Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
Hello Tony, Multipsk tends to show a slightly higher SNR with certain modes, but the values are still within 2db. I took a few screenshots that show Multipsk and PathSim working together connected via VAC (see attached). Thanks for 5 attachments. I think I had a bit of chance as I don't think to be as precise as 2 dB (perhaps +/- 2 to 5 dB according to the modes). If the AWGN source is enabled then Gaussian white noise can be added to the input signal in order to simulate various SNR ratios. A SNR of 0 means that the input signal rms level is equal to the noise rms level as measured through the 3KHz bandpass filter I agree with the definition (which is not always the standard, JT65 suppose a 2.5 or 2.7 KHz). 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Cc: F6CTE Lindecker Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk [5 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Tony included below] Patrick, It certainly seems difficult to precisely measure digital mode SNR so thank you for explaining that. I think the PC sound card method is accurate enough to show the relative difference between modes and more importantly, the digital mode path simulations and SNR tests seem to correlate well with on-air performance. In Multipsk when it is possible I evaluate the S/N by measuring the signal energy in its band and noise in the reminder of the band (or part of it). After normalization to a 3 KHz noise bandwidth, I display the result (which is not very precise). I'm not sure if I mentioned this before, but I noticed that Multipsk SNR figures compared well with PathSim when the two programs were linked together during my SNR testing (white noise only). Multipsk tends to show a slightly higher SNR with certain modes, but the values are still within 2db. I took a few screenshots that show Multipsk and PathSim working together connected via VAC (see attached). Moe Wheatley describes the SNR method used in the PathSim docs: If the AWGN source is enabled then Gaussian white noise can be added to the input signal in order to simulate various SNR ratios. An SNR of 0 means that the input signal rms level is equal to the noise rms level as measured through the 3KHz bandpass filter Thanks for all Patrick. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Patrick Lindecker f6...@free.fr To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 5:09 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Hello Tony, What software are you using to determine the SNR decode level? What i do is adding noise so as to reach a S/N=-15 dB. Then I see if it works (decode or not). According to the result, I will try -14 or -16 dB etc... In Multipsk when it is possible I evaluate the S/N by measuring the signal energy in its band and noise in the reminder of the band (or part of it). After normalization to a 3 KHz noise bandwidth, I display the result (which is not very precise). There are other methods (based on correlations and hypothesis) as with Olivia and JT65 but they are neither very precise. For example, you could evaluate the S/N according to the phase jitter in PSK mode (the more the phase moves randomly, the lower the S/N ratio is), but this would work only in good ionospheric conditions. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 12:44 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Patrick, I think you are right about the burst characteristics of the mode and the way the PathSim software handles this. Seems logical since our SNR tests have been consistent with other modes. I have an audio editor that has the capability of adding white noise, but it doesn't indicate the SNR once the mode audio is mixed. I mix signal and noise at digital level before the analogical transform and then I see at what level I can decode. What software are you using to determine the SNR decode level? Tony -K2MO Attachment(s) from Tony 5 of 5 Photo(s) SNR.jpgSNR_PSK31.jpgSNR_MFSK16.jpgSNR_RTTY.jpgSNR_CALLID.jpg
Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
Hello Tony, What software are you using to determine the SNR decode level? What i do is adding noise so as to reach a S/N=-15 dB. Then I see if it works (decode or not). According to the result, I will try -14 or -16 dB etc... In Multipsk when it is possible I evaluate the S/N by measuring the signal energy in its band and noise in the reminder of the band (or part of it). After normalization to a 3 KHz noise bandwidth, I display the result (which is not very precise). There are other methods (based on correlations and hypothesis) as with Olivia and JT65 but they are neither very precise. For example, you could evaluate the S/N according to the phase jitter in PSK mode (the more the phase moves randomly, the lower the S/N ratio is), but this would work only in good ionospheric conditions. