Re: New technologies in FreeBSD 5.x vs. 4.x
[ Bcc'd to -current following initial crosspost. Followups to -hackers or directly to Mr. Penisoara. ] On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 03:17:15PM +0200, Adrian Penisoara wrote: Where can I find a (preferrably detailed) list of the new technologies introduced with FreeBSD 5.x ? Greetings Adrian, The most significant new features are listed in the Release Announcement[0]. There is greater detail available in the Release Notes under What's New[1]. I would also like, if possible, to get in touch with a few of the main developers that took charge of coding them. You can contact the person listed as MAINTAINER in the Makefile for the part of the source tree you are concerned with. If there is no MAINTAINER listed, a quick trip through CVSWeb[2] will reveal who has been the most active committer to that section of the tree. I would, of course, recommend courtesy and patience when approaching FreeBSD develoeprs for an interview. Most of them are quite busy. [0] - http://www.freebsd.org/releases/5.0R/announce.html [1] - http://www.freebsd.org/releases/5.0R/relnotes-i386.html [2] - http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ Good luck, Brandon D. Valentine -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geekpunk.net We've been raised on replicas of fake and winding roads, and day after day up on this beautiful stage we've been playing tambourine for minimum wage, but we are real; I know we are real. -- David Berman To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Unwanted Spam 'Re: I'm leaving the project'
On Wed, Dec 18, 2002 at 10:58:59AM -0800, Matthew Dillon wrote: You know, whoever you are, you must lead a very sad, paranoid, sit-in-the-corner-the-world-is-out-to-get-me life if you think you are actually accomplishing something here. You are probably the same idiot who posts all that anonymous-coward BSD-Is-Dying junk to Slashdot. I wouldn't be surprised at all. For a much more in-depth analysis see my explanation from the last time one of these (and quite likely the very same) impersonators popped up on this list: http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/FreeBSD/146/0/9367929/ Game on, Brandon D. Valentine -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:///www.geekpunk.net Everyone's been sold American. Don't let me catch you laughing when the jukebox cries...Everything's been sold American. No place to go and brother, no place to stay. -- Kinky Friedman, Sold American To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: DRM in the sys/ tree: looking for testers
On 18 Apr 2002, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: Eric Anholt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Could people test this in-kernel DRM and tell me how it works for them? Seems to work fine here (trusty ol' Matrox G200 w/8 MB). Is there a particular DRI application I can use to somehow stress-test or benchmark the module? I've gotten kind of tired of Aleph One :) No promises that this will compile or run on -current, but I suspect it will. This is _the_ OpenGL benchmark. http://www.specbench.org/gpc/opc.static/vp50.htm - Brandon D. Valentine To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: DRM in the sys/ tree: looking for testers
On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Brandon D. Valentine wrote: http://www.specbench.org/gpc/opc.static/vp50.htm This is probably a more useful URL: http://www.specbench.org/gpc/opc.static/overview.htm (thought I hit back before copying-and-pasting the URL, but I guess not) - Brandon D. Valentine To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: spam
On Thu, 20 Dec 2001, Joe Halpin wrote: I'm starting to get spam since I joined this list, and the spam is coming from freebsd.org. If I'm reading the headers right, it's coming in through a freebsd.org mail server. headers snipped Is this just a normal part of being on the list? You're not getting the spam directly. The spam is sent to the mailing list and then sent to you as a subscriber. This is an unfortunate side effect of the fact that the mailing lists are open to posting from non-subscribers. Brandon D. Valentine -- Iam mens praetrepidans avet vagari. - G. Valerius Catullus, Carmina, XLVI To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Motion for removal of xargs(1) from base system
On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Alfred Perlstein wrote: * Jackie 'business-first' Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED] [011210 16:19] wrote: As a replacement for the 'functionality' present in xargs(1), I propose implementing arbitrary length argument list passing right in the operating system. Nice proposal, where's the diff? I'd like to preempt the ensuing bikeshed by voting for green. Yours sincerly, Jackie 'business-first' Cook. You don't by chance sell used cars, do you? Brandon D. Valentine -- Iam mens praetrepidans avet vagari. - G. Valerius Catullus, Carmina, XLVI To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: [SUGGESTION] - JFS for FreeBSD
On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Greg Lehey wrote: On Monday, 10 December 2001 at 17:47:11 -0500, Anthony Schneider wrote: perhaps there could be an upgrade to offer options SOFTERUPDATES as an equal-but-different alternative to jfs? And what would that do? SOFTERUPDATES includes a switch to diffused gallery lighting and enhanced mood music. For the hacker in touch with his feminine side, it offers the ultimate in warm fuzzies. Brandon D. Valentine -- Iam mens praetrepidans avet vagari. - G. Valerius Catullus, Carmina, XLVI To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding athlon xp to bsd.cpu.mk
On Sun, 28 Oct 2001, Maxim Sobolev wrote: AFAIK, not quite. The core name is Palomino and there are three processors based on it: Athlon XP, Athlon MP and Duron. The AMD Athlon XP, MP, and mobile Athlon4 are based on the Palomino core. The 1Ghz+ Durons are based on the Morgan core, a Palomino derivative with less cache. The previous generations of Athlons were based on the K7, K75, and Thunderbird cores. What is a bit misleading about the naming of AMD's processors is that at present they are all SMP capable. You can use dual Thunderbirds or Durons or XPs without a problem, generally. In fact, you can even use processors of different clock speeds in an SMP configuration fairly successfully, though it is not recommended. What you pay for when you buy Athlon MP processors is AMD's SmartMP technology. SmartMP includes a more advanced cache coherency protocol and an inter-processor snoop bus that allows the processors to exchange data from their caches instead of going directly to main memory all the time. -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding athlon xp to bsd.cpu.mk
