Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
Adam Miller wrote: > But none of that really matters, and I do see your point that we would > essentially run into a similar situation from a marketing standpoint Huh? If you follow the thread, I didn't really make that point at all! I just said made a semi-serious remark about how having a desktop environment with the same first letter as another would be a problem for Ubuntu as well. That said, I do agree that having our spins presented as separate projects is not the way to go. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: > That said, Kubuntu and Xubuntu aren't really completely separate either, > they're just marketed as such. They're really just spins from the same > repository. The way they're marketed as "separate" is really silly. They are actually separate development teams unless something changed since I left the Xubuntu project a few years ago. It was always that the projects were disjoint and the project leads were really the main line of communication between the separate projects (which makes zero sense to me). But none of that really matters, and I do see your point that we would essentially run into a similar situation from a marketing standpoint and I agree it is best left to the way it is with full identification of the Spins and their purpose. -Adam -- http://maxamillion.googlepages.com - () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
Adam Miller wrote: > That's actually a little different, Kubutu and Xubuntu are considered > completely separate distributions from within the Ubuntu community. That wasn't really my point (it was about their use of just one letter for each desktop environment), but... > They all have disjoint development teams (though *some* do cross > distros in their development efforts) really the only thing they share > is a package repository, but so do distros like Mint. > > This is an aspect of Fedora that I really like, I always felt it > foolish to have a different distro for each Desktop Environment. ... +1. :-) That said, Kubuntu and Xubuntu aren't really completely separate either, they're just marketed as such. They're really just spins from the same repository. The way they're marketed as "separate" is really silly. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
Ville Skyttä wrote: > Sure it does get "exported", kind of, but at least some parsing is > required and there are cross browser issues; see navigator.platform, > navigator.oscpu and/or navigator.userAgent. Anyway, as others have > already noted, the usefulness of that info for the above purpose is very > much questionable. And many people who aren't using GNU/Linux yet will be running 32-bit Window$ on their 64-bit CPU, so it'll report 32-bit. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On Tuesday 30 June 2009, drago01 wrote: > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Richard June wrote: > > Does archetecture get exported anywhere by javascript? > > If so, it would provide a simple way to query the users' hardware. > > No. Sure it does get "exported", kind of, but at least some parsing is required and there are cross browser issues; see navigator.platform, navigator.oscpu and/or navigator.userAgent. Anyway, as others have already noted, the usefulness of that info for the above purpose is very much questionable. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On Monday 29 June 2009 16:19:13 Cliff Nadler wrote: > > I think a "Help me choose" choice that takes you to a page with > descriptions of each spin's environment would be more friendly (and > probably more accurate as to why someone would want to use that choice. > > [cut] I agree, "Help me choose" + description + a couple of screenshots would be nice, and I think that it's much better than labeling one version as "default". Maybe it's also useful to teach people that there are multiple environments to choose from (instead of assuming that they won't care about that)? L.V. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
Kevin Kofler wrote: > Mat Booth wrote: >> Fedora Live Image <--- A link that downloads the Gnome or KDE image, >> picked at random by a script. ;-) Followed by: > > WTF, a random default is going to make nobody happy, it'd just make a mess. > Random order of the options, with none marked as default, (which is > basically what openSUSE is doing) MIGHT be borderline tolerable, but I > think even that is silly. Even a bad default (i.e. GNOME ;-) ) is better > than a random one. I think the random choice proposal was just a joke (see the emoticon Mat used). -- Roberto Ragusamail at robertoragusa.it -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On 06/29/2009 09:42 PM, Adam Miller wrote: On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote: Well, Ubuntu will have a problem at that point as well (see Kubuntu and Xubuntu). ;-) Maybe we should write a U Desktop Environment just to give them trouble. ^^ That's actually a little different, Kubutu and Xubuntu are considered completely separate distributions from within the Ubuntu community. They all have disjoint development teams (though *some* do cross distros in their development efforts) really the only thing they share is a package repository, but so do distros like Mint. This is an aspect of Fedora that I really like, I always felt it foolish to have a different distro for each Desktop Environment. Yes, because what if someone installs Gnome, KDE, and XFCE? Is it now called Fedora 11GKX? Ukxuntu? (probably works out with some African dialect ;) ) Kevin, they'd probably just call it "Uubuntu" sadly. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Well, Ubuntu will have a problem at that point as well (see Kubuntu and > Xubuntu). ;-) Maybe we should write a U Desktop Environment just to give > them trouble. ^^ > That's actually a little different, Kubutu and Xubuntu are considered completely separate distributions from within the Ubuntu community. They all have disjoint development teams (though *some* do cross distros in their development efforts) really the only thing they share is a package repository, but so do distros like Mint. This is an aspect of Fedora that I really like, I always felt it foolish to have a different distro for each Desktop Environment. -Adam -- http://maxamillion.googlepages.com - () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
Mat Booth wrote: > Fedora Live Image <--- A link that downloads the Gnome or KDE image, > picked at random by a script. ;-) Followed by: WTF, a random default is going to make nobody happy, it'd just make a mess. Random order of the options, with none marked as default, (which is basically what openSUSE is doing) MIGHT be borderline tolerable, but I think even that is silly. Even a bad default (i.e. GNOME ;-) ) is better than a random one. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
Adam Miller wrote: > Somewhat silly, but the naming convention could actually help until we > run into some new DE (not sure if anyone has plans to pop one up or > not) that starts with the same letter as another). Well, Ubuntu will have a problem at that point as well (see Kubuntu and Xubuntu). ;-) Maybe we should write a U Desktop Environment just to give them trouble. ^^ Kevin Kofler -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:12:10 +0200 drago01 wrote: > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Richard > June wrote: > > Does archetecture get exported anywhere by javascript? > > If so, it would provide a simple way to query the users' hardware. > > No. Additionally, as the websites folks have already mentioned: There is no way to know if you are downloading on the machine you are going to install on. It could be a friends, at a library, etc. kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Richard June wrote: > Does archetecture get exported anywhere by javascript? > If so, it would provide a simple way to query the users' hardware. No. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
2009/6/29 Mat Booth : > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 5:52 PM, drago01 wrote: >> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Mat Booth wrote: >>> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Roberto Ragusa >>> wrote: I propose: FEDORA LIVE CD Fedora includes many desktops. You can choose: [ * ] Fedora Live with GNOME (default) [ ] Fedora Live with KDE [ ] Fedora Live with LXDE [ ] Fedora Live with XFCE (Funny that the order of the desktops has come out alphabetically sorted too) >>> >>> How about: >>> >>> Fedora Live Image <--- A link that downloads the Gnome or KDE image, >>> picked at random by a script. ;-) >> >> stop right there ... this is becoming really silly now. >> > > It's a silly suggestion for a silly thread. I've never had the > impression that Fedora was targeted toward the newbie user > demographic. My MP3 swilling, DVD consuming former Windows using > friends have mostly turned to the brown side (ubuntu) -- Fedora's for > people who want to get some work done. Well, i think fedora is for people who like it to have cutting edge software even trough the lifetime, like new kernel series, updated KDE, and and and. All the things they cant have with other distros like openSUSE (well possible with lots of more or less dangerous extra repos) or Ubuntu in the stable releasecycle. -- LG Thomas Dubium sapientiae initium -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
Does archetecture get exported anywhere by javascript? If so, it would provide a simple way to query the users' hardware. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