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 12:44 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Patrick, I think you are right about the burst characteristics of the mode and the way the PathSim software handles this. Seems logical since our SNR tests have been consistent with other modes. I have an audio editor that has the capability of adding white noise, but it doesn't indicate the SNR once the mode audio is mixed. I mix signal and noise at digital level before the analogical transform and then I see at what level I can decode. What software are you using to determine the SNR decode level? Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk [5 Attachments]
Patrick, It certainly seems difficult to precisely measure digital mode SNR so thank you for explaining that. I think the PC sound card method is accurate enough to show the relative difference between modes and more importantly, the digital mode path simulations and SNR tests seem to correlate well with on-air performance. In Multipsk when it is possible I evaluate the S/N by measuring the signal energy in its band and noise in the reminder of the band (or part of it). After normalization to a 3 KHz noise bandwidth, I display the result (which is not very precise). I'm not sure if I mentioned this before, but I noticed that Multipsk SNR figures compared well with PathSim when the two programs were linked together during my SNR testing (white noise only). Multipsk tends to show a slightly higher SNR with certain modes, but the values are still within 2db. I took a few screenshots that show Multipsk and PathSim working together connected via VAC (see attached). Moe Wheatley describes the SNR method used in the PathSim docs: If the AWGN source is enabled then Gaussian white noise can be added to the input signal in order to simulate various SNR ratios. An SNR of 0 means that the input signal rms level is equal to the noise rms level as measured through the 3KHz bandpass filter Thanks for all Patrick. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Patrick Lindecker f6...@free.fr To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 5:09 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Hello Tony, What software are you using to determine the SNR decode level? What i do is adding noise so as to reach a S/N=-15 dB. Then I see if it works (decode or not). According to the result, I will try -14 or -16 dB etc... In Multipsk when it is possible I evaluate the S/N by measuring the signal energy in its band and noise in the reminder of the band (or part of it). After normalization to a 3 KHz noise bandwidth, I display the result (which is not very precise). There are other methods (based on correlations and hypothesis) as with Olivia and JT65 but they are neither very precise. For example, you could evaluate the S/N according to the phase jitter in PSK mode (the more the phase moves randomly, the lower the S/N ratio is), but this would work only in good ionospheric conditions. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 12:44 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Patrick, I think you are right about the burst characteristics of the mode and the way the PathSim software handles this. Seems logical since our SNR tests have been consistent with other modes. I have an audio editor that has the capability of adding white noise, but it doesn't indicate the SNR once the mode audio is mixed. I mix signal and noise at digital level before the analogical transform and then I see at what level I can decode. What software are you using to determine the SNR decode level? Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk [2 Attachments]
Patrick, Just checked the peak amplitude of the RSID / Call ID clips and they are both within 0.2db of each other. These are the audio files I used to determine the 100% throughput SNR for each mode using PathSim. I am sending you the files so you can test them at your leisure. The RSID (Mode ID) and the CALL ID are repeated 8 times on each clip. I repeated the test several times this evening and I still come up with the 6db difference between the two for 100% throughput. I should mention that I'm not using the Multipsk S/N indicator to measure the signal-to-noise; I'm using the SNR figures indicated by the path simulator. Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
