Go Figure9813

[Daddy]

BioCurex PRESS RELEASE
Source: BioCurex, Inc.

January 9, 2003

OTCBB Listed BioTech Companies BOCX & RJVN - 
Creating a Non-Toxic Therapeutic Antibody Cancer
Treatment That May Arrest Development and Replication
of Cancerous Cells.

Rancho Santa Margarita, Calif., January 9, 2003 BioCurex, 
Inc., (OTC BB:BOCX), Announces further developments 
relating to its licensing agreement with BioKinetix,
a company being acquired by RJV Networks, Inc., 
(OTC BB : RJVN).

BioCurex and RJV networks (through Biokinetix) are
behind the development of a new therapeutic product,
which experts believe will arrest the development of
and replication of cancerous cells that cause the
growth of malignant tumors.

BOCX's proprietary technology has identified a New 
Widespread Cancer marker Molecule named RECAF.
Cancer "markers" are molecules that appear on cancer 
cells but not on normal cells and have been hailed as
The Holy Grail of cancer research since they can be 
used to detect (diagnose) and then specifically target 
cancer cells (therapy) - offering the potential to
provide treatment of cancer by delivering antibodies
to the targeted cancerous cells.

RJVN and BioKinetics have proprietary technology for
developing "superantibodies", an enhancement of antibody
technology that makes ordinary antibodies much more lethal.
The combination of anti-RECAF antibodies from BioCurex with
the superantibody technology from RJVN - BioKinetics is
expected to produce a powerful therapeutic agent to combat
most types of cancer.

If the antibodies prove to be cancer cell specific, it
is unlikely that there would be any adverse side effects.
This lack of toxicity should accelerate testing and
approval process.

Dr. Moro, President of Biocurex stated: "Our ultimate
goal is to fight cancer. We have the cancer marker that
identifies the cancer cells and RJV Networks-BioKinetix
has the superantibody technology to kill them. It is only
natural that we join forces in the battle against this
horrible disease. I see tremendous potential for success
in this joint effort.

Dr. John Todd, President of BioKinetix Corporation stated
that Bio Kinetix Corporation's mission is to acquire
intellectual property rights for existing products
and intellectual property. Then, through a series of
collaborative relationships, we will facilitate the
development of a new generation of monoclonal antibodies
(termed "Superantibodies), which will have a significantly
improved therapeutic potency as anticancer agents.

BioCurex, Inc.
Richard Moro, President

RJV Networks-BioKinetix
Grant Young


For more info see RJVN  and BOCX in the news.
You can also see this Press Release at Yahoo Finance
biz.yahoo.com/pz/030109/35412.html
You can also look them up by their symbols: 
OTC BB:BOCX or OTC BB : RJVN
 


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Re: Indo European Origins

[Steve Furlong]

On Tuesday 14 January 2003 15:23, Bill Stewart wrote:

> ...You might as well argue that Esperanto** is just
> a rapidly evolved Indo-European.

> ** You probably _can't_ argue that about Logban; hacking the grammar
>  to make it yacc-parseable is pretty radical surgery.

Allow me to introduce myself: coi rodo mi'e stivn. (Lojban: Hey, all, 
I'm Steve.) I might have something to contribute to this subthread.

Lojban (not Logban; that's a conflation of the names Loglan and Lojban) 
isn't LALR-1. The grammar can be parsed by yacc only through creative 
use of the error-catching mechanism. It's a very impressive feat of 
yacc-hacking, don't get me wrong, but it's a hack nonetheless. And the 
grammar was indeed crafted to fit in a hacked yacc parser. A real 
parser which can properly handle grammatical errors in a chunk of 
Lojban text needs a more powerful language.

Given that, Bill's point is correct: Lojban's gammar has practically 
nothing in common with any natural language.

co'o rodo
stivn.

-- 
Steve FurlongComputer Condottiere   Have GNU, Will Travel

You don't expect governments to obey the law because of some higher
moral development. You expect them to obey the law because they know
that if they don't, those who aren't shot will be hanged.
--Michael Shirley

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[no subject]

[Tyler Durden]

Some dudes wrote...


Japanese, for example, did not even exist in any recognizable form >until 
long after Confucian-era texts which are still readable today.


How then can a claim be made that Japanese and Chinese are the same >age?


The grammar is Japanese is almost unrelated to Chinese 'grammar' (what litle 
here is). As for reading Confucian-era texts, they are by no means readble 
today, and believe me I've tried. (Aside from how the characters have 
changed, Ancient Chinese has a lot of differences when compared to modern 
Chinese, which actually only goes back about a century.) But I would agree 
that a Chinese reader wanting to read Confucious would need to do a lot less 
work that a modern speaker of English trying to read Beowulf (which is prior 
to influence from the Latin languages, no?)

-TD







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Re: Security cameras are getting smart -- and scary

[Tyler Durden]

Holy shit! I could done better than this! (ie, I THOUGHT this would be 
outrageous and amusing but it kinda sucked black prison dick.)
-TD






From: Sleeping Vayu - Vayu Anonymous Remailer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Security cameras are getting smart -- and scary
Date: 12 Jan 2003 20:55:51 -

At 09:33 PM 01/10/2003 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote:
> For all I know, I've been posting on a list haunted by a bunch of
> crypto-white supremists (crypto, as in secret, hidden). And if that's
> the case, then I want to know. Figured I'd ask for clarification on
> this issue. (And from some of May's comments in the past, it wasn't
> clear to me.)

As a matter of fact, I and Tim May regularly go nigger
hunting in the hills, me with my SKS.  Tim May is not so
keen on those commie guns, and usually has a good old
American AR15

Of course, in the hills around here there usually are no
damned niggers, but sometimes we get a pig.  Niggers are
pretty rare.   To catch a nigger, you need the right bait.

The tricky thing is to lure a nigger out of his native haunts,
to someplace far away and lonely with no one knowing where
he went.  Fortunately a friend of ours sometimes hires some
nigger pussy to give him a good time in his house out in the
woods.  Then of course the lady tells her numerous boyfriends
about all the good stuff he has, and pretty soon there are
some niggers out to rob him.  They usually get caught in one
of his traps, and if a couple of days pass and it seems that
no one is missing that nigger, I and Tim May have a it of fun
killing it.   It is not really as sporting as finding one in
hills, so usually we torture it a bit then give it a short
head start, track it through the hills by bloodstains, and then
shoot it.

There are quite a few entertaining ways of torturing a nigger
before you kill it. Books are one of the best -- they have the
same effect on a nigger as kryptonite on superman.



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Re: Security cameras are getting smart -- and scary

[Tyler Durden]

My thought was that James is some kind of Fed. I suspect Chomsky is one guy 
they most don't want around these days. His accusations on the Chomsky dis 
website were technicalities and hair-splitting, even somantic.

Chomsky is an in-your-face fuckin' giant. And even if you don't agree wih 
his politics, ya GOTTA love a guy who is that much of a pain in the ass!
And, wrt some issues of US national and foreign policy, he's totally all 
over dat shit.
-TD

Chomky's da MAN...enjoy him before he 'mysteriously' dies.






From: Jim Choate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Security cameras are getting smart -- and scary
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 11:13:32 -0600 (CST)

On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Tyler Durden wrote:

> For all I know, I've been posting on a list haunted by a bunch of
> crypto-white supremists (crypto, as in secret, hidden). And if that's 
the
> case, then I want to know. Figured I'd ask for clarification on this 
issue.
> (And from some of May's comments in the past, it wasn't clear to me.) If
> that makes me a moron, so be it.

There is definitely a faction of this sort on this list, has always been.
Will always be. I just lump the whole kit and kaboodle into the 'CACL
Contingent'.

May's one of the leaders of that contingent. He's into 'freedom for me,
but not for thee'.

> BTW...You're not the guy with the "Chomsky Dis" website are you?

He's the one who claims Chomsky is lying and then retracts the statement.
What he's got is exactly what Chomsky called it 'a joke' (and I'm no big
supporter of Chomsky, either his science or his politics).

