Re: creating a ProDOS boot diskette

[Richard Lyons]

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 07:54:19AM +0200, Richard Lyons wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 01:04:14AM -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> [...]
> > Hal
> > (Who still misses his Apple //e with a *fully socketed* motherboard, a 
> > whopping 5 MB hard drive and who actually enjoyed programming in 6502 
> > Assembler!)
> 
> ooh, you're making me misty-eyed.  That 6502 Assembler _was_ fun.  And
> the excitement when the upgrade card to 64MB arrived...  

Oops, I mean KB of course.

richard


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Re: creating a ProDOS boot diskette

[Richard Lyons]

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 01:04:14AM -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
[...]
> Hal
> (Who still misses his Apple //e with a *fully socketed* motherboard, a 
> whopping 5 MB hard drive and who actually enjoyed programming in 6502 
> Assembler!)

ooh, you're making me misty-eyed.  That 6502 Assembler _was_ fun.  And
the excitement when the upgrade card to 64MB arrived...  

richard


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Re: command line browser questions: - javascript - lynx history

[Daniel Dalton]

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008, Celejar wrote:


I believe so; you would probably get the source deb and build it
yourself with JS configured.


Will look into that when I get a chance. Thanks.


NN_il_Confusionario that much Javascript content is unnecessary, my


Yes, I agree... I would use firefox if I could, but unfortunately more
sites work with lynx than talk with firefox... :-)


I rarely have any real problems with FF (IW); most of my difficulties
derive from the fact that I am unwilling to install Flash, but my
impression from this list is that there's actually quite good Flash
support via the flash plugin, at least on i386 and possibly other
architectures that can use some sort of wrapper.  What sites give you


Yes, flash is ok on my sighted brothers debian box...


trouble with FF?


Its the fact I'm blind actually, firefox works fine with them... Just orca 
doesn't read them well...
Like firefox and flash and everything would be fine on this box for a 
sighted person since I'm totally blind and use braille and speech that is 
where the problem is...

Either hoping for orca to improve, or hoping for a cmd solution...


great problem is that my consumer wireless AP / switch / router
interfaces all require Javascript, so I can't modify their
configurations from the cli.


Uh... My router seems to work fine, but I mostly ssh in anyway.
Openwrt's web gui seems to be pretty good... :-)


That's fine if your router runs Openwrt; mine (Trendnet TEW-452BRP)


Yes, I know.


isn't listed as supported (but it's also not on the unsupported page).


I wouldn't try it then...

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http://members.iinet.net.au/~ddalton/
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: [OT] How to add fortune output to terminal

[Martin Schulze]

Bob Proulx wrote:
> s. keeling wrote:
> > Another common practice is to set PS1 in .bash_profile, then call
> > .bashrc from .bash_profile.
> >  if [ ! -z "$PS1" ]; then
> 
> The PS1 is set by default for interactive shells and not set for
> non-interactive shells.  So the test for $PS1 works without needing to
> set it.  This is in the default Debian /etc/skel/.bashrc too.
> 
> > The intent being to not clutter up the environment any more than is
> > necessary.
> 
> Note: Some versions of bash read the .bashrc when it determines that
> it is started over a remote shell.  By splitting the .bashrc into an
> interactive and non-interactive section then aliases can be loaded
> over a remote shell and made available to the command while not
> breaking things for a non-interactive environment.  Not that I would
> advocate doing that.  The feature was removed from the bash upstream
> due to various problems.  Debian Etch has patches specifically for
> this situation.  See /usr/share/doc/bash/README.Debian.gz .

Another way to do this is:

if [ -n "$PS1" -a "$TERM" != "dumb" ]; then
  # aliases and the like for interactive use
else
  # non-intreactive
fi

TERM=dumb is set by dumb terminal emulations such as M-x shell in Emacs,
in case you wonder.  Colour definitions should be outside.

Regards,

Joey

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Re: Support for VESA Textmode 132x60

[Joey Schulze]

Luis Ariel Lecca wrote:
>On 04/16/08 11:15, Joey Schulze wrote:
>> I'm seeking information on modern graphic cards (PCI, PCIe) that
>> support VESA BIOS mode 0x010C, a special text mode that works with
>> 132x60 characters. Linux supports this mode when the graphics board
>> provides this particular mode.
> 
>Did you probe using framebuffer ? (which uses graphic mode)...its slower
>than VESA BIOS support...

The framebuffer is irrelevant when you want a text mode, and - as you
write yourself - it's also slower.  The real text mode is the
interesting mode.  

Regards,

Joey

-- 
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Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.


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Re: creating a ProDOS boot diskette

[Mark Allums]

Hal Vaughan wrote:
> On Wednesday 16 April 2008, Ron Johnson wrote:
>> On 04/16/08 21:15, PETER EASTHOPE wrote:
>>> Folk,
>>>
>>> I have a copy of ProDOS-System.zip which unzips
>>> to "Apple II System Disk 3.2.dc".
>>>
>>> Can a Debian make a ProDOS boot diskette?
>>> Should dd work?
>> dd should be able to do it, if the hardware is capable.  But I doubt
>> it, since "PC-style" floppy drives are soft-sector, and IIRC the
>> Apple drives were hard-sector.
>
> I think Apple drives were soft sector,

Apple drives were indeed soft sector, originally, they had 13 sectors, 
then they did a firmware update that increased them to 16 sector.  (The 
"firmware update" involved physically pulling and replacing a socketed 
IC on one of the circuit boards inside the drive.)


There were hardware differences with the "Woz Mazchine" floppy design 
and the IBM compatible design.  An IBM 5 1/4 inch drive could be made to 
 read and write Apple disks with the aid of some extra hardware, it 
involved using a (8-bit) card on the ISA bus and the use of a special 
Y-cable that connected between that card, the floppy controller card, 
and the floppy drive.


The same setup could also be used to defeat any floppy-based 
copy-protection scheme.  I owned one of these (still have it in a closet 
somewhere) and used it to back up games.  The Apple disk reading 
capability came in handy, once.


Mark Allums


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Re: Support for VESA Textmode 132x60

[Joey Schulze]

Ron Johnson wrote:
> > I'm seeking information on modern graphic cards (PCI, PCIe) that
> > support VESA BIOS mode 0x010C, a special text mode that works with
> > 132x60 characters.  Linux supports this mode when the graphics board
> > provides this particular mode.
> > 
> > Unfortunately, not many of current video cards support this VESA mode,
> > thus the nice text mode is not available.
> > 
> > Therefore, I have started a Wiki page to collect information on the
> > availability of this particular text mode in graphic cards:
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > I hope this list is helpful for others who are interested in such a
> > text mode.
> > 
> > If you work with a modern graphics card and have definitive knowledge
> > whether or not this mode is supported, it would be nice to drop me a
> > line or add that information to said page right away on your own.
> 
> Can you remind us how to activate this "on-the-fly" with lilo (so
> that I don't have to edit /etc/lilo.conf?

Sure, just add 'vga=ask' to the kernel commandline.  Just press left or
right shift (both work), select the kernel and add the string.  The
kernel will then ask which VGA mode you'd like to use.  Once you know
the mode number you can safely add it to lilo.conf.

Regards,

Joey

-- 
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Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.


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Re: creating a ProDOS boot diskette

[Hal Vaughan]

On Wednesday 16 April 2008, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 04/16/08 21:15, PETER EASTHOPE wrote:
> > Folk,
> >
> > I have a copy of ProDOS-System.zip which unzips
> > to "Apple II System Disk 3.2.dc".
> >
> > Can a Debian make a ProDOS boot diskette?
> > Should dd work?
>
> dd should be able to do it, if the hardware is capable.  But I doubt
> it, since "PC-style" floppy drives are soft-sector, and IIRC the
> Apple drives were hard-sector.

I think Apple drives were soft sector, since I remember reading the info 
in "Beneath Apple DOS" and "Beneath Apple ProDOS" about how the sectors 
were defined and which bytes were used.  Also some of the games, I 
think, used games with the track and sector layout for copy protection.  
I remember specifically having to hack and remove the copy protection 
on at least one program and it involved editing the sector id codes.

The problem, though, is that Apple disks were not compatible with PC 
drives and I think they had a different type of formatting that 
the "regular"drives didn't deal with (other than hard/soft sector).

I do know there are Apple ][ and //e (and maybe //c) emulators that run 
on Linux and if you have an image of the Apple ROMs, they'll run find 
on Debian.  (I wish I still had the images of the ROMs in my //e -- I 
had a few cool extra features that made debugging and tracing much 
easier.)

