USB (permissions ?) problem on newly installed Bullseye : usb scanner wont communicate
Hi to Everyone, My old Debian Stretch having crashed after last update, I installed Bullseye. Most things operate OK after re-installing, except so far: 'gphoto2' and my Epson Scanner Perfection v500. I have re-installed the scanner using : epsonscan2_6.7.43.0-1_amd64.deb and epsonscan2_non-free-plugin_1.0.0.6-1.deb and the installed went Ok ; the scanner is reckognised and it appears on the list... But it does not operate ! Upon launching, it says: "impossible to communicate with the scanner... Verify if it is connected to usb port and powered on..." then appears a box showing : "EPSON EPSON scanner : USB:001:009", and I can't connect to it. Same thing with "gphoto2" once my camera is connected to usb port : $ gphoto2 --auto-detect => CANON EOS 600D usb: 001,015 OK, it is reckognized... but, now if I type: gphoto2 -L "Impossible to communicate with the USB peripherics..." Back to my scanner : # sane-find-scanner ...Could not fetch... Pipe error found USB scanner vendor=0x04b8 [EPSON] , PRODUCT=0x0130 [EPSON Scanner] at libusb:001:009 ls -l /dev/bus/usb/001/009 crw-rw-rw-+ root root Thanks in advance for your help
ndiswrapper (was: Re: Drivers for old Packard Bell scanner needed?)
On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 11:11:04 AM daven...@tuxfamily.org wrote: > Isn't ndiswrapper specific to networking/wireless network drivers? > I don't think it just works for any kind of drivers. AS far as I can > tell, it was designed specifically for WiFi cards. I used it for Ethernet (not WiFi) cards back in the day. -- rhk (sig revised 20221206) If you reply: snip, snip, and snip again; leave attributions; avoid HTML; avoid top posting; and keep it "on list". (Oxford comma (and semi-colon) included at no charge.) If you revise the topic, change the Subject: line. If you change the topic, start a new thread. Writing is often meant for others to read and understand (legal documents excepted?) -- make it easier for your reader by various means, including liberal use of whitespace (short paragraphs, separated by whitespace / blank lines) and minimal use of (obscure?) jargon, abbreviations, acronyms, and references. If someone has already responded to a question, decide whether any response you add will be helpful or not ... A picture is worth a thousand words. A video (or "audio"): not so much -- divide by 10 for each minute of video (or audio) or create a transcript and edit it to 10% of the original. A speaker who uses ahhs, ums, or such may have a real physical or mental disability, or may be showing disrespect for his listeners by not properly preparing in advance and thinking before speaking. (Remember Cicero who did not have enough time to write a short missive.) (That speaker might have been "trained" to do this by being interrupted often if he pauses.) A radio (or TV) station which broadcasts speakers with high pitched voices (or very low pitched / gravelly voices) (which older people might not be able to hear properly) disrespects its listeners. Likewise if it broadcasts extraneous or disturbing sounds (like gunfire or crying), or broadcasts speakers using their native language (with or without an overdubbed translation). A person who writes a sig this long probably has issues and disrespects (and offends) a large number of readers. ;-) '
Re: Drivers for old Packard Bell scanner needed?
Hello On 2023-01-11 15:39, David Wright wrote: On Wed 11 Jan 2023 at 14:25:39 (+), Ottavio Caruso wrote: Local charity shop sells a desktop scanner for next to nothing. I could buy it and try it but it's very bulky and it's a long walk. So I'd like to have a clue beforehand if it's supported. The item is a Packard Bell Slimline PB 61428. I googled it but haven't found anything relevant to Linux. The packaging mentions Windows 98. I remember back in the day, the was a wrapper for old Windows drivers, I can't remember its name. Presumably you're thinking of ndiswrapper, which was also recommended recently in https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/01/msg00173.html Isn't ndiswrapper specific to networking/wireless network drivers? I don't think it just works for any kind of drivers. AS far as I can tell, it was designed specifically for WiFi cards. But I have never used it. I'm not a huge WiFi fan/heavy user. And when I do use it, I've always used cards or USB dongles with native a GNU/Linux driver. AFAICT this package did not make it into bullseye, and seems to have fallen by the wayside: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/ndiswrapper Or am I supposed to just plug it in and expect it to work? That's outside my sphere of knowledge. Cheers, David.
Re: Drivers for old Packard Bell scanner needed?
On Wed 11 Jan 2023 at 17:11:04 (+0100), daven...@tuxfamily.org wrote: > On 2023-01-11 15:39, David Wright wrote: > > On Wed 11 Jan 2023 at 14:25:39 (+), Ottavio Caruso wrote: > > > Local charity shop sells a desktop scanner for next to nothing. I > > > could buy it and try it but it's very bulky and it's a long walk. So > > > I'd like to have a clue beforehand if it's supported. > > > > > > The item is a Packard Bell Slimline PB 61428. > > > > > > I googled it but haven't found anything relevant to Linux. The > > > packaging mentions Windows 98. I remember back in the day, the was a > > > wrapper for old Windows drivers, I can't remember its name. > > > > Presumably you're thinking of ndiswrapper, which was also recommended > > recently in https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/01/msg00173.html > > Isn't ndiswrapper specific to networking/wireless network drivers? > I don't think it just works for any kind of drivers. AS far as I can > tell, it was designed specifically for WiFi cards. > > But I have never used it. I'm not a huge WiFi fan/heavy user. And when > I do use it, I've always used cards or USB dongles with native a > GNU/Linux driver. You're probably right. It's probably jessie since I used it for a WNDA3100 v2 dongle, when I had problems with one of my laptop's wireless, and I'm so oversupplied with Cat5 ports and Netgear Powerlines that I have no need to use it nowadays. > > AFAICT this package did not make it into bullseye, and seems to have > > fallen by the wayside: > > > > https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/ndiswrapper > > > > > Or am I supposed to just plug it in and expect it to work? > > > > That's outside my sphere of knowledge. Cheers, David.
Re: Drivers for old Packard Bell scanner needed?
On 1/11/23 16:25, Ottavio Caruso wrote: Local charity shop sells a desktop scanner for next to nothing. I could buy it and try it but it's very bulky and it's a long walk. So I'd like to have a clue beforehand if it's supported. The item is a Packard Bell Slimline PB 61428. I googled it but haven't found anything relevant to Linux. The packaging mentions Windows 98. I remember back in the day, the was a wrapper for old Windows drivers, I can't remember its name. Or am I supposed to just plug it in and expect it to work? Hi Ottavio, this is a database with supported scanners by SANE - http://www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html#Z-PACKARD-BELL This scanner is not listed as a supported device. Kind regards Georgi
Re: Drivers for old Packard Bell scanner needed?
Ottavio Caruso wrote: > Local charity shop sells a desktop scanner for next to nothing. I could buy > it and try it but it's very bulky and it's a long walk. So I'd like to have > a clue beforehand if it's supported. > > The item is a Packard Bell Slimline PB 61428. > > I googled it but haven't found anything relevant to Linux. The packaging > mentions Windows 98. I remember back in the day, the was a wrapper for old > Windows drivers, I can't remember its name. I would guess this is unlikely to work at all. It predates any of the modern standards for scanning, and Packard Bell was never a high-quality manufacturer, so it probably doesn't conform to any of the older standards, either. Honestly, a 24 year old consumer-grade scanner is not going to be a good value even if it's free. -dsr-
Re: Drivers for old Packard Bell scanner needed?
On Wed 11 Jan 2023 at 14:25:39 (+), Ottavio Caruso wrote: > Local charity shop sells a desktop scanner for next to nothing. I > could buy it and try it but it's very bulky and it's a long walk. So > I'd like to have a clue beforehand if it's supported. > > The item is a Packard Bell Slimline PB 61428. > > I googled it but haven't found anything relevant to Linux. The > packaging mentions Windows 98. I remember back in the day, the was a > wrapper for old Windows drivers, I can't remember its name. Presumably you're thinking of ndiswrapper, which was also recommended recently in https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/01/msg00173.html AFAICT this package did not make it into bullseye, and seems to have fallen by the wayside: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/ndiswrapper > Or am I supposed to just plug it in and expect it to work? That's outside my sphere of knowledge. Cheers, David.
Re: Drivers for old Packard Bell scanner needed?
