Re: [Elecraft] OT: RF Clipper "works with Elecraft"
ever since I out a G3LLL RF clipper in my first transceiver,,, and saw the difference... I was convinced how effective RF clipping can be. G3LLL was careful to indicate that you should roll off the bottom end... so as to not totally overburden your powersupply with the extended "duty cycle" using such a device on ssb. I have played with and still have Datong, Daiwa, MFJ and TenTec's earlier rf clippers. When set properly you will NOT get complaints of turn off that processor... just compliments. Most recently using a slightly modified TenTec version. With the latest iterations from Lyle on the K3...making it 'crunch' better, I will be soon be looking for new home for the pile. google on "RF processing ssb" something to understand and appreciate on the K3 or other radios. and I HATE bad audio... nasty clipping effects, distracting distortions...etc bill __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RF Clipper "works with Elecraft"
In many radios full power cannot be obtained without substantial (and fast) ALC present. Having fast ALC on top of heavily clipped audio introduces extra distortion as well as boosts ambient noise. A good test of a processor is in pileups. K3 passes the test wonderfully. Ignacy Wes Stewart wrote: > > > Note to Ignacy: Being outside the ALC loop isn't necessarily bad. A > properly adjusted processor can eliminate the need for ALC. > > > Wes N7WS > > > --- On Thu, 2/5/09, Ignacy wrote: > >> From: Ignacy >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: RF Clipper "works with Elecraft" >> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 8:50 PM >> I used a number of external speech processors with mobile >> radios to increase >> their punch. My design (2 x 9 Mhz filters), design by DF4ZS >> and and old one >> by MFJ. It was hard to get good boosts because an extrnal >> processor is >> outside the ALC loop creating extra distortions and filters >> in many >> processors (including DF4ZS) are poor. 715 uses 2 >> inexpensive ceramic >> filters with a BW of 4 Khz. K3 with its processor + an >> equalizer is a >> killer DX machine. Just crank it up. >> >> Ignacy > > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/OT%3A-RF-Clipper-%22works-with-Elecraft%22-tp2276805p2285584.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RF Clipper "works with Elecraft"
Does anyone remember the Datong RF Clipper , I used one in the 70's with a SB 102. It did really help ! 73 de Jacques F9OJ K2 0937 K3 2450 - Original Message - From: "Wes Stewart" To: ; "Ignacy" Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: RF Clipper "works with Elecraft" > > Careful reading of the TenTec ad will show, by what they omit, the problem with RF clipping: the intermodulation distortion. > > If you are not a K3 owner, or have another radio, and are interested in an add-on device then you might look at Note no. 5 here: > > http://k6mhe.com/n7ws/ > > I sold a couple of hundred sets of boards for this (at cost), Circuit Board Specialists produced them (complete with my call on the board and without my knowledge) and a kit company was founded on the design. Nope it wasn't mine, the Editor of Ham Radio Magazine founded "Radio Kit" simultaneously with the publication of the article. Exploring the ethics of this is left for an exercise for the reader. > > The split-band approach is also used in the Kenwood TS-870, prized by many for its great transmit audio. See: > > http://k6mhe.com/n7ws/TS870_In_Depth_Manual.pdf > > Note to Ignacy: Being outside the ALC loop isn't necessarily bad. A properly adjusted processor can eliminate the need for ALC. > > > Wes N7WS > > > --- On Thu, 2/5/09, Ignacy wrote: > > > From: Ignacy > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: RF Clipper "works with Elecraft" > > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 8:50 PM > > I used a number of external speech processors with mobile > > radios to increase > > their punch. My design (2 x 9 Mhz filters), design by DF4ZS > > and and old one > > by MFJ. It was hard to get good boosts because an extrnal > > processor is > > outside the ALC loop creating extra distortions and filters > > in many > > processors (including DF4ZS) are poor. 715 uses 2 > > inexpensive ceramic > > filters with a BW of 4 Khz. K3 with its processor + an > > equalizer is a > > killer DX machine. Just crank it up. > > > > Ignacy > > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1895 - Release Date: 15/01/09 07:46 > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RF Clipper "works with Elecraft"
