GR space-time motion in the absence of gravity

[Alan Grayson]

In flat space, which is tantamount to assuming the absence of gravity, and 
non-zero curvature, a body placed at spatial coordinates x,y,z, will move 
because t increments. But if there is zero curvature, in which direction 
will it move? That is, how is the direction of motion determined? TIA, AG

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Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[Russell Standish]

On Sun, Aug 02, 2020 at 11:16:00AM +1000, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
> 
> I think we started congratulating ourselves too early. As you know, things are
> not so great in Victoria.

Indeed, we're not out of the woods yet.


-- 


Dr Russell StandishPhone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
  http://www.hpcoders.com.au


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Advancement of Mercury's perihelion

[Alan Grayson]

According to Wiki, the phenomenon is largely due to the other planets. 
See,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity . My 
question is this; is the advancement of the perihelion accompanied by 
raising the orbit of Mercury? AG

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Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[Stathis Papaioannou]

On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 at 09:16, Russell Standish  wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 07:42:28PM +, spudboy100 via Everything List
> wrote:
> > Yeah, I am sure the competent hand of Joe Biden will solve
> everything...   You
> > haven't cited what Germany and Australia are doing differently than the
> US
> > either. Can you please list what these lands are doing so well?
>
> I think in Australia's case, our "Trump mini-me" government finally
> grew a brain and listened to the health experts, after their total
> mishandling of the bushfire debacle over summer.
>
> It also helps that we're a little more likely accept restrictions for
> the sake of the common good than our American friends. Not as much as
> some Asian cultures, though.
>
> And finally, being an "island continent" makes it easier to shut our
> borders and control who comes into the country.


I think we started congratulating ourselves too early. As you know, things
are not so great in Victoria.

> --
Stathis Papaioannou

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Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Alan, just go ahead, and block me, for Christ's sake. You dish it out but can't 
take it, like the study indicated. Your peeps burn the streets and spread 
corona but that is ok? Meh! and Bye.


-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sat, Aug 1, 2020 8:19 pm
Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

GFY.

On Saturday, August 1, 2020 at 5:47:27 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:
Actually Alan, your comment proves what a study last year indicated, that 
dedicated ideologists (they measured libs) are immensely intolerant of any 
opposing pov, ao I kind of expected this because it goes against the holy 
"narrative." You want to pretend, Team dem is magically virtuous? Indeed, plow 
on ahead.  


-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sat, Aug 1, 2020 1:09 am
Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

I won't continue discussing politics with a right wing retard. If republicans 
in the Senate want to take the weekend off without dealing with the dire issues 
at hand, they deserve to see their courts burn. AG

On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 1:38:48 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:
Choke holds out are ok with me, now will the local dems cease and desist crime, 
murder & arson in their zones? Look to Lighfoot as an eample.


-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 9:48 pm
Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

If the republican Senate can't illegalize choke holds, maybe it's time to burn 
down a few federal courts to send a message. AG

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 4:40:38 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Its happening everywhere the democrats run the center cities, everywhere. Not 
just Chicago, or Detroit, but everywhere the dem klan rules. Team dem is good 
with fire and smoke, and perhaps unless your are involved with the DNC Planning 
Committee (?) the dems at governor and city level are doing what appeal to the 
democrat voter. Alinsky's Rule 6Rule 6: A good tactic is one your people enjoy. 
"If your people aren't having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong 
with the tactic."
Rule 8: Keep the pressure on. Use different tactics and actions and use all 
events of the period for your purpose. "The major premise for tactics is the 
development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the 
opposition. It is this that will cause the opposition to react to your 
advantage."
Orange Man didn't fall for the DNC Kent State/Jackson State replay of May 1970. 
Dude's quite calculating indeed!

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 4:21 pm
Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

You've been drinking the kool-aid. I've never heard one democratic politician 
advocating violence. Not one; never. Yet you claim to be a mind reader, by 
referencing radical Black Panthers of the 1960's as if that represents the BLM. 
Democrats know that violence will discredit the BLM movement. You want to do a 
broad-brush denigration of a righteous movement. There are always fringe 
elements that want violence, but it's people like you who buy Trump's BS and 
support depriving the vast majority of Americans their First Amendment rights, 
as what happened in Lafayette Square a few weeks ago. It was patently obvious 
that the unmarked police were inciting violence. I saw it as it was happening! 
If DiBlasio isn't doing enough in NYC to curtail violence, he should be called 
out for it. But this isn't what you're doing. Did it ever occur to you, that 
there would be less violence if the republicans in the Senate would pass a 
police reform bill, but they refuse even to outlaw the choke hold? Neither does 
Trump endorse it. AG
On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:47:24 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:
Alan, especially relying on mere words, over rational actions, (we're talking 
95% lawyers who are politicians here) we can see the policy is. It's a rehash 
of the Eldridge Cleaver's statement of "Burn Baby Burn!," circa 1965 Watts and 
Detroit "race: riots. I do remember LA 1992 Riot Fan and provocateur, Rep 
Maxine Waters, saying similar things last week. When Orange Man says things 
like "beautiful," I smile and nod because, just because we all were born upon a 
night, it wasn't last night. Not standing up to people (say, DiBlasio) 
arresting arsonists and looters on the spot, speaks intent, even, repeated 
across every democratic party zone (Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, NYC, 
Louisville, LA, Denver..etc). The kind of lying about intent was also seen 
60-70 years ago during the genuine civil rights marches and integration, Favus, 
George Wallace, oh, yes and democratic party KKK Kleagle, Senator Robert Byrd 
from West Virginia. If you need me to, I can look up some dem statements 
endorsing or sympathizing with rioters, looters, arsonists, and now terrorists 
(Smells like Weatherman Faction SDS, Symbionese Lib

Re: Sharpiegate

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Myself as well Jason. The pharmacy board appeared to be a political response 
here, rather than medical. If Hydro doesn't help it doesn't, and if it does it 
does. 

