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debian can be better

[Pedro Paulo Argolo]

Debian
 needs better support video cards from Nvidia and ATI video boards 
Intel. I had configuration problems because of that, and for a typical 
user is a very embarrassing situation. ~: (
In this case I think 
Debian should look a little closer to Ubuntu, referring to usability. 
You can maintain a perfectly usable OS for both beginners and advanced 
users of Linux technology, without changing the philosophy course 
Debian.
Debian should improve translation linguas.Quando used for 
other help topics were all in English! Despite the selected language is 
Portuguese from Brazil! Project developers should use social networks to
 probe the needs of Debian users (Masters or beginners).Thank you for All

  

Re: debian can be better

[Jesús M. Navarro]

Hi, Pedro Paolo:

On Wednesday 27 October 2010 14:46:08 Pedro Paulo Argolo wrote:
> Debian
>  needs better support video cards from Nvidia and ATI video boards
> Intel. I had configuration problems because of that, and for a typical
> user is a very embarrassing situation. ~: (

You should ask for that to Nvidia.  You can bet the day Nvidia produces proper 
open source drivers will be the day Debian will be able to properly support 
them.

Of course you can think the Ubuntu way is the proper one and Debian's[1] is 
not but, of course too, you are absolutly free to use Ubuntu instead of 
Debian.

Cheers.

[1] http://www.debian.org/social_contract


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Bug#601596: RFH: festival -- General multi-lingual speech synthesis system

[Kumar Appaiah]

Package: wnpp
Severity: normal
X-Debbugs-CC: debian-accessibil...@lists.debian.org

Dear Debian users and contributors,

I request assistance with maintaining the festival (and speech-tools)
package. The package is in a "good" state as of now, but it does have
a TODO list and could do with some love. While I try to do my best
with festival, since I am not familiar with the various sound
subsystems the package seems to depend on, I would be much more
comfortable if someone else steps in to oversee, assist and,
eventually, take over maintenance of the package.

If a team is willing to take over, or a team is formed for this package.

This mail has been sent with permission from the other co-maintainers
as well.

Thanks!

The package description is:
 Festival offers a full text to speech system with various APIs, as well an
 environment for development and research of speech synthesis techniques. It
 includes a Scheme-based command interpreter.
 .
 Besides research into speech synthesis, festival is useful as a stand-alone
 speech synthesis program. It is capable of producing clearly understandable
 speech from text.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 5.0.5
  APT prefers stable
  APT policy: (990, 'stable'), (500, 'unstable'), (500, 'testing'), (1, 
'experimental')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)



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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

[Florian Weimer]

* Samuel Thibault:

> - Base+Standard grew from 397MiB to 491MiB
>   (we install libdb4.{5,6,7,8} !?,

I suspect that this is caused primarily by API and ABI
incompatibility, and in part by the lack of response to bug reports
from upstream.  Everybody who uses Berkeley DB extensively has once
been bitten by a regression.  Often, people outside Sleepycat and
Oracle couldn't fix those bugs in a timely fashion, so the affected
people stay on the version which works for them.  Even upon request,
Oracle does not provide individual patches for bug fixes which have
been applied to subsequent major version.  Their source repository is
totally private, too (if they use version control at all).

On top of that, while there is an environment migration strategy, it
requires a lot of boilerplate code that is hard to get completely
right.  Few applications provide it, so you end up with risky manual
migration procedures and user-visible disk format incompatible.  The
actual data format is extremely stable, except for the DB_HASH format,
which was inferior to DB_BTREE in pre-4.5 (I think) release.  However,
for reasons I don't completely understand, almost all scripting
language bindings for Berkeley DB defaulted to DB_HASH, so we end up
with plenty of pointless disk-format incompatibility, in potentially
large files containing user data where it really, really hurts.

I guess that for most users of Berkeley DB, SQLite would be a better
fit: thread-safe and NFS-safe by default, automatic crash recovery, a
simple API with a stable API and ABI, a commitment to disk format
compatibility, no predetermined limits on transaction size, and the
ability to browse the database using third-party tools.  In the
multiple writers case, SQLite cannot compete with Berkeley DB running
in the Transactional Data Store mode, and it lacks built-in
replication, but how many libdb4.x reverse dependencies set *that* up
correctly?