On Sun, 28 Oct 2001, Cyrille Lefevre wrote: Athlon (alias k7) already has MMX. the objective of this patch was to add SSE to the set of XP (alias MP) processors. I haven't seen the patch you're talking about, nor do I have any newer Athlons here that support SSE, but it seems like it's pretty trivial to grab the SSE identifier out of the table at: http://www.amd.com/products/cpg/athlon/techdocs/pdf/20734.pdf and add it to the print_AMD_features() function in src/sys/i386/i386/identcpu.c. -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding athlon xp to bsd.cpu.mk
On Sun, 28 Oct 2001, mikea wrote: On Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 01:49:05AM -0500, Chip Marshall wrote: Couldn't a test be done on the Features information of the processor to determine the best optimizations? Or would that break cross-compiliation of optimized code? So I compile something on my AMD box which I expect to run only on my P-III or P-IV box. The program is optimized for the AMD processor. This is _not_ what I would want. Ditto for the converse case. IMHO, the control needs to be in environment variables and/or in parameters passed to the compiler somehow. It is. This thread was only discussing how to get the kernel to recognize these features. The CPUTYPE and CFLAGS envvars have always controlled which optimizations the compiler is allowed to use. That won't be changing. -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Approach to integrate a driver into the kernel [winmodem]
On Thu, 11 Oct 2001, Benjamin Close wrote: Hi All, I've now been using the FreeBSD winmodem driver (Available at: http://www.geocities.com/wtnbkysh/) under -current for a few weeks now and haven't noticed a single glitch. Whilst I know this is a port of a linux drivers and contains a binary only object from Lucent. Is there any chance of getting this as part of the FreeBSD kernel? There is a lot of people out in laptop land who would welcome this. I would think the license probably precludes it from inclusion. If you want to push for commital you might do well to research a bit about how Lucent licenses their WinModem driver under Linux, then find out if the patches at that site you listed are BSD licensed. If your email contains that info it probably has a better chance of getting attention. If the license on the kernel module is incompatible with the base system, you might be able to get the hooks to support it committed to FreeBSD and get the kernel modules made installable as a port. /usr/local/modules anyone? =) -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: NIS client performance seems very poor under network load
On Thu, 27 Sep 2001, Jordan Hubbard wrote: Progress in these types of situations nearly always comes from people with enough self-interest in the problem area to actually commit to working on it. Rather than asking for people who have written an autofsd to step forward, why not instead start working on this project yourselves and ask for volunteers to HELP you address the problem? That's taking on the problem from the right end, IMHO. I agree wholeheartedly Jordan. My self-interest in the problem has at least motivated me enough to go reading the applicable source but I've not had time lately to work on actual patches. I've got a lot of irons in the fire at the moment, especially with students being back around (I'm a sysadmin at Vanderbilt University) but when things quiet down I do intend to work on this. At the moment I sit daily in front of an SGI Indigo2 running IRIX because it's better than Linux and integrates quite well with our environment. I really want a FreeBSD workstation on my desk, so I'll likely end up writing the patches just so I can get that FreeBSD workstation integrated. But, no promises on a timeframe so if someone else wants to get started now, then by all means charge right ahead with it. -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: NIS client performance seems very poor under network load
On Fri, 28 Sep 2001, Thyer, Matthew wrote: Now that is something I do care about and FreeBSD's possible poor NIS client performance is making it look very bad in a large UNIX network such as the one we run here. Combine that with the fact that FreeBSD has no automounter that is compatible with the commercial UNIX systems and you'll see that FreeBSD is missing out in some key markets (being a client in a larger UNIX network). I have echoed these sentiments many times on this same mailing list. I am faced with the same problem. I admin a large, heterogenous NIS/NFS/autofs domain and integrating just one FreeBSD box into is so hacking it's embarassing. [I dont want to hear the arguments of Use AMD, it's better because there are many situations where the client cannot control what NIS maps the server will provide]. You post messages like this on FreeBSD mailing lists and from personal experience I can guarantee you'll get lots of help converting to AMD. So if anyone has something useful to offer re: investigating of FreeBSD's NIS client performance, please reply. This message isn't particularly useful, but I am at least sympathetic to your plight. Also news along the lines of I have written an autofsd and need people to test it would be good too. AFAIK nobody has written an autofsd for BSD, but the amd maintainers (now known as am-utils and in src/contrib) have stuff on their website about adding autofs support to amd, but it doesn't appear to be very far along. -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: NIS client performance seems very poor under network load
On Fri, 28 Sep 2001, Brandon D. Valentine wrote: I have echoed these sentiments many times on this same mailing list. I am faced with the same problem. I admin a large, heterogenous NIS/NFS/autofs domain and integrating just one FreeBSD box into is so hacking it's embarassing. s/hacking/hackish/ I know, replied to my own message. -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Jonathan Lemon wrote: It would make it very cool junior kernel hacker task to use lisp in the boot loader... Seriously now, don't we have better things to spend our time and energies on than re-implementing code that already works? But, if we rewrite the bootloader in LISP we can get RMS to maintain it! *duck* -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Jim Bryant wrote: I still think that Scheme has far less proficient programmers than LISP. What? You think there are far less proficient accountants than there are mathematicians? But more people get Accounting degrees daily than Mathematics degrees, and besides that it's an easier subset of Math. If you didn't realize it, Scheme is nothing more than a subset of the common LISP. It was created especially for situations like this where you want LISP's power and flexibility but not that kitchen sink that comes with most common LISP. BTW: In LISP, *EVERYTHING* is data. LISP was executing data as code and writing self-replicating programs around 1951 or 1952. The cognitive leap that leads every LISPer to his understanding of AI programming is a very exciting thing. I wish I had a picture of my face the day I figured it out. -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: My Recommended Development/Testing environment for -current
