[board-discuss] [FINAL DRAFT] Rules of Procedure for the TDF board
Hi *, attached is the final draft, that I hereby put in front of the board to vote on. No substantial changes from the last version, and thanks to Michael for improved verbiage. Cheers, -- Thorsten Behrens, Director, Deputy Chairman of the Board The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint THE DOCUMENT FOUNDATION - BOARD OF DIRECTORS * RULES OF PROCEDURE * Date: September 27th, 2012 Preambel In addition to §7, (5) of the statutes, the board hereby agrees on the following rules of procedure. Notwithstanding any regulations in the statutes, this document defines board processes, decision making, as well as sharing and delegation of board tasks. Processes = §1. Approval, modification, cancellation and publication of rules of procedure 1. These rules of procedure can, at any time, be modified or cancelled at the sole discretion of the board. 2. Decisions regarding the rules of procedure are made according to §9 of the statutes. Drafts of amended rules, or the intent to cancel them in entirety, need to be made available at least one week in advance. 3. The rules of procedure can enter into effect earliest after approval by the board according to 2., and after being published to the members. 4. The rules of procedure must not conflict with TDF statutes. In such cases, the conflicting parts are overridden by whatever is mandated by the statutes. Decision making and responsibilities §2. Basic principle - all members of the board of directors participate in all board matters by voting. As such, the principle of joint management is maintained. §3. Internal delegation of responsibilities Internally, the board has decided on the following split of responsibilities: * marketing (Charles Schulz) * certification (Italo Vignoli) * communication with media and public (Italo Vignoli) * asset management, trademarks and brands (Florian Effenberger) * legal compliance (imprint, privacy policy, TOS) (Florian Effenberger) * communication with authorities, deadlines and schedule (Florian Effenberger) * budget, bank accounts, capital stock (Florian Effenberger) * filing and archiving (Florian Effenberger) * LibreOffice releases (Thorsten Behrens) * accounting and annual balance reports (Thorsten Behrens) §4. Shared responsibility The board as a whole assumes responsibility for all decisions, also those made by individual board members in their capacities listed in §3. §5. Board decision making 1. For decisions affecting daily operations, and if the vote happens electronically via email, for values of less than € 500, or an equivalent contractual liability, not answering in the vote thread for longer than 2 business days (for reasons including absence and illness) counts towards approval. 2. Absent directors not able to follow daily opertations may notify the board of that fact, and, provided the remaining board agrees, may negotiate voting proceedures different from 1. for their vote, or name representing deputies in order of preference. Delegation == §6. Delegation of tasks 1. By simple majority, the board can delegate tasks 2. Those delegated tasks may have a budget assigned. Potential orders, limits, or bonds associated with that task are to be adhered to. 3. Delegated tasks have mandatory reporting and disclosure requirements towards the board, including disposition of funds, and achievement of objectives. Reporting needs to happen at least once a year. 4. Members of the board, given prior permission of the entire board, and still with full responsibility for their respective areas (§ 3), can delegate tasks assigned to them to third parties. The responsible director assumes control and supervision of any contracted third party. §7. Committees 1. It is the sole discretion of the board to setup committees, tasked to prepare decisions for the board. Committees can only advise, the ultimate decision authority and responsibility lies with the board. Officers §8. Systems and Administrative Officer 1. The board will contract, or alternatively hire if more economical/practical, resources for professional, secure, and timely maintenance of TDF's central IT infrastructure. The board acknowledges that TDF's virtual presence and web pages are one of its most valuable assets, and thus are worthy of focused investment to complement the sysadmin community's great work. Validity and Entry into Force = 1. Severability clause - should one or more items of these rules of procedure turn out to be invalid, in collision with the statutes, German law, or otherwise not applicable, all
[board-discuss] Rules of Procedure for the TDF board
Hi *, the board tonight approved the Rules of Procedure without further amendments. I attach the final version. Regards, -- Thorsten Behrens, Director, Deputy Chairman of the Board The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint THE DOCUMENT FOUNDATION - BOARD OF DIRECTORS * RULES OF PROCEDURE * Date: September 27th, 2012 Preambel In addition to §7, (5) of the statutes, the board hereby agrees on the following rules of procedure. Notwithstanding any regulations in the statutes, this document defines board processes, decision making, as well as sharing and delegation of board tasks. Processes = §1. Approval, modification, cancellation and publication of rules of procedure 1. These rules of procedure can, at any time, be modified or cancelled at the sole discretion of the board. 2. Decisions regarding the rules of procedure are made according to §9 of the statutes. Drafts of amended rules, or the intent to cancel them in entirety, need to be made available at least one week in advance. 