I'm still waiting for James to provide the other references he claims are
on that page, but aren't. He claims to have done a thorough study of
Chomsky's work and developed a list of bad references and such. Though he
has steadfastly refused to share it with anyone (and it is -not- on that
page as he has claimed on this list several times). I asked one (and ask
again) what references in 'Deterring Democracy' are bogus? I'm still
waiting for a clear, honest answer to that one. I suspect it is a futile
wait.


 --


  We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I
  are going to spend the rest of our lives.

  Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space"

  [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.ssz.com   www.open-forge.org



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1673zijG1-646kFBB3290NPia0-852dql30

Re: Brinworld: Samsung SCH-V310 camcorder phone

[Morlock Elloi]

>The whole "Cell Phones - The Next Generation" thing
>has been a pure marketing scam from the beginning.

Experience demonstrates that any term with "generation" in it is pure BS,
technically and financially.

Most advances in technology are illusions created by dumbing down of the
populace.


=
end
(of original message)

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Re: RIAA turns against Hollings bill

[alan]

It makes me wonder just what kind of backroom deal was cut in the 
"negotiations".

On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Nomen Nescio wrote:

> The New York Times is reporting at
> http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/14/technology/14CND-PIRACY.html that
> the Recording Industry Association of America, along with two computer
> and technology industry trade groups, has agreed not to seek new
> government regulations to mandate technological controls for copyright
> protection.  This appears to refer primarily to the Hollings bill,
> the CBDTPA, which had already been struck a blow when Hollings lost his
> committee chairmanship due to the Democrats losing Senate leadership.
> Most observers see this latest step as being the last nail in the coffin
> for the CBDTPA.
> 
> Some months ago there were those who were predicting that Trusted
> Computing technology, as embodied in the TCPA and Palladium proposals,
> would be mandated by the Hollings bill.  They said that all this talk of
> "voluntary" implementations was just a smoke screen while the players
> worked behind the scenes to pass laws that would mandate TCPA and
> Palladium in their most restrictive forms.  It was said that Linux would
> be banned, that computers would no longer be able to run software that
> we can use today.  We would cease to be the real owners of our computers,
> others would be "root" on them.  A whole host of calamaties were forecast.
> 
> How does this latest development change the picture?  If there is no
> Hollings bill, does this mean that Trusted Computing will be voluntary,
> as its proponents have always claimed?  And if we no longer have such
> a threat of a mandated Trusted Computing technology, how bad is it for
> the system to be offered in a free market?
> 
> Let technology companies decide whether to offer Palladium technology
> on their computers or not.  Let content producers decide whether to use
> Palladium to protect their content or not.  Let consumers decide whether
> to purchase and enable Palladium on their systems or not.
> 
> Why is it so bad for people to freely make their own decisions about
> how best to live their lives?  Cypherpunks of all people should be the
> last to advocate limiting the choices of others.  Thankfully, it looks
> like freedom may win this round, despite the efforts of cypherpunks and
> "online freedom" advocates to eliminate this new technology option.
> 
> -
> The Cryptography Mailing List
> Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

REPLY NEEDED_URGENT

[BARRISTER WILLIAMS OWODE]

I am an Attorney and close confidant of MRS. MARYAM 
ABACHA, the former first lady and wife of the late 
GEN. SANI ABACHA, the former head of state and 
commander in chief of the armed forces of the Federal 
Republic of Nigeria. 

She (MRS. M. ABACHA), has as a result of the trust and 
confidence she has in me mandated that I search for a 
reliable and trustworthy foreign partner, who 
will help receive some funds which she had in cash 
totaling US$45m (Forty Five Million United States 
Dollars Only) into a personal, company or any 
reliable foreign bank account for safe keeping for a 
short period of time, since her family bank accounts 
within and outside the country have all been 
frozen by the authorities. (I would refer you to the 
website of 
.http://www.transnationale.org/anglais/sources/tiersmonde/dirigeants__a

ba 
http://allafrica.com/stories/200203180074.html 
http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2000/27/swiss.html , 
for further information 
about these monies and the ABACHAS) 

This money in question has however, been carefully 
keptin defaced form and deposited with a security 
company that has branches in Europe and America. 
You may therefore be required to travel to any 
of the branches to collect the money on behalf of my 
client for safe keeping. 

It may also interest you to know that she (MRS. 
ABACHA) and her family have, since the inception of 
the present democratic government, been placed under 
partial house arrest, with their international 
traveler's passports withdrawn pending  the resolution 
of current fund recovery face - off between them and 
the present RTD GEN. OBASANJO led Federal Government, 
which from all indications will not exceed this year. 

She has decided to offer anybody who will be willing 
to render this tremendous assistance 20% of the total 
sum, while 5% shall be set aside for incidental 
expenses. 

Note that this transaction involves no risks 
whatsoever, as you will have no dealing with my 
Country, Nigeria. Rather, you will deal directly with 
the security company, which is based where the money 
is right now. 

Let me have your confidential Tel/Fax Numbers in your 
response to this proposal. 

I shall let you into a complete picture of this 
mutually beneficial transaction when I have received 
your anticipated positive reply. This matter should be 
treated as urgent and confidential. This is very 
important. 

Best Regards, 

BARRISTER WILLIAMS OWODE.

Re: Subject: CDR: Re: QM, EPR, A/B

[Petro]

On Tue, Jan 14, 2003 at 06:07:40PM -0600, blah wrote:
>  >> From: Jim Choate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, crackpot:
>  >On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, blah wrote:
>  >> From: Jim Choate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  >> > Not from the photons perspective, from a photons perspective there is
>  >> > -no- time.
>  >>   A photon has no "perspective".
>  > Yes it does. It is a particle and it interacts with the rest of the
>  > cosmos. The cosmos views it, it views the cosmos.
>   OK. I'm convinced that you are a crackpot. Now, could someone (else) tell
> me if this is really a troll?

It's not a troll--at least not the kind you mean.

-- 
By the time you swear you're his/Shivering and sighing,  | Quit smoking:
And he vows his passion is/Infinite, undying -   | 267d, 14h ago
Lady, make a note of this:/One of you is lying.  | petro@
-- Dorothy Parker| bounty.org

RIAA turns against Hollings bill

[Nomen Nescio]

The New York Times is reporting at
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/14/technology/14CND-PIRACY.html that
the Recording Industry Association of America, along with two computer
and technology industry trade groups, has agreed not to seek new
government regulations to mandate technological controls for copyright
protection.  This appears to refer primarily to the Hollings bill,
the CBDTPA, which had already been struck a blow when Hollings lost his
committee chairmanship due to the Democrats losing Senate leadership.
Most observers see this latest step as being the last nail in the coffin
for the CBDTPA.

Some months ago there were those who were predicting that Trusted
Computing technology, as embodied in the TCPA and Palladium proposals,
would be mandated by the Hollings bill.  They said that all this talk of
"voluntary" implementations was just a smoke screen while the players
worked behind the scenes to pass laws that would mandate TCPA and
Palladium in their most restrictive forms.  It was said that Linux would
be banned, that computers would no longer be able to run software that
we can use today.  We would cease to be the real owners of our computers,
others would be "root" on them.  A whole host of calamaties were forecast.

How does this latest development change the picture?  If there is no
Hollings bill, does this mean that Trusted Computing will be voluntary,
as its proponents have always claimed?  And if we no longer have such
a threat of a mandated Trusted Computing technology, how bad is it for
the system to be offered in a free market?

Let technology companies decide whether to offer Palladium technology
on their computers or not.  Let content producers decide whether to use
Palladium to protect their content or not.  Let consumers decide whether
to purchase and enable Palladium on their systems or not.

Why is it so bad for people to freely make their own decisions about
how best to live their lives?  Cypherpunks of all people should be the
last to advocate limiting the choices of others.  Thankfully, it looks
like freedom may win this round, despite the efforts of cypherpunks and
"online freedom" advocates to eliminate this new technology option.

Re: Indo European Origins (language mutability, efficiency)

[R. A. Hettinga]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

At 2:56 PM -0800 on 1/14/03, Bill Stewart wrote:


> And while some of the edges have been bashed off of irregular
> verbs, if you'd a-been fixin' to talk about some verb forms being
> simpler, you shouldn't'a started out pickin' Southern grammar as an
> example.