Careful reading of the TenTec ad will show, by what they omit, the problem with RF clipping: the intermodulation distortion. If you are not a K3 owner, or have another radio, and are interested in an add-on device then you might look at Note no. 5 here: http://k6mhe.com/n7ws/ I sold a couple of hundred sets of boards for this (at cost), Circuit Board Specialists produced them (complete with my call on the board and without my knowledge) and a kit company was founded on the design. Nope it wasn't mine, the Editor of Ham Radio Magazine founded "Radio Kit" simultaneously with the publication of the article. Exploring the ethics of this is left for an exercise for the reader. The split-band approach is also used in the Kenwood TS-870, prized by many for its great transmit audio. See: http://k6mhe.com/n7ws/TS870_In_Depth_Manual.pdf Note to Ignacy: Being outside the ALC loop isn't necessarily bad. A properly adjusted processor can eliminate the need for ALC. Wes N7WS --- On Thu, 2/5/09, Ignacy wrote: > From: Ignacy > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: RF Clipper "works with Elecraft" > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 8:50 PM > I used a number of external speech processors with mobile > radios to increase > their punch. My design (2 x 9 Mhz filters), design by DF4ZS > and and old one > by MFJ. It was hard to get good boosts because an extrnal > processor is > outside the ALC loop creating extra distortions and filters > in many > processors (including DF4ZS) are poor. 715 uses 2 > inexpensive ceramic > filters with a BW of 4 Khz. K3 with its processor + an > equalizer is a > killer DX machine. Just crank it up. > > Ignacy __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RF Clipper "works with Elecraft"
I used a number of external speech processors with mobile radios to increase their punch. My design (2 x 9 Mhz filters), design by DF4ZS and and old one by MFJ. It was hard to get good boosts because an extrnal processor is outside the ALC loop creating extra distortions and filters in many processors (including DF4ZS) are poor. 715 uses 2 inexpensive ceramic filters with a BW of 4 Khz. K3 with its processor + an equalizer is a killer DX machine. Just crank it up. Ignacy Lyle Johnson wrote: > >> ...I don't know the details of the K3 implementation, >> but the spec sheet refers to "compression". > > In SSB modes, the K3 performs clipping at the 15 kHz IF, then bandpass > filters the result. It is further filtered by the 8.215 MHz IF quartz > filter. > > Thus, the SSB speech processor used in the K3 is IF envelope clipping. > It is preceded by a 8-band equalizer, so the radio can be adjusted for > from natural sounding, though "punchy" to just plain awful if you wish > it to be :-) > > 73, > > Lyle KK7P > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/OT%3A-RF-Clipper-%22works-with-Elecraft%22-tp2276805p2279028.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RF Clipper "works with Elecraft"
> ...I don't know the details of the K3 implementation, > but the spec sheet refers to "compression". In SSB modes, the K3 performs clipping at the 15 kHz IF, then bandpass filters the result. It is further filtered by the 8.215 MHz IF quartz filter. Thus, the SSB speech processor used in the K3 is IF envelope clipping. It is preceded by a 8-band equalizer, so the radio can be adjusted for from natural sounding, though "punchy" to just plain awful if you wish it to be :-) 73, Lyle KK7P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RF Clipper "works with Elecraft"
Before the 715 is dismissed out of hand and chalked up to "unnecessary on the K3" or some other rig doesn't work right, consider that the latest releases of Orion/Orion II code have very effective RF speech processing - as good as any. But there is a difference between RF compression (the usual form of processing in DSP radios) and clipping (a la the 715 and others that came before it) in terms of how the signal stands out from the crowd. Having said that, I don't know the details of the K3 implementation, but the spec sheet refers to "compression". It may well be a useful gizmo for contesters regardless of radio brand, and certainly for users of older radios -- of which there are many still out there. I'd just take this as a very modern twist on what was once a standard accessory, that isn't necessarily dead yet in terms of usefulness :-) Grant/NQ5T On Feb 5, 2009, at 1:36 PM, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote: > http://radio.tentec.com/accessories/715 > > Not sure we need this the K3. > > I used to use an RF Clipper by DATONG (I still have it)...same concept > AF to RF to AF. It worked REALLY WELL with my rig back then (which > had no capability for RF processing). Probably talking 25+ years ago. > > de Doug KR2Q > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: RF Clipper "works with Elecraft"
> http://radio.tentec.com/accessories/715 > > Not sure we need this the K3. This function is built in to the K3 in SSB modes and available via the CMP control. > I used to use an RF Clipper by DATONG (I still have it)...same concept > AF to RF to AF. It worked REALLY WELL with my rig back then (which > had no capability for RF processing). Probably talking 25+ years ago. I still have an old Comdel Speech Procesor. It is variosuly referred to as a CSP-1 or a CSP-11 due to the edge of the rubber stamp they used to indicate model number and serial number often smeared and looked like a leading "1". See review in March, 1967 QST. I'll sell it for a *lot* less than the 715! :-) 73, Lyle KK7P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
