Re: Jessie sufficiently stable for general use?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Fri, 06 Mar 2015, Miles Fidelman wrote:

> Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 06 Mar 2015 at 09:27:23 -0800, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 06 Mar 2015, Ken Heard wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks everybody for the collected wisdom.  So for me now Jessie
> >>> RC1 is it.
> >> FYI: Do daily updates using dist-upgrade, instead of upgrade (or
> >> the equivalent with aptitude, if you use that). Things change
> >> quickly and sometimes majorly on the path to Stable.  You'll want
> >> to get ALL those changes -- minor and major. "Upgrade" won't do
> >> that. This is recommended by Debian.  Once Jessie is Stable,
> >> revert to "upgrade" for the most part.
> > I agree with everything but the final sentence. Stable is unlikely
> > to pull in any new packages but if it does you will likely need
> > them. In other words, 'dist-upgrade' should be the norm for stable.
> >
> 
> Somehow, anything that needs daily updates, or upgrades, does not
> meet any definition of "stable" that I'm familiar with.

As far a Debian is concerned, you have the incorrect definition of
"stable."  With Debin "Stable" means "unchanging," without serious
bugs, not less prone to crash.  It's confusing, I agree.  I wish a
different term had been chosen.

Security and bug fixes are a part of every OS and app.  I "update" my
system database daily, that is I check daily for any "fixes."  Some do
so weekly.  In any case, this may require "upgrading," i.e. something
new is installed replacing something old that needs the fix, about
every week or two.  Sometimes, it can be one tiny library; other times
it can be a dozen system files, including the kernel.

B


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Re: Jessie sufficiently stable for general use?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Fri, 06 Mar 2015, Brian wrote:

> On Fri 06 Mar 2015 at 09:27:23 -0800, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 06 Mar 2015, Ken Heard wrote:
> > 
> > > Thanks everybody for the collected wisdom.  So for me now Jessie
> > > RC1 is it.
> > 
> > FYI: Do daily updates using dist-upgrade, instead of upgrade (or the
> > equivalent with aptitude, if you use that). Things change quickly
> > and sometimes majorly on the path to Stable.  You'll want to get
> > ALL those changes -- minor and major. "Upgrade" won't do that. This
> > is recommended by Debian.  Once Jessie is Stable, revert to
> > "upgrade" for the most part.
> 
> I agree with everything but the final sentence. Stable is unlikely to
> pull in any new packages but if it does you will likely need them.
> In other words, 'dist-upgrade' should be the norm for stable.

It depends on whether you want an "unchanging" system -- what "Stable"
means in Debian-speak -- as opposed to less prone to crash.  Upgrade
only brings in bug and security fixes for what's installed.  Only
necessary changes. Dist-upgrade brings in that plus more extensive
changes.

In my experience with Wheezy after it went Stable, I've only needed
dist-upgrade, maybe, 3 or 4 times, and that's solely due to a couple
apps from backports.  If you only use upgrade and something needs a
major "fix" that only dist-upgrade can handle, you're notified during
the update part.


B


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Re: Looking for document and file organisation tools

[Jude DaShiell]

On Fri, 6 Mar 2015, Victor wrote:

> On 03/03/2015 18:13, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > What free software is there in the way of organizing lots of documents?
> >
> > To be more precise, the ones I *need* to organize are the files on hard
> > drives, though if I could include documents I have elsewhere (bookshelves
> > and photocopy files) I wouldn't mind.  They are text documents in a
> > variety of file formats and languages, source code for current and
> > obsolete systems, jpeg images, film clips, drawings, SVG files, files,
> > object code, shared libraries, fragments of drafts of books,  ragged
> > software documentation, works in progress ...
> >
> > And I'm not looking for one single solution that will do everything I'd
> > like.  Indeed, I suspect that's impossible without building an entirely
> > new OS.  Which I'm not likely to find off the shelf, nor am I likely to
> > be able to do it myself in the few decades I may have left in my life.
> > And even if it were feasible, there's probably a lot of research to be
> > done before we even know what such a thing should actually do.
> >
> > Of course the files are already semi-organized in directories.  But I
> > haven't yet managed to find a suitable collection of directory names.
> > Hierarchical classification isn't ideal -- there are files that fit in
> > several categories, and there are a lot files that have to be in a
> > particular location because of the way they are used (executables in a
> > bin directory, for example) or the way they are updated or maintained.
> >
> > Of course the taxonomists would advise setting up a controlled vocabulary
> > of tags and attaching tags to the various files.  I'd end up with
> > triples store or some other database describing files.
> >
> > But how to identify the files being tagged?  A file-system pathname isn't
> > enough.  Files get moved, and sometimes entire directory trees full of
> > files get moved from one place to another for various pragmatic reasons.
> > And a hashcode isn't enough.  files get edited, upgraded, recompiled,
> > reformatted, converted from JIS code to UTF-8, and so forth.  Images get
> > cropped and colour-corrected.  And under these changes they should keep
> > their assigned classification tags.
> >
> > Now a number of file formats can accommodate metadata.  And some software
> > that manipulates files can preserve metadata and even allow user editing
> > of the metadata.  But more doesn't.
> >
> > Much of it could perhaps be done by auttomatic content analysis.  Other
> > material may require labour-intensive manual classification.
> >
> > No I don't expect to see any off-the-shelf solution for all of this.
> >
> > But does anyone have ideas as to how to accomplish even some of this?
> > Even poorly?
> >
> > Does anyone know of relevant practical tools?  Or have ideas towards
> > tools that *should* exist but currently don't?
> >
> > I'm ready to experiment.
> >
> > -- hendrik
> >
> >
> For tagging your files, have you seen tmsu (http://tmsu.org/)? The homepage
> says:
> 
>TMSU is a tool for tagging your files. It provides a simple
>command-line tool for applying tags and a virtual filesystem so that
>you can get a tag-based view of your files from within any other
>program.
> 
>TMSU does not alter your files in any way: they remain unchanged on
>disk, or on the network, wherever you put them. TMSU maintains its
>own database and you simply gain an additional view, which you can
>mount, based upon the tags you set up. The only commitment required
>is your time and there's absolutely no lock-in.
> 
> Never used it myself. I?m not sure how it handles moving/renames of files,
> which is one of your concerns.  Maybe there?s something planned in it for
> that. At least it makes the tagged filesystem available in any program, which