3. The rules of procedure can enter into effect earliest after approval by the board according to 2., and after being published to the members. 4. The rules of procedure must not conflict with TDF statutes. In such cases, the conflicting parts are overridden by whatever is mandated by the statutes. Decision making and responsibilities §2. Basic principle - all members of the board of directors participate in all board matters by voting. As such, the principle of joint management is maintained. §3. Internal delegation of responsibilities Internally, the board has decided on the following split of responsibilities: * marketing (Charles Schulz) * certification (Italo Vignoli) * communication with media and public (Italo Vignoli) * asset management, trademarks and brands (Florian Effenberger) * legal compliance (imprint, privacy policy, TOS) (Florian Effenberger) * communication with authorities, deadlines and schedule (Florian Effenberger) * budget, bank accounts, capital stock (Florian Effenberger) * filing and archiving (Florian Effenberger) * LibreOffice releases (Thorsten Behrens) * accounting and annual balance reports (Thorsten Behrens) §4. Shared responsibility The board as a whole assumes responsibility for all decisions, also those made by individual board members in their capacities listed in §3. §5. Board decision making 1. For decisions affecting daily operations, and if the vote happens electronically via email, for values of less than € 500, or an equivalent contractual liability, not answering in the vote thread for longer than 2 business days (for reasons including absence and illness) counts towards approval. 2. Absent directors not able to follow daily opertations may notify the board of that fact, and, provided the remaining board agrees, may negotiate voting proceedures different from 1. for their vote, or name representing deputies in order of preference. Delegation == §6. Delegation of tasks 1. By simple majority, the board can delegate tasks 2. Those delegated tasks may have a budget assigned. Potential orders, limits, or bonds associated with that task are to be adhered to. 3. Delegated tasks have mandatory reporting and disclosure requirements towards the board, including disposition of funds, and achievement of objectives. Reporting needs to happen at least once a year. 4. Members of the board, given prior permission of the entire board, and still with full responsibility for their respective areas (§ 3), can delegate tasks assigned to them to third parties. The responsible director assumes control and supervision of any contracted third party. §7. Committees 1. It is the sole discretion of the board to setup committees, tasked to prepare decisions for the board. Committees can only advise, the ultimate decision authority and responsibility lies with the board. Officers §8. Systems and Administrative Officer 1. The board will contract, or alternatively hire if more economical/practical, resources for professional, secure, and timely maintenance of TDF's central IT infrastructure. The board acknowledges that TDF's virtual presence and web pages are one of its most valuable assets, and thus are worthy of focused investment to complement the sysadmin community's great work. Validity and Entry into Force = 1. Severability clause - should one or more items of these rules of procedure turn out to be invalid, in collision with the statutes, German law, or otherwise not applicable, all other items will remain in effect. 2. These rules of procedure
[tdf-discuss] Fonction mode
Bonjour,On m’a envoyé un fichier Excel comme exemple pour apprendre à traiter des listes de réponses en trouvant les taux de réponses les plus fréquents, c’est-à-dire, dans mon cas :Savoir pour chaque groupe observé quel est le nombre de bonnes réponses le plus fréquent, ou plutôt quels sont les nombres de bonnes réponses les plus fréquents (voir fichier joint) ; le but étant de déterminer à la fois le niveau de difficulté des épreuves et le niveau de performance du groupe.Lorsque j’ouvre le fichier avec LibreOffice Calc, les cellules de calcul comportent le message d’erreur suivant :=_xlfn.IFERROR(MODE(SI(NB.SI(B$37:B37;B$6:B$36)=0;B$6:B$36));) en barre de formule et #MACRO ? dans la celluleJ’ai essayé d’utiliser la formule proposée sur le site de LibreOffice, mais cela m’a renvoyé une erreur 512.Pouvez-vous m’aider à résoudre ce problème, sachant que je suis particulièrement ignare en mathématiques… !Je vous joins les deux fichiers concernés :1. Le fichier xls reçu suite à ma demande d’aide,2.Le fichier ods obtenu par enregistrement sous LibreOffice du fichier xls de départ.Je vous remercie d’avance de votre aide !Bien cordialement,Jacques Modèle_calcul_occurrences_les_plus_fréquentes.xls http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4009495/Mod%C3%A8le_calcul_occurrences_les_plus_fr%C3%A9quentes.xls Modèle_calcul_occurrences_les_plus_fréquentes.ods http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4009495/Mod%C3%A8le_calcul_occurrences_les_plus_fr%C3%A9quentes.ods -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Fonction-mode-tp4009495.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: LibreOffice Portable