-Original Message-
From: Jason Resch 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Sat, Aug 1, 2020 5:36 pm
Subject: Re: Sharpiegate

I agree it is unfortunate that what should purely be a medical/risk management 
decision has become politicized.

Fortunately the Ohio's governor intervened to make the pharmacy board reversed 
their ban. Whether any particular treatment is effective or not, the decision 
must remain one made by the patient and their doctor, in my opinion.
Jason

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 3:52 PM  wrote:

Yeah Jason, it's shouldn't be about ideology, but results. However, human 
nature is what it is, and often "faith" overwhelms facts. If someone hates 
Orange Man enough, and see Covid as something secondary or tertiary, they won't 
care. Even Scott Adams (Dilbert) was vehemently contemptuous of 
Hydroxychloroquine as useless or damaging, and spoke against it as of three 
weeks ago. Adams, changed his opinion based on new studies. Adams is not a 
physician or a scientist but always uses their papers and voices in his 
analysis. 12 min video follows. Adams is big league in math and science, but 
was an investment banker as first background. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCRGYtMgn4c


-Original Message-
From: Jason Resch 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Fri, Jul 31, 2020 7:12 pm
Subject: Re: Sharpiegate

There have been 65 studies on HCQ. Of all the tests that looked at giving it 
early in the disease, or prophylactically, they showed HCQ was beneficial. This 
site summarizes them all: https://c19study.com/
The only studies that have shown HCQ to be ineffective are those where it is 
given late in the disease progression (when the disease shifts from the viral 
replication phase to an immune system dysregulation phase (see page 2)). Even 
then, 61% of studies have shown some effectiveness even when it is given late.
Given the well-established safety record of HCQ, this is the dilemma we face:

|  | HCQ works | HCQ doesn't work |
| HCQ widely dispensed | 10,000s of thousands of lives saved | $20 wasted per 
patient |
| HCQ use restricted | 10,000s of thousands of needless deaths | $0 wasted per 
patient |


Even in the face of impartial information on its effectiveness, the decision is 
clear.
Jason


On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 5:52 PM PGC  wrote:



On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 3:58:02 PM UTC+2, Bruno Marchal wrote:


On 30 Jul 2020, at 22:59, PGC  wrote:


On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 10:52:09 PM UTC+2 Brent wrote:

 
 
 On 7/30/2020 1:02 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
  
 Refute this Telmo- 
https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study 
  https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext 
  One viewer here indicated this was not a study-but it is a study indeed 
concluding the benefits of Hydro.  
  Now what do I think? If it works it works, and if it doesn't it doesn't.   
 
 That's just false.  Some things work on some infections in some people using 
some protocols of care.  


Agreed. Ongoing large scale international clinical trials are what they are. 
Nobody claims that they or the papers in their wake are perfect, but to pretend 
that a few tiny studies are "in need of refutation" or that the world's 
epidemiological community is orchestrating conspiracies without evidence like 
some on Twitter and on social media tend to peddle, is naive or evidence of the 
effectivity of disinformation, not evidence of effectivity of medication. 

OK in principle. But we can also look at the map of the evolution of the virus 
in country using it and not using it. My own country has used it, France has 
used it, then change its mind, a number of time.We can also take into account 
that the US FDA has lied about “not evidence of effectivity of cannabis” since 
about a century. It is only very recently that it has admit its effectivity for 
some disease in some public way (it accepted it more discreetly for some rich 
patients since long though).



But if Telmo and/or Mitch need, they can always get in touch with their closest 
epidemiologists/docs and ask for the data and emails, and inform the 
coordinating committee of their findings and worries, citing who they wish. 
While data of the majority of ongoing trials and appropriate epidemiological 
discourse may not be accessible on the net or published ("ongoing" being 
somewhat relevant...), it isn't classified or anything. PGC


I have done that a little bit, but it is hard to interpret. A biologist friend 
of mine seems to believe that the Canadian studies showing that 
Hydroxychoroquine is better than Remdesevir is rather serious. The amount of 
money hidden in the pharmaceutical debate is so big that the misinformation is 
perpetual. But you are right: it is not classified, and even just googling on 
the net s

Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[Alan Grayson]

GFY.

