[EVDL] OT Uber EVs are e-delivering ice-cream on-demand to Singaporeans
% Keep discussions EV releated %
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/uber-delivering-ice-cream-singaporeans-053943972.html
Uber is delivering ice-cream to Singaporeans again, and guess how they’re
doing it?
[Jul 21 2015]
[image / Uber
http://media.zenfs.com/en-SG/homerun/newsroom.news.yahoo.com.sg/3d9db0b2ebc2607c5c531518dbeec9b0
Uber is re-launching its annual ice-cream on-demand service in Singapore but
with an added drone medium of transportation
]
Uber will be reviving its popular on-demand service for ice cream on Friday
(Jul 24) but with an added form of transportation: drones.
The flying gizmos will be part of the one-day-only affair, which is also
expected to have runner and car transportation mediums.
In a blog post Wednesday (Jul 22), the on-demand private car app said that
the service would be made available from 11am to 5pm. Uber users can open
the app, set the location they want the ice cream to be delivered to and
choose the “Ice Cream” option in the types of transportation services
provided in-app.
Once connected, users can then order and the ice cream “will be delivered
curbside within minutes”, the blog post said.
If the order is within the Central Business District, runners will be
dispatched with backpacks carrying the ice cream orders. In other areas,
electric cars and UberX cars will be used. [An e-drone] will be dispatched
for certain orders.
Orders will be set at a minimum of four servings of ice cream for $15. No
cash will be required as all payments will be made via the app, similar to
how transportation fares for Uber-booked vehicles are paid by customers.
This year, the annual ice-cream affair is being rolled out to some 254
cities in 58 countries. The jump in cities is from only 33 cities being part
of the programme in 2013.
The ice-cream service launched in Singapore two years ago. The country was
the first in Asia to have the on-demand service. First-time participants
from Asia joining this year include Jakarta and Bali.
[© yahoo.com]
http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-an-UberX-Uber-Black-and-Uber-Taxi
What is the difference between an UberX, Uber Black and Uber Taxi?
David S. Rose ...
UberX are licensed, car service FHVs (the lower end of the FHV market). If
you booked a regular Uber car and one of these showed up, you'd be
disappointed, and might leave some carping feedback. But by setting up a
significant price differential, they can now expand the fleet (and car
availability), with full disclosure that you might get a non-luxury car, but
at least it will be much cheaper ...
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Re: [EVDL] Lead GC battery capacity
On 28 Jul 2015 at 6:30, Willie2 via EV wrote: The longevity of ebike batteries is a BIG unknown here. One thing to watch out for is that (according to what I read on Endless Sphere) some of the really cheap Chinese bike batteries are made with recycled (used) laptop cells. I don't know how you'd check for that, though. The other issue is the quality and reliability of the BMS. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: How EVSE Energy Storage Can Make Good Grid Partners (v)
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/how-ev-chargers-and-energy-storage-can-make-good-grid-partners How EV Chargers and Energy Storage Can Make Good Grid Partners Jeff St. John July 21, 2015 [images http://dqbasmyouzti2.cloudfront.net/assets/content/cache/made/content/images/articles/ChargePoint_GreenCharge_GaragePhoto_XL_310_207.JPG (energy storage up on wall, behind EVSE) http://dqbasmyouzti2.cloudfront.net/assets/content/cache/made/content/images/articles/ChargePoint_GreenCharge_DCmgmt_Chart_XL_580_423.png (energy use chart) video https://youtu.be/KEWzy7kHarM How Electric Cars Could Make or Break the Power Grid Rewired Jul 10, 2015 Electric vehicle sales have grown exponentially in recent years. Today, there are more than two dozen plug-in cars on the market, and dozens more are set to hit showrooms before the end of the decade. ] ChargePoint and Green Charge link batteries and public EV chargers to limit demand charges and make loads more flexible. Plug-in electric vehicles could be a major challenge or a major resource, according to the utilities plotting ways to turn EV charging stations into smart, grid-responsive resources. But the first steps toward making EV charging an asset may come not from fancy vehicle-to-grid (V2G) policies and programs, but from the demand charges that penalize utility customers for spikes in their electricity consumption. EV chargers are one new electric load that can potentially create big new spikes in demand, which is putting pressure on EV charging station hosts to do something about their impact on the grid. And behind-the-meter batteries could be a useful solution to that problem. That's what ChargePoint and Green Charge Networks say, at least. The two startups announced Tuesday that they’re teaming up, with ChargePoint offering its EV charging station network