Heck, even southern pronunciation is fun, viz, "a parcel of
victuals", for you Max Baer, Jr. fans...

Cheers,
RAH
Who has several good friends these days who are much easier to
understand in print than they are in person, and whose principal
attraction to the Jack Aubrey books (after all the sailing stuff, and
the feminist-orthogonal worldview), was the language...

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 8.0 - not licensed for commercial use: www.pgp.com

iQA/AwUBPiSlXsPxH8jf3ohaEQIuyQCfQPfV7pk0dIDnvWTzKPO3DISrNlMAn3UM
aIx4maNqkmOe2K6mQTKdo+6y
=h6II
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-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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Re: Chad Gore wants a chance to vote a second time!

[Steve Schear]

At 12:28 PM 1/14/2003 -0800, Tim May wrote:

On Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 08:29  AM, Steve Schear wrote:


Everything the Supreme Court did in the 2000 election was fully 
justified. The Dems lost, then tried to change the rules.

Perhaps its my lack of depth in understanding the Constitution and its 
Amendments, but it seems to me that the robed ones were applying the 
Equal Protection Clause in a way that could de-legitimize virtually every 
election in American history.  Their intervention and they way it was 
decided sets a very bad precedent.

Some old Jews and some negroes screwed up their ballots and accidentally 
voted, they claimed, for Pat Buchanan instead of who they claimed to 
interviewers they "intended" to vote for, namely, Al Gore. (A ballot 
designed by a Democrat precinct, by the way.)

It was proper that they were neither given a chance to vote over again nor 
given a chance to have incorrectly punched ballots altered to give the 
votes to Gore.

All true, but you didn't address my concern about the nature of the SC 
intervention.

In the book, 'The Accidental President,' by Newsweek writer David A. 
Kaplan--challenges statements by some justices in the aftermath of the 
decision that they had put the matter behind them and were once again 
enjoying cordial relations. It describes Souter and the three colleagues 
who joined him in dissent--Justices Stephen G. Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg 
and John Paul Stevens--as angered and baffled by the majority opinion.

Kaplan's book excerpt reveals that the animosities within the Court spilled 
over at a gathering of the Justices while they were hosting six visiting 
Russian judges. ``'In our country,' a Russian justice said, bemused, 'we 
wouldn't let judges pick the president.' The justice added that he knew 
that, in various nations, judges were in the pocket of executive officials 
-- he just didn't know that was so in the United States,'' Kaplan writes.

``Stephen Breyer was angry and launched into an attack on the decision, 
right in front of his colleagues. It was 'the most outrageous, indefensible 
thing' the Court had ever done, he told the visiting judges. 'We all agree 
to disagree, but this is different.' Breyer was defiant, brimming with 
confidence that he'd been right in his long dissent.'' Justice Ruth Bader 
Ginsburg was more baffled than annoyed, attempting to rationalize the 
legitimacy of the ruling. ``'Are we so highly political, after all?' she 
said. 'We've surely done other things, too, that were activist, but here 
we're applying the Equal Protection Clause in a way that would 
de-legitimize virtually every election in American history','' Kaplan writes.

steve

Re: Indo European Origins (language mutability, efficiency)

[Major Variola (ret)]

At 02:48 PM 1/14/03 -0800, Michael Motyka wrote:

>I guess bifurcation points and speciation seem very clear because of
the aliasing
>problems in our sampling methods. The speciation exists but is prolly (
probably ) often
>fuzzier than we think. Almost everyone would say that an American Bison
and a Scot's
>Highland are two different species but they can hybridize. Maybe we
non-Biologists
>measure the distance between "species" inaccurately.

Probably not.  Lay knowledge usually has substantial truth.  (The major
problem with lay knowledge
in bio/geo/climatology is lack of scale ---no sense that things change,
and this is a snapshot, so don't get
so attached.)

A species is operationally defined as a population that can't breed with

another.  The layman and/or farmer knows this, or learns this upon
trying to cross things :-)
Its empirically verifiable.

On forking: Nature's RCS is distributed.  Un-interoperable forks
(species) are documented by those wetboy cladistics folks,
gnostic Linneans.   And these days the sequencemensch and their
fluorescing machines,
ravers dancing to evolution's endlessly refined tune..

>Is the evolution towards a more efficient language an active or passive
process? Is it
>driven by an internal inclination towards expansion, freeing up system
resources as it
>were, or is it a coping mechanism for sensory overload?

A major job of Mr Brain is finding efficient representations (ie by
finding regularity).
At every level, from sensory to conceptual.

Humans are also very very good at imitation and linguistic acquisition.
(The same ready
programmability is maladaptive when e.g., religion infests the mind...)

.

Summary: It is adaptive for a critter to maximize the bits/baud over a
given channel.

Xerox errors in the genome try lots of things.  Similarly with memes &
culture & linguistics.  Some things work better.
You can get hurt if you misunderstand.  You might not have children if
you get hurt.  Do the math :-)

Re: Brinworld: Samsung SCH-V310 camcorder phone

[A.Melon]

Bill Stewart said: 

> At 12:31 PM 01/14/2003 -0800, Tim May wrote:
> >I saw mention on the Yahoo news site that some health clubs and
> >gyms are already taking steps to limit the types of cellphones
> >allowed in the changing areas (and maybe elsewhere).
>
> Hey, some people get their privacy by going to places that
> have Rules about the kind of video-broadcast technology that's allowed,
> some people build it using Technology like cell-phone jammers,
> while others of us accomplish it by having figures that
> nobody's going to bother photographing :-)

Unless you are being rebirthed by a home applicance.

http://pics.nikita.ca/artificial-gravity/bill.jpg

Re: Subject: CDR: Re: QM, EPR, A/B

[blah]

 >> From: Jim Choate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, crackpot:
 >On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, blah wrote:
 >> From: Jim Choate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 >>
 >> > Not from the photons perspective, from a photons perspective there is
 >> > -no- time.
 >>
 >>   A photon has no "perspective".
 >
 > Yes it does. It is a particle and it interacts with the rest of the
 > cosmos. The cosmos views it, it views the cosmos.
 
  OK. I'm convinced that you are a crackpot. Now, could someone (else) tell
me if this is really a troll?
 
[...]
 >There is a 'c' and a 'v' in -any- Lorentz transform. Do the math with v=c.
 
  I provided you with the lorentz transforms explicitly because you seem
to be unfamiliar with them and so that you could plug in `c' for `v' and
see the problem. It doesn't take any particular genius to realize what
happens. But, go ahead and insist a while longer. Or, do like anyone
else who read the post in which I provided you with the lorentz transforms
could have done if they didn't already know what they were. Plug in
the value of `c' for `v'. 

 >'v' is -always- in relation to 'c' because 'c' is -always constant-.
 
  Another misconception. `C' is a constant in any inertial frame.
`V' defines a relationship between two inertial frames. 

 >> There exists no lorentz transform by which any observer may transform
 >> coordinates to a photon,
 >
 >Really why?
 
  sheeesh...
 
  I provided you with the lorentz transforms in two different forms
so that you could figure this out for yourself. I see that you were
either unwilling or were unable to substitute v for c and deduce
anything about the transformation.
 
 >>It's called relativity because it assumes no absolute frame against
 >> which speeds must be referenced.

 >Wrong. -ALL- speeds are measured against c. That -is- the whole point of
 >Lorentz transforms. 'c' is -always- c.
 
  Yikes. Buy an introductory text on relativity as I suggested.
 
 >c is a -constant-. Therefore it -is absolute-.
 
  What does that have to do with measuring velocities relative to `c'
as you seem to believe? A lorentz transform is nothing more than a
coordinate transformation that preserves the value of `c'. Since the
entire puropse for which the lorentz trannsform was developed was to
find a coordinate transformation between coordinates in which `c'
has the same value, it's pretty much a tautology that `c' will be
constant in those frames.

 >There is no -space- constant, to that I will agree.
 
  Since I haven't the faintest idea what this means, then the only way
you could agree with me is to agree that you don't know what you are
talking about. Which is perfectly ok with me.

