email accounting with qmail
Hello, i want to do accounting of email transfer volume with qmail. (min. transferred bytes) Is there a way to solve this problem with qmail directly? I don't want to use firewall rules to measure the traffic. thanks, thalunil -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: email accounting with qmail
From: Alex Bihlmaier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 12:29 PM Hello, i want to do accounting of email transfer volume with qmail. (min. transferred bytes) Is there a way to solve this problem with qmail directly? I don't want to use firewall rules to measure the traffic. Check out: qmailanalog isoqlog With kind regards, Met vriendelijke groet, Maurice Lucas TAOS-IT -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What MLM to choose for Domain Technologie Control with Qmail AND Postfix?
Hi ! In february of this year, I've asked here what kind of mailling list manager I should use for Qmail. This was to use it inside my software that controls many programs for hosting already. Since then, DTC has evolved a lot (now it supports Postfix, Courier and Dovecot, as it was supporting only qmail), and I had some experiences (issues ?) with some mailling lists manager already, I'd like to ask here once again what type of MLM I should do the work for. Here is what I found with corresponding lacks: - majordomo: too old, not supported anymore. - ecartis: it doesn't seems to handle virtual hosting nicely, as it requests some aliasing for many mail users (mylist-request, mylist-test, etc...) wich I can't set globaly. Moreover someone told here he had troubles with mime-types and pgp singing of messages. - ezmlm: I'm not sure this one will work with postfix as well. - mailman: This one is just horrible to setup for virtual hosting. It even needs patchs it seems... Maybe sympa would do, but I'm not sure as well. What's good for this one is that it's done by some froggys like me so I can find documentations in french! You'd have to understand that gathering thoses informations about MLM takes a lot of my time that I could use for actualy DOING the job for supporting it. So all helps and advices are welcome. For those who don't know Domain Technologie Contorl, it's the leading Control Panel for hosting in GPL Licence: A GPL web control panel for admin and accounting hosting services Domain Technologie Control (DTC) is a GPL control panel for hosting. Using a web GUI for admin and accounting all hosting services, DTC can delegate the task of creating subdomains, email, and FTP accounts to users for the domain names they own. DTC manages a MySQL database containing all the hosting informations. It has support for many programs (bind 8 and 9 and compatibles, MySQL, Apache 1.3, php4, qmail, postfix 2, courier, dovecot, proftpd, webalizer, mod-log-sql, etc...) thrue config files and/or MySQL plugin (when service is non-critical). It can also generates backup scripts, calculation scripts, and config files using a single system UID/GID, and monitor all trafic accounting per user and per service. Since version 0.12, DTC is fully skinable and translated in 7 language (Chinese, English, Spanish, French, Deuch, German and Russian). DTC has been tested and works well with FreeBSD, Debian stable testing and unstable and now handles SBOX cgi-wrapper to provide chroot environment to users binaries. There is a RPM for DTC that has been done under RedHat 7, but it's not well tested (I need feedback on this one as I don't use RPM based distributions myself). See http://www.gplhost.com/?rub=softwaressousrub=dtc for details of the projects. Contributors may send mail to me, I always welcome and help new contributors. Regards, Thomas GOIRAND P.S: No need to start again a troll here about what is best between Qmail and Postfix... It seems both are good by the way, and that they have a very diferent aproach. MSG_ sent using GPL.Host web _ mail ___| .__ _( ___/__( / |__||(/__( _/__\___ __/ | \___ \_|// |\\____ \____ \ \| | ||/ /_/|/ /|/ /|/ / s!|/ / | |___\||__/|| /|___\___\GPL| Opensource driven| hosting worldwide /_/http://gplhost.com |HOST -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 06:05:33PM +0200, David Zejda wrote: dunno. large messages obviously aren't the ONLY factor, it's a combination of factors - one of which is that the message is large. I have a similar (sometimes, large messages, dialup) problem with OE + Postfix. postfix doesn't do POP, that's the job of whatever POP daemon you're using. Yep, sure, thanks for correction. I'm using courier IMAP [+POP]. I only posted the message to give a support to assumption, that the problem is in O/OE rather then elsewhere (e.g. in Qmail)... David -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
dunno. large messages obviously aren't the ONLY factor, it's a combination of factors - one of which is that the message is large. I have a similar (sometimes, large messages, dialup) problem with OE + Postfix. David -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 06:05:33PM +0200, David Zejda wrote: dunno. large messages obviously aren't the ONLY factor, it's a combination of factors - one of which is that the message is large. I have a similar (sometimes, large messages, dialup) problem with OE + Postfix. postfix doesn't do POP, that's the job of whatever POP daemon you're using. craig -- craig sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] The next time you vote, remember that Regime change begins at home -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
Kris Deugau wrote: Anil Gupte wrote: I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000 SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his POP account, Outlook will hang. It is most likely a corrupted message, since he can delete the messages using a webmail interface, and then continue to download messages. This has happened across Novell IMS, qpopper, UW ipop3d, and Teapop. (In fact, that one Hotmail-originated message that *always* hung OE did so across all but qpopper (which was not in use at the time) *every* time.) Examining the raw message in the mailbox has turned up absolutely NOTHING any time I've met this. :( yep. it happens with any MTA and any POP daemon. that's because the problem is not in the message, the MTA or the POP daemon. it's in outlook. Has anyone run into this problem? I know at least one other ISP having the same problem with some of his customers, but we have not found a solution yet. Any pointers will be appreciated. The only thing I (or my boss) could ever even vaguely point to as a cause for the problem was OE's handling of attachments while it's downloading the message. We never found a real solution, except Don't do that. (ie, Warn people not to send you big attachments) almost right. the problem is that outlook is broken. it's broken in many ways but this specific problem is due to the fact that outlook locks up when downloading large messages. it doesn't have to be an attachment, if the message is too large, then outlook will hang. i don't recall exactly what the definition of large is, but in my experience even medium-length messages will trigger the bug. the only solution is to use a decent mail client. point customer at mozilla thunderbird (IIRC there *IS* a windoze version) - nice GUI mail client without outlook's stupid bugs and without outlook's stupid security holes. and it's free. if they don't like thunderbird there are many others to choose from, but the Golden Rule is Anything But Outlook!. alternatively, get used to occasionally having to manually delete large messages from the mailboxes of people who use outlook. craig -- craig sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] The next time you vote, remember that Regime change begins at home -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [mailinglists] Re: Outlook and Qmail
Hi, i remember that one of our custormers had the same problem. he couldnt connect his outlook to our qmail server, when the message was large. it happens with any MTA and any POP daemon. that's because the problem is not in the message, the MTA or the POP daemon. it's in outlook. no, it wasnt really in outlook, but in the underlying windows mail system. after several debugging sessions they called a windows specialist and he fixed some mysterious broken component in windows. after that, the problem never occoured again... if you like i can ask for the problem around. perhaps someone remembers the exact soloution... regards, philipp -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Outlook and Qmail
FWIW, Outlook fails the POP connection to my ISP, without proceeding to other messages, on all messages that are header-only with no payload, i.e., finish with a single blank line only. I don't know if these are 'valid' messages according to SMTP, but in any case I can see them through the web interface, and after I delete them through the web interface, Outlook is unblocked and able to download other messages. I have always imagined them to be spam attempts gone bad, shrugged my shoulders, and accepted their existence. They occur rarely, roughly one in 5000 messages. Peter K. Peter Klavins [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: John Gonzalez/netMDC admin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 23 July 2004 7:32 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Outlook and Qmail Do me a quick favor and when it happens, grep the message for three +++ signs together... if he's on a dialup modem, I have seen 3 plusses cause the modem to go into the 'guard' and 'hang' the email program. A long shot, but something worth looking into. On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 09:26:22PM -0400, Brian Franco wrote: I have the same problem with redhat sendmail and qpopper did you ever find a solution? Any help would be greatly appreciated I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000 SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his POP account, Outlook will hang. It is most likely a corrupted message, since he can delete the messages using a webmail interface, and then continue to download messages. He has been using McAfee's SpamKiller, but now, even when he turns it off he has the same problem. He has even deleted his account and recreated it (this is a virtual domain, so he can login as Postmaster and do that). Has anyone run into this problem? I know at least one other ISP having the same problem with some of his customers, but we have not found a solution yet. Any pointers will be appreciated. Thanx, Anil Gupte -- John Gonzalez, Tularosa Communications | (505) 439-0200 work JG6416, ASN 11711, [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (505) 443-1228 fax http://www.tularosa.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
Craig Sanders wrote: the problem is that outlook is broken. it's broken in many ways but this specific problem is due to the fact that outlook locks up when downloading large messages. it doesn't have to be an attachment, if the message is too large, then outlook will hang. i don't recall exactly what the definition of large is, but in my experience even medium-length messages will trigger the bug. Mmmh.. If it's inherently Outlook/Outlook Express, why do I have 3 or 4 customers who seem to spend their time sending and receiving ~5-7M video files by email? I've yet to find any one consistent This WILL cause a problem factor, although Outlook/OE are more likely to have trouble, and single large attachments or messages with several medium-large images attached are more likely to have trouble. The one exception I noted in my original reply was one particular message which even caused problems for the Novell IMS webmail client, caused Netscape 4.something to lock up when the message was opened- either via IMAP, or downloaded by POP3 and opened from a local folder, and even caused Pegasus Mail to behave a little oddly. That message happened to have been sent from a Hotmail account, but manual inspection showed absolutely NOTHING that should have caused this behaviour. the only solution is to use a decent mail client. point customer at mozilla thunderbird (IIRC there *IS* a windoze version) - nice GUI mail client without outlook's stupid bugs and without outlook's stupid security holes. and it's free. if they don't like thunderbird there are many others to choose from, but the Golden Rule is Anything But Outlook!. Indeed. One minor advantage I've found to Outlook Express (please note, very definitely *NOT* Outlook!) is that it does a *very* tidy job of sending email messages as attachments- right-click the message, Forward as attachment, and it creates a very well-formed MIME message suitable for extracting the original to feed back into a spam filter. The other advantage, from an ISP perspective, is that it's usually already there on a user's computer, and anything else requires hours and hours of download time, or a software CD for dialup users. :/ alternatively, get used to occasionally having to manually delete large messages from the mailboxes of people who use outlook. Or directing them to the webmail interface and letting them sort out their own mail. g -kgd -- Get your mouse off of there! You don't know where that email has been! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
On Friday 23 July 2004 17:12, Kris Deugau wrote: Craig Sanders wrote: the problem is that outlook is broken. it's broken in many ways but this specific problem is due to the fact that outlook locks up when downloading large messages. it doesn't have to be an attachment, if the message is too large, then outlook will hang. i don't recall exactly what the definition of large is, but in my experience even medium-length messages will trigger the bug. Mmmh.. If it's inherently Outlook/Outlook Express, why do I have 3 or 4 customers who seem to spend their time sending and receiving ~5-7M video files by email? I don't know anything about this specific problem, but you mustn't treat Outlook and Outlook express as the same in this regard. Although Microsoft has treated them both to a more or less similar GUI, I've read that both products are very different underneath. It was said that one, or both, were acquired from takeovers and that Outlook and OE have just about nothing in common. Or at least that's how it all started. Who knows what may have changed since then. So bugs in one are not at all certain to appear in the other (unless of course, it calls an ActiveX or IE function or so) Get your mouse off of there! You don't know where that email has been! Grin ;-) regards, Maarten -- Linux: Because rebooting is for adding hardware. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
Somone wrote: I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000 SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his POP account, Outlook will hang. It is most likely a corrupted message, The only concrete case I've tracked down was Outlook choking on emails with non-ascii characters in the headers ... I don't recall the exact characters or circumstance. There was a patch to courier-imap/pop that solved the problem, not sure if that patch is integrated now or if it's in Debian's courier packages. The same issue might apply to other pop daemons? -- Fraser Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
On Fri, Jul 23, 2004 at 11:12:06AM -0400, Kris Deugau wrote: Craig Sanders wrote: the problem is that outlook is broken. it's broken in many ways but this specific problem is due to the fact that outlook locks up when downloading large messages. it doesn't have to be an attachment, if the message is too large, then outlook will hang. i don't recall exactly what the definition of large is, but in my experience even medium-length messages will trigger the bug. Mmmh.. If it's inherently Outlook/Outlook Express, why do I have 3 or 4 customers who seem to spend their time sending and receiving ~5-7M video files by email? dunno. large messages obviously aren't the ONLY factor, it's a combination of factors - one of which is that the message is large. I've yet to find any one consistent This WILL cause a problem factor, although Outlook/OE are more likely to have trouble, and single large either have i, but since it only ever happens on Outlook and OE, it is an outlook problem. the bug may or may not be deep within windows, i don't know, but only outlook ever triggers it. the closest i have come to finding a cause is the observation that it happens on large messages but never on small ones. my guess is that some buffer used for POP downloading is overflowing. the only solution is to use a decent mail client. point customer at mozilla thunderbird (IIRC there *IS* a windoze version) - nice GUI [...] Anything But Outlook!. Indeed. One minor advantage I've found to Outlook Express (please note, very definitely *NOT* Outlook!) is that it does a *very* tidy job of it's just as broken as Outlook, it still has stupid bugs, and it is a security disaster. alternatively, get used to occasionally having to manually delete large messages from the mailboxes of people who use outlook. Or directing them to the webmail interface and letting them sort out their own mail. g that works too. -- Get your mouse off of there! You don't know where that email has been! with outlook, you don't even need to click on a message for a virus to install itself. the answer is still Don't use outlook. craig -- craig sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] The next time you vote, remember that Regime change begins at home -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
I have the same problem with redhat sendmail and qpopper did you ever find a solution? Any help would be greatly appreciated I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his POPaccount, Outlook will hang. It is most likely a corrupted message, since hecan delete the messages using a webmail interface, and then continue todownload messages. He has been using McAfee's SpamKiller, but now, evenwhen he turns it off he has the same problem. He has even deleted hisaccount and recreated it (this is a virtual domain, so he can login asPostmaster and do that).Has anyone run into this problem? I know at least one other ISP having thesame problem with some of his customers, but we have not found a solutionyet. Any pointers will be appreciated.Thanx,Anil Gupte
Re: Outlook and Qmail
Do me a quick favor and when it happens, grep the message for three +++ signs together... if he's on a dialup modem, I have seen 3 plusses cause the modem to go into the 'guard' and 'hang' the email program. A long shot, but something worth looking into. On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 09:26:22PM -0400, Brian Franco wrote: I have the same problem with redhat sendmail and qpopper did you ever find a solution? Any help would be greatly appreciated I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000 SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his POP account, Outlook will hang. It is most likely a corrupted message, since he can delete the messages using a webmail interface, and then continue to download messages. He has been using McAfee's SpamKiller, but now, even when he turns it off he has the same problem. He has even deleted his account and recreated it (this is a virtual domain, so he can login as Postmaster and do that). Has anyone run into this problem? I know at least one other ISP having the same problem with some of his customers, but we have not found a solution yet. Any pointers will be appreciated. Thanx, Anil Gupte -- John Gonzalez, Tularosa Communications | (505) 439-0200 work JG6416, ASN 11711, [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (505) 443-1228 fax http://www.tularosa.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
new suid-perl debian security update breaks qmail-scanner!