customers a quick solution to demand charges via Green Charge’s energy storage systems. The two have already been running in tandem for months in Redwood City, Calif., where they’ve backed up five EV chargers, including two DC-powered fast chargers, with batteries that have helped reduce the city’s demand charges to the tune of about $7,000 per year, said Green Charge CEO Vic Shao. Below is a screenshot from Green Charge's system, showing how one of its GreenStation units backing a charging station at Redwood City's public library capped what otherwise would have been demand-charge-inducing spikes in grid consumption with the use of injected battery power. Companies like Green Charge, Stem, Coda Energy and the dynamic duo of Tesla and SolarCity have been installing lithium-ion battery systems in buildings for similar demand charge management purposes, with California and New York as key markets. But as EV ownership rises, and more cities and businesses look to install charging gear to support them, plug-in EV parking lots may become the next logical extension of the business model. “We’re looking at many other locations, particularly in California, where demand charges are high,” said Rich Quattrini, ChargePoint’s senior director of business development. “Because we don’t own the stations in most cases, we’re recommending Green Charge Networks to help offset the operational costs wherever demand charges are high.” DC charging stations, which can pump up to 50 kilowatts at a time to fill up an EV’s battery in about 30 minutes, are particularly problematic from a demand-charge perspective, he noted. Whereas a parking lot full of 240-watt Level 2 chargers tends to see enough cars plugging in and unplugging over a day to yield a fairly predictable and steady load, a single DC charger will see an unpredictable number of EVs roll in for quick charge-ups over the course of a day, leading to a far “spikier” profile, he said. Green Charge’s first Department of Energy-backed pilot projects in New York City included several EV charging systems at rental car agencies, which gave the startup a chance to learn how to manage these unpredictable spikes, Shao noted. It’s already backing up NRG Energy’s eVgo charging stations in California, including several schools and 7-Eleven store sites. “EV chargers add volatility and unpredictability to a building,” he said. “These are all conditions that Green Charge loves, because they’re the exact conditions our system was built to tackle.” These are the same kinds of spikes and surges in electricity demand that make utilities concerned about EVs, by the way. At a local level, several EVs plugged in at once could overload local transformers and grid circuits. DC charging stations, which often require upgrades to electric infrastructure, may be a bit more predictable on this front than the lower-level chargers being installed in garages by new EV owners. On a system-wide level, EV charging could cause significant shifts in customer consumption patterns that require changes in utility planning to manage. Utilities in EV-rich states like
[EVDL] EVLN: CA-Assm Stone's AB604 allows e-skateboards in bike lanes
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/government-and-politics/20150720/electric-skateboards-soon-could-cruise-in-bike-lanes
Electric skateboards soon could cruise in bike lanes
By Samantha Clark | 07/20/15
[images
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/storyimage/NE/20150720/NEWS/150729970/AR/0/AR-150729970.jpgmaxh=400maxw=667
Kyle Doerksen, Onewheel inventor, and Assemblyman Mark Stone, ride the
eponymously named Onewheels down West Cliff Drive near Natural Bridges State
Beach in Santa Cruz on Monday. (Arielle Berger -- Santa Cruz Sentinel)
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/storyimage/NE/20150720/NEWS/150729970/EP/1/1/EP-150729970.jpgmaxh=400maxw=667
Assemblyman Mark Stone learns to ride the eponymously named Onewheel
electric boards at the Onewheel office in Santa Cruz. (Arielle Berger --
Santa Cruz Sentinel)
]
SANTA CRUZ Electric skateboards are becoming more popular. However,
riding them basically anywhere in California is illegal.
Assemblyman Mark Stone, D-Scotts Valley, could help change that soon. He’s
co-author of a bill spearheaded by Assemblywoman Kristen Olsen, R-Modesto,
to legalize motorized boards and allow them wherever bikes are permitted,
including bike lanes.
Stone came to Santa Cruz on Monday to learn more about electric boards from
local manufacturer Onewheel, and how to ride one.
Wearing a helmet and dress clothes, the state legislator took a wobbly
stance on the board that has one fat wheel in the middle.
With a slight lean forward, Stone glided straight ahead. Leaning left, he
turned left. Leaning right, he turned right.
A thin, high-tech battery can power the Onewheel for up to 6 miles, and the
board cruises up to 15 mph.
“It’s just such classic Santa Cruz-type innovation,” Stone said. “It’s like
skateboarding, which is endemic to our culture here. We reached out to learn
more about what they’re doing.”