Hello Tony, The S/N that you measure seems quite close to mine (-20 dB against -16 dB and -14 against -13 dB). In our measures, there is always a certain uncertainty because the noise is not really white after going through a sound card output and a sound card input. Moreover, in fact in all my tests, I accept about 2 % of errors because 0% error is impossible to reach (it can be approched but not reached). So there is certainly a small uncertainty about the 100% success. I think the 4 dB in RS ID of difference must due to the burst character of the RS ID as Path Sim introduces filters having a certain length, so... If it's ok with you, I'll send a few audio clips so you can test the RSID and Call ID at different SNR levels measured with PathSim. I'll include the SNR in the clip title. Thanks Tony, but I'm more confident on what I program. the Multipsk S/N indicator to measure the signal-to-noise The Call ID S/N is not precise at all. It can only give an idea of the S/N value. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 3:05 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Patrick, Hello Tony, What are the numbers that you get? In fact, from my measures, the first decodings appear at -19 dB in RS ID and -16 dB in Call ID (but respectively -16 and -13 dB for almost 100 % success). I get the following SNR figures for 100% decode: RS ID -20db Call ID -14db Figures are nearly the same for the Call ID, but the 4db discrepancy in the RSID seems odd. I believe this is the first time we've compared SNR figures for 100% throughput Patrick; our minimum SNR figures are usually identical. I think it must be a bit difficult to measure S/N for bursts. I mix signal and noise (just noise without paths delays...) at digital level before the analogical transform and then I see at what level I can decode. Sounds like an accurate way to test Patrick. Most of my digital mode testing is done with PathSim. The program gives the option of testing the signal-to-noise ratio using Gaussian white noise without any ionospheric path distortion. I'm always careful to make sure that the audio levels are the same for each mode before I run them through the simulator. If it's ok with you, I'll send a few audio clips so you can test the RSID and Call ID at different SNR levels measured with PathSim. I'll include the SNR in the clip title. Thanks Patrick, Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 2:09 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Patrick, Thanks for adding the messaging feature. Andy, K3UK, and I were able to copy Sholto's, RS messages some 3700km away on 20 meters. Sholto, K7TMG, was running 5 watts and a vertical antenna. We found the high sensitivity of the message mode useful as signals fell below the decode threshold of the chat modes we were using at the time. The RS ID is detectable at -16 dB but the Call ID only at about -13 dB (however still better than PSK31). Very sensitive, more than most sound card chat-modes. I'm not sure why Patrick, but my SNR tests indicate that the RSID used for mode detection has a 6db advantage over the CALL ID. I ran both modes through the path simulator 10 times each and established a minimum SNR when they decoded 10 out-of 10 times or 100%. I'll check all levels and try again. Thanks Patrick. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Patrick Lindecker f6...@free.fr To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Hello Tony, The Call ID that I just have slightly modified is based on a specific RS ID code (it was the most simple, but it is not a mode ID, just a borrowing) on which is implemented a more conventional frame (56 bits + CRC). The RS ID is detectable at -16 dB but the Call ID only at about -13 dB (however still better than PSK31). 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Steinar, I am testing the Message ID in Patrick's latest beta of the MULTIPSK (VERSION 4.16 of 27/10/2009) on 14.074. I haven't had the opportunity to use the message ID on-the-air, but I did test the mode between two PC's and it seems to work fine. I would assume the Reed Solomon messaging will be just as sensitive and robust as RS ID; should work well. Hope to see you on the air Steinar... Tony
Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
Patrick, I think you are right about the burst characteristics of the mode and the way the PathSim software handles this. Seems logical since our SNR tests have been consistent with other modes. I have an audio editor that has the capability of adding white noise, but it doesn't indicate the SNR once the mode audio is mixed. I mix signal and noise at digital level before the analogical transform and then I see at what level I can decode. What software are you using to determine the SNR decode level? Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