Howdy, I noticed that qmail-scanner-queue refuses to run after the last debian perl update. I tried to install the latest qmail-scanner, but unfortunately the ./configure fails reporting: snip Testing suid nature of /usr/bin/suidperl... Whoa - broken perl install found. Cannot even run a simple script setuid Installation of Qmail-Scanner FAILED Error was: suidperl needs fd script snip I verified that suidperl is indeed suid root. Not sure what's going on. anyone have any ideas? thanks, Dave -- *** David Wilk System Administrator Community Internet Access, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: new suid-perl debian security update breaks qmail-scanner!
El lun, 19-04-2004 a las 19:58, David Wilk escribió:
Howdy,
I noticed that qmail-scanner-queue refuses to run after the last debian
perl update. I tried to install the latest qmail-scanner, but
unfortunately the ./configure fails reporting:
snip
Testing suid nature of /usr/bin/suidperl...
Whoa - broken perl install found.
Cannot even run a simple script setuid
Installation of Qmail-Scanner FAILED
Error was:
suidperl needs fd script
snip
I verified that suidperl is indeed suid root. Not sure what's going on.
anyone have any ideas?
thanks,
Dave
--
***
David Wilk
System Administrator
Community Internet Access, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi all,
this update fixes a security hole in suid-perl and now you cannot exec
it directly from /usr/bin/suidperl, u must call it from perl executable.
So to fix the problem with qmail-scanner u must edit the qmail-scanner's
configure script and replace suidperl with perl in the line where the
variable SUIDEPERL is defined (SUIDPERL=${SUIDPERL:-$dir/perl}).
That's the line 650 in qmail-scanner-1.21st.
This has fixed the problem for me.
Greetings
--
Carlos Solano Lisa
--
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Re: new suid-perl debian security update breaks qmail-scanner!
I did just this (except the 'SUIDPERL=${SUIDPERL:-$dir/perl}' line was
on line 500) and now it's working perfectly. thanks for the post! you
really saved my day.
thanks,
Dave
On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 08:08:36PM +0200 or thereabouts, Debian wrote:
El lun, 19-04-2004 a las 19:58, David Wilk escribi?:
Howdy,
I noticed that qmail-scanner-queue refuses to run after the last debian
perl update. I tried to install the latest qmail-scanner, but
unfortunately the ./configure fails reporting:
snip
Testing suid nature of /usr/bin/suidperl...
Whoa - broken perl install found.
Cannot even run a simple script setuid
Installation of Qmail-Scanner FAILED
Error was:
suidperl needs fd script
snip
I verified that suidperl is indeed suid root. Not sure what's going on.
anyone have any ideas?
thanks,
Dave
--
***
David Wilk
System Administrator
Community Internet Access, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi all,
this update fixes a security hole in suid-perl and now you cannot exec
it directly from /usr/bin/suidperl, u must call it from perl executable.
So to fix the problem with qmail-scanner u must edit the qmail-scanner's
configure script and replace suidperl with perl in the line where the
variable SUIDEPERL is defined (SUIDPERL=${SUIDPERL:-$dir/perl}).
That's the line 650 in qmail-scanner-1.21st.
This has fixed the problem for me.
Greetings
--
Carlos Solano Lisa
--
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with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
***
David Wilk
System Administrator
Community Internet Access, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
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with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
new suid-perl debian security update breaks qmail-scanner!
Howdy, I noticed that qmail-scanner-queue refuses to run after the last debian perl update. I tried to install the latest qmail-scanner, but unfortunately the ./configure fails reporting: snip Testing suid nature of /usr/bin/suidperl... Whoa - broken perl install found. Cannot even run a simple script setuid Installation of Qmail-Scanner FAILED Error was: suidperl needs fd script snip I verified that suidperl is indeed suid root. Not sure what's going on. anyone have any ideas? thanks, Dave -- *** David Wilk System Administrator Community Internet Access, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: new suid-perl debian security update breaks qmail-scanner!
El lun, 19-04-2004 a las 19:58, David Wilk escribió: Howdy, I noticed that qmail-scanner-queue refuses to run after the last debian perl update. I tried to install the latest qmail-scanner, but unfortunately the ./configure fails reporting: snip Testing suid nature of /usr/bin/suidperl... Whoa - broken perl install found. Cannot even run a simple script setuid Installation of Qmail-Scanner FAILED Error was: suidperl needs fd script snip I verified that suidperl is indeed suid root. Not sure what's going on
Re: new suid-perl debian security update breaks qmail-scanner!
I did just this (except the 'SUIDPERL=${SUIDPERL:-$dir/perl}' line was
on line 500) and now it's working perfectly. thanks for the post! you
really saved my day.
thanks,
Dave
On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 08:08:36PM +0200 or thereabouts, Debian wrote:
El lun, 19-04-2004 a las 19:58, David Wilk escribi?:
Howdy,
I noticed that qmail-scanner-queue refuses to run after the last debian
perl update. I tried to install the latest qmail-scanner, but
unfortunately the ./configure fails reporting:
snip
Testing suid nature of /usr/bin/suidperl...
Whoa - broken perl install found.
Cannot even run a simple script setuid
Installation of Qmail-Scanner FAILED
Error was:
suidperl needs fd script
snip
I verified that suidperl is indeed suid root. Not sure what's going on.
anyone have any ideas?
thanks,
Dave
--
***
David Wilk
System Administrator
Community Internet Access, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi all,
this update fixes a security hole in suid-perl and now you cannot exec
it directly from /usr/bin/suidperl, u must call it from perl executable.
So to fix the problem with qmail-scanner u must edit the qmail-scanner's
configure script and replace suidperl with perl in the line where the
variable SUIDEPERL is defined (SUIDPERL=${SUIDPERL:-$dir/perl}).
That's the line 650 in qmail-scanner-1.21st.
This has fixed the problem for me.
Greetings
--
Carlos Solano Lisa
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
***
David Wilk
System Administrator
Community Internet Access, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:04, Anil Gupte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000 SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his Last time I checked the Qmail POP server would append a blank line to the end of each message. Not sure if it's related but it's something to investigate. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:04, Anil Gupte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000 SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his Last time I checked the Qmail POP server would append a blank line to the end of each message. Not sure if it's related but it's something to investigate. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: Outlook and Qmail
Anil Gupte wrote: I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000 SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his POP account, Outlook will hang. It is most likely a corrupted message, since he can delete the messages using a webmail interface, and then continue to download messages. Possible but unlikely- at one point I found a message which would *consistently* hang Outlook Express, but NOT Pegasus Mail, Netscape, or any other MUA I tried. Viewing the message in the webmail system in use at the time worked fine as well. Since then I've had cusomters calling in with similar behaviour from the occasional message - more commonly a large message with several large images, or a video file attached, but occasionally just a short text message as well. Again, Outlook Express (and in some cases, the customer's MS Outlook) will hang on one particular message, but no other MUA does. This has happened across Novell IMS, qpopper, UW ipop3d, and Teapop. (In fact, that one Hotmail-originated message that *always* hung OE did so across all but qpopper (which was not in use at the time) *every* time.) Examining the raw message in the mailbox has turned up absolutely NOTHING any time I've met this. :( Has anyone run into this problem? I know at least one other ISP having the same problem with some of his customers, but we have not found a solution yet. Any pointers will be appreciated. The only thing I (or my boss) could ever even vaguely point to as a cause for the problem was OE's handling of attachments while it's downloading the message. We never found a real solution, except Don't do that. (ie, Warn people not to send you big attachments) -kgd support/sysadmin for ViaNet Pembroke (formerly WebHart Internet) -- Sendmail administration is not black magic. There are legitimate technical reasons why it requires the sacrificing of a live chicken. - Unknown -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
Anil Gupte wrote: I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000 SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his POP account, Outlook will hang. It is most likely a corrupted message, since he can delete the messages using a webmail interface, and then continue to download messages. Possible but unlikely- at one point I found a message which would *consistently* hang Outlook Express, but NOT Pegasus Mail, Netscape, or any other MUA I tried. Viewing the message in the webmail system in use at the time worked fine as well. Since then I've had cusomters calling in with similar behaviour from the occasional message - more commonly a large message with several large images, or a video file attached, but occasionally just a short text message as well. Again, Outlook Express (and in some cases, the customer's MS Outlook) will hang on one particular message, but no other MUA does. This has happened across Novell IMS, qpopper, UW ipop3d, and Teapop. (In fact, that one Hotmail-originated message that *always* hung OE did so across all but qpopper (which was not in use at the time) *every* time.) Examining the raw message in the mailbox has turned up absolutely NOTHING any time I've met this. :( Has anyone run into this problem? I know at least one other ISP having the same problem with some of his customers, but we have not found a solution yet. Any pointers will be appreciated. The only thing I (or my boss) could ever even vaguely point to as a cause for the problem was OE's handling of attachments while it's downloading the message. We never found a real solution, except Don't do that. (ie, Warn people not to send you big attachments) -kgd support/sysadmin for ViaNet Pembroke (formerly WebHart Internet) -- Sendmail administration is not black magic. There are legitimate technical reasons why it requires the sacrificing of a live chicken. - Unknown
Outlook and Qmail
I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000 SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his POP account, Outlook will hang. It is most likely a corrupted message, since he can delete the messages using a webmail interface, and then continue to download messages. He has been using McAfee's SpamKiller, but now, even when he turns it off he has the same problem. He has even deleted his account and recreated it (this is a virtual domain, so he can login as Postmaster and do that). Has anyone run into this problem? I know at least one other ISP having the same problem with some of his customers, but we have not found a solution yet. Any pointers will be appreciated. Thanx, Anil Gupte -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Outlook and Qmail
I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000 SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his POP account, Outlook will hang. It is most likely a corrupted message, since he can delete the messages using a webmail interface, and then continue to download messages. He has been using McAfee's SpamKiller, but now, even when he turns it off he has the same problem. He has even deleted his account and recreated it (this is a virtual domain, so he can login as Postmaster and do that). Has anyone run into this problem? I know at least one other ISP having the same problem with some of his customers, but we have not found a solution yet. Any pointers will be appreciated. Thanx, Anil Gupte
qmail relaying
hi, I must change the machine of a mx. The first one is with qmail and the second with exim. Before the dns propagation, i would like that all the mail who still arrive on the qmail machine will be redirected to the new one. But i don't know qmail... Is it enough to remove the domain from /var/qmail/control/virtualsdomains and put it on rcpthosts ? thanks -- William - http://flibuste.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: qmail relaying
William Dode [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I must change the machine of a mx. The first one is with qmail and the second with exim. Before the dns propagation, i would like that all the mail who still arrive on the qmail machine will be redirected to the new one. But i don't know qmail... Is it enough to remove the domain from /var/qmail/control/virtualsdomains and put it on rcpthosts ? It needs to stay in rcpthosts but you need to create an smtproute to get the mail on the second server. /var/qmail/control/smtproutes should contain a line like: domain.com:eximmx.domain.com Richard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: qmail relaying
Richard Zuidhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: William Dode [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I must change the machine of a mx. The first one is with qmail and the second with exim. Before the dns propagation, i would like that all the mail who still arrive on the qmail machine will be redirected to the new one. But i don't know qmail... Is it enough to remove the domain from /var/qmail/control/virtualsdomains and put it on rcpthosts ? It needs to stay in rcpthosts but you need to create an smtproute to get the mail on the second server. /var/qmail/control/smtproutes should contain a line like: domain.com:eximmx.domain.com thanks -- William - http://flibuste.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
qmail relaying
hi, I must change the machine of a mx. The first one is with qmail and the second with exim. Before the dns propagation, i would like that all the mail who still arrive on the qmail machine will be redirected to the new one. But i don't know qmail... Is it enough to remove the domain from /var/qmail/control/virtualsdomains and put it on rcpthosts ? thanks -- William - http://flibuste.net
Re: qmail relaying
William Dode [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I must change the machine of a mx. The first one is with qmail and the second with exim. Before the dns propagation, i would like that all the mail who still arrive on the qmail machine will be redirected to the new one. But i don't know qmail... Is it enough to remove the domain from /var/qmail/control/virtualsdomains and put it on rcpthosts ? It needs to stay in rcpthosts but you need to create an smtproute to get the mail on the second server. /var/qmail/control/smtproutes should contain a line like: domain.com:eximmx.domain.com Richard
Re: qmail relaying
Richard Zuidhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: William Dode [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I must change the machine of a mx. The first one is with qmail and the second with exim. Before the dns propagation, i would like that all the mail who still arrive on the qmail machine will be redirected to the new one. But i don't know qmail... Is it enough to remove the domain from /var/qmail/control/virtualsdomains and put it on rcpthosts ? It needs to stay in rcpthosts but you need to create an smtproute to get the mail on the second server. /var/qmail/control/smtproutes should contain a line like: domain.com:eximmx.domain.com thanks -- William - http://flibuste.net
Re: Re: Sendmail or Qmail ? ..