The state banned early gas-powered versions of electric skateboards from
street use in 1977 because they were loud and produced significant
pollution. Now the market for electric skateboards is growing, and the
industry has a huge potential for growth, said Kyle Doerksen, creator of the
Onewheel, which sells for $1,499.
“The laws need to catch up with a lot of innovation that’s happening,”
Doerksen said.
First introduced last year but then tabled, AB 604 has passed the Assembly
and the Senate and is on its way to the governor’s desk.
Like bicycles, motorized boards aren’t designed only for recreation but also
commuting. So the bill, if passed, would allow riders to use bike lanes and
other infrastructure meant for alternatives to driving.
“You’re not a car and you’re not a pedestrian, and the boards go a similar
speed as a bike. It’s better to ride with our other wheeled friends,”
Doerksen said.
The initial proposal saw resistance from some bicyclist groups, but the
bill’s authors have been working to mitigate their concerns.
“Electric skateboards, like electric bicycles, are new technologies that we
will need to adapt to, and their higher speeds make them a better fit for
the bike lane than the sidewalk,” said Amelia Conlen, director of the
nonprofit Bike Santa Cruz County. “We continue to push for protected bike
facilities that will allow everyone to share the bike lane safely.”
AB 604
• The bill would give electric skateboard riders full use of bike lanes and
wherever bicycles are allowed. • Assemblywoman Kristin Olsen, R-Modesto,
reintroduced the bill, which is headed for the governor’s desk. • California
banned electric skateboards in 1977.
[© santacruzsentinel.com]
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http://www.satprnews.com/2015/07/15/daimlers-iconic-smart-car-is-now-mirrorlink-enabled/
Daimler’s Iconic Smart EV Is Now smartPhone MirrorLink-Enabled
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099189_hydrogen-fueling-troubles-3000-hp-electric-car-nissan-leaf-lawsuit-the-week-in-reverse-video
OT 1hr h2 refueling stations are not reliably open 70 ticked drivers
http://www.foxbororeporter.com/articles/2015/07/16/features/17411126.txt
PV-powered EVSE is part of Schneider Electric's plan in Foxboro-MA
+
EVLN: Zero to whoa EcoCab EV cab company comes to Portland-OR
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Re: [EVDL] Lead GC battery capacity
You're comparing apples and oranges. - six T105s would be about $900. - 12 TS-LPF100s: about $1500 + $300 BMS - five 20ah ebike batteries @ $285. Total: $1425. - Experience... indicates two 20ah ebike batteries can do ($570.) Then also instead of six Trojans, 3 deep cycle 12v Lead batteries at a cost of $300 will also do the job. Bob ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Lead GC battery capacity
On 07/27/2015 06:08 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: Willie2 via EV wrote: Thanks! Bottom line, take away: 50-90 ah on a fresh lead pack. It's not quite that bad. The Peukert effect does not change the ACTUAL capacity; it only describes the APPARENT capacity due to high currents. If you have a 200ah battery and discharge it at 100 amps so it appears dead after removing 100ah, it is in fact at the 50% discharged point. That's a safe discharge level -- you can do that every day for 600+ cycles. The other 100ah is still there -- you just can't use it with a 100 amp draw. If you draw a lower current, then it will be there. :-) Somewhat against my will, I just did some lead battery shopping. T105s are about $150. The minutes at 75 amps rating seems most appropriate. That would be just under 100 ah. From what you say, it appears those are usable amphours. SAMs batteries, with presumably less capacity and longevity, are about $90. So, a pack of six T105s would be about $900. Negatives: corrosion, watering, lower performance as SOC decreases, perhaps 1/3 the life of lithium, all or nothing major replacement. Compare to 12 TS-LPF100s: about $1500 plus about $300 worth of BMS stuff. Negative: nightmare of wiring maintenance, all or nothing major replacement. Compare to 5 20ah ebike batteries @ $285. Total: $1425. Experience so far indicates as few as 2 20ah ebike batteries can be used at a cost of $570. The longevity of ebike batteries is a BIG unknown here. I believe it is likely that the above can be scaled to larger vehicles. If the golf cart projects are successful, I will be exploring higher voltages and capacities on larger vehicles. The same 50% capacity limit applies to lithiums, too. If you discharge them to 80-100% on every cycle, you won't get as long a life. (How long the life will be depends drastically on the type and quality of the cells). I will not accept the contention that lithium batteries should be limited to 50%. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: Zero to whoa EcoCab e-cab company comes to Portland-OR
