>>Could someone who knows more than I do explain to me why this MS "IP" is
>>>anything other than making the owner of a PC unable to have root access
>>>to their own hardware/OS? If so it seems to be an idea unworthy of
>>>protection from lawyers and men with guns.
>>>
>> 
>> A more correct analogy is with speed limiters on cars.
>
>
>On your own roads. And the car maker tells you where you can go to. And 
>which route you have to take. And where you can end up. And then forces 
>you to pay for a map.
>

And tells you which brand of gasoline you can burn under penalty of
law for using others.

And treats go-carts as circumvention devices.

Re: Steal This Essay 1: Content Is a Pure Public Good

[Marcel Popescu]

From: "Tim May" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> This guy's essay is really good. And it only took him a few minutes!

Ok, WHAT essay? You just quoted a few lines, attributed them to Tim May
(hello???), and added an URL to a site "currently in construction".

Mark

Re: Axed Intel Man Loses E-Mail Case

[Sunder]

Ok, show of hands

Who here claims to be a member of CACL?

Ok, of those who claim to be members of CACL's, who claims to be a
self-appointed CACL genius?

Tim?  Declan?  Anyone?

--Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---
 + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\
  \|/  :aren't security.  A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\
<--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you   \/|\/
  /|\  :masked killer, but  |don't email them, or put them on a web  \|/
 + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net 

On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Jim Choate wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Gil Hamilton wrote:
> 
> > It's interesting to note how much more pleasant Choate was in his
> > early days on the list.  In those days, he was not so intent on
> > showing everyone that he was an authority on all possible subjects.
> 
> That was before I knew what kind of sharks swim in this pool. You don't
> like my interaction then change yours. I treat you people the way you
> treated me back then. I didn't start it. Go talk to Tim, Delcan, and the
> rest of the self-appointed CACL geniuses.
> 
> You reap what you sow.
> 
> 
>  --
> 
> 
>  Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind.
> 
>  Bumper Sticker
> 
>The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
>Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::>/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
>-~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
> 

Re: Axed Intel Man Loses E-Mail Case

[Sunder]

Sigh... I wonder if there is anything inChoate doesn't misunderstand  
We may never know...

--Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---
 + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\
  \|/  :aren't security.  A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\
<--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you   \/|\/
  /|\  :masked killer, but  |don't email them, or put them on a web  \|/
 + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net 

On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:

> Choate misunderstands journalism. When writing about an appeals court 

Re: AP Al quim, Tim May Torn asunder.

[Sunder]

That question was not posed to you.  Unless you are Jim Bell, fuck off.

--Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---
 + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\
  \|/  :aren't security.  A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\
<--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you   \/|\/
  /|\  :masked killer, but  |don't email them, or put them on a web  \|/
 + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net 

On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, mattd wrote:

> Sunder>>...you have to agree that you also have no problem with capitalism.

Re: AP Al quim

[Sunder]

On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Jim Choate wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Sunder wrote:
>  
> > So from your reply, I'll assume the answer to my "So are you finally
> > evolving?" question is still No.
> 
> Sorry, you can't imply anything other than what is openly stated in my
> commentary. Implicatives will bite you in the butt.

I'll take that to still mean "No" :)
 
> > I, and everyone in the world, is aware that commerce != capitalism,
> 
> Not hardly.

To whom does "Not hardly" refer to exactly?  Care to point the individual
names of those who are not aware that commerce != capitalism so that we
can both ask them?
 
> > and that you are avoiding the question.
> 
> And EXACTLY what question might that be? You ramble so much it gets hard
> to follow what you're talking about NOW.

Deja Vue.  Now if you'd only see yourself through that lens.

The question I asked you was in this quote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Sunder wrote:

> Oh, you mean like the parable of the ants and the grasshopper? Where the
> ants get the results of the work they put into it, and the grasshopper
> who didn't do any work starves and freezes in the winter?
>
> So now you're saying that the very thing you've had a problem in the
> past with because it's capitalism is now a good thing.


Which was in response to this message:

On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Jim Choate wrote:

> Don't confuse having a high standard of excellence with simple egotism
> (which is the majority of the cases with both your examples).
>
> And no, a meritocracy isn't disriminatory. You get what you put into it,
> not what somebody else thinks it's worth.


Since capitalism is a meritocracy (Those who work eat;  Those who don't
starve) and you've stated that meritocracies are good, are you at long
last saying that capitalism is a good thing?


--Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---
 + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\
  \|/  :aren't security.  A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\
<--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you   \/|\/
  /|\  :masked killer, but  |don't email them, or put them on a web  \|/
 + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net 

Re: CNN.com on Remailers

[Steven Furlong]

David Honig wrote:
> 
> At 02:42 PM 12/18/01 -0800, Meyer Wolfsheim wrote:
> >On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, David Honig wrote:
> >
> >> Can't spam be repelled by not forwarding email not encrypted to
> >> the remailer's key?
> >
> >Who is to say that spammers won't use remailer clients that automatically
> >encrypt to the remailers' keys?
> 
> Yes they could.
> 
> >
> >Using remailer clients should be *easy*. Saying "this is too hard for the
> >average spammer to figure out" isn't acceptable.
> 
> The most commonly held point of view that I've
> perceived on this list is that spammers are too lazy/stupid
> to do this -or even add a simple string token to a line.

To maximize their efficiency *, spammers want to send the same message
to everyone on a large list of addresses, with a small amount of effort
and attention on their part. Any special effort necessary to get the
spam to a given address is not a worthwhile ROI. (And it's probably not
worth the effort to remove the address from the list, either.) This is
also the point behind the hashcash proposal: the sender's machine has to
burn a certain number of cycles to make a hash which will convince the
recipient to accept each message. **

* Efficiency is the useful output divided by the effort input.
"Efficiency" for a useless endeavor such as spamming is problematical.

** Eric, if you're reading this, I really am putting some work in on
this, just not at a high enough rate to produce any output. Efficiency
of 0.

-- 
Steve Furlong, Computer Condottiere Have GNU, will travel

Licenced to Program?

[Jei]

http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-8145809.html?tag=tp_pr

Enough already! Ban programming.
@ Articles Dec 16 2001 - 02:54 EST 
acideye writes:  


No I don't agree with or endorse in any way this statement, but to anyone
who would like an insight into the minds (often closed minds) of the
general public who have been manipulated by the mass media into almost
decleration of war on Hackers and other such sub-cultures of hacking. 
This article is from Adequacy.org and as such copyright and the rest of
it. 


Programming computers is, for practically everyone, something done far
away in exotic software engineering facilities by a priesthood of
ultra-specialized, half-mad obsessive-compulsives. This is as it should
be, and it is where we get the software we use every day to do our online
banking, send email, and get productive work done. Though few normal
people have any experience of it, or know anyone who does it, there is
another kind of programming performed outside this legitimate sphere, one
that you probably assumed was illegal, but shockingly, is not. 
This other kind of programming also affects us every day, but negatively,
as a continuous series of massive disruptions to the worldwide economy in
the form of viruses, in the form of important and useful computer services
being sabotaged with denial-of-service, in the form of defacement attacks,
and in the form of substantially higher prices for all sorts of
intellectual property such as software, DVD movies and music on CD, all
due to piracy. I'm talking about "hacking" of course. It is the evil dark
side to all the good that computers have brought us, and we are all sick
of it. The time has come to put a stop to "hacking", because we can no
longer tolerate the damage "hackers" cause, and the potential risk of
terrorism when, not if, "hackers" go to work for such forces of mayhem as
have begun an onslaught of terror against not just the United States, but
Western Civilization's freedom to be loose and decadent in general. 

For a time, our society tolerated "hackers" because they promised that
something useful would come of their shady and secretive tinkering. Yet we
have had nothing but a harvest of bitter fruit from "hackers", and it is
now time to pull the plug. It is time to ban all unlicensed computer
programming, and take steps to ensure that no one outside of government,
select universities, and state-sanctioned private-sector corporate
software engineering facilities is given the knowledge, skills, or means
to write or compile computer code of any kind. Amateur or hobbyist
computer programming has grown from a minor annoyance to a major social
disease, and it simply can no longer be tolerated. 
Although ordinary decent people will find this suggestion to be obvious to
the point of banality -- in fact, I'm sure many of you are surprised that
amateur computer programming was ever legal! -- many of those who
associate themselves with the "hacker community" will bridle at the
suggestion. Strictly as an exercise, it would perhaps be diverting to
entertain some of their more obvious objections. 

The first cry in defense of hobbyists toying with this dangerous
technology is that hackers have already proven their worth by producing a
valuable piece of software -- namely, the Apache web server. Others would
even claim that more than one useful program has been written in the
garages and and lonely bedrooms of hobbyists. There are two delusions at
work here. 