Hal
(Who still misses his Apple //e with a *fully socketed* motherboard, a 
whopping 5 MB hard drive and who actually enjoyed programming in 6502 
Assembler!)


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Re: Backports packages in red letters.

[David]

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 4:40 AM, s. keeling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Luca Renaud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>
> >
>  >  Several packages (if not all) in backports.org when we search them in
>  >  http://packages.debian.org/ appear with
>  >  the letters in red: backports(in red),is this a specific warning sign? Or
>  >  just to remember that these packages
>  >  do not have security updates treated as the packages in
>  >  stable?Examples:gnash,gnu-fdisk etc.
>
>  I can't find either of those packages in etch with aptitude search, so
>  I can't find this red lettering you speak of.  What have I missed?
>

I think he's talking about the website. eg, the red "backport" words
on this page:

http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=gnash&searchon=names&suite=all§ion=all

David


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Re: Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[Daniel Burrows]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 08:02:21AM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> was heard to say:
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:57:48PM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 12:38:46AM +0900, Osamu Aoki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > was heard to say:
> ...
> 
> > > You need to tell in NEWS file that local scripts need to add "~n" before
> > > serch string to make it act as before under the new version.
> > 
> >   My question was: are there any such local scripts?  It seems possible
> > to me that someone might have written a script that uses aptitude this
> > way, but I had trouble coming up with an actual reason I'd do that,
> > especially since the output from "aptitude search" is notably bad for
> > scripting.
> > 
> 
> I've hesitated to respond for just this issue. I can't come up with
> any good reason to script an aptitude search. Mainly because, what the
> heck would you do with the output in a script? If you parse the output
> to find a particular package, that sort of implies that you already
> know what the package is and could just (install|hold|purge|whatever)
> it anyway without bothering to search for it. 

  I know that some people have *tried* to write scripts using aptitude
because they filed bugs about how lousy the output format is when used
for this purpose, although you can make it work with, e.g.,

aptitude search -F %p -w 1000 

  I don't know if anyone is using this sort of stuff in practice; from
the replies on this thread, I'd say probably not.

  Daniel


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Re: OT: what scripting language to learn?

[Rich Healey]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 03:23:57AM +0200, s. keeling wrote:
>  
>> I strongly agree, and this knowledge is portable.  All of the *nix
>> tools, including shell, perl, and python, rely on regex
>> understanding.
> 
> One can get along just fine in python without using regex.  I'm living
> proof.  Sure, the regex module lets you do neat one-liners, but I hate
> one-liners especially when I'm tired.
> 
> Doug.
> 
> 

I use python all day every day, and rarely if ever use the re module.

Most of the same stuff can be done with python's (awesome) string libs.
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Re: creating a ProDOS boot diskette

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/16/08 21:15, PETER EASTHOPE wrote:
> Folk,
> 
> I have a copy of ProDOS-System.zip which unzips 
> to "Apple II System Disk 3.2.dc".
> 
> Can a Debian make a ProDOS boot diskette?  
> Should dd work?

dd should be able to do it, if the hardware is capable.  But I doubt
it, since "PC-style" floppy drives are soft-sector, and IIRC the
Apple drives were hard-sector.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

We want... a Shrubbery!!
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=8FHk
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Re: Problem compiling simple C program

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/16/08 20:06, s. keeling wrote:
> Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>  Thanks all for bottom-posting!  But why isn't anyone snipping out
>>  the same, repeating, unnecessary text?
>>
>>  On 04/16/08 10:10, H.S. wrote:
>>> John Salmon wrote:
 Sven Joachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
 news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> On 2008-04-15 20:39 +0200, John Salmon wrote:
>
>> I'm running Debian Etch on a PC. When I try to compile the following
>> (called test.c);
> 
> Well, so did you.  Heal thyself.  :-)

If I snip out the offending text, how could I demonstrate the
un-netiquette?  Akin to medical students not being able to dissect
cadavers to see what tumors look like...

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

We want... a Shrubbery!!
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Re: command line browser questions: - javascript - lynx history

[Celejar]

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:45:30 +1000 (EST)
Daniel Dalton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Apr 2008, Celejar wrote:
> 
> > As I have written in other mails to this list, there is apparently no
> > non GUI browser with proper Javascript support.  While I agree with
> 
> Yes, I haven't found a lot of pages too bad, just youtube mainly...
> If I was to use elinks must I compile from source to get javascript 
> support?

I believe so; you would probably get the source deb and build it
yourself with JS configured.

> What is its javascript like? Does it work with youtube for example?

I have no idea.

> > NN_il_Confusionario that much Javascript content is unnecessary, my
> 
> Yes, I agree... I would use firefox if I could, but unfortunately more 
> sites work with lynx than talk with firefox... :-)

I rarely have any real problems with FF (IW); most of my difficulties
derive from the fact that I am unwilling to install Flash, but my
impression from this list is that there's actually quite good Flash
support via the flash plugin, at least on i386 and possibly other
architectures that can use some sort of wrapper.  What sites give you
trouble with FF?

> > great problem is that my consumer wireless AP / switch / router
> > interfaces all require Javascript, so I can't modify their
> > configurations from the cli.
> 
> Uh... My router seems to work fine, but I mostly ssh in anyway.
> Openwrt's web gui seems to be pretty good... :-)

That's fine if your router runs Openwrt; mine (Trendnet TEW-452BRP)
isn't listed as supported (but it's also not on the unsupported page).

> Daniel Dalton

Celejar
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shrishanidev invites you to join Zorpia

[shrishanidev]

   
Hi !
Your friend shrishanidev from  , just invited you to  his/her  online photo 
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Re: checking life of battery?

[Rich Healey]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Kamaraju S Kusumanchi wrote:
> 1) Is there any way to check the life of a battery on a Dell Inspiron 6400
> E1505? I am using Debian Etch.
> 
> 2) How to find out the number of cells in the battery? The manual says it
> can be "6-cell smart lithium ion" or "9-cell lithium ion". But I am not
> sure which one I have.
> 
> $pwd
> /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0
> 
> $cat alarm
> alarm:   480 mAh
> 
> $cat info
> present: yes
> design capacity: 4800 mAh
> last full capacity:  64548 mAh
> battery technology:  rechargeable
> design voltage:  11100 mV
> design capacity warning: 480 mAh
> design capacity low: 145 mAh
> capacity granularity 1:  48 mAh
> capacity granularity 2:  48 mAh
> model number: DELLRD8576
> serial number:   688
> battery type:LION
> OEM info:Sony
> 
> $cat state
> present: yes
> capacity state:  ok
> charging state:  charged
> present rate:1 mA
> remaining capacity:  64548 mAh
> present voltage: 11947 mV
> 
> thanks
> raju
I'll find my screen backtick for just this if you want.
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=Mez6
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Re: migrating to 64 bit...

[Rich Healey]

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Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 12:32:26PM -0500, Sam Leon wrote:
>> Could one easily upgrade to an amd64 system just by formating /, 
>> reinstalling with the proper arch, and then reinstalling all the apps 
>> that were installed and hopefully all the conf files in /home/user will 
>> be compatible with the arch change of kde and other apps? (of course I 
>> am only talking about if you have /home and a separate partition)
> 
> Only formatting / will only work if you don't have a separte /usr or
> /var... 
> 
> I run amd64 Etch and have an i386 chroot for iceweasel with flash.
> Prior to that I had i386 Sarge on a different box.  The configs in /home
> worked just fine.  I always migrate /etc by hand when I do a new
> install.
> 
> Doug.
> 
> 
I have iceweasel + flash running native on amd64.

it's not adobe's flash, but it works. In fact, i really like the fact
that i have to click "play" to actually download and run the .swf ..
saves noise and bandwidth :)
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Re: Backports packages in red letters.

[s. keeling]

Luca Renaud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
>  Several packages (if not all) in backports.org when we search them in
>  http://packages.debian.org/ appear with
>  the letters in red: backports(in red),is this a specific warning sign? Or
>  just to remember that these packages
>  do not have security updates treated as the packages in
>  stable?Examples:gnash,gnu-fdisk etc.

I can't find either of those packages in etch with aptitude search, so
I can't find this red lettering you speak of.  What have I missed?

(1) phreaque /home/keeling_ egrep -v '^#|^$' /etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://debian.mirror.rafal.ca/debian/ etch main contrib non-free
deb-src http://debian.mirror.rafal.ca/debian/ etch main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ etch/updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/ etch/updates main contrib non-free
deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org etch main


[rafal is kickass quick, thanks rafal!]
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creating a ProDOS boot diskette

[PETER EASTHOPE]

Folk,

I have a copy of ProDOS-System.zip which unzips 
to "Apple II System Disk 3.2.dc".