Christian you mentioned that the portable version is hosted on the TDF mirror. It can also be found on www.portableapps.com On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Pedro pedl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Christian Christian Lohmaier (klammer) wrote Only insofar that Portable versions are hosten on our mirror infrastructure and are advertized/available on our download pages. They are not produced by TDF itself. Thanks. That is what I thought. Christian Lohmaier (klammer) wrote Shouldn't there be an equivalent Portable version for each stable release? Portable releases always come a little after the original release, but if there is one, it is added... My question is related to a problem I run into today while opening an odt created in 3.5.x and that won't open in 3.6.2.1 There is no Portable version of 3.5.6 only of 3.5.5 (released in July 12th) However version 3.6.1 is already available (released in Sept 11th) This leads me to think that the guys creating the Portable version are possibly going to ignore version 3.5.7 (which is currently in rc1) in the same way that they never released version 3.4.6 Of course any user can update the Portable install manually but it is not a simple trivial task. I think that for testing and because of regressions it would be good that the Portable version would match all stable versions of each branch. Better yet, it would be good if the last version of each branch was kept available at the LO download site. Just a suggestion for TDF to consider. Regards, Pedro -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice-Portable-tp4009436p4009474.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: LibreOffice Portable
Pedro wrote: Better yet, it would be good if the last version of each branch was kept available at the LO download site. All old versions are available under http://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/ - we just don't advertize that widely, they have less features, more bugs, known security issues etc. ;) Cheers, -- Thorsten Behrens, Director, Deputy Chairman of the Board The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: LibreOffice Portable
Pedro schrieb: I think that for testing and because of regressions it would be good that the Portable version would match all stable versions of each branch. Hi, I think so, too, no idea why that version is missing. You find a good overview concerning existing Portable versions here: ftp://ftp.uni-muenster.de/pub/software/LibreOffice/portable/ (please also see https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Mirrors) As far as I know the are all those versions are multilingual. Best regards Rainer -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: LibreOffice Portable
Hi Thorsten, all Thorsten Behrens wrote All old versions are available under http://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/ - we just don't advertize that widely, they have less features, more bugs, known security issues etc. ;) Actually I always use the mirror mentioned by Rainer, which has all the versions. (Thanks Rainer, I already knew about that hidden treasure ;) ) ftp://ftp.uni-muenster.de/pub/software/LibreOffice/portable/ The old archive you pointed to contains a Portable folder for each version regardless of if it exists or not... The Muenster mirror only has folders for versions that do exist, which is more logic and more efficient. In this particular case I wanted to go back to branch 3.5.x because of a regression and it makes all sense that Portable version keeps up with a branch that is still under development. I agree that older versions have less features. But they don't necessarily have more bugs and they have less regressions! I think that it is bad enough that the official download page barely mentions that a more stable version is available, actively updated and maintained. I really don't understand TDF's logic... Regards, Pedro -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice-Portable-tp4009436p4009555.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice Forums Categories Proposal
I do not totally agree Christian details inline... That said, your summary was easier for me to read than the list... On 09/27/2012 08:11 AM, Christian Lohmaier wrote: Where's the difference between General Discussion Lounge (or whatever name will be chosen) - it is not clear to me. I assume that it is an off topic forum where you can ask anything about anything (well, mostly anyway). Just guessing. ### I don't think there is a need for an installation configuration category, let alone individual forums for each OS. Installation is best covered using Tutorials/The existing installation documentation. so I'd remove the Installation category forums and instead cover it in Tutorials and in a catchall/general questions section in libreoffice apps category. After all installing is not black magic... I partially disagree. One might argue for a specialty forum in general related to a specific operating system, but I don't think it need be specific to installation. I also don't think that installation questions should be handled in tutorials, it is certainly not the first place I would jump to if I could not install some software. One nice thing about a separate installation section, is that it will probably primarily attract the new users that have difficulty in this area. It will likely not see heavy use, which is probably good because it means that a new problem will be close to the top where a new person is most likely to see it and maybe have their question answered immediately. ### In LibreOffice Applications, I wouldn't split them out as much, but rather shrink them to: * Writer Math * Calc * Impress Draw * Base * Catch-all/General (also the place to ask installation/configuration problems if not covered by the tutorials) - might even consider to put Base into this forum as well. I disagree with this as well, but I will admit that Draw and Impress share much in common. Math people may be working in Write, and I expect much more traffic in Write than in Math, but again, categorizing in this way is generally useful, even if there are only a few posts a month in this category. The real purpose is that the Math questions