Title: Message I saw your post on setting up qmail over drbd. I would love to see how you did it. I'd like to create a how-to on setting up a hybrid cluster (open-mosix and drbd) for qmail. I'd love to know how you setup your cluster. What do your drbd.conf, ha.cf, haresources files look like? Which services do you have heartbeat control? (qmail, spamassassin, ?) I know your probably very busy, but any help would be greatly appreciated. Lucius
Re: Re: Sendmail or Qmail ? ..
El vie, 05-03-2004 a las 12:56, Lucius Junevicus escribió: I saw your post on setting up qmail over drbd. I would love to see how you did it. I'd like to create a how-to on setting up a hybrid cluster (open-mosix and drbd) for qmail. Open Mosix? Isnt that like, autobalanced cluster? Interesting, how does it help a smtp farm as opposed to simple load balancing? I'd love to know how you setup your cluster. What do your drbd.conf, ha.cf, haresources files look like? Which services do you have heartbeat control? (qmail, spamassassin, ?) I know your probably very busy, but any help would be greatly appreciated. This is pretty straighforward. A most mta's Qmail has configurable queue directories and can deliver to maildirs anywhare as well (i use vpopmail as delivery). All you need is to set up your drbd partition as announced in drbd's documentation (engeneer your disks, etc.). Our nodes look like this: Primary DELL 6250 PIV XEON 2.4gh DUal Processor 1GB ram 210GB RAID V SCSI storage Secondary DELL 6250 PIV XEON2.4gh Single processor 1GB ram 210GB RAID V SCSI storage Make a big partition, set up some symlinks to make important directories reside in this partition (i named it data and its mounted on /data): /var/qmail - /data/var/qmail /home/vpopmail - /data/home/vpopmail /webhostingpeople - /data/webhostingpeople /var/lib/mysql - /data/var/lib/mysql /etc/passwd - /data/etc/passwd /etc/group - /data/etc/group etc. HEre is the trick: In the primary server: Install (or mod) everything so that important services boot up without a problem from files in this partition (already using the symlinks and all). Make SHURE you profile every possible path of use that may be related to file access creation, directory creation...etc. In the secondary server: Make a data partition Make shure that data partition is absolutely exactly the same size of the primary. In the primary: In init=1 (make shure all services are OFF) do: tar cf --exclude-from exludedfiles / | ssh -lroot secondary tar xf / In the file excludedfiles you should put /dev/ /var/log /var ...etc...anything that doesnt make sense putting in the failback node (/proc, /sys). This will snapshot the primary onto the secondary. Reboot the secondary, all services should be on and working just as in the primary. If that is the case, youre ready to roll. Make the drbd magic you have to on the /data partition and youre home free. Lucius -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Sendmail or Qmail ? ..
Title: Message I saw your post on setting up qmail over drbd. I would love to see how you did it. I'd like to create a how-to on setting up a hybrid cluster (open-mosix and drbd) for qmail. I'd love to know how you setup your cluster. What do your drbd.conf, ha.cf, haresources files look like? Which services do you have heartbeat control? (qmail, spamassassin, ?) I know your probably very busy, but any help would be greatly appreciated. Lucius
Re: Re: Sendmail or Qmail ? ..
El vie, 05-03-2004 a las 12:56, Lucius Junevicus escribió: I saw your post on setting up qmail over drbd. I would love to see how you did it. I'd like to create a how-to on setting up a hybrid cluster (open-mosix and drbd) for qmail. Open Mosix? Isnt that like, autobalanced cluster? Interesting, how does it help a smtp farm as opposed to simple load balancing? I'd love to know how you setup your cluster. What do your drbd.conf, ha.cf, haresources files look like? Which services do you have heartbeat control? (qmail, spamassassin, ?) I know your probably very busy, but any help would be greatly appreciated. This is pretty straighforward. A most mta's Qmail has configurable queue directories and can deliver to maildirs anywhare as well (i use vpopmail as delivery). All you need is to set up your drbd partition as announced in drbd's documentation (engeneer your disks, etc.). Our nodes look like this: Primary DELL 6250 PIV XEON 2.4gh DUal Processor 1GB ram 210GB RAID V SCSI storage Secondary DELL 6250 PIV XEON2.4gh Single processor 1GB ram 210GB RAID V SCSI storage Make a big partition, set up some symlinks to make important directories reside in this partition (i named it data and its mounted on /data): /var/qmail - /data/var/qmail /home/vpopmail - /data/home/vpopmail /webhostingpeople - /data/webhostingpeople /var/lib/mysql - /data/var/lib/mysql /etc/passwd - /data/etc/passwd /etc/group - /data/etc/group etc. HEre is the trick: In the primary server: Install (or mod) everything so that important services boot up without a problem from files in this partition (already using the symlinks and all). Make SHURE you profile every possible path of use that may be related to file access creation, directory creation...etc. In the secondary server: Make a data partition Make shure that data partition is absolutely exactly the same size of the primary. In the primary: In init=1 (make shure all services are OFF) do: tar cf --exclude-from exludedfiles / | ssh -lroot secondary tar xf / In the file excludedfiles you should put /dev/ /var/log /var ...etc...anything that doesnt make sense putting in the failback node (/proc, /sys). This will snapshot the primary onto the secondary. Reboot the secondary, all services should be on and working just as in the primary. If that is the case, youre ready to roll. Make the drbd magic you have to on the /data partition and youre home free. Lucius
WikiLearn page on Virtual Email Domains (was: Re: qmail or postfix?)
Thomas GOIRAND wrote: Cool ! Don't forget to post here when it's done ! :) I've started a WikiLearn page: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/EmailVirtualDomains Look it over, see what's wrong, misleading, or missing, and fix it. ;-) (It is, after all, a wiki.) regards, Randy Kramer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: qmail or postfix? (was: RE: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?)
- Original Message - From: Ruth A. Kramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 6:48 AM Subject: Re: qmail or postfix? (was: RE: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?) I'd like to try to help (to write an easy understandable configuration for Postfix with virtual domains), but: Thanks ! Someone sent me sutch help from sendmail. A document telling how to do it for few MTAs could be written and for sure would be helpfull for a lot... * I don't know how to do it myself, so if we get good responses here, I'll try to help organize them on a WikiLearn page. Cool ! Don't forget to post here when it's done ! :) I suppose setting up a virtual email domain means getting Postfix to accept mail (for local delivery) for an email address that is not native to the machine hosting the email server. yes For example, if I have an email server named myemailserver.com, but want to receive email for an address like [EMAIL PROTECTED], I then need a virtual email domain? yes. And moreover, it's important that it can be possible to choose where a mailbox will be on the filesystem. A centralised /var/mail with all mbox files in it may not be the best design... Questions: * can I then also send email from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes, with tools like smtp with auth and/or webmail on that server for example. * must rhkramer.com be a registered domain name (I assume so)? Yes, and the MX of that domain must point to that mailserver, otherwise mailserver should reject all message for that domain (that's what qmail do, exept if you do relaying). Regards, Thomas GOIRAND Get a hosting account: http://gplhost.com GPL.Host: Open source hosting worldwide -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: qmail or postfix? (was: RE: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?)
Can someone write here an easy understandable configuration for Postfix with virtual domains ? After some call for help here, none of you that know Posfix did it... there is an easy understandable VIRTUAL_README in postfix docs yet (at least in woody version), so it's not necessary to write another one; moreover on the Net, there are many howtos for specific situations if you run into trouble with the info, let send more specific questions. regards David -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: qmail or postfix? (was: RE: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?)
On Tue, Feb 24, 2004 at 03:29:04PM +0100, Thomas GOIRAND wrote: - Original Message - From: Craig Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 09:34:52PM +0100, Bj?rnar Bj?rgum Larsen wrote: 4. the configuration is truly bizarre.bernstein has his own non-standard directory structures, and a liking for many little files. many of these files are 'magical' - the contents are irrelevant, mere existence of them alters behaviour of the program, and even causes programs to be run automagically. this makes it impossible to experiment by temporarily commenting out particular lines - you have to delete a file, and then hope you can remember what it was called if you need to re-enable that feature. I deseagree on that. I've found qmail's config file a lot more efficient than one stupid unic file, fine. you have every right to be wrong. Can someone write here an easy understandable configuration for Postfix with virtual domains ? After some call for help here, none of you that know Posfix did it... sorry, but it's not our problem if YOU can't understand clear and simple instructions or concepts. virtual domains are a well-documented part of postfix, and have been for years. 5. bernstein likes to reinvent the wheel. he does this (and does it badly) without regard to whether the wheel actually needs to be reinvented or not (e.g. ucspi-tcp). this is compounded by the fact that it is a complete PITA to use any of his programs without using all of his programs. I deseagree a lot on that also. Bernstein has coded ucspi-tcp as a replacement for the standard tcp program. the program you are thinking of is called inetd (or xinetd - another version with resource limitation controls built in). He has the rights to do so, and you have the rights not to use it if you like inetd... of course he has the right to do so. that is beyond question. it was just unneccesary and stupid of him to do so. more to the point, if he's going to reinvent the wheel he should at least try to do a good job - a square wheel isn't any use to anyone. that focus on staying on unix style, you couldn't be more wrong on this point. his programs implement BERNSTEIN-style, not traditional unix style. his programs are about as different from unix style as it's possible for software to be and still run on unix systems. craig -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: qmail or postfix? (was: RE: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?)
- Original Message - From: Craig Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bj?rnar Bj?rgum Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:13 PM Subject: Re: qmail or postfix? (was: RE: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?) On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 09:34:52PM +0100, Bj?rnar Bj?rgum Larsen wrote: 4. the configuration is truly bizarre.bernstein has his own non-standard directory structures, and a liking for many little files. many of these files are 'magical' - the contents are irrelevant, mere existence of them alters behaviour of the program, and even causes programs to be run automagically. this makes it impossible to experiment by temporarily commenting out particular lines - you have to delete a file, and then hope you can remember what it was called if you need to re-enable that feature. I deseagree on that. I've found qmail's config file a lot more efficient than one stupid unic file, and most of the time the only files you have to modify are thoses (read it as file: content. In this example, one and only mailbox is configurated for [EMAIL PROTECTED] has one unic row: -- /var/qmail/control/me: hostname.domain.com one line per domains: - /var/qmail/control/rcpthosts: domain.com /var/qmail/control/virtualdomains: domain.com:domain-com one line per mailbox: - /var/qmail/users/assign: =domain-com-joe:nobody:888:888:path::: /etc/poppasswd: pop_login:crypted_password:real_login:path I use /etc/poppasswd for popauth instead of /etc/passwd (using checklocalpwd password check replacement from Jedi) when I don't want to use SQL... I think it's clear, simple, and efficient. If you want to keep backups, then tar the /var/qmail/control folder and it's done... Can someone write here an easy understandable configuration for Postfix with virtual domains ? After some call for help here, none of you that know Posfix did it... 5. bernstein likes to reinvent the wheel. he does this (and does it badly) without regard to whether the wheel actually needs to be reinvented or not (e.g. ucspi-tcp). this is compounded by the fact that it is a complete PITA to use any of his programs without using all of his programs. I deseagree a lot on that also. Bernstein has coded ucspi-tcp as a replacement for the standard tcp program. He has the rights to do so, and you have the rights not to use it if you like inetd... His code is not well commented, maybe a bit hard to read for non-unix gurus, it's true. But it ends to very a short code, that focus on staying on unix style, eg modular, and reusing existing tools. If you want to have a quick idea of what I'm talking about, have a look at qmail-pop3d.c and you'll understand what it is all about. I've done mysqmail, a bunch of 3 binaries for having pop3 auth using mysql, and smtp + pop3 traffic accounted by domains in mySQL database. See: http://www.gplhost.com/?rub=softwaressousrub=mysqmail For example, Bernstein uses his own puts() function that is NOT the real unix puts() function. The if you want to use the real unix puts(), patching means renaming his puts() into puts2() or something... This does not mean at all it's not well written. It's hard to read, but the resulting code seams to be efficient when you see the C code. On the counter part, I agree totaly on the fact that qmail should include all the add-ons made by lot's of people, like one of thoses dozens of pop alternative authentification. ps: as for postfix being better - it is: 1. free software, with a real free software license (IBM public license) 2. actively developed, with a friendly principal developer and helpful developer user community. 3. backwards compatible with sendmail, so migration is easy 4. secure 5. fast (much faster than qmail) 6. the best anti-spam features of any MTA available 7. more features than you can poke a stick at For sure, I'll spend more time on Postfix soon... :) Best regards, Thomas GOIRAND Get a hosting account: http://gplhost.com GPL.Host: Open source hosting worldwide -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: qmail or postfix? (was: RE: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?)