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Re: Please add my id

[raj.sandia]

raj.san...@gmail.com

Re: debian can be better

[Patrick Matthäi]

Am 27.10.2010 23:32, schrieb Russell Coker:
> On Wed, 27 Oct 2010, Pedro Paulo Argolo  wrote:
>>  needs better support video cards from Nvidia and ATI video boards
>> Intel. I had configuration problems because of that, and for a typical
>> user is a very embarrassing situation. ~: (
> 
> The change from "nv" to "nouveau" was a good improvement for my main system 
> (Thinkpad T61), 2D graphics performance improved noticeably although I do 
> occasionally get transient corrupted bitmaps.  Debian is dedicated to free 
> software (which precludes the non-free NVidia driver from being in main) and 
> I 
> don't want the security risk of running binary-only software on my important 
> systems.

Most desktop users also want to have some 2D/3D performance, or special
features like tv out, xvideo acceleration etc etc.
nouveau is a good replacement for nv, but still far away of being useful
for powerful desktop users.

On the ATI/AMD side, the free radeon driver does a quite good job, but
since it uses KMS you have to disable KMS to get some performance
(radeon+KMS = quite slow)

The security side:
Sure, security issues could be "easily" fixed with open drivers, but if
I remember right, the only security issue with a closed-source prop. X11
video driver was 2-3 years ago with the nvidia one. And if there are
some new sec. issues, you can still switch.

> 
> I am not aware of anything that stops a Debian user from using a binary-only 
> Xorg driver.

Not supported by us, officialy, they are also not on our installation
cds (users have to activate non-free by themselve).

> 
> Intel video cards work really well in my experience, performance is great 
> including on 3D graphics with games such as Warzone 2100, Super Tux Carts, 
> and 
> Tux Racer.  Given a choice I'd just buy a system with Intel graphics.

It may be great with such "historic" games, but don't try to play modern
games with intel HW ;)

> 
>> In this case I think
>> Debian should look a little closer to Ubuntu, referring to usability.
>> You can maintain a perfectly usable OS for both beginners and advanced
>> users of Linux technology, without changing the philosophy course
>> Debian.
> 
> Ubuntu aren't as much into free software.

ACK.

> 
> Speaking for myself I'm more than happy for people who want Debian with non-
> free software to use Ubuntu.  I think that they are doing a great job of 
> making a Debian-derived distribution that supports non-free software and is 
> easy to use.

I do not agree with you at all, but mostly because of some "religion"
reasons :p
Anyway for squeeze there will be (if nothing have been changed again) an
image with some non-free enabled (like firmware foo).


-- 
/*
Mit freundlichem Gruß / With kind regards,
 Patrick Matthäi
 GNU/Linux Debian Developer

E-Mail: pmatth...@debian.org
patr...@linux-dev.org

Comment:
Always if we think we are right,
we were maybe wrong.
*/



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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: debian can be better

[Vincent Bernat]

OoO La nuit ayant déjà recouvert  d'encre ce jour du mercredi 27 octobre
2010, vers 23:48, Patrick Matthäi  disait :

> Most desktop users also want to have some 2D/3D performance, or special
> features like tv out, xvideo acceleration etc etc.
> nouveau is a good replacement for nv, but still far away of being useful
> for powerful desktop users.

nouveau  supports  2D  acceleration  including  compositing  and  Xvideo
acceleration.   I don't  see what  may be  missing for  everyday desktop
use. It  is even better  than the nvidia  driver because of  its perfect
support of xrandr.
-- 
printk("autofs: Out of inode numbers -- what the heck did you do??\n"); 
2.0.38 /usr/src/linux/fs/autofs/root.c


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Description: PGP signature

Re: debian can be better

[Patrick Matthäi]

Am 28.10.2010 00:05, schrieb Vincent Bernat:
> OoO La nuit ayant déjà recouvert  d'encre ce jour du mercredi 27 octobre
> 2010, vers 23:48, Patrick Matthäi  disait :
> 
>> Most desktop users also want to have some 2D/3D performance, or special
>> features like tv out, xvideo acceleration etc etc.
>> nouveau is a good replacement for nv, but still far away of being useful
>> for powerful desktop users.
> 
> nouveau  supports  2D  acceleration  including  compositing  and  Xvideo
> acceleration.   I don't  see what  may be  missing for  everyday desktop
> use. It  is even better  than the nvidia  driver because of  its perfect
> support of xrandr.

I am not nvidia'ish, but supporting 2D/3D acceleration is a *must have*
in my eyes since many years. The performance of nouveau just sucks. Yeah
if you do not need it, okay..