2009/6/29 drago01 : > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Ben Boeckel wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Niels Haase wrote: >>> I wonder if we could find also a way to get the 32bit vs. >> 64bit choice >>> also so smart integrated? >>> >>> Like a additional radio button at the end for choosing 32bit >> or 64bit. >>> >>> PS: Hope that this not cause the next long discussion about >> the default arch :) >> >> How about, instead of asking for arch directly, we have a >> series of questions to determine if they have a 64bit >> processor? >> >> 0. Button for "I know what I want" (direct choice) >> 1. Is your computer older (built/purchased new before 200X)? >> 2. Is it a netbook? (well, in this case should they really be >> getting optical media anyways? liveusb-creator can download on >> its own) >> 3. ... >> >> I'm probably not the most qualified to get the most effective >> questions, but it's a thought. > > User wants to download fedora .. sees the download page .. thinks "wtf > is that" ... moves on to ubuntu/opensuse/mandrivia/whatever Sorry, but is that what you would do? Dont always think users are stupid. If you hunt for the stupid ones, you will get the stupid ones. I would prefer to have more smarter users. But you have to be very dumb to not understand simple questions to fit your needs perfect. And we would always have the "give me the default" option for users like that. By the way, have you ever thought about that the users are right now going away because they think wtf is that? It's not like that we have the perfect solution yet. -- LG Thomas Dubium sapientiae initium -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 21:07:50 +0100, Mat Booth wrote: > > It's a silly suggestion for a silly thread. I've never had the > impression that Fedora was targeted toward the newbie user > demographic. My MP3 swilling, DVD consuming former Windows using > friends have mostly turned to the brown side (ubuntu) -- Fedora's for > people who want to get some work done. My opinion on who Fedora is for, is that Fedora is for people that want to participate, not just consume. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 5:52 PM, drago01 wrote: > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Mat Booth wrote: >> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Roberto Ragusa wrote: >>> I propose: >>> >>> FEDORA LIVE CD >>> Fedora includes many desktops. You can choose: >>> [ * ] Fedora Live with GNOME (default) >>> [ ] Fedora Live with KDE >>> [ ] Fedora Live with LXDE >>> [ ] Fedora Live with XFCE >>> >>> (Funny that the order of the desktops has come out >>> alphabetically sorted too) >>> >> >> How about: >> >> Fedora Live Image <--- A link that downloads the Gnome or KDE image, >> picked at random by a script. ;-) > > stop right there ... this is becoming really silly now. > It's a silly suggestion for a silly thread. I've never had the impression that Fedora was targeted toward the newbie user demographic. My MP3 swilling, DVD consuming former Windows using friends have mostly turned to the brown side (ubuntu) -- Fedora's for people who want to get some work done. -- Mat Booth www.matbooth.co.uk -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Ben Boeckel wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Niels Haase wrote: >> I wonder if we could find also a way to get the 32bit vs. > 64bit choice >> also so smart integrated? >> >> Like a additional radio button at the end for choosing 32bit > or 64bit. >> >> PS: Hope that this not cause the next long discussion about > the default arch :) > > How about, instead of asking for arch directly, we have a > series of questions to determine if they have a 64bit > processor? > > 0. Button for "I know what I want" (direct choice) > 1. Is your computer older (built/purchased new before 200X)? > 2. Is it a netbook? (well, in this case should they really be > getting optical media anyways? liveusb-creator can download on > its own) > 3. ... > > I'm probably not the most qualified to get the most effective > questions, but it's a thought. User wants to download fedora .. sees the download page .. thinks "wtf is that" ... moves on to ubuntu/opensuse/mandrivia/whatever -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Niels Haase wrote: > I wonder if we could find also a way to get the 32bit vs. 64bit choice > also so smart integrated? > > Like a additional radio button at the end for choosing 32bit or 64bit. > > PS: Hope that this not cause the next long discussion about the default arch :) How about, instead of asking for arch directly, we have a series of questions to determine if they have a 64bit processor? 0. Button for "I know what I want" (direct choice) 1. Is your computer older (built/purchased new before 200X)? 2. Is it a netbook? (well, in this case should they really be getting optical media anyways? liveusb-creator can download on its own) 3. ... I'm probably not the most qualified to get the most effective questions, but it's a thought. - --Ben > -- > Regards, > Niels -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkpJF6IACgkQiPi+MRHG3qSBvwCcCl4skiej+IzwZp9d8tno20fW NnkAoMCZJ4MiKkvc7rTqWXuB2pblafYh =vbnF -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:52 PM, drago01 wrote: > [...] > stop right there ... this is becoming really silly now. > > As if the name of a iso image is the only problem we should care about. > We should spend our time and efforts on fixing real issues. Sorry, but this is ignorant too. A distribution do not only have "real technical issues". The apperance to the users is also part of the distribution work. Kind regards, Thomas -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On 6/29/2009 12:31 PM, Adam Miller wrote: > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Mat Booth wrote: >> Fedora Live Image <--- A link that