One of these delusions is that any of the Open Source applications that
have found some utility in business and industry were written by amateurs.
The truth is that Apache began it's life as the work of professional
coders employed by Amazon.com, and as any software engineer you want to
ask can tell you, nothing of value was added by anyone but professionals.
In truth, the work of the gainfully employed programmers on this project
was often interrupted and even sabotaged by the ham-fisted meddling of the
teenage wanna-be's and self-styled "gurus" who have accumulated around
professional Open Source projects like so many leeches and barnacles. This
episode alone demonstrates that if there is anything good to come out of
Open Source methodology, it will only be helped along by the removal of
dilettantes from the picture. Indeed, once the "hackers" have been
outlawed, Open Source will very likely reach new heights of utility and
quality, and perhaps even fulfill the promise of greatness that Open
Source advocates have been making for years. 

The other delusion, or I should say piece of misinformation, that has been
perpetrated by "hackers" is that there are many other "tools" that have
been created by hackers and gifted to a grateful world by our benevolent
hobbyists. What about Emacs, for example? What about it? Emacs was
originally created at MIT, a trusted part of the US military research
establishment. Obviously, such facilities and their (suitably cleared)
employees will never be banned.

"...all these things that shall come to pass."

[mattd]

Subject: Proffr1 the Illuminator.

Born 1955 died 2091,proffr1 the illuminator is the eco-anark 
apostle,international insane saint and punk patron of
Anarchia.He was the first to institute global democratic libertarian 
socialism as crypto-anarchy.
The anarchists mainline that the faith was preached by the apostles bart 
and thaddeus.Thaddeus
especially.(thanks chief!)The story has been taken over somewhat by the 
ameroanachists.Their land
being the first to turn crypto-anarchist.In their version proffr1 was the 
son of a panthein anark
who murdered king kong 2 and then drowned while crossing the river 
murri.Proffr1 was sepporated and baptized
in the fosters by a surfragette who acted in accordance a 
tele-vision.Proffr1 married, then soon after smarted from
his wife who became a pro,singer,dancer,actress and dowager empress on 
rollerskates.
Proffr1 had travelled to americana where he refused to take part in human 
sacrifice ordered by
king george.He further enraged the king by declaring himself an anarchist 
so when king george
found out proffs father slew king kong he had him thrown into a 
supermax.There he was tortured in
various ways with christian video nasties and bad food and coffee.The only 
thing that kept proffr1
sane was when he befriended a rat who passed messages between cells.Proffr1 
was also sustained
in his time of trial by a pious widow who bought him psychodalek drugs and 
pron and daphne.
Meanwhile the tyrant george had gone from bad to worse.A holy virgin who 
resists the crazy kings
depraved advances is martyred.Rhizsome plays a great part in this story as 
she is driven mad
by the sadistic lust of the bloodthirsty vampire king george the 
wicked.Finally as the crowds recoil
in complete horror,the kings brother see's that he is mad and prays for 
help.At the very moment of doom he see's
a vision off cape canaveral that only proffr can save king george.Proffr1 
is bought from the
dungeons, and placed before the bestial george, proceeds to exorcise the 
evil from him.
His logical,precise and poetic lucidity charm the entire court.The long 
discourse of the anabasis
of proffr1 becomes required holovid viewing and outrates anal gang bang 
6.on channel 99.
Following the fantastic conversion of a boar into a peacable learned 
primate,proffr1 moves
around the kingdom in style staking unregenerate KG wannabees and larrabees 
that refuse enlightenment.There
are suprisingly few as excited web surfers and SMSers spread the word of 
his and Rhizsomes coming.The contrast
could not be greater as if lemon were suddenly squeezed into full cream 
milk.The false gods
and werewolves are driven into caucus were they perish beneath a 
cypher/sword and mentalstorm.Eventually the movement leads to the collapse 
of govts worldwide.Truly it is written that we were in darkness before 
knowing of the cypher/sword of crypto-anarchy wielded by mentalstorm 
prophet and honorary professor1, the Illuminator.

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[Spy News] FBI expands hunt on warez scene (fwd)

[Jei]

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 01:45:33 +0100
From: Mario Profaca <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "[Spy News]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Spy News] FBI expands hunt on warez scene

http://www.neowin.net/comments.php?id=2023

FBI expands hunt on warez scene

Posted by me101 on 07:51 EST on 18 Dec 2001 - 12:51 GMT | 25 comments

Found this over on GeekNews, pointing to a story over on New Order,
regarding some additional information in relation to the FBI's ongoing warez
raids.

The FBI has, in the past week, been involved in raids against WAREZ groups,
including 90+ scene group senior members and leaders in US, Canada, Britain,
Australia, Norway, 2 cracking groups in Poland. New raids are expected in
the next days or so..