On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: I'm posting this as an aid to everyone doing freebsd-current development and testing and may not realize how easy it is to setup a development environment. I found this very helpful Matt, thank you. I would only add one thing that I do in addition to some of these NFS tricks. The only machines at home which I presently keep hard drives in are my file server, firewall, and desktop. Everything else netboots off of the file server. This is very convenient because I can keep multiple NFS roots around and simply edit a text file, HUP a daemon, and power cycle a machine to alter which OS and/or OS revision it's running. Switched fast ethernet is more than enough to keep up with this on the 10 or so machines I have up and running at any given time. It works quite well. I will say though, on the subject of NFS, that one of the things that I'm almost annoyed enough with to start hacking on is the BSDs lack of autofs support. Linux now has a kickass autofs automounter. The BSDs are, to the best of my knowledge, the only OS left without one. Am-utils (the contrib source for our amd) has been kicking around autofs support for a while now but still does not appear to have anything release quality. It's a nuisance to have to run special scripts to parse your auto.* maps into stuff amd can understand in an NIS environment. -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: My Recommended Development/Testing environment for -current
On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, The Anarcat wrote: On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Brandon D. Valentine wrote: On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: [snip of diskless comments] You wouldn't happen to have sample configs around, wouldn't you? :) Am-utils (the contrib source for our amd) has been kicking around autofs support for a while now but still does not appear to have anything release quality. Am-utils, while being a quite complex piece of software, does fullfil the task of autofs. It does need extra configuration compared to Linux's autofs though. For the record, I automount my cdr, cdrom, zip and floppy drives (both in ufs and msdos mode) using this configuration files: I do believe you have misunderstood. My complaint is that am-utils requires the type of config files you pasted here. Most every other unix operating system, Linux and the commercial unices, now comes with an autofsd/automountd which uses the auto.master/auto.* config file format which requires far less configuration and is *interoperable* in a heterogenous environment. On each of the SGIs and the Linux box here I have an /etc/auto.master that does little more than +auto.master which includes a NIS map that works everywhere. This is not nearly as easy with the standard BSD amd. -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Headsup! KSE Nay-sayers speak up!
On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, David O'Brien wrote: On Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 01:17:01AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: Julian Elischer wrote: For $500-$600 I can put you on a 500MHz 21164 Alpha. I've invested $2500 from my own pocket in Alpha hardware, so others with nice Bay Area saleries can too. :-) Remember that Julian is freshly married... Maybe he can be sent an Alpha as a wedding present... Hey cool down guys... ??? He had a :-) and I had a joke in response... I don't think either of us were anything other than joking... I don't know why you think that. I was, and am, 110% serious. I'm sure you guys will really endear yourselves to Julian's new wife if you send him a time-consuming new geektoy. ;-) -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: exec issue in tcsh?
On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Jim Bryant wrote: Wow. Why not use xdm? 8) Too lazy? Heh. You just uncomment one line in /etc/ttys and HUP init. It's not compilicated. -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Copyright Contradiction in libalias
On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, Crist J. Clark wrote: It is now written policy, and I believe it was the understood, unwritten policy in the past, that any patches and additions to a file in FreeBSD are governed by the existing licensing of the file unless otherwise stated. This would indicate to me that this file is arguably still public domain. The problem with source in the public domain versus a BSD license is that public domain source code does not explicitly release the project and author from liability. I'm sure that's why a BSD license was slapped over this code. -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: /usr/games/wtf
On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't see any benefits to having this in the base system. Make it a port instead. Oh and /usr/games/wargames is such a huge benefit? By that logic all of /usr/games belong as ports. Which I wont argue with at all. I would argue with taking /usr/games/fortune out of the base system though. I am quite annoyed when I sit down in front of one of my commercial unix boxen only to find the vendor has decided to leave fortune off of the box. =) -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: devfs
On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, David W. Chapman Jr. wrote: The only problem is devfs is mounted and I can't seem to get around that. I haven't had much time lately to fool with my -CURRENT box but it seems that booting singleuser oughta help? -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: devfs
On Sat, 18 Aug 2001, David W. Chapman Jr. wrote: If I'm using devfs on -current, can I erase the contents of my /dev before devfs is mounted to save space? What space are you planning to save? You might free up some inodes but according to my 4.4-PRERELEASE box: [bandix@leto /dev]% du -sh . 58K. -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: devfs
On Sun, 19 Aug 2001, Kris Kennaway wrote: Devices are just inodes..you shouldn't have anything in /dev other than MAKEDEV, the fd/ subdirectory and a whole bunch of device nodes. You probably have some other file in there which was accidentally created by something like # verbosecommand /dev/nlul The following command should reveal the culprit: du -h /dev/* | grep -v 0B -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: quick informal survey: OpenSSH broken?