On 1/11/23 09:26, Ottavio Caruso wrote: Local charity shop sells a desktop scanner for next to nothing. I could buy it and try it but it's very bulky and it's a long walk. So I'd like to have a clue beforehand if it's supported. The item is a Packard Bell Slimline PB 61428. I googled it but haven't found anything relevant to Linux. The packaging mentions Windows 98. I remember back in the day, the was a wrapper for old Windows drivers, I can't remember its name. Or am I supposed to just plug it in and expect it to work? Run, do not walk, to the nearest exit, taking your cash with you. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
Re: Drucker/Scanner HP ENVY 6020e WLAN damit scannen und Email versenden
On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 09:59:54PM +0200, diverses wrote: > Hallo, > mein USB Drucker ist kaputt gegangen. Da hatte ich z.B. ein Script > geschrieben wo ich nach jeder Seite eine Taste gedrückt haben, dann wurde > die nächste gescannt. Und zum Schluss eine Taste dann wurde daraus ein pdf > gemacht und per Email versandt. > Auf die Schnelle habe ich nun ein HP ENVY 6020e gekauft. > Das Ding ist über WLAN anzusprechen mit HP Smart. Dann habe ich aber mit > meinen SAMSUNG Smartphone habe keine andere Verbindungen mehr und kann das > nicht mehr gleich als Email versenden. > Ist das so gewollt oder mache ich einen Denkfehler wie man das sonst alles > anders machen könnte. > Gruss Thomas [english below] Hey Thomas, das ist eine englischsprachige Mailingliste. Du hast vielleicht mehr Glück in debian-user-german [1] haben. Mit Druckern kenne ich mich leider nicht aus, aber die beste Seite, die ich kenne, um solche Dinge zu klären ist hier [2]. Ich schaue da immer rein /bevor/ ich eine Kaufempfehlung ausspreche. Hersteller von Druckern haben oft seltsame Ideen. [English] Hey, Thomas this is an English-speaking mailing list. You are perhaps luckier at [1]. Unfortunately, I don't know much about printers, but the best page I know to clear up such things is here [2]. I always have a look there /before/ recommending anything to buy. Printer manufacturers often have strange ideas on how they want to treat their customers. Grüsse [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-german/ [2] https://openprinting.org/ -- tomás signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Drucker/Scanner HP ENVY 6020e WLAN damit scannen und Email versenden
Hallo, mein USB Drucker ist kaputt gegangen. Da hatte ich z.B. ein Script geschrieben wo ich nach jeder Seite eine Taste gedrückt haben, dann wurde die nächste gescannt. Und zum Schluss eine Taste dann wurde daraus ein pdf gemacht und per Email versandt. Auf die Schnelle habe ich nun ein HP ENVY 6020e gekauft. Das Ding ist über WLAN anzusprechen mit HP Smart. Dann habe ich aber mit meinen SAMSUNG Smartphone habe keine andere Verbindungen mehr und kann das nicht mehr gleich als Email versenden. Ist das so gewollt oder mache ich einen Denkfehler wie man das sonst alles anders machen könnte. Gruss Thomas
Drucker/Scanner HP ENVY 6020e WLAN damit scannen und Email versenden
Hallo, mein USB Drucker ist kaputt gegangen. Da hatte ich z.B. ein Script geschrieben wo ich nach jeder Seite eine Taste gedrückt haben, dann wurde die nächste gescannt. Und zum Schluss eine Taste dann wurde daraus ein pdf gemacht und per Email versandt. Auf die Schnelle habe ich nun ein HP ENVY 6020e gekauft. Das Ding ist über WLAN anzusprechen mit HP Smart. Dann habe ich aber mit meinen SAMSUNG Smartphone habe keine andere Verbindungen mehr und kann das nicht mehr gleich als Email versenden. Ist das so gewollt oder mache ich einen Denkfehler wie man das sonst alles anders machen könnte. Gruss Thomas
Drucker/Scanner HP ENVY 6020e WLAN damit scannen und Email versenden
Hallo, mein USB Drucker ist kaputt gegangen. Da hatte ich z.B. ein Script geschrieben wo ich nach jeder Seite eine Taste gedrückt haben, dann wurde die nächste gescannt. Und zum Schluss eine Taste dann wurde daraus ein pdf gemacht und per Email versandt. Auf die Schnelle habe ich nun ein HP ENVY 6020e gekauft. Das Ding ist über WLAN anzusprechen mit HP Smart. Dann habe ich aber mit meinen SAMSUNG Smartphone habe keine andere Verbindungen mehr und kann das nicht mehr gleich als Email versenden. Ist das so gewollt oder mache ich einen Denkfehler wie man das sonst alles anders machen könnte. Gruss Thomas
Re: scanner recommendation
On Sat, 24 Apr 2021 14:59:12 -0400 Default User wrote: > > Thanks to all for the information. > > In regard to Brian's request for more information, my use case is > mostly just trying to digitize decades of personal paper documents, > such as letters, pictures, greeting cards, etc. > And also to occasionally satisfy the demand of a company or other > institution, for some business-related or legal matter. > > After some thought, I am leaning toward just getting another > stationary flatbed scanner only, rather than a multi-function device > or mobile scanner. I don't plan to take it on the road. And often, > simpler is better. And I like the idea of device modularity, i.e., > that if my scanner goes out, my separate printer would still work > fine. And vice-versa. I've stayed out of this so far as I have just one old single-purpose scanner. It hasn't been heavily used, but it's just coming up to 20 years old, which is a reliability datum. It's a Canon Lide 20. I also prefer single-function devices. A minor point here: my wife uses a printer for craft work, and needs to use heavy media i.e. 250-300gsm. This implies as straight a paper path as possible, hence a top-feed printer, hence not one with a scanner on the top. > > I do NOT need a device that will send faxes, make phone calls, or make > coffee in the morning. > > I DO need something that should be reliable, last a while, and work > under Debian (64-bit) with a minimum of configuration. In that > regard, note that Simple-Scan worked fine for me, but Xsane seems > maybe too complicated for my needs currently. Yes, I use Simple Scan. XSane will do all kinds of wonderful things, but I prefer to do them in Gimp, which is even more versatile. If a scanner driver could actually alter the gamma of the pickup devices, that would tilt the balance, but they can't, it's all processing. > > Unfortunately, I have some other, more important things going on right > now that require my attention and have higher priority than replacing > the scanner. Indeed. I'd like something a bit quicker, but I'm not willing to pay the current price for standalone scanners, so I'll carry on with this antique as long as it's willing. -- Joe
Re: scanner recommendation
On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 10:27 AM Russell wrote: > > Brian wrote: > > > As with all of these asking for recommendations type questions, there > > is little detail provided. For example, do you want a standalone scanner > > or would an MFD suit? > > > > sane-airscan supports all modern MFDs. Shopping online would allow you > > to submit your preferred choice here for scrutiny. > > > > I really like my HP MFD laser printer/scanner. I use a combination of > hplip and CUPS and I'm able to scan over wifi in SimpleScan and XSane. I > used hp-makeuri that is part of hplip and used that URI to add the > printer in the CUPS web interface. > > Altough, I've never gotten the autofeed to work properly... :( > > -- > rust > 0x68caecc97f6a90122e51c0692c88d9cb6b58a3dc > Thanks to all for the information. In regard to Brian's request for more information, my use case is mostly just trying to digitize decades of personal paper documents, such as letters, pictures, greeting cards, etc. And also to occasionally satisfy the demand of a company or other institution, for some business-related or legal matter. After some thought, I am leaning toward just getting another stationary flatbed scanner only, rather than a multi-function device or mobile scanner. I don't plan to take it on the road. And often, simpler is better. And I like the idea of device modularity, i.e., that if my scanner goes out, my separate printer would still work fine. And vice-versa. I do NOT need a device that will send faxes, make phone calls, or make coffee in the morning. I DO need something that should be reliable, last a while, and work under Debian (64-bit) with a minimum of configuration. In that regard, note that Simple-Scan worked fine for me, but Xsane seems maybe too complicated for my needs currently. Unfortunately, I have some other, more important things going on right now that require my attention and have higher priority than replacing the scanner. So it might take a little while. But thanks again for the replies.
Re: scanner recommendation
Brian wrote: > As with all of these asking for recommendations type questions, there > is little detail provided. For example, do you want a standalone scanner > or would an MFD suit? > > sane-airscan supports all modern MFDs. Shopping online would allow you > to submit your preferred choice here for scrutiny. > I really like my HP MFD laser printer/scanner. I use a combination of hplip and CUPS and I'm able to scan over wifi in SimpleScan and XSane. I used hp-makeuri that is part of hplip and used that URI to add the printer in the CUPS web interface. Altough, I've never gotten the autofeed to work properly... :( -- rust 0x68caecc97f6a90122e51c0692c88d9cb6b58a3dc
Re: scanner recommendation
On Mon 19 Apr 2021 at 14:02:22 -0400, Default User wrote: [...} > Okay, thanks guys! > > Now it's either: > 1 - shop online, buy something sight-unseen, and hope it works, or > 2 - shop by visiting one or more of the few physical stores remaining, and > risk dying of Covid-19 or its mutations. > > Decisions, decisions . . . As with all of these asking for recommendations type questions, there is little detail provided. For example, do you want a standalone scanner or would an MFD suit? sane-airscan supports all modern MFDs. Shopping online would allow you to submit your preferred choice here for scrutiny. -- Brian.
Re: scanner recommendation
On Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 09:12 Jonathan Dowland wrote: > On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 08:48:12AM +0200, john doe wrote: > >You could choose a scanner that is 'complete'ly supported from the Sane > >(1) project > > > >1) www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html#SCANNERS > > Excellent advice. For this reason I recently bought a 2nd-hand Canon > LiDE 25 and I'm perfectly happy with it. > > -- > Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list. > > 👱🏻Jonathan Dowland > ✎j...@debian.org > 🔗 https://jmtd.net Okay, thanks guys! Now it's either: 1 - shop online, buy something sight-unseen, and hope it works, or 2 - shop by visiting one or more of the few physical stores remaining, and risk dying of Covid-19 or its mutations. Decisions, decisions . . .
Re: scanner recommendation
On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 08:48:12AM +0200, john doe wrote: You could choose a scanner that is 'complete'ly supported from the Sane (1) project 1) www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html#SCANNERS Excellent advice. For this reason I recently bought a 2nd-hand Canon LiDE 25 and I'm perfectly happy with it. -- Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list. 👱🏻 Jonathan Dowland ✎j...@debian.org 🔗 https://jmtd.net
Re: scanner recommendation
On Mon 19 Apr 2021 at 09:31:47 +0200, Klaus Jantzen wrote: [...] > I am using a CanoScan LiDE 400. I bought it because they have a (very > simple) Linux support. > > The software is a not very clever but works nicely. The images (jpg, pdf) > are good. There are a lot of buttons on the machine but you cannot use them. > > I tried to use xsane but that does not know the scanner. My advice would be to read here: https://github.com/alexpevzner/sane-airscan sane-airscan is shipped on bullseye and in backports on buster. ipp-usb is the default on bullseye (see its Release Notes), but it will have to be obtained from the above link on buster and have "interface = all" put in /etc/ipp-usb/ipp-usb.conf. Xsane and simple-scan now become usable. sane-airscan is much better than anything provided ny Canon. -- Brian.
Re: scanner recommendation
On 4/18/21 9:57 PM, Default User wrote: Hi! It may be time for a new scanner. For years I have used a Visioneer OneTouch 7100 usb flatbed scanner on various x86 computers running various versions of Debian and simple-scan. Currently: Debian Unstable (updated, of course) Linux 5.10.0-6-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.28-1 (2021-04-09) x86_64 GNU/Linux Cinnamon 4.8.6-2 Dell Inspiron 3542 (laptop, circa 2015), 64-bit Scanner software: simple-scan, from Debian Unstable repositories Use case: light duty home use. For years it worked "okay". But it suddenly started producing scans with a narrow pink stripe down the left side of the scan image produced. I tried installing xsane (too complicated for me), which I did not configure at all. And if I just clicked the scan button in xsane it would "dim out" and then do nothing. As a bonus, simple-scan then no longer worked; upon clicking scan in simple-scan it would just do nothing, with a rotating "activity busy" circle displaying indefinitely. So I uninstalled (purged) both xsane and simple-scan, re-installed simple-scan, then rebooted. Simple-scan now "works", but still produces the pink stripe down the image left side, just as before. : ( Note: the scanner is (about) 20 years, so no parts or service available from Visioneer. : ( So . . . Can anyone recommend a good replacement scanner? I am really hoping to get something that works "out of the box", with little or no configuration, etc. I am using a CanoScan LiDE 400. I bought it because they have a (very simple) Linux support. The software is a not very clever but works nicely. The images (jpg, pdf) are good. There are a lot of buttons on the machine but you cannot use them. I tried to use xsane but that does not know the scanner. -- K.D.J.
Re: scanner recommendation
Gregory Seidman wrote: > It's a cheap workhorse. I haven't tried it with Linux but it doesn't > require any special software or drivers on macOS, which makes me think it > is entirely open standard. and how do you operate it on mac? and why you are posting when you are not sure it works under linux?