Now We've got confirmed insider information, that four major efnet servers
are currently running in debug mode, which enables them to see ALL private
traffic, like private chat, passwords sent to channel protection bots,
messages, etc. and the information is being filtered and sent to the FBI,
which requested this. Currently, a big EDU server, and .ORG server.




---
This mail, sent by Mario Profaca, is clean, certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.309 / Virus Database: 170 - Release Date: 17. 12. 01


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constitutes a 'fair use' of the copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of 
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IRS Agent Goes Berserk, Assaults Citizen, by Pat Shannan

[Jei]

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:25:41 -0800
From: Deon Masker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ddDeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Conspiracy-Theory] Fw: [Renegades_Coalition] IRS Agent Goes Berserk,
 Assaults Citizen, by Pat Shannan

Disclaimer:
~~For entertainment or educational purposes only~~
[Title 17 U.S.C. section 107]
Should this email has reached you in error, please return
it with "removePatriotList" in the subject line or just click here:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=removePatriot/88L


- Original Message -
From: "
To: <
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:42 AM
Subject: IRS Agent Goes Berserk, Assaults Citizen, by Pat Shannan


>From the news Desk at YACE Freedom 91.9 FM Help spread the news!
Long Live the Republic, Death to the new world order!




IRS Agent Goes Berserk, Assaults Citizen Local Cops, Sheriff Refuse to
Prosecute
http://www.4bypass.com/feature.htm

by Pat Shannan Dec. 2001

A sign spotted recently over the door of one IRS office says: "Seizure
Fever ­ Catch It!" Word has it that the IRS agent with the best seizure
rate for the week is rewarded with a brief respite and other job "perks."
Apparently the pressure to hit his weekly plunder bonus was more than one
revenuer could stand, and when he was asked to show the law justifying his
actions, he blew a head gasket.

The Oct. 2 incident occurred when Wiley Davis, an IRS Team Manager from
Colorado, became agitated with Las Vegas resident Ken Nicholson, 37, during
a hearing to discuss an IRS lien against some property owned by Nicholson's
friend, Keith Milbourn. Davis, 45, had been brought in from Denver
specifically for the Milbourn case.

The Las Vegas Tribune first reported the altercation as arising from a tax
dispute involving an IRS lien against some property belonging to Ken
Nicholson. This was inaccurate. Nicholson had gone along as counsel for his
friends, Keith and Shawna Milbourn, and as a witness to the proceedings. It
was Milbourn's case that was in dispute. They had also taken along court
reporter Beatrice Conner, who caught the whole incident on audiotape.

Nicholson had Power of Attorney to speak for Milbourn, 32. Davis was
assisted by a female agent. Throughout the hearing, the two men made it
clear that they were not going to take Davis' word for anything and would
need actual documentation to prove the IRS' stand. Finally, Nicholson said
that they would be willing to pay whatever the IRS claimed Milbourn owed if
Davis could:

1) Produce a Notice and Demand for the tax; and

2) Give a Code Section which made Milbourn liable.

Nicholson said, and witnesses as well as the tape recording concur, that
Davis did not attempt to produce that evidence but instead became visibly
angry, lost his self-control and attacked Nicholson.

Offense is the Best Defense

"Out of nowhere," said Nicholson, "he jumped up out of his chair and came
around the table, grabbed my chair, and began bouncing it up and down. He
shoved it forward and pushed me toward the table. [In the process,] my legs
came apart and were straddling the arm of the chair. With three or four
quick jerks, he yanked the arm of the chair upward and into my groin. Then
he grabbed me and began to physically evict me from the room."

Security officers came in and stopped the melee at the Oakley Boulevard
office of the IRS in Las Vegas.

Court stenographer Beatrice Conner was shocked speechless when Nicholson
was knocked to the floor. "It was totally without provocation," she said.
"He (Davis) was so angry and violent that if he had had a gun, he would
have pulled it out!"

Keith Milbourn, who witnessed the whole meeting and scuffle, gave more
details:

"By the time we called the police there were about ten people in the
hallway including other agents, the witnesses and security guards,"
Milbourn told us, adding that the other IRS agent who was in the room,
Renee Swells, was "surprised and shocked" by Davis' action. Swells was
unavailable for comment.

Milbourn and Nicholson had called 911 "and the cops arrived in five minutes
all gung-ho and ready to arrest Ken. However, when they heard the tape
played back, they all fell silent, not knowing what to do."

So the officers did nothing. No arrest was made.

Both men said they tried to report the incident to the U.S. attorney's
office, as well as the FBI, but both Justice Department entities declined
to take their report. The same proved to be true at the county level with
Sheriff Jerry Keller.