http://org-mode.org/ may also be helpful for mind-mapping purposes if 
nothing else.

> is quite convenient I think.
> 

jude 
Twitter: @JudeDaShiell


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Re: Recompiling debian kernel

[Stephen Powell]

On Thu, 05 Mar 2015 07:25:41 -0500 (EST), csanyi...@gmail.com wrote:
> ...
> I'm trying to recompile the installed kernel
> ...

   http://users.wowway.com/~zlinuxman/Kernel.htm

It's not a brief outline.  It will take a while to read.  But it is thorough;
and if you follow the procedure carefully, I believe you will get good results.

-- 
  .''`. Stephen Powell
 : :'  :
 `. `'`
   `-


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Re: alternative to avidemux?

[Anil Duggirala]

Im using avconv to do this, it is a part of libav-tools package, and its
probably faster if you are doing this on a regular basis, use the -ss
option along with the -t option. Im also pretty sure it can add a
subtitle channel, although I havent done it,


On Tue, 2015-03-03 at 23:39 +0100, Victor wrote:
> On 03/03/2015 18:05, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > subtitles:
> >
> > - gnome-subtitles (1.2-4 in Wheezy)
> > - aegisub (2.1.9-1 in Wheezy)
> > - subtitlecomposer (0.5.3-3 in Wheezy)
> These are for editing the subtitle files. I use aegisub, and it’s great. 
> But none of these software can burn the subtitles into the images.
> >
> > lossless cuts:
> >
> > - gopchop  (1.1.8-5 in Wheezy) - MPEG2 only
> > - possibly OpenShot, if you stay in the right format
> I didn’t know about gopchop. Sounds interesting. However nowadays my 
> main need is to cut mp4 videos (h264/aac) and occasionally some avi 
> (xvid/mp3).
> Last time I checked, OpenShot didn’t have a direct copy/remux function 
> (without reencoding). I still can’t find it in 1.4.3. Did I miss something?
> 
> 



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Re: Jessie sufficiently stable for general use?

[Bob Proulx]

Brian wrote:
> Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > FYI: Do daily updates using dist-upgrade, instead of upgrade (or the
> > equivalent with aptitude, if you use that). Things change quickly and
> > sometimes majorly on the path to Stable.  You'll want to get ALL those
> > changes -- minor and major. "Upgrade" won't do that. This is
> > recommended by Debian.  Once Jessie is Stable, revert to "upgrade" for
> > the most part.
> 
> I agree with everything but the final sentence. Stable is unlikely to
> pull in any new packages but if it does you will likely need them.
> In other words, 'dist-upgrade' should be the norm for stable.

It isn't one or the other.  You need both.  They do different things
and for different reasons.

A normal daily cycle for me on any sytem is usually this sequence.
Note that I am using both 'etckeeper' and have backups and thefore
have no fear of purging an /etc configuration that I might want to
refer to again later.  Therefore I always purge instead of remove to
keep the system clean.

  1. apt-get update
  2. apt-get upgrade
  3. apt-get dist-upgrade
  4. apt-get autoremove --purge
  5. apt-get clean
  6. reportbug --ui=text brokenpackage

On a Sid Unstable system there are a lot of transitions.  Running
dist-upgrade only mostly works but sometimes the transitions and other
noise confuse APT and it wants to take a different path than we want
it to take.  Such as to remove everything.  Running upgrade first
upgrades everything that can be upgraded without removing anything or
adding anything.  Then the subsequent dist-upgrade has a simpler
solution to find and will usually do the right thing.

Even during our current freeze in Sid there are always a lot of daily
thrash of package churn.  And this time is the quiet time.
Immediately after release when Sid unfreezes the floodgates will be
open and there will be a lot of daily breakage.  In that case step 6
is reportbug.  When the thrash is high is when Unstable also needs to
have Testing set in the sources.list.  Sometimes that is required to
step across transitions.

On Testing it is again the same.  It isn't quite as crazy as Unstable.
Thank the people running Unstable and reporting bugs preventing those
bugs from flowing into Testing.  Again running upgrade followed by
dist-upgrade leads APT more gently through and avoids a lot of problems.

On a Stable sytem 99.44% of the time only 1 and 2 are needed and I
stop there and jump to clean and then stop.  But every BIND9 security
upgrade for example always pulls in new libraries and can't be
upgraded in place.  Therefore after the upgrade if there are packages
still pending then I proceed through dist-upgrade and the rest.  I
strongly recommend using upgrade first followed by dist-upgrade.
Hopefully reportbug is only rarely needed on Stable.