On Saturday, August 1, 2020 at 5:47:27 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Actually Alan, your comment proves what a study last year indicated, that 
> dedicated ideologists (they measured libs) are immensely intolerant of any 
> opposing pov, ao I kind of expected this because it goes against the holy 
> "narrative." You want to pretend, Team dem is magically virtuous? Indeed, 
> plow on ahead.  
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Grayson >
> To: Everything List >
> Sent: Sat, Aug 1, 2020 1:09 am
> Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election
>
> I won't continue discussing politics with a right wing retard. If 
> republicans in the Senate want to take the weekend off without dealing with 
> the dire issues at hand, they deserve to see their courts burn. AG
>
> On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 1:38:48 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Choke holds out are ok with me, now will the local dems cease and desist 
> crime, murder & arson in their zones? Look to Lighfoot as an eample.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Grayson 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 9:48 pm
> Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election
>
> If the republican Senate can't illegalize choke holds, maybe it's time to 
> burn down a few federal courts to send a message. AG
>
> On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 4:40:38 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Its happening everywhere the democrats run the center cities, everywhere. 
> Not just Chicago, or Detroit, but everywhere the dem klan rules. Team dem 
> is good with fire and smoke, and perhaps unless your are involved with the 
> DNC Planning Committee (?) the dems at governor and city level are doing 
> what appeal to the democrat voter.  
> Alinsky's Rule 6
> *Rule 6*: A good tactic is one your people enjoy. "If your people aren't 
> having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong with the tactic."
>
> *Rule 8*: Keep the pressure on. Use different tactics and actions and use 
> all events of the period for your purpose. "The major premise for tactics 
> is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure 
> upon the opposition. It is this that will cause the opposition to react to 
> your advantage."
>
> Orange Man didn't fall for the DNC Kent State/Jackson State replay of May 
> 1970. Dude's quite calculating indeed!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Grayson 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 4:21 pm
> Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election
>
> You've been drinking the kool-aid. I've never heard one democratic 
> politician advocating violence. Not one; never. Yet you claim to be a mind 
> reader, by referencing radical Black Panthers of the 1960's as if that 
> represents the BLM. Democrats know that violence will discredit the BLM 
> movement. You want to do a broad-brush denigration of a righteous movement. 
> There are always fringe elements that want violence, but it's people like 
> you who buy Trump's BS and support depriving the vast majority of Americans 
> their First Amendment rights, as what happened in Lafayette Square a few 
> weeks ago. It was patently obvious that the unmarked police were inciting 
> violence. I saw it as it was happening! If DiBlasio isn't doing enough in 
> NYC to curtail violence, he should be called out for it. But this isn't 
> what you're doing. Did it ever occur to you, that there would be less 
> violence if the republicans in the Senate would pass a police reform bill, 
> but they refuse even to outlaw the choke hold? Neither does Trump endorse 
> it. AG 
>
> On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:47:24 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Alan, especially relying on mere words, over rational actions, (we're 
> talking 95% lawyers who are politicians here) we can see the policy is. 
> It's a rehash of the Eldridge Cleaver's statement of "Burn Baby Burn!," 
> circa 1965 Watts and Detroit "race: riots. I do remember LA 1992 Riot Fan 
> and provocateur, Rep Maxine Waters, saying similar things last week. When 
> Orange Man says things like "beautiful," I smile and nod because, just 
> because we all were born upon a night, it wasn't last night. Not standing 
> up to people (say, DiBlasio) arresting arsonists and looters on the spot, 
> speaks intent, even, repeated across every democratic party zone (Portland, 
> Seattle, Minneapolis, NYC, Louisville, LA, Denver..etc). The kind of lying 
> about intent was also seen 60-70 years ago during the genuine civil rights 
> marches and integration, Favus, George Wallace, oh, yes and democratic 
> party KKK Kleagle, Senator Robert Byrd from West Virginia. If you need me 
> to, I can look up some dem statements endorsing or sympathizing with 
> rioters, looters, arsonists, and now terrorists (Smells like Weatherman 
> Faction SDS, Symbionese Liberation Army revived, also Black Panthers). I do 
> wonder what Bruno will think when we start breaking apart? Will he have 
> expected this, from such "craz

Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

One chunk of assertions at a a time, Bruno, for you are dealing with a mere 
mortal, and a working one, this night. On the love-affair that many Muslims 
have with the old nazis, yeah, they liked the guy as we both know. It was a 
selling point by the 3rd Reich against the British and French ruling Iraq, 
Syria, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Tunisia (Mussolini held Libya), and they both 
worked it as successful propaganda."No more Moussier, No more Mister,In heaven 
AllahOn earth, Hitler."
Back to The orange man
We have most of the billionaires funding the democrats for decades, do you not 
wonder if these people do not ask for something in return? If you need a list 
of each side funding whom, please consider looking at the website 
OpenSecrets.org, it appears to be non-partisan, but who knows. Follow the 
money, Professor.  


-Original Message-
From: Bruno Marchal 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, Aug 1, 2020 8:25 am
Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election



On 31 Jul 2020, at 21:50, spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote:
No they haven't Bruno. Dems are closed mouthed regarding riots looting arson. 
It is all happening in their cities, it it tolerated, at least, if not 
endorsed. 


Really? That contradicts my information. If you have a link to some paper or 
videos assessing what you say, I would be pleased.
What I see is that the democrats and most (non Trumpian) republicans sids with 
the peaceful protesters. All states condemned the looters, but they are 
unavoidable in any big manifestation, also in my country, and even more in 
France. 
My feeling is that those looters are pro-Trump, or pro-chaos, and they try to 
delegitimised, like the antiracists (which are racists of course), the" black 
live matter” movement, by looting and infiltrating them.
Concerning Portland, the “police” has clearly systematically threatened and 
egressed the peaceful people, as we can see on many videos, from different 
angles, and at different places. 
Trump has given 8 recent phones by Putin, and he is clearly trying to demolish 
the (old) American democracy by the same technic used by Putin to kill the 
birth of democracy in Russia. That is real bad new for Americans, but also for 
Russians and for all democracies in the world.
Everyone sees what Trump is doing. The problem is the international bandits, 
who use Trump to protect themselves, and fix people realise how powerful they 
are. If Trump and Barr are not removed before November, he will “win” the 
election, by cheating of course, like he did, as this is rather clear from 
Mueller reports if not by what Trump already said himself during its 2016 
campaign.
Bruno



All democrats politicians have condemned the violence in the street. In 
Portland we have seen many videos showing that “police” attacked the peaceful 
protesters, and provoked them. It was an operation of the type “adding oil on 
the fire”.The very look of that “police”, and the way they acted is quite 
worrisome. Doubly so when it comes from a guy who has been mean with almost all 
leaders of a democracy, and never about Putin, MBS (Saudi), Young, … Trump is 
fighting against the Democracies and against the US constitution.



-Original Message-
From: Bruno Marchal 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, Jul 31, 2020 7:52 am
Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election



On 30 Jul 2020, at 20:33, spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote:
Eh! Derangement syndrome again. Yet, its democrat politicians encouraging the 
Vanguard of the Proletariat to burn and loot your center cities, to say, damage 
the economy, so orange man won't be elected.