"I know that if I would have assaulted the IRS agent, I would be sitting in
jail right now," Nicholson said. "But because the IRS agent is the one who
assaulted me, Metro [Las Vegas Police] only took a statement and let him
go."

Hidden Ball Trick

When the Metro police came out, Nicholson gave a voluntary statement backed
up by his witnesses and the tape recording. He was told that he

IRS Agent Goes Berserk, Assaults Citizen, by Pat Shannan

[Jei]

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:25:41 -0800
From: Deon Masker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ddDeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Conspiracy-Theory] Fw: [Renegades_Coalition] IRS Agent Goes Berserk,
 Assaults Citizen, by Pat Shannan

Disclaimer:
~~For entertainment or educational purposes only~~
[Title 17 U.S.C. section 107]
Should this email has reached you in error, please return
it with "removePatriotList" in the subject line or just click here:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=removePatriot/88L


- Original Message -
From: "
To: <
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:42 AM
Subject: IRS Agent Goes Berserk, Assaults Citizen, by Pat Shannan


>From the news Desk at YACE Freedom 91.9 FM Help spread the news!
Long Live the Republic, Death to the new world order!




IRS Agent Goes Berserk, Assaults Citizen Local Cops, Sheriff Refuse to
Prosecute
http://www.4bypass.com/feature.htm

by Pat Shannan Dec. 2001

A sign spotted recently over the door of one IRS office says: "Seizure
Fever ­ Catch It!" Word has it that the IRS agent with the best seizure
rate for the week is rewarded with a brief respite and other job "perks."
Apparently the pressure to hit his weekly plunder bonus was more than one
revenuer could stand, and when he was asked to show the law justifying his
actions, he blew a head gasket.

The Oct. 2 incident occurred when Wiley Davis, an IRS Team Manager from
Colorado, became agitated with Las Vegas resident Ken Nicholson, 37, during
a hearing to discuss an IRS lien against some property owned by Nicholson's
friend, Keith Milbourn. Davis, 45, had been brought in from Denver
specifically for the Milbourn case.

The Las Vegas Tribune first reported the altercation as arising from a tax
dispute involving an IRS lien against some property belonging to Ken
Nicholson. This was inaccurate. Nicholson had gone along as counsel for his
friends, Keith and Shawna Milbourn, and as a witness to the proceedings. It
was Milbourn's case that was in dispute. They had also taken along court
reporter Beatrice Conner, who caught the whole incident on audiotape.

Nicholson had Power of Attorney to speak for Milbourn, 32. Davis was
assisted by a female agent. Throughout the hearing, the two men made it
clear that they were not going to take Davis' word for anything and would
need actual documentation to prove the IRS' stand. Finally, Nicholson said
that they would be willing to pay whatever the IRS claimed Milbourn owed if
Davis could:

1) Produce a Notice and Demand for the tax; and

2) Give a Code Section which made Milbourn liable.

Nicholson said, and witnesses as well as the tape recording concur, that
Davis did not attempt to produce that evidence but instead became visibly
angry, lost his self-control and attacked Nicholson.

Offense is the Best Defense

"Out of nowhere," said Nicholson, "he jumped up out of his chair and came
around the table, grabbed my chair, and began bouncing it up and down. He
shoved it forward and pushed me toward the table. [In the process,] my legs
came apart and were straddling the arm of the chair. With three or four
quick jerks, he yanked the arm of the chair upward and into my groin. Then
he grabbed me and began to physically evict me from the room."

Security officers came in and stopped the melee at the Oakley Boulevard
office of the IRS in Las Vegas.

Court stenographer Beatrice Conner was shocked speechless when Nicholson
was knocked to the floor. "It was totally without provocation," she said.
"He (Davis) was so angry and violent that if he had had a gun, he would
have pulled it out!"

Keith Milbourn, who witnessed the whole meeting and scuffle, gave more
details:

"By the time we called the police there were about ten people in the
hallway including other agents, the witnesses and security guards,"
Milbourn told us, adding that the other IRS agent who was in the room,
Renee Swells, was "surprised and shocked" by Davis' action. Swells was
unavailable for comment.

Milbourn and Nicholson had called 911 "and the cops arrived in five minutes
all gung-ho and ready to arrest Ken. However, when they heard the tape
played back, they all fell silent, not knowing what to do."

So the officers did nothing. No arrest was made.

Both men said they tried to report the incident to the U.S. attorney's
office, as well as the FBI, but both Justice Department entities declined
to take their report. The same proved to be true at the county level with
Sheriff Jerry Keller.