Can a Debian make a ProDOS boot diskette?  
Should dd work?

Thanks,... Peter E.

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Re: [OT] How to add fortune output to terminal

[s. keeling]

Bob Proulx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>  s. keeling wrote:
> > Another common practice is to set PS1 in .bash_profile, then call
> > .bashrc from .bash_profile.
> >  if [ ! -z "$PS1" ]; then
> 
>  The PS1 is set by default for interactive shells and not set for
>  non-interactive shells.  So the test for $PS1 works without needing to
>  set it.  This is in the default Debian /etc/skel/.bashrc too.

Thanks, didn't know that.  I've always clobbered PS1 first, not caring
what it was set to.  I guess I should instead test to see if it's set
to what I set it to.

> > The intent being to not clutter up the environment any more than is
> > necessary.
> 
>  Note: Some versions of bash read the .bashrc when it determines that
>  it is started over a remote shell.  By splitting the .bashrc into an
>  interactive and non-interactive section then aliases can be loaded
>  over a remote shell and made available to the command while not
>  breaking things for a non-interactive environment.  Not that I would
>  advocate doing that.  The feature was removed from the bash upstream
>  due to various problems.  Debian Etch has patches specifically for
>  this situation.  See /usr/share/doc/bash/README.Debian.gz .

I distinctly remember this behaviour, and its subsequent
disappearance.  Thanks for explaining that.  I wondered why it had
disappeared.


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Re: command line browser questions: - javascript - lynx history

[Daniel Dalton]

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008, Celejar wrote:


As I have written in other mails to this list, there is apparently no
non GUI browser with proper Javascript support.  While I agree with


Yes, I haven't found a lot of pages too bad, just youtube mainly...
If I was to use elinks must I compile from source to get javascript 
support?

What is its javascript like? Does it work with youtube for example?


NN_il_Confusionario that much Javascript content is unnecessary, my


Yes, I agree... I would use firefox if I could, but unfortunately more 
sites work with lynx than talk with firefox... :-)



great problem is that my consumer wireless AP / switch / router
interfaces all require Javascript, so I can't modify their
configurations from the cli.


Uh... My router seems to work fine, but I mostly ssh in anyway.
Openwrt's web gui seems to be pretty good... :-)

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Re: Source code editor

[Nick Boyce]

Tero M�ntyvaara wrote:

I am looking for shell program for source code edition. I have used 
nano, but it isn't enough. I need more "real" IDE like functionalities 
eg constant view of current row number, file browser and selection, 
cutting, pasting and copying functions. 


[You're very brave ... this is a religious issue, often resulting in a 
lot of shouting, but so far you got away with it :-)]


May I suggest you try "joe" ?
http://packages.debian.org/etch/joe

I think it mainly appeals to ancient people like me, who remember 
Wordstar :)   It's a modeless editor : you're always in 'insert' mode, 
but can use Ctrl_ command functions at any time.


The package page says : "Joe has the feel of most PC text editors ... 
Joe can be set up to emulate editors such as Pico and Emacs, along with 
a complete imitation of WordStar".  It seems to emulate Wordstar out of 
the box, so that's how I use it.


It's my favourite curses-style screen editor for console-mode text 
editing, and I install it on every Unix I work upon (Debian, NetBSD, 
HPUX, and Tru64) - there have been binary packages readily available for 
all of them.


It does all the things you mention above, and is generally well-featured 
while also being lightweight. It is, however, just a simple text editor, 
not an IDE.



vi is everywhere, so we have to know how to use it, but I think it's 
horribly unintuitive to use (some say "as user-friendly as a cornered 
rat"), though there are of course nicer forked versions, such as vim. 
emacs is ridiculously cumbersome and over-heavy, but can do anything 
("Eventually Mallocs All Computer System" I think the old joke ran) - 
many people apparently spend their lives inside emacs sessions, rarely 
venturing out to the shell for anything.


"I'm sorry ... I'm sorry ... I'll go now"  ;)


Obviously everyone has their own favourite.

Cheers,
Nick Boyce
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Re: Lenny d-i and KDE

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 08:29:42PM +0100, Michael C wrote:
> Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 1:37 PM, Michael C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>   
>>>  Sorry Andrew --- I didn't make myself nearly clear enough --- is the
>>>  Lenny d-i *net* install CD able to provide for a KDE-only installation?
>>> 
>>
>> The net install includes only the base system. It does not come with
>> KDE, it'll have to be installed later via the internet or other more
>> difficult means.
>
> Oh I see ;) -- I'd envisaged something akin to Etch's net installer
> (which presented an option to download and install the Gnome desktop)
> from when it was still the Testing branch.

there is an option to select the "Desktop" task, but I don't know that
it differentiates between flavors of desktop. I haven't installed in
quite a while now, so I can't speak to that. You should investigate
the `tasksel` command as that's the one that allows these selections. 

Of course, you could just install the base system and then use your
favorite package manager to install the desktop/wm of your choice.

A


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Re: Problem compiling simple C program

[s. keeling]

Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
>  Thanks all for bottom-posting!  But why isn't anyone snipping out
>  the same, repeating, unnecessary text?
> 
>  On 04/16/08 10:10, H.S. wrote:
> > John Salmon wrote:
> >> Sven Joachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> >>
> >>> On 2008-04-15 20:39 +0200, John Salmon wrote:
> >>>
>  I'm running Debian Etch on a PC. When I try to compile the following
>  (called test.c);

Well, so did you.  Heal thyself.  :-)


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Backports packages in red letters.

[Luca Renaud]

Several packages (if not all) in backports.org when we search them in
http://packages.debian.org/ appear with
the letters in red: backports(in red),is this a specific warning sign? Or
just to remember that these packages
do not have security updates treated as the packages in
stable?Examples:gnash,gnu-fdisk etc.

Re: taming resolv.conf

[Bob Proulx]

Digby Tarvin wrote:
> My new /etc/resolv.conf is coming up as:
> nameserver 127.0.0.1

This is correct if you have bind9 installed.  Since this is
automatically detected then I assume that you do have bind9 installed
in order to see this result.  If you remove bind9 then you would see
the DHCP nameserver addresses there.

In which case there is one manual step to installing resolvconf.  You
would need to change:

  include "/etc/bind/named.conf.options";

To this:

  include "/var/run/bind/named.options";

The resolvconf package scripts know about bind9 and if it is installed
then they assume that you want to use it and automatically set up
/var/run/bind/named.options with the nameservers offered by DHCP.

Bob


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Re: Source code editor

[Bob Proulx]

Tero Mäntyvaara wrote:
> I am looking for shell program for source code edition. I have used 
> nano, but it isn't enough. I need more "real" IDE like functionalities 
> eg constant view of current row number, file browser and selection, 
> cutting, pasting and copying functions. I also tried to use motor, but I 
> got segmentation fault after execution... :-/ I am using Etch.

I highly recommend Emacs.  It is a very feature complete editor and
development environment.

Bob


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Re: [OT] How to add fortune output to terminal

[Bob Proulx]

s. keeling wrote:
> Another common practice is to set PS1 in .bash_profile, then call
> .bashrc from .bash_profile.
>  if [ ! -z "$PS1" ]; then

The PS1 is set by default for interactive shells and not set for
non-interactive shells.  So the test for $PS1 works without needing to
set it.  This is in the default Debian /etc/skel/.bashrc too.

> The intent being to not clutter up the environment any more than is
> necessary.

Note: Some versions of bash read the .bashrc when it determines that
it is started over a remote shell.  By splitting the .bashrc into an
interactive and non-interactive section then aliases can be loaded
over a remote shell and made available to the command while not
breaking things for a non-interactive environment.  Not that I would
advocate doing that.  The feature was removed from the bash upstream
due to various problems.  Debian Etch has patches specifically for
this situation.  See /usr/share/doc/bash/README.Debian.gz .

Bob


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Re: Lenny d-i and KDE

[Michael C]

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 1:37 PM, Michael C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

 Sorry Andrew --- I didn't make myself nearly clear enough --- is the
 Lenny d-i *net* install CD able to provide for a KDE-only installation?



The net install includes only the base system. It does not come with
KDE, it'll have to be installed later via the internet or other more
difficult means.