On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 08:36:08AM +0100, Adrian 'Dagurashibanipal' von Bidder wrote: On Thursday 19 February 2004 23.28, Craig Sanders wrote: On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 09:34:52PM +0100, Bj?rnar Bj?rgum Larsen wrote: For example, I'd like comments on http://homepages.tesco.net/~J.deBoynePollard/Reviews/UnixMTSes/postfix.ht ml a collection of lies, half-truths, and mistruths. Since Bj?rnar was asking for qualified information, let's do the dance for him... well done. you put a lot more effort in than i thought was warranted for tripe like that. the best that can be said about this document is that the author doesn't know what he is talking about. I guess the document was written years ago, when postfix did indeed lack *some* of the features people did expect (one of them being the ability to reject mail instead of bounce it ;-) actually, it is qmail and not postfix that can't 5xx reject mail. qmail has to accept and bounce it.postfix has always been able to reject unwanted mail during the SMTP session (although the relay_recipient_maps option is a relatively recent addition for rejecting unknown relay recipient addresses). BTW, bouncing rather than rejecting contributes significantly to the spam and virus problem. when a virus or spamware encounters a 5xx rejection, it does nothing, it just ignores it and moves on to the next victim address. when qmail accepts and bounces such a mail, it ends up spamming the forged sender address with unwanted bounces (which is also extra work for the qmail system itself - serious consequences during a spammer dictionary attack) http://homepages.tesco.net/~J.deBoynePollard/Reviews/UnixMTSes/qmail.html | host and user masquerading, | virtual users, | virtual domains, | users that are not in /etc/passwd, | SMTP Relay being denied by default, | per-host SMTP Relay control, | consultation of SMTP client blacklist and whitelist databases (using | rblsmtpd from UCSPI-TCP), and | an 8-bit clean SMTP server. postfix does all of these. but qmail doesn't do all of them. in particular, it is not really an 8-bit clean SMTP server. one of the requirements for 8-bit clean-ness is that the MTA translate 8-bit bodies to 7-bit quoted-printable if the mail is being sent to a non-8-bit MTA. qmail doesn't bother to do this. qmail's failure here is quite deliberate. bernstein's intention is to cause breakage for what he sees as obsolete systems. fair enough, they may be obsolete but to deliberately feed them data that you know they can't handle is irresponsible vandalism. it is also an extreme version of his notorious disdain for any kind of backwards-compatibility or migration path. see section 3.1 of http://www-dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de/~ma/qmail-bugs.html and bernstein's own words on the subject: http://cr.yp.to/smtp/8bitmime.html (in fact, the entire qmail-bugs document mentioned above is worth reading) craig -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: qmail or postfix? (was: RE: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?)
[no cc:s necessary, thanks] On Friday 20 February 2004 12.37, Craig Sanders wrote: On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 08:36:08AM +0100, Adrian 'Dagurashibanipal' von Bidder wrote: I guess the document was written years ago, when postfix did indeed lack *some* of the features people did expect (one of them being the ability to reject mail instead of bounce it ;-) actually, it is qmail and not postfix that can't 5xx reject mail. qmail has to accept and bounce it.postfix has always been able to reject unwanted mail during the SMTP session (although the relay_recipient_maps option is a relatively recent addition for rejecting unknown relay recipient addresses). Hmm. Weren't there some early postifx 1.x releases who did by default bounce on unknown users? Or was it something different? I seem to dimly remember some discussions about the possibility to bounce directly in the SMTP dialog instead of bouncing under some circumstances. Anyway, the issue is of purely historic interest - today's postfix does of course reject mail quite early in most, if not all, cases where this is possible. cheers -- vbi -- Do you understand now why we attacked Iraq? Because war is good for the economy, which means war is good for America. Also, since God is on America's side, anyone who opposes war is a godless un-American Communist. -- excerpt from one of those 'joke' mails floating around. pgp0.pgp Description: signature
Re: qmail or postfix? (was: RE: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?)
On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 09:34:52PM +0100, Bj?rnar Bj?rgum Larsen wrote: I am in the process of choosing between postfix and qmail for our mail relays. I've not decided yet. However, I am surprised by the fact that many people who prefer postfix, also enjoy posting unqualified[0] statements[1][2][3] about qmail. If anyone have properly grounded views, please share! I used qmail for several years. One reason I dismissed it from my systems was its source code, which I regarded incoprehensive. For me, it meant whenever found myself in trouble I could not look at the source and trace down the problem, could not fix things I considered bugs and it was impossible to add new or to complete features I missed. DJB's taste to reinvent everything (including libc functions) was also disturbing. There are many supplementary patches to qmail; I suspect the number of machines running the virgin qmail is relatively low. As a consequence, in case you wished to achieve anything non-trivial you need to patch the source with code that's quality is unknown. Since the license prohibits distributing binary packages built from modified source, you must rely on other methods of installation. (On the other hand, once done, it's done for ever; see the next point). The most recent version (1.03) was released in the middle of 1998. (Well, at least you won't have frequent head-ache due to new releases :) bit, adam -- Am I a cleric? | 1024D/37B8D989 Or maybe a sinner? | 954B 998A E5F5 BA2A 3622 Unbeliever?| 82DD 54C2 843D 37B8 D989 Renegade? | http://sks.dnsalias.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: qmail or postfix? (was: RE: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?)
Bjørnar Bjørgum Larsen wrote: I am in the process of choosing between postfix and qmail for our mail relays. I've not decided yet. However, I am surprised by the fact that many people who prefer postfix, also enjoy posting unqualified[0] statements[1][2][3] about qmail. If anyone have properly grounded views, please share! rant Qmail does _everything_ like DJB thinks is the right way: - The FHS doesn't exist - /sbin/init and inetd suck, because they're based on 30 year old design - /rant The biggest problem with qmail is it's license, as it permits to release a secure _and_ feature-rich binary distribution. This may be no big reason for one or two people managing one or two servers, but in an ISP environment I (and many other) prefer to save time by using apt-get install. Another problem is: qmail (at least in standard configuration) is an I/O hog. At one client it was unable to saturate a T1 from a celeron 433 machine with a cheap IDE drive. Postfix in standard configuration outperformed it by factor 5 (and maybe more, since the T1 was saturated then). I was pretty confused about the number of config files. Yes, even Postfix has some, but there's not one config file for each subsystem. (That argument applies to Sam Varchawik's software [Courier MTA/-IMAP] as well). [...] [1] Michael Loftis wrote (about qmail): First is, unless they've made design changes, it's trivial to DoS. Really? How would you DoS qmail? Could the same attack be used to DoS postfix? [2] Michael Loftis also wrote (about qmail): Second, it doesn't scale so well, but unless you're talking upwards of about 3-5k/msgs/hr you might not run into it. Really? Quoting Bernstein quoting Bill Weinman (cr.yp.to/qmail/users.html): Our busiest list is about 250 messages X 1800 subscribers (avg mail deliveries: 450,000 transactions per day). Sendmail was barfing badly on this, and qmail seems to be doing real well. The machine is a Pentium 90 running Linux 2.0.13 with 64Mb of RAM. I have the spawn limit set at 100. I am *very* impressed. How was the qmail that didn't scale well configured? On what hardware? See _my_ #2. Qmail _may_ scale well, but it *doesn't* in standard configuration. Did I mention that nobody with a clean mind runs critical and I/O intensive tasks on such hardware? [3] Craig Sanders wrote: ps: qmail is a bad idea. postfix is better. Your conclusion may be right, but the arguments are missing. Would you please share? I agree. Both statements. Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
qmail or postfix? (was: RE: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?)
I am in the process of choosing between postfix and qmail for our mail relays. I've not decided yet. However, I am surprised by the fact that many people who prefer postfix, also enjoy posting unqualified[0] statements[1][2][3] about qmail. If anyone have properly grounded views, please share! For example, I'd like comments on http://homepages.tesco.net/~J.deBoynePollard/Reviews/UnixMTSes/postfix.html and http://homepages.tesco.net/~J.deBoynePollard/Reviews/UnixMTSes/qmail.html [0] A _qualified_ statement would e.g. be qmail is trivially DoS'ed by sending emails with no subject at a rate of 2 per second. Typical unqualified statements are shown below. [1] Michael Loftis wrote (about qmail): First is, unless they've made design changes, it's trivial to DoS. Really? How would you DoS qmail? Could the same attack be used to DoS postfix? [2] Michael Loftis also wrote (about qmail): Second, it doesn't scale so well, but unless you're talking upwards of about 3-5k/msgs/hr you might not run into it. Really? Quoting Bernstein quoting Bill Weinman (cr.yp.to/qmail/users.html): Our busiest list is about 250 messages X 1800 subscribers (avg mail deliveries: 450,000 transactions per day). Sendmail was barfing badly on this, and qmail seems to be doing real well. The machine is a Pentium 90 running Linux 2.0.13 with 64Mb of RAM. I have the spawn limit set at 100. I am *very* impressed. How was the qmail that didn't scale well configured? On what hardware? [3] Craig Sanders wrote: ps: qmail is a bad idea. postfix is better. Your conclusion may be right, but the arguments are missing. Would you please share? Thanks, :) Bjornar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: qmail or postfix? (was: RE: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?)
http://homepages.tesco.net/~J.deBoynePollard/Reviews/UnixMTSes/postfix.html says at the very bottom: Postfix is only available in source form, not as precompiled or prepackaged binaries. There is a list of FTP sites that hold the source tarball on the official web site. I have apt-get install'd postfix so I suspect this is not true. If this is an error, there may be others. The biggest complaint I've heard about qmail is that its license requires you to install binaries according to the taste of the creator. This means that things are the same on Debian solaris and redhat but also makes it less standard if all you use is one distribution. On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Bjørnar Bjørgum Larsen wrote: I am in the process of choosing between postfix and qmail for our mail relays. I've not decided yet. However, I am surprised by the fact that many people who prefer postfix, also enjoy posting unqualified[0] statements[1][2][3] about qmail. If anyone have properly grounded views, please share! For example, I'd like comments on http://homepages.tesco.net/~J.deBoynePollard/Reviews/UnixMTSes/postfix.html and http://homepages.tesco.net/~J.deBoynePollard/Reviews/UnixMTSes/qmail.html [0] A _qualified_ statement would e.g. be qmail is trivially DoS'ed by sending emails with no subject at a rate of 2 per second. Typical unqualified statements are shown below. [1] Michael Loftis wrote (about qmail): First is, unless they've made design changes, it's trivial to DoS. Really? How would you DoS qmail? Could the same attack be used to DoS postfix? [2] Michael Loftis also wrote (about qmail): Second, it doesn't scale so well, but unless you're talking upwards of about 3-5k/msgs/hr you might not run into it. Really? Quoting Bernstein quoting Bill Weinman (cr.yp.to/qmail/users.html): Our busiest list is about 250 messages X 1800 subscribers (avg mail deliveries: 450,000 transactions per day). Sendmail was barfing badly on this, and qmail seems to be doing real well. The machine is a Pentium 90 running Linux 2.0.13 with 64Mb of RAM. I have the spawn limit set at 100. I am *very* impressed. How was the qmail that didn't scale well configured? On what hardware? [3] Craig Sanders wrote: ps: qmail is a bad idea. postfix is better. Your conclusion may be right, but the arguments are missing. Would you please share? Thanks, :) Bjornar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: qmail or postfix? (was: RE: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?)
On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 09:34:52PM +0100, Bj?rnar Bj?rgum Larsen wrote: [3] Craig Sanders wrote: ps: qmail is a bad idea. postfix is better. Your conclusion may be right, but the arguments are missing. Would you please share? search the archives of this list. MTA comparisons have been discussed many times. i've made the arguments several times before and i'm getting bored of it. to summarise: 1. because qmail is so different from other MTAs, it is a dead-end trap, just like proprietary software. bernstein doesn't believe in making any effort to assist people who were using other MTAs and want to switch - migrating to qmail is a pain, and migrating away from it is just as bad. 2. it has severe licensing problems, which mean that the code basically stagnated years ago. no patches are ever accepted into qmail, and the author doesn't appear to be interested in making any improvements (in his estimation, it is already perfect...ignoring several glaringly obvious faults and lacks). the license means that using qmail is a reversion to the bad old days before free software became ubiqitous - the late 1980s for instance. back then you had to hunt for the original source (easy enough), then hunt for every patch that you needed to make it useful, then apply them (and hope that the patches are compatiblediscovering by trial and error that they can be compatible but only if applied in a particular *undocumented* order), then compile and install it. 3. bernstein insists that you discard years of practice, tools, and techniques and start from scratch. if you don't like it, then you are a moron because bernstein is Always Right so don't complain. 4. the configuration is truly bizarre.bernstein has his own non-standard directory structures, and a liking for many little files. many of these files are 'magical' - the contents are irrelevant, mere existence of them alters behaviour of the program, and even causes programs to be run automagically. this makes it impossible to experiment by temporarily commenting out particular lines - you have to delete a file, and then hope you can remember what it was called if you need to re-enable that feature. it also means that there is no config file containing comments to serve as working reference documentation. 5. bernstein likes to reinvent the wheel. he does this (and does it badly) without regard to whether the wheel actually needs to be reinvented or not (e.g. ucspi-tcp). this is compounded by the fact that it is a complete PITA to use any of his programs without using all of his programs. 6. the author is a rude jerk. this is undisputed, even by those who actually like bernstein's software. craig ps: as for postfix being better - it is: 1. free software, with a real free software license (IBM public license) 2. actively developed, with a friendly principal developer and helpful developer user community. 3. backwards compatible with sendmail, so migration is easy 4. secure 5. fast (much faster than qmail) 6. the best anti-spam features of any MTA available 7. more features than you can poke a stick at -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: qmail or postfix? (was: RE: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?)