"I know that if I would have assaulted the IRS agent, I would be sitting in
jail right now," Nicholson said. "But because the IRS agent is the one who
assaulted me, Metro [Las Vegas Police] only took a statement and let him
go."

Hidden Ball Trick

When the Metro police came out, Nicholson gave a voluntary statement backed
up by his witnesses and the tape recording. He was told that h

May the dog

[mattd]

In the film "wag the dog",the producer who wants the credit gets the 
chop.One nod from Conrad and "jesus,mary and joseph!,dustin hoffman gets 
the chop.I was thinking about the crook dustin played in "straight 
time",while the CJ drama blew up.He's a gritty little bugger who gets 
rousted by a pudgy PO and blamed for a neighbors roach,busted back to county.
When finally released,after the entire demeaning process,he takes fantastic 
revenge,cuffing the ugly PO to a centre strip light pole with his pants 
down! Its quite a good film with teresa russell and harry dean stanton,it 
looks better in B+W.too.
We may learn a lot from hollywood.Like the producer who made two memo's for 
each movie,butt covering as artform.
Then theres "the player".threats persist after you kill david Kahane? Dont 
sweat on it,script it!
In spite of there not being many good movies lately,the assassination 
politics story is writing itself.kurt prochnow might be better to play me 
than mal.G.There's a distinct lack of luv interest so far and this is a 
fatal weakness I propose to try and remedy ASAP.Honeytrap me mossad,pleeze!
We know from certain *barium* emissions that the state is watching us in 
deadly earnest.We also know by timmies smug self satisfaction.(thats 
getting beyond obnoxious timmy btw) that he,at least,thinks *its*TM is a 
slam dunk.OK lets ask some ladies in the room.We all have to share the 
world and according to agent faustine should worry about each others rights.
Im not allergic to that idea,as long as we all know that truth and rec 
commissions wont cut it, we should come to some arrangements to ease into 
anarchy with the minimal amount of future shock.-For the sake of the 
children.-Im asking jessica S,dorothy if shes not to busy and mary (fbi) to 
come out from behind the curtain.(you dont want to be mistaken for rats,do 
you?) Come out and lets play with these concepts,boil them down for the 
dumb dumbs in high places and farm them out to the PR firms,SF writers,star 
trek script writers and hairdressers that shape the consciousness of world 
culture,such as it is.Theres no future in negativity,fortunately!

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Non-political, so probably off-topic for CP :_),

[mattd]

http://www.business-humanrights.org/China.htm the internet great wall of 
china,gulag to rival the US,state murders,Tibet,etc,etc,etc...measl your 
worse than jamesd,you might get a spotters fee,though.

I trust your aware of repression in china,nortels contribution and 
assassination politics.This is re.http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/ 
non-political my ass.

Re: Steal This Essay 1: Content Is a Pure Public Good

[mattd]

I found youse some text warez at ambulanzen.Enjoy!