-- 

New Year`s Blowout Sale! Norton SystemWorks 2003

[Norton System Works]

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Re: Indo European Origins (language mutability, efficiency)

[Bill Stewart]

At 12:47 PM 01/14/2003 -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote:

Some of this is natural.  I've adopted the southern "y'all" because
English has no plural third person and this
ambiguity is annoying when you're emailing to several people.  Note also
the efficiency of the contraction.


"You" and "Y'all" and "Youse guys" and similar forms are second person;
third person is he/she/it/they/ dem guys.

Thou shouldst know that "You" is already plural,
having been adopted as more formal than the
second person familiar single "Thee / Thou"
and replacing the nominative second person plural "ye".
The analogy in German is "Sie" used as formal singular/plural
as opposed to "du" and "ihr".

And while some of the edges have been bashed off of irregular verbs,
if you'd a-been fixin' to talk about some verb forms being simpler,
you shouldn't'a started out pickin' Southern grammar as an example.

Re: Indo European Origins

[Michael Motyka]

Harmon Seaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote :
>You don't even have to read 14th Cent. lit to experience that. Read
>"A
> Clockwork Orange" -- most folks find they read about 1/3 to 1/2 before
> they go back and start over. Gibson, at least the earlier stuff, like
> "Neuromancer", is a bit like that, but Burgess really almost invented
> a new language. 
>
I read a few Burgess novels as a teenager - A Clockwork Orange, The Eve of St. 
Venus, One Hand Clapping, The Wanting Seed and I don't remember them that way. I 
remember them reading smoothly and clearly without a great struggle. Probably time to 
revisit one or two just to double-check my old brain.

>   Language evolves more rapidly than the yours (and Tim's) examples
>   tho -- look
> at innercity blackspeak, especially Chicago. Forget the ebonics jokes
> -- this is a genuine language change. Or look at other areas of the
> country with older language evolution -- Gullah in So. Caroline, for
> instance, a much earlier language specialization. When I was at the
> Univ. of So. Alabama in Mobile, I came across a group of country
> blacks in a grocery store whose language was totally incomprehensible,
> at least to me. I asked black friends about it, and they could mimic
> it a bit, but confessed that they too had a lot of difficulty
> understanding it, and they were native Mobilians. 
> I was raised, for the most part, in the deep South, but I've also
> come
> across many whites there whose speech was very difficult to
> understand, and which, I'm sure, if one tried to read an accurate
> phonetic rendition, without benefit of body language, would seem be
> essentially a foreign language. 
> 
I know the experience -  in the southern US, in Scotland - it's all English. Really? 
People 
are probably creating language constantly like a software evolutionary experiment. 
Much of it probably dies out. What remains appears to be "speciation". Write much 
Forth lately?

Mike

Re: Indo European Origins (language mutability, efficiency)

[Michael Motyka]

"Major Variola (ret)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote :
>On Ken's
>> > All contemporary natural languages, like all biological species, are
>> > the same age.
>
>At first this parsed because I was thinking in the sense of
>"all organisms have ancestries going back the same amount of
>time".  (And humans aren't the 'goal' of evolution.)  Not sure
>if non-bioheads got this.  Anyway others' complaints clarified
>"speciation" --if you are willing to identify a bifurcation point
>then you *can* age a species or any other fork --Linux 2.4,
>Latin, Corvettes, etc.
>
I guess bifurcation points and speciation seem very clear because of the aliasing 
problems in our sampling methods. The speciation exists but is prolly ( probably ) 
often 
fuzzier than we think. Almost everyone would say that an American Bison and a Scot's 
Highland are two different species but they can hybridize. Maybe we non-Biologists 
measure the distance between "species" inaccurately.

>At 10:36 AM 1/14/03 -0800, Michael Motyka wrote:
>>An interesting question that arises out of the observation that some
>languages
>>are relatively static and others - like English - have been changing
>steadily. Is
>>there any connection between the evolution behavior of the language and
>the
>>vitality of the culture? I think so.
>
>"Vitality" is fuzzy.  
>
Choose your measure : population? power? innovation? environmental impact? rate of 
change?

The US seems more vital by some measures. Less so by others. More dangerous to 
the species by others.  

>Clearly America admitting everyone (cf Japanese) helps.
>Clearly not having an Acadamie Anglaise helps (cf surrender-monkeys).
>Electronic media probably help.
>
>There's an even more interesting technical evolution:
>English is also undergoing "entropic refinement" or Hamming-like coding,
>as speakers prune or invent for efficiency.
>
>As it is, it takes fewer letters in English to say something than every
>other common language.
>Look at the instruction manuals for your domestic appliances.
>
That is interesting.

>Forms (memory requirements) get simpler ---can you believe that the
>surrender-monkeys retain
>a gender-bit for every friggin object-- and phonetically simpler too.
>The sounds get more orthogonal.
>Also the influence of immigrants and children and lazy native speakers
>who can't tell a "v" from a "w" or "d" from "th",
>or remember the 150 irregular verbs.
>
>Some of this is natural.  I've adopted the southern "y'all" because
>English has no plural third person and this
>ambiguity is annoying when you're emailing to several people.  Note also
>the efficiency of the contraction.
>You hear "data" used as singular enough times, you say fuck it, I'll
>have a beer, or several beer [sic].  Talk to
>Eastern Europeans long enough, you'll start dropping your articles,
>though you may miss the FEC/prompting
>and flash back to Boris & Natasha cartoons...
>
Is the evolution towards a more efficient language an active or passive process? Is it 
driven by an internal inclination towards expansion, freeing up system resources as it 
were, or is it a coping mechanism for sensory overload?

Mike

Re: Indo European Origins

[Harmon Seaver]

On Tue, Jan 14, 2003 at 10:36:46AM -0800, Michael Motyka wrote:
> Very true. Communicating with a 14th century Englishman would be difficult. I 
> took a similar major's course with Robert Kaske in the 80's without the benefit of 
> the side-by-side. It was as close to learning a new language as I got without 
> having it count towards my foreign language requirement. I think a modern reader 
> would recognize a fair number of words and structures. In a good bit of that they 
> would be mistaken in their understanding and overall would be hard-pressed to 
> comprehend the texts in any depth. 

   You don't even have to read 14th Cent. lit to experience that. Read "A
Clockwork Orange" -- most folks find they read about 1/3 to 1/2 before they go
back and start over. Gibson, at least the earlier stuff, like "Neuromancer", is
a bit like that, but Burgess really almost invented a new language. 
  Language evolves more rapidly than the yours (and Tim's) examples tho -- look
at innercity blackspeak, especially Chicago. Forget the ebonics jokes -- this is
a genuine language change. Or look at other areas of the country with older
language evolution -- Gullah in So. Caroline, for instance, a much earlier
language specialization. When I was at the Univ. of So. Alabama in Mobile, I
came across a group of country blacks in a grocery store whose language was
totally incomprehensible, at least to me. I asked black friends about it, and
they could mimic it a bit, but confessed that they too had a lot of difficulty
understanding it, and they were native Mobilians. 
I was raised, for the most part, in the deep South, but I've also come
across many whites there whose speech was very difficult to understand, and
which, I'm sure, if one tried to read an accurate phonetic rendition, without
benefit of body language, would seem be essentially a foreign language. 



-- 
Harmon Seaver   
CyberShamanix
http://www.cybershamanix.com

Re: Brinworld: Samsung SCH-V310 camcorder phone

[Bill Stewart]

At 12:31 PM 01/14/2003 -0800, Tim May wrote:

I saw mention on the Yahoo news site that some health clubs and
gyms are already taking steps to limit the types of cellphones
allowed in the changing areas (and maybe elsewhere).


Hey, some people get their privacy by going to places that
have Rules about the kind of video-broadcast technology that's allowed,
some people build it using Technology like cell-phone jammers,
while others of us accomplish it by having figures that
nobody's going to bother photographing :-)

Re: Brinworld: Samsung SCH-V310 camcorder phone

[Bill Stewart]

... and they lie about it being 3G (which doesn't exist yet.)


It's a CDMA2000 phone which is 3G.