are generally very specific, and it makes it much easier later to browse what has been discussed in that area. If you can have math be a sub-category of Write, however, that might be a good thing. I certainly would not put Base into General, because the questions are so specific. For installation related questions, people can be asked in a sticky to prefix their topics with [win] [lin] [mac] (, [sol], [and] [ios],...) New people in general are not likely to do this. If they are asked as part of the registration process, however, that might help in this regard. ### The SiteFeedback Website contributor forums seem to overlap I assume that site feedback is for a general user that wants to say something like this forum is horrible because (or similar). I assume that the later is for people actively developing the LO web site (ie, not the forum). ### And I assume that the Admin-Category will be hidden for Anonymous regular Users, right? :-) One can hope! So I'd rather start with fewer forums, and if real-life usage proves me wrong, create the additional, specialized forums. It is certainly easier to add new categories than it is to remove them. But especially Math and Draw don't get so many questions that are specifc. Base might deserve its own section because the nature of the questions is redically different, and most of the time require database knowledge, but probably not from a volume perspective. Then again, I don't read/monitor the english user's list, so it might be different from e.g. the german project. So in short: * remove Installation Category (cover it in tutorial and app-questions) * combine Apps forums (and create a general forum for non-app specific question like for installation) * explain difference between General Discussion and Lounge * check overlap betwen Site Feedback and Website ciao Christian -- Andrew Pitonyak My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice Forums Categories Proposal
As Christian suggested I think the main sections of the forum to start out with are sections for writer, calc, etc. What do you guys think would those be good things to initially start with? On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak and...@pitonyak.org wrote: I do not totally agree Christian details inline... That said, your summary was easier for me to read than the list... On 09/27/2012 08:11 AM, Christian Lohmaier wrote: Where's the difference between General Discussion Lounge (or whatever name will be chosen) - it is not clear to me. I assume that it is an off topic forum where you can ask anything about anything (well, mostly anyway). Just guessing. ### I don't think there is a need for an installation configuration category, let alone individual forums for each OS. Installation is best covered using Tutorials/The existing installation documentation. so I'd remove the Installation category forums and instead cover it in Tutorials and in a catchall/general questions section in libreoffice apps category. After all installing is not black magic... I partially disagree. One might argue for a specialty forum in general related to a specific operating system, but I don't think it need be specific to installation. I also don't think that installation questions should be handled in tutorials, it is certainly not the first place I would jump to if I could not install some software. One nice thing about a separate installation section, is that it will probably primarily attract the new users that have difficulty in this area. It will likely not see heavy use, which is probably good because it means that a new problem will be close to the top where a new person is most likely to see it and maybe have their question answered immediately. ### In LibreOffice Applications, I wouldn't split them out as much, but rather shrink them to: * Writer Math * Calc * Impress Draw * Base * Catch-all/General (also the place to ask installation/configuration problems if not covered by the tutorials) - might even consider to put Base into this forum as well. I disagree with this as well, but I will admit that Draw and Impress share much in common. Math people may be working in Write, and I expect much more traffic in Write than in Math, but again, categorizing in this way is generally useful, even if there are only a few posts a month in this category. The real purpose is that the Math questions are generally very specific, and it makes it much easier later to browse what has been discussed in that area. If you can have math be a sub-category of Write, however, that might be a good thing. I certainly would not put Base into General, because the questions are so specific. For installation related questions, people can be asked in a sticky to prefix their topics with [win] [lin] [mac] (, [sol], [and] [ios],...) New people in general are not likely to do this. If they are asked as part of the registration process, however, that might help in this regard. ### The SiteFeedback Website contributor forums seem to overlap I assume that site feedback is for a general user that wants to say something like this forum is horrible because (or similar). I assume that the later is for people actively developing the LO web site (ie, not the forum). ### And I assume that the Admin-Category will be hidden for Anonymous regular Users, right? :-) One can hope! So I'd rather start with fewer forums, and if real-life usage proves me wrong, create the additional, specialized forums. It is certainly easier to add new categories than it is to remove them. But especially Math and Draw don't get so many questions that are specifc. Base might deserve its own section because the nature of the questions is redically different, and most of