Oh I see ;) -- I'd envisaged something akin to Etch's net installer
(which presented an option to download and install the Gnome desktop)
from when it was still the Testing branch.





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Re: Source code editor

[Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso]

On 16/04/2008, Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It just occurred to me: is AMD64 fully supported in Etch?  (Or am I
>  thinking Sarge?)

Yes, it is. etch was the first Debian distribution to support x86_64.
I guess there were a few kinks in that support.

- Jordi G. H.


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Re: taming resolv.conf

[Digby Tarvin]

Combining the responses to the previous to posters...

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 08:37:30PM +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 05:08:08PM +, Digby Tarvin wrote:
> > Not quite. I only want the static information in the interfaces file.
> > I still want the nameserver address that is supplied by DHCP to be
> > used.
> >
> > I do know how to hardwire a nameserver and IP address if I am not
> > using DHCP, but resolvconf is not really so necessary in that
> > situation.
>
> I don't think the static dns server in the interfaces file will override
> the DHCP provided one, but I can't tell for sure. You will have to read
> the resolvconf docs for this.

I hope it didn't sound like I hadn't bothered to read any documentation ;)

My understanding is that one of the main functions of resolvconf is to
deal with multiple sources of DNS information (such as a mixture of HDCP
and static interfaces in one system) and to merge all the server
addresses and domains into a single resolv.conf - rather than have
the last interface that is brought up to over write the data from
the earlier ones.

Consequently, whilst in my case it is using a sledge hammer to crack a
nut, I seems to be that it should be able to do what I want. That is,
to merge the information obtained by dhcp with a static search domain.

AND...


On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 02:30:39PM -0500, Michael Shuler wrote:
> Digby Tarvin wrote:
> > My /etc/resolv.conf file looked ok, except the DHCP server in my
> > router provides nameserver IP only, no search list.
> >
> > Any suggestions? I do like the idea of having any static nameserver
> > information in the /etc/network/interfaces file with the rest of
> > the network config, so resolvconf would be good if it worked as
> > expected
>
> I do this all in /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf - custom prepended domains for
> search, as well as superseding some rather useless caching resolvers in
> favor of another pair.  Works regardless of whether I use the interfaces
> file, resolvconf, NetworkManager, etc., which all use dhclient in the
> end.  Hope that helps!

Thanks. That might be a workaround. Although I don't think it is ideal
because:

1. I am setting up four systems, and only two are using dhcp. The others
are servers on the local lan, and hence will have static ip addresses.

2. I was hoping to hoping to make these systems fairly interchangeable and
potable, with all of the network configuraiton customizing localized to
the /etc/network/interfaces file..

So I would really like to get to the bottom of why resolvconf is not
honouring the dns server address obtained by dhcp if at all possible.

Regards,
DigbyT


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Flickering mouse pointer (nvidia-glx, Etch, amd64)

[Martin Breguet]

Hi List !

I have a (silly) issue:

I have a Nvidia GeForce 7300.

On a Lenny box, it works "out of the box". On an Etch box, it installs with
Vesa, and once you enable contrib & non-free in the sources.list, you can
install either "nv" or "nvidia-glx".

I am on my amd64 Etch box. Everything is fine, I use the "nvidia-glx"
drivers

...But my mouse's pointer is flickering when apps are loading (!!!), for
instance, when a web-page is loading, or any app (OOo, etc...) is loading...

-Would you guys know how to make the flickering pointer stop ?

Thanks a lot in advance !

Re: Support for VESA Textmode 132x60

[Luis Ariel Lecca]

On 04/16/08 11:15, Joey Schulze wrote:
> I'm seeking information on modern graphic cards (PCI, PCIe) that
> support VESA BIOS mode 0x010C, a special text mode that works with
> 132x60 characters. Linux supports this mode when the graphics board
> provides this particular mode.
   
  Did you probe using framebuffer ? (which uses graphic mode)...its slower than 
VESA BIOS support...

   
-

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Re: Source code editor

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/16/08 15:33, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:
> On 16/04/2008, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On 16/04/2008, Tero Mäntyvaara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>  >  I installed motor in my AMD64 Etch system and after I execute it I get
>>  > "Segmentation fault"... :-/
>>
>> Whoa, etch? You got that on etch? How the hell did such an RC bug get
>>  into etch? First time I hear about it.
> 
> FWIW, the bug is already reported. It's #451816.
> 
> I guess it got through because we're all using vim and Emacs instead
> of motor. I suggest you do likewise. :-)

It just occurred to me: is AMD64 fully supported in Etch?  (Or am I
thinking Sarge?)

- --
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Jefferson LA  USA

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Re: Source code editor

[Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso]

On 16/04/2008, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 16/04/2008, Tero Mäntyvaara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  >  I installed motor in my AMD64 Etch system and after I execute it I get
>  > "Segmentation fault"... :-/
>
> Whoa, etch? You got that on etch? How the hell did such an RC bug get
>  into etch? First time I hear about it.

FWIW, the bug is already reported. It's #451816.

I guess it got through because we're all using vim and Emacs instead
of motor. I suggest you do likewise. :-)

- Jordi G. H.

Re: 2.6.24.4+debian+openvz doesn't work with nvidia-glx

[Alexander GQ Gerasiov]

Oh, problem was in vmalloc. default limit is 128M, but openvz+nvidia
wants ~130 %)
passing vmalloc=256m to kernel boot command line solve the problem.

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Re: Source code editor

[Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso]

On 16/04/2008, Tero Mäntyvaara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  I installed motor in my AMD64 Etch system and after I execute it I get
> "Segmentation fault"... :-/

Whoa, etch? You got that on etch? How the hell did such an RC bug get
into etch? First time I hear about it.

- Jordi G. H.

Re: Support for VESA Textmode 132x60

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/16/08 11:15, Joey Schulze wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm seeking information on modern graphic cards (PCI, PCIe) that
> support VESA BIOS mode 0x010C, a special text mode that works with
> 132x60 characters.  Linux supports this mode when the graphics board
> provides this particular mode.
> 
> Unfortunately, not many of current video cards support this VESA mode,
> thus the nice text mode is not available.
> 
> Therefore, I have started a Wiki page to collect information on the
> availability of this particular text mode in graphic cards:
> 
>   
> 
> I hope this list is helpful for others who are interested in such a
> text mode.
> 
> If you work with a modern graphics card and have definitive knowledge
> whether or not this mode is supported, it would be nice to drop me a
> line or add that information to said page right away on your own.

Can you remind us how to activate this "on-the-fly" with lilo (so
that I don't have to edit /etc/lilo.conf?

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Jefferson LA  USA

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Re: Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[Florian Kulzer]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 08:02:21 -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:57:48PM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 12:38:46AM +0900, Osamu Aoki was heard to say:
> ...
> 
> > > You need to tell in NEWS file that local scripts need to add "~n" before
> > > serch string to make it act as before under the new version.
> > 
> >   My question was: are there any such local scripts?  It seems possible
> > to me that someone might have written a script that uses aptitude this
> > way, but I had trouble coming up with an actual reason I'd do that,
> > especially since the output from "aptitude search" is notably bad for
> > scripting.
> > 
> 
> I've hesitated to respond for just this issue. I can't come up with
> any good reason to script an aptitude search. Mainly because, what the
> heck would you do with the output in a script? If you parse the output
> to find a particular package, that sort of implies that you already
> know what the package is and could just (install|hold|purge|whatever)
> it anyway without bothering to search for it. 
> 
> I'm sure now I'll be called out and several will pipe up with myriad
> uses for aptitude search in a script... but that would be good as it's
> what you want.
> 
> IOW, IMO, I think you're pretty safe to move ahead. Probably a direct
> email to Florian Kuzler would suffice since he seems to be the master
> of arbitrarily complex aptitude search expressions

You are exaggerating greatly, but anyway, here are my two cents:

I don't use aptitude search commands in any scripts. If somebody does,
then I would expect those to be specialized queries for which people
will take care to specify all the operators (e.g. the "~i!~M" example
posted earlier). Everyone uses "apt-cache search -n" for simple searches
in package names anyway, because it is faster, right? A reason to prefer
aptitude in that case might be that someone wants to make their script
simpler by letting aptitude's output formatting options do some work
that would otherwise have to be done by piping the output to sed or awk.
My feeling is that such a person would be likely to specify "~n"
explicitly anyway in their scripts, even though it is currently not
necessary.