3G networks exist in many parts of the world, although behind schedule in 
other parts.

The whole "Cell Phones - The Next Generation" thing
has been a pure marketing scam from the beginning.
It's a popular well-funded scam that got lots of mindshare
because it promised lots of people marketshare dominance
or other political advantages, that they haven't executed well.

But it makes a bunch of assumptions that the world can,
will, and should have the same cellphone standard everywhere,
and that the marketing people coming up with the term
know what it is because they work for the people who are
[pick hackneyed phrase here:
A: the powerful beings creating the One Ringtone To Rule Them All,
B: inevitably, scientific-central-planningally historically destined
C: The Phone Company which is really in charge of everything
D: the capitalist oligopoly conning our democratic central planners
]
which everybody in the world will buy into, including
manufacturers, system operators, regulators, and
last and certainly least, those enthusiastic customers,
and we'll all make scandalously high profits while
giving consumers what we _know_ they want to pay tons of money for,
because we know that the technology developers are ready
to ship this stuff Real Soon Now, at the right price point,

And of course, it assumes that everybody will believe that
the products _these_ marketing people are trying to sell are
the ones that will win, as opposed to the other technology developers
who are making obviously substandard products unworthy of becoming
CellPhones: TNG, and if somehow one of those other developers
gets deployed in some significant market, they'll not only
be stuck with some hackneyed name like "2.5G", but consumers
will realize that those competing technologies are just opportunists
who'll be Left Behind By Progress, so they either won't buy it
or at least the wireless companies will dump it for
Better Stuff Real Soon, or at least if there's more than one
cell-phone company in an area, if the first one buys the 2.5G stuff,
anybody else coming in with 3G can steal their customers.

They're also depending on it taking long enough for 3G to get deployed
and paid for and achieve World Domination
that nobody's going to sneak in and call _their_ stuff 4G.

In practice, the real issues seem to be how fast a data channel
is available, with the interesting values being 9600, 56k, 384k, 2M,
how much spectrum space gets burned supporting it,
how much distance you get for the voice and data cells,
which standards interfere with which other standards,
whether voice gets handled as something special or as data,
whether data gets handled as something special like WAP
or left as open-standard IP with TCP or UDP and HTTP,
with or without being forced through filters or
able to be sent through optional filters,
how to integrate data transmission with texting
(e.g. texting using ad-hoc telco standards or internet standards),
how much jitter the data has (low values make VOIP possible),
who's in charge of each of these services,
which is to say "who gets how much of the money, if any",
and how to get teenagers to have to buy it to be cool.
These aren't the kind of things that easily fit into one linear
range of values, and doing so is marketing scam.

Politics as dandruff...

[R. A. Hettinga]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

At 1:47 AM -0800 1/14/03, Bill Stewart wrote:
> At 10:40 PM 01/13/2003 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>> Everything the Supreme Court did in the 2000 election was fully
>> justified. The Dems lost, then tried to change the rules. Were it
>> up to me, I would have shot Al Gore and Joe Lieberman on the spot.
>> You and Bill need your brains washed out with soap. I'm not happy
>> with Bush, to repeat this mantra that Gore/Lieberman actually won
>> is knavish at best.
 
> Gore and Lieberman would have been no prize in office either, but
> they wouldn't have done much more damage to the economy or to civil
> liberties, probably much less, and would have been less gung-ho
> about getting us into a war and would have found some kind of pork
> that's more productive than military hardware to spend our tax
> money on.

At the time, it absolutely amazed me how, when push came to political
shove, all the libertarians and ostensible anarchocapitalists --
myself included -- went back to behaving like, if not becoming
actual, Democrats and Republicans in November 2000. Or for that
matter, how September 2001 changed that initial polarization, one way
or another.

The joys of the American binary, winner-take-all pseudomarket for
force, I suppose.

[Yes, I know, the French have the same type of system and they have
multiple parties, and, yes, I know, proportional representation
probably yields *more* law and regulation than the system Americans
have, and, no, I don't think we can do much better than what we have,
qua politics itself, except to make smaller nation states, which will
probably happen in this country more from market forces than
political violence, probably under the guise of some kind of Federal
"devolution", and yes, we need actual markets for force instead of
transfer-priced monopolies for same... Right. In the meantime, you're
preaching to the choir. :-)]


It is -- almost -- amusing, nonetheless, to see really how fragile it
is, how hard it is to coalesce around, this idea of stateless freedom
that lots of us have discovered, in *concrete* form, for first time,
on this list. An actual method, a technology, to get to that freedom
without having to resort to politics itself like the libertarians do,
or to violence like some anarchists do, or outright non-participation
like anarchocapitalists do.


Given that it took a couple of hundred years between the Thirty Years
War, when an actual economic *requirement* for an orthogonality of
politics and religion was first discovered and the removal of
monopolistic force from the latter was first implemented, and the
American Revolution, when the first ostensibly religion-orthogonal
nation-state was founded, I expect that we really shouldn't be too
surprised that we still have such a long row to hoe before we can
finally kick the state out of the economy once and for all, to be
just as free of politics as a means of controlling force as our
forefathers made themselves free of religious control of the same.


Until we do so, however, we're going to have to deal with the fact
that we're still Republicans and Democrats, Liberals and
Conservatives, no matter what even our registered voting affiliation
says we are. For instance, Bill and Tim are, I believe, both
registered Libertarians. (And, of course, I'm still a registered
Republican. In Massachusetts, no less, so I'm literally hopeless.
:-))


Nonetheless, when I see the above kinds of discussion from people who
do agree on method, if not cause, I can't help thinking about
something Heinlein said about religion, and I have to smile a bit:

"Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the
unknown without help. But like dandruff, most people do have a
religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive
considerable pleasure from fiddling with it."

- --R.A. Heinlein, "Time Enough for Love"


Cheers,
RAH

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-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"All government is, in its essence, organized exploitation, and in
virtually all of its existing forms it is the implacable enemy of every
industrious and well-disposed man." -- H.L. Mencken

Re: Indo European Origins

[Tim May]

On Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 08:25  AM, Ken Brown wrote:


Tim May wrote:


All contemporary natural languages, like all biological species, are
the same age.


This statement is so silly it leaves me speechless...

Getting my breath back,


Of course some might change more slowly than others (Greek seems to
have
a;ltered less than Latin in 2500 years), or might remain in one place
longer than others (it is silly to say that Welsh is an older 
language
than English, but it is older in Britain)


Nonsense. Icelandic is little changed from the Old Norse of 1000 A.D.
Icelanders can easily read the sagas without help; modern Danes and
Norwegians cannot. English, by contrast, is substantially different
from just the Middle English of Chaucer, let alone the Old English of
Beowulf.


Er, that's  exactly what I said - they are the same age, but some 
change
more slowly than others...
and I did warn that I was being unreasonably pedantic.

Modern English is only a few centuries old, you seem to agree (with 
your comments about Old and Middle English). Arabic is basically what 
it was at the time Mohammed wrote the Koran.

Comparing the ages, then, of English with Arabic, or Chinese with 
Japanese, or Urdu with German, and then saying "they are the same age," 
is silly.

Arabic is older than both English and Middle English, but roughly the 
same age as Old English. Some world languages are definitely younger 
than others. Japanese, for example, did not even exist in any 
recognizable form until long after Confucian-era texts which are still 
readable today.

How then can a claim be made that Japanese and Chinese are the same age?

--Tim May
"Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and
strangled with her panty hose,  is somehow morally superior to a woman 
explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound"

Re: Indo European Origins (language mutability, efficiency)

[Major Variola (ret)]

On Ken's
> > All contemporary natural languages, like all biological species, are

> > the same age.

At first this parsed because I was thinking in the sense of
"all organisms have ancestries going back the same amount of
time".  (And humans aren't the 'goal' of evolution.)  Not sure
if non-bioheads got this.  Anyway others' complaints clarified
"speciation" --if you are willing to identify a bifurcation point
then you *can* age a species or any other fork --Linux 2.4,
Latin, Corvettes, etc.