Subject: On Negativity Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Future of Negativity
"All advice is bad, but good advice is fatal." Oscar Wilde
The future has become completely predictable; a script that is being worked
through from A to Z. The Plan has finally prevailed. There are merely some
anomalies, corrections that have not yet been made. All arguments are for the
following of the prescribed route. It is true that there are always a 
number of
simultaneous scenarios that are partially overlapping and partially mutually
exclusive. But they have one thing in common: they are all true. Will it be an
ecological catastrophe or an atom bomb? Whichever you request. Humanitarian
disaster or military defeat? The choice is yours. Will it be abstract or
figurative? Whichever way the wind blows. Brazil or China? All options have 
been
thought through. All the right specialists have been found and their 
reports are
ready and waiting to be implemented. The field of vision has narrowed to one
perspective, wherever you look. There are no surprises, only possibilities.
Reread Musil. Even the biggest problems (AIDS in Africa, Bin Laden in
Afghanistan, CCP in the WTO, Bush in Washington) will never be more
than entrances to new markets.
At the moment they appear, all phenomena already contain the structure of this
model. All that remains to us is the dull task of unravelling the software
underneath. The number of programmes is extremely limited. The hermeneutic and
semiotic reading of the world puts up a smokescreen which manages to 
enchant us
again and again with its wealth of shapes, turns and suggestions of depth, but
alas, in fact it is all a bit simpler than that. The theory of difference 
is no
more than a cloth for the bleeding in the "abimes superficiels." Unbearable 
(and
irresistible) simplicity is no longer really distinguishable from banality, 
and
this sends many a public intellectual fleeing to the safe haven of
interpretation. Through this mechanism, an originally critical practice like
cultural studies has slipped away into a safe, meaningless sketch of image
culture. "Visual culture" has degenerated into a profession with prospects. 
This
is how modelistic thinking works: once you get it, you can apply it to 
anything.
We locate this suprahistory when we train our gaze on the sub-human level. The
drama of micropolitics: the pension plan is in place by the time you're 21. 
Try
and get out from under that. A little heli-skiing won't do it. Total 
burnout at
26 seems like it might help, but it turns out later to have been just a
sabbatical. RSI at 14? Just as easily. What else is the future but paying off
mortgages and life insurance? The secret collective longing for a market 
crash,
i.e. a world war, remains a last, authentic expression of the longing to 
make a
clean sweep, to undergo an adventure and then start all over. The hippies
supplied this model. There's no running aground, lost ideals or middle-aged
cynicism in this case  that would have been the fall-of-man model. 
Yesterday's
hippies are today's crisis managers, guiding whole peoples at a time through
their dips. They work according to the dynamic model, which uses resistance to
get ahead by systematically improvising. In this model, things must go 
wrong for
one to become a success. This is in contrast to the compulsory positivism that
three-quarters of the world must disavow to preserve its good humour. Hippie
thinking is happy with any opposition and derives its energy from it.
Negativity rejects every model; that much is clear. But is repudiation, 
however
elegant or brutal, not itself also a model? Negativity distinguishes itself
rigorously from deconstructivism. Deconstruction is an installation CD-ROM 
that
always works. But the software's ability to anticipate is nil. Something 
must be
built up before it can be taken apart, thus the orientation to the past. The
nice thing about this model, however, is its youthful elan in believing 
that the
future can be predicted. That is the game Soros plays. His theory of
reflectivity is based on a solid foundation of European negativity. This is 
why
he can stay "ahead of the wave",most often, while legions of market 
analysts get caught in
their own sales speeches, whose nonsense they can never understand, since 
belief
in their spiels is precisely the product they're selling. And non-monetary
negativity, where is that? Who can enjoy the certainty of decline, and benefit
from it? What a riddle! But one thing is sure: there will always be enough 
that
can be destroyed. "As long as there is death, there is hope."
The future of thinking, the development of forms of expression, planetary
architecture, these are all projects of others. Negativity is an experimental
attitude, an exercise in remembering, followed now and then by a short 
series of
outbursts, and then a long period of hiding inside normality. Optimism can 
turn
into gloominess. On the other han

Re: Steal This Essay 1: Content Is a Pure Public Good

[Tim May]

This guy's essay is really good. And it only took him a few minutes!



> Originally published in TimBITS#602/22-Oct-01; see 
>  for more information.
>
> Steal This Essay 1: Content Is a Pure Public Good
> by Tim May
>
> Steal this essay, or, why these sorts of essays represent the future of 
> all publishing. Hint: I'm not getting paid for them.
>
> "Freedom of the press belongs to those who own one." - A.J. Liebling
>
> If you or anyone you know has ever or will ever produce content 
> (writing, music, video, etc.) and hopes to get paid for it, you should 
> be afraid.
>
> To see why, start by downloading (for free, of course) one of the 
> numerous peer-to-peer file sharing systems such as Aimster, LimeWire, 
> and eDonkey2000 that have emerged hydra-like to take the place of 
> Napster, whose head was cut off
.



--Tim May
"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any 
member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to 
others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient 
warrant." --John Stuart Mill

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INFORMATION
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Steal This Essay 1: Content Is a Pure Public Good

[Steve Schear]

Originally published in TidBITS#602/22-Oct-01; see 
 for more information.

Steal This Essay 1: Content Is a Pure Public Good
by Dan Kohn

Steal this essay, or, why these sorts of essays represent the future of all 
publishing. Hint: I'm not getting paid for them.

"Freedom of the press belongs to those who own one." - A.J. Liebling

If you or anyone you know has ever or will ever produce content (writing, 
music, video, etc.) and hopes to get paid for it, you should be afraid.

To see why, start by downloading (for free, of course) one of the numerous 
peer-to-peer file sharing systems such as Aimster, LimeWire, and 
eDonkey2000 that have emerged hydra-like to take the place of Napster, 
whose head was cut off this spring by the Recording Industry Association of 
America (RIAA). You will find that much the same selection of MP3 music 
that was on Napster is still available for free, as well as being 
accompanied by more and more movies ("ripped" directly from DVDs), and 
nearly all other forms of content, from Shakespeare's works to hard core 
adult materials.