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Re: taming resolv.conf

[Michael Shuler]

Digby Tarvin wrote:
> My /etc/resolv.conf file looked ok, except the DHCP server in my
> router provides nameserver IP only, no search list.
> 
> Any suggestions? I do like the idea of having any static nameserver
> information in the /etc/network/interfaces file with the rest of
> the network config, so resolvconf would be good if it worked as
> expected

I do this all in /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf - custom prepended domains for
search, as well as superseding some rather useless caching resolvers in
favor of another pair.  Works regardless of whether I use the interfaces
file, resolvconf, NetworkManager, etc., which all use dhclient in the
end.  Hope that helps!

-- 
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Michael Shuler


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Re: Source code editor

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On 04/16/08 11:09, Tero Mäntyvaara wrote:
[snip]
> 
> I installed motor in my AMD64 Etch system and after I execute it I get
> "Segmentation fault"... :-/

Did you file a bug?

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Re: Problem compiling simple C program

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1



Thanks all for bottom-posting!  But why isn't anyone snipping out
the same, repeating, unnecessary text?

On 04/16/08 10:10, H.S. wrote:
> John Salmon wrote:
>> Sven Joachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
>> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>>
>>> On 2008-04-15 20:39 +0200, John Salmon wrote:
>>>
 I'm running Debian Etch on a PC. When I try to compile the following
 (called test.c);

 #include 
 #include 

 int main()
 {
 double
 val = 1.55;

 printf("sine: %g\n", sin(val));

 return 0;
 }

 using the command line

 gcc -Wall -o test test.c

 I get

 /tmp/cciDV02m.o: In function `main':
 test.c:(.text+0x21): undefined reference to `sin'
 collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
>>> You need to link to the math library by specifying -lm _at the end_ of
>>> the gcc command line, otherwise the linker does not know about the sin()
>>> function.
>>>
 When I compile the equivalent C++ program using the apropriate C++
 parameters, everything goes great. Have I neglected to load a Debian
 package? Any help will be appreciated.
>>> That is to be expected, because C++ programs are automatically linked
>>> against the math library.  In C you have to tell the linker to use it
>>> with -lm.
>>>
>>> Sven
>>>
>>>
>>
>> That solved the linking problem. Now, after a successful compilation,
>> when I run 'test' I gen no output.   ???
>>
> 
> In the directory where you source and output executable is, try "./test".
> 
> You are not getting any output probably because you are inadvertently
> using the system "test" command.
> 
> To avoid such introduction traps, I usually make such example programs
> with names quite different from any commands that the system may have,
> for example by using my initials or by using a number in the source
> file. Using "mytest" or "example1" would have been a better choice in
> your case.

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Re: Lenny d-i and KDE

[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 1:37 PM, Michael C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  Sorry Andrew --- I didn't make myself nearly clear enough --- is the
>  Lenny d-i *net* install CD able to provide for a KDE-only installation?

The net install includes only the base system. It does not come with
KDE, it'll have to be installed later via the internet or other more
difficult means.


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Re: Lenny d-i and KDE

[Michael C]

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 01:51:48PM +0100, Michael C wrote:
  

Hi,

Does the current build of the Lenny d-i allow users to specify a
KDE-only desktop installation?



the lenny beta1 release includes a kde version of cd 1:

http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/lenny_di_beta1/i386/iso-cd/debian-testing-i386-kde-CD-1.iso

as does the weekly snapshot:

http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/i386/iso-cd/debian-testing-i386-kde-CD-1.iso

please see:

http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/

for more details

A
  


D'oh!

Sorry Andrew --- I didn't make myself nearly clear enough --- is the
Lenny d-i *net* install CD able to provide for a KDE-only installation?








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Re: taming resolv.conf

[Andrei Popescu]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 05:08:08PM +, Digby Tarvin wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 08:00:12PM +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 04:16:13PM +, Digby Tarvin wrote:
> >
> > > Any suggestions? I do like the idea of having any static nameserver
> > > information in the /etc/network/interfaces file with the rest of
> > > the network config, so resolvconf would be good if it worked as
> > > expected
> >
> > If I understood correctly what you want you need this is
> > /etc/network/interfaces:
> >
> >   dns-nameserver 123.234.123.234
> >
> > More info in /usr/share/doc/resolvconf/README.gz section 3.4
> >
> > Regards,
> > Andrei
> 
> Not quite. I only want the static information in the interfaces file.
> I still want the nameserver address that is supplied by DHCP to be
> used.
> 
> I do know how to hardwire a nameserver and IP address if I am not
> using DHCP, but resolvconf is not really so necessary in that
> situation.

I don't think the static dns server in the interfaces file will override 
the DHCP provided one, but I can't tell for sure. You will have to read 
the resolvconf docs for this.

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: taming resolv.conf

[Digby Tarvin]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 08:00:12PM +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 04:16:13PM +, Digby Tarvin wrote:
>
> > Any suggestions? I do like the idea of having any static nameserver
> > information in the /etc/network/interfaces file with the rest of
> > the network config, so resolvconf would be good if it worked as
> > expected
>
> If I understood correctly what you want you need this is
> /etc/network/interfaces:
>
>   dns-nameserver 123.234.123.234
>
> More info in /usr/share/doc/resolvconf/README.gz section 3.4
>
> Regards,
> Andrei

Not quite. I only want the static information in the interfaces file.
I still want the nameserver address that is supplied by DHCP to be
used.

I do know how to hardwire a nameserver and IP address if I am not
using DHCP, but resolvconf is not really so necessary in that
situation.

Regards,
DigbyT


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Re: taming resolv.conf

[Andrei Popescu]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 04:16:13PM +, Digby Tarvin wrote:
 
> Any suggestions? I do like the idea of having any static nameserver
> information in the /etc/network/interfaces file with the rest of
> the network config, so resolvconf would be good if it worked as
> expected
 
If I understood correctly what you want you need this is 
/etc/network/interfaces:

dns-nameserver 123.234.123.234

More info in /usr/share/doc/resolvconf/README.gz section 3.4

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: checking life of battery?

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 12:23:11PM -0400, Kamaraju S Kusumanchi wrote:
> 1) Is there any way to check the life of a battery on a Dell Inspiron 6400
> E1505? I am using Debian Etch.

what do you mena by life of the battery? If you mean it's operational
life, like before it wears out and doesn't hold a charge any more, I
don't know... 

but if you mean how much juice you have left at any moment, look at
the acpi command, it reports battery status and time left until
discharged or charged. 

Also, you can look at /sys/...some path I can't remember/BAT0... sorry
you'll have to find it, as I'm not at my laptop ATM.

Anyway, you can get the current discharge rate mA, current capacity in
mAh and max capacity in mAh and do the math to figure out where you
are and how far you have to go.

> 
> 2) How to find out the number of cells in the battery? The manual says it
> can be "6-cell smart lithium ion" or "9-cell lithium ion". But I am not
> sure which one I have.
> 
> $pwd
> /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0
> 
> $cat alarm
> alarm:   480 mAh
> 
> $cat info
> present: yes
> design capacity: 4800 mAh
> last full capacity:  64548 mAh

hmmm... something doesn't look right here
how can the full capactiy be larger than design capacity?


> battery technology:  rechargeable
> design voltage:  11100 mV
> design capacity warning: 480 mAh
> design capacity low: 145 mAh
> capacity granularity 1:  48 mAh
> capacity granularity 2:  48 mAh
> model number: DELLRD8576
> serial number:   688
> battery type:LION
> OEM info:Sony
> 
> $cat state
> present: yes
> capacity state:  ok
> charging state:  charged

according to these two:

> present rate:1 mA
> remaining capacity:  64548 mAh

you have 64548 hours of life left, but obviously that remaining
capacity is wrong... and the 1mA rate is at this moment and can vary
radically... 

> present voltage: 11947 mV

hth a bit

A


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taming resolv.conf

[Digby Tarvin]

Another little niggle from my recent install which doesn't seem to be
as straight forward as it should be... I hope someone can point me
at what I am doing wrong...

Immediately following my Etch 40r3 netinstall my /etc/network/interfaces
had a pretty standard looking
precision:/etc/network# grep -v '#' /etc/network/interfaces.orig
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback
allow-hotplug eth0
iface eth0 inet dhcp
My /etc/resolv.conf file looked ok, except the DHCP server in my
router provides nameserver IP only, no search list.