http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/index.ssf/2015/07/uber_ecocab_launching_tesla_ta.html Why EcoCab is launching new Tesla taxi service in Portland amid Uber-mania (poll, video) By Joseph Rose | July 22, 2015 [video flash] Tesla Model S road trip: zero to whoa During a 2013 road trip, Oregonian/OregonLive commuting reporter Joseph Rose gave the Tesla Model S a zero-to-sixty test. He didn't have a stopwatch with him, but according to the factory it takes 4.2 seconds, which is entirely believable given Joe's experience. With ride-hailing services Uber and Lyft siphoning business away from traditional cab companies, there has probably never been a worse time to start a new taxi service in Portland, right? Wrong, says EcoCab. The Longview-based taxi company plans to start picking up fares Wednesday in whisper-quiet, all-electric vehicles, including luxury Tesla sport sedans. It will even charge a premium over its competitors for the rides. In March, the City Council voted unanimously to approve 51 new taxi licenses for EcoCab. The company is expected to start its first day in Portland by driving Commissioner Steve Novick to his downtown City Hall office. But the taxi business in Stumptown has never been more complicated. EcoCab is launching in the middle of a 120-day pilot project to test the merits of allowing ride-hailing companies and a largely deregulated taxi system within the city limits. Sure, a lot of people may hail an EcoCab for the chance to take a ride in a Tesla Model S, widely considered the best automobile on the road. (As someone who has taken the $100,000 Model S on a Northwest road trip, let me quote Ferris Bueller: It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.) But what happens when the novelty of riding in a Tesla wears off? From the outside, given the current challenges facing private for-hire transportation companies, it's hard to tell if EcoCab is being bold or foolhardy (or maybe a little of both). Leah Jones, general manager of Ecocab in Portland, sees nothing quixotic about the business endeavor. In fact, the company expects to achieve first-year revenues of about $2.1 million. Jones agreed to a quick a QA session with The Oregonian/OregonLive as she prepared EcoCab's dispatch and charging center on Northwest Yeon Avenue for the first day of operations. Let's get down to the nitty-gritty. How many vehicles will EcoCab have on the streets and what are the rates? Jones: We'll start with 15 electric vehicles (a mix of Teslas, Nissan Leafs and vans for serving riders with disabilities). We have different rates: $2.50 per pick up and $3.90 per mile, with 50 cents a minute for wait times and $1 per extra passenger. Taxi rates are deregulated right now, so I'm not sure how that compares to other companies. (By comparison, Radio Cab charges a $2.50 minimum, with $2.60 per mile, $1 for each extra passenger and $30 per hour for wait times. During non-peak periods, UberX's minimum fare is $5 with a base fare of $1.50, $1.55 per mile and a per-minute cost of 30 cents.) Would you pay a little more to take one of EcoCab's Tesla taxis? Yes. I can see myself hailing one on a regular basis. No. I'm more interested in saving green than going green. Yes. But I'd probably just hail one to see what it's like to ride in a Tesla Model S. Isn't this a crazy time to get in the taxi business in Portland? In fact, in the past few months, Uber overtook taxis as the most expensed form of ground transportation in the nation, according to a recent expense management system survey. All the signs say taxis are losing business. What makes you think you can compete in what has suddenly become a cutthroat market in Portland? Jones: We've been planning to start up in Portland for over a year, before we realized Uber would come into the picture. But I think EcoCab will really appeal to the progressive, eco-friendly consumer in Portland. We're all-electric, which is better for the environment. We have the Tesla Model S. We have beautiful, clean cars. We're also pulling away from the contractor aspect of cab drivers. EcoCab hires its drivers and pays them hourly wages plus benefits. There are many reasons to use our service and to support the company. Will EcoCab always have 15 vehicles on the road? Jones: No, they will have to be rotated out of the charging stations. We can charge up to seven cars at a time. The city's own studies have shown that Portland cab companies have a reputation for being unreliable, especially when there's high demand at night. With such a small fleet in service, how do you plan to avoid becoming another taxi company that can't meet demand? Jones: We're planning to add about five cars a month. We don't anticipate to be overwhelmed by business right away, but we will grow to meet demand. Also, I should point out that, like Uber, people can download and use the EcoCab app on their smartphones to hail a ride. We also have an easy
Re: [EVDL] Lead GC battery capacity