Hello Tony, What are the numbers that you get? In fact, from my measures, the first decodings appear at -19 dB in RS ID and -16 dB in Call ID (but respectively -16 and -13 dB for almost 100 % success). SNR tests I think it must be a bit difficult to measure S/N for bursts. What I do, on my side, in to mix signal and noise (just noise without paths delays...) at digital level before the analogical transform and then I see at what level I can decode. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 2:09 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Patrick, Thanks for adding the messaging feature. Andy, K3UK, and I were able to copy Sholto's, RS messages some 3700km away on 20 meters. Sholto, K7TMG, was running 5 watts and a vertical antenna. We found the high sensitivity of the message mode useful as signals fell below the decode threshold of the chat modes we were using at the time. The RS ID is detectable at -16 dB but the Call ID only at about -13 dB (however still better than PSK31). Very sensitive, more than most sound card chat-modes. I'm not sure why Patrick, but my SNR tests indicate that the RSID used for mode detection has a 6db advantage over the CALL ID. I ran both modes through the path simulator 10 times each and established a minimum SNR when they decoded 10 out-of 10 times or 100%. I'll check all levels and try again. Thanks Patrick. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Patrick Lindecker f6...@free.fr To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Hello Tony, The Call ID that I just have slightly modified is based on a specific RS ID code (it was the most simple, but it is not a mode ID, just a borrowing) on which is implemented a more conventional frame (56 bits + CRC). The RS ID is detectable at -16 dB but the Call ID only at about -13 dB (however still better than PSK31). 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Steinar, I am testing the Message ID in Patrick's latest beta of the MULTIPSK (VERSION 4.16 of 27/10/2009) on 14.074. I haven't had the opportunity to use the message ID on-the-air, but I did test the mode between two PC's and it seems to work fine. I would assume the Reed Solomon messaging will be just as sensitive and robust as RS ID; should work well. Hope to see you on the air Steinar... Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
Patrick, Hello Tony, What are the numbers that you get? In fact, from my measures, the first decodings appear at -19 dB in RS ID and -16 dB in Call ID (but respectively -16 and -13 dB for almost 100 % success). I get the following SNR figures for 100% decode: RS ID -20db Call ID -14db Figures are nearly the same for the Call ID, but the 4db discrepancy in the RSID seems odd. I believe this is the first time we've compared SNR figures for 100% throughput Patrick; our minimum SNR figures are usually identical. I think it must be a bit difficult to measure S/N for bursts. I mix signal and noise (just noise without paths delays...) at digital level before the analogical transform and then I see at what level I can decode. Sounds like an accurate way to test Patrick. Most of my digital mode testing is done with PathSim. The program gives the option of testing the signal-to-noise ratio using Gaussian white noise without any ionospheric path distortion. I'm always careful to make sure that the audio levels are the same for each mode before I run them through the simulator. If it's ok with you, I'll send a few audio clips so you can test the RSID and Call ID at different SNR levels measured with PathSim. I'll include the SNR in the clip title. Thanks Patrick, Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 2:09 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Patrick, Thanks for adding the messaging feature. Andy, K3UK, and I were able to copy Sholto's, RS messages some 3700km away on 20 meters. Sholto, K7TMG, was running 5 watts and a vertical antenna. We found the high sensitivity of the message mode useful as signals fell below the decode threshold of the chat modes we were using at the time. The RS ID is detectable at -16 dB but the Call ID only at about -13 dB (however still better than PSK31). Very sensitive, more than most sound card chat-modes. I'm not sure why Patrick, but my SNR tests indicate that the RSID used for mode detection has a 6db advantage over the CALL ID. I ran both modes through the path simulator 10 times each and established a minimum SNR when they decoded 10 out-of 10 times or 100%. I'll check all levels and try again. Thanks Patrick. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Patrick Lindecker f6...@free.fr To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Hello Tony, The Call ID that I just have slightly modified is based on a specific RS ID code (it was the most simple, but it is not a mode ID, just a borrowing) on which is implemented a more conventional frame (56 bits + CRC). The RS ID is detectable at -16 dB but the Call ID only at about -13 dB (however still better than PSK31). 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Steinar, I am testing the Message ID in Patrick's latest beta of the MULTIPSK (VERSION 4.16 of 27/10/2009) on 14.074. I haven't had the opportunity to use the message ID on-the-air, but I did test the mode between two PC's and it seems to work fine. I would assume the Reed Solomon messaging will be just as sensitive and robust as RS ID; should work well. Hope to see you on the air Steinar... Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