After a bit of searching it looked like the resolvconf package would
be an simple solution, so I installed it and updated my loopback
device entry to insert the search list as follows:
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback
  dns-search cthulhu.dircon.co.uk

That all worked fine, except that ever since resolvconf was
installed the nameserver address returned by the DHCP server
seems to be being installed. My new /etc/resolv.conf is
coming up as:
# Dynamic resolv.conf(5) file for glibc resolver(3) generated by resolvconf(8)
# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE BY HAND -- YOUR CHANGES WILL BE OVERWRITTEN
nameserver 127.0.0.1
search cthulhu.dircon.co.uk


If I revert to the original interfaces file, /etc/resolv.conf is
# Dynamic resolv.conf(5) file for glibc resolver(3) generated by resolvconf(8)
# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE BY HAND -- YOUR CHANGES WILL BE OVERWRITTEN
nameserver 127.0.0.1

And if I then apt-get remove resolvconf and reboot then the original
resolv.conf with correct dhcp supplied nameserver (but no search) returns:
# generated by NetworkManager, do not edit!



nameserver 203.27.41.5


Any suggestions? I do like the idea of having any static nameserver
information in the /etc/network/interfaces file with the rest of
the network config, so resolvconf would be good if it worked as
expected

Regards,
DigbyT


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Support for VESA Textmode 132x60

[Joey Schulze]

Hi,

I'm seeking information on modern graphic cards (PCI, PCIe) that
support VESA BIOS mode 0x010C, a special text mode that works with
132x60 characters.  Linux supports this mode when the graphics board
provides this particular mode.

Unfortunately, not many of current video cards support this VESA mode,
thus the nice text mode is not available.

Therefore, I have started a Wiki page to collect information on the
availability of this particular text mode in graphic cards:

  

I hope this list is helpful for others who are interested in such a
text mode.

If you work with a modern graphics card and have definitive knowledge
whether or not this mode is supported, it would be nice to drop me a
line or add that information to said page right away on your own.

Regards,

Joey

-- 
There are lies, statistics and benchmarks.

Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.


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Re: Lenny d-i and KDE

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 01:51:48PM +0100, Michael C wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Does the current build of the Lenny d-i allow users to specify a
> KDE-only desktop installation?

the lenny beta1 release includes a kde version of cd 1:

http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/lenny_di_beta1/i386/iso-cd/debian-testing-i386-kde-CD-1.iso

as does the weekly snapshot:

http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/i386/iso-cd/debian-testing-i386-kde-CD-1.iso

please see:

http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/

for more details

A


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checking life of battery?

[Kamaraju S Kusumanchi]

1) Is there any way to check the life of a battery on a Dell Inspiron 6400
E1505? I am using Debian Etch.

2) How to find out the number of cells in the battery? The manual says it
can be "6-cell smart lithium ion" or "9-cell lithium ion". But I am not
sure which one I have.

$pwd
/proc/acpi/battery/BAT0

$cat alarm
alarm:   480 mAh

$cat info
present: yes
design capacity: 4800 mAh
last full capacity:  64548 mAh
battery technology:  rechargeable
design voltage:  11100 mV
design capacity warning: 480 mAh
design capacity low: 145 mAh
capacity granularity 1:  48 mAh
capacity granularity 2:  48 mAh
model number: DELLRD8576
serial number:   688
battery type:LION
OEM info:Sony

$cat state
present: yes
capacity state:  ok
charging state:  charged
present rate:1 mA
remaining capacity:  64548 mAh
present voltage: 11947 mV

thanks
raju
-- 
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/
http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/


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Re: Source code editor

[Tero Mäntyvaara]

Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:

On 15/04/2008, Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

It's a darned shame that there are no IDEs similar to the one in
 Turbo Pascal.


How about motor? (apt-cache show motor).

I still prefer myself to use Emacs. With stuff like ede to automatise
the building of Makefiles, it's a full-fledged IDE, but that initial
learning curve still scares people, no matter how much you tell them
that it will be worth it in their end. If learning to properly
touch-type is part of it, so be it.

Btw, I personally think that editting in Emacs is only comfortable if
you use a US keyboard layout, since otherwise a lot of the commands
move to uncomfortable places.

- Jordi G. H.




I installed motor in my AMD64 Etch system and after I execute it I get 
"Segmentation fault"... :-/



Tero Mäntyvaara


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Lenny d-i and KDE

[Michael C]

Hi,

Does the current build of the Lenny d-i allow users to specify a
KDE-only desktop installation?

Thanks in advance,

Michael




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Re: Reg Blind

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:30:30PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:48:36AM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
>  
> > and one more thought. Could it be possible to write a video driver
> > that is essentially a dummy? A blind user does need X to actually draw
> > on the screen (unless they're working with a sighted assistant). It
> > only needs X to think it's drawing on the screen...
> 
> What if their software needs to draw to the screen so that other
> software can screen scrape?  Or does the dummy driver contain video
> memory (or whatever) that the screen-scraper can read.  New concept for
> me.

good point. I did google a bit on the dummy driver but found no real
info. It seems to be used primarily for running X benchmarks or
somethings. But I didn't look hard


A


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Re: Firewall froth..

[Anthony Campbell]

On 17 Apr 2008, Jon wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 10:00:37AM +0100, Anthony Campbell wrote:
> 
> > You can prevent this stuff appearing by inserting "klogd -c5" to 
> > /etc/init.d/klogd. See /www.shorewall.net/FAQ.htm.
> 
> It's better to modify /etc/default/klogd.
> 
> 

Looking at that, I see:

# Use KLOGD="-k /boot/System.map-$(uname -r)" to specify System.map
# -c 4 to alter the kernel console log level (deprecated)
#   use sysctl instead
#

So I looked at /etc/sysctl.conf and found:


 # Uncomment the following to stop low-level messages on console
 kernel.printk = 4 4 1 7


I suppose this will do what is wanted. Mine is uncommented, which is
presmuably why I am not getting these unwanted effects.

Anthony


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Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux
http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, 
on-line books and sceptical articles)


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Re: Source code editor

[Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso]

On 15/04/2008, Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's a darned shame that there are no IDEs similar to the one in
>  Turbo Pascal.

How about motor? (apt-cache show motor).

I still prefer myself to use Emacs. With stuff like ede to automatise
the building of Makefiles, it's a full-fledged IDE, but that initial
learning curve still scares people, no matter how much you tell them
that it will be worth it in their end. If learning to properly
touch-type is part of it, so be it.

Btw, I personally think that editting in Emacs is only comfortable if
you use a US keyboard layout, since otherwise a lot of the commands
move to uncomfortable places.

- Jordi G. H.


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Re: Problem compiling simple C program

[H.S.]

John Salmon wrote:

Sven Joachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:


On 2008-04-15 20:39 +0200, John Salmon wrote:

I'm running Debian Etch on a PC. When I try to compile the following 
(called test.c);


#include 
#include 

int main()
{
double
val = 1.55;

printf("sine: %g\n", sin(val));

return 0;
}

using the command line

gcc -Wall -o test test.c

I get

/tmp/cciDV02m.o: In function `main':
test.c:(.text+0x21): undefined reference to `sin'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

You need to link to the math library by specifying -lm _at the end_ of
the gcc command line, otherwise the linker does not know about the sin()
function.

When I compile the equivalent C++ program using the apropriate C++ 
parameters, everything goes great. Have I neglected to load a Debian 
package? Any help will be appreciated.

That is to be expected, because C++ programs are automatically linked
against the math library.  In C you have to tell the linker to use it
with -lm.

Sven




That solved the linking problem. Now, after a successful compilation, when 
I run 'test' I gen no output.   ???




In the directory where you source and output executable is, try "./test".

You are not getting any output probably because you are inadvertently 
using the system "test" command.


To avoid such introduction traps, I usually make such example programs 
with names quite different from any commands that the system may have, 
for example by using my initials or by using a number in the source 
file. Using "mytest" or "example1" would have been a better choice in 
your case.


->HS


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Re: migrating to 64 bit...

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 10:55:57AM +0100, michael wrote:
>
> On 16 Apr 2008, at 02:37, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 12:32:26PM -0500, Sam Leon wrote:
>>> Could one easily upgrade to an amd64 system just by formating /,
>>> reinstalling with the proper arch, and then reinstalling all the apps
>>> that were installed and hopefully all the conf files in /home/user  
>>> will
>>> be compatible with the arch change of kde and other apps? (of course 
>>> I
>>> am only talking about if you have /home and a separate partition)
>>
>> Only formatting / will only work if you don't have a separte /usr or
>> /var...
>>
>> I run amd64 Etch and have an i386 chroot for iceweasel with flash.
>> Prior to that I had i386 Sarge on a different box.  The configs in / 
>> home
>> worked just fine.  I always migrate /etc by hand when I do a new
>> install.
>>
>
> I presume you have iceweasel in an i386 chroot since there's no working 
> flash for the 64 bit? This is something I am thinking of doing. I am 
> starting from amd64 Etch (no other Debian on the system). Do I really 
> need to install a full i386 Etch as implied by the Debian manual
> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch-tips.en.html#s-chroot
> or is there a quicker/shorter way (that wastes less disk space)?

when I migrated to amd64, I did nothing special for flash, and it
seems to just work... (Now I'm thinking I need to go check). In
theory, in sid, you use nsplugin-wrapper to allow 32bit flash to run
on 64bit systems.