On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Brian F. Feldman wrote: For what it's worth, I tend to simply set Protocol 1,2 in my .ssh/config and for the default case, it works fine (just like it used to). I don't want to make that policy decision, though, because we will be better off when everyone moves to the protocol version 2, so it's reasonable for the default to make things difficult to encourage the switch. I support the OpenSSH developers' plan here. FWIW, I do the same in my .ssh/config because I work in a heterogeneous computing environment where my home directory is NFS automounted. Some operating systems come with SSH daemons still installed by default as 1,2. The newer operating systems, including most of our linux installs, are 2,1 by default. I use RSA keys to authenticate and it's easier to just have one keypair to worry about. When every machine I use has sshv2 support and does it by default, then I'll kill the RSA keys and generate DSA keys. It's quite annoying that systems which have 2,1 in their sshd_config won't detect that I have RSA keys in .ssh but no DSA keys and go ahead and select sshv1 on their own. -- Brandon D. Valentine [EMAIL PROTECTED] The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views ... which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering. - Doctor Who, Face of Evil To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: New entropy harvesting sysctl's enabled in rc
On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Doug Barton wrote: Appropriate rc.conf(5) entries will be coming in a seperate commit. I am working on a general cleanup/update of that file, but I plan to wait till the reality in rc.conf is closer to what we want it to be. This is only tangentially related but while you're talking about a cleanup of the rc.conf(5) file, did anyone ever work up a patchset for the NetBSD rc system that was discussed several months ago? -- Brandon D. Valentine [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." -- Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: [current] Re: Confusing error messages from shell image activation
On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Michael C . Wu wrote: I know I should not jump into this bikeshed. But IMHO, whereever we have our packages install to, we should also place our ports metadata (/var/db/pkg) and the ports skeleton in the same place, preferably a mountpoint. This allow me to switch between different sets of installation with ease. (No, please do not tell me to change PREFIX and mv /usr/local /usr/local.bak) With this setup, I can rm -rf whatever place this goes, and have a clean system again. For the ports developers, we can switch between configurations without the need for chroots or jails taking up disk space. I would agree strongly with this. Something like: /usr/ pkg/ bin/ db/ -- /var/db/pkg, why is that in /var anyway? it's not exactly temporary or transient information. etc/ include/ info/ lib/ libexec/ man/ sbin/ share/ src/ -- /usr/ports/* This would make it easy for one to return his system to a pristine state. Simply removing /usr/pkg would get rid of all third-party information. It makes sense to package this entire directory together. If one wanted a fresh system he could remove /usr/pkg, do a make world, and tell mtree to remove anything not in the system mtree file. -- Brandon D. Valentine [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." -- Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Confusing error messages from shell image activation
On Sun, 10 Dec 2000, Brooks Davis wrote: On Sun, Dec 10, 2000 at 09:37:53AM -0600, Mike Meyer wrote: Interesting. What other OS distribution put things that went into /usr/local on their distribution media? I'm fairly sure that some of the software distributed by SGI on their unsupported free software media does this. Since I'm sitting in front of an SGI answering this email I'll throw in that it's actually put in /usr/freeware. It's quite annoying. I much prefer FreeBSD's /usr/local. My path under IRIX has to include: /usr/bin/X11:/usr/local/bin:/usr/freeware/bin:/usr/gnu/bin:/usr/ucb:/usr/bsd:/usr/etc:/usr/gfx to encompass the various places software installs itself. It's so much nicer under FreeBSD to have one location to worry about third-party binaries showing up. -- Brandon D. Valentine [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." -- Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Confusing error messages from shell image activation
On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Mike Meyer wrote: There are other places where FreeBSD doesn't comply with the appropriate standard - packages vs. FHS, for instance. I claim that We don't seek to comply with the arbitrarily devised linux filesystem standard. We comply with hier(5), a standard steeped in decades of tradition. -- Brandon D. Valentine [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." -- Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Confusing error messages from shell image activation
On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Brandon D. Valentine wrote: On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Mike Meyer wrote: There are other places where FreeBSD doesn't comply with the appropriate standard - packages vs. FHS, for instance. I claim that We don't seek to comply with the arbitrarily devised linux filesystem standard. We comply with hier(5), a standard steeped in decades of tradition. And before somebody else jumps in, yes I fat-fingered the numpad. That's hier(7), not 5. -- Brandon D. Valentine [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." -- Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Confusing error messages from shell image activation
On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, David O'Brien wrote: On Sat, Dec 09, 2000 at 08:28:07PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: like NetBSD (and the corresponding sources under /usr/pkgsrc). Please stick to reasonable ideas. To move the CVS repo from ports/ to pkgsrc/ would be totally unreasonable. I've always thought /usr/pkg/src a logical place to put it. -- Brandon D. Valentine [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." -- Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: write(2) returns error saying read only filesystem when tryingto write to a partition
On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: No, and no. You misunderstand the problem. A disk on IBM PC compatible computers has the following format: | Partition table | Data| | Slice 1 | Slice 2 | Slice 3 | Slice 4 | | Disklabel | Data | | c | |a|b|f|g| That is really an excellent diagram. That should be in an FAQ somewhere. Doc committers? -- Brandon D. Valentine [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." -- Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Problem With Man Formatting