?
All democrats politicians have condemned the violence in the street. In 
Portland we have seen many videos showing that “police” attacked the peaceful 
protesters, and provoked them. It was an operation of the type “adding oil on 
the fire”.The very look of that “police”, and the way they acted is quite 
worrisome. Doubly so when it comes from a guy who has been mean with almost all 
leaders of a democracy, and never about Putin, MBS (Saudi), Young, … Trump is 
fighting against the Democracies and against the US constitution.




 There is strong evidence of mail ballots mysteriously gone missing, so I doubt 
if the members of the postal union can be trusted to deliver ballots.

They should use e-mails. That is the safer, both for the health of people, and 
it is easier to make most people voting, and voting only once. I am not sure 
why they don’t do that.




 What I suspect is that beyond legal challenges that are sure to occur, 
whomever appears to win. Thus, what was the US will descend into open civil 
conflict. It's not about the orange real estate dude, it's about the rest of 
us. For instance, I am not a social conservative at all. I hold that your Alcor 
bet might be a smart one, or that your estimation that humanity  will cause the 
development of Matrioshka brains, eventually, accurate. As of n

Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Actually Alan, your comment proves what a study last year indicated, that 
dedicated ideologists (they measured libs) are immensely intolerant of any 
opposing pov, ao I kind of expected this because it goes against the holy 
"narrative." You want to pretend, Team dem is magically virtuous? Indeed, plow 
on ahead.  


-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sat, Aug 1, 2020 1:09 am
Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

I won't continue discussing politics with a right wing retard. If republicans 
in the Senate want to take the weekend off without dealing with the dire issues 
at hand, they deserve to see their courts burn. AG

On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 1:38:48 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:
Choke holds out are ok with me, now will the local dems cease and desist crime, 
murder & arson in their zones? Look to Lighfoot as an eample.


-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 9:48 pm
Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

If the republican Senate can't illegalize choke holds, maybe it's time to burn 
down a few federal courts to send a message. AG

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 4:40:38 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Its happening everywhere the democrats run the center cities, everywhere. Not 
just Chicago, or Detroit, but everywhere the dem klan rules. Team dem is good 
with fire and smoke, and perhaps unless your are involved with the DNC Planning 
Committee (?) the dems at governor and city level are doing what appeal to the 
democrat voter. Alinsky's Rule 6Rule 6: A good tactic is one your people enjoy. 
"If your people aren't having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong 
with the tactic."
Rule 8: Keep the pressure on. Use different tactics and actions and use all 
events of the period for your purpose. "The major premise for tactics is the 
development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the 
opposition. It is this that will cause the opposition to react to your 
advantage."
Orange Man didn't fall for the DNC Kent State/Jackson State replay of May 1970. 
Dude's quite calculating indeed!

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 4:21 pm
Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

You've been drinking the kool-aid. I've never heard one democratic politician 
advocating violence. Not one; never. Yet you claim to be a mind reader, by 
referencing radical Black Panthers of the 1960's as if that represents the BLM. 
Democrats know that violence will discredit the BLM movement. You want to do a 
broad-brush denigration of a righteous movement. There are always fringe 
elements that want violence, but it's people like you who buy Trump's BS and 
support depriving the vast majority of Americans their First Amendment rights, 
as what happened in Lafayette Square a few weeks ago. It was patently obvious 
that the unmarked police were inciting violence. I saw it as it was happening! 
If DiBlasio isn't doing enough in NYC to curtail violence, he should be called 
out for it. But this isn't what you're doing. Did it ever occur to you, that 
there would be less violence if the republicans in the Senate would pass a 
police reform bill, but they refuse even to outlaw the choke hold? Neither does 
Trump endorse it. AG
On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:47:24 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:
Alan, especially relying on mere words, over rational actions, (we're talking 
95% lawyers who are politicians here) we can see the policy is. It's a rehash 
of the Eldridge Cleaver's statement of "Burn Baby Burn!," circa 1965 Watts and 
Detroit "race: riots. I do remember LA 1992 Riot Fan and provocateur, Rep 
Maxine Waters, saying similar things last week. When Orange Man says things 
like "beautiful," I smile and nod because, just because we all were born upon a 
night, it wasn't last night. Not standing up to people (say, DiBlasio) 
arresting arsonists and looters on the spot, speaks intent, even, repeated 
across every democratic party zone (Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, NYC, 
Louisville, LA, Denver..etc). The kind of lying about intent was also seen 
60-70 years ago during the genuine civil rights marches and integration, Favus, 
George Wallace, oh, yes and democratic party KKK Kleagle, Senator Robert Byrd 
from West Virginia. If you need me to, I can look up some dem statements 
endorsing or sympathizing with rioters, looters, arsonists, and now terrorists 
(Smells like Weatherman Faction SDS, Symbionese Liberation Army revived, also 
Black Panthers). I do wonder what Bruno will think when we start breaking 
apart? Will he have expected this, from such "crazy Ami's," or will it be a 
shock? Interesting, huh?
-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 2:53 pm
Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

Strong evidence? What is it? Which democrat politicians are encourag

Re: Sharpiegate

[Jason Resch]

I agree it is unfortunate that what should purely be a medical/risk
management decision has become politicized.

Fortunately the Ohio's governor intervened to make the pharmacy board reversed
their ban
.
Whether any particular treatment is effective or not, the decision must
remain one made by the patient and their doctor, in my opinion.