A


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Re: Firewall froth..

[Jon]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 10:00:37AM +0100, Anthony Campbell wrote:

> You can prevent this stuff appearing by inserting "klogd -c5" to 
> /etc/init.d/klogd. See /www.shorewall.net/FAQ.htm.

It's better to modify /etc/default/klogd.


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Re: Problem compiling simple C program

[Kamaraju S Kusumanchi]

John Salmon wrote:

> That solved the linking problem. Now, after a successful compilation, when
> I run 'test' I gen no output.   ???
> 

It works for me.

$cat using_sin.c
#include 
#include 

int main()
{
double val = 1.55;
printf("sine: %g\n", sin(val));
return 0;
}

$gcc using_sin.c -lm -o using_sin

$./using_sin
sine: 0.999784

I am using Debian Etch + some packages from Lenny, gcc 4.2.3-2

hth
raju
-- 
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/
http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/


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Re: Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:57:48PM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 12:38:46AM +0900, Osamu Aoki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was 
> heard to say:
...

> > You need to tell in NEWS file that local scripts need to add "~n" before
> > serch string to make it act as before under the new version.
> 
>   My question was: are there any such local scripts?  It seems possible
> to me that someone might have written a script that uses aptitude this
> way, but I had trouble coming up with an actual reason I'd do that,
> especially since the output from "aptitude search" is notably bad for
> scripting.
> 

I've hesitated to respond for just this issue. I can't come up with
any good reason to script an aptitude search. Mainly because, what the
heck would you do with the output in a script? If you parse the output
to find a particular package, that sort of implies that you already
know what the package is and could just (install|hold|purge|whatever)
it anyway without bothering to search for it. 

I'm sure now I'll be called out and several will pipe up with myriad
uses for aptitude search in a script... but that would be good as it's
what you want.

IOW, IMO, I think you're pretty safe to move ahead. Probably a direct
email to Florian Kuzler would suffice since he seems to be the master
of arbitrarily complex aptitude search expressions

A


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Re: Problem compiling simple C program

[Joost Witteveen]

On 16/04/2008, John Salmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sven Joachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>
>
>  > On 2008-04-15 20:39 +0200, John Salmon wrote:
>  >
>  >> I'm running Debian Etch on a PC. When I try to compile the following
>  >> (called test.c);
>  >>
>  >> #include 
>  >> #include 
>  >>
>  >> int main()
>  >> {
>  >> double
>  >> val = 1.55;
>  >>
>  >> printf("sine: %g\n", sin(val));
>  >>
>  >> return 0;
>  >> }
>  >>
>  >> using the command line
>  >>
>  >> gcc -Wall -o test test.c
>  >>
>  >> I get
>  >>
>  >> /tmp/cciDV02m.o: In function `main':
>  >> test.c:(.text+0x21): undefined reference to `sin'
>  >> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
>  >
>  > You need to link to the math library by specifying -lm _at the end_ of
>  > the gcc command line, otherwise the linker does not know about the sin()
>  > function.
>  >
>  >> When I compile the equivalent C++ program using the apropriate C++
>  >> parameters, everything goes great. Have I neglected to load a Debian
>  >> package? Any help will be appreciated.
>  >
>  > That is to be expected, because C++ programs are automatically linked
>  > against the math library.  In C you have to tell the linker to use it
>  > with -lm.
>  >
>  > Sven
>  >
>  >
>
>
> That solved the linking problem. Now, after a successful compilation, when
>  I run 'test' I gen no output.   ???


"test" is a bash-builtin, and is a executable in /usr/bin/test, so
that is what you were running.
You can run your "test" command by typing
./test
or rename it to something else.


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Re: Problem compiling simple C program

[John Salmon]

Sven Joachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> On 2008-04-15 20:39 +0200, John Salmon wrote:
> 
>> I'm running Debian Etch on a PC. When I try to compile the following 
>> (called test.c);
>>
>> #include 
>> #include 
>>
>> int main()
>> {
>> double
>> val = 1.55;
>>
>> printf("sine: %g\n", sin(val));
>>
>> return 0;
>> }
>>
>> using the command line
>>
>> gcc -Wall -o test test.c
>>
>> I get
>>
>> /tmp/cciDV02m.o: In function `main':
>> test.c:(.text+0x21): undefined reference to `sin'
>> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> 
> You need to link to the math library by specifying -lm _at the end_ of
> the gcc command line, otherwise the linker does not know about the sin()
> function.
> 
>> When I compile the equivalent C++ program using the apropriate C++ 
>> parameters, everything goes great. Have I neglected to load a Debian 
>> package? Any help will be appreciated.
> 
> That is to be expected, because C++ programs are automatically linked
> against the math library.  In C you have to tell the linker to use it
> with -lm.
> 
> Sven
> 
> 

That solved the linking problem. Now, after a successful compilation, when 
I run 'test' I gen no output.   ???

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Re: Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[Daniel Burrows]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 10:45:22AM +0200, NN_il_Confusionario <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> was heard to say:
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:17:55PM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> >   Did aptitude work on this system in past Debian releases?
> 
> I use aptitude rarely and only for command-line tests (downloads,
> simulate installs,  compartation with the dependencies-resolving results
> with apt-get. _Never_ for installing).
> 
> But I can say that with the transitions woody ---> sarge ---> etch it has 
> become slower and slower (quite a lot solwer on my old hardware).

  I see.

> >  The only real
> > memory-hogging change in the program I can think of is the switch to
> > Unicode a few years ago;
> 
> Is it possible to locally recompile aptitude without such support, for
> testing pourposes?

  You could fetch a version from oldstable (0.2.whatever) and compile it.
It might take a little hacking since the C++ toolchain and apt have changed
since then.  You can't compile a current version without this support,
because the change touched more or less the whole program as well as
what later became cwidget; it's not just a matter of changing a few
lines to go back.

  If you only run from the command-line it's almost certainly not the
Unicode stuff that's biting you: aptitude hardly carries any strings at
all around in memory in that mode.

> > like the increase in the number of packages in the archive and changes in
> > the toolchain and standard library
> 
> I suspect that these three reasons are mostly responsable for sloweness
> (of aptitude and of other packages).

  Personally, I bet that much of the increase in memory usage can be
traced to the increase in the number of packages.  Can you maybe try
cutting down on the number of packages (e.g., by pointing sources.list
at oldstable temporarily) and see if that speeds things up?

> Is it possible to compile (for testing pourposes) the current aptitude
> with dietlibc or uclibc ? With older compilers ? (I recall that some
> time ago there were somewere in the net a recompilation of a not big but
> good and self-supporting part of woody with dietlibc, with only few
> patches to the source packages)

  I have no idea.

  Daniel


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Re: bits/news from the users of Debian?

[Chris Davies]

Peter Hugosson-Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here at work we have one single Linux installation in a sea of Windoze: 
> a PC running Debian "woody" [...]

> At home my latest installation is also "woody" [...]

Woody's pretty old now. But I guess you know that.

You might want to step forwards through Sarge to Etch. FWIW I run Lenny
(testing) on my production boxes and so far it has been rock solid.


> If I had any comments or suggestions on how to improve Linux/Debian, it 
> would be the sound. Despite running Debian exclusively at home for over 
> 10 years, I never managed to get the sound working properly [...]

Jumping forward to a more current version of debian might well help with
the sound problems, especially as you say that the Knoppix Live CD gets
it right.

Chris


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Re: Source code editor

[Adrian Levi]

On 16/04/2008, Dave Thayer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  Debian has a package for damn near anything!
>
>  dt

Yup, your right...

#apt-cache show kitchensync

:-)

Adrian
-- 
24x7x365 != 24x7x52 Stupid or bad maths?
 hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to
ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my
apartment it is.


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Re: migrating to 64 bit...