On Thursday 19 February 2004 21.56, Dan MacNeil wrote: http://homepages.tesco.net/~J.deBoynePollard/Reviews/UnixMTSes/postfix.ht ml says at the very bottom: Postfix is only available in source form, not as precompiled or prepackaged binaries. There is a list of FTP sites that hold the source tarball on the official web site. I have apt-get install'd postfix so I suspect this is not true. If this is an error, there may be others. I take this to mean that there are no binaries to download from postifx.org itself - all binaries are made by integrators/vendors. This does not mean that making binaries is not allowed. cheers -- vbi -- Der Satire steht das Recht auf Übertreibung zu. Aber sie hat es schon seit langem nicht mehr nötig, von diesem Recht Gebrauch zu machen. -- Gabriel Laub pgp0.pgp Description: signature
Re: qmail or postfix? (was: RE: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?)
On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 09:34:52PM +0100, Bj?rnar Bj?rgum Larsen wrote: For example, I'd like comments on http://homepages.tesco.net/~J.deBoynePollard/Reviews/UnixMTSes/postfix.html a collection of lies, half-truths, and mistruths. the best that can be said about this document is that the author doesn't know what he is talking about. and http://homepages.tesco.net/~J.deBoynePollard/Reviews/UnixMTSes/qmail.html biased bullshit and boosterism. rah rah rah! worship bernstein. craig -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: qmail or postfix? (was: RE: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?)
On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 11:22:54PM +0100, Adrian 'Dagurashibanipal' von Bidder wrote: I take this to mean that there are no binaries to download from postifx.org itself - all binaries are made by integrators/vendors. This does not mean that making binaries is not allowed. Binaries are, indeed, released through vendors. See http://www.postfix.org/packages.html for a listing of various links to packages of postfix. The postfix.org website doesn't have the packages, but links to them all. According to the mirrors, Things are done according to the IBM public license, http://getmyip.com/mirror/pub/LICENSE Read the IBM public license and take it from there. Hope this might help clear up any licensing/packaging issues with postfix. Sorry, I cannot comment as to the status of qmail, since I have chosen to use postfix instead. j -- == + It's simply not | John Keimel+ + RFC1149 compliant!| [EMAIL PROTECTED]+ + | http://www.keimel.com + == pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 09:35:00PM +0100, Joris wrote: Majordomo is good, but I think you'd like mailman better. Web interface for both users and administrators, very configurable, etc. I'd recommend mailman too, but I have to warn for it's archive function. all list managers suck, but in different ways. Afaik mailman is only capable of archiving messages in Mbox format. if only that was true. it's archiving program (pipermail) creates something that is *almost* but not quite mbox. to load the archive into an mbox mail reader (e.g. mutt or elm) you have to open the file in a text editor and change every From_ line so that it conforms to mbox format. Yes, that same dreadfull mbox format that has kept all mail related applications slow for years. you don't know what you're talking about. there is only one circumstance where mbox is slower than maildir, and manipulating archives is not it. reading mail with a crappy pop daemon (like qpopper) that copies the entire mbox to /tmp is where mbox is slower, and that's mostly because qpopper sucks rather than mbox itself sucking. better quality pop daemons (e.g. cucipop or anything newer) are not noticably slower on reasonably-sized mboxes. where maildir shines is when you have many thousands of messages and you need direct access to just one of them. maildir can be much faster at that IFF you're not on a file system that sucks (like ext2 or ext3) - you really need a fs that doesn't suck when you have thousands of files in one directory: xfs or reiserfs, for example. I've had a mailing list's archive grow over a couple 100MB's, and mailman started bogging down the system. (took quite a while to realise what was going on) i have numerous majordomo based list archives, as well as my own personal mail archives, all in mbox format(*). there are no speed problems with any of them. pipermail is broken. (*) mbox is, IMO, a superior format for archiving. one file per archive is better than squillions of little files. craig
Re: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 08:19:20AM -0500, John Keimel wrote: On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 07:17:57AM +0100, Thomas GOIRAND wrote: I wish to implement mailling list management to my software for all virtual domains. DTC uses qmail, so it has to be compatible with it. DTC will generate all config file for the given mailling list manager. Ecartis (formerly known as listar) works pretty well for me, but the documentation for it is _still_ woefully inferior. i still use ecartis for a few hundred lists, but have moved away from it on general principles. it started out with a lot of promise, but very little serious work has been done on it in recent years. one major problem is that it still has serious bugs with mime message attachments, making it useless for any list where subscribers habitually PGP-sign their messages (any geek list is bound to have a few users that do that). i tried using it for the debian-melb list but had to abandon the attempt and switch to majordomo because of this. craig ps: qmail is a bad idea. postfix is better.
Re: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
Thomas, et al -- ...and then Thomas GOIRAND said... % % Hi ! Bonjour! % % As I said in previous post on that mailling list, I'm developping a tool for % website hosting called Domain Technologie Control. [snip] It sounds really good. I hope it rolls out well! % ... % I wish to implement mailling list management to my software for all virtual % domains. DTC uses qmail, so it has to be compatible with it. DTC will % generate all config file for the given mailling list manager. I love ezmlm, which certainly nestles well with qmail. It should also be easy to implement the hooks you need for your software. HTH HAND :-D -- David T-G * There is too much animal courage in (play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * society and not sufficient moral courage. (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mary Baker Eddy, Science and Health http://justpickone.org/davidtg/ Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
Michael, et al -- ...and then Michael Loftis said... % % I'd highly recommend mailman over majordomo.I'm also disinclined to % recommend qmail for a number of reasons. First is, unless they've made Real reasons, or just because you personally prefer something else? % design changes, it's trivial to DoS. Second, it doesn't scale so well, but % unless you're talking upwards of about 3-5k/msgs/hr you might not run into I haven't handled any DoS problems personally, so I can't speak to that (but find it terribly doubtful), but surely you must be trolling with your other arguments. Doesn't scale well? Heavens; it's simple and clean and scales quite nicely, and is very fast. I set up a system recently which handles mail for some 100k users (small, I know) and happily churns out 30k individual messages/hr when sending announcements. There are other large sites handling much more mail, day in and day out, who use qmail, too; surf over to http://qmail.org/ and have a read. But this probably wasn't supposed to turn into an MTA religious war; there is enough potential for that just in the list manager discussion. % it. Postfix has been my general purpose MTA of choice for a good while % now, scales well, robust handling of messages, and can do anything you want % it to. Yes, Postfix is another good choice. Really, anything except Sendmail is an acceptable choice :-) HAND :-D -- David T-G * There is too much animal courage in (play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * society and not sufficient moral courage. (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mary Baker Eddy, Science and Health http://justpickone.org/davidtg/ Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:35:00 +0100, Joris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Nate Duehr wrote: On Feb 15, 2004, at 11:17 PM, Thomas GOIRAND wrote: I heard majordomo was good, is there something better ? I could not find it in debian stable, it seems it is a licence problem... Any sugestions ? Majordomo is good, but I think you'd like mailman better. Web interface for both users and administrators, very configurable, etc. I'd recommend mailman too, but I have to warn for it's archive function. Afaik mailman is only capable of archiving messages in Mbox format. Yes, that same dreadfull mbox format that has kept all mail related applications slow for years. I've had a mailing list's archive grow over a couple 100MB's, and mailman started bogging down the system. (took quite a while to realise what was going on) ..procmail, formail, anyone? ;-) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Converting from Qmail to Postfix
Title: Converting from Qmail to Postfix List Members, I was reading through the advice on mail list managers for Qmail and It seems like a lot of users are using Postfix as their MTA. Can some one post a short 3 step process for converting from Qmail to Postfix please or point to a URL with the details. Stuart Andrews Unix Administrator INVENSYS Corp. 810 Elizabeth Street, Waterloo NSW 2017 Ph: 61 2 8396 3723 Mob: 0421 612 122 Fx: 61 2 9690 1845
Re: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 08:19:20AM -0500, John Keimel wrote: On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 07:17:57AM +0100, Thomas GOIRAND wrote: I wish to implement mailling list management to my software for all virtual domains. DTC uses qmail, so it has to be compatible with it. DTC will generate all config file for the given mailling list manager. Ecartis (formerly known as listar) works pretty well for me, but the documentation for it is _still_ woefully inferior. i still use ecartis for a few hundred lists, but have moved away from it on general principles. it started out with a lot of promise, but very little serious work has been done on it in recent years. one major problem is that it still has serious bugs with mime message attachments, making it useless for any list where subscribers habitually PGP-sign their messages (any geek list is bound to have a few users that do that). i tried using it for the debian-melb list but had to abandon the attempt and switch to majordomo because of this. craig ps: qmail is a bad idea. postfix is better. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
Thomas, et al -- ...and then Thomas GOIRAND said... % % Hi ! Bonjour! % % As I said in previous post on that mailling list, I'm developping a tool for % website hosting called Domain Technologie Control. [snip] It sounds really good. I hope it rolls out well! % ... % I wish to implement mailling list management to my software for all virtual % domains. DTC uses qmail, so it has to be compatible with it. DTC will % generate all config file for the given mailling list manager. I love ezmlm, which certainly nestles well with qmail. It should also be easy to implement the hooks you need for your software. HTH HAND :-D -- David T-G * There is too much animal courage in (play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * society and not sufficient moral courage. (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mary Baker Eddy, Science and Health http://justpickone.org/davidtg/ Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! pgpwKXJuVC0vB.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
Michael, et al -- ...and then Michael Loftis said... % % I'd highly recommend mailman over majordomo.I'm also disinclined to % recommend qmail for a number of reasons. First is, unless they've made Real reasons, or just because you personally prefer something else? % design changes, it's trivial to DoS. Second, it doesn't scale so well, but % unless you're talking upwards of about 3-5k/msgs/hr you might not run into I haven't handled any DoS problems personally, so I can't speak to that (but find it terribly doubtful), but surely you must be trolling with your other arguments. Doesn't scale well? Heavens; it's simple and clean and scales quite nicely, and is very fast. I set up a system recently which handles mail for some 100k users (small, I know) and happily churns out 30k individual messages/hr when sending announcements. There are other large sites handling much more mail, day in and day out, who use qmail, too; surf over to http://qmail.org/ and have a read. But this probably wasn't supposed to turn into an MTA religious war; there is enough potential for that just in the list manager discussion. % it. Postfix has been my general purpose MTA of choice for a good while % now, scales well, robust handling of messages, and can do anything you want % it to. Yes, Postfix is another good choice. Really, anything except Sendmail is an acceptable choice :-) HAND :-D -- David T-G * There is too much animal courage in (play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * society and not sufficient moral courage. (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mary Baker Eddy, Science and Health http://justpickone.org/davidtg/ Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! pgpNDJT6UkUO2.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:35:00 +0100, Joris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Nate Duehr wrote: On Feb 15, 2004, at 11:17 PM, Thomas GOIRAND wrote: I heard majordomo was good, is there something better ? I could not find it in debian stable, it seems it is a licence problem... Any sugestions ? Majordomo is good, but I think you'd like mailman better. Web interface for both users and administrators, very configurable, etc. I'd recommend mailman too, but I have to warn for it's archive function. Afaik mailman is only capable of archiving messages in Mbox format. Yes, that same dreadfull mbox format that has kept all mail related applications slow for years. I've had a mailing list's archive grow over a couple 100MB's, and mailman started bogging down the system. (took quite a while to realise what was going on) ..procmail, formail, anyone? ;-) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case.