the time require database knowledge, but probably not from a volume perspective. Then again, I don't read/monitor the english user's list, so it might be different from e.g. the german project. So in short: * remove Installation Category (cover it in tutorial and app-questions) * combine Apps forums (and create a general forum for non-app specific question like for installation) * explain difference between General Discussion and Lounge * check overlap betwen Site Feedback and Website ciao Christian -- Andrew Pitonyak My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/**AndrewMacro.odthttp://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+help@**documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-** unsubscribe/http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/** Netiquette http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice Forums Categories Proposal
Hi all, The idea to start with fewer boards is very good. In the future, if needed you can create new categories and forums and move there specific messages. Waiting for opinions and then modify the proposal. Best regards, Lucian --- Lucian Oprea Telefon: 0745 592602 Pe 27.09.2012 16:24, Jonathan Aquilina a scris: As Christian suggested I think the main sections of the forum to start out with are sections for writer, calc, etc. What do you guys think would those be good things to initially start with? On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak and...@pitonyak.org wrote: I do not totally agree Christian details inline... That said, your summary was easier for me to read than the list... On 09/27/2012 08:11 AM, Christian Lohmaier wrote: Where's the difference between General Discussion Lounge (or whatever name will be chosen) - it is not clear to me. I assume that it is an off topic forum where you can ask anything about anything (well, mostly anyway). Just guessing. ### I don't think there is a need for an installation configuration category, let alone individual forums for each OS. Installation is best covered using Tutorials/The existing installation documentation. so I'd remove the Installation category forums and instead cover it in Tutorials and in a catchall/general questions section in libreoffice apps category. After all installing is not black magic... I partially disagree. One might argue for a specialty forum in general related to a specific operating system, but I don't think it need be specific to installation. I also don't think that installation questions should be handled in tutorials, it is certainly not the first place I would jump to if I could not install some software. One nice thing about a separate installation section, is that it will probably primarily attract the new users that have difficulty in this area. It will likely not see heavy use, which is probably good because it means that a new problem will be close to the top where a new person is most likely to see it and maybe have their question answered immediately. ### In LibreOffice Applications, I wouldn't split them out as much, but rather shrink them to: * Writer Math * Calc * Impress Draw * Base * Catch-all/General (also the place to ask installation/configuration problems if not covered by the tutorials) - might even consider to put Base into this forum as well. I disagree with this as well, but I will admit that Draw and Impress share much in common. Math people may be working in Write, and I expect much more traffic in Write than in Math, but again, categorizing in this way is generally useful, even if there are only a few posts a month in this category. The real purpose is that the Math questions are generally very specific, and it makes it much easier later to browse what has been discussed in that area. If you can have math be a sub-category of Write, however, that might be a good thing. I certainly would not put Base into General, because the questions are so specific. For installation related questions, people can be asked in a sticky to prefix their topics with [win] [lin] [mac] (, [sol], [and] [ios],...) New people in general are not likely to do this. If they are asked as part of the registration process, however, that might help in this regard. ### The SiteFeedback Website contributor forums seem to overlap I assume that site feedback is for a general user that wants to say something like this forum is horrible because (or similar). I assume that the later is for people actively developing the LO web site (ie, not the forum). ### And I assume that the Admin-Category will be hidden for Anonymous regular Users, right? :-) One can hope! So I'd rather start with fewer forums, and if real-life usage proves me wrong, create the additional, specialized forums. It is certainly easier to add new categories than it is to remove them. But especially Math and Draw don't get so many questions that are specifc. Base might deserve its own section because the nature of the questions is redically different, and most of the time require database knowledge, but probably not from a volume perspective. Then again, I don't read/monitor the english user's list, so it might be different from e.g. the german project. So in short: * remove Installation Category (cover it in tutorial and app-questions) * combine Apps forums (and create a general forum for non-app specific question like for installation) * explain difference between General Discussion and Lounge * check overlap betwen Site Feedback and Website ciao Christian -- Andrew Pitonyak My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/**AndrewMacro.odthttp://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+help@**documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org Problems?