Re: scanner recommendation
On 4/18/2021 9:57 PM, Default User wrote: Hi! It may be time for a new scanner. For years I have used a Visioneer OneTouch 7100 usb flatbed scanner on various x86 computers running various versions of Debian and simple-scan. Currently: Debian Unstable (updated, of course) Linux 5.10.0-6-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.28-1 (2021-04-09) x86_64 GNU/Linux Cinnamon 4.8.6-2 Dell Inspiron 3542 (laptop, circa 2015), 64-bit Scanner software: simple-scan, from Debian Unstable repositories Use case: light duty home use. For years it worked "okay". But it suddenly started producing scans with a narrow pink stripe down the left side of the scan image produced. I tried installing xsane (too complicated for me), which I did not configure at all. And if I just clicked the scan button in xsane it would "dim out" and then do nothing. As a bonus, simple-scan then no longer worked; upon clicking scan in simple-scan it would just do nothing, with a rotating "activity busy" circle displaying indefinitely. So I uninstalled (purged) both xsane and simple-scan, re-installed simple-scan, then rebooted. Simple-scan now "works", but still produces the pink stripe down the image left side, just as before. : ( Note: the scanner is (about) 20 years, so no parts or service available from Visioneer. : ( So . . . Can anyone recommend a good replacement scanner? I am really hoping to get something that works "out of the box", with little or no configuration, etc. You could choose a scanner that is 'complete'ly supported from the Sane (1) project 1) www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html#SCANNERS -- John Doe
Re: scanner recommendation
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/products/details/scanners/photo-scanner/canoscan-lide-110 It's a cheap workhorse. I haven't tried it with Linux but it doesn't require any special software or drivers on macOS, which makes me think it is entirely open standard. --Gregory On Sun, Apr 18, 2021 at 03:57:30PM -0400, Default User wrote: > Hi! > > It may be time for a new scanner. > > For years I have used a Visioneer OneTouch 7100 usb flatbed scanner on > various x86 computers running various versions of Debian and > simple-scan. > > Currently: > Debian Unstable (updated, of course) > Linux 5.10.0-6-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.28-1 (2021-04-09) x86_64 GNU/Linux > Cinnamon 4.8.6-2 > Dell Inspiron 3542 (laptop, circa 2015), 64-bit > Scanner software: simple-scan, from Debian Unstable repositories > Use case: light duty home use. > > For years it worked "okay". But it suddenly started producing scans > with a narrow pink stripe down the left side of the scan image > produced. > > I tried installing xsane (too complicated for me), which I did not > configure at all. And if I just clicked the scan button in xsane it > would "dim out" and then do nothing. As a bonus, simple-scan then no > longer worked; upon clicking scan in simple-scan it would just do > nothing, with a rotating "activity busy" circle displaying > indefinitely. > > So I uninstalled (purged) both xsane and simple-scan, re-installed > simple-scan, then rebooted. > Simple-scan now "works", but still produces the pink stripe down the > image left side, just as before. > > : ( > > Note: the scanner is (about) 20 years, so no parts or service > available from Visioneer. > > : ( > > So . . . > Can anyone recommend a good replacement scanner? > > I am really hoping to get something that works "out of the box", with > little or no configuration, etc. > >
scanner recommendation
Hi! It may be time for a new scanner. For years I have used a Visioneer OneTouch 7100 usb flatbed scanner on various x86 computers running various versions of Debian and simple-scan. Currently: Debian Unstable (updated, of course) Linux 5.10.0-6-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.28-1 (2021-04-09) x86_64 GNU/Linux Cinnamon 4.8.6-2 Dell Inspiron 3542 (laptop, circa 2015), 64-bit Scanner software: simple-scan, from Debian Unstable repositories Use case: light duty home use. For years it worked "okay". But it suddenly started producing scans with a narrow pink stripe down the left side of the scan image produced. I tried installing xsane (too complicated for me), which I did not configure at all. And if I just clicked the scan button in xsane it would "dim out" and then do nothing. As a bonus, simple-scan then no longer worked; upon clicking scan in simple-scan it would just do nothing, with a rotating "activity busy" circle displaying indefinitely. So I uninstalled (purged) both xsane and simple-scan, re-installed simple-scan, then rebooted. Simple-scan now "works", but still produces the pink stripe down the image left side, just as before. : ( Note: the scanner is (about) 20 years, so no parts or service available from Visioneer. : ( So . . . Can anyone recommend a good replacement scanner? I am really hoping to get something that works "out of the box", with little or no configuration, etc.
Re: xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
> I tried a freshly-formatted 16GB stick, and the document scanned > successfully. The PDF is just shy of 40MB for 360 pages. The Most likely the document is first scanned to a set of separate uncompressed pages (maybe kept in separate files) and only converted to a PDF at the end, hence the need for a lot of extra space. Stefan
Re: xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
On Sat Apr 3 16:42:15 2021 John Boxall wrote: > On 2021-04-03 1:00 p.m., Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> On 2021-04-02 10:56 a.m., Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >> the error message. I forget the exact wording, but it >> was pretty specific about the USB device being full, >> as opposed to some sort of internal memory overflow. > > Charlie, > > It is also a possibility that your USB thumb drive _doesn't_ have the > capacity that it says it does. There are a lot of "fake" USB thumb > drives that have far less capacity than advertised. Would you be able > to try an external hard drive connected via a USB adapter? I tried a freshly-formatted 16GB stick, and the document scanned successfully. The PDF is just shy of 40MB for 360 pages. The scanner was hiccuping a lot toward the end, though - I suspect that its algorithms don't scale up nicely beyond 300 pages or so. That's not a disaster - I can always scan smaller chunks (say, 200 pages) and put them together with pdfunite. -- cgi...@surfnaked.ca (Charlie Gibbs)
Re: xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
On Sat 03 Apr 2021 at 10:00:53 -0700, Charlie Gibbs wrote: [...] > I realize that this has turned into a review of the > scanner, but I've gotten so far into it that I might > as well see it through to the end. For now, connection > to a computer is merely something it would be nice to > have, rather than a necessity. The important part is > that I can use it to get my work done, one way or another. IMHO, you are heading off on a tangent. In your first mail you said at the start of it: > I just got a Brother ADS-2700W sheet-fed scanner and am trying > to access it from xsane. Then later on: > But I'd really like to let xsane manage the process. If you have changed your mind about xsane I can go back to slumbering. OTOH, if that is still your objective, the information asked for may be useful. I'll repeat the request: > It would be useful to know the output of > avahi-browse -rt _uscan._tcp > and > which Debian version is in use. > avahi-browse is in the avahi-utils package. Add 'scanimage -L' to the request. -- Brian.
Re: xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
On 2021-04-03 1:00 p.m., Charlie Gibbs wrote: On 2021-04-02 10:56 a.m., Charlie Gibbs wrote: the error message. I forget the exact wording, but it was pretty specific about the USB device being full, as opposed to some sort of internal memory overflow. Charlie, It is also a possibility that your USB thumb drive _doesn't_ have the capacity that it says it does. There are a lot of "fake" USB thumb drives that have far less capacity than advertised. Would you be able to try an external hard drive connected via a USB adapter? -- Regards, John Boxall
Re: xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
On 2021-04-02 10:56 a.m., Charlie Gibbs wrote: Emboldened by this, I went into the advanced options and turned on "Continuous scan", then dropped in the first part of a 300-page manual. Once the sheets were scanned, the scanner asked me whether I had more; I put in the next bundle of sheets, said yes, and away it went. All was well until partway through the last set of pages - on about page 280 the scanner halted with an error message saying it had run out of space. A sheet was half-fed, the PDF file was incomplete and therefore corrupt, and a second file was created which contained garbage left over from a previously deleted file. That's not graceful - the least it could have done was closed off the file cleanly. The 2GB thumb drive was only 3% full. (Maybe the limit is internal to the scanner.) For now I'll assume a limit of 200 pages per file, and use pdfunite to put the pieces together in the computer. I did some more experimenting with scanning this larger manual (about 360 pages, it turns out). I re-formatted that 2GB thumb drive and tried again; this time the scanner fed the last sheet before coming up with the error message. I forget the exact wording, but it was pretty specific about the USB device being full, as opposed to some sort of internal memory overflow. (Apparently the scanner has 512MB of memory.) Again I got a corrupt PDF file, plus a second file which contained data which should have only existed on my other computers - which makes me wonder about data security. I suspect that the scanner needs a _lot_ of extra space on the USB device to build the PDF file. I tried again with a freshly-formatted 16GB stick and the entire document scanned successfully. The finished PDF file is just short of 40 megabytes. Toward the end of the scanning, the scanner was pausing more and more frequently - it seems that things don't scale too well beyond about 300 pages. Still, it's turning out to be a nice little scanner for offline use. If anyone has managed to do SFTP from a Brother scanner, let me know how you did it. I realize that this has turned into a review of the scanner, but I've gotten so far into it that I might as well see it through to the end. For now, connection to a computer is merely something it would be nice to have, rather than a necessity. The important part is that I can use it to get my work done, one way or another. -- cgi...@surfnaked.ca (Charlie Gibbs)
Re: How I scan, was Re: xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
On Wed 31 Mar 2021 at 17:05:57 -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: [...] > The option I favor is that the scan is controlled by your own computer, > but you can trigger new scans by hitting buttons on the scanner > (i.e. the button-presses get sent to your computer who then decides > what action to take in response to them), so that you can comfortably > setup the scan parameters on your computer and then you can comfortably > scan the various documents without having to go back to your computer > between them. > > Sadly, I haven't figured out how to do that yet :-( There appear to be three aspects to solving this problem: 1. SANE detecting when a scanner button is pressed. 2. A button press being captured and known to the system. 3. Activation of a script. I can see 3 being solvable but how about 1 and 2? -- Brian.
Re: xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
On Fri 02 Apr 2021 at 15:27:48 +0500, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> On 02.04.2021 06:11, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> > On 2021-04-01 3:51 a.m., Brian Potkin wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Charlie,
> > >
> > > It would appear that you are not subscribed to debian-user. Have you
> > > seen all the replies to your post that await you there?
> >
> > Yes, I have. I just haven't had time to act on them. I did download
> > a driver from the Brother site but it had no effect. I suspect there's
> > something I'll have to do with xsane to get it to find the scanner.
> I've poked that driver a bit and it looks like only USB-connection is well
> supported, and there is no "Scan from your Computer (Linux)" section in the
> manual either. [1]
> There is a mention about "conf_ip" utility, but it looks like Brother began
> to implement "Direct Scan over Network" feature and never finished.
> You might try to follow the instructions from "How to Install" section [2]
> and setup IP address of the scanner on PC:
> $ sudo conf_ip 192.168.xxx.xxx
>
> All things considered, it might be indeed easier to setup FTP/SFTP or CIFS
> (Samba) server on your PC and create a scanner profile to scan directly into
> FTP directory or SMB share. [3]
> Even workflow looks more efficient that way:
> [Go to scanner] > [Place documents] > [Select profile] > [Start scanning] >
> [Retrieve documents] > [Go back to PC]
> In comparison to:
> [Go to scanner] > [Place documents] > [Go back to PC] > [Select profile] >
> [Start scanning] > [Go to scanner] > [Retrieve documents] > [Go back to PC]
>
>
> [1]
> https://support.brother.com/g/s/id/htmldoc/ads/cv_ads2200/uke/index.html?c=eu_ot&lang=en&prod=ads2700w_us_eu_as#GUID-323B4D6E-6CAF-4A35-B1AC-7F8F110EAE06_25
> [2]
> https://support.brother.com/g/b/downloadhowto.aspx?c=eu_ot&lang=en&prod=ads2700w_us_eu_as&os=128&dlid=dlf103479_000&flang=4&type3=566
> [3]
> https://support.brother.com/g/s/id/htmldoc/ads/cv_ads2200/uke/index.html?c=eu_ot&lang=en&prod=ads2700w_us_eu_as#GUID-286EDD29-0309-47AD-82F6-94D735A816D0_36
Although using the Brother driver appears the natural solution to the
issue, I would stronly suggest Eduardo M KALINOWSKI's advice to use
sane-airscan as the first avenue of approach.
* sane-airscan is a free, well-supported SANE backend.
* The manual for the ADS-2700W indicates it supports scanning from
an iPhone. This is only possible if the scanner supports the eSCL
protocol.
* sane-airscan also understands the eSCL protocol and should be able
to talk to the scanner.
* Downloading, installing and testing sane-airscan is a ten minute
task.
Note: Xsane communicates with a scanner via a SANE backend. If the
latter is suboptimal, Xsane can do nothing about it.
--
Brian.