[michael]

On 16 Apr 2008, at 02:37, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 12:32:26PM -0500, Sam Leon wrote:

Could one easily upgrade to an amd64 system just by formating /,
reinstalling with the proper arch, and then reinstalling all the apps
that were installed and hopefully all the conf files in /home/user  
will
be compatible with the arch change of kde and other apps? (of  
course I

am only talking about if you have /home and a separate partition)


Only formatting / will only work if you don't have a separte /usr or
/var...

I run amd64 Etch and have an i386 chroot for iceweasel with flash.
Prior to that I had i386 Sarge on a different box.  The configs in / 
home

worked just fine.  I always migrate /etc by hand when I do a new
install.



I presume you have iceweasel in an i386 chroot since there's no  
working flash for the 64 bit? This is something I am thinking of  
doing. I am starting from amd64 Etch (no other Debian on the system).  
Do I really need to install a full i386 Etch as implied by the Debian  
manual

http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch-tips.en.html#s-chroot
or is there a quicker/shorter way (that wastes less disk space)?

Thanks, Michael


Doug.


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Re: JFS / Unsupported file systems

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/15/08 23:16, Hose wrote:
> 
[snip]
> sometimes be a hassle).  I have a severe dislike for ext, though I

Why?

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

We want... a Shrubbery!!
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Nifc0FHvyzfx/R2O4bt4mPo=
=G/qg
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Re: Firewall froth..

[Anthony Campbell]

On 15 Apr 2008, Digby Tarvin wrote:
> 
[snip] 
> where the list line was to filter out the most frequent messages, but
> I am not really sure what, if any, rejected connections/packets I
> should be looking out for, and what should just be ignored...
> 
> Perhaps I should redirect the firewall logs to a separate file? Or
> just stick my head in the sand and log nothing - which is presumably
> the situation with my dsl router..
> 
> Here is an example of the last dozen or so messages in the log:
>  DF PROTO=TCP SPT=1739 DPT=2933 WINDOW=65535 RES=0x00 SYN URGP=0 
> Shorewall:net2all:DROP:IN=eth0 OUT= 
> MAC=00:02:a5:f7:47:a8:00:0b:bf:51:60:01:08:00 SRC=125.45.93.1 
> DST=81.105.30.126 LEN=40 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=106 ID=44567 DF PROTO=TCP 
> SPT=12200 DPT=1080 WINDOW=8192 RES=0x00 SYN URGP=0 
> Shorewall:net2all:DROP:IN=eth0 OUT= 
> MAC=00:02:a5:f7:47:a8:00:0b:bf:51:60:01:08:00 SRC=71.156.118.7 
> DST=81.105.30.126 LEN=48 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x20 TTL=116 ID=17119 DF PROTO=TCP 
> SPT=3968 DPT=3306 WINDOW=16384 RES=0x00 SYN URGP=0 
> Shorewall:net2all:DROP:IN=eth0 OUT= 
> MAC=00:02:a5:f7:47:a8:00:0b:bf:51:60:01:08:00 SRC=71.156.118.7 
> DST=81.105.30.126 LEN=48 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x20 TTL=116 ID=18256 DF PROTO=TCP 
> SPT=3968 DPT=3306 WINDOW=16384 RES=0x00 SYN URGP=0 
> Shorewall:net2all:DROP:IN=eth0 OUT= 
> MAC=00:02:a5:f7:47:a8:00:0b:bf:51:60:01:08:00 SRC=88.109.202.188 
> DST=81.105.30.126 LEN=58 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=119 ID=4407 PROTO=UDP 
> SPT=8184 DPT=2933 LEN=38 
> Shorewall:net2all:DROP:IN=eth0 OUT= 
> MAC=00:02:a5:f7:47:a8:00:0b:bf:51:60:01:08:00 SRC=88.109.202.188 
> DST=81.105.30.126 LEN=58 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=119 ID=4409 PROTO=UDP 
> SPT=8184 DPT=2933 LEN=38 
> Shorewall:net2all:DROP:IN=eth0 OUT= 
> MAC=00:02:a5:f7:47:a8:00:0b:bf:51:60:01:08:00 SRC=88.109.202.188 
> DST=81.105.30.126 LEN=58 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=119 ID=4410 PROTO=UDP 
> SPT=8184 DPT=2933 LEN=38 
> 
> Is this normal? Anyone know where all this rejected traffic represents?
> 

You can prevent this stuff appearing by inserting "klogd -c5" to
/etc/init.d/klogd. See /www.shorewall.net/FAQ.htm.

"FAQ 16) Shorewall is writing log messages all over my console making it 
unusable!

Answer:

Just to be clear, it is not Shorewall that is writing all over your
console. Shorewall issues a single log message during each start,
restart, stop, etc. It is rather the klogd daemon that is writing
messages to your console. Shorewall itself has no control over where a
particular class of messages are written. See the Shorewall logging
documentation.

*

  Find where klogd is being started (it will be from one of the
  files in /etc/init.d -- sysklogd, klogd, ...). Modify that file or
  the appropriate configuration file so that klogd is started with
  “-c  ” where  is a log level of 5 or less; and/or
*

  See the “dmesg” man page (“man dmesg”). You must add a suitable
  “dmesg” command to your startup scripts or place it in
  /etc/shorewall/start."

Anthony

-- 
Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux
http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, 
on-line books and sceptical articles)


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Re: Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[NN_il_Confusionario]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:17:55PM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
>   Did aptitude work on this system in past Debian releases?

I use aptitude rarely and only for command-line tests (downloads,
simulate installs,  compartation with the dependencies-resolving results
with apt-get. _Never_ for installing).

But I can say that with the transitions woody ---> sarge ---> etch it has 
become slower and slower (quite a lot solwer on my old hardware).

>  The only real
> memory-hogging change in the program I can think of is the switch to
> Unicode a few years ago;

Is it possible to locally recompile aptitude without such support, for
testing pourposes?

> like the increase in the number of packages in the archive and changes in
> the toolchain and standard library

I suspect that these three reasons are mostly responsable for sloweness
(of aptitude and of other packages).

Is it possible to compile (for testing pourposes) the current aptitude
with dietlibc or uclibc ? With older compilers ? (I recall that some
time ago there were somewere in the net a recompilation of a not big but
good and self-supporting part of woody with dietlibc, with only few
patches to the source packages)

Are there somewere merory and speed comparation tests for the various
releases of GNU glibc and gcc ?

-- 
Chi usa software non libero avvelena anche te. Digli di smettere.
Informatica=arsenico: minime dosi in rari casi patologici, altrimenti letale.
Informatica=bomba: intelligente solo per gli stupidi che ci credono.


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Re: Source code editor

[Dave Thayer]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 03:53:38PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> It's a darned shame that there are no IDEs similar to the one in
> Turbo Pascal.
$ apt-cache show xwpe
[...]
Description: Programming environment and editor for console and X11
 Xwpe is an integrated programming and debugging environment similar to
 Borland's Turbo C and Pascal family. It has many features including
 the ability to start many compilers, linkers and debuggers from a
 menu-based interface or using keystrokes.
[...]

Debian has a package for damn near anything!

dt

-- 
Dave Thayer   | Whenever you read a good book, it's like the 
Denver, Colorado USA  | author is right there, in the room talking to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | you, which is why I don't like to read 
  | good books. - Jack Handey "Deep Thoughts"


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Re: D-Link DWL-122 Wireless Adapter

[Sven Joachim]

On 2008-04-16 03:35 +0200, francisco wrote:

> Hello
>
> Does somebody knows how to install the DWL-122 Wireless Adapter?

Which revision is that?  It should be printed on the packing, if you
can't find it, run lsusb as root and post the results.

> I'm using testing-gnome,

Kernel version would also be interesting.

> and i did:
>
> 1. install linux-wlan-ng
> 2. write  wlancfg-"essid"
> 3. load up modules # modprobe prism2_usb prism2_doreset=1
> 4. # wlanctl-ng wlan0 lnxreq_ifstate ifstate=enable
> 5. # wlanctl-ng wlan0 lnxreq_autojoin ssid=
> authtype=opensystem
> 6. configuration.
>
> But, the adapter doesn't work!

For newer revisions of the adapter (rev. C1), make sure to install the
firmware-ralink package from non-free.

Sven


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Re: Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[Andrei Popescu]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:20:21PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
 
> I don't suppose while you're re-writing aptiutde you can make it not hit
> swap when I start the curses interface on my P-II with 64 MB ram (or
> will Lenny and whatever comes next not run on 64MB anyway)?

Do you have /tmp on tmpfs on that box too? (I know you have it on at 
least one other box). Because if aptitude is using some temporary files 
this would explain the swapping.

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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