Jason

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 3:52 PM  wrote:

> Yeah Jason, it's shouldn't be about ideology, but results. However, human
> nature is what it is, and often "faith" overwhelms facts. If someone hates
> Orange Man enough, and see Covid as something secondary or tertiary, they
> won't care. Even Scott Adams (Dilbert) was vehemently contemptuous of
> Hydroxychloroquine as useless or damaging, and spoke against it as of three
> weeks ago. Adams, changed his opinion based on new studies. Adams is not a
> physician or a scientist but always uses their papers and voices in his
> analysis. 12 min video follows. Adams is big league in math and science,
> but was an investment banker as first background.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCRGYtMgn4c
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jason Resch 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Fri, Jul 31, 2020 7:12 pm
> Subject: Re: Sharpiegate
>
> There have been 65 studies on HCQ. Of all the tests that looked at giving
> it early in the disease, or prophylactically, they showed HCQ was
> beneficial. This site summarizes them all: https://c19study.com/
>
> The only studies that have shown HCQ to be ineffective are those where it
> is given late in the disease progression (when the disease shifts from the 
> viral
> replication phase to an immune system dysregulation phase
> 
> (see page 2)). Even then, 61% of studies have shown some effectiveness even
> when it is given late.
>
> Given the well-established safety
> 
> record of HCQ, this is the dilemma we face:
>
> HCQ works HCQ doesn't work
> HCQ widely dispensed 10,000s of thousands of lives saved $20 wasted per
> patient
> HCQ use restricted 10,000s of thousands of needless deaths $0 wasted per
> patient
>
> Even in the face of impartial information on its effectiveness, the
> decision is clear.
>
> Jason
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 5:52 PM PGC  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 3:58:02 PM UTC+2, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
>
> On 30 Jul 2020, at 22:59, PGC  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 10:52:09 PM UTC+2 Brent wrote:
>
>
>
> On 7/30/2020 1:02 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
>
> Refute this Telmo-
> https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study
>
> https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext
>
> One viewer here indicated this was not a study-but it is a study indeed
> concluding the benefits of Hydro.
>
> Now what do I think? If it works it works, and if it doesn't it doesn't.
>
>
> That's just false.  Some things work on some infections in some people
> using some protocols of care.
>
>
> Agreed. Ongoing large scale international clinical trials are what they
> are. Nobody claims that they or the papers in their wake are perfect, but
> to pretend that a few tiny studies are "in need of refutation" or that the
> world's epidemiological community is orchestrating conspiracies without
> evidence like some on Twitter and on social media tend to peddle, is naive
> or evidence of the effectivity of disinformation, *not evidence of
> effectivity of medication*.
>
>
> OK in principle. But we can also look at the map of the evolution of the
> virus in country using it and not using it. My own country has used it,
> France has used it, then change its mind, a number of time.
> We can also take into account that the US FDA has lied about “not evidence
> of effectivity of cannabis” since about a century. It is only very recently
> that it has admit its effectivity for some disease in some public way (it
> accepted it more discreetly for some rich patients since long though).
>
>
>
> But if Telmo and/or Mitch need, they can always get in touch with their
> closest epidemiologists/docs and ask for the data and emails, and inform
> the coordinating committee of their findings and worries, citing who they
> wish. While data of the majority of ongoing trials and appropriate
> epidemiological discourse may not be accessible on the net or published
> ("ongoing" being somewhat relevant...), it isn't classified or anything. PGC
>
>
>
> I have done that a little bit, but it is hard to interpret. A biologist
> friend of mine seems to believe that the Canadian studies showing that
> Hydroxychoroquine is better than Remdesevir is rather serious. The amount
> of money hidden in the pharmaceutical debate is so big that the
> misinformatio

Re: Sharpiegate

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Yeah Jason, it's shouldn't be about ideology, but results. However, human 
nature is what it is, and often "faith" overwhelms facts. If someone hates 
Orange Man enough, and see Covid as something secondary or tertiary, they won't 
care. Even Scott Adams (Dilbert) was vehemently contemptuous of 
Hydroxychloroquine as useless or damaging, and spoke against it as of three 
weeks ago. Adams, changed his opinion based on new studies. Adams is not a 
physician or a scientist but always uses their papers and voices in his 
analysis. 12 min video follows. Adams is big league in math and science, but 
was an investment banker as first background. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCRGYtMgn4c


-Original Message-
From: Jason Resch 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Fri, Jul 31, 2020 7:12 pm
Subject: Re: Sharpiegate

There have been 65 studies on HCQ. Of all the tests that looked at giving it 
early in the disease, or prophylactically, they showed HCQ was beneficial. This 
site summarizes them all: https://c19study.com/
The only studies that have shown HCQ to be ineffective are those where it is 
given late in the disease progression (when the disease shifts from the viral 
replication phase to an immune system dysregulation phase (see page 2)). Even 
then, 61% of studies have shown some effectiveness even when it is given late.
Given the well-established safety record of HCQ, this is the dilemma we face:

|  | HCQ works | HCQ doesn't work |
| HCQ widely dispensed | 10,000s of thousands of lives saved | $20 wasted per 
patient |
| HCQ use restricted | 10,000s of thousands of needless deaths | $0 wasted per 
patient |


Even in the face of impartial information on its effectiveness, the decision is 
clear.
Jason


On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 5:52 PM PGC  wrote:



On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 3:58:02 PM UTC+2, Bruno Marchal wrote:


On 30 Jul 2020, at 22:59, PGC  wrote:


On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 10:52:09 PM UTC+2 Brent wrote:

 
 
 On 7/30/2020 1:02 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
  
 Refute this Telmo- 
https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study 
  https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext 
  One viewer here indicated this was not a study-but it is a study indeed 
concluding the benefits of Hydro.  
  Now what do I think? If it works it works, and if it doesn't it doesn't.   
 
 That's just false.  Some things work on some infections in some people using 
some protocols of care.  