downloads the Gnome or KDE image, >> picked at random by a script. > > Now its just getting silly... What a support nightmare that would be. > > I need help > What desktop are you running? > I dunno ... I just downloaded the default > . > > Enjoy DE Russian Roulette :) Now you guys are just getting Geeky about this. First. What makes you think that 'a Newbie from Windows' has any idea just what this 'desktop thing' is all about? Second. I would guess that if 'a Newbie from Windows' showed up to download that someone showed him where to go and made strong suggestions something like 'this one is what I use'. Third. I would be willing to bet that many of them would name the wallpaper if you ask them what a Windows desktop is. :-) What makes you think that 'a Newbie from Windows' has any idea just what a 'desktop' is? Sheesh. -- David -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Mat Booth wrote: > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Roberto Ragusa wrote: >> I propose: >> >> FEDORA LIVE CD >> Fedora includes many desktops. You can choose: >> [ * ] Fedora Live with GNOME (default) >> [ ] Fedora Live with KDE >> [ ] Fedora Live with LXDE >> [ ] Fedora Live with XFCE >> >> (Funny that the order of the desktops has come out >> alphabetically sorted too) >> > > How about: > > Fedora Live Image <--- A link that downloads the Gnome or KDE image, > picked at random by a script. ;-) stop right there ... this is becoming really silly now. As if the name of a iso image is the only problem we should care about. We should spend our time and efforts on fixing real issues. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Michael Cronenworth wrote: > What if the Fedora version had a suffix? > > Fedora 11G - Gnome > 11K - KDE > 11X - XFCE > 11S - no desktop (server?) > > Seems silly, too, yes, but just an idea. > Somewhat silly, but the naming convention could actually help until we run into some new DE (not sure if anyone has plans to pop one up or not) that starts with the same letter as another). Not a bad idea imho if we are to travel down this path. -Adam -- http://maxamillion.googlepages.com - () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
2009/6/29 Jaroslav Reznik : > On Monday 29 June 2009 17:02:36 Michael Cronenworth wrote: >> Dariusz J. Garbowski on 06/29/2009 09:56 AM wrote: >> > Maybe call it "Default" then? >> >> No, because that's offensive to some people apparently. > > No, "default" is not offensive! "Gnome Desktop Live Edition (default)" is OK > for me... +1 -- LG Thomas Dubium sapientiae initium -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
2009/6/29 Kevin Kofler : > Roberto Ragusa wrote: >> (Funny that the order of the desktops has come out >> alphabetically sorted too) > > We may want to list XFCE before LXDE as its the more mature option. But I > don't have popularity stats for those, so I don't know which one is more > popular. The more popular one should be listed first. Well, alphabetically sorted is just perfect. No matter what DE might be the most popular. -- LG Thomas Dubium sapientiae initium -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
Adam Miller on 06/29/2009 11:31 AM wrote: > > Now its just getting silly... What a support nightmare that would be. > > I need help > What desktop are you running? > I dunno ... I just downloaded the default > . > > Enjoy DE Russian Roulette :) > What if the Fedora version had a suffix? Fedora 11G - Gnome 11K - KDE 11X - XFCE 11S - no desktop (server?) Seems silly, too, yes, but just an idea. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Mat Booth wrote: > Fedora Live Image <--- A link that downloads the Gnome or KDE image, > picked at random by a script. Now its just getting silly... What a support nightmare that would be. I need help What desktop are you running? I dunno ... I just downloaded the default . Enjoy DE Russian Roulette :) -Adam -- http://maxamillion.googlepages.com - () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Roberto Ragusa wrote: > I propose: > > FEDORA LIVE CD > Fedora includes many desktops. You can choose: > [ * ] Fedora Live with GNOME (default) > [ ] Fedora Live with KDE > [ ] Fedora Live with LXDE > [ ] Fedora Live with XFCE > > (Funny that the order of the desktops has come out > alphabetically sorted too) > How about: Fedora Live Image <--- A link that downloads the Gnome or KDE image, picked at random by a script. ;-) Followed by: Fedora Live Image with GNOME <--- Links to specific editions. with KDE with LXDE with XFCE -- Mat Booth www.matbooth.co.uk -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On Monday 29 June 2009 17:02:36 Michael Cronenworth wrote: > Dariusz J. Garbowski on 06/29/2009 09:56 AM wrote: > > Maybe call it "Default" then? > > No, because that's offensive to some people apparently. No, "default" is not offensive! "Gnome Desktop Live Edition (default)" is OK for me... -- Jaroslav Řezník Associate Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno Office: +420 532 294 275 Mobile: +420 731 455 332 Red Hat, Inc. http://cz.redhat.com/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