At 10:36 AM 1/14/03 -0800, Michael Motyka wrote:
>An interesting question that arises out of the observation that some
languages
>are relatively static and others - like English - have been changing
steadily. Is
>there any connection between the evolution behavior of the language and
the
>vitality of the culture? I think so.

"Vitality" is fuzzy.  Clearly America admitting everyone (cf Japanese)
helps.
Clearly not having an Acadamie Anglaise helps (cf surrender-monkeys).
Electronic media probably help.

There's an even more interesting technical evolution:
English is also undergoing "entropic refinement" or Hamming-like coding,

as speakers prune or invent for efficiency.

As it is, it takes fewer letters in English to say something than every
other common language.
Look at the instruction manuals for your domestic appliances.

Forms (memory requirements) get simpler ---can you believe that the
surrender-monkeys retain
a gender-bit for every friggin object-- and phonetically simpler too.
The sounds get more orthogonal.
Also the influence of immigrants and children and lazy native speakers
who can't tell a "v" from a "w" or "d" from "th",
or remember the 150 irregular verbs.

Some of this is natural.  I've adopted the southern "y'all" because
English has no plural third person and this
ambiguity is annoying when you're emailing to several people.  Note also
the efficiency of the contraction.
You hear "data" used as singular enough times, you say fuck it, I'll
have a beer, or several beer [sic].  Talk to
Eastern Europeans long enough, you'll start dropping your articles,
though you may miss the FEC/prompting
and flash back to Boris & Natasha cartoons...

Re: Brinworld: Samsung SCH-V310 camcorder phone

[Tim May]

On Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 08:49  AM, Major Variola (ret) wrote:


At 01:38 AM 1/14/03 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote:

data speeds on cell phones are
getting fast enough that if they've designed the phones right,
you can get at least CU-SeeMe quality video and maybe better,
with 64kbps, and ostensibly 384kbps
But it's a start.


Its pretty common to see a "reporter" holding a cell phone up to a
talking head surrounded by more conventional microphones, tape
recorders.

When a major news medium first uses a video snip recorded from a phone
at the
scene, the Brinworld clock will have advanced another second.

And then some Nokia yahoo will introduce some more interesting features
that
used to be found in $10K specialized video/recording equiptment
* snap a frame if something moves (security)
* FIFO the last N seconds
* low light/IR/frame accumulate
etc.
making the 7segment LED Brinworld clock blick closer to midnight.



I saw mention on the Yahoo news site that some health clubs and gyms 
are already taking steps to limit the types of cellphones allowed in 
the changing areas (and maybe elsewhere).

--Tim May

Chad Gore wants a chance to vote a second time!

[Tim May]

On Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 08:29  AM, Steve Schear wrote:


At 10:40 PM 1/13/2003 -0800, Tim May wrote:

On Monday, January 13, 2003, at 09:23  PM, John Kelsey wrote:


At 10:44 AM 1/13/03 -0800, you wrote:

If you've got your brother counting the votes,
and you can prevent anybody else from counting them,
then you don't need to cancel elections.


Personally, I was shocked, *shocked*, to see the supreme court make 
a decision on the basis of politics instead of a careful reading of 
the constitution.

Everything the Supreme Court did in the 2000 election was fully 
justified. The Dems lost, then tried to change the rules.

Perhaps its my lack of depth in understanding the Constitution and its 
Amendments, but it seems to me that the robed ones were applying the 
Equal Protection Clause in a way that could de-legitimize virtually 
every election in American history.  Their intervention and they way 
it was decided sets a very bad precedent.

Some old Jews and some negroes screwed up their ballots and 
accidentally voted, they claimed, for Pat Buchanan instead of who they 
claimed to interviewers they "intended" to vote for, namely, Al Gore. 
(A ballot designed by a Democrat precinct, by the way.)

It was proper that they were neither given a chance to vote over again 
nor given a chance to have incorrectly punched ballots altered to give 
the votes to Gore.



--Tim May
""Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who 
approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but 
downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." 
--Patrick Henry

Re: Indo European Origins

[Bill Stewart]

At 04:25 PM 01/14/2003 +, Ken Brown wrote:

> > All contemporary natural languages, like all biological species, are
> > the same age.

> This statement is so silly it leaves me speechless... []
> Nonsense. Icelandic is little changed from the Old Norse of 1000 A.D.
> Icelanders can easily read the sagas without help; modern Danes and
> Norwegians cannot. English, by contrast, is substantially different
> from just the Middle English of Chaucer, let alone the Old English of
> Beowulf.

Er, that's  exactly what I said - they are the same age, but some change
more slowly than others...
and I did warn that I was being unreasonably pedantic.


If you're going to be pedantic, it would be nice if you start by
defining the objects you're measuring the age of,
because otherwise I have to strongly agree with Tim's statement -
I don't see how you could claim either that all natural languages
date from the year X BC when Mitochondrial Mama Eve learned to talk,
or that all biological species have been extent since our
first cellular ancestors crawled their way up out of the primordial soup
to declare themselves to be the prime-time slime.

The one set of definitions I'm familiar with that would lead
to statements like yours is creationism, in the 4004BC Big Bang sense,
with a subdefinition that "anything created the same week is
the same age", since of course the plants, animals, and humans
were created on different days.  In modern scientific creationism*,
the same events occurred stretch out over a longer and earlier time,
with plants and animals and humans showing up in different periods,
so they're much different ages.  But neither one of those definitions
makes all _languages_ the same age; at minimum there are the languages
descended from what Noah's family spoke and the different languages
that appeared after the Tower of Babel  (unless you want to argue that
those are supernatural languages?)  but I don't see Biblical evidence
asserting that other languages didn't appear as people needed them.

Hawai'ian pidgen simply didn't exist until Europeans moved into
Polynesian territory and started trading with them,
and unlike the evolution of English since Shakespeare and/or Chaucer,
the languages that emerged from the collision of English Anglo-Saxon
and Norman after the Conquest (plus the collisions of Anglo and Saxon
and Latin and Celtic and Pictish-if-it's-different that happened before)
are sufficiently different from what either side spoke beforehand that I
can't see any pedagogue worth his salarium asserting that they're still
instantiations of the same Original Linguistic Object.   You might as well
argue that Esperanto** is just a rapidly evolved Indo-European.

Were you trying to make some different point your pedagogue taught you,
about the age of all these things being Brand New Every Day?
Or is there something fundamental that I'm just missing that you had in mind?


* Stop giggling, the difference is important to my point here...
** You probably _can't_ argue that about Logban; hacking the grammar
to make it yacc-parseable is pretty radical surgery.

3G Phones (was: Re: Brinworld: Samsung SCH-V310 camcorder phone)

[Meyer Wolfsheim]

On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Steve Mynott wrote:

> > ... and they lie about it being 3G (which doesn't exist yet.)
>
> It's a CDMA2000 phone which is 3G.
>
> 3G networks exist in many parts of the world, although behind schedule
> in other parts.

Hmm. I actually can't find any specs on that phone's max speed. The
CDMA2000 service being offered by Sprint and Verison in the US does not
meet the criteria for 3G.

CDMA2000 1x as defined by the ITU is, a 3G standard. Keep in mind,
however, that in order to be 3G by the ITU definition, a standard needs to
deliver data rates of a minimum of 144 Kbps.

The top speed I've seen advertised for CDMA2000 deployments is 70 Kbps. Is
CDMA2000 being used outside North America? I thought GSM/GPRS was the
dominant standard in Europe and Asia. (GPRS is never 3G.)


-MW-

Re: Pigs Kill Family Pet

[W. Heath Robinson]

Eric Cordian wrote:
 > COOKEVILLE, Tennessee (CNN) -- Police video released Wednesday showed
 > a North Carolina family kneeling and handcuffed, who shrieked as
 > officers killed their dog -- which appeared to be playfully wagging
 > its tail -- with a shotgun during a traffic stop.
 >
> http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/08/police.kill.dog/index.html

CNN want me to "Click here to Join!" before I can see the video. 
Fortunately, Google pointed me to:

where they have the real video available for dowload by all.

Watched it... Dude, that is fucked up.