Bob



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Ouch, sorry. Re: Jessie sufficiently stable for general use?

[Lisi Reisz]

Shouldn't rush.  My typing is lousy.  Herewith again:

> On Friday 06 March 2015 23:15:12 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Friday 06 March 2015 15:22:21 Miles Fidelman wrote:

> > > Somehow, anything that needs daily updates, or upgrades, does not meet
> > > any definition of "stable" that I'm familiar with.
> > >
> > > Miles Fidelman

It doesn't.  I would say it needs weekly updates.  And it has been said to
be "stable enough for general use" not "stable".  It's not the same thing.

Lisi


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Re: IO Problems (USB) seem to hang on Boot (AMD64)

[Micheal Smith]

So, I'm still having serious issues with this  thing: I used the following
procedure to update the grub-bootloader, from Linux Mint:

mount /dev/sda6 /mnt

sudo mount --bind /dev/ /mnt/dev

sudo mount --bind /proc/ /mnt/proc

sudo mount --bind /sys /mnt/sys

cp /etc/resolv.conf /mnt/etc/resolav.conf

sudo chroot /mnt

I then changed the line:
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="" to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="iommu=soft" and ran
update-grub.  I do have IOMMU disabled, and I did the same thing to my
Linux Mint Intallation, and now I can run *that* without IOMMU support
enabled.  I reloaded optimized defaults on the UEFI, and I saw my change in
GRUB2.

Now, I consistently get another error message when trying to boot.
[3.(something)] [drm] :01:00.0:  PMC unhandled INTR 0x4400

The error messages from recovery mode may be slightly more insightful:


[3.(something)]  [drm] nouveau :01:00.0: Register 0x00680520 not
found in PLL limits table
[3.(something)]  [drm] Supports Vblank Timestamp Caching Rev 1
(10.10.2010)
[3.(something)]  [drm] No driver support for vblank timestamp query.
[3.(something)]  [drm] nouveau :01:00.0 voltage table 0x50 Unknown
[3.(something)] [drm] nouveau :01:00.0: Register 0x not found
in PLL limits table
[3.(something)] [drm] nouveau :01:00.0: Failed to determine boot
perflvl
[3.(something)] [drm] nouveau :01:00.0: Pixel Clock Comparison
table not found

Otherwise this is a 100% squeeky clean fresh install of Debian.  A great
column of the item listed above this list precedes it.

Now I have no idea what is wrong

Thanks Again,
A user

Re: Jessie sufficiently stable for general use?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 06 March 2015 23:15:12 Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Friday 06 March 2015 15:22:21 Miles Fidelman wrote:
> > Brian wrote:
> > > On Fri 06 Mar 2015 at 09:27:23 -0800, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > >> On Fri, 06 Mar 2015, Ken Heard wrote:
> > >>> Thanks everybody for the collected wisdom.  So for me now Jessie
> > >>> RC1 is it.
> > >>
> > >> FYI: Do daily updates using dist-upgrade, instead of upgrade (or
> > >> the equivalent with aptitude, if you use that). Things change
> > >> quickly and sometimes majorly on the path to Stable.  You'll want
> > >> to get ALL those changes -- minor and major. "Upgrade" won't do
> > >> that. This is recommended by Debian.  Once Jessie is Stable, revert
> > >> to "upgrade" for the most part.
> > >
> > > I agree with everything but the final sentence. Stable is unlikely
> > > to pull in any new packages but if it does you will likely need
> > > them. In other words, 'dist-upgrade' should be the norm for stable.
> >
> > Somehow, anything that needs daily updates, or upgrades, does not meet
> > any definition of "stable" that I'm familiar with.
> >
> > Miles Fidelman

It doesn't.  I would say it needs weekly updates.  And ir has been said ot 
be "stable enough for general use" not "stable".  It's not teh sam ehting.

Lisi


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Re: Looking for document and file organisation tools

[Charlie]

On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 10:11:26 -0500 Celejar sent:

> I love recoll - I've been using it for years, and I find it
> invaluable. Not the most polished software in the world, but it
> really works wonders for me. [It's in the Debian official repos.]

I used it for quite a time myself, but there was something that I
didn't like, I think it produced huge indexes or something that put me
off? I had a smaller hard drive then.

Now I just use the find feature of mc, or grep.

I might have to look at recoll again, I just read a bit about it on the
net.

Thanks for jogging my memory.
Charlie

-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now
accepted was once eccentric. --Bertrand Russell

***

Debian GNU/Linux - just the best way to create magic

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Re: Jessie sufficiently stable for general use?

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 06 March 2015 15:22:21 Miles Fidelman wrote:
> Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 06 Mar 2015 at 09:27:23 -0800, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> >> On Fri, 06 Mar 2015, Ken Heard wrote:
> >>> Thanks everybody for the collected wisdom.  So for me now Jessie
> >>> RC1 is it.
> >>
> >> FYI: Do daily updates using dist-upgrade, instead of upgrade (or
> >> the equivalent with aptitude, if you use that). Things change
> >> quickly and sometimes majorly on the path to Stable.  You'll want
> >> to get ALL those changes -- minor and major. "Upgrade" won't do
> >> that. This is recommended by Debian.  Once Jessie is Stable, revert
> >> to "upgrade" for the most part.
> >
> > I agree with everything but the final sentence. Stable is unlikely
> > to pull in any new packages but if it does you will likely need
> > them. In other words, 'dist-upgrade' should be the norm for stable.
>
> Somehow, anything that needs daily updates, or upgrades, does not meet
> any definition of "stable" that I'm familiar with.
>
> Miles Fidelman

Poor choice of thinking IMO Miles.