Converting from Qmail to Postfix
Title: Converting from Qmail to Postfix List Members, I was reading through the advice on mail list managers for Qmail and It seems like a lot of users are using Postfix as their MTA. Can some one post a short 3 step process for converting from Qmail to Postfix please or point to a URL with the details. Stuart Andrews Unix Administrator INVENSYS Corp. 810 Elizabeth Street, Waterloo NSW 2017 Ph: 61 2 8396 3723 Mob: 0421 612 122 Fx: 61 2 9690 1845
Re: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 El 16/02/2004, a las 8:21, Michael Loftis escribió: I'd highly recommend mailman over majordomo.I'm also disinclined to recommend qmail for a number of reasons. First is, unless they've made design changes, it's trivial to DoS. Second, it doesn't scale so well, but unless you're talking upwards of about 3-5k/msgs/hr you might not run into it. Postfix has been my general purpose MTA of choice for a good while now, scales well, robust handling of messages, and can do anything you want it to. --On Monday, February 16, 2004 07:17 +0100 Thomas GOIRAND [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ezmlm + idx patch works fine for me. Regards - --- Windows eats resources like a Virus... Windows make trouble like a Virus... Windows wil crash your systewm like a Virus... But Windows will never be a Virus... Becaue Viruses are small, very fast and, - they are coded be genius people. - --- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (Darwin) iD4DBQFAMJ20YstIA40wmvsRApRtAJdxj4a6olTWloff9mX7FGwncK7bAJ43DngM YSgshSV8K0c7fJSe+B4RbQ== =MFwf -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
--Monday, February 16, 2004 07:17:57 +0100 Thomas GOIRAND [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi ! As I said in previous post on that mailling list, I'm developping a tool for website hosting called Domain Technologie Control. Maybe check out Sympa. Virtual hosting, very customizable (optional) web interface, text, mysql, ldap backends, multilanguage and more. Packaged for Debian. I use it with Postfix but Qmail is said to work as well | use of your preferred SMTP engine, | e.g. sendmail, qmail or postfix http://www.sympa.org/features.html http://www.sympa.org/doc/html/node2.html#SECTION0022 Cheers, Marcel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
Hi ! As I said in previous post on that mailling list, I'm developping a tool for website hosting called Domain Technologie Control. [Package description] Domain Technologie Control (DTC) is a set of PHP scripts and a web interface that manage a MySQL database that handles all the host information. It generates backup scripts, statistic calculation scripts, and config files for bind, Apache, qmail, and proftpd, using a single system UID/GID. With DTC, you can delegate the task of creating subdomains, email, and FTP accounts to users for the domain names they own, and monitor bandwidth per user and service. http://www.gplhost.com/?rub=softwaressousrub=dtc [/Package description] I wish to implement mailling list management to my software for all virtual domains. DTC uses qmail, so it has to be compatible with it. DTC will generate all config file for the given mailling list manager. I heard majordomo was good, is there something better ? I could not find it in debian stable, it seems it is a licence problem... Any sugestions ? Best regards, Thomas GOIRAND mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get a hosting account: http://gplhost.com GPL.Host: Open source hosting worldwide
Re: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
On Feb 15, 2004, at 11:17 PM, Thomas GOIRAND wrote: I heard majordomo was good, is there something better ? I could not find it in debian stable, it seems it is a licence problem... Any sugestions ? Majordomo is good, but I think you'd like mailman better. Web interface for both users and administrators, very configurable, etc. Nate Duehr, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 El 16/02/2004, a las 8:21, Michael Loftis escribió: I'd highly recommend mailman over majordomo.I'm also disinclined to recommend qmail for a number of reasons. First is, unless they've made design changes, it's trivial to DoS. Second, it doesn't scale so well, but unless you're talking upwards of about 3-5k/msgs/hr you might not run into it. Postfix has been my general purpose MTA of choice for a good while now, scales well, robust handling of messages, and can do anything you want it to. --On Monday, February 16, 2004 07:17 +0100 Thomas GOIRAND [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ezmlm + idx patch works fine for me. Regards - --- Windows eats resources like a Virus... Windows make trouble like a Virus... Windows wil crash your systewm like a Virus... But Windows will never be a Virus... Becaue Viruses are small, very fast and, - they are coded be genius people. - --- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (Darwin) iD4DBQFAMJ20YstIA40wmvsRApRtAJdxj4a6olTWloff9mX7FGwncK7bAJ43DngM YSgshSV8K0c7fJSe+B4RbQ== =MFwf -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
--Monday, February 16, 2004 07:17:57 +0100 Thomas GOIRAND [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi ! As I said in previous post on that mailling list, I'm developping a tool for website hosting called Domain Technologie Control. Maybe check out Sympa. Virtual hosting, very customizable (optional) web interface, text, mysql, ldap backends, multilanguage and more. Packaged for Debian. I use it with Postfix but Qmail is said to work as well | use of your preferred SMTP engine, | e.g. sendmail, qmail or postfix http://www.sympa.org/features.html http://www.sympa.org/doc/html/node2.html#SECTION0022 Cheers, Marcel
Re: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 07:17:57AM +0100, Thomas GOIRAND wrote: I wish to implement mailling list management to my software for all virtual domains. DTC uses qmail, so it has to be compatible with it. DTC will generate all config file for the given mailling list manager. Ecartis (formerly known as listar) works pretty well for me, but the documentation for it is _still_ woefully inferior. There is a mailing list archive one can search though, which tends to make up for some of the documentations shortcomings. It's available in debian/stable. I use it with Postfix, but I'm pretty sure it works with Qmail. I'd be interested to see your software offer different choices to people for MTA - that might be a nice option. Perhaps someone will pick up on it from the Postifx world and create such a thing. HTH j
Re: What is the best mailing list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
On 2/16/04 12:17 AM, Thomas GOIRAND wrote: Domain Technologie Control (DTC) is a set of PHP scripts and a web interface that manage a MySQL database that handles all the host information. It generates backup scripts, statistic calculation scripts, and config files for bind, Apache, qmail, and proftpd, using a single system UID/GID. With DTC, you can delegate the task of creating subdomains, email, and FTP accounts to users for the domain names they own, and monitor bandwidth per user and service. http://www.gplhost.com/?rub=softwaressousrub=dtc [/Package description] Any quota control?? I wish to implement mailling list management to my software for all virtual domains. DTC uses qmail, so it has to be compatible with it. DTC will generate all config file for the given mailling list manager. I heard majordomo was good, is there something better ? I could not find it in debian stable, it seems it is a licence problem... Any sugestions ? I always found Majordomo to be a pain. What about Mailman?? -- Thanks!! David Thurman List Only at Web Presence Group Net
Re: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
Nate Duehr wrote: On Feb 15, 2004, at 11:17 PM, Thomas GOIRAND wrote: I heard majordomo was good, is there something better ? I could not find it in debian stable, it seems it is a licence problem... Any sugestions ? Majordomo is good, but I think you'd like mailman better. Web interface for both users and administrators, very configurable, etc. I'd recommend mailman too, but I have to warn for it's archive function. Afaik mailman is only capable of archiving messages in Mbox format. Yes, that same dreadfull mbox format that has kept all mail related applications slow for years. I've had a mailing list's archive grow over a couple 100MB's, and mailman started bogging down the system. (took quite a while to realise what was going on) -- Greetings Joris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
Hi ! As I said in previous post on that mailling list, I'm developping a tool for website hosting called Domain Technologie Control. [Package description] Domain Technologie Control (DTC) is a set of PHP scripts and a web interface that manage a MySQL database that handles all the host information. It generates backup scripts, statistic calculation scripts, and config files for bind, Apache, qmail, and proftpd, using a single system UID/GID. With DTC, you can delegate the task of creating subdomains, email, and FTP accounts to users for the domain names they own, and monitor bandwidth per user and service. http://www.gplhost.com/?rub=softwaressousrub=dtc [/Package description] I wish to implement mailling list management to my software for all virtual domains. DTC uses qmail, so it has to be compatible with it. DTC will generate all config file for the given mailling list manager. I heard majordomo was good, is there something better ? I could not find it in debian stable, it seems it is a licence problem... Any sugestions ? Best regards, Thomas GOIRAND mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get a hosting account: http://gplhost.com GPL.Host: Open source hosting worldwide -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
On Feb 15, 2004, at 11:17 PM, Thomas GOIRAND wrote: I heard majordomo was good, is there something better ? I could not find it in debian stable, it seems it is a licence problem... Any sugestions ? Majordomo is good, but I think you'd like mailman better. Web interface for both users and administrators, very configurable, etc. Nate Duehr, [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is the best mailling list manager for qmail and Domain Tech. Control ?
I'd highly recommend mailman over majordomo.I'm also disinclined to recommend qmail for a number of reasons. First is, unless they've made design changes, it's trivial to DoS. Second, it doesn't scale so well, but unless you're talking upwards of about 3-5k/msgs/hr you might not run into it. Postfix has been my general purpose MTA of choice for a good while now, scales well, robust handling of messages, and can do anything you want it to. --On Monday, February 16, 2004 07:17 +0100 Thomas GOIRAND [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi ! As I said in previous post on that mailling list, I'm developping a tool for website hosting called Domain Technologie Control. [Package description] Domain Technologie Control (DTC) is a set of PHP scripts and a web interface that manage a MySQL database that handles all the host information. It generates backup scripts, statistic calculation scripts, and config files for bind, Apache, qmail, and proftpd, using a single system UID/GID. With DTC, you can delegate the task of creating subdomains, email, and FTP accounts to users for the domain names they own, and monitor bandwidth per user and service. http://www.gplhost.com/?rub=softwaressousrub=dtc [/Package description] I wish to implement mailling list management to my software for all virtual domains. DTC uses qmail, so it has to be compatible with it. DTC will generate all config file for the given mailling list manager. I heard majordomo was good, is there something better ? I could not find it in debian stable, it seems it is a licence problem... Any sugestions ? Best regards, Thomas GOIRAND mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get a hosting account: http://gplhost.com GPL.Host: Open source hosting worldwide -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Michael Loftis Modwest Sr. Systems Administrator Powerful, Affordable Web Hosting -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: replace Qmail with Exim
pop/imap...courier or Cyrus ??? I'm curious about this one. I've been postponing installing one of these 'till someone with knowledge about both can give some info about the choice. Any other imap/pop servers that are an option? tinus -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: replace Qmail with Exim
On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 23:24, Tinus Nijmeijers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: pop/imap...courier or Cyrus ??? I'm curious about this one. I've been postponing installing one of these 'till someone with knowledge about both can give some info about the choice. Any other imap/pop servers that are an option? Courier uses standard Maildir storage and has good options for authentication by LDAP and other methods. Cyrus uses it's own method of storing mail which makes it unreasonably difficult to write scripts to manipulate mail that has been delivered. This makes the decision very easy for me, I never consider Cyrus. Someone is about to claim that Cyrus delivers huge performance. I've run 250,000 users per mail store using Maildir format, Courier and Qmail, given a choice I'd do it all the same apart from using Postfix instead of Qmail. The hardware was Dell 2U servers that had 4 U160 SCSI hard drives in a RAID-5 and 4G of RAM which cost about $US10K each. That gave a cost of about $0.04 per mail box at hardware prices of a year ago. If I was setting up a new system now I would use umem cards for external journals of journalled file systems with data-journalling and for the queue. Doing this with one of the 5U Dell servers I expect that I could get decent performance for at least 500,000 ISP mail boxes on a $16,000 system with Maildir. Of course these mail users wouldn't be the cable-modem users who mail .doc files to each other all the time. ;) -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: replace Qmail with Exim
On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 13:05, Paulo Ricardo wrote: What is the best tools to work w/ exim ? smtp...exim anti-virus.clamav spam...spamassassin or ??? scanner?? I would recommend the exiscan-acl patch for Exim, which lets you run content checks at smtp time. It has support for both clamav and spamassassin. http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan-acl/ GUI? virtual domains Exim can look up almost any config value from a database, such as MySQL or an LDAP server. This is very powerful and flexible, and lets you set up virtual domain hosting the way *you* want it. When it comes to GUIs I don't know, but since you can store almost anything in a database, it shouldn't be too difficult to write a simple web frontend yourself. You can have a look at vmail-sql, which really is just a basic exim config with some perl scripts for administration. I would recommend you just look at its README file for hints on how to set up virtual hosting using MySQL, and then do your own thing based on it. http://www.ex-parrot.com/~chris/vmail-sql/ webmailHorde+IMP SquirrelMail is also nice, I've always thought IMP was a bit heavy. pop/imap...courier or Cyrus ??? I use Courier IMAP myself. I don't really like how it is configured or works, but I guess that's just a matter of taste. When it comes to performance and reliability it seems to work very well. It also supports at least MySQL lookups. tpop3d is a really nice pop3 server, with support for MySQL/PostgreSQL/LDAP account lookups, TLS/SSL, maildirs and much more. http://www.ex-parrot.com/~chris/tpop3d/ -- Erik Grinaker http://erikg.wired-networks.net This signature has been rot13-encrypted twice, reading it is illegal under the terms of the DMCA. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: replace Qmail with Exim
On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 12:05, Paulo Ricardo wrote: Hi guys We have been using: *snip* We're using something very similar here. qmail/sqwebmail/qmailadmin/vpopmail. We have to be able to do smtp, smtp auth, pop, imap at the very least. Question: What is the best tools to work w/ exim ? I've been looking to replace the above qmail setup with exim/courier, using a mysql backend DB. I considered postfix, but as postfix does home directory lookups on complete email addresses instead of localpart/domain part, and doesn't let you do free-form queries, aliasing domains together looked like it wouldn't be possible without some ugly hack. I'm using http://mail.psknet.com/toaster/ as a starting point for now, and adapting it to meet what I needs. There are some rough web based front ends provided, written in php, but I think these would have to be altered a bit to be useable. The SQL can be a bit complex, but that keeps the database and the rest of the config much simpler and makes it more flexible. You can configure courier to use the same database and tables to find home directories (/home/vmail/domain.com/user/Maildir or wherever) as exim. Preferly a solution w/ support : WebMail+https, all softwares w/LDAP Exim can be configured to use LDAP backend, but I decided against that as none of the schemas seemed to do quite what I wanted when it came to replacing qmail/vpopmail. By the way , does anyone know a how-to, or someting else to guide us ??? The above url has a quite rough but fully featured system. A google for exim pop toaster has quite a few links, and there are many pages on doing similar things with postfix that can be adapted/expanded. As far as I know, there is no defacto howto/guide for this, however. Regards, Steven -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: replace Qmail with Exim
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 11:44:54PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: I've run 250,000 users per mail store using Maildir format, Courier and Qmail, given a choice I'd do it all the same apart from using Postfix instead of Qmail. Does Postfix yet have the ability to handle LDAP users on multiple backends, looking up a user's mailstore from a 'mailhost' attribute, without messing around with scalemail? Last time I looked, it didn't, which is why I chose qmail-ldap for that system... -- Paul Dwerryhouse| PGP Key ID: Amsterdam, The Netherlands (X) - Melbourne, Australia ( ) | 0x6B91B584 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: replace Qmail with Exim