Agreed. Ongoing large scale international clinical trials are what they are. 
Nobody claims that they or the papers in their wake are perfect, but to pretend 
that a few tiny studies are "in need of refutation" or that the world's 
epidemiological community is orchestrating conspiracies without evidence like 
some on Twitter and on social media tend to peddle, is naive or evidence of the 
effectivity of disinformation, not evidence of effectivity of medication. 

OK in principle. But we can also look at the map of the evolution of the virus 
in country using it and not using it. My own country has used it, France has 
used it, then change its mind, a number of time.We can also take into account 
that the US FDA has lied about “not evidence of effectivity of cannabis” since 
about a century. It is only very recently that it has admit its effectivity for 
some disease in some public way (it accepted it more discreetly for some rich 
patients since long though).



But if Telmo and/or Mitch need, they can always get in touch with their closest 
epidemiologists/docs and ask for the data and emails, and inform the 
coordinating committee of their findings and worries, citing who they wish. 
While data of the majority of ongoing trials and appropriate epidemiological 
discourse may not be accessible on the net or published ("ongoing" being 
somewhat relevant...), it isn't classified or anything. PGC


I have done that a little bit, but it is hard to interpret. A biologist friend 
of mine seems to believe that the Canadian studies showing that 
Hydroxychoroquine is better than Remdesevir is rather serious. The amount of 
money hidden in the pharmaceutical debate is so big that the misinformation is 
perpetual. But you are right: it is not classified, and even just googling on 
the net shows that hydroxychloroquine, when used convenably, *might* be better 
than some other medication, and perhaps cannabis is still better (as more and 
more studies seem to show).

If you, Mitch, Telmo, your biologist friend, or Trump have data concerning 
effectiveness of HCQ with significant sample sizes in randomized 
placebo-controlled trials, and can demonstrate that said trials are free of 
epidemiologists' long lists of possible issues/bias, then the only thing 
stopping you guys from stepping forward and making world history as 
non-professionals is your own minds. PGC


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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group

Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Russell, your fellow academics tell us different, often conflicting things, 
regarding the Wuhan flu, regarding Climate? For example, the WHO first 
indicated that masking won't deter the Wuhan flu, then it became apparent, that 
it appeared to reduce transmissions of the virus. When the experts fail us, 
what do you want Joe Sixpack to do (you do have joe sixpack in Aus don't you)? 
When you were having the Big Fire, I was thinking, well, there was a big study 
if the IEA is Oct 1, 2019 that indicated there was available, some 18 times the 
2018 global production of all kinds of energy electrical & motive, in ocean 
water "winds," so why not use this to desalinate the ocean water (wind power) 
push it to the Aus brush and treelands, and spritz the waters to prevent the 
firestorms? We have same issue in Cali and the cheapest solution was always 
clear cutting patches of brush and forest, thus, new fires were prevented. The 
greens in Cali have avoided this for over 20 years and so far, they now have 
firestorms, once of twice per year. If hydro works it works, and if it doesn't 
it doesn't. The best results for hydro have been, hydro to make the affected 
cells permeable, use zinc to get it into the cells because the zinc prevents 
the virus from propagating, and zythromax, to fight any secondary bacterial 
opportunistic inventions, If it doesn't work, whether Orange Man throws a 
tantrum, nobody should care. If he is accurate, same thing. 


-Original Message-
From: Russell Standish 
To: spudboy100 via Everything List 
Cc: johnkcl...@gmail.com 
Sent: Fri, Jul 31, 2020 7:16 pm
Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 07:42:28PM +, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
> Yeah, I am sure the competent hand of Joe Biden will solve everything...  You
> haven't cited what Germany and Australia are doing differently than the US
> either. Can you please list what these lands are doing so well?  

I think in Australia's case, our "Trump mini-me" government finally
grew a brain and listened to the health experts, after their total
mishandling of the bushfire debacle over summer.

It also helps that we're a little more likely accept restrictions for
the sake of the common good than our American friends. Not as much as
some Asian cultures, though.

And finally, being an "island continent" makes it easier to shut our
borders and control who comes into the country.

Cheers
-- 


Dr Russell Standish                    Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders    hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
                      http://www.hpcoders.com.au


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Re: Sharpiegate

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Your people didn't try it with zinc (long time respiratory treatment) which was 
the Zelenko method. I don't care about whether the Donald (new term for the 
American leader), approves or not, but rather does the trio of hydro + zinc + 
arithro work together to rapidly alleviate symptoms that cause mortality? If 
anything else works, faster please. The opposition to hydro is driven by 
ideology, and never medical science. Sans, zinc, hydro may be useless. Because 
my enemy built and used MP-40 submachine guns, would not cause me from using 
one, as needed. 


-Original Message-
From: PGC 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Fri, Jul 31, 2020 6:52 pm
Subject: Re: Sharpiegate



On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 3:58:02 PM UTC+2, Bruno Marchal wrote:


On 30 Jul 2020, at 22:59, PGC  wrote:


On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 10:52:09 PM UTC+2 Brent wrote:

 
 
 On 7/30/2020 1:02 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
  
 Refute this Telmo- https://www.henryford.com/ news/2020/07/hydro-treatment- 
study 
  https://www.ijidonline.com/ article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/ fulltext 
  One viewer here indicated this was not a study-but it is a study indeed 
concluding the benefits of Hydro.  
  Now what do I think? If it works it works, and if it doesn't it doesn't.   
 
 That's just false.  Some things work on some infections in some people using 
some protocols of care.  


Agreed. Ongoing large scale international clinical trials are what they are. 
Nobody claims that they or the papers in their wake are perfect, but to pretend 
that a few tiny studies are "in need of refutation" or that the world's 
epidemiological community is orchestrating conspiracies without evidence like 
some on Twitter and on social media tend to peddle, is naive or evidence of the 
effectivity of disinformation, not evidence of effectivity of medication. 