On 07/28/2015 06:30 AM, Willie2 wrote: Compare to 5 20ah ebike batteries @ $285. Total: $1425. Experience so far indicates as few as 2 20ah ebike batteries can be used at a cost of $570. Just checked Ping batteries, with an established good reputation: http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the-10/36V-20AH-LiFePO4-lithium/Detail $627 for 20ah. $3135 for five. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Lead GC battery capacity
Willie2 via EV wrote: Somewhat against my will, I just did some lead battery shopping. T105s are about $150. The minutes at 75 amps rating seems most appropriate. That would be just under 100 ah. From what you say, it appears those are usable amphours. SAMs batteries, with presumably less capacity and longevity, are about $90. So, a pack of six T105s would be about $900. So the T105 is $150/(6v x 75a x 1.75hr) = $0.19/wh. The Sam's Club is $80/(6v x 75a x 1.75hr) = $0.10/wh. Negatives: corrosion, watering, lower performance as SOC decreases, perhaps 1/3 the life of lithium, all or nothing major replacement. Life would be about 800 cycles for the Trojans, and about half that for the Sam's Club batteries (with a 75a load, discharged to 1.75v/cell, barring any abuse from over-charging, over-discharging, or incorrect watering). I'm not sure what your all or nothing replacement means. You can replace individual batteries if they fail early. Compare to 12 TS-LPF100s: about $1500 plus about $300 worth of BMS stuff. $1800/(12 x 3.2v x 100ah) = $0.47/wh. About 2.5 times the cost/watthour of the Trojans, or 5 times the price of the Sam's Club. They would have to last 2.5-5 times longer to reach the same cost/mile. I used 100ah; but I doubt you can get even 75ah out of them with a 75a load before the voltage falls under 2.5v/cell. I don't know how these particular Thunderskys would test; but the older 90ah Thunderskys I tested had significantly higher internal resistance than 6v golf cart batteries. They weren't good for 75a continuous / 500a peaks; but more like 25a continuous / 100a peaks. Negative: nightmare of wiring maintenance, all or nothing major replacement. If you have a good BMS you should be able to replace individual cells. Whether the BMS wiring is a nightmare depends on the situation. Compare to 5 20ah ebike batteries @ $285. Total: $1425. Experience so far indicates as few as 2 20ah ebike batteries can be used at a cost of $570. $1425/(5 x 36v x 20ah) = $0.40/wh. That's barely any cheaper than the Thunderskys. The longevity of ebike batteries is a BIG unknown here. Yes; you'd have to test to know for sure. I believe it is likely that the above can be scaled to larger vehicles. If the golf cart projects are successful, I will be exploring higher voltages and capacities on larger vehicles. One unknown is the internal resistance of these small cell packs. Some may be good; some horrible. Ebikes don't draw much current, but a golf cart does! I will not accept the contention that lithium batteries should be limited to 50%. OK; so that's your hypothesis. Now do the testing, and see if it's correct. As you say, these Ebike batteries aren't all that expensive. Buy one, and rig up a life tester. It would: - Discharge the battery with a load representative of what your actual load will be, until it reaches your desired dead cutoff voltage. - For lead-acids, 1.75v per cell under load is usually used. - For lithiums, there are no standards. Try 2.5v/cell as the cutoff. Or go lower if you think life won't be reduced by deeper discharges. - Charge the battery to whatever fully-charged criteria you expect to use in your application. - For lead-acids, full is typically when the current falls to 4% of its amphour rating at 2.5v/cell. - For lithiums, again there are no standards. Maybe use the free charger/BMS that comes with the Ping cells? Or for LiFePO4 cells, try 3.7v until the current falls under 4% of its rated AC capacity. - Let it cycle, until the capacity falls to some reasonable fraction of its original capacity. - For lead-acid, 80% of original capacity is usually used. You can obviously use them longer; but without a BMS, the capacity usually falls fast once some cell starts getting weak. - For lithiums, you can use the same 80% limit, or keep testing to see what happens if you use them longer. -- A truly excellent politician will tell you everything you want to hear. A truly excellent engineer will tell you the truth. -- D.C. Weber -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Lead GC battery capacity
You're comparing apples and oranges. Well, Robert, how so? I presented three golf cart packs, each offering about 100ah of usable capacity. Where did I go astray? The apples were 100 Ah comparisons. Then you changed to 40 Ah oranges, without going back and putting the apples on the same 40 Ah basis. - six T105s would be about $900. - 12 TS-LPF100s: about $1500 + $300 BMS - five 20ah ebike batteries @ $285. Total: $1425. - Experience... indicates two 20ah ebike batteries can do ($570.) Then also instead of six Trojans, 3 deep cycle 12v Lead batteries at a cost of $300 will also do the job. Will 3 12v supply 100ah? I would guess not. No, but three would provide 40 Ah which is what I thought was the comparison... Bob ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Lead GC battery capacity