Roberto Ragusa wrote: > (Funny that the order of the desktops has come out > alphabetically sorted too) We may want to list XFCE before LXDE as its the more mature option. But I don't have popularity stats for those, so I don't know which one is more popular. The more popular one should be listed first. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
Dariusz J. Garbowski on 06/29/2009 09:56 AM wrote: > > Maybe call it "Default" then? > No, because that's offensive to some people apparently. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On 06/29/2009 05:27 AM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: On Monday 29 June 2009 13:22:05 Naheem Zaffar wrote: The "I don't care" looks like "get me out of here!". "I don't care" really scares me. If you don't care then system installation or using with live CD is not a job for you! Maybe call it "Default" then? -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
Michal Hlavinka wrote: > FEDORA LIVE CD > Do you require a specific desktop ? > [ * ] Fedora Live with GNOME (default) > [ ] Fedora Live with KDE > [ ] Fedora Live with LXDE > [ ] Fedora Live with XFCE The word "require" is too strong, I may choose by preference or by curiosity, which are not exactly a requirement. I propose: FEDORA LIVE CD Fedora includes many desktops. You can choose: [ * ] Fedora Live with GNOME (default) [ ] Fedora Live with KDE [ ] Fedora Live with LXDE [ ] Fedora Live with XFCE (Funny that the order of the desktops has come out alphabetically sorted too) -- Roberto Ragusamail at robertoragusa.it -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Clyde E. Kunkel wrote: > On 06/29/2009 07:22 AM, Naheem Zaffar wrote: > >> The "I don't care" looks like "get me out of here!". >> >> Not presenting a default choice is just bad usability. Those that know >> about the different desktop environments should be offered an easy and >> accessible way to get to them (I am not suggesting that the current page >> does that - but presenting a false choice to many people already out of >> their element trying this linux thingymajig may be enough to scare them >> away.). Those that don't should not have to worry to much over such a >> page. >> >> > > Probably should read "No Preference" vice "I don't care" then the link > can lead to a dialogue that explains the default or even provides some > neutral facts about the other desktops. Keep the facts short. > > I think a "Help me choose" choice that takes you to a page with descriptions of each spin's environment would be more friendly (and probably more accurate as to why someone would want to use that choice. On the opposite side, there could be a "Show me everything" to just link to all the ISO's, which is aimed at the folks who know what they want and just want to get there in the quickest number of clicks. C. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On 06/29/2009 09:35 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: David wrote: The "I don't care" just links to whichever desktop is currently the "default". People who don't care should (and will, anyway) just keep using Winblow$ or whatever crap they're currently using. If you're going through the effort of downloading an operating system, you should be expected to care about what you're getting. Kevin Kofler I don't think so. I think if someone wants to give linux and Fedora a shot, then lets make it easy for them. Let them go back to MS windows if they like--all that means is that linux/Fedora/free software is not yet at a level they can appreciate or even use without thinking about the technie stuff and then we go back to thre drawing boards and try again (and again...). -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On 06/29/2009 07:22 AM, Naheem Zaffar wrote: The "I don't care" looks like "get me out of here!". Not presenting a default choice is just bad usability. Those that know about the different desktop environments should be offered an easy and accessible way to get to them (I am not suggesting that the current page does that - but presenting a false choice to many people already out of their element trying this linux thingymajig may be enough to scare them away.). Those that don't should not have to worry to much over such a page. Probably should read "No Preference" vice "I don't care" then the link can lead to a dialogue that explains the default or even provides some neutral facts about the other desktops. Keep the facts short. I know that there is a debate about who the Fedora audience is, but if Fedora ever wants to be a contender desktop alternative for the non-techie, just give me something that lets me do my e-mail, facebook, write my college papers or whatever, it has to lose the "techie" overtones it currently has. Those of us who appreciate Fedora and enjoy living with rawhide will easily be able to quickly adopt the desktop we like or even play with multiple desktops. We can then hand out DVDs with David's menu to friends and associates and say, "Hey, try this one. You'll like it!!" -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