On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Thomas D. Dean wrote: Since a 12/6 cvsup and 'make world', I notice a problem with the output of man. The output consists of one block of justified text. The headers, etc., are missing. Could this be a result of the recent groff upgrade? -- Brandon D. Valentine [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." -- Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: new rc.network6 and rc.firewall6
On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Brian O'Shea wrote: Sounds interesting. To add a new rc script to the system, do you have to add an entry to an "rc order list" somewhere (in addition to adding the new script)? How is that handled? The nice (or clumsy, depending on your point of view) part about the SysV way is that the order in which the rc scripts are executed is implicit in the scripts' names. Of course, they have added a symlink maze (worse, hard links on HP-UX) on top of that, making it tedious to maintain rc scripts by hand (maybe that was by design). Hmm I don't have any NetBSD machines running the later 1.5 revisions yet, so I've not seen the new scripts, but I would say that adding a new script to a list of rc files would be much less hassle than adding an entry in a monolithic /etc/rc to process that new file. -- Brandon D. Valentine [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." -- Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: new rc.network6 and rc.firewall6
On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, David O'Brien wrote: On Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 05:07:42PM -0400, Brandon D. Valentine wrote: Hmm I don't have any NetBSD machines running the later 1.5 revisions yet, so I've not seen the new scripts, lynx ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD-current/src/etc/rc.d/ Thanks, I was gonna go find those after I finished what I was doing, but you've saved me a few keystrokes. =) I like the concept of them quite a bit. I think it definitely shows some thought on how to keep the advantages of each system. I would support a move toward a system like this. One thing that would be nice is a database somewhere of which of services from /etc/rc.d are running. This would enable one to build a nice GUI or curses based tool for showing the services running, and allowing for the stopping, starting, and restarting of those services. Basically just add a feature such that after a service is started, the pid is written to a universally standard directory for all rc controlled services. That would be sufficient. It would then be nice to write such a tool, manipulatable either via command line options or an interactive curses mode, which would manage those services. Sort of the equivalent of SysV's chkconfig command, but actually useful. =) So that one could say: rccntl amd restart or just run rccntrl and get a curses window displaying the services in /etc/rc.d currently started and possibly another window showing those not started, and the option to move a service from one list to the other, thereby starting to stopping it, as well the option to just restart it. -- Brandon D. Valentine [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." -- Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: new rc.network6 and rc.firewall6
On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: Still, it would be better if I could choose between "classical" and "new" startup layout, say, somewhere at the installation stage. Well if you're that stubborn there's no reason that the "new" layout could not be compiled into a monolithic script. In fact perhaps you could be the one to step forward and write the code to compile that script. ;-) -- Brandon D. Valentine [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." -- Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: new rc.network6 and rc.firewall6
On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Garrett Rooney wrote: That's an idea! Gotta co recent -CURRENT right now! might want to port the netbsd code first, since AFAIK this stuff isn't in current ;-) Indeed it's not, but nice to seem him so eager. =) -- Brandon D. Valentine [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." -- Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: /boot partition?
On Tue, 17 Oct 2000, Terry Lambert wrote: I could have a 40G /, and not worry about the cylinder spanning problem, if my /boot were in a seperate (low) partition. I could have a / that was of an FS type not understood by the kernel, until after a module defining the FS type had been loaded. I could have a / that was on a controller for which I did not have a device comiled into my kernel, and only loaded it as a module from an FS type that it _did_ understand. Terry Lambert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Garth, I think that was a haiku. -- Brandon D. Valentine [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." -- Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: POSTFIX-- Wietse: tweak and go! --pkg port: both duds
On Mon, 9 Oct 2000, attila! wrote: Thank you; I will refine it out, plus get it ready for inclusion in the /usr/src/contrib tree if so permitted. I am a firm believer in KISS for the unwashed, and will therefore establish the initial configuration with defaults to eliminate the questions in the install script. I am perfectly well willing to maintain it in cvs format. You and a million other crusaders. Sorry to rain on your parade but what you're discussing borders on a religious jihad. Were we all not already tired of the endless flamefests that spawn from every discussion concerning the MTA in the base system, I'm sure you would have a mailbox full of flames by now. If you go look through the archives you will find countless threads waging the sendmail vs. qmail vs. postfix vs. exim vs. "i wrote this simple mailer last week..." war. The fact of the matter remains that it will take an event of astronomical proportions to finally reach a consensus on that issue. Quite frankly, if you prepare postfix for inclusion in the contrib tree your time will be completely wasted. Sendmail is there, works, and is being actively maintained by a member of the actual sendmail team. That's far more than can be said for other parts of the contrib tree and if you'd like to help out I'm sure there are other areas that need more attention. I'm save you the frustration now, please, don't waste your time. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: 1131 unneeded includes in the kernel...