On 07/28/2015 12:00 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: So the T105 is $150/(6v x 75a x 1.75hr) = $0.19/wh. The Sam's Club is $80/(6v x 75a x 1.75hr) = $0.10/wh. I didn't check SAMs' battery claims. I had assumed less capacity than T105s. I'm not sure what your all or nothing replacement means. You can replace individual batteries if they fail early. It is pretty tedious to identify and change either a single lithium cell or a lead battery. Also, if you have a bad lead battery or lithium cell, you are likely to be near the end of it's mates. I am impressed by how easy it is to add or replace ebike batteries. It is mainly a matter of dealing with parallel rather than serial connections. With serial, you break your pack to repair and you are down until you are finished with your repair. You must have an entire working pack to be functional. With parallel, you can likely make do with a single bad battery and do the replacement much faster. Plug and un-plug SB50s or similar. Compare to 12 TS-LPF100s: about $1500 plus about $300 worth of BMS stuff. $1800/(12 x 3.2v x 100ah) = $0.47/wh. About 2.5 times the cost/watthour of the Trojans, or 5 times the price of the Sam's Club. They would have to last 2.5-5 times longer to reach the same cost/mile. I used 100ah; but I doubt you can get even 75ah out of them with a 75a load before the voltage falls under 2.5v/cell. I don't know how these particular Thunderskys would test; but the older 90ah Thunderskys I tested had significantly higher internal resistance than 6v golf cart batteries. They weren't good for 75a continuous / 500a peaks; but more like 25a continuous / 100a peaks. I think you will find that more modern TSs are good for at least 2C. Negative: nightmare of wiring maintenance, all or nothing major replacement. If you have a good BMS you should be able to replace individual cells. Whether the BMS wiring is a nightmare depends on the situation. I've been dealing with TS-LFP packs with miniBMS modules for many years. I judge the whole thing to be a nightmare compared to the integrated BMS/protection of an ebike battery. $1425/(5 x 36v x 20ah) = $0.40/wh. That's barely any cheaper than the Thunderskys. The ebike batteries include integrated BMS/protection. Therefore, have the possibility of being far more reliable/maintainable. One unknown is the internal resistance of these small cell packs. Some may be good; some horrible. Ebikes don't draw much current, but a golf cart does! The 20ah ebike batteries are SUPPOSED to be good for 30 amps. I expected to need to use 3-5 in parallel. I was surprised to discover a golf cart seems to run fine with 2. With the 12xTS-LFP100 pack, I've observed a maximum 100-120 amps with non-alarming voltage sag. As mentioned, I do not yet have an amphour counter on a ebike battery golf cart. I will not accept the contention that lithium batteries should be limited to 50%. OK; so that's your hypothesis. Now do the testing, and see if it's correct. That is outside my job description. If you wish to test, I am willing to send you an ebike battery and one or two semi-good TS-LFP100s and/or TS-LFP260s. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Lead GC battery capacity
On 07/28/2015 07:41 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: You're comparing apples and oranges. Well, Robert, how so? I presented three golf cart packs, each offering about 100ah of usable capacity. Where did I go astray? - six T105s would be about $900. - 12 TS-LPF100s: about $1500 + $300 BMS - five 20ah ebike batteries @ $285. Total: $1425. - Experience... indicates two 20ah ebike batteries can do ($570.) Then also instead of six Trojans, 3 deep cycle 12v Lead batteries at a cost of $300 will also do the job. Will 3 12v supply 100ah? I would guess not. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Lead GC battery capacity
capacity is usually used. You can obviously use them longer; but without a BMS, the capacity usually falls fast once some cell starts getting weak. - For lithiums, you can use the same 80% limit, or keep testing to see what happens if you use them longer. -- A truly excellent politician will tell you everything you want to hear. A truly excellent engineer will tell you the truth. -- D.C. Weber -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.comhttp://www.sunrise-ev.com/ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usubhttp://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.orghttp://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRAhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150728/79f2db69/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