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice Forums Categories Proposal
Hi Joel, *, On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Joel Madero jmadero@gmail.com wrote: On 09/27/2012 05:11 AM, Christian Lohmaier wrote: On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:33 AM, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote: [...] Not sure wether I like the creation of an off-topic area right from the start... [...] For installation related questions, people can be asked in a sticky to prefix their topics with [win] [lin] [mac] (, [sol], [and] [ios],...) The reality is that most users don't read sticked stuff so asking for them to do certain things in those notes might just be ignored. Well - it is a forum, there will be moderators, so topics can be adjusted if people don't follow the rules by themselves. In another post Leif suggested a bugs and errors section. I'm strongly opposed to this. Bugzilla is the one and only way to file bug/error reports. Everything else is just creating a wrong impression, while in fact those reports will not be looked at. ciao Christian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: LibreOffice Portable
Hi Thorsten, all Continuing our discussion in public: if branch 3.5 is the stable one, isn't it correct to assume that PortableApps AND TDF should be coherent with the ReleasePlan? http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan If there is only one Recommended version then it should be the current branch until the new branch reaches x.x.3 That is the version that TDF and PortableApps should have available. Otherwise it is BAD propaganda to have an Early adopters version (TDF's own definition) as the showcase for LibreOffice (Portable or not) However if TDF doesn't follow their own Release Lifecycle (see image in the linked page), how can you ask that from PortableApps? This is something that the BoD needs to decide. If the Lifecycle has no value, then stop wasting time and resources on maintaining the previous branch. If it makes sense then don't recommend the new branch until it reaches x.x.3 The download page just needs to reflect this decision. All other versions are in different states of Development. These should be available on a *separate* page for people who don't mind having unstable versions but want the latest features (of course whining is not acceptable from such users but bug reporting his highly valued) And to be coherent with this only the recommended version should be announced. Announcing versions from both branches (http://blog.documentfoundation.org/) just generates confusion. Just my 2 cents Regards, Pedro -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice-Portable-tp4009436p4009682.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice Forums Categories Proposal
On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Christian Lohmaier lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi Joel, *, On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Joel Madero jmadero@gmail.com wrote: On 09/27/2012 05:11 AM, Christian Lohmaier wrote: On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:33 AM, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote: [...] Not sure wether I like the creation of an off-topic area right from the start... I'm willing to discuss but ultimately my stance is I am in favor of off-topic immediately. It helps give a sense of just a place to come and meet other FOSS people, also no reason to be strictly business right from the start. [...] For installation related questions, people can be asked in a sticky to prefix their topics with [win] [lin] [mac] (, [sol], [and] [ios],...) The reality is that most users don't read sticked stuff so asking for them to do certain things in those notes might just be ignored. Well - it is a forum, there will be moderators, so topics can be adjusted if people don't follow the rules by themselves. More work for limited moderators seems like a bad idea to me if it can be easily solved by separating them. I'm not opposed to having one installation section in theory, but I think the idea of having users put brackets in is just not realistic and having moderators constantly having to change subjects of point out this problem to users is also not realistic. In another post Leif suggested a bugs and errors section. I'm strongly opposed to this. Bugzilla is the one and only way to file bug/error reports. Everything else is just creating a wrong impression, while in fact those reports will not be looked at. Agreed. We had briefly discussed a bugs and errors section and ultimately we decided this wasn't a good idea. If we notice someone posting a thread that is a bug, we'll point them to the bug reporting section of our webpage and let them file a bug. Regards, Joel -- *Joel Madero* LibO QA Volunteer jmadero@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: LibreOffice Portable
Pedro wrote: This is something that the BoD needs to decide. If the Lifecycle has no value, then stop wasting time and resources on maintaining the previous branch. If it makes sense then don't recommend the new branch until it reaches x.x.3 This seems ultimately to be still an issue of how http://www.libreoffice.org/download/ is worded, right? Also please bear in mind that sweeping x.x.0-x.x.2 [1] under a rug will not necessarily make the experience a better one, once we switch users to x.x.3 subsequently. If the answer to the above question is yes, and you're willing to invest effort towards improving it, let's move this over to the website list. Doing one thing without stopping to do the other should be the aim. [1] I would not take the x.x.3 will be recommended as the law - maybe x.x.2 is already good enough, maybe only x.x.4 is. Cheers, -- Thorsten -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice Forums Categories Proposal
Hi all, Thanks for working on this! Lucian Oprea wrote (27-09-12 15:29) The idea to start with fewer boards is very good. In the future, if needed you can create new categories and forums and move there specific messages. One could also think that a special category makes it more attractive to post / search on that topic. E.g. configuration and api/macro's might be interesting ones. So that would be more likely to gather advanced users too. Or do I underestimate the tools available skills needed for searching ;-) Cheers, -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org - www.librelex.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: LibreOffice Forums Categories Proposal