Hi all Anyone qrv on 20m ? I am testing the Message ID in Patrick's latest beta of the MULTIPSK (VERSION 4.16 of 27/10/2009) on 14.074. Hope to see you in the waterfall . 73 de LA5VNA Steinar
Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
Steinar, I am testing the Message ID in Patrick's latest beta of the MULTIPSK (VERSION 4.16 of 27/10/2009) on 14.074. I haven't had the opportunity to use the message ID on-the-air, but I did test the mode between two PC's and it seems to work fine. I would assume the Reed Solomon messaging will be just as sensitive and robust as RS ID; should work well. Hope to see you on the air Steinar... Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
Tony The file is very small (12kb) but it will take abut 60min to send it over to you. I think I will abort.. la5vna Steinar Tony wrote: Steinar, I am testing the Message ID in Patrick's latest beta of the MULTIPSK (VERSION 4.16 of 27/10/2009) on 14.074. I haven't had the opportunity to use the message ID on-the-air, but I did test the mode between two PC's and it seems to work fine. I would assume the Reed Solomon messaging will be just as sensitive and robust as RS ID; should work well. Hope to see you on the air Steinar... Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
Hello to all, For information about the subject (Message ID), here is a mail transmitted to the Multipsk Yahoo group. 73 Patrick *** Hello to all testers, There was a bug on the last test version, so I re-send the mail. Some modifications have been made to the last test version: RS ID, Call ID (Message ID) RS ID Due to the extension of the RS ID use, it is proposed a function which allows to select a group of modes for which the user wants a RS ID detection (function available by clicking on ID ). Message ID Creation of a Message ID which permits to send small messages of 9 characters maximum which will appear in the waterfall of the other Hams. As it works in background and as it is not related to any specific digital mode, it can be useful, for example, in case of difficulty of doing a QSO. Message IDs are not considered as true Call IDs and are not stored (they are only displayed). In Call ID, it has also been added the possibility to use space in free call signs. The last Multipsk test version is: http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_27_10_2009.ZIP Paste this adress in your Internet Explorer or equivalent. Download the file. Create a tempory folder (C:\TEST, for example), unzip the file in it and start C:\TEST\Multipsk.exe (the auxiliary files will be created automatically). Thanks for report. 73 Patrick Note about the initial Message ID in the ID window Initial Message ID (9 char. max): it is possible to send a message of 9 characters maximum (with the following set of characters (56) A..Z 0..9 space . ? = / + ! - , ; : % $ ( ) * ), in background. As it is not related to any specific mode, it can be useful, for example, in case of difficulty of doing a QSO (thanks to the editor over the Call ID button on the RX/TX screen). Message ID are not considered as true Call ID and are not stored. The main use is simply to send a short message in case in difficulty during a QSO (PSE PSK10, for example, to ask To switch to PSK10 or QRM +1K for There is QRM, I increase the dial frequency by 1 KHz or STIL HERE to say that I'm still here, even if communication seems impossible. It could be also possible to exchange information between Hams doing other QSO, or between a Ham not in QSO and Hams in QSO, for two reasons: - the Call ID is received and transmitted in background so it can be used at any time and in any mode, - the Call ID appears to everybody in the bandwidth. For example Hi mode? to say Hello, what is the mode that you use and it can be answered OL 32 1K for Olivia 32 carriers 1000 Hz. It will be efficient to use Q code and Ham abbreviations and to use punctuations to limit the number of characters: - ? question (a confirmation is required), - ! a strong demand is done by the Ham with who you are in QSO (an action is required), - or - for to increase the frequency, - or - for to increase the frequency, - = at the beginning without following space for PSE or Please - + at the end for I wait for an answer and why not net general smileys as :-) for Smile 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Steinar Aanesland saa...@broadpark.no To: multi...@yahoogroups.com; * Digitalradio digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 5:11 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Hi all Anyone qrv on 20m ? I am testing the Message ID in Patrick's latest beta of the MULTIPSK (VERSION 4.16 of 27/10/2009) on 14.074. Hope to see you in the waterfall . 73 de LA5VNA Steinar Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