David wrote: > The "I don't care" just links to whichever desktop is currently the > "default". People who don't care should (and will, anyway) just keep using Winblow$ or whatever crap they're currently using. If you're going through the effort of downloading an operating system, you should be expected to care about what you're getting. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
Jaroslav Reznik wrote: > "I don't care" really scares me. If you don't care then system > installation or using with live CD is not a job for you! +1, and that's why the current design which is optimized for people who don't care is broken. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 5:48 AM, David wrote: > Re the discussion at > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-June/msg01991.html > > The below suggestion tries to satisfy all parties: > - it presents a neutral default > - it presents a simple choice for newbie who doesnt know what a desktop is > - it shows the range of what is available > - it allows a specific choice > > Design suggestion for the Fedora download page > (http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora): > > FEDORA LIVE CD > Do you require a specific desktop ? > [ * ] I don't care > [ ] Fedora Live with GNOME > [ ] Fedora Live with KDE > [ ] Fedora Live with LXDE > [ ] Fedora Live with XFCE > etc > > The "I don't care" just links to whichever desktop is currently the "default". > > Implementation of this logic doesn't require radio buttons. Just 2 links: > 1) "click here for default" > 2) or "click here to choose (go to a selection menu)" > > Clicking link #1 gets you the default. Or clicking link #2 takes you > to a menu of links, one for each available choice. > > Fedora policy specifies which desktop the user gets if they click the default. > But the above user interface design is independent of whichever one is > the default. > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list@redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > +1 Great idea, possibly change the verbage of "I don't care" but a solid idea non the less. -Adam -- http://maxamillion.googlepages.com - () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
2009/6/29 Thomas Janssen : > 2009/6/29 David : >> Re the discussion at >> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-June/msg01991.html >> >> The below suggestion tries to satisfy all parties: >> - it presents a neutral default >> - it presents a simple choice for newbie who doesnt know what a desktop is >> - it shows the range of what is available >> - it allows a specific choice >> >> Design suggestion for the Fedora download page >> (http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora): >> > FEDORA LIVE CD > Do you require a specific desktop ? > [ * ] I just want to try/have a look [Info] > [ ] Fedora Live with GNOME [Screenshots] [Info] > [ ] Fedora Live with KDE [Screenshots] [Info] > [ ] Fedora Live with LXDE [Screenshots] [Info] > [ ] Fedora Live with XFCE [Screenshots] [Info] > etc > > The "I just want to try/have a look" just links to whichever desktop > is currently the "default". > I like the screenshot / info page idea. But I think one thing is missing. I wonder if we could find also a way to get the 32bit vs. 64bit choice also so smart integrated? Like a additional radio button at the end for choosing 32bit or 64bit. PS: Hope that this not cause the next long discussion about the default arch :) -- Regards, Niels > Thanks David > > -- > LG Thomas > > Dubium sapientiae initium > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list@redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
Naheem Zaffar wrote: The "I don't care" looks like "get me out of here!". Reminds me about the fact that there should be another option: "no desktop" Ralf -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On Monday 29 June 2009 12:48:11 David wrote: > Re the discussion at > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-June/msg01991.html > > The below suggestion tries to satisfy all parties: > - it presents a neutral default > - it presents a simple choice for newbie who doesnt know what a desktop is > - it shows the range of what is available > - it allows a specific choice > > Design suggestion for the Fedora download page > (http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora): > > FEDORA LIVE CD > Do you require a specific desktop ? > [ * ] I don't care > [ ] Fedora Live with GNOME > [ ] Fedora Live with KDE > [ ] Fedora Live with LXDE > [ ] Fedora Live with XFCE > etc > > The "I don't care" just links to whichever desktop is currently the > "default". > > Implementation of this logic doesn't require radio buttons. Just 2 links: > 1) "click here for default" > 2) or "click here to choose (go to a selection menu)" > > Clicking link #1 gets you the default. Or clicking link #2 takes you > to a menu of links, one for each available choice. > > Fedora policy specifies which desktop the user gets if they click the > default. But the above user interface design is independent of whichever > one is the default. small improvement: FEDORA LIVE CD Do you require a specific desktop ? [ * ] Fedora Live with GNOME (default) [ ] Fedora Live with KDE [ ] Fedora Live with LXDE [ ] Fedora Live with XFCE etc it's better than "I don't care" and it suggests what to use if you really don't care :) -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