Re: xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
On 02.04.2021 06:11, Charlie Gibbs wrote: On 2021-04-01 3:51 a.m., Brian Potkin wrote: Hello Charlie, It would appear that you are not subscribed to debian-user. Have you seen all the replies to your post that await you there? Yes, I have. I just haven't had time to act on them. I did download a driver from the Brother site but it had no effect. I suspect there's something I'll have to do with xsane to get it to find the scanner. I've poked that driver a bit and it looks like only USB-connection is well supported, and there is no "Scan from your Computer (Linux)" section in the manual either. [1] There is a mention about "conf_ip" utility, but it looks like Brother began to implement "Direct Scan over Network" feature and never finished. You might try to follow the instructions from "How to Install" section [2] and setup IP address of the scanner on PC: $ sudo conf_ip 192.168.xxx.xxx All things considered, it might be indeed easier to setup FTP/SFTP or CIFS (Samba) server on your PC and create a scanner profile to scan directly into FTP directory or SMB share. [3] Even workflow looks more efficient that way: [Go to scanner] > [Place documents] > [Select profile] > [Start scanning] > [Retrieve documents] > [Go back to PC] In comparison to: [Go to scanner] > [Place documents] > [Go back to PC] > [Select profile] > [Start scanning] > [Go to scanner] > [Retrieve documents] > [Go back to PC] [1] https://support.brother.com/g/s/id/htmldoc/ads/cv_ads2200/uke/index.html?c=eu_ot&lang=en&prod=ads2700w_us_eu_as#GUID-323B4D6E-6CAF-4A35-B1AC-7F8F110EAE06_25 [2] https://support.brother.com/g/b/downloadhowto.aspx?c=eu_ot&lang=en&prod=ads2700w_us_eu_as&os=128&dlid=dlf103479_000&flang=4&type3=566 [3] https://support.brother.com/g/s/id/htmldoc/ads/cv_ads2200/uke/index.html?c=eu_ot&lang=en&prod=ads2700w_us_eu_as#GUID-286EDD29-0309-47AD-82F6-94D735A816D0_36 -- With kindest regards, Alexander. ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org ⠈⠳⣄
Re: xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
On 2021-04-01 3:51 a.m., Brian Potkin wrote: Hello Charlie, It would appear that you are not subscribed to debian-user. Have you seen all the replies to your post that await you there? Yes, I have. I just haven't had time to act on them. I did download a driver from the Brother site but it had no effect. I suspect there's something I'll have to do with xsane to get it to find the scanner. (And then I'll have to go through it again with my wife's Macbook.) Meanwhile I tried setting it up to use sftp, but I haven't managed to get the authentication worked out yet. Oh well, worst case I can scan to a thumb drive. It does that well - and fast. Apologies for the intrusion. No worries. Thanks for the note. I'm hoping to find time this weekend to try out some of the things that have come through on the list. I'll post a summary of my results when I get them. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship. \ /| Apple is a cult. X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy. / \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Re: How I scan, was Re: xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
On 2021-03-31 22:05, Stefan Monnier wrote: Scanning the output to a server just seems plain obvious to me. What's the downside? It has its advantages, indeed. On the downsides: - the scanner usually has a very limited UI, making it difficult/inconvenient (if at all possible) to control and select the scanning options, compared to the comfort of a large screen. - scanning to a server implies allowing the scanner device write access to a server, which either implies the users authenticating themselves on the scanner itself (which is rather problematic and is compounded with the previous downside), or making the scan result land on an "anonymous" area where anyone can see what anyone else scans. - It usually means you're stuck with the functionality that the manufacturer decided to include in the scanner's software stack, because it's always proprietary or "walled" (it may contain Free Software for all I know, but I can't access nor modify the code). The option I favour is that the scan is controlled by your own computer, but you can trigger new scans by hitting buttons on the scanner (i.e. the button-presses get sent to your computer who then decides what action to take in response to them), so that you can comfortably setup the scan parameters on your computer and then you can comfortably scan the various documents without having to go back to your computer between them. Sounds like we have yet another use for a Raspberry Pi or similar small and cheap computer. Hook it up to a dumb USB scanner, the local network and a touch screen. Users can walk up, put their originals in the scanner, and use a much richer UI to chose their scanning options. The scans are emailed to them in their preferred file format using the email address they gave when they authenticated. I wonder if such an open source project already exists? -- David Pottage
Re: xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 19:24:36 -0700 Charlie Gibbs wrote: > I just got a Brother ADS-2700W sheet-fed scanner and am trying > to access it from xsane. I've done a lot of flatbed scanning, > first with an HP 3970, and lately with an Epson WF-2650 all-in-one, > but I have a lot of old manuals I want to scan and upload to > Bitsavers, and a sheet feeder will speed the process along. > > The Brother got a lot of good reviews so I decided to give it a try. > It offers many options, such as e-mail, [S]FTP, etc. over Ethernet, > wi-fi, and USB. But so far, I haven't been able to get xsane to > recognize it. My wife tried to get at it from her Macbook (which > accesses the Epson with no trouble), but had no luck either. > It's not a connectivity issue - the scanner happily connects > to my wi-fi and gets an IP address, and I can access it from > a web browser and get at all of its configuration screens. > But neither xsane nor my wife's Macbook can see it. > > The one way I did manage to get the scanner to work was to a > USB flash drive. It quickly sucked in a handful of sheets, > scanned both sides, and wrote them to a file on the stick. > If all else fails, I can work with it that way. But I'd > really like to let xsane manage the process. > > I'm beginning to wonder, though, whether fashions are changing. > Scanners nowadays seem to want to push data to a server, rather > than being commanded to scan by a computer. Is this really > happening? If so, whither (or should that be "wither") xsane? > > If anyone has gotten one of these newfangled machines to work > as a slave, rather than a master, please share your secrets. I recently had some trouble getting xsane to find my networked Brother HL-2280DW. I eventually got it to work by adding "brother4" to /etc/sane.d/dll.conf, following the directions from the ArchWiki: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/SANE/Scanner-specific_problems#Network_Scanning Celejar
Re: How I scan, was Re: xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
> Scanning the output to a server just seems plain obvious to me. > What's the downside? It has its advantages, indeed. On the downsides: - the scanner usually has a very limited UI, making it difficult/inconvenient (if at all possible) to control and select the scanning options, compared to the comfort of a large screen. - scanning to a server implies allowing the scanner device write access to a server, which either implies the users authenticating themselves on the scanner itself (which is rather problematic and is compounded with the previous downside), or making the scan result land on an "anonymous" area where anyone can see what anyone else scans. - It usually means you're stuck with the functionality that the manufacturer decided to include in the scanner's software stack, because it's always proprietary or "walled" (it may contain Free Software for all I know, but I can't access nor modify the code). The option I favor is that the scan is controlled by your own computer, but you can trigger new scans by hitting buttons on the scanner (i.e. the button-presses get sent to your computer who then decides what action to take in response to them), so that you can comfortably setup the scan parameters on your computer and then you can comfortably scan the various documents without having to go back to your computer between them. Sadly, I haven't figured out how to do that yet :-( Stefan
How I scan, was Re: xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
On Wed 31 Mar 2021 at 07:18:14 (-0400), Dan Ritter wrote: > Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > The one way I did manage to get the scanner to work was to a > > USB flash drive. It quickly sucked in a handful of sheets, > > scanned both sides, and wrote them to a file on the stick. > > If all else fails, I can work with it that way. But I'd > > really like to let xsane manage the process. That's the way I've always scanned anything. Earlier this century, the alternatives were (a) walking to a room with "the" public scanner, connected to a dedicated computer, and coordinating between holding a book on the platen and pressing buttons on the screen with a mouse, or (b) pushing a USB stick into a giant photocopier and pretending to copy it. Also (b) had the super document feeder (1/2 sided) and could scan up to A3, whereas (a) had a limp rubbery cover over the A4 platen glass. > > I'm beginning to wonder, though, whether fashions are changing. > > Scanners nowadays seem to want to push data to a server, rather > > than being commanded to scan by a computer. Is this really > > happening? If so, whither (or should that be "wither") xsane? > > In office environments, with shared resources, this is often > preferable. Having the scanner drop everything into a > samba-shared filesystem, for example... Well, yes. What's the point of controlling the scanner from your disk when you've got to *at least* visit the scanner to place the document in the feed hopper—why not just press a button to start it, while you're there? And obviously there are cases where the feeding has to be done manually. In fact, most of my scanning is like this. (Why are multiple-page documents being printed in the first place, so that people have to scan them back in?) Scanning the output to a server just seems plain obvious to me. What's the downside? Cheers, David.
Re: xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 8:24 AM, Hans wrote: > Am Mittwoch, 31. März 2021, 14:23:31 CEST schrieb Eduardo M KALINOWSKI: > > Hi, > > please check in /lib/udev/rules.d/*-libsane1.rules if there is an entry for > your scanner. In my case with a brother scanner I had to manually add it, as > the brother packages installation is missing this. Yeah. I had a similar problem getting xsane to recognize my Fujitsu ScanSnap 1300. I searched the web on model number and found a detailed howTo to make it work. (The manual add involved downloading a driver and editing a couple files.) -- Glenn English -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: ProtonMail wsBzBAEBCAAGBQJgZJdJACEJEJ/XhjGCrIwyFiEELKJzD0JScCVjQA2Xn9eG MYKsjDIo2gf5AT/5vT7kfoDAt6zzPaEaikqqj6xmJmYZyXdYCcF3Potz+I1O Kek9/PDrOIuW7xWlcUGy0HCtE7apxJC3GR93gg7UOUF9R37mnzxorsDi8pfc XusVf5IhQ2BinpcUlRWJjsL1XQupe69gbgLPx5MjLgwbklEDhhwc7vyZQM1d P8OED8TAg9hQF8CGvb0q/NGhKbvHiiPursCPSrq8eeaT2lTf6EsUDUtM9sdW 4+Qe493AFD1o6T0Ip3CgD9z9guz1IzDb+c507r84+u3ALoR2YL+iZuVvdhN0 pmCIunwif83oUFaTefuPz957Uj4ABAj6gQMPLG4dN9/6iNJn0VRaTA== =MMG5 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
Am Mittwoch, 31. März 2021, 14:23:31 CEST schrieb Eduardo M KALINOWSKI: Hi, please check in /lib/udev/rules.d/*-libsane1.rules if there is an entry for your scanner. In my case with a brother scanner I had to manually add it, as the brother packages installation is missing this. Good luck! Best Hans
Re: xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
On Wed 31 Mar 2021 at 09:23:31 -0300, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote: > On 30/03/2021 23:24, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > The one way I did manage to get the scanner to work was to a > > USB flash drive. It quickly sucked in a handful of sheets, > > scanned both sides, and wrote them to a file on the stick. > > If all else fails, I can work with it that way. But I'd > > really like to let xsane manage the process. > > > Which sane backend are you using? 'scanimage -L' will be informative. > Most new scanners support airscan, so try installing sane-airscan. Note that > for your scanner to be discovered you need avahi-daemon running. (Or maybe > you just need avahi-utils). sane-airscan is a possible solution, and a neat one too, It would be useful to know the output of avahi-browse -rt _uscan._tcp and which Debian version is in use. avahi-brows is in the avahi-utils package. -- Brian.