What you will not find - even if you are the RIAA - is anyone to sue. 
Because unlike Napster, there are no companies underlying the software 
infrastructure, no servers to confiscate, no officers on whom to serve 
papers. The next generation of peer-to-peer clients relies on no central 
infrastructure whatsoever, and is being developed by a loose knit group of 
developers spread around the world, all donating their significant efforts 
without any real hope of getting paid for their work. All of the developers 
are men - or teenage boys - and though not following the typical societal 
track toward prestige, they are just as competitive as any rival athletes 
or entrepreneurs. Many are distributing their software as open source, so 
anyone else can fix bugs and make improvements. What this means is not just 
that the RIAA is applying makeup to the corpse of the music industry as 
we've known it. In fact, it heralds an even larger change about how all 
content is created and distributed, and raises serious questions as to 
whether content creators (such as the author of this essay) will ever be 
compensated for our work.

Read a few dozen articles by top technology analysts, and it is often 
difficult to find one that doesn't breathlessly declare how this or that 
new technology represents a sea change, an inflection point, or the end of 
history. In fact, while the Internet's growth rates have been quite high, 
other technologies such as radio and gas cooking have actually been adopted 
faster. It may be, though, that all of the hype surrounding the digital 
duplication and peer-to-peer distribution of content actually 
underestimates the impact on the authors and publishers of music, movies, 
and written works.

Put simply, in a world where there are essentially no costs to replicate 
content and it is effectively impossible to stop anyone from doing so at 
will, the current economic model underpinning content creation will be 
dead. Despite the protestations of lawyers, (certain) rock bands, and 
legislatures (all on the same losing side, oddly enough), we are entering 
that brave new world.
If, as this hard technology determinist viewpoint suggests, content is 
destined to be free - i.e., the content creators and publishers will not be 
directly compensated the way they are today when you make a purchase from 
your local CD store - then the real question is what system could replace 
the content compensation system that has worked quite well for the last 300 
years. However, implementing revenue models for infinitely redistributable 
goods is not an entirely novel question, and there are several economic 
models that can support the creation of content. What there may not be is 
enough revenue to support the publishers of that content in addition to the 
authors, which helps explain why the RIAA is so eager to thwart digital 
distribution. When an ecosystem undergoes severe environmental changes, 
certain organisms that were previously essential - like the cyanobacteria 
that originally converted carbon dioxide to oxygen, or the record 
companies' A&R men - may recede to minor ecological niches.

Economists have a term for what digital goods have become. Items are 
"nonrival" when we can all make use of them without anyone having to give 
them up. If I copy your CD, you're none the worse for it (nonrival), but if 
I steal your car, you will probably be upset (rival). Goods are 
"nonexcludable" when it becomes impractical to stop everyone from making 
use of the item, once one person can. It is infeasible, for instance, to 
stop additional viewers of broadcast television (nonexcludable), while it 
is very feasible to stop additional moviegoers from entering a theate

Re: Reg - Linotype copyright action on Adobe-format fonts

[Petro]

On Tuesday, December 18, 2001, at 10:12 AM, David Honig wrote:

> At 07:35 PM 12/17/01 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote:
>> "ATM" is "Adobe Type Manager".  Linotype is a big font house.
>> Intellectual Property laws for fonts are normally even stranger than 
>> for
>> regular material,
>> but if any of these are in Postscript, they're also programs,
>> so there may be DMCA issues, and there's obviously some contractual
>> relationship with Adobe that lets them copyright implementations.
>
> IIRC fonts are not copyrightable in the US, but are elsewhere, yes?

The shape of the glyphs is not copyrightable, but the application 
of a specific name to that set of glyphs is.

You can copy *exactly* the shape of a font, and just call it 
something else. Helvetica->Arial/Geneva/Swiss (actually *slightly* 
different, but that was more an artifact of the original technology for 
them, Arial is TT, Geneva was a bitmapped font from Way Back on the Mac 
etc.)  Times->New York on the mac (as Helvetica is to Geneva, so Times 
is to New York, IIRC).

Oh, but don't do it by just renaming the postscript, that's 
copyright infringement on the *code*, as is (probably) using some sort 
of Postscript->TT conversion that renames as it goes.

> Assuming that's correct, then an algorithmic font (eg Postscript) could 
> be
> turned into an albeit large static set of pixels which wouldn't be
> copyrightable in the US.

That would be utterly pointless (no pun intended). The value of 
Postscript is that it *isn't* a set of pixels.
--
"Remember, half-measures can be very effective if all you deal with are
half-wits."--Chris Klein

Hire a lawyer for pennies a day 5417

[gfdjgkgergg2384]

Title: You Can Receive Thousands of Dollars in Legal Services  For Only
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