On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 00:37, Paul Dwerryhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 11:44:54PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: I've run 250,000 users per mail store using Maildir format, Courier and Qmail, given a choice I'd do it all the same apart from using Postfix instead of Qmail. Does Postfix yet have the ability to handle LDAP users on multiple backends, looking up a user's mailstore from a 'mailhost' attribute, without messing around with scalemail? I'm not sure. I don't see a problem with scalemail (apart from the fact that I never got it working properly - but I'm sure I could have done so). Last time I looked, it didn't, which is why I chose qmail-ldap for that system... In retrospect it may have been better to just use a single back-end store. At peak load each of the 5 servers were only doing 3M per second (so it was totally seek bound). If you had 25 disks connected to a single server then it would probably handle all the load without any problems. You would need more than 4G of RAM, but that's been available for some time. I think that a server with 25 disks in RAID-5 arrays and two of the 1G umem cards would be able to handle all of Zon's email (1M mail boxes of which 500K are regularly used) with capacity to spare. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: replace Qmail with Exim
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 13:52:02 +0100, Erik Grinaker wrote: I would recommend the exiscan-acl patch for Exim, It is included in the exim4-daemon-heavy package. Ray (a happy exim4 and exim4 backports user) -- sendmail.cf does not resemble line noise. It resembles the result of somebody banging his head on the keyboard. Anybody who has worked with it will understand why. Seth Breidbart in [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
replace Qmail with Exim
Hi guys We have been using: smtp..qmail anti-virusclamav scanner...qmail-scanner webmail...sqwebmail GUI...vqadmin+qmailadmin virtual domains...vpopmail pop/imap..courier-imap list..ezmlm as a mail solution for ours clients who, most part of the time, need a GUI to work. Question: What is the best tools to work w/ exim ? smtp...exim anti-virus.clamav scanner?? webmailHorde+IMP GUI? virtual domains pop/imap...courier or Cyrus ??? lists..mailman spam...spamassassin or ??? Preferly a solution w/ support : WebMail+https, all softwares w/LDAP By the way , does anyone know a how-to, or someting else to guide us ??? thks in advance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
xmail [Re: replace Qmail with Exim]
i'm happily using postfix (virtual domains, maildirs, sasl..), courier imap/pop/sasl, openwebmail, pam.. are there any reasonable advanteges with www.xmailserver.org? Any experiences? Thanks David -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
replace Qmail with Exim
Hi guys We have been using: smtp..qmail anti-virusclamav scanner...qmail-scanner webmail...sqwebmail GUI...vqadmin+qmailadmin virtual domains...vpopmail pop/imap..courier-imap list..ezmlm as a mail solution for ours clients who, most part of the time, need a GUI to work. Question: What is the best tools to work w/ exim ? smtp...exim anti-virus.clamav scanner?? webmailHorde+IMP GUI? virtual domains pop/imap...courier or Cyrus ??? lists..mailman spam...spamassassin or ??? Preferly a solution w/ support : WebMail+https, all softwares w/LDAP By the way , does anyone know a how-to, or someting else to guide us ??? thks in advance
Re: replace Qmail with Exim
On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 23:24, Tinus Nijmeijers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: pop/imap...courier or Cyrus ??? I'm curious about this one. I've been postponing installing one of these 'till someone with knowledge about both can give some info about the choice. Any other imap/pop servers that are an option? Courier uses standard Maildir storage and has good options for authentication by LDAP and other methods. Cyrus uses it's own method of storing mail which makes it unreasonably difficult to write scripts to manipulate mail that has been delivered. This makes the decision very easy for me, I never consider Cyrus. Someone is about to claim that Cyrus delivers huge performance. I've run 250,000 users per mail store using Maildir format, Courier and Qmail, given a choice I'd do it all the same apart from using Postfix instead of Qmail. The hardware was Dell 2U servers that had 4 U160 SCSI hard drives in a RAID-5 and 4G of RAM which cost about $US10K each. That gave a cost of about $0.04 per mail box at hardware prices of a year ago. If I was setting up a new system now I would use umem cards for external journals of journalled file systems with data-journalling and for the queue. Doing this with one of the 5U Dell servers I expect that I could get decent performance for at least 500,000 ISP mail boxes on a $16,000 system with Maildir. Of course these mail users wouldn't be the cable-modem users who mail .doc files to each other all the time. ;) -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: replace Qmail with Exim
On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 13:05, Paulo Ricardo wrote: What is the best tools to work w/ exim ? smtp...exim anti-virus.clamav spam...spamassassin or ??? scanner?? I would recommend the exiscan-acl patch for Exim, which lets you run content checks at smtp time. It has support for both clamav and spamassassin. http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan-acl/ GUI? virtual domains Exim can look up almost any config value from a database, such as MySQL or an LDAP server. This is very powerful and flexible, and lets you set up virtual domain hosting the way *you* want it. When it comes to GUIs I don't know, but since you can store almost anything in a database, it shouldn't be too difficult to write a simple web frontend yourself. You can have a look at vmail-sql, which really is just a basic exim config with some perl scripts for administration. I would recommend you just look at its README file for hints on how to set up virtual hosting using MySQL, and then do your own thing based on it. http://www.ex-parrot.com/~chris/vmail-sql/ webmailHorde+IMP SquirrelMail is also nice, I've always thought IMP was a bit heavy. pop/imap...courier or Cyrus ??? I use Courier IMAP myself. I don't really like how it is configured or works, but I guess that's just a matter of taste. When it comes to performance and reliability it seems to work very well. It also supports at least MySQL lookups. tpop3d is a really nice pop3 server, with support for MySQL/PostgreSQL/LDAP account lookups, TLS/SSL, maildirs and much more. http://www.ex-parrot.com/~chris/tpop3d/ -- Erik Grinaker http://erikg.wired-networks.net This signature has been rot13-encrypted twice, reading it is illegal under the terms of the DMCA.
Re: replace Qmail with Exim
On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 12:05, Paulo Ricardo wrote: Hi guys We have been using: *snip* We're using something very similar here. qmail/sqwebmail/qmailadmin/vpopmail. We have to be able to do smtp, smtp auth, pop, imap at the very least. Question: What is the best tools to work w/ exim ? I've been looking to replace the above qmail setup with exim/courier, using a mysql backend DB. I considered postfix, but as postfix does home directory lookups on complete email addresses instead of localpart/domain part, and doesn't let you do free-form queries, aliasing domains together looked like it wouldn't be possible without some ugly hack. I'm using http://mail.psknet.com/toaster/ as a starting point for now, and adapting it to meet what I needs. There are some rough web based front ends provided, written in php, but I think these would have to be altered a bit to be useable. The SQL can be a bit complex, but that keeps the database and the rest of the config much simpler and makes it more flexible. You can configure courier to use the same database and tables to find home directories (/home/vmail/domain.com/user/Maildir or wherever) as exim. Preferly a solution w/ support : WebMail+https, all softwares w/LDAP Exim can be configured to use LDAP backend, but I decided against that as none of the schemas seemed to do quite what I wanted when it came to replacing qmail/vpopmail. By the way , does anyone know a how-to, or someting else to guide us ??? The above url has a quite rough but fully featured system. A google for exim pop toaster has quite a few links, and there are many pages on doing similar things with postfix that can be adapted/expanded. As far as I know, there is no defacto howto/guide for this, however. Regards, Steven
Re: replace Qmail with Exim
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 11:44:54PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: I've run 250,000 users per mail store using Maildir format, Courier and Qmail, given a choice I'd do it all the same apart from using Postfix instead of Qmail. Does Postfix yet have the ability to handle LDAP users on multiple backends, looking up a user's mailstore from a 'mailhost' attribute, without messing around with scalemail? Last time I looked, it didn't, which is why I chose qmail-ldap for that system... -- Paul Dwerryhouse| PGP Key ID: Amsterdam, The Netherlands (X) - Melbourne, Australia ( ) | 0x6B91B584
Re: replace Qmail with Exim
On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 00:37, Paul Dwerryhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 11:44:54PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: I've run 250,000 users per mail store using Maildir format, Courier and Qmail, given a choice I'd do it all the same apart from using Postfix instead of Qmail. Does Postfix yet have the ability to handle LDAP users on multiple backends, looking up a user's mailstore from a 'mailhost' attribute, without messing around with scalemail? I'm not sure. I don't see a problem with scalemail (apart from the fact that I never got it working properly - but I'm sure I could have done so). Last time I looked, it didn't, which is why I chose qmail-ldap for that system... In retrospect it may have been better to just use a single back-end store. At peak load each of the 5 servers were only doing 3M per second (so it was totally seek bound). If you had 25 disks connected to a single server then it would probably handle all the load without any problems. You would need more than 4G of RAM, but that's been available for some time. I think that a server with 25 disks in RAID-5 arrays and two of the 1G umem cards would be able to handle all of Zon's email (1M mail boxes of which 500K are regularly used) with capacity to spare. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: replace Qmail with Exim
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 13:52:02 +0100, Erik Grinaker wrote: I would recommend the exiscan-acl patch for Exim, It is included in the exim4-daemon-heavy package. Ray (a happy exim4 and exim4 backports user) -- sendmail.cf does not resemble line noise. It resembles the result of somebody banging his head on the keyboard. Anybody who has worked with it will understand why. Seth Breidbart in [EMAIL PROTECTED]
xmail [Re: replace Qmail with Exim]
i'm happily using postfix (virtual domains, maildirs, sasl..), courier imap/pop/sasl, openwebmail, pam.. are there any reasonable advanteges with www.xmailserver.org? Any experiences? Thanks David
Re: ..fixing ext3 fs going read-only, was : Sendmail or Qmail ? ..
Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..and after a journal death, and fsck, the raid set will be able to re-establish itself, no? Or does the journal do both/all disks in a raid set? The FS doesn't know or care about RAID-anything, as far as I know. Doesn't the FS just tell /dev/hda1, /dev/sda1, or /dev/md1 to write this data to this block. Very oversimplified, I know, but it doesn't seem like RAID should be part of the discussion here (aside from the fact that a RAID1 or RAID5 config *may* reduce the occurance of problems that would bring journaling into play). ..how does the journalling system choose which blocks to work from? What I've been able to see, the journal dies when their super blocks go bad? The filesystem needs the superblock in order to find the journal. If you have a single gigantic filesystem mounted on /, then if the primary superblock is corrupted, the kernel will not be able to mount /, and you're hosed. E2fsck will automatically try the primary superblock, and if that is corrupt, it will try the first backup superblock. Failing that, a human will need to manually try one of the other backup superblocks, if it is corrupted as well. ..this can be tuned to try more blocks before whining for manpower? Ted will know a lot more about this than I do, but I'd think that if the first two superblocks are corrupt, the likelihood of superblock number 3 or whatever being good is pretty low compared to the odds that the drive/parition is shot. Perhaps that's why e2fsck just gives up on the extra superblocks? Of course, then why bother including them? I've had a bunch of Debian systems running on various (sometimes crappy) hardware for years. I've seen very few cases where a superblock was corrupt and e2fsck puked. In each case, it was on a drive that was old enough that it wasn't worth fussing over any more, so I just replaced the drive. Some of the drives are happy running on wintel boxes, others are just paperweights. If your primary superblock is getting corrupted often, then first of all, you should try to figure out why this is happening, and take affirmative actions to prevent them. (The fact that you're reporting marginal power is supremely suspicious; marginal power can cause disk corruptions very easily. Getting higher quality power supplies will help, but a UPS is the first thing I would get.) ..yeah, I'm working on the power bit. ;-) Secondly, you're better off using a small root filesystem that generally isn't modified often. What I normally do is use a 128 meg root filesystem, with a separate /var partition (or /var symlinked to /usr/var), and /tmp as a ram disk. With the root filesystem rarely changing, it's much less likely that it will be corrupted due to hardware problems. Then the root filesystem can come up, and e2fsck can repair the other filesystems. ..yeah, except for /tmp on ramdisk, that's how I do my boxes, and my isp business client is learning his lesson good. ;-) But I repeat, your filesystems shouldn't be getting corrupted in the first place. Using a separate root filesystem is a good idea, and will help you recover from hardware problems, but your primary priority should be to avoid the hardware problems in the first place. - Ted -- _ Rich Puhek ETN Systems Inc. 2125 1st Ave East Hibbing MN 55746 tel: 218.262.1130 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ..fixing ext3 fs going read-only, was : Sendmail or Qmail ? ..
On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 02:01, Rich Puhek wrote: Ted will know a lot more about this than I do, but I'd think that if the first two superblocks are corrupt, the likelihood of superblock number 3 or whatever being good is pretty low compared to the odds that the drive/parition is shot. Perhaps that's why e2fsck just gives up on the extra superblocks? Of course, then why bother including them? In principle it seems to be always a good idea to have more copies of your data than the software knows how to deal with automatically. Then if the software screws up and mangles everything it touches you may still have a chance to manually do whatever is necessary to save it. I recall a story about a tape drive that became damaged in a way that made it destroy every tape put in it. When some data needed to be restored the first tape didn't work, they tried it in a second drive and it was proven to be dead. They got a second backup and repeated the same proceedure... It was only when they were down to their last backup that someone got wise and used a different tape drive for the first attempt, which resulted in the data being read without any errors. In that situation if a tape robot had control then it would certainly have trashed all copies of the data. I can imagine similar things happening to a file system with a dieing hard disk. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ..fixing ext3 fs going read-only, was : Sendmail or Qmail ? ..
On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 03:54:07 +1000, Russell Coker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 02:01, Rich Puhek wrote: Ted will know a lot more about this than I do, but I'd think that if the first two superblocks are corrupt, the likelihood of superblock number 3 or whatever being good is pretty low compared to the odds that the drive/parition is shot. Perhaps that's why e2fsck just gives up on the extra superblocks? Of course, then why bother including them? In principle it seems to be always a good idea to have more copies of your data than the software knows how to deal with automatically. Then if the software screws up and mangles everything it touches you may still have a chance to manually do whatever is necessary to save it. I recall a story about a tape drive that became damaged in a way that made it destroy every tape put in it. When some data needed to be restored the first tape didn't work, they tried it in a second drive and it was proven to be dead. They got a second backup and repeated the same proceedure... It was only when they were down to their last backup that someone got wise and used a different tape drive for the first attempt, which resulted in the data being read without any errors. In that situation if a tape robot had control then it would certainly have trashed all copies of the data. I can imagine similar things happening to a file system with a dieing hard disk. ..agreed, but there are vast differences between the first 2, every other and all. ;-) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FS performace with lots of files, was: ..fixing ext3 fs going read-only, was : Sendmail or Qmail ? ..