Re: xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
On 30/03/2021 23:24, Charlie Gibbs wrote: The one way I did manage to get the scanner to work was to a USB flash drive. It quickly sucked in a handful of sheets, scanned both sides, and wrote them to a file on the stick. If all else fails, I can work with it that way. But I'd really like to let xsane manage the process. Which sane backend are you using? Most new scanners support airscan, so try installing sane-airscan. Note that for your scanner to be discovered you need avahi-daemon running. (Or maybe you just need avahi-utils). Brother generally offers proprietary drivers, including a Sane backend. Did you install that? -- The most disagreeable thing that your worst enemy says to your face does not approach what your best friends say behind your back. -- Alfred De Musset Eduardo M KALINOWSKI edua...@kalinowski.com.br
Re: xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > I'm beginning to wonder, though, whether fashions are changing. > Scanners nowadays seem to want to push data to a server, rather > than being commanded to scan by a computer. Is this really > happening? If so, whither (or should that be "wither") xsane? In office environments, with shared resources, this is often preferable. Having the scanner drop everything into a samba-shared filesystem, for example... -dsr-
Re: xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
On 31.03.2021 07:24, Charlie Gibbs wrote: If anyone has gotten one of these newfangled machines to work as a slave, rather than a master, please share your secrets. aTdHvAaNnKcSe... Have you tried to install a sane backend driver coming as a .deb package from Brother website? https://support.brother.com/g/b/downloadtop.aspx?c=eu_ot&lang=en&prod=ads2700w_us_eu_as -- With kindest regards, Alexander. ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org ⠈⠳⣄
xsane can't see Brother ADS-2700W scanner
I just got a Brother ADS-2700W sheet-fed scanner and am trying to access it from xsane. I've done a lot of flatbed scanning, first with an HP 3970, and lately with an Epson WF-2650 all-in-one, but I have a lot of old manuals I want to scan and upload to Bitsavers, and a sheet feeder will speed the process along. The Brother got a lot of good reviews so I decided to give it a try. It offers many options, such as e-mail, [S]FTP, etc. over Ethernet, wi-fi, and USB. But so far, I haven't been able to get xsane to recognize it. My wife tried to get at it from her Macbook (which accesses the Epson with no trouble), but had no luck either. It's not a connectivity issue - the scanner happily connects to my wi-fi and gets an IP address, and I can access it from a web browser and get at all of its configuration screens. But neither xsane nor my wife's Macbook can see it. The one way I did manage to get the scanner to work was to a USB flash drive. It quickly sucked in a handful of sheets, scanned both sides, and wrote them to a file on the stick. If all else fails, I can work with it that way. But I'd really like to let xsane manage the process. I'm beginning to wonder, though, whether fashions are changing. Scanners nowadays seem to want to push data to a server, rather than being commanded to scan by a computer. Is this really happening? If so, whither (or should that be "wither") xsane? If anyone has gotten one of these newfangled machines to work as a slave, rather than a master, please share your secrets. aTdHvAaNnKcSe... -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | They don't understand Microsoft \ /| has stolen their car and parked X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | a taxi in their driveway. / \ if you read it the right way. |-- Mayayana
Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system
John Boxall wrote: > On 2021-03-07 12:47 p.m., Brad Rogers wrote: > > On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 17:34:59 + > > Brian wrote: > > > > Hello Brian, > > > > > put it there because I tend to forget changes I make in /etc! In this > > > > You're using a computer; you don't /need/ to remember those changes. > > Use the computer to do it for you. > > > > IOW, create a text file documenting those system additions you've made. > > Put a link to the file on your desktop. You'll never forget the document > > is there. Then, when you get curious enough to look at the file again, > > your memory will be jogged. > > > > Brad, I agree 100%..unfortunately, like my memory, I use selective > action.sometimes I create one and other times :-) If you install etckeeper, all the changes you make in /etc will be stored in a version control system. You can write comments to yourself with etckeeper commit "message about what I am doing" and you can list changes, revert them, and so forth. etckeeper hooks itself in to apt so that when you do an upgrade or an install, changes are added automatically. -dsr-
Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system
On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 13:11:26 -0500 John Boxall wrote: Hello John, >Brad, I agree 100%..unfortunately, like my memory, I use selective >action.sometimes I create one and other times :-) Sadly, Me too. :-( -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent" Life's short, don't make a mess of it No Time To Be 21 - The Adverts pgpFl81f6zB6E.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system
On Sun 07 Mar 2021 at 13:07:54 -0500, John Boxall wrote: > On 2021-03-07 12:45 p.m., Brian wrote: > > On Sun 07 Mar 2021 at 17:34:59 +, Brian wrote: > > > > John, > > > > I forgot to ask before - and forgot again! What device are you using? > > > > An Epson Perfection 2480 Photo. An oldie! What you have done is the only way to to export this scanner to the network. Hats off to the SANE project. > So, having read a little further, maybe I could have used the Epson offering > for a driver. I didn't because, well, I hadn't read further and because "it > just worked" under Bullseye. The epson2 free backend works for you. Stick with it. > I haven't rebuilt the specific system in question to Buster yet, but on my > test system with the scanner attached the bug report fix worked fine. That is good to know. Debian + SANE + you work well together and for the benefit of everyone.. -- Brian
Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system
On 2021-03-07 12:47 p.m., Brad Rogers wrote: On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 17:34:59 + Brian wrote: Hello Brian, put it there because I tend to forget changes I make in /etc! In this You're using a computer; you don't /need/ to remember those changes. Use the computer to do it for you. IOW, create a text file documenting those system additions you've made. Put a link to the file on your desktop. You'll never forget the document is there. Then, when you get curious enough to look at the file again, your memory will be jogged. Brad, I agree 100%..unfortunately, like my memory, I use selective action.sometimes I create one and other times :-) -- Regards, John Boxall
Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system
On 2021-03-07 12:45 p.m., Brian wrote: On Sun 07 Mar 2021 at 17:34:59 +, Brian wrote: John, I forgot to ask before - and forgot again! What device are you using? An Epson Perfection 2480 Photo. So, having read a little further, maybe I could have used the Epson offering for a driver. I didn't because, well, I hadn't read further and because "it just worked" under Bullseye. I haven't rebuilt the specific system in question to Buster yet, but on my test system with the scanner attached the bug report fix worked fine. -- Regards, John Boxall
Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system
On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 17:34:59 + Brian wrote: Hello Brian, >put it there because I tend to forget changes I make in /etc! In this You're using a computer; you don't /need/ to remember those changes. Use the computer to do it for you. IOW, create a text file documenting those system additions you've made. Put a link to the file on your desktop. You'll never forget the document is there. Then, when you get curious enough to look at the file again, your memory will be jogged. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent" We're going to hell anyway, let's travel first class Saturday Night - Kaiser Chiefs pgp3SXYKdg259.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system
On Sun 07 Mar 2021 at 17:34:59 +, Brian wrote: John, I forgot to ask before - and forgot again! What device are you using? -- Brian.
Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system
On Sun 07 Mar 2021 at 12:07:30 -0500, John Boxall wrote:
> On 2021-03-05 12:04 p.m., Brian wrote:
> >
> > Thank you, too. In the light of your issue, the Troubleshooting section
> > now has a link to the bug report. Hopefully, this will help users.
> >
>
> Brian, in the reference to the bug report, were you referring to the file:
>
> /etc/udev/rules.d/65-libsane.rules
>
> Contents:
> ENV{libsane_matched}=="yes", RUN+="/bin/setfacl -m g:scanner:rw
> $env{DEVNAME}"
I was.
> I suppose I could have changed /lib/udev/rules.d/60-libsane.rules to include
> that line. Not sure which is cleaner. If I upgrade the system from Buster to
> Bullseye the file I created would be redundant.
>
> Thoughts?
Putting a file in /etc/udev/rules.d/ is, I believe, cleaner as it is an
addition to what the system provides. However, you (and I) know that the
buster /lib/udev/rules.d/60-libsane.rules cures the issue. Actually, I
put it there because I tend to forget changes I make in /etc! In this
case, I cannot envisage any harm would be done, but what the wiki says
and what a user might do are two different things; the wiki has to be
accurate.
--
Brian.
Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system
On 2021-03-05 12:04 p.m., Brian wrote:
Thank you, too. In the light of your issue, the Troubleshooting section
now has a link to the bug report. Hopefully, this will help users.
Brian, in the reference to the bug report, were you referring to the file:
/etc/udev/rules.d/65-libsane.rules
Contents:
ENV{libsane_matched}=="yes", RUN+="/bin/setfacl -m g:scanner:rw
$env{DEVNAME}"
I suppose I could have changed /lib/udev/rules.d/60-libsane.rules to
include that line. Not sure which is cleaner. If I upgrade the system
from Buster to Bullseye the file I created would be redundant.
Thoughts?
--
Regards,
John Boxall
Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system
On Fri 05 Mar 2021 at 10:28:27 -0500, John Boxall wrote: > On 2021-03-05 6:05 a.m., Brian wrote: > > > > [1} > > > https://wiki.debian.org/SaneOverNetwork#Sharing_a_USB_Connected_Scanner:_the_Basics > > > > The note on Bug #918358 towards the end of > > > >https://wiki.debian.org/Scanner#perms > > > > could help with a solution. > > > > Once I looked at the bug report it most certainly did! Succinct and to the > point. > > Thank you! Thank you, too. In the light of your issue, the Troubleshooting section now has a link to the bug report. Hopefully, this will help users. -- Brian.
Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system
On 2021-03-05 6:05 a.m., Brian wrote: [1} https://wiki.debian.org/SaneOverNetwork#Sharing_a_USB_Connected_Scanner:_the_Basics The note on Bug #918358 towards the end of https://wiki.debian.org/Scanner#perms could help with a solution. Once I looked at the bug report it most certainly did! Succinct and to the point. Thank you! -- Regards, John Boxall
Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system
On 2021-03-05 4:50 a.m., David Pottage wrote: David, Thank you for the detailed instructions. I hope this solves your problem. I struggled with that exact issue a couple of months ago, and I know how frustrating it can be. It should. I will try it later today. The frustration was amplified because of my experience after using Bullseye and not needing to do any of it. -- Regards, John Boxall
Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system
On 2021-03-05 3:38 a.m., Darac Marjal wrote: First of all, you might need to give us some hint as to how it doesn't work? Agreed...bad form...no excuse. "scanimage -L" on the client did not show the scanner whereas on the server it did. I tried from both root and non-root users. "doesn't work" could range from "can't see the scanner at all" to "always produces a black image" to "inexplicably fills the room with rabid weasels". Based on this (from the reference) "The server will now be sharing the USB connected scanner with other designated machines on the network. " I would have expected to be able to see the scanner on the client in the scanimage output without having to do anything else. On the Bullseye instance the scanimage output did show the scanner with no additional steps. Thank you for the feedback. -- Regards, John Boxall
Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system
On Thu 04 Mar 2021 at 18:38:09 -0500, John Boxall wrote: > I have been trying for some time to setup a system that will share an > attached scanner over the network. I had hoped to use Buster as it is still > the stable instance of Debian. I have followed everything in [1] but I could > never get it to work. I then tried Bullseye and it worked right away. Today > I decided to install a clean NETINST image of each and repeat the "server" > steps as outlined at [1]. > > Even though the howto states that it covers Debian from versions 8 to 11, I > could not get it to work on Buster (10). The process failed on Buster, > again, even though scanimage on the system saw the USB scanner (Epson > Perfection 2480 Photo). I then installed Bullseye. The exact same process > and the very same saned.conf file worked immediately. > > The client was the same in both cases (Buster). > > Is there a tweak that I am missing? Has there been a change that isn't in > Buster but has made it to Bullseye? Any recommendations on debug steps would > be appreciated? > > > [1} > https://wiki.debian.org/SaneOverNetwork#Sharing_a_USB_Connected_Scanner:_the_Basics The note on Bug #918358 towards the end of https://wiki.debian.org/Scanner#perms could help with a solution. -- Brian.
Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system
On 2021-03-04 23:38, John Boxall wrote:
I have been trying for some time to setup a system that will share an
attached scanner over the network. I had hoped to use Buster as it is
still the stable instance of Debian. I have followed everything in [1]
but I could never get it to work. I then tried Bullseye and it worked
right away. Today I decided to install a clean NETINST image of each
and repeat the "server" steps as outlined at [1].
Even though the howto states that it covers Debian from versions 8 to
11, I could not get it to work on Buster (10). The process failed on
Buster, again, even though scanimage on the system saw the USB scanner
(Epson Perfection 2480 Photo). I then installed Bullseye. The exact
same process and the very same saned.conf file worked immediately.
The client was the same in both cases (Buster).
Is there a tweak that I am missing? Has there been a change that isn't
in Buster but has made it to Bullseye? Any recommendations on debug
steps would be appreciated?
I suspect the tweak you are missing is the permissions on the scanner
device so that the saned daemon can access it.
I have a network shared scanner on my Debian buster system (With an
Ubuntu client), and had trouble getting it to work.
Firstly, make sure can you access the scanner locally as root, and can
scan an image via the command line.
Then you need to set the ACL permissions on your scanner so that the
username 'scanner' that the saned daemon uses can access the device in
order to share it over the network. The Debian docs [2] for a scanner
have the necessary commands to identify your scanner on the USB bus, and
set the ACL on it.
For my scanner, the command I used was:
setfacl -m g:scanner:rw- /dev/bus/usb/003/002
Your scanner is probably connected to a different USB socket, so for you
the command will be different.
Then restart the saned daemon, and test connectivity from your client
machine.
If that works then you need to make the change permanent (otherwise it
will be lost when you reboot). For that you will need to add a custom
udev rule so that the kernel will recognise the device as a scanner
during boot up device enumeration or when you connect it. The notes on
how to do this came from the Arch Linux wiki. [3]
From the sane-find-scanner output, make a note of the Device id & vendor
id for your scanner, and then prepare a new udev rule file:
/etc/udev/rules.d/49-sane-missing-scanner.rules
Mine contains the identification for my scanner (HP ScanJet 3300c),
Yours will be different:
ATTRS{idVendor}=="03f0", ATTRS{idProduct}=="0205", MODE="0664",
GROUP="scanner", ENV{libsane_matched}="yes"
I hope this solves your problem. I struggled with that exact issue a
couple of months ago, and I know how frustrating it can be.
[2] https://wiki.debian.org/Scanner
[3] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/SANE#Permission_problem
--
David Pottage
Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system
On 04/03/2021 23:38, John Boxall wrote: > I have been trying for some time to setup a system that will share an > attached scanner over the network. I had hoped to use Buster as it is > still the stable instance of Debian. I have followed everything in [1] > but I could never get it to work. I then tried Bullseye and it worked > right away. Today I decided to install a clean NETINST image of each > and repeat the "server" steps as outlined at [1]. > > Even though the howto states that it covers Debian from versions 8 to > 11, I could not get it to work on Buster (10). The process failed on > Buster, again, even though scanimage on the system saw the USB scanner > (Epson Perfection 2480 Photo). I then installed Bullseye. The exact > same process and the very same saned.conf file worked immediately. > > The client was the same in both cases (Buster). > > Is there a tweak that I am missing? Has there been a change that isn't > in Buster but has made it to Bullseye? Any recommendations on debug > steps would be appreciated? First of all, you might need to give us some hint as to how it doesn't work? For example, what's the output of "scanimage -L" on the client system? If you run something like "xsane", what happens? "doesn't work" could range from "can't see the scanner at all" to "always produces a black image" to "inexplicably fills the room with rabid weasels". > > > [1} > https://wiki.debian.org/SaneOverNetwork#Sharing_a_USB_Connected_Scanner:_the_Basics > OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Sharing a scanner from a Buster system
I have been trying for some time to setup a system that will share an attached scanner over the network. I had hoped to use Buster as it is still the stable instance of Debian. I have followed everything in [1] but I could never get it to work. I then tried Bullseye and it worked right away. Today I decided to install a clean NETINST image of each and repeat the "server" steps as outlined at [1]. Even though the howto states that it covers Debian from versions 8 to 11, I could not get it to work on Buster (10). The process failed on Buster, again, even though scanimage on the system saw the USB scanner (Epson Perfection 2480 Photo). I then installed Bullseye. The exact same process and the very same saned.conf file worked immediately. The client was the same in both cases (Buster). Is there a tweak that I am missing? Has there been a change that isn't in Buster but has made it to Bullseye? Any recommendations on debug steps would be appreciated? [1} https://wiki.debian.org/SaneOverNetwork#Sharing_a_USB_Connected_Scanner:_the_Basics -- Regards, John Boxall
Re: SANE default scanner
George Shuklin (12020-08-07): > > scanimage -d "hpaio:/net/deskjet_3050a_j611_series?ip=10.0.1.155" > > xsane "hpaio:/net/deskjet_3050a_j611_series?ip=10.0.1.155" > > > > Where do I write this URL so that tools find it without having to tell > > them each time? > > > > Thanks. > > > I've just yesterday got a partial success by just adding this > into /etc/sane.d/saned.conf > > tcp 192.168.9.114 Thank you. But hpaio and saned are two different protocols, and apparently SANE lacks a cross-protocol configuration system. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: SANE default scanner
On 27/07/2020 12:58, Nicolas George wrote: Hi. This may be an obvious thing, but I cannot find the answer. I can scan with: scanimage -d "hpaio:/net/deskjet_3050a_j611_series?ip=10.0.1.155" xsane "hpaio:/net/deskjet_3050a_j611_series?ip=10.0.1.155" Where do I write this URL so that tools find it without having to tell them each time? Thanks. I've just yesterday got a partial success by just adding this into /etc/sane.d/saned.conf tcp 192.168.9.114 After that scanimage just works. (that was our office scanner). I was able to scan from normal position but wasn't able to use feeder.
Re: SANE default scanner
On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 07:28:21PM +0100, Brian wrote: > On Wed 29 Jul 2020 at 12:07:08 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > [...] can read C. > > Reviewing a patch for a non-extisting bug? That's above and beyond the > call of duty :). Always glad to please ;-P Perhaps I should temper my offer. By "reading C" I wasn't including things like this [1]... or that [2]. Cheers [1] https://www.ioccc.org/2019/dogon/prog.c [2] https://www.ioccc.org/2018/bellard/prog.c -- t signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: SANE default scanner
On Wed 29 Jul 2020 at 12:07:08 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 11:11:22AM +0200, Nicolas George wrote: > > > If the patch is to be rejected, or just ignored, then my time would be > > better invested in an external work-around, it would be less effort than > > forking, and more convenient. > > I'd just ask them. I.e. explicit is better than implicit. > > If you need a second pair of eyes to look over your patch, I'm ready. I > can read C. Reviewing a patch for a non-extisting bug? That's above and beyond the call of duty :). -- Brian.
Re: SANE default scanner
On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 11:11:22AM +0200, Nicolas George wrote: > Stefan Monnier (12020-07-28): > > The fact that you sometimes can, seems a clear indication that the > > underlying design still makes it possible [...] > "Significant" is a subjective threshold. Probing is less reliable than > configuration: relying on probing first is a mistake. Call it design or > not if you will. i.e. "explicit is better than implicit" > It completely depends on the mindset of the project, I am waiting to get > a feel of it. Some projects have a patch welcome attitude, some do not. > More importantly, some project have the attitude "I do not need this, > but if you think you do, and your patch is clean and does not make the > rest of the code more complex, then ok", while others have the attitude > "I do not need this, therefore nobody does" and would reject the patch. Quite long-winded way to say "would they accept my patch?" ;-) > If the patch is to be rejected, or just ignored, then my time would be > better invested in an external work-around, it would be less effort than > forking, and more convenient. I'd just ask them. I.e. explicit is better than implicit. If you need a second pair of eyes to look over your patch, I'm ready. I can read C. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: SANE default scanner
Stefan Monnier (12020-07-28): > The fact that you sometimes can, seems a clear indication that the > underlying design still makes it possible: you just need a bit of code > somewhere in SANE so you can specify this URL in a more central place > than on the command line. IOW, a trivial new feature. > You're free to do so, but usually "design mistake" refers to a problem > whose consequences can only be addressed properly by a redesign, which > implies a significant rework of the code. "Significant" is a subjective threshold. Probing is less reliable than configuration: relying on probing first is a mistake. Call it design or not if you will. > I don't see why: first, AFAICT it is still fully functional without > CUPS, Not for GUI applications that do not let set an arbitrary URL. > Maybe if you write a patch and submit it along with your > bug-report/feature-request there's more chance it will? It completely depends on the mindset of the project, I am waiting to get a feel of it. Some projects have a patch welcome attitude, some do not. More importantly, some project have the attitude "I do not need this, but if you think you do, and your patch is clean and does not make the rest of the code more complex, then ok", while others have the attitude "I do not need this, therefore nobody does" and would reject the patch. If the patch is to be rejected, or just ignored, then my time would be better invested in an external work-around, it would be less effort than forking, and more convenient. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: SANE default scanner
On Mon, 27 Jul, 2020 at 15:38:57 +0200, Nicolas George wrote: > John Boxall (12020-07-27): > > I was having the same problem with the same model mfp. I had to go into the > > HPLIP Toolbox app and setup the printer. Once I did that xsane and simple > > scan could find the scanner. > > Thanks for the suggestion. > > I was hoping to avoid installing the whole GUI crap from HP. After all, > the scanner works, my problem is only a UI problem. > hplip has a CLI mode. Run 'hp-setup -i'.
Re: SANE default scanner
On Tue 28 Jul 2020 at 09:56:20 -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > And the fact that hpaio relies on CUPS is inexcusable. > > I don't see why: first, AFAICT it is still fully functional without > CUPS, and the fact that it tries to make use of CUPS's config > information in order to overcome specifically the problem you're in is > not dangerous. It's kind of hackish but I can't see any situation where > it would harm any(think|one), so I'm not sure why you'd find > it inexcusable. There are two ideas expressed here: 1. ... first, AFAICT it is still fully functional without CUPS ... That's quite correct and has been clearly demonstrated to be the case. https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/07/msg01200.html Any idea that libsane-hpaio relies on CUPS is without any basis. 2. ... the fact that it tries to make use of CUPS's config information in order to overcome specifically the problem you're in is not dangerous. libsane-hpaio does not use or attempt use any aspect of CUPS' config. It has nothing to overcome. If we were to explore what the HPLIP hp-setup and hp-makeurl utilities do when CUPS is on the system, we could have a different conversation. But that has nothing to do with libsane-hpaio. > > There is no doubt it can be done. I just doubt it will. > > Maybe if you write a patch and submit it along with your > bug-report/feature-request there's more chance it will? > And if you can't do it yourself, why not pay someone to do it for you? Dream on. The submitted bogus bug reports are where we end. Nicolas George will hopefully eventually cotton on. > Also, maybe if you stop accusing people of incompetence or gross > negligence (which is what "inexcusable" and "design mistake" evokes for > me), they'll be more accommodating? You are asking a leopard to change its spots. -- brian.