I think I lost you Tony :( . No signal at all here. la5vna Steinar
Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
It is really nice to see how well multipsk works under weak conditions la5vna Steinar Steinar Aanesland wrote: Tony The file is very small (12kb) but it will take abut 60min to send it over to you. I think I will abort.. la5vna Steinar Tony wrote: Steinar, I am testing the Message ID in Patrick's latest beta of the MULTIPSK (VERSION 4.16 of 27/10/2009) on 14.074. I haven't had the opportunity to use the message ID on-the-air, but I did test the mode between two PC's and it seems to work fine. I would assume the Reed Solomon messaging will be just as sensitive and robust as RS ID; should work well. Hope to see you on the air Steinar... Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
Hi Patrick I tested Message ID with Tony -K2MO now . It works great! la5vna Steinar Patrick Lindecker wrote: Hello to all, For information about the subject (Message ID), here is a mail transmitted to the Multipsk Yahoo group. 73 Patrick *** Hello to all testers, There was a bug on the last test version, so I re-send the mail. Some modifications have been made to the last test version: RS ID, Call ID (Message ID) RS ID Due to the extension of the RS ID use, it is proposed a function which allows to select a group of modes for which the user wants a RS ID detection (function available by clicking on ID ). Message ID Creation of a Message ID which permits to send small messages of 9 characters maximum which will appear in the waterfall of the other Hams. As it works in background and as it is not related to any specific digital mode, it can be useful, for example, in case of difficulty of doing a QSO. Message IDs are not considered as true Call IDs and are not stored (they are only displayed). In Call ID, it has also been added the possibility to use space in free call signs. The last Multipsk test version is: http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_27_10_2009.ZIP Paste this adress in your Internet Explorer or equivalent. Download the file. Create a tempory folder (C:\TEST, for example), unzip the file in it and start C:\TEST\Multipsk.exe (the auxiliary files will be created automatically). Thanks for report. 73 Patrick Note about the initial Message ID in the ID window Initial Message ID (9 char. max): it is possible to send a message of 9 characters maximum (with the following set of characters (56) A..Z 0..9 space . ? = / + ! - , ; : % $ ( ) * ), in background. As it is not related to any specific mode, it can be useful, for example, in case of difficulty of doing a QSO (thanks to the editor over the Call ID button on the RX/TX screen). Message ID are not considered as true Call ID and are not stored. The main use is simply to send a short message in case in difficulty during a QSO (PSE PSK10, for example, to ask To switch to PSK10 or QRM +1K for There is QRM, I increase the dial frequency by 1 KHz or STIL HERE to say that I'm still here, even if communication seems impossible. It could be also possible to exchange information between Hams doing other QSO, or between a Ham not in QSO and Hams in QSO, for two reasons: - the Call ID is received and transmitted in background so it can be used at any time and in any mode, - the Call ID appears to everybody in the bandwidth. For example Hi mode? to say Hello, what is the mode that you use and it can be answered OL 32 1K for Olivia 32 carriers 1000 Hz. It will be efficient to use Q code and Ham abbreviations and to use punctuations to limit the number of characters: - ? question (a confirmation is required), - ! a strong demand is done by the Ham with who you are in QSO (an action is required), - or - for to increase the frequency, - or - for to increase the frequency, - = at the beginning without following space for PSE or Please - + at the end for I wait for an answer and why not net general smileys as :-) for Smile 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Steinar Aanesland saa...@broadpark.no To: multi...@yahoogroups.com; * Digitalradio digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 5:11 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Hi all Anyone qrv on 20m ? I am testing the Message ID in Patrick's latest beta of the MULTIPSK (VERSION 4.16 of 27/10/2009) on 14.074. Hope to see you in the waterfall . 73 de LA5VNA Steinar Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk [2 Attachments]