OK in principle. But we can also look at the map of the evolution of the virus 
in country using it and not using it. My own country has used it, France has 
used it, then change its mind, a number of time.We can also take into account 
that the US FDA has lied about “not evidence of effectivity of cannabis” since 
about a century. It is only very recently that it has admit its effectivity for 
some disease in some public way (it accepted it more discreetly for some rich 
patients since long though).



But if Telmo and/or Mitch need, they can always get in touch with their closest 
epidemiologists/docs and ask for the data and emails, and inform the 
coordinating committee of their findings and worries, citing who they wish. 
While data of the majority of ongoing trials and appropriate epidemiological 
discourse may not be accessible on the net or published ("ongoing" being 
somewhat relevant...), it isn't classified or anything. PGC


I have done that a little bit, but it is hard to interpret. A biologist friend 
of mine seems to believe that the Canadian studies showing that 
Hydroxychoroquine is better than Remdesevir is rather serious. The amount of 
money hidden in the pharmaceutical debate is so big that the misinformation is 
perpetual. But you are right: it is not classified, and even just googling on 
the net shows that hydroxychloroquine, when used convenably, *might* be better 
than some other medication, and perhaps cannabis is still better (as more and 
more studies seem to show).

If you, Mitch, Telmo, your biologist friend, or Trump have data concerning 
effectiveness of HCQ with significant sample sizes in randomized 
placebo-controlled trials, and can demonstrate that said trials are free of 
epidemiologists' long lists of possible issues/bias, then the only thing 
stopping you guys from stepping forward and making world history as 
non-professionals is your own minds. PGC


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Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[Lawrence Crowell]

At a certain point people display how their minds have, as Robert Burns put 
it, gone "gang oft aglay." Political diatribes, with claims of sources not 
revealed, and defense of questionable science and health theory, leave me 
no option but to drop such a person from communication. I don't go there, 
even in opposition to these types of people.

LC

On Saturday, August 1, 2020 at 7:25:06 AM UTC-5 Bruno Marchal wrote:

> On 31 Jul 2020, at 21:50, spudboy100 via Everything List <
> everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> No they haven't Bruno. Dems are closed mouthed regarding riots looting 
> arson. It is all happening in their cities, it it tolerated, at least, if 
> not endorsed. 
>
>
> Really? That contradicts my information. If you have a link to some paper 
> or videos assessing what you say, I would be pleased.
>
> What I see is that the democrats and most (non Trumpian) republicans sids 
> with the peaceful protesters. All states condemned the looters, but they 
> are unavoidable in any big manifestation, also in my country, and even more 
> in France. 
>
> My feeling is that those looters are pro-Trump, or pro-chaos, and they try 
> to delegitimised, like the antiracists (which are racists of course), the" 
> black live matter” movement, by looting and infiltrating them.
>
> Concerning Portland, the “police” has clearly systematically threatened 
> and egressed the peaceful people, as we can see on many videos, from 
> different angles, and at different places. 
>
> Trump has given 8 recent phones by Putin, and he is clearly trying to 
> demolish the (old) American democracy by the same technic used by Putin to 
> kill the birth of democracy in Russia. That is real bad new for Americans, 
> but also for Russians and for all democracies in the world.
>
> Everyone sees what Trump is doing. The problem is the international 
> bandits, who use Trump to protect themselves, and fix people realise how 
> powerful they are. If Trump and Barr are not removed before November, he 
> will “win” the election, by cheating of course, like he did, as this is 
> rather clear from Mueller reports if not by what Trump already said himself 
> during its 2016 campaign.
>
> Bruno
>
>
> All democrats politicians have condemned the violence in the street. In 
> Portland we have seen many videos showing that “police” attacked the 
> peaceful protesters, and provoked them. It was an operation of the type 
> “adding oil on the fire”.
> The very look of that “police”, and the way they acted is quite worrisome. 
> Doubly so when it comes from a guy who has been mean with almost all 
> leaders of a democracy, and never about Putin, MBS (Saudi), Young, … Trump 
> is fighting against the Democracies and against the US constitution.
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Bruno Marchal 
> To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Fri, Jul 31, 2020 7:52 am
> Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election
>
>
> On 30 Jul 2020, at 20:33, spudboy100 via Everything List <
> everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Eh! Derangement syndrome again. Yet, its democrat politicians encouraging 
> the Vanguard of the Proletariat to burn and loot your center cities, to 
> say, damage the economy, so orange man won't be elected.
>
>
> ?
>
> All democrats politicians have condemned the violence in the street. In 
> Portland we have seen many videos showing that “police” attacked the 
> peaceful protesters, and provoked them. It was an operation of the type 
> “adding oil on the fire”.
> The very look of that “police”, and the way they acted is quite worrisome. 
> Doubly so when it comes from a guy who has been mean with almost all 
> leaders of a democracy, and never about Putin, MBS (Saudi), Young, … Trump 
> is fighting against the Democracies and against the US constitution.
>
>
>
>
> There is strong evidence of mail ballots mysteriously gone missing, so I 
> doubt if the members of the postal union can be trusted to deliver ballots.
>
>
> They should use e-mails. That is the safer, both for the health of people, 
> and it is easier to make most people voting, and voting only once. I am not 
> sure why they don’t do that.
>
>
>
>
> What I suspect is that beyond legal challenges that are sure to occur, 
> whomever appears to win. Thus, what was the US will descend into open civil 
> conflict. It's not about the orange real estate dude, it's about the rest 
> of us. For instance, I am not a social conservative at all. I hold that 
> your Alcor bet might be a smart one, or that your estimation that humanity  
> will cause the development of Matrioshka brains, eventually, accurate. As 
> of now, the Vanguard Proles are causing discouragement with the archetypal 
> Hillary voter (2016) and causing a drop out for Biden, (Kamala) because 
> they really don't wish BLM-Antifa governance. Since the police pulled out 
> of the Millwaukee convention, I suspect that NOI's Fruit of Islam will do 
> the policing there. Call it  a precursor. 
>
>
> I agr

Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[Bruno Marchal]

> On 31 Jul 2020, at 21:50, spudboy100 via Everything List 
>  wrote:
> 
> No they haven't Bruno. Dems are closed mouthed regarding riots looting arson. 
> It is all happening in their cities, it it tolerated, at least, if not 
> endorsed. 