On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Matthew Jacob wrote: Oh- don't get me wrong. Valuable info. Thanks. What would be very cool is to feed this into another script which strips these unnecesary includes out. Then do a test build of LINT in your local tree and if it succeeds commit a mass removal of them. The same concept could be applied to the greater source tree. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
PRE_SMPNG snap
I would like to request that someone with access to ftp://current.freebsd.org build a snapshot release based entirely on the PRE_SMPNG CVS branch so those of us wishing to install current will have a better starting point. The snaps currently being built come directly from HEAD and hence are ridden with the instability inherent in current at the moment. It would be nice if there was one snap built directly from the branch point and put in ftp://current.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/i386/PRE_SMPNG or something to that effect. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: PRE_SMPNG snap
On Sat, 16 Sep 2000, John Baldwin wrote: Err, AFAIK, the only instability atm is that under heavy load some ahc controllers seem to hang (or possibly the ahc driver is getting out of sorts and hanging.) However, the problem is not so bad that you can't I've had a ton of experience with ahc lately, as those of you who follow -questions, -stable, or -scsi know. r1.48 of aic7xxx.c is horribly broken. I can't get current snaps after that revision was committed to even boot on machines which use aic7892 or 29160 controllers. Every boot it panic's immediately after probing the scsi controllers. I haven't had time to review just what dfr's changes in 1.48 did or why they might be causing this, but it doesn't look pretty. There are some pretty major diff's between 1.47 and 1.48. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: PRE_SMPNG snap
On Sat, 16 Sep 2000, Mike Meyer wrote: Brandon D. Valentine writes: On Sat, 16 Sep 2000, John Baldwin wrote: Err, AFAIK, the only instability atm is that under heavy load some ahc controllers seem to hang (or possibly the ahc driver is getting out of sorts and hanging.) However, the problem is not so bad that you can't I've had a ton of experience with ahc lately, as those of you who follow -questions, -stable, or -scsi know. r1.48 of aic7xxx.c is horribly broken. I can't get current snaps after that revision was committed to even boot on machines which use aic7892 or 29160 controllers. How about 7890 controllers? I was about to step from PRE_SMPNG back to -current, but you've just made me nervous! I don't have any 7890s to test on. However, if you are already running PRE_SMPNG then you should have r1.48 since it was tagged with that as well. Go for it. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: newbus docs
On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Warner Losh wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Julian Elischer writes: : Someone once mentionned an actual : document but I've been unable to find it. : Was it my imagination? : (and if so, why isn't there one?) What do you mean actual document? man pages are actual documents. What kind of document do you want? Probably something like this: http://people.freebsd.org/~asmodai/newbus-draft.txt or this: http://www.daemonnews.org/27/newbus-intro.html Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: IDE RAID (HPT-370/Abit KT7-RAID) install questions..
On Sat, 26 Aug 2000, Thomas Stromberg wrote: Hopefully this thread will save the next poor soul who tries this. Indeed. Now the question is, what ATA-100 RAID solutions are there that are fully supported? I'd guess the Promise board, but the last time I guessed (err.. last week), I got a supported chipset with an unsupported feature :) Currently the only IDE RAID cards supported are the 3Ware ones. For a list of supported RAID hardware one should always check: http://people.freebsd.org/~msmith/RAID/index.html Just so I don't go do anything stupid, anyone secretly working on drivers for this behind our backs, or is it as good as junk? You could turn off the fake RAID in the BIOS, use it strictly as an ATA100 controller and use the vinum software RAID driver to do some real RAID. Info on that is available from: http://www.vinumvm.org/ Another alternative, and the one that I have been using, is to order one of the Arena series external IDE RAID boxes from raidweb.com. They're pretty cool little pieces of hardware. I'm also using IBM 75GXPs with mine. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: USER PPP
[Wrap text at 72 columns.] On Wed, 9 Aug 2000, justin wrote: What I would like to do right now, however, is guarantee that anytime, anyday, barring a problem with my ISP, that my box is connected to the internet. I have it currently setup to dial the internet when it boots and that seems, so far to work ok. My problem you ask? My ISP implements a 5 minute no transfer policy, they disconnect my connection after 5 minutes of 'idling'. What I would like to do is have some kind of check to verify if I am still connected to the internet and if not, execute it. I was thinking some type of script running from crontab every 5 minutes. If I am not connected, then automatically reconnect to the internet. Read the ppp(8) manpage and you will discover the -ddial flag which implements the functionality you have discussed. It would probably be more advisable to use the -auto flag though, but that's your own decision to make. Read the manpage. This is really a -questions issue. Now you know, don't ask questions like this here again, it's the wrong place for it. Read the mailing list charters at: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL for more information. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: hotmail now running win2000
Take this to -chat or -advocacy, PLEASE. This is nowhere near a relevant topic for -current. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: When Good DIMMS go Bad (or how I fixed my sig11)
On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, David Scheidt wrote: Ah, that tells you have a problem. It unfortunatly, doesn't distinguish a bad memory module from a bad memory bus. One of my abits blew up a bit ago with SIGSEGVs, I swapped memory in and around till I got to the point that I realized that as long as I didn't populate the last DIMM slot, it worked fine. It's not long for this earth, that machine. Reminds me of the 4-5 SIMM pair on Tyan Tomcat P5 SMP motherboards. They're notorious for not working. I've got a pair of those boards and cannot put exactly 6 SIMMs despite the claims of requiring pairs. It *really* wants SIMMs installed 4 at a time. They were nice boards otherwise though. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: vga0, atkbdc0, fdc0 attaching to ISA bus?