TonyThe file is very small (12kb) but it will take abut 60min to send it over to you. I think I will abort.. Understand Steinar - lost you in the noise. Managed to received 23% of the file. The RS messaging came through fine. See attached. First ALE-400 QSO with the U.S.? Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Steinar Aanesland saa...@broadpark.no To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Tony The file is very small (12kb) but it will take abut 60min to send it over to you. I think I will abort.. la5vna Steinar Tony wrote: Steinar, I am testing the Message ID in Patrick's latest beta of the MULTIPSK (VERSION 4.16 of 27/10/2009) on 14.074. I haven't had the opportunity to use the message ID on-the-air, but I did test the mode between two PC's and it seems to work fine. I would assume the Reed Solomon messaging will be just as sensitive and robust as RS ID; should work well. Hope to see you on the air Steinar... Tony -K2MO
AW: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
What qrg? _ Von: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von Steinar Aanesland Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. Oktober 2009 20:37 An: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Betreff: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Hi Patrick I tested Message ID with Tony -K2MO now . It works great! la5vna Steinar Patrick Lindecker wrote: Hello to all, For information about the subject (Message ID), here is a mail transmitted to the Multipsk Yahoo group. 73 Patrick *** Hello to all testers, There was a bug on the last test version, so I re-send the mail. Some modifications have been made to the last test version: RS ID, Call ID (Message ID) RS ID Due to the extension of the RS ID use, it is proposed a function which allows to select a group of modes for which the user wants a RS ID detection (function available by clicking on ID ). Message ID Creation of a Message ID which permits to send small messages of 9 characters maximum which will appear in the waterfall of the other Hams. As it works in background and as it is not related to any specific digital mode, it can be useful, for example, in case of difficulty of doing a QSO. Message IDs are not considered as true Call IDs and are not stored (they are only displayed). In Call ID, it has also been added the possibility to use space in free call signs. The last Multipsk test version is: http://f6cte. http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_27_10_2009.ZIP free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_27_10_2009.ZIP Paste this adress in your Internet Explorer or equivalent. Download the file. Create a tempory folder (C:\TEST, for example), unzip the file in it and start C:\TEST\Multipsk.exe (the auxiliary files will be created automatically). Thanks for report. 73 Patrick Note about the initial Message ID in the ID window Initial Message ID (9 char. max): it is possible to send a message of 9 characters maximum (with the following set of characters (56) A..Z 0..9 space . ? = / + ! - , ; : % $ ( ) * ), in background. As it is not related to any specific mode, it can be useful, for example, in case of difficulty of doing a QSO (thanks to the editor over the Call ID button on the RX/TX screen). Message ID are not considered as true Call ID and are not stored. The main use is simply to send a short message in case in difficulty during a QSO (PSE PSK10, for example, to ask To switch to PSK10 or QRM +1K for There is QRM, I increase the dial frequency by 1 KHz or STIL HERE to say that I'm still here, even if communication seems impossible. It could be also possible to exchange information between Hams doing other QSO, or between a Ham not in QSO and Hams in QSO, for two reasons: - the Call ID is received and transmitted in background so it can be used at any time and in any mode, - the Call ID appears to everybody in the bandwidth. For example Hi mode? to say Hello, what is the mode that you use and it can be answered OL 32 1K for Olivia 32 carriers 1000 Hz. It will be efficient to use Q code and Ham abbreviations and to use punctuations to limit the number of characters: - ? question (a confirmation is required), - ! a strong demand is done by the Ham with who you are in QSO (an action is required), - or - for to increase the frequency, - or - for to increase the frequency, - = at the beginning without following space for PSE or Please - + at the end for I wait for an answer and why not net general smileys as :-) for Smile 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Steinar Aanesland saa...@broadpark. mailto:saanes%40broadpark.no no To: multi...@yahoogroup mailto:multipsk%40yahoogroups.com s.com; * Digitalradio digitalradio@ mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 5:11 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Hi all Anyone qrv on 20m ? I am testing the Message ID in Patrick's latest beta of the MULTIPSK (VERSION 4.16 of 27/10/2009) on 14.074. Hope to see you in the waterfall . 73 de LA5VNA Steinar Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensw http://www.obriensweb.com/sked eb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