Cameron Moore wrote: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Russell Coker) [2003.09.10 20:16]: Also you can't have a ReiserFS file system mounted read-only while fsck'ing it. Which makes recovering errors on the root FS very interesting to say the least. What I hate about ext3 is that it doesn't poorly handles dirs with 1000+ files. Haven't seen if they've fixed that yet. There exists a patch (hhttp://people.nl.linux.org/~phillips/htree/ - i think there are other resources out there somewhere ;)) for 2.4.x, but the code should be in the kernel since 2.4.20 for ext2 and for ext3 it seems that it was available before (but there are some 2.4.19-patches out there: http://lwn.net/Articles/11330/) - hopefully somebody can bring some light into this... regards Markus -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ..fixing ext3 fs going read-only, was : Sendmail or Qmail ? ..
On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 02:04:19AM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..I still believe in raid-1, but, ext3fs??? ..how does xfs, jfs and Reiserfs compare? If you have random disk corruptions happening as often as you are, no filesystem is going to be able to help you. The only question is how quickly the filesystem notices *before* user data starts getting irrecovably lost. Ext3 generally tends to be one of the more paranoid filesystems about checking assertions and should never happen cases, although I don't know how it compares to reiserfs, jfs, et. al. There are have certainly been cases in the past where people were convinced that there was a bug in ext2, since other filesystems (minix in this particular case) weren't reporting the problem. But, it turned out to be a buffer cache bug, and it was simply that other filesystems were not doing the appropriate assertion checks, and user data was getting lost; the system administrator was just left in blissful ignorance. Unless you're talking about *software* RAID-1 under Linux, and the ..bingo, I should have said so. fact that you have to rebuild mirror after an unclean shutdown, but that's arguably a defect in the software RAID 1 implementation. On other systems, such as AIX's software RAID-1, the RAID-1 is implemented with a journal, ..but software RAID-1 under Linux is not or did I miss something here? No, software RAID-1 does not do journalling at the RAID level. That means that in the case of a unclean shutdown, the RAID system will need to restablish the mirror. As I said, this is a performance issue, since half the disk bandwidth of the RAID array will be diverted to restablishing the mirror during the unclean shutdown. Note also this is true *regardless* of what filesystem you use, journaling and non-journaling. ..ok, for my throttle boxes, here is where I should honk the horn and divert logging to a log server and schedule a fsck? (And ofcourse just reboot my mailservers on the same error.) For your throttle boxes, do you need to have any writes to your filesystems at all? If what you care about is zero downtime, why not just run syslog over the network, and keep all of your filesystems mounted read/only? Some extreme configurations I've seen (especially where ISP's don't have direct/easy access to their systems at remote POP's), use a read-only flash filesystem, and a ramdisk for /tmp, and no spinning disks at all. This significantly increases reliability caused by disk failures, since the hard drive is often the most vulnerable part of the system, especially in the face of heat vibrations, etc. ..IMHO the debian bootstrap should first read the rpm database and generate a deb database, and then do 'apt-get update \ apt-get dist-upgrade'. _Is_ there such a bootstrap beast? While this would be interesting for those people who are converting from Red Hat to Debian, it's a lot more complicated than that, since you also have to convert over the configuration files; Red Hat and Debian don't necessarily store files in the same location. I generally find that for production systems, it's much safer and simpler to install Debian on a new disk (and on a new system), and then copy over the new configuration files over. That way, you can test the system and make sure everything is A-OK before cutting over something on a production system. (By the way, it seems like 50% of your problems is that you're doing things on the cheap, and yet you still want 100% reliability. If you want carrier-grade reliability, you need to pay a little bit extra, and do things like have hot spares, and installation scripts that allow you to create and configure new servers automatically, without needing manual handwork.) ..256MB, but the disks may be marginal, on the known bad disks I get write errors. I have seen this same error on power blinks, failures lasting for about a 1/3 of a second without losing monitor sync etc on my desktops, once frying a power supply, but usually these blinks cause no harm. Sounds like you have marginal power. Do you have a UPS (preferably a continuous UPS) to protect your systems? If not, why not? (Again, it's a bad idea to expect carrier-grade relaibility when you're not willing pay for the basic high-quality equipment, backup equipment, and devices such as UPS's to protect your equipment.) ..ah. So with a 30GB /var ext3fs raid-1 I would have 25% or 13% consumed by backup copies of the superblock and block group descriptors? It's an order n**2 problem; so it's not a linear relationship. And most people get annoyed by that kind of overhead, long before it gets to 10% or above. ..how does the journalling system choose which blocks to work from? What I've been able to see, the journal dies when their super blocks go bad? The filesystem needs the superblock in order to find the journal. If you have a single gigantic filesystem mounted on /, then if the primary
Re: ..fixing ext3 fs going read-only, was : Sendmail or Qmail ? ..
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:03:17 -0400, Theodore Ts'o [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 02:04:19AM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..I still believe in raid-1, but, ext3fs??? ..how does xfs, jfs and Reiserfs compare? If you have random disk corruptions happening as often as you are, no filesystem is going to be able to help you. The only question is how quickly the filesystem notices *before* user data starts getting irrecovably lost. Ext3 generally tends to be one of the more paranoid filesystems about checking assertions and should never happen cases, although I don't know how it compares to reiserfs, jfs, et. al. ..ok, how about ext3 versus ext2 on raid-1? Unless you're talking about *software* RAID-1 under Linux, and the ..bingo, I should have said so. fact that you have to rebuild mirror after an unclean shutdown, but that's arguably a defect in the software RAID 1 implementation. On other systems, such as AIX's software RAID-1, the RAID-1 is implemented with a journal, ..but software RAID-1 under Linux is not or did I miss something here? No, software RAID-1 does not do journalling at the RAID level. That means that in the case of a unclean shutdown, the RAID system will need to restablish the mirror. ..and after a journal death, and fsck, the raid set will be able to re-establish itself, no? Or does the journal do both/all disks in a raid set? As I said, this is a performance issue, since half the disk bandwidth of the RAID array will be diverted to restablishing the mirror during the unclean shutdown. Note also this is true *regardless* of what filesystem you use, journaling and non-journaling. ..noted, non-issue in my case. ..ok, for my throttle boxes, here is where I should honk the horn and divert logging to a log server and schedule a fsck? (And ofcourse just reboot my mailservers on the same error.) For your throttle boxes, do you need to have any writes to your filesystems at all? If what you care about is zero downtime, why not just run syslog over the network, and keep all of your filesystems mounted read/only? Some extreme configurations I've seen (especially where ISP's don't have direct/easy access to their systems at remote POP's), use a read-only flash filesystem, and a ramdisk for /tmp, and no spinning disks at all. This significantly increases reliability caused by disk failures, since the hard drive is often the most vulnerable part of the system, especially in the face of heat vibrations, etc. ..sounds like an idea. The major point against is geography, I like to arrive at stand-alone one-box solutions, but networked logging is a good way to verify the network status. What is used, ssh tunnels? ..IMHO the debian bootstrap should first read the rpm database and generate a deb database, and then do 'apt-get update \ apt-get dist-upgrade'. _Is_ there such a bootstrap beast? While this would be interesting for those people who are converting from Red Hat to Debian, it's a lot more complicated than that, since you also have to convert over the configuration files; Red Hat and Debian don't necessarily store files in the same location. ..I know. ;-) I generally find that for production systems, it's much safer and simpler to install Debian on a new disk (and on a new system), and then copy over the new configuration files over. That way, you can test the system and make sure everything is A-OK before cutting over something on a production system. ..yeah, my pipe dream. ;-) (By the way, it seems like 50% of your problems is that you're doing things on the cheap, and yet you still want 100% reliability. If you want carrier-grade reliability, you need to pay a little bit extra, and do things like have hot spares, and installation scripts that allow you to create and configure new servers automatically, without needing manual handwork.) ..hey, the isp shop is not mine, and it _is_ a small operation, so I need to grow it so I can charge'em. ;-) These guys are Wintendo convertites, and I do the hard stuff for 'em. ;-) ..256MB, but the disks may be marginal, on the known bad disks I get write errors. I have seen this same error on power blinks, failures lasting for about a 1/3 of a second without losing monitor sync etc on my desktops, once frying a power supply, but usually these blinks cause no harm. Sounds like you have marginal power. Do you have a UPS (preferably a continuous UPS) to protect your systems? If not, why not? (Again, it's a bad idea to expect carrier-grade relaibility when you're not willing pay for the basic high-quality equipment, backup equipment, and devices such as UPS's to protect your equipment.) ..2 different sites, I have marginal power in my lab, but the isp gear is on ups, and that again is on a priority grid feed. ..will be producing my own power on this;
Re: ..fixing ext3 fs going read-only, was : Sendmail or Qmail ? ..
On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 01:36:32AM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: But for an unattended server, most of the time it's probably better to force the system to reboot so you can restore service ASAP. ..even for raid-1 disks??? _Is_ there a combination of raid-1 and journalling fs'es for linux that's ready for carrier grade service? I'm not sure what you're referring to here. As far as I'm concerned, if the filesystem is inconsistent, panic'ing and letting the system get back to a known state is always the right answer. RAID-1 shouldn't be an issue here. Unless you're talking about *software* RAID-1 under Linux, and the fact that you have to rebuild mirror after an unclean shutdown, but that's arguably a defect in the software RAID 1 implementation. On other systems, such as AIX's software RAID-1, the RAID-1 is implemented with a journal, so that there is no need to rebuild the mirror after an unclean shutdown. Alternatively, you could use a hardware RAID-1 solution, which also wouldn't have a problem with an unclean shutdowns. In any case, the speed hit for doing an panic with the current Linux MD implementation is a performance issue, and in my book reliability takes precedence over performance. So yes, even for RAID-1, and it doesn't matter what filesystem, if there's a problem, you should reboot. If you don't like the resulting performance hit after the panic, get a hardware RAID controller. I'm not sure what you mean by this. When there is a filesystem error ..add an healthy dose of irony to repair in repair. ;-) detected, all writes to the filesystem are immediately aborted, which ...precludes reporting the error? No, if you are using a networked syslog daemon, it certainly does preclode reporting the error. If you mean the case where there is a filesystem error on the partition where /var/log resides, yes, we consider it better to abort writes to the filesystem than to attempt to write out the log message to a compromised filesystem. .._exactly_, but it is not reported to any of the system users. A system reboot _is_ reported usefully to the system users, all tty users get the news. The message that a filesystem has been remounted read-only is logged as a KERN_CRIT message. If you wish, you can configure your syslog.conf so that all tty users are notified of kern.crit level errors. That's probably a good thing, although it's not clear that a typical user will understand what to do when they are a told that a filesystem has been remounted read-only. Certainly it is trivial to configure sysklogd to grab that message and do whatever you would like with it, if you were to so choose. If you want to honk the big horn, that is certainly within your power to make the system do that. If you believe that Red Hat should configure their syslog.conf files to do this by default, feel free to submit a bug report / suggestion with Red Hat. of uncommitted data which has not been written out to disk.) So in general, not running the journal will leave you in a worse state after rebooting, compared to running the journal. ..it appears my experience disagrees with your expertize here. With more data, I would have been able to advice intelligently on when to and when not to run the journal, I believe we agree not running the journal is adviceable if the system has been left limping like this for a few hours. How long the system has been left limping doesn't really matter. The real issue is that there may be critical data that has been written to the journal that was not written to the filesystem before the journal was aborted and the filesystem left in a read-only state. This might, for example, include a user's thesis or several year's of research. (Why such work might not be backed up is a question I will leave for another day, and falls into the criminally negligent system administrator category) In general, you're better off running the journal after a journal abort. You have may think you have experiences to the contrary, but are you sure? Unless you snapshot the entire filesystem, and try it both ways, you can't really know for sure. There are classes of errors where the filesystem has been completely trashed, and whether or not you run the journal won't make a bit of difference. The much more important question is to figure out why the filesystem got trashed in the first place. Do you have marginal memory? hard drives? Are you running a beta-test kernel that might be buggy? Fixing the proximate cause is always the most important thing to do; since in the end, no matter how clever a filesystem, if you have buggy hardware or buggy device drivers, in the end you *will* be screwed. A filesystem can't compensate for those sorts of shortcomings. ..and, on a raid-1 disk set, a failure oughtta cut off the one bad fs and not shoot down the entire raid set because that one fs fails. I agree. When is that not happening? ..sparse_super
Re: ..fixing ext3 fs going read-only, was : Sendmail or Qmail ? ..
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Russell Coker) [2003.09.10 20:16]: On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:04, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..I still believe in raid-1, but, ext3fs??? ..how does xfs, jfs and Reiserfs compare? ReiserFS has many situations where file system corruption can make operations such as find / trigger a kernel Oops. Having a file system decide to panic the kernel because your mount options instructed it to (ext3) is one thing. Having the file system driver corrupt random kernel memory and cause an Oops (Reiser) is another. The ReiserFS team's response to such issues has not made me happy so I am removing it from all my machines and converting to Ext3. Can you provide links to your discussions with the ReiserFS team? I'm considering using ReiserFS on some mail servers. Please share your experiences. Also you can't have a ReiserFS file system mounted read-only while fsck'ing it. Which makes recovering errors on the root FS very interesting to say the least. What I hate about ext3 is that it doesn't poorly handles dirs with 1000+ files. Haven't seen if they've fixed that yet. -- Cameron Moore [ Smoking cures weight problems... eventually. ] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