On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Donn Miller wrote: Anyone know why these devices want to attach to the ISA bus on a primarily PCI bus machine? My MoBo is an Asus SP97-V, which has a mixture of ISA and PCI slots. I was wondering maybe if even machines that have all PCI slots, that there's still an internal ISA bus? Check out my dmesg. I've got a machine with an Abit SL6 w/ AGP/PCI/CNR onboard, but no ISA slots, and it still has an ISA to PCI bridge built in. Some of the devices still register with the kernel on the ISA bus, even though they are quite obviously connected to the PCI bus. I suspect that some of these devices may be tied to the ISA bus in the BIOS for arcane PC/AT reasons. I would be interested to know details though, if someone could spare a moment to give an over-the-top explanation of why this is true. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: vga0, atkbdc0, fdc0 attaching to ISA bus?
On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Warner Losh wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Warner Losh writes: : The reason you have a ISA to PCI bridge still is that the serial : ports, parallel ports, floppy, keyboard and mouse devices still live : on the ISA bus. They aren't full PCI nodes just yet in most hardware : designs (I've yet to see a floppy, keyboard or mouse on the pci bus, : but I'm sure people will tell me where I can find such beasts). I should have also added: Even though there are no ISA expansion slots on your machine, you still have an ISA bus living inside (unless it is a legacy free machine we keep hearing about, which I didn't think was on the market). The PC-99 standard (not to be confused with the Japanese PC-98 machines) states that you cannot have a ISA expansion slot, but a later clarification to the standard states clearly that you can still have ISA devices built into the mother board. In other words, No ISA slots doesn't necessarily mean that the machine doesn't have an ISA bus. Well, I understand that, my question is, why are true PCI devices like video controllers still shown as being on isa0 by the kernel? I wanted an explanation of that. That's what doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps there's a valid PC/AT hardware limitation reason for it. Otherwise it seems silly. =) Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: vga0, atkbdc0, fdc0 attaching to ISA bus?
On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, Brandon D. Valentine wrote: Well, I understand that, my question is, why are true PCI devices like video controllers still shown as being on isa0 by the kernel? I wanted an explanation of that. That's what doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps there's a valid PC/AT hardware limitation reason for it. Otherwise it seems silly. =) If you can forget something, so can I. ;-) I should have added: vga0: S3 Trio graphics accelerator rev 0x00 int a irq 12 on pci0.16.0 vga0 at 0x3b0-0x3df maddr 0xa msize 131072 on isa ^ ^^^ That's what I'm talking about. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: vga0, atkbdc0, fdc0 attaching to ISA bus?
On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: recognized to be on the ISA bus. But, the reality is that the PCI video card is a half-PCI and half-ISA device... Thank you, Kazu. That sucks, but at least it makes sense now. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: randomdev entropy gathering is really weak
On Mon, 17 Jul 2000, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: On 17-Jul-00 Leif Neland wrote: If you can't reach a NTP server, you are not connected to the internet. In that case you don't need to worry so much about security... Not clear. I might not be connected at boot time but could well become connected later. [Why do so few people manage the RFC compliant space in their .sig? i.e. "-- "] But by then you've already booted and other events have generated some entropy for the random device. You no longer need seeding. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: dc driver and underruns (was: Strangeness with 4.0-S)
On Thu, 13 Jul 2000, Stephen McKay wrote: Guess it will show up if you measure latencies (or your application is doing lots of RPCs). But as soon as there is a cheap 100baseT switch in the path to the destination, there will be store-and-forward at work ;-) Does anyone here actually measure these latencies? I know for a fact that nothing I've ever done would or could be affected by extra latencies that are as small as the ones we are discussing. Does anybody at all depend on the start-transmitting-before-DMA-completed feature we are discussing? I don't like the idea of removing that feature. Perhaps it should be a sysctl or ifconfig option, but it should definitely remain available. Those minute latencies are critical to those of us who use MPI for complex parallel calculations. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
On Fri, 7 Jul 2000, Garrett Wollman wrote: On Thu, 6 Jul 2000 22:51:06 -0400 (EDT), "Brandon D. Valentine" [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Sounds like a good enough reason to me to port the newer NetBSD LFS code to FreeBSD. Or, even better, for someone to implement background fsck for soft updates. Yes, that too would be wonderful. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
On Thu, 6 Jul 2000, Chris D. Faulhaber wrote: Many Linux distributions do this too. It seems about as useful as a car's idiot light(s)... IMO, I would prefer to see useful information during boot than that eye-candy. I'd prefer to buy a box of blinkenlights to put in a spare 5.25" bay and let the dmesg on boot reflect only what I need to know as an admin when the box comes up. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: /etc/rc.shutdown calls local scripts now
On Thu, 6 Jul 2000, Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group wrote: An Alpha my team manages with 1 TB of images on UFS takes 4 hours to fsck. Sounds like a good enough reason to me to port the newer NetBSD LFS code to FreeBSD. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: The position of {boot,fixit}_crunch.conf
On Wed, 28 Jun 2000, Wilko Bulte wrote: Rather, I mean a *small* bootable CD image like NetBSD uses, essentially a 'super floppy'. Which would then be suitable for a Net install too. There is already a LS120 (?) image similar to that I think. Which, btw, would be a nifty thing to have if you've got an alpha capable of bootstrapping over the network. I've just installed NetBSD/sparc on a couple of sparcs using NetBSD's boot.net images and an NFS mounted root directory as the install media. It's very cool and saved me the trouble of tracking down a SCSI floppy or CDROM. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Now softupdates are BSD licenced can they go in smoothly?