Debian has zero control over what the black hat might do yet today, 
requiring a package or 2 to be updated in order to block the jerks. That 
is not a Debian (or use name of favorite os here) problem, its a black 
hat problem.

Me, I'm in favor of the old west's "Wanted, $25,000 reward for so and so, 
D.O.A." posters, bring him in, in any condition  to collect your reward.  
But who funds the reward?  Good question that...

OTOH, those jerks keep pushing us to ever more secure software, so they 
are in some sense "improving the breed too."

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: USB keyboard required replugging--how to avoid?

[Joe]

On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 22:19:59 +0100
Pascal Hambourg  wrote:

> Joe a écrit :
> > 
> > USB is a moderately complex networking protocol
> 
> USB is not a networking protocol.
> It is a master-slave peripheral communication bus, just like PCI or
> SATA.
> 
> 

It is not peer to peer, but neither is it simple master to slave. It is
hierarchical: each intermediate slave hub must engage in speed and
bandwidth negotiation both up and down the line. I thought it simpler
to say 'networking'.

-- 
Joe


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Re: USB keyboard required replugging--how to avoid?

[Pascal Hambourg]

Joe a écrit :
> 
> USB is a moderately complex networking protocol

USB is not a networking protocol.
It is a master-slave peripheral communication bus, just like PCI or SATA.


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Re: Re: For which package should I submit this bug report related to WebRTC's GetUserMedia?

[gutinna]

Thanks for the tip, but audio output is not the issue. I need to know where 
WebRTC's GetUserMedia gets its audio input sources from to find out where to 
submit a bug report.

Thomas

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Re: [OT] Its vs it's [Was: Re: "upgrade" versus "update".]

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 06 March 2015 20:06:00 Liam O'Toole wrote:
> On 2015-03-06, pe...@easthope.ca  wrote:
> > Its[sic] purpose is to keep the computer current with the latest security
> > (and other) updates automatically."
>
> The use of "Its" in the original is correct. It's not a mistake. ;-)

:-)

It's its problem, of course. ;-)

Lisi


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Re: Jessie sufficiently stable for general use?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 06 March 2015 20:11:52 Brian wrote:
> On Fri 06 Mar 2015 at 09:27:23 -0800, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Fri, 06 Mar 2015, Ken Heard wrote:
> > > Thanks everybody for the collected wisdom.  So for me now Jessie RC1
> > > is it.
> >
> > FYI: Do daily updates using dist-upgrade, instead of upgrade (or the
> > equivalent with aptitude, if you use that). Things change quickly and
> > sometimes majorly on the path to Stable.  You'll want to get ALL those
> > changes -- minor and major. "Upgrade" won't do that. This is
> > recommended by Debian.  Once Jessie is Stable, revert to "upgrade" for
> > the most part.
>
> I agree with everything but the final sentence. Stable is unlikely to
> pull in any new packages but if it does you will likely need them.
> In other words, 'dist-upgrade' should be the norm for stable.

I agree.  I always use full-upgrade (I use aptitude), unless there is a 
compelling reason why not.

Lisi


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Re: USB keyboard required replugging--how to avoid?

[Glenn English]

> On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 12:26:40 + (UTC)
> "Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum"  wrote:
> 
> 
>> The keyboard is a custom build and cannot
>> be replaced.

I don't know what was done to customize the keyboard. But can it be replaced 
for a few days/weeks (longer that it takes the regular one to crash), to see if 
another one will work reliably? I keep thinking it's gotta be the USB circuitry 
in the keyboard -- I'm assuming there's nothing but a USB cable between the 
keyboard and your computer. 

Maybe whoever customized the keyboard could diagnose/fix it. It may just be a 
bad chip or a loose connection inside the KB. 

-- 
Glenn English




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Re: "upgrade" versus "update".

[Pascal Hambourg]

Joe a écrit :
> 
> 'Upgrade' using apt-get is equivalent to
> 'safe-upgrade' using aptitude, and it means replacing as many packages
> as possible with the latest versions without removing

or installing

> packages other
> than those actually being replaced. 'Dist-upgrade' with apt-get, or
> 'full-upgrade' with aptitude does permit removal of packages.

Or installation of new packages. Both in order to comply with dependency
changes.

> It is
> quite rare for stable to need a removal-type upgrade, as its software
> is frozen in version terms unless a really serious security problem has
> been discovered which cannot be resolved by modifying any current
> packages.

I have never seen a stable or oldstable dist-upgrade remove a package.
However I have seen a few dist-upgrades installing new packages due to
dependencies changes in updated packages. Recently it happened with the
bind9 package update in squeeze-lts.


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Re: Jessie sufficiently stable for general use?

[Erwan David]

Le 06/03/2015 21:22, Miles Fidelman a écrit :
> Brian wrote:
>> On Fri 06 Mar 2015 at 09:27:23 -0800, Patrick Bartek wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 06 Mar 2015, Ken Heard wrote:
>>>
 Thanks everybody for the collected wisdom.  So for me now Jessie RC1
 is it.
>>> FYI: Do daily updates using dist-upgrade, instead of upgrade (or the
>>> equivalent with aptitude, if you use that). Things change quickly and
>>> sometimes majorly on the path to Stable.  You'll want to get ALL those
>>> changes -- minor and major. "Upgrade" won't do that. This is
>>> recommended by Debian.  Once Jessie is Stable, revert to "upgrade" for
>>> the most part.
>> I agree with everything but the final sentence. Stable is unlikely to
>> pull in any new packages but if it does you will likely need them.
>> In other words, 'dist-upgrade' should be the norm for stable.
>>
>
> Somehow, anything that needs daily updates, or upgrades, does not meet
> any definition of "stable" that I'm familiar with.
>
> Miles Fidelman
>
>
>
>
It does not need daily update. But some update must be done ASAP...