Hi Christian, Thanks for your comments, (see my in-line comments) Le 2012-09-27 08:11, Christian Lohmaier a écrit : Hi *, On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:33 AM, Marc Parém...@marcpare.com wrote: Please note that the categories and forums shown on the page[2], at this point, are only suggestions and may be modified (some may be removed or added) after we have discussed this as a group. OK, my 0,02€ :-) Where's the difference between General Discussion Lounge (or whatever name will be chosen) - it is not clear to me. ### Hmm, I guess there could have been a better description for this particular forum. It's a place where people hold discussions on topics that are not necessarily and most probably not related to TDF/LibreOffice. This will also allow moderators the option of pointing users who wish to hold off-topic discussions to this area of our forums. It's also a way to help with community building, where we can make users feel like they can come back and socialize at a more familiar level and hold friendly conversations that are not related to LibreOffice --a lounge to kick off your shoes, relax and talk to the community. The General Discussion forums should have topics related to LibreOffice. Some examples would be LibreOffice in the media (newspaper/magazine articles mentioning LibreOffice, or seen on video); general thoughts on how to improve the suite as a whole; or ideas on marketing etc. I don't think there is a need for an installation configuration category, let alone individual forums for each OS. Installation is best covered using Tutorials/The existing installation documentation. so I'd remove the Installation category forums and instead cover it in Tutorials and in a catchall/general questions section in libreoffice apps category. After all installing is not black magic... ### I don't think that installation is as easy as you think for a new user or someone who has found themselves in a mess after installing/upgrading. The first thing a user would do on a forums is to look for a specific category. If these are separated right from the very start, we will be able to help users more efficiently, and as a plus, user-helpers (those who are interested in helping out with trouble-shooting with us) will be able to visit their own particular OS installation forums section without having to wade through the others. The benefits work both ways for users and helpers. Users who have problems with installs generally do not come to a forums/list with the idea that the be directed to a tutorial, they are more interested in advice with a real person. Tutorials are nice as extra resource, but the primary reason for a user who has come to a forums for installation help is to get help by an informed person, which is what we are offering. In LibreOffice Applications, I wouldn't split them out as much, but rather shrink them to: * Writer Math * Calc * Impress Draw * Base * Catch-all/General (also the place to ask installation/configuration problems if not covered by the tutorials) - might even consider to put Base into this forum as well. For installation related questions, people can be asked in a sticky to prefix their topics with [win] [lin] [mac] (, [sol], [and] [ios],...) We tried to do this on the contributor mailing lists and the results are that even the contributors do not do this. So, if the people engaged in the project do not follow this rule, how could we justify asking users to do follow this rule? I find it easier to categorize the forums to make it easier on both the users and moderators-helpers; thereby making prefixes unnecessary. ### The SiteFeedback Website contributor forums seem to overlap Yes, and this is on purpose. Site feedback is for feedback of the forums site from the users -- whether they like the layout; whether they like certain forums; whether they like to visual aspects of the site ... Contributor Website: The contributor forums mirror those of the mailing lists and these are to give the option to those mailing lists who would prefer to use the forums instead of mailing lists. We are hoping to hear from the various mailing-list-leads as to whether they would like to: * move to a forums OR * not use the forums at all (at which point the forums would be deleted from the forums site OR * test try using both forums and their own mailing lists for a period of time after which they would decide on which one to keep. So, for example, the contributor website forum would have the same exchange of discussions that are now happening on the website mailing list. The contributor section of the website is where serious contributor work get done for the project -- a clear distinction from the user section which is there to help users in need. ### And I assume that the Admin-Category will be hidden for Anonymous regular Users, right? Yup. So I'd rather start with fewer forums, and if
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice Forums Categories Proposal
+1 On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:29 PM, Lucian Oprea oprea.l...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, The idea to start with fewer boards is very good. In the future, if needed you can create new categories and forums and move there specific messages. Waiting for opinions and then modify the proposal. Best regards, Lucian --- Lucian Oprea Telefon: 0745 592602 Pe 27.09.2012 16:24, Jonathan Aquilina a scris: As Christian suggested I think the main sections of the forum to start out with are sections for writer, calc, etc. What do you guys think would those be good things to initially start with? On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak and...@pitonyak.org wrote: I do not totally agree Christian details inline... That said, your summary was easier for me to read than the list... On 09/27/2012 08:11 AM, Christian Lohmaier wrote: Where's the difference between General Discussion Lounge (or whatever name will be chosen) - it is not clear to me. I assume that it is an off topic forum where you can ask anything about anything (well, mostly anyway). Just guessing. ### I don't think there is a need for an installation configuration category, let alone individual forums for each OS. Installation is best covered using Tutorials/The existing installation documentation. so I'd remove the Installation category forums and instead cover it in Tutorials and in a catchall/general questions section in libreoffice apps category. After all installing is not black magic... I partially disagree. One might argue for a specialty forum in general related to a specific operating system, but I don't think it need be specific to installation. I also don't think that installation questions should be handled in tutorials, it is certainly not the first place I would jump to if I could not install some software. One nice