Yes, it is my first ALE-400 QSO with the U.S , and I hope it is not the last one. This is a great mode;) la5vna Steinar Tony wrote: TonyThe file is very small (12kb) but it will take abut 60min to send it over to you. I think I will abort.. Understand Steinar - lost you in the noise. Managed to received 23% of the file. The RS messaging came through fine. See attached. First ALE-400 QSO with the U.S.? Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Steinar Aanesland saa...@broadpark.no To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Tony The file is very small (12kb) but it will take abut 60min to send it over to you. I think I will abort.. la5vna Steinar Tony wrote: Steinar, I am testing the Message ID in Patrick's latest beta of the MULTIPSK (VERSION 4.16 of 27/10/2009) on 14.074. I haven't had the opportunity to use the message ID on-the-air, but I did test the mode between two PC's and it seems to work fine. I would assume the Reed Solomon messaging will be just as sensitive and robust as RS ID; should work well. Hope to see you on the air Steinar... Tony -K2MO
Re: AW: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
Hi Siegfried 14.074 but 20m seems to be dead now here up in the north :( la5vna Steinar Siegfried Jackstien wrote: What qrg?
AW: AW: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
Yep it´s dark outside so highbands are closed _ Von: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von Steinar Aanesland Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. Oktober 2009 20:51 An: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Betreff: Re: AW: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Hi Siegfried 14.074 but 20m seems to be dead now here up in the north :( la5vna Steinar Siegfried Jackstien wrote: What qrg?
Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
Hello Tony, The Call ID that I just have slightly modified is based on a specific RS ID code (it was the most simple, but it is not a mode ID, just a borrowing) on which is implemented a more conventional frame (56 bits + CRC). The RS ID is detectable at -16 dB but the Call ID only at about -13 dB (however still better than PSK31). 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Steinar, I am testing the Message ID in Patrick's latest beta of the MULTIPSK (VERSION 4.16 of 27/10/2009) on 14.074. I haven't had the opportunity to use the message ID on-the-air, but I did test the mode between two PC's and it seems to work fine. I would assume the Reed Solomon messaging will be just as sensitive and robust as RS ID; should work well. Hope to see you on the air Steinar... Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk
Patrick, Thanks for adding the messaging feature. Andy, K3UK, and I were able to copy Sholto's, RS messages some 3700km away on 20 meters. Sholto, K7TMG, was running 5 watts and a vertical antenna. We found the high sensitivity of the message mode useful as signals fell below the decode threshold of the chat modes we were using at the time. The RS ID is detectable at -16 dB but the Call ID only at about -13 dB (however still better than PSK31). Very sensitive, more than most sound card chat-modes. I'm not sure why Patrick, but my SNR tests indicate that the RSID used for mode detection has a 6db advantage over the CALL ID. I ran both modes through the path simulator 10 times each and established a minimum SNR when they decoded 10 out-of 10 times or 100%. I'll check all levels and try again. Thanks Patrick. Tony -K2MO - Original Message - From: Patrick Lindecker f6...@free.fr To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Hello Tony, The Call ID that I just have slightly modified is based on a specific RS ID code (it was the most simple, but it is not a mode ID, just a borrowing) on which is implemented a more conventional frame (56 bits + CRC). The RS ID is detectable at -16 dB but the Call ID only at about -13 dB (however still better than PSK31). 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Message ID in multipsk Steinar, I am testing the Message ID in Patrick's latest beta of the MULTIPSK (VERSION 4.16 of 27/10/2009) on 14.074. I haven't had the opportunity to use the message ID on-the-air, but I did test the mode between two PC's and it seems to work fine. I would assume the Reed Solomon messaging will be just as sensitive and robust as RS ID; should work well. Hope to see you on the air Steinar... Tony -K2MO
