Re: [fpc-other] [fpc-devel] OS/2 and DLLs
On 12/18/2014 2:09 PM, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote: I presume that the early enthusiasm had largely dissipated by the time IBM started pushing it as a 32-bit OS, with a new binary format etc. OS/2 is 32bit (for the most part) since v2.0, released in 1992 and it became actually really popular after that with OS/2 3.x and 4.x ("Warp"), so I doubt that this is a valid conclusion. It's rather that IBM started to position it for it's own specialized markets rather then "fight" against Microsoft Windows as a mainstream desktop OS, not to mention trying to compete with OS/2 LAN Server against the surging Windows Server products (specifically after Windows 2000 Server was released). That made it a less lucrative and attractive market for people in the mainstream market. I can remember to have seen OS/2 based bank terminals here in the US just a year or so ago. A lot of that had to do with the mindset of IBM as a whole, still to this day far too focused on "the big iron" (and now cloud) stuff and never have taken the PC market that serious. That's also why they first offloaded the ThinkPad stuff to the actual manufacturer Lenovo years ago, followed by the PC and now recently, the x86 based server parts... Ralf --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] [fpc-devel] OS/2 and DLLs
On Thu, December 18, 2014 23:09, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote: > Noting somebody's earlier comment about the lack of DLL support being > due to a linker limitation, I think this is unfortunate since when OS/2 > came out the fact that the binary formats were well-documented and > supported by at least two linkers (MS and TopSpeed) was a significant > advantage. > > I presume that the early enthusiasm had largely dissipated by the time > IBM started pushing it as a 32-bit OS, with a new binary format etc. In fact, the documentation is still available and there are several linkers available as well (although Watcom WLINK is probably the only one actively supported and free one). Moreover, the object file format was not really changed by IBM much as far as I know (it's basically the same Intel OMF format which was already used for DOS, although obviously extended as necessary). The executable format was changed indeed, but it was still closer to format already used by 16-bit MS Windows and various DOS extenders than the PE format used for Win32. Note that the IBM linker has been shipped with every copy of OS/2, so this wasn't the real problem. However, it's a different linker than what is supported in FPC and it needs a different object and library format from the one supported by the OS/2 port of the GNU assembler; among other reasons, I would attribute this to the fact that the original porter wanted to target DOS and OS/2 using the same compiled binaries and he could probably do it easier if keeping the format already supported by the GNU world by that time. Also, it would have been easier if the OS/2 port was contributed back to the original project and kept maintained over time, or if the original GNU C/as/ld/gdb porter (who did tremendous job, BTW) was available for help with backporting his changes to the current source tree. Anyway - we have to live with what is available now. Tomas ___ fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] [fpc-devel] OS/2 and DLLs
Tomas Hajny wrote: Switching to fpc-other as a more appropriate space: I believe that although my time available for FPC is quite limited, my activities related to OS/2 target in FPC in the last few years show more than clearly that I want to continue support of this target regardless of the number of users lower compared to some other targets as long as my work helps at least someone. In this context, I'd like to thank everybody who expressed his interest in this target. Note that I don't aim to convince people that they should stop using their preferred platform and switch to OS/2, and I won't participate in any kind of advocacy discussion about why OS/2 should continue to be used, etc. Noting somebody's earlier comment about the lack of DLL support being due to a linker limitation, I think this is unfortunate since when OS/2 came out the fact that the binary formats were well-documented and supported by at least two linkers (MS and TopSpeed) was a significant advantage. I presume that the early enthusiasm had largely dissipated by the time IBM started pushing it as a 32-bit OS, with a new binary format etc. -- Mark Morgan Lloyd markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues] ___ fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] [fpc-devel] OS/2 and DLLs
2014-12-17 21:38 GMT+01:00 rpzrpz...@gmail.com : > > > Ralf, Such passion for obsolescence... > > What is the use case other than a hobby and pride for OS/2 support? > > Hopefully, FPC core maintainers are not distracted by the legacy support. > > FPC maintainers don't hesitate to stop supporting lagacy OS-es, if necessary: http://wiki.freepascal.org/User_Changes_Trunk#Windows_9x_series Vincent ___ fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] [fpc-devel] OS/2 and DLLs
On Thu, December 18, 2014 21:54, Tomas Hajny wrote: > On Thu, December 18, 2014 19:49, Ralf Quint wrote: >> On 12/17/2014 2:56 PM, mark diener wrote: >>> Ralf, I am not goint to tell you to do anything, but gently suggest >>> that you chill out. >> Well, how about you live what you are preaching? > > I'd like to ask everybody to stop responding to this part of the thread > and restrict him/herself to on topic messages on this list. Switching to fpc-other as a more appropriate space: I believe that although my time available for FPC is quite limited, my activities related to OS/2 target in FPC in the last few years show more than clearly that I want to continue support of this target regardless of the number of users lower compared to some other targets as long as my work helps at least someone. In this context, I'd like to thank everybody who expressed his interest in this target. Note that I don't aim to convince people that they should stop using their preferred platform and switch to OS/2, and I won't participate in any kind of advocacy discussion about why OS/2 should continue to be used, etc. Thanks again Tomas ___ fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other