2009/6/29 David : > Re the discussion at > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-June/msg01991.html > > The below suggestion tries to satisfy all parties: > - it presents a neutral default > - it presents a simple choice for newbie who doesnt know what a desktop is > - it shows the range of what is available > - it allows a specific choice > > Design suggestion for the Fedora download page > (http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora): > FEDORA LIVE CD Do you require a specific desktop ? [ * ] I just want to try/have a look [Info] [ ] Fedora Live with GNOME [Screenshots][Info] [ ] Fedora Live with KDE[Screenshots][Info] [ ] Fedora Live with LXDE [Screenshots] [Info] [ ] Fedora Live with XFCE [Screenshots] [Info] etc The "I just want to try/have a look" just links to whichever desktop is currently the "default". Thanks David -- LG Thomas Dubium sapientiae initium -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
On Monday 29 June 2009 13:22:05 Naheem Zaffar wrote: > The "I don't care" looks like "get me out of here!". "I don't care" really scares me. If you don't care then system installation or using with live CD is not a job for you! Jaroslav > > Not presenting a default choice is just bad usability. Those that know > about the different desktop environments should be offered an easy and > accessible way to get to them (I am not suggesting that the current page > does that - but presenting a false choice to many people already out of > their element trying this linux thingymajig may be enough to scare them > away.). Those that don't should not have to worry to much over such a page. -- Jaroslav Řezník Associate Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno Office: +420 532 294 275 Mobile: +420 731 455 332 Red Hat, Inc. http://cz.redhat.com/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
The "I don't care" looks like "get me out of here!". Not presenting a default choice is just bad usability. Those that know about the different desktop environments should be offered an easy and accessible way to get to them (I am not suggesting that the current page does that - but presenting a false choice to many people already out of their element trying this linux thingymajig may be enough to scare them away.). Those that don't should not have to worry to much over such a page. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
2009/6/29 David : > Re the discussion at > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-June/msg01991.html > > The below suggestion tries to satisfy all parties: > - it presents a neutral default > - it presents a simple choice for newbie who doesnt know what a desktop is > - it shows the range of what is available > - it allows a specific choice > > Design suggestion for the Fedora download page > (http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora): > > FEDORA LIVE CD > Do you require a specific desktop ? > [ * ] I don't care > [ ] Fedora Live with GNOME > [ ] Fedora Live with KDE > [ ] Fedora Live with LXDE > [ ] Fedora Live with XFCE > etc > > The "I don't care" just links to whichever desktop is currently the "default". > > Implementation of this logic doesn't require radio buttons. Just 2 links: > 1) "click here for default" > 2) or "click here to choose (go to a selection menu)" > > Clicking link #1 gets you the default. Or clicking link #2 takes you > to a menu of links, one for each available choice. > > Fedora policy specifies which desktop the user gets if they click the default. > But the above user interface design is independent of whichever one is > the default. > David, this looks awesome to my, really good work! +1 -- Regards, Niels > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list@redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Suggestion re FESCO Ticket #170
Re the discussion at https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-June/msg01991.html The below suggestion tries to satisfy all parties: - it presents a neutral default - it presents a simple choice for newbie who doesnt know what a desktop is - it shows the range of what is available - it allows a specific choice Design suggestion for the Fedora download page (http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora): FEDORA LIVE CD Do you require a specific desktop ? [ * ] I don't care [ ] Fedora Live with GNOME [ ] Fedora Live with KDE [ ] Fedora Live with LXDE [ ] Fedora Live with XFCE etc The "I don't care" just links to whichever desktop is currently the "default". Implementation of this logic doesn't require radio buttons. Just 2 links: 1) "click here for default" 2) or "click here to choose (go to a selection menu)" Clicking link #1 gets you the default. Or clicking link #2 takes you to a menu of links, one for each available choice. Fedora policy specifies which desktop the user gets if they click the default. But the above user interface design is independent of whichever one is the default. -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