Re: Brinworld: Samsung SCH-V310 camcorder phone

[Steve Mynott]

On Tuesday, Jan 14, 2003, at 07:56 Europe/London, Meyer Wolfsheim wrote:


On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Tim May wrote:


Samsung unveil new 3G camcorder phone
http://www.3gnewsroom.com/3g_news/jan_03/news_2906.shtml


Hardly Brinworld. And T-Mobile has had it for awhile.

Why is warmed-over technology news given headlines?


Because Samsung are trying to sell phones.


... and they lie about it being 3G (which doesn't exist yet.)


It's a CDMA2000 phone which is 3G.

3G networks exist in many parts of the world, although behind schedule 
in other parts.

--
Steve Mynott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Indo European Origins

[Michael Motyka]

Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote :
>English, by contrast, is substantially different 
>from just the Middle English of Chaucer, let alone the Old 
English of 
>Beowulf.  I took a class in "The Canterbury Tales," in the 
original 
>with a side-by-side translation, from a Chaucer scholar. A 
few 
>recognizable words, a few familar patterns. But quite 
clearly there has 
>been significant evolution of English in the past half-
millennium. By 
>contrast, the Koran is readable in the original by modern 
Arabs.
>
>--Tim May
>
Very true. Communicating with a 14th century Englishman would be difficult. I 
took a similar major's course with Robert Kaske in the 80's without the benefit of 
the side-by-side. It was as close to learning a new language as I got without 
having it count towards my foreign language requirement. I think a modern reader 
would recognize a fair number of words and structures. In a good bit of that they 
would be mistaken in their understanding and overall would be hard-pressed to 
comprehend the texts in any depth. 

An interesting question that arises out of the observation that some languages 
are relatively static and others - like English - have been changing steadily. Is 
there any connection between the evolution behavior of the language and the 
vitality of the culture? I think so.

m

China Strengthens Supervision of RMB Payments (fwd)

[Jim Choate]

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200301/14/eng20030114_110120.shtml


 --


  We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I
  are going to spend the rest of our lives.

  Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space"

  [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.ssz.com   www.open-forge.org

Yahoo! News - Transmeta to Embed Security Features in Processor(fwd)

[Jim Choate]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=569&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20030114/tc_nm/tech_transmeta_dc


 --


  We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I
  are going to spend the rest of our lives.

  Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space"

  [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.ssz.com   www.open-forge.org

[no subject]

[jomo2220]

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RESPONSE PLEASE.

[DESMOND STEVENS]

  FROM:MR. DESMOND STEVENS



  URGENT ASSISTANCE.
YOU MAY BE SURPRISED TO RECEIVE THIS LETTER FROM ME SINCE YOU DO
NOT KNOW ME PERSONALLY. I AM MR.DESMOND STEVENS, THE FIRST SON OF DR.
DENNIS STEVENS, WHO WAS RECENTLY MURDERED IN THE LAND DISPUTE IN
ZIMBABWE. I WAS FURNISHED WITH VIABLE INFORMATION FROM THE WORLD TRADE CENTRE
HERE IN AMSTERDAM, THE NETHERLANDS AND DECIDED TO WRITE YOU.

BEFORE THE DEATH OF MY FATHER, HE HAD TAKEN ME TO AMSTERDAM TODEPOSIT THE
SUM OF TEN MILLION,FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND UNITED STATES DOLLARS (US$10,500,000) IN A 
SECURITY COMPANY, AS IF HE FORESAW THE
LOOMING DANGER IN ZIMBABWE. THIS MONEY WAS DEPOSITED IN A BOX AS GEMSTONES TO
AVOID MUCH DEMURRAGE FROM THE SECURITY COMPANY. THIS AMOUNT WAS MEANT FOR
THE PURCHASE OF NEW MACHINES AND CHEMICALS FOR THE FARMS AND ESTABLISHMENT OF
NEW FARM IN SWAZILAND. THIS LAND PROBLEM CAME WHEN ZIMBABWE PRESIDENT MR.
ROBERT MUGABE, INTRODUCED A NEW LAND ACT THAT WHOLLY AFFECTED RICH WHITE
FARMERS AND SOME FEW BLACK FARMERS. THIS RESULTED TO THE KILLING AND MOB
ACTION BY ZIMBABWE WAR VETERANS AND SOME LUNATICS IN THE SOCIETY. INFACT, A
LOT OF PEOPLE WERE KILLED BECAUSE OF THIS LAND REFORM ACT OF WHICH MY
FATHER WAS ONE OF THE VICTIMS. IT IS AGAINST THIS BACKGROUND THAT MY FAMILY
AND I WHO ARE CURRENTLY STAYING IN AMSTERDAM DECIDED TO TRANSFER MY
FATHER’S MONEY TO A FOREIGN ACCOUNT. SINCE THE LAW OF THE NETHERLANDS PROHIBIT A
REFUGEE (ASYLUM SEEKER) TO OPEN ANY ACCOUNT OR TO BE INVOLVED IN ANY
FINANCIAL TRANSACTION.

AS THE ELDEST SON OF MY FATHER, I AM SADDLED WITH THE RESPONSIBILITY OF SEEKING A 
GENUINE FOREIGN ACCOUNT WHERE THIS MONEY COULD BE
TRANSFERRED WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE OF MY GOVERNMENT WHO ARE BENT ON TAKING
EVERYTHING WE HAVE GOT. I AM FACED WITH THE DILEMMA OF INVESTING THIS AMOUNT OF
MONEY IN THE NETHERLANDS FOR THE FEAR OF GOING THROUGH THE SAME EXPERIENCE
IN FUTURE SINCE BOTH COUNTRIES HAVE SIMILAR HISTORY. MOREOVER, THE
NETHERLANDS FOREIGN EXCHANGE POLICY DOES NOT ALLOW SUCH INVESTMENT FROM
ASYLUM SEEKERS.

AS A BUSINESSMAN, WHOM I HAVE ENTRUSTED MY FUTURE AND MY FAMILY
IN HIS HANDS, I MUST LET YOU KNOW THAT THIS TRANSACTION IS RISK FREE. IF
YOU ACCEPT TO ASSIST ME AND MY FAMILY, ALL I NEED YOU TO DO FOR ME IS
TO MAKE ARRANGEMENT AND COME TO AMSTERDAM, THE NETHERLANDS SO THAT YOU
CAN OPEN THE NON-RESIDENT ACCOUNT WHICH WILL AID US IN TRANSFERRING THE MONEY
INTO ANY ACCOUNT YOU WILL NOMINATE OVERSEAS. THIS MONEY I INTEND TO USE
FOR INVESTMENT. I HAVE OPTIONS TO OFFER YOU, FIRST YOU CAN CHOOSE TO
HAVE CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF THE MONEY FOR NOMINATING YOUR ACCOUNT FOR
THE TRANSACTION, OR YOU CAN GO INTO PARTNERSHIP WITH ME FOR A PROPER
PROFITABLE INVESTMENT OF THE MONEY IN YOUR COUNTRY. WHICHEVER OPTION YOU
CHOOSE, FEEL FREE TO NOTIFY ME. I HAVE MAPPED OUT 5% OF THIS MONEY FOR ALL
EXPENSES INCURRED IN PROCESSING THIS TRANSACTION. IF YOU DO NOT PREFER A
PARTNERSHIP, I AM WILLING TO GIVE YOU 25% OF THE MONEY WHILE THE
REMAINING 70% THAT IS MEANT FOR ME, WILL BE FOR THE INVESTMENT IN YOUR
COUNTRY.PLEASE, CONTACT ME WITH THE ABOVE TELEPHONE AND E-MAIL ADDRESS,
WHILE I IMPLORE YOU TO MAINTAIN THE ABSOLUTE SECRECY REQUIRED IN THE
TRANSACTION.

YOURS FAITHFULLY,
DESMOND STEVENS.