thing about a separate installation section, is that it will probably primarily attract the new users that have difficulty in this area. It will likely not see heavy use, which is probably good because it means that a new problem will be close to the top where a new person is most likely to see it and maybe have their question answered immediately. ### In LibreOffice Applications, I wouldn't split them out as much, but rather shrink them to: * Writer Math * Calc * Impress Draw * Base * Catch-all/General (also the place to ask installation/configuration problems if not covered by the tutorials) - might even consider to put Base into this forum as well. I disagree with this as well, but I will admit that Draw and Impress share much in common. Math people may be working in Write, and I expect much more traffic in Write than in Math, but again, categorizing in this way is generally useful, even if there are only a few posts a month in this category. The real purpose is that the Math questions are generally very specific, and it makes it much easier later to browse what has been discussed in that area. If you can have math be a sub-category of Write, however, that might be a good thing. I certainly would not put Base into General, because the questions are so specific. For installation related questions, people can be asked in a sticky to prefix their topics with [win] [lin] [mac] (, [sol], [and] [ios],...) New people in general are not likely to do this. If they are asked as part of the registration process, however, that might help in this regard. ### The SiteFeedback Website contributor forums seem to overlap I assume that site feedback is for a general user that wants to say something like this forum is horrible because (or similar). I assume that the later is for people actively developing the LO web site (ie, not the forum). ### And I assume that the Admin-Category will be hidden for Anonymous regular Users, right? :-) One can hope! So I'd rather start with fewer forums, and if real-life usage proves me wrong, create the additional, specialized forums. It is certainly easier to add new categories than it is to remove them. But especially Math and Draw don't get so many questions that are specifc. Base might deserve its own section because the nature of the questions is redically different, and most of the time require database knowledge, but probably not from a volume perspective. Then again, I don't read/monitor the english user's list, so it might be different from e.g. the german project. So in short: * remove Installation Category (cover it in tutorial and app-questions) * combine Apps forums (and create a general forum for non-app specific question like for installation) * explain difference between General Discussion and Lounge * check overlap betwen Site Feedback and Website ciao Christian -- Andrew Pitonyak My Macro Document:
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: LibreOffice Forums Categories Proposal
Hi Marc, *, On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote: Le 2012-09-27 08:11, Christian Lohmaier a écrit : On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:33 AM, Marc Parém...@marcpare.com wrote: Users who have problems with installs generally do not come to a forums/list with the idea that the be directed to a tutorial, they are more interested in advice with a real person. Tutorials are nice as extra resource, but the primary reason for a user who has come to a forums for installation help is to get help by an informed person, which is what we are offering. Oh, you're oversimplifying things here, while of course the goal is that people get help by informed person, just creating separate categories will not magically assure this. * Catch-all/General (also the place to ask installation/configuration problems if not covered by the tutorials) - might even consider to put Base into this forum as well. For installation related questions, people can be asked in a sticky to prefix their topics with [win] [lin] [mac] (, [sol], [and] [ios],...) We tried to do this on the contributor mailing lists and the results are that even the contributors do not do this. I'll scream the next time someone comes with a but on mailinglist.. argument. For heavens sake: We're setting up a forum because it is *NOT* a mailinglist. On a mailinglist new posters don't see existing posts. While they could visit the archives, they usually don't, and existing posts cannot be modified. So when someone doesn't follow the rules, it cannot be corrected. This is all the opposite for forums. When people see the tag being used, they'll use it. If it is forgotten once, a moderator will add it. Coming with the argument that it is more work for moderators is only halfway true. Moderators are initially expected to scan every message that is posted for valid content/whether it matches the forum it was posted in or needs to be moved. So the more in effort is in actually editing the topic. But that IMHO is a rather small burden. So, if the people engaged in the project do not follow this rule, how could we justify asking users to do follow this rule? Again: It is the moderators' job that the forum rules are followed. And contrary to mailinglists, those rules are enforceable. In a well maintained forum you'll see many existing topics following that schema. And if the person asking a new question is not mentally retarded, he might get the idea just by viewing the existing topics, without having read the sticky post/some rules on a separate page. I find it easier to categorize the forums to make it easier on both the users and moderators-helpers; thereby making prefixes unnecessary. Empty forums / forums with only a handful posts are a nuisance. But hey, that's exactly the reason I didn't want to be coordinator, but leave the decision to someone else :-) [...] Whether a forums has fewer questions are not, IMO, is not a good reason to combine them. I personally disagree on this. Within the OOo-Project there were many such dead mailinglists, and that just lead to people posting to more general lists just to reach more people, either leaving out the dedicated mailinglist completely, or only including it in cc. And yes, now I did myself come up with but on mailinglists argument :-) puts head onto pillow ans screams/ ciao Christian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: LibreOffice Portable
Pedro schrieb: Hi, I agree with Thorsten and others that too easy access to old versions (what might contain security issues) is risky. But IMHO in the FAQ a Where can I get old versions with hints concerning possible risks would be appropriate. CU Rainer -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