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Re: Jessie sufficiently stable for general use?

[Miles Fidelman]

Brian wrote:

On Fri 06 Mar 2015 at 09:27:23 -0800, Patrick Bartek wrote:


On Fri, 06 Mar 2015, Ken Heard wrote:


Thanks everybody for the collected wisdom.  So for me now Jessie RC1
is it.

FYI: Do daily updates using dist-upgrade, instead of upgrade (or the
equivalent with aptitude, if you use that). Things change quickly and
sometimes majorly on the path to Stable.  You'll want to get ALL those
changes -- minor and major. "Upgrade" won't do that. This is
recommended by Debian.  Once Jessie is Stable, revert to "upgrade" for
the most part.

I agree with everything but the final sentence. Stable is unlikely to
pull in any new packages but if it does you will likely need them.
In other words, 'dist-upgrade' should be the norm for stable.



Somehow, anything that needs daily updates, or upgrades, does not meet 
any definition of "stable" that I'm familiar with.


Miles Fidelman




--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra


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Re: Jessie sufficiently stable for general use?

[Brian]

On Fri 06 Mar 2015 at 09:27:23 -0800, Patrick Bartek wrote:

> On Fri, 06 Mar 2015, Ken Heard wrote:
> 
> > Thanks everybody for the collected wisdom.  So for me now Jessie RC1
> > is it.
> 
> FYI: Do daily updates using dist-upgrade, instead of upgrade (or the
> equivalent with aptitude, if you use that). Things change quickly and
> sometimes majorly on the path to Stable.  You'll want to get ALL those
> changes -- minor and major. "Upgrade" won't do that. This is
> recommended by Debian.  Once Jessie is Stable, revert to "upgrade" for
> the most part.

I agree with everything but the final sentence. Stable is unlikely to
pull in any new packages but if it does you will likely need them.
In other words, 'dist-upgrade' should be the norm for stable.


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[OT] Its vs it's [Was: Re: "upgrade" versus "update".]

[Liam O'Toole]

On 2015-03-06, pe...@easthope.ca  wrote:
> Its[sic] purpose is to keep the computer current with the latest security 
> (and other) updates automatically."

The use of "Its" in the original is correct. It's not a mistake. ;-)

-- 

Liam



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Re: "upgrade" versus "update".

[Joe]

On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 08:53:33 -0800
pe...@easthope.ca wrote:

> I get that "dist-upgrade" is the replacement of a distribution 
> by the subsequent distribution.  Replacement of wheezy by jessie 
> for example.  What is meant by "upgrade"?  In many places it
> appears to be synonymous with update.
> 
> For example, googling "site:debian.org update upgrade" yields, 
> https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades 
> "Running unattended-upgrades:
> Its[sic] purpose is to keep the computer current with the latest
> security (and other) updates automatically."
> 

In Debian apt terms, 'update' means to refresh the local list of
current packages, and to notify the user if some installed packages are
no longer the current versions. 'Upgrade' using apt-get is equivalent to
'safe-upgrade' using aptitude, and it means replacing as many packages
as possible with the latest versions without removing packages other
than those actually being replaced. 'Dist-upgrade' with apt-get, or
'full-upgrade' with aptitude does permit removal of packages. They are
not used only to upgrade to another distribution.

Many packages must always be removed in order to move to a 'newer'
distribution (though not necessarily every one), but it is also
sometimes necessary to remove packages in order to upgrade one package,
if for example the functionality of two packages have been merged, or
if a package set is being replaced by a version with a significantly
different architecture, with differently-named component packages. Many
major pieces of software are composed of a number of packages, and
different versions of the software are not always composed of the same
set.

The non-removal types of upgrade will warn if, on completion, they have
not been able upgrade everything, and investigation will usually show
that a removal-type upgrade is necessary to do finish the job. It is
quite rare for stable to need a removal-type upgrade, as its software
is frozen in version terms unless a really serious security problem has
been discovered which cannot be resolved by modifying any current
packages. Using dist-upgrade on stable is pretty much only done to
upgrade to the new stable, but it is used much more often on testing and
unstable, neither of which are ever replaced with newer versions.

-- 
Joe


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Re: "upgrade" versus "update".

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 06 March 2015 16:53:33 pe...@easthope.ca wrote:
> I get that "dist-upgrade" is the replacement of a distribution
> by the subsequent distribution. 

No, this is wrong.  It will only upgrade to the next version if you change 
your sources list to make it do so.  It will just completely upgrade to be as 
up to date as possible on the version in your sources list.

> Replacement of wheezy by jessie 
> for example.  

No - see above.

> What is meant by "upgrade"?  In many places it 
> appears to be synonymous with update.

Again, no.  Update in Debian is to get your database of packages and available 
upgrades/patches to packages up to date.  Upgrade is to install said updates.

> For example, googling "site:debian.org update upgrade" yields,
> https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades
> "Running unattended-upgrades:
> Its[sic] purpose is to keep the computer current with the latest security
> (and other) updates automatically."