  

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  optinXmail mail is sent only to subscribers and is NOT spam. 
If you wish to unsubscribe please see instructions 
at the bottom of this page. 
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love barbie 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Major Breaking News!(IBXG)Watch This Stock Trade

[Investor Insights]

	
		
			

	
		
			
		
		
			

	News Alert
	

			
		
		
			IBXG Group, Inc. (OTCBB: IBXG)
			6 Month Target Price: $.38
			
		
		
			


	
		Shares Outstanding
		40.0 million
		 
		 
		 
	
	
		Approx. Float
		7.8 million
		 
		 
		 
	
	
		6 Month Price Proj.
		$.38
		 
		 
		 
	

			
		
	
	
	
		
			A Few Reasons to Own IBXG:

	
		1.
		IBXG is an emerging growth company in the trillion-dollar healthcare industry.
	
	
		2.
		IBXG is coming off its fourth quarter in a row of increasing revenues and its second consecutive profitable quarter. IBXG experienced a 50% gain in third quarter revenue.
	
	
		3.
		IBXG estimated EPS for all of 2002 is estimated to be $.01 per share. 
	
	
		4.
		IBXG is currently cash flow positive. IBXG is making acquisitions and expanding its infrastructure while vigorously pursuing the Marketing Plan.
	
	
		5.
		IBXG is a results-oriented company with three integrated divisions ? Healthcare Transaction Services, Physical Therapy & Occupational Medicine, and Technology/Information Services. 
	
	
		6.
		IBXG has established a strong market niche in the area of Healthcare Transaction Services.
	
	
		7.
		IBXG recently began managing its largest receivables management project ever totaling $39 million from Intracoastal Health Systems, Inc. of West Palm Beach, Florida.
	
	
		8.
		IBXG has implemented a clear-cut strategic plan to expand its capabilities in the area of Physical Therapy and Occupational Medicine 
	
	
		9.
		IBXG has developed and recently commenced marketing an innovative web-based inventory management application for the $1.5 billion durable medical equipment (DME) industry.
	
	
		10.
		BXG has developed and deployed a proprietary online consumer medical records service throughout the U.S. The technology is being utilized by several affinity groups, including one of the largest credit card companies in the world. 
	
	
		11.
		IBXG?s internal compliance program has been certified as meeting all current requirements of the Federal Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). 
	

			
		
	
	
	
		
			Update
		
		
			

	Great News! With today's press release (Read Below), if we look back on the most recent news for IBXG, then we can now calculate that IBXG should generate $11 Million Dollars in revenues for 2003, with earnings per share of $0.03-$0.04 this year.
	When we first starting covering IBXG just last month we were looking at a company generating $3 Million Dollars in revenues and earning $0.01 per share for the year just ended.
	Whew! What a difference a few weeks make, at this growth rate who knows what IBXG can be worth down the road.
	In our opinion, based on this new Press Release, it appears to us that IBXG is on the road to rapid growth.
	With IBXG trading in the mid teens, based on today's press release, in our opinion, if all projections come to fruition, we have to believe that at current market prices IBXG is cheap, and could possibly be one of this year's best-kept secrets.
	Remember, last March IBXG traded at $0.90 per share, and in our opinion, at those levels IBXG was nowhere as a company in comparison to today.

			
		
	
	
	
		
			Press Release
		
		
			

	IBX GROUP SUBSIDIARY, FLORIDA HEALTHSOURCE TO ROLL OUT 10 PHYSICAL THERAPY CLINICS THROUGHOUT FLORIDA WITH $3 MILLION IN TOTAL PROJECTED REVENUE FOR 2003
	DEERFIELD BEACH, FL (January 13, 2003) - Florida HealthSource, a wholly-owned subsidiary of iBX Group, Inc. (OTCBB: IBXG), announced today it will open at least 10 new physical therapy and occupational medicine clinics throughout Florida in 2003 as the first major step in the expansion of iBX's Physical Therapy and Occupational Medicine Division.
	The new clinics are expected to generate an estimated $3 million in new revenue during 2003, according to Florida HealthSource management.  The additional revenue from this subsidiary is expected to result in an increase in earnings up to 1.5 cents per share, according to iBX Group president and CEO Evan R. Brovenick.
	

[no subject]

[seastars42]

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BUSINESS INITIATION

[malika ozubu]

URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL.
FROM:BARRISTER  MALIKA  OZUBU (SAN)
EMAIL:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   

Dear sir,
I am a legal practitioner and an import-export
consultant in West African region. This is a very 
Personal letter am writing you and I crave your 
Indulgence not to treat it as one of those “HOAX”
Letters you do receive As  SPAM.
One of my client is interested in investing Millions
of Dollars in your country and he is interested ininvesting with your company. 
My client happen to be the eldest son of a militaryhead of state of my country now 
DECEASED, I was his father lawyer when he was alive and, he has given me the power of 
attorney to source for and represent him in investing this said amount. 
During this period of representation, my client shall
be disposed to answering any question that may arise from your curiousity.
In these regards, I wish that you kindly forward all
your companys activities to me for immediatedecision on the investment program.
Total amount to be invested=$14,500,000,00.usd...Cash investment Immediately I receive 
your details, I will inform! myclient and feed you with all arrangement in this 
regard.Anticipating your immediate reply.

Your`s faithfully,

MALIKA   OZUBU (ESQ.)

NB,please do send your replies to the mail address above ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

___
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Re: citizens can be named as enemy combatants

[Bill Stewart]

At 10:44 AM 1/13/03 -0800, [Bill Stewart] wrote:

If you've got your brother counting the votes,
and you can prevent anybody else from counting them,
then you don't need to cancel elections.


On Monday, January 13, 2003, at 09:23  PM, John Kelsey wrote:

Personally, I was shocked, *shocked*, to see the supreme court make a 
decision on the basis of politics instead of a careful reading of the 
constitution.

At 10:40 PM 01/13/2003 -0800, Tim May wrote:

Everything the Supreme Court did in the 2000 election was fully justified. 
The Dems lost, then tried to change the rules.
Were it up to me, I would have shot Al Gore and Joe Lieberman on the spot.
You and Bill need your brains washed out with soap.
I'm not happy with Bush, to repeat this mantra that Gore/Lieberman 
actually won is knavish at best.

I'm not sure who won, but I know who tried to make sure that
nobody else got to count the votes; it was pure sleaze,
and he got away with it, though I'll grant you that the
incompetence of the Democrats at enforcing the rules about
getting the votes recounted when they're close enough that
Florida law permits it certainly contributed to that.

Gore and Lieberman would have been no prize in office either,
but they wouldn't have done much more damage to the economy
or to civil liberties, probably much less, and would have been
less gung-ho about getting us into a war and would have found
some kind of pork that's more productive than military hardware
to spend our tax money on.

Re: Brinworld: Samsung SCH-V310 camcorder phone

[Bill Stewart]

At 11:39 PM 01/13/2003 -0800, Tim May wrote:

Hardly Brinworld. And T-Mobile has had it for awhile.

Why is warmed-over technology news given headlines?


Because all of us phone company stockholders hope maybe
warmed-over headlines will get them to buy the stuff this time?

Less cynically, though, some of the newer technology is making
this a bit more practical - data speeds on cell phones are
getting fast enough that if they've designed the phones right,
you can get at least CU-SeeMe quality video and maybe better,
with 64kbps, and ostensibly 384kbps which lets you do a bit better
than just talking heads video, as opposed to most of the earlier
cellphones-with-still-cameras.   (Of course, if they're charging
you by the minute, you're not likely to do much of this,
though some of the cellphone companies have figured out that
they really should be selling flat-rate data.)
But it's a start.

Re: Security cameras are getting smart -- and scary

[Bill Stewart]

At 02:25 PM 01/13/2003 -0800, James A. Donald wrote:

The hunting post was obviously a joke, as the final line made
clear. The real joke was that some readers would fail to see
that the first line was a joke, would believe that cypherpunks
really do go hunting black people.


Now, hunting black _helicopters_ is a different matter, you realize

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Re: Brinworld: Samsung SCH-V310 camcorder phone

[Meyer Wolfsheim]

On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Tim May wrote:

> > Samsung unveil new 3G camcorder phone
> > http://www.3gnewsroom.com/3g_news/jan_03/news_2906.shtml
>
> Hardly Brinworld. And T-Mobile has had it for awhile.
>
> Why is warmed-over technology news given headlines?

... and they lie about it being 3G (which doesn't exist yet.)


-MW-