Really? That contradicts my information. If you have a link to some paper or 
videos assessing what you say, I would be pleased.

What I see is that the democrats and most (non Trumpian) republicans sids with 
the peaceful protesters. All states condemned the looters, but they are 
unavoidable in any big manifestation, also in my country, and even more in 
France. 

My feeling is that those looters are pro-Trump, or pro-chaos, and they try to 
delegitimised, like the antiracists (which are racists of course), the" black 
live matter” movement, by looting and infiltrating them.

Concerning Portland, the “police” has clearly systematically threatened and 
egressed the peaceful people, as we can see on many videos, from different 
angles, and at different places. 

Trump has given 8 recent phones by Putin, and he is clearly trying to demolish 
the (old) American democracy by the same technic used by Putin to kill the 
birth of democracy in Russia. That is real bad new for Americans, but also for 
Russians and for all democracies in the world.

Everyone sees what Trump is doing. The problem is the international bandits, 
who use Trump to protect themselves, and fix people realise how powerful they 
are. If Trump and Barr are not removed before November, he will “win” the 
election, by cheating of course, like he did, as this is rather clear from 
Mueller reports if not by what Trump already said himself during its 2016 
campaign.

Bruno


> All democrats politicians have condemned the violence in the street. In 
> Portland we have seen many videos showing that “police” attacked the peaceful 
> protesters, and provoked them. It was an operation of the type “adding oil on 
> the fire”.
> The very look of that “police”, and the way they acted is quite worrisome. 
> Doubly so when it comes from a guy who has been mean with almost all leaders 
> of a democracy, and never about Putin, MBS (Saudi), Young, … Trump is 
> fighting against the Democracies and against the US constitution.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Bruno Marchal 
> To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Fri, Jul 31, 2020 7:52 am
> Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election
> 
> 
>> On 30 Jul 2020, at 20:33, spudboy100 via Everything List 
>> mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Eh! Derangement syndrome again. Yet, its democrat politicians encouraging 
>> the Vanguard of the Proletariat to burn and loot your center cities, to say, 
>> damage the economy, so orange man won't be elected.
> 
> ?
> 
> All democrats politicians have condemned the violence in the street. In 
> Portland we have seen many videos showing that “police” attacked the peaceful 
> protesters, and provoked them. It was an operation of the type “adding oil on 
> the fire”.
> The very look of that “police”, and the way they acted is quite worrisome. 
> Doubly so when it comes from a guy who has been mean with almost all leaders 
> of a democracy, and never about Putin, MBS (Saudi), Young, … Trump is 
> fighting against the Democracies and against the US constitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> There is strong evidence of mail ballots mysteriously gone missing, so I 
>> doubt if the members of the postal union can be trusted to deliver ballots.
> 
> They should use e-mails. That is the safer, both for the health of people, 
> and it is easier to make most people voting, and voting only once. I am not 
> sure why they don’t do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> What I suspect is that beyond legal challenges that are sure to occur, 
>> whomever appears to win. Thus, what was the US will descend into open civil 
>> conflict. It's not about the orange real estate dude, it's about the rest of 
>> us. For instance, I am not a social conservative at all. I hold that your 
>> Alcor bet might be a smart one, or that your estimation that humanity  will 
>> cause the development of Matrioshka brains, eventually, accurate. As of now, 
>> the Vanguard Proles are causing discouragement with the archetypal Hillary 
>> voter (2016) and causing a drop out for Biden, (Kamala) because they really 
>> don't wish BLM-Antifa governance. Since the police pulled out of the 
>> Millwaukee convention, I suspect that NOI's Fruit of Islam will do the 
>> policing there. Call it  a precursor. 
> 
> I agree that the left is blind on “islamism” coming from the Middle East, 
> which is not islam, but comes directly from the German nazi propaganda, and 
> the fact the Europeans and Americans after the WW II have subtracted Al 
> Husseini and the Muslim Brotherhood from the Nuremberg trial. 
> The conflict in the Middle-East is a conflict agains nazis, not again Islam 
> nor again Arabs. Here the left is very often blind, and more homophobia, 
> antisemite,

Re: Sharpiegate

[Lawrence Crowell]

On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 6:12:49 PM UTC-5 Jason wrote:

> There have been 65 studies on HCQ. Of all the tests that looked at giving 
> it early in the disease, or prophylactically, they showed HCQ was 
> beneficial. This site summarizes them all: https://c19study.com/
>
> The only studies that have shown HCQ to be ineffective are those where it 
> is given late in the disease progression (when the disease shifts from the 
> viral 
> replication phase to an immune system dysregulation phase 
> 
>  
> (see page 2)). Even then, 61% of studies have shown some effectiveness even 
> when it is given late.
>
> Given the well-established safety 
>  
> record of HCQ, this is the dilemma we face:
>
> HCQ works HCQ doesn't work
> HCQ widely dispensed 10,000s of thousands of lives saved $20 wasted per 
> patient
> HCQ use restricted 10,000s of thousands of needless deaths $0 wasted per 
> patient
>
> Even in the face of impartial information on its effectiveness, the 
> decision is clear.
>
> Jason
>

Most drug trials and studies of this sort do not assert a counterfactual 
claim of this sort. 

LC

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