Re: SANE default scanner
>> >> The problem is with scanner that are >> I'm not sure where you found assignment of blame in what I wrote. > "The problem is" is an assignment of technical blame. I was just pointing out in which circumstances the problem appears. No blame was meant and when I reread it I don't see blame being assigned either. >> Apparently not 100% so since it works if you provide the URI explicitly. > Most applications do not allow to specify an arbitrary scanner URL. The fact that you sometimes can, seems a clear indication that the underlying design still makes it possible: you just need a bit of code somewhere in SANE so you can specify this URL in a more central place than on the command line. IOW, a trivial new feature. > The fact that this option did not exist first and before probing is what > I call a design mistake. You're free to do so, but usually "design mistake" refers to a problem whose consequences can only be addressed properly by a redesign, which implies a significant rework of the code. > And the fact that hpaio relies on CUPS is inexcusable. I don't see why: first, AFAICT it is still fully functional without CUPS, and the fact that it tries to make use of CUPS's config information in order to overcome specifically the problem you're in is not dangerous. It's kind of hackish but I can't see any situation where it would harm any(think|one), so I'm not sure why you'd find it inexcusable. > There is no doubt it can be done. I just doubt it will. Maybe if you write a patch and submit it along with your bug-report/feature-request there's more chance it will? And if you can't do it yourself, why not pay someone to do it for you? Also, maybe if you stop accusing people of incompetence or gross negligence (which is what "inexcusable" and "design mistake" evokes for me), they'll be more accommodating? Stefan
Re: SANE default scanner
Stefan Monnier (12020-07-27): > >> The problem is with scanner that are > I'm not sure where you found assignment of blame in what I wrote. "The problem is" is an assignment of technical blame. > Apparently not 100% so since it works if you provide the URI explicitly. Most applications do not allow to specify an arbitrary scanner URL. > I can't see any reason why your request can't be satisfied by a fairly > simple change to the code (e.g. to read extra URIs from a local > configuration file in the client; better would be to be able to read > this info from something like the DNS), with no need for any kind of > redesign. So it seems like a simple missing feature. > I haven't looked enough at the code to be sure this can be done easily, > but if it can then it shows it's not a design problem. Just yet another > missing feature. The fact that this option did not exist first and before probing is what I call a design mistake. And the fact that hpaio relies on CUPS is inexcusable. There is no doubt it can be done. I just doubt it will. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: SANE default scanner
On Mon 27 Jul 2020 at 19:39:25 +0200, Nicolas George wrote: > Nicolas George (12020-07-27): > > Well, in between explaining why all the answers I got do not match the > > question, I RTFS, and it seems indeed it is not possible with SANE. What > > stupid design. > > > > As for the hpaio backend, it relies on CUPS to find networked printers, > > but CUPS will not be always running. What stupid design. > > These are now: > > https://gitlab.com/sane-project/frontends/-/issues/18 > https://bugs.launchpad.net/hplip/+bug/1889109 > > I predict that SANE will blame hpaio and hpaio will not care that people > do not want to run CUPS needlessly. The assertion is: libsane-hpaio relies on CUPS to detect networked all-in-one scanner-printers. That means that if CUPS is not running, networked devices are usable by specifying the URL, but they will not be detected. We may test this assertion as follows: 1. Install Debian with the base system only. 2. apt install libsane avahi-daemon. 3. brian@t5730sid:~$ scanimage -L No scanners were identified. If you were expecting something different, check that the scanner is plugged in, turned on and detected by the sane-find-scanner tool (if appropriate). Please read the documentation which came with this software (README, FAQ, manpages). brian@t5730sid:~$ 4. brian@t5730sid:~$ dpkg -l | grep cups brian@t5730sid:~$ 5. apt install libsane-hpaio --no-install-recommends 6. brian@t5730sid:~$ dpkg -l | grep cups ii libcups2:i3862.2.10-6+deb10u1 brian@t5730sid:~$ 7. brian@t5730sid:~$ scanimage -L device `hpaio:/net/envy_4500_series?ip=192.168.7.235&queue=false' is a Hewlett-Packard envy_4500_series all-in-one brian@t5730sid:~$ Contending that libsane-hpaio relies on CUPS to detect scanners appears to be based on a misunderdstanding of the code in hpaio.c. Most people would take CUPS to mean 'apt install cups' and, as we see, cups-daemon is not running. Game, set and match. -- Brian.
Re: SANE default scanner
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 11:49:59PM +0200, Nicolas George wrote: [...] > This is a sadly classic pattern in Libre software: "not my problem, it's > the other project doing it wrong". ...and of all the rest of humanity, too. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: SANE default scanner
Nicolas George [2020-07-27 23:49:59] wrote: > Stefan Monnier (12020-07-27): >> Indeed. And given SANE's design, there shouldn't be much need for it: >> it assumes that either the scanner is local (via a hardware-specific >> driver, hpaio being one of them) or it's remotely accessed over the SANE >> protocol, in which case it uses the DNS-SD protocol to find it. >> >> The problem is with scanner that are remote but using a "local driver" >> (local to the client rather than local to the scanner). > > This is a sadly classic pattern in Libre software: "not my problem, it's > the other project doing it wrong". I'm not sure where you found assignment of blame in what I wrote. > - The only way to have SANE-using applications see the scanner is that > hpaio detects it. Apparently not 100% so since it works if you provide the URI explicitly. > Both these points are design mistakes. I can't see any reason why your request can't be satisfied by a fairly simple change to the code (e.g. to read extra URIs from a local configuration file in the client; better would be to be able to read this info from something like the DNS), with no need for any kind of redesign. So it seems like a simple missing feature. I haven't looked enough at the code to be sure this can be done easily, but if it can then it shows it's not a design problem. Just yet another missing feature. Stefan
Re: SANE default scanner
Stefan Monnier (12020-07-27): > Indeed. And given SANE's design, there shouldn't be much need for it: > it assumes that either the scanner is local (via a hardware-specific > driver, hpaio being one of them) or it's remotely accessed over the SANE > protocol, in which case it uses the DNS-SD protocol to find it. > > The problem is with scanner that are remote but using a "local driver" > (local to the client rather than local to the scanner). This is a sadly classic pattern in Libre software: "not my problem, it's the other project doing it wrong". Sorry guys, you're BOTH doing it wrong: hpaio, you should not rely on a print server to detect scanners, even if you're made by a company that first came to this business through printers. SANE, since you accept third-party back-ends, you should assume some will get it wrong and have workarounds ready. > I suggest you open a feature request on the SANE's issue tracker. Already did. And to hplip too. > Who knows, maybe this can even be solved already by somehow tweaking the > DNS server to advertize your hpaio device? No, it can't, that's pretty obvious looking at the source code: - The only way to have SANE-using applications see the scanner is that hpaio detects it. - The only way to have hpaio detect the scanner is to have CUPS running, the corresponding printer configured and hpaio allowed to connect to it. Both these points are design mistakes. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: SANE default scanner
>> It's definitely possible with SANE. But apparently not with `hpaio`. > I insist: it is not possible with SANE to specify a list of extra > scanners. Indeed. And given SANE's design, there shouldn't be much need for it: it assumes that either the scanner is local (via a hardware-specific driver, hpaio being one of them) or it's remotely accessed over the SANE protocol, in which case it uses the DNS-SD protocol to find it. The problem is with scanner that are remote but using a "local driver" (local to the client rather than local to the scanner). I suggest you open a feature request on the SANE's issue tracker. Who knows, maybe this can even be solved already by somehow tweaking the DNS server to advertize your hpaio device? Stefan
Re: SANE default scanner
On Mon 27 Jul 2020 at 15:09:52 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > At high risk of hyjacking the thread, ... You have driven a bulldozer through it. Please go away, think about what you want to say and devise a new post to express your particular issue. And don't do it again. You should know better and set a good example. -- Brian.
Re: SANE default scanner
On Monday 27 July 2020 14:32:11 Brian wrote: > On Mon 27 Jul 2020 at 16:52:19 +0200, Nicolas George wrote: > > Georgi Naplatanov (12020-07-27): > > > Did you try to add scanners to /etc/sane.d/net.conf > > > > > > there is another howto > > > > > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/sane > > > > I did, and as expected it does not work, because > > > > "hpaio:/net/deskjet_3050a_j611_series?ip=10.0.1.155" > > > > looks nothing like the provided examples: > > > > 192.168.0.15 > > > > ::1 > > > > localhost > > scan-server.office.lan > > > > net.conf is for scanner shared with SANE's protocol. Notice the > > "hpaio:" fake URL protocol. > > You have fundamental misunderstanding about the purpose of net.conf. > As the wiki says: > > Note that the net backend is not for accessing arbitrary > scanners over a network. It's intended use is for the server > (which has a SANE-supported scanner) to be able to export that > scanner to clients on the network via a single SANE-specific, > manufacturer-agnostic protocol. At high risk of hyjacking the thread, I have been following along, hoping to be able to find my aio BIG brother scanner over the net, say from an rpi4 running buster in the garage. This aio has both cat5 from a local switch and a usb cable from this machine plugged into it and the aio has a local net address of ###.###.71.21 assigned and is pingable from anyplace on my local network. But the pi can only find it via the usb cable. [dll] sane_get_devices: found 1 devices device `net:##.##.71.3:brother4:bus4;dev2' is a Brother MFC-J6920DW USB scanner Why can't it be found at 71.21? The .3 is this machine. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Re: SANE default scanner
On Mon 27 Jul 2020 at 16:52:19 +0200, Nicolas George wrote: > Georgi Naplatanov (12020-07-27): > > Did you try to add scanners to /etc/sane.d/net.conf > > > > there is another howto > > > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/sane > > I did, and as expected it does not work, because > > "hpaio:/net/deskjet_3050a_j611_series?ip=10.0.1.155" > > looks nothing like the provided examples: > > 192.168.0.15 > ::1 > localhost > scan-server.office.lan > > net.conf is for scanner shared with SANE's protocol. Notice the "hpaio:" > fake URL protocol. You have fundamental misunderstanding about the purpose of net.conf. As the wiki says: Note that the net backend is not for accessing arbitrary scanners over a network. It's intended use is for the server (which has a SANE-supported scanner) to be able to export that scanner to clients on the network via a single SANE-specific, manufacturer-agnostic protocol. -- Brian.
Re: SANE default scanner
On Mon 27 Jul 2020 at 19:12:10 +0200, Nicolas George wrote: > Brian (12020-07-27): > > Ok, libsane-hpaio requires libcups.so.2. That's nowhere near requiring > > CUPS, in particular cups-daemon. The printing system is not involved > > with scanning. > > This is the last time I grace you with a reply. As I have told you twice I don't usually triumph so quickly in a discussion. :) > now, unlike you, I have read the source code and I know what I am > talking about. Here are the excerpts: You are quite right - I have not read any source code; I'm illiterate! However, I do have four scanners available over the network so must be doing something right. -- Brian.
Re: SANE default scanner
Nicolas George: > Siard (12020-07-27): > > It looks simple to me, or am I missing something? > > Does it add the scanner in Gimp's scanner menu? Ah, I guess I see what I was missing.