Yes.   Updates exist, and you can add them to your database.  Upgrade installs 
them.  If they are in your database.

NOTE .rpm distributions are different.

Lisi


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Re: For which package should I submit this bug report related to WebRTC's GetUserMedia?

[Ric Moore]

On 03/06/2015 07:23 AM, guti...@runbox.com wrote:

Hi,

I want to submit a bug report concerning presumably WebRTC's GetUserMedia. I'm normally able to use 
my built-in microphone and web camera without problems, including automatically switching between 
the built-in microphone and any microphone i plug in (I'm running wheezy; my sound card is a 
Realtek ALC269). In Iceweasel, the audio output works like a charm, but when a website makes a 
WebRTC' GetUserMedia request, the prompt (for sharing devices) lists apart from "default" 
seemingly just a list of all (virtual) sound output possibilities (screenshot: 
https://img.bi/#/322PDTF!f1lGEAzGLq1GVswRfm25Av8Rkx2o6En5pKXzJzgX ), none of which works (other 
programs, like jitsi, mainly just display a "default" option, which works out of the 
box). The webcam, on the other hand, works like a charm. I get no errors.

No matter whether I use Tunderbird, Chromium or Firefox Nightly, the problem 
presists, so obviously it is not isolated to any one web browser.

Of course, I'd be really happy if anyone could help me fix the problem. But if 
this is not the right place, please tell me where I should submit the bug 
report.


If you have pavucontrol open, you should be able to pick and chose the 
output. Ric



--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html


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Re: "upgrade" versus "update".

[John Hasler]

man apt-get
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA


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Re: USB keyboard required replugging--how to avoid?

[Joe]

On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 12:26:40 + (UTC)
"Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum"  wrote:


> 
> At the (obvious in retrospect) suggestion of someone elsethread, I
> did just get a 6" extention cable, thus making it trivial to re-plug
> it when this happens. I'd rather it just works in the first place,
> but this will have to do. (The keyboard is a custom build and cannot
> be replaced.)
> 

A long shot: try plugging the keyboard via a USB hub, and if you have a
few hubs lying around, try all of them. There is supposedly a USB
standard, but not all implementations are created equal, and you might
find a hub with which your keyboard is happier, and which has no
problems with your computer USB port. USB is a moderately complex
networking protocol, and there are definitely compatibility issues with
some ports and peripherals.

-- 
Joe


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"upgrade" versus "update".

[peter]

I get that "dist-upgrade" is the replacement of a distribution 
by the subsequent distribution.  Replacement of wheezy by jessie 
for example.  What is meant by "upgrade"?  In many places it
appears to be synonymous with update.

For example, googling "site:debian.org update upgrade" yields, 
https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades 
"Running unattended-upgrades:
Its[sic] purpose is to keep the computer current with the latest security 
(and other) updates automatically."

Regards,  ... Peter E.

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Re: Problems with Helvetica font in ps-print files (was: Environment variables affecting postscript files?)

[Rodolfo Medina]

Rodolfo Medina  writes:

> I'm having troubles with ps files generated by Emacs ps-print package -
> footers are partially cut off.  Is it possibile that some environment
> variable causes the weird?  And how can I know (and work it out)?

The problem is worked out simply changing the font used for footers from
Helvetica to anyone else, e.g. Times.  So it seems to be related only with that
particular font.  What could it be?  I have Debian Sid.

Thanks,

Rodolfo


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Re: Jessie sufficiently stable for general use?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Fri, 06 Mar 2015, Ken Heard wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Thanks everybody for the collected wisdom.  So for me now Jessie RC1
> is it.

FYI: Do daily updates using dist-upgrade, instead of upgrade (or the
equivalent with aptitude, if you use that). Things change quickly and
sometimes majorly on the path to Stable.  You'll want to get ALL those
changes -- minor and major. "Upgrade" won't do that. This is
recommended by Debian.  Once Jessie is Stable, revert to "upgrade" for
the most part.


B  


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Re: apt-offline usage

[peter]

From:   Chris Bannister 
Date:   Sat, 7 Mar 2015 01:36:50 +1300
> If you are only going to install one package, why not just 
> download the deb file and use dpkg to install it?

When apt-offline is being used to update a system and 
an additional package is needed, "--install" is efficacious.

Also, apt-offline claims to solve dependancies automatically.
peter@armada:~$ man apt-offline | grep depend
   based system.  It can be used to download packages and its dependencies

> The tip I can offer is follow the directions. 

See above.

Regards,   ... Peter E.

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Re: Looking for document and file organisation tools

[Victor]

On 03/03/2015 18:13, Hendrik Boom wrote:

What free software is there in the way of organizing lots of documents?

To be more precise, the ones I *need* to organize are the files on hard
drives, though if I could include documents I have elsewhere (bookshelves
and photocopy files) I wouldn't mind.  They are text documents in a
variety of file formats and languages, source code for current and
obsolete systems, jpeg images, film clips, drawings, SVG files, files,
object code, shared libraries, fragments of drafts of books,  ragged
software documentation, works in progress ...

And I'm not looking for one single solution that will do everything I'd
like.  Indeed, I suspect that's impossible without building an entirely
new OS.  Which I'm not likely to find off the shelf, nor am I likely to
be able to do it myself in the few decades I may have left in my life.
And even if it were feasible, there's probably a lot of research to be
done before we even know what such a thing should actually do.