-- 
/*
Mit freundlichem Gruß / With kind regards,
 Patrick Matthäi
 GNU/Linux Debian Developer

E-Mail: pmatth...@debian.org
patr...@linux-dev.org

Comment:
Always if we think we are right,
we were maybe wrong.
*/



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

[Bernd Zeimetz]

On 10/27/2010 06:11 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> Is netatalk STILL included in the file server task?  Who uses that
> anymore?  The thing takes almost 2 minutes to start at boot (or at
> least if feels like it) and probably no Mac made in a decade has any
> need for it.

It needs two minutes to start only if you don't configure it properly. But yes,
it should go imho.

-- 
 Bernd ZeimetzDebian GNU/Linux Developer
 http://bzed.dehttp://www.debian.org
 GPG Fingerprint: ECA1 E3F2 8E11 2432 D485  DD95 EB36 171A 6FF9 435F


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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

[Bernd Zeimetz]

On 10/27/2010 06:36 PM, Mike Hommey wrote:
> FWIW, it's what worked best when I set up Time Machine over the network.

That sounds like they're using CNIDs then... Indeed netatalk is the only way to
get such things done properly.

-- 
 Bernd ZeimetzDebian GNU/Linux Developer
 http://bzed.dehttp://www.debian.org
 GPG Fingerprint: ECA1 E3F2 8E11 2432 D485  DD95 EB36 171A 6FF9 435F


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Re: debian can be better

[Darren Salt]

I demand that Patrick Matthäi may or may not have written...

> Am 27.10.2010 23:32, schrieb Russell Coker:
>> On Wed, 27 Oct 2010, Pedro Paulo Argolo  wrote:
>>> needs better support video cards from Nvidia and ATI video boards
>>> Intel. I had configuration problems because of that, and for a typical
>>> user is a very embarrassing situation. ~: (
[snip]
> On the ATI/AMD side, the free radeon driver does a quite good job, but
> since it uses KMS you have to disable KMS to get some performance
> (radeon+KMS = quite slow)

... but use a newer kernel and mesa 7.9 (libdrm in squeeze is new enough),
and things will be quite a lot better, at least with the r300 driver. (Also,
setting RADEON_HYPERZ=1 for 3D-using games is likely to improve things a
little; just don't set it for everything.)

[snip]
-- 
| Darren Salt| linux at youmustbejoking | nr. Ashington, | Toon
| using Debian GNU/Linux | or ds,demon,co,uk| Northumberland | back!
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Re: debian can be better

[Ivan Jager]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010, Patrick Matth??i wrote:

Am 27.10.2010 23:32, schrieb Russell Coker:

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010, Pedro Paulo Argolo  wrote:

 needs better support video cards from Nvidia and ATI video boards
Intel. I had configuration problems because of that, and for a typical
user is a very embarrassing situation. ~: (


The change from "nv" to "nouveau" was a good improvement for my main system
(Thinkpad T61), 2D graphics performance improved noticeably although I do
occasionally get transient corrupted bitmaps.  Debian is dedicated to free
software (which precludes the non-free NVidia driver from being in main) and I
don't want the security risk of running binary-only software on my important
systems.


Most desktop users also want to have some 2D/3D performance, or special
features like tv out, xvideo acceleration etc etc.
nouveau is a good replacement for nv, but still far away of being useful
for powerful desktop users.


So, buy a graphics card that supports the features you want rather than 
one that doesn't. That's how the free market works. It is unfortunate when 
you inherit hardware from others or otherwise don't have a choice in the 
matter, but you get what you pay for.


I was also rather embarrassed when I bought a GeForce 2 back in 2002 and 
discovered that Nvidia's idea of "source code" was a small bit of C to 
interface to a binary blob. I'm boycotting them until they either provide 
documentation or release a proper open source driver, and I encourage you 
all to do the same. If you already own an Nvidia card, please poke them 
about it, because they don't think enough people care.


ATI only partially misses out in that I only buy their hardware that is 
old enough to be supported by DRI.



I am not aware of anything that stops a Debian user from using a binary-only
Xorg driver.


Not supported by us, officialy, they are also not on our installation
cds (users have to activate non-free by themselve).


Does Ubuntu or any other distro claim to support it? If you find a bug it 
doesn't seem like they could do much more than tell you to take it up with 
the manufacturer. It's not like anyone other than nvidia can support their 
drivers, so if they don't want to support your favorite distro, that's up 
to them to decide, and up to you to care about.


But, yes, it is unfortunate when you inherit hardware that is only 
supported by closed source drivers/X servers. When will Debian start 
supporting windows graphics drivers so I can use my 3Dlabs cards? ;) 
(Honestly, I would be rather scared if they did.)


Ivan