Re: SANE default scanner
Nicolas George (12020-07-27): > Well, in between explaining why all the answers I got do not match the > question, I RTFS, and it seems indeed it is not possible with SANE. What > stupid design. > > As for the hpaio backend, it relies on CUPS to find networked printers, > but CUPS will not be always running. What stupid design. These are now: https://gitlab.com/sane-project/frontends/-/issues/18 https://bugs.launchpad.net/hplip/+bug/1889109 I predict that SANE will blame hpaio and hpaio will not care that people do not want to run CUPS needlessly. Extra reference for some people in this discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%44%75%6e%6e%69%6e%67%E2%80%93%4b%72%75%67%65%72%5f%65%66%66%65%63%74 Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: SANE default scanner
Siard (12020-07-27): > It looks simple to me, or am I missing something? Does it add the scanner in Gimp's scanner menu? Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: SANE default scanner
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 11:58:44 +0200, Nicolas George wrote: > This may be an obvious thing, but I cannot find the answer. > > I can scan with: > > scanimage -d "hpaio:/net/deskjet_3050a_j611_series?ip=10.0.1.155" > xsane "hpaio:/net/deskjet_3050a_j611_series?ip=10.0.1.155" > > Where do I write this URL so that tools find it without having to tell > them each time? It looks simple to me, or am I missing something? Create /usr/local/bin/scanimage with these contents: #! /bin/sh /usr/bin/scanimage -d "hpaio:/net/deskjet_3050a_j611_series?ip=10.0.1.155" Then, $ cd /usr/local/bin $ chmod +x scanimage >From then on, run this command to scan: $ scanimage Because /usr/local/bin is before /usr/bin in $PATH, /usr/local/bin/scanimage takes precedence over /usr/bin/scanimage.
Re: SANE default scanner
On Mon 27 Jul 2020 at 12:39:11 -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > >> > Well, in between explaining why all the answers I got do not match the > >> > question, I RTFS, and it seems indeed it is not possible with SANE. > >> It's definitely possible with SANE. But apparently not with `hpaio`. > > libsane-hpaio is a backend that conforms to the SANE standard. > > On one end, yes. On the other end it talks the HPAIO "standard". > > I was talking about the network protocol. Apparently his scanner is not > connected to a `saned` daemon (that would talk the SANE protocol) but > talks an HPAIO-specific protocol instead. Nicolas George appears to have ruled out using saned on a server. There isn't a protocol specific to libsane-hpaio, not unless you are thinking of DNS-SD/mDNS, which are standard protocols. > Discovery is hence not performed by SANE but by the `libsane-hpaio` > backend itself. Ok; I'll go with that. > IOW he wants/needs to use `libsane-hpaio` on the client rather than on > the server. Indeed. We have now briefly discussed the only two techniques possible to achieve Nicolas George's objective. -- Brian.
Re: SANE default scanner
Brian (12020-07-27):
> Ok, libsane-hpaio requires libcups.so.2. That's nowhere near requiring
> CUPS, in particular cups-daemon. The printing system is not involved
> with scanning.
This is the last time I grace you with a reply. As I have told you twice
now, unlike you, I have read the source code and I know what I am
talking about. Here are the excerpts:
/* Look for Network Scan devices if localonly flag if FALSE. */
if (!localOnly)
{
/* Look for all-in-one scan devices for which print queue created */
cnt = GetCupsPrinters(&cups_printer);
for (i=0; i
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Re: SANE default scanner
On Mon 27 Jul 2020 at 18:39:45 +0200, Nicolas George wrote: > Brian (12020-07-27): > > libsane-hpaio needs CUPS to deal with scanners? Imagination is a great > > asset. Sometimes! > > If you do not believe me, just RTFS or use ldd and nm to check. Ok, libsane-hpaio requires libcups.so.2. That's nowhere near requiring CUPS, in particular cups-daemon. The printing system is not involved with scanning. -- Brian
Re: SANE default scanner
Brian (12020-07-27): > libsane-hpaio needs CUPS to deal with scanners? Imagination is a great > asset. Sometimes! If you do not believe me, just RTFS or use ldd and nm to check. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: SANE default scanner
>> > Well, in between explaining why all the answers I got do not match the >> > question, I RTFS, and it seems indeed it is not possible with SANE. >> It's definitely possible with SANE. But apparently not with `hpaio`. > libsane-hpaio is a backend that conforms to the SANE standard. On one end, yes. On the other end it talks the HPAIO "standard". I was talking about the network protocol. Apparently his scanner is not connected to a `saned` daemon (that would talk the SANE protocol) but talks an HPAIO-specific protocol instead. Discovery is hence not performed by SANE but by the `libsane-hpaio` backend itself. IOW he wants/needs to use `libsane-hpaio` on the client rather than on the server. Stefan
Re: SANE default scanner
Stefan Monnier (12020-07-27): > It's definitely possible with SANE. But apparently not with `hpaio`. I insist: it is not possible with SANE to specify a list of extra scanners. And since SANE lies between applications and back-ends, it is the correct place to implement it. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: SANE default scanner
On Mon 27 Jul 2020 at 12:05:15 -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > > Well, in between explaining why all the answers I got do not match the > > question, I RTFS, and it seems indeed it is not possible with SANE. > > It's definitely possible with SANE. But apparently not with `hpaio`. libsane-hpaio is a backend that conforms to the SANE standard. In what way is it different from, say, libsane-pixma? > > What stupid design. > > Yeah, I wish they'd just used SANE instead of inventing their own wheel. > > > As for the hpaio backend, it relies on CUPS to find networked printers, > > but CUPS will not be always running. What stupid design. > > At least they do use CUPS instead of reinventing yet another wheel. libsane-hpaio needs CUPS to deal with scanners? Imagination is a great asset. Sometimes! -- Brian.
Re: SANE default scanner
On Mon 27 Jul 2020 at 17:34:52 +0200, Nicolas George wrote: > Brian (12020-07-27): > > Scanning with xsane or simple-scan only works by specifying a URI? You > > don't think this is an issue, in spite of its not being the experience > > of most users? > > Well, I am pretty sure I know my situation better than you. >From xsane(1) xsane accesses image acquisition devices through the SANE (Scanner Access Now Easy) interface. The list of available devices depends on installed hardware and configuration. When invoked without an explicit devicename argument, xsane presents a dialog listing all known and available devices. To access an available device that is not known to the system, the devicename must be specified explicitly. The format of devicename is backend‐name:devicefile (eg: umax:/dev/sga). All my networked scanners show in xsane. I wonder why yours are unknown to the system? You are in the best situation to know. > But if you insist to know: hpaio detects networked scanners by querying > CUPS for networked printers. But I do not want CUPS running. This is not > a bug, just a completely idiotic design. It's good to have technical reasons for network scanner discovery, even when they do not match reality. -- Brian.
Re: SANE default scanner
>> That's the kind of reason why I don't like using printer's own network >> facilities and prefer to connect them over USB to a local GNU/Linux >> server which can then share them over CUPS&SANE. > There will be no computer close enough to the printer to do the job. Indeed, it's not always a convenient option. For me, the BananaPi homeserver was within reach of a USB cable, so it was a no-brainer. > And if you are suggesting I should buy a device, even an inexpensive Definitely not. The ecological impact of a new device dwarfs any of the potential benefits. >> It also has the side benefit that sleeping while connected via USB tends >> to consume significantly less power than sleeping while connected via the >> wifi network (can't remember what the numbers look like for ethernet). >> The difference can be sufficient to power a BananaPi ;-) > Have you considered turning the printer off and disconnecting it from > the power mains with an external switch? I could live with it, yes, but my wife expects the printer to "just work", so it has to pretend it's always on. > Well, in between explaining why all the answers I got do not match the > question, I RTFS, and it seems indeed it is not possible with SANE. It's definitely possible with SANE. But apparently not with `hpaio`. > What stupid design. Yeah, I wish they'd just used SANE instead of inventing their own wheel. > As for the hpaio backend, it relies on CUPS to find networked printers, > but CUPS will not be always running. What stupid design. At least they do use CUPS instead of reinventing yet another wheel. Stefan
Re: SANE default scanner
Brian (12020-07-27): > Scanning with xsane or simple-scan only works by specifying a URI? You > don't think this is an issue, in spite of its not being the experience > of most users? Well, I am pretty sure I know my situation better than you. But if you insist to know: hpaio detects networked scanners by querying CUPS for networked printers. But I do not want CUPS running. This is not a bug, just a completely idiotic design. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: SANE default scanner
On Mon 27 Jul 2020 at 16:15:30 +0200, Nicolas George wrote: > Brian (12020-07-27): > > > To summarize: I want to tell SANE URLs for network-connected scanners so > > > that they can be presented to the users in GUI dialogs. > > > > Not much chance of that happening if SANE cannot see the scanner. > > Well, if I write > > scanner "hpaio:/net/deskjet_3050a_j611_series?ip=10.0.1.155" > scanner "hpaio:/net/Photosmart_2570_series?ip=10.0.0.32" > > into some configuration file, then SANE does not need to see the > scanners: I just told where to find them. > > My question is: WHAT CONFIGURATION FILE? > > > SANE_DEBUG_DLL=5 scanimage -L > > There is no bug to debug, this is useless. Scanning with xsane or simple-scan only works by specifying a URI? You don't think this is an issue, in spite of its not being the experience of most users? -- Brian.
Re: SANE default scanner
Stefan Monnier (12020-07-27): > That's the kind of reason why I don't like using printer's own network > facilities and prefer to connect them over USB to a local GNU/Linux > server which can then share them over CUPS&SANE. There will be no computer close enough to the printer to do the job. And if you are suggesting I should buy a device, even an inexpensive one, for something that should be done with just a line in a config file, please think again. > It also has the side benefit that sleeping while connected via USB tends > to consume significantly less power than sleeping while connected via the > wifi network (can't remember what the numbers look like for ethernet). > The difference can be sufficient to power a BananaPi ;-) Have you considered turning the printer off and disconnecting it from the power mains with an external switch? Well, in between explaining why all the answers I got do not match the question, I RTFS, and it seems indeed it is not possible with SANE. What stupid design. As for the hpaio backend, it relies on CUPS to find networked printers, but CUPS will not be always running. What stupid design. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: SANE default scanner
> net.conf is for scanner shared with SANE's protocol. Notice the "hpaio:" > fake URL protocol. That's the kind of reason why I don't like using printer's own network facilities and prefer to connect them over USB to a local GNU/Linux server which can then share them over CUPS&SANE. It also has the side benefit that sleeping while connected via USB tends to consume significantly less power than sleeping while connected via the wifi network (can't remember what the numbers look like for ethernet). The difference can be sufficient to power a BananaPi ;-) Stefan
Re: SANE default scanner
Georgi Naplatanov (12020-07-27): > Did you try to add scanners to /etc/sane.d/net.conf > > there is another howto > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/sane I did, and as expected it does not work, because "hpaio:/net/deskjet_3050a_j611_series?ip=10.0.1.155" looks nothing like the provided examples: 192.168.0.15 ::1 localhost scan-server.office.lan net.conf is for scanner shared with SANE's protocol. Notice the "hpaio:" fake URL protocol. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: SANE default scanner
On 7/27/20 4:32 PM, Nicolas George wrote: > Georgi Naplatanov (12020-07-27): >> I'm not sure how you share the scanner(s) - with saned or if those are >> some kind of network scanners. > > I do not share the scanner, the scanner shares itself. > > To summarize: I want to tell SANE URLs for network-connected scanners so > that they can be presented to the users in GUI dialogs. > Did you try to add scanners to /etc/sane.d/net.conf there is another howto https://help.ubuntu.com/community/sane Kind regards Georgi
Re: SANE default scanner
Brian (12020-07-27): > > To summarize: I want to tell SANE URLs for network-connected scanners so > > that they can be presented to the users in GUI dialogs. > > Not much chance of that happening if SANE cannot see the scanner. Well, if I write scanner "hpaio:/net/deskjet_3050a_j611_series?ip=10.0.1.155" scanner "hpaio:/net/Photosmart_2570_series?ip=10.0.0.32" into some configuration file, then SANE does not need to see the scanners: I just told where to find them. My question is: WHAT CONFIGURATION FILE? > SANE_DEBUG_DLL=5 scanimage -L There is no bug to debug, this is useless. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