Of course the files are already semi-organized in directories.  But I
haven't yet managed to find a suitable collection of directory names.
Hierarchical classification isn't ideal -- there are files that fit in
several categories, and there are a lot files that have to be in a
particular location because of the way they are used (executables in a
bin directory, for example) or the way they are updated or maintained.

Of course the taxonomists would advise setting up a controlled vocabulary
of tags and attaching tags to the various files.  I'd end up with
triples store or some other database describing files.

But how to identify the files being tagged?  A file-system pathname isn't
enough.  Files get moved, and sometimes entire directory trees full of
files get moved from one place to another for various pragmatic reasons.
And a hashcode isn't enough.  files get edited, upgraded, recompiled,
reformatted, converted from JIS code to UTF-8, and so forth.  Images get
cropped and colour-corrected.  And under these changes they should keep
their assigned classification tags.

Now a number of file formats can accommodate metadata.  And some software
that manipulates files can preserve metadata and even allow user editing
of the metadata.  But more doesn't.

Much of it could perhaps be done by auttomatic content analysis.  Other
material may require labour-intensive manual classification.

No I don't expect to see any off-the-shelf solution for all of this.

But does anyone have ideas as to how to accomplish even some of this?
Even poorly?

Does anyone know of relevant practical tools?  Or have ideas towards
tools that *should* exist but currently don't?

I'm ready to experiment.

-- hendrik


For tagging your files, have you seen tmsu (http://tmsu.org/)? The 
homepage says:


   TMSU is a tool for tagging your files. It provides a simple
   command-line tool for applying tags and a virtual filesystem so that
   you can get a tag-based view of your files from within any other
   program.

   TMSU does not alter your files in any way: they remain unchanged on
   disk, or on the network, wherever you put them. TMSU maintains its
   own database and you simply gain an additional view, which you can
   mount, based upon the tags you set up. The only commitment required
   is your time and there's absolutely no lock-in.

Never used it myself. I’m not sure how it handles moving/renames of 
files, which is one of your concerns.  Maybe there’s something planned 
in it for that. At least it makes the tagged filesystem available in any 
program, which is quite convenient I think.

Re: Looking for document and file organisation tools

[Celejar]

On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 21:18:21 -0800 (PST)
Rusi Mody  wrote:

> On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 at 10:50:04 PM UTC+5:30, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > What free software is there in the way of organizing lots of documents?
> > 
> > To be more precise, the ones I *need* to organize are the files on hard 
> > drives, though if I could include documents I have elsewhere (bookshelves 
> > and photocopy files) I wouldn't mind.  They are text documents in a 
> > variety of file formats and languages, source code for current and 
> > obsolete systems, jpeg images, film clips, drawings, SVG files, files, 
> > object code, shared libraries, fragments of drafts of books,  ragged 
> > software documentation, works in progress ...
> > 
> > And I'm not looking for one single solution that will do everything I'd 
> > like.  Indeed, I suspect that's impossible without building an entirely 
> > new OS.  Which I'm not likely to find off the shelf, nor am I likely to 
> > be able to do it myself in the few decades I may have left in my life.
> > And even if it were feasible, there's probably a lot of research to be 
> > done before we even know what such a thing should actually do.
> > 
> > Of course the files are already semi-organized in directories.  But I 
> > haven't yet managed to find a suitable collection of directory names.  
> > Hierarchical classification isn't ideal
> 
> Bullseye!  As someone quipped: Why is google able to find things on the www
> better than I am able to find in my drive?
> In one word (rather two) hierarchical filesystems
> 
> Have you seen recoll http://www.lesbonscomptes.com/recoll/

I love recoll - I've been using it for years, and I find it invaluable.
Not the most polished software in the world, but it really works
wonders for me. [It's in the Debian official repos.]

Celejar


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Re: Thanks for all your suggestions regarding Xfce!

[Wilko Fokken]

I'll give it a try.


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For which package should I submit this bug report related to WebRTC's GetUserMedia?

[gutinna]

Hi,

I want to submit a bug report concerning presumably WebRTC's GetUserMedia. I'm 
normally able to use my built-in microphone and web camera without problems, 
including automatically switching between the built-in microphone and any 
microphone i plug in (I'm running wheezy; my sound card is a Realtek ALC269). 
In Iceweasel, the audio output works like a charm, but when a website makes a 
WebRTC' GetUserMedia request, the prompt (for sharing devices) lists apart from 
"default" seemingly just a list of all (virtual) sound output possibilities 
(screenshot: https://img.bi/#/322PDTF!f1lGEAzGLq1GVswRfm25Av8Rkx2o6En5pKXzJzgX 
), none of which works (other programs, like jitsi, mainly just display a 
"default" option, which works out of the box). The webcam, on the other hand, 
works like a charm. I get no errors.

No matter whether I use Tunderbird, Chromium or Firefox Nightly, the problem 
presists, so obviously it is not isolated to any one web browser.

Of course, I'd be really happy if anyone could help me fix the problem. But if 
this is not the right place, please tell me where I should submit the bug 
report.

Regards
Thomas

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Re: USB keyboard required replugging--how to avoid?

[Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum]

- Original Message -
> From: Gary Dale 
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Cc: 
> Sent: Monday, March 2, 2015 11:05 AM
> Subject: Re: USB keyboard required replugging--how to avoid?
> 
> On 02/03/15 08:22 AM, Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum wrote:
> 
>>  Hi, i have a USB keyboard that, every week or three, will drop off, and 
> require replugging to work again. It is immediately recognized and works fine 
> after I do this This was the case on a previous Wheezy system, and it still 
> happens on a Jessie box I built.
>> 
>>  The problem is that the new box has hard-to-access USB ports, so in order 
> to replug the keyboard, I have to remove a panel, so its not just a quick 
> step.
>> 
>>  I realize that there's probably no easy solution--if the keyboard 
> doesn't respond, i cant enter a command to re-recognize it--but are there 
> any things i can try that would help prevent this from happening in the first 
> place?
>> 
>> 
> In order to fix a problem, you first need to identify what is causing 
> it. Is there any log entry(s) related to the keyboard?


Sorry for the delay, i needed to wait for it to happen again.

No, there are no useful log messages. When the keyboard drops off, there is 
nothing in the logs to indicate this; when i re-plug it, I get a usual list of 
messages with nothing indicating that theres a problem.

At the (obvious in retrospect) suggestion of someone elsethread, I did just get 
a 6" extention cable, thus making it trivial to re-plug it when this happens. 
I'd rather it just works in the first place, but this will have to do. (The 
keyboard is a custom build and cannot be replaced.)

Thanks.

Jen


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Re: xfce 4.12 in Debian.

[Chris Bannister]

On Wed, Mar 04, 2015 at 11:20:10AM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Wednesday 04 March 2015 11:04:20 Chris Bannister wrote:
> > I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she
> > must be quiet. Timothy 2:12
> 
> Tongue in cheek, I hope??

Very much so. Annoying, aren't they.

-- 
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who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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Re: A suggestion for a new programme in Debian 8?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 06 March 2015 10:13:22 Darac Marjal wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 05, 2015 at 08:36:39PM +, ludo0...@dbmail.com wrote:
> >Dear Sirs and Madames,
> >
> >Could I allow myself to express a wish for the next version of Debian:
> > it would be to have the DVD authoring programme "bombono" (see
> >[1]http://www.bombono.org) on the distribution.
> >
> >Very many thanks for this in advance.
>
> The correct way to log this is to report a bug against the "wnpp"
> pseudo-package, of thetype "RFP" (Request for Package) or, more
> helpfully, "ITP" (Intent To Package).
>
> Fortunately for you, someone has already done this:
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=690032
>
> If you like, you might want to contact the original author of the bug
> report and see if they'd like any help packaging the application.

For 9, of course.

Lisi


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Re: A suggestion for a new programme in Debian 8?

[Darac Marjal]

On Thu, Mar 05, 2015 at 08:36:39PM +, ludo0...@dbmail.com wrote:
>Dear Sirs and Madames,
> 
>Could I allow myself to express a wish for the next version of Debian: it
>would be to have the DVD authoring programme "bombono" (see
>[1]http://www.bombono.org) on the distribution.
> 
>Very many thanks for this in advance.

The correct way to log this is to report a bug against the "wnpp"
pseudo-package, of thetype "RFP" (Request for Package) or, more
helpfully, "ITP" (Intent To Package).

Fortunately for you, someone has already done this:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=690032

If you like, you might want to contact the original author of the bug
report and see if they'd like any help packaging the application.

> 
>ludo
> 
> References
> 
>Visible links
>1. http://www.bombono.org)/


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Description: Digital signature

Re: IO Problems (USB) seem to hang on Boot (AMD64)

[Darac Marjal]

On Thu, Mar 05, 2015 at 02:01:38PM -0600, Micheal Smith wrote:
>To all Glorious Saviors:
>Installation goes smooth.  When asked, during installation, I install
>device-specific drivers.  For the record, this is the AMD64 distribution. 
>So, whenever my IOMMU Contoller is enabled on the UEFI of the motherboard,
>I get this error: [  1.669503] AMD-Vi: Event Logged [IO_PAGE_FAULT
>device=2:00.0 domain=0x0017 address=0xbe9f9880 flags=0x0010]
>filling my screen.

Apparently, this is a known issue with the AMD-VI IOMMU. The solution
(according to the interwebs) is to add "iommu=soft" to the kernel
command line (and disable the hardware IOMMU). Hopefully, the errors
below are due to the lack of proper IOMMU and using the software IOMMU
will help.

>When IOMMU is disabled, I get along the lines of [    2 OR 3 OR 4 OR 5 .
>(randomnumber)]usb 3-5 device descriptor read/64, error -32.  
>Somehow, I've also generated an error along the lines of: [   20.979743]
> nouveau :01:00.0: PMC unhandled INTR 0x4400
>The only success I've had in dealing with this is when I tried to use
>clonezilla, it was having serious problems.  I was able to get *it*
>working (the Ubuntu-based version) with the following command in the boot
>parameters: "quiet splash usbcore.old_scheme_first=1".  However, no such
>luck with Debian
>The install process is fine.  I just *can't* get it to boot.
>Sincerely, 
>A User


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Re: A suggestion for a new programme in Debian 8?

[Floris]

Op Thu, 05 Mar 2015 23:13:21 +0100 schreef Martin Read  
:



On 05/03/15 20:36, ludo0...@dbmail.com wrote:

Could I allow myself to express a wish for the next version of Debian:
it would be to have the DVD authoring programme "bombono" (see
http://www.bombono.org) on the distribution.


No new software will be added to Debian 8 at this point; it has been in  
freeze since 2014.11.05.


You are free to suggest software to be introduced into Debian unstable  
with a view to it being included in Debian *9*, of course.





it is already on deb-multimedia.org

Installation instructions:
http://www.bombono.org/cgi-bin/wiki/Download/Debian

Success,

floris


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