On Thu, 22 Jun 2000, George Michaelson wrote: So does this mean the whole shebang of find/read/link/recompile can finally end? NetBSD got rid of this ages ago. Well Kirk McKusick has already committed the license change, a la: http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=524952+0+current/cvs-all If you follow that thread you will find discussion on cvs-committers about including it in GENERIC, etc. With the license issue resolved I don't see any reason it couldn't be permanently symlinked. I'm sure this will happen over the next few days. Watch cvs-all for related commits. Brandon D. Valentine -- bandix at looksharp.net | bandix at structbio.vanderbilt.edu "Truth suffers from too much analysis." -- Ancient Fremen Saying To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: xmms broken by either libc_r or sound
On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Dan Nelson wrote: In the last episode (Jun 14), Otter said: On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Chris Piazza wrote: Yes backout recent changes to sys/dev/sound/pcm/channel.c. (a few days) How does one backout changes? I thought once it was committed, and the make world process is complete, it was just that: committed. You make another commit, undoing what your first commit did. That way there is a record of what you did, and hopefully why it was backed out. For more info: info -n "(cvs)Merging two revisions" I honestly don't think his question was from a committers standpoint. I think he wanted to know how to back them out locally for his own system. To do that he needs to read the handbook entries for staying current with FreeBSD, specifically the stuff on anoncvs. Then to back them out he needs to use cvs to retrieve an older revision of the affected files via anoncvs and make a new world. Brandon D. Valentine -- "You should believe in death, taxes, Larry Ellison's loathing of Bill Gates and Intel's inability to ship a working chipset." - Dr Spinola, The Register, 05/13/2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: xmms broken by either libc_r or sound
On Thu, 15 Jun 2000, Jacques A . Vidrine wrote: Or use cvsweb, which is probably easier for the casual user. Definitely easier for the casual user who's tracking -STABLE. However, I feel that to succeed tracking -CURRENT it pays to invest a minimal amount of time learning at least the basics of cvs. =) Brandon D. Valentine -- "You should believe in death, taxes, Larry Ellison's loathing of Bill Gates and Intel's inability to ship a working chipset." - Dr Spinola, The Register, 05/13/2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: VT520 support
On Mon, 12 Jun 2000, Otter wrote:
Does FreeBSD support the vt520? I've looked around in documentation,
but haven't been able to find anything about it. If it isn't yet, I could
probably get my hands on a spare (note single, not plural) if someone is
seriously interested in supporting it. TIA.
-Otter
I don't see an entry in termcap.src,v1.90 under HEAD for vt520. However,
it is in esr's v11.0.1 of the termcap.src file. This file is copyrightless
and appears 100% compatible with the current termcap. Is there any
reason it is not merged in regularly? Regardless, here is the termcap
entry for a vt520 in the termcap syntax:
vt520|DEC VT520:\
:am:mi:xn:xo:\
:co#80:li#24:vt#3:\
:*6=\E[4~:@0=\E[1~:RA=\E[?7l:\
:S5=\E[?0;0r\E\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h:\
:SA=\E[?7h:\
:ac=``aaffggjjkkllmmnnooppqqrrssttuuvvwwxxyyzz{{||}}~~:\
:ae=\E(B:al=\E[L:as=\E(0:bl=^G:cd=\E[J:ce=\E[K:\
:cl=\E[H\E[2J:cm=\E[%i%d;%dH:cr=^M:cs=\E[%i%d;%dr:\
:dc=\E[P:dl=\E[M:do=\E[B:ei=\E[4l:ho=\E[H:\
:i2=\E[?67h\E[64;1"p:if=/usr/share/tabset/vt300:\
:im=\E[4h:is=\E[1;24r\E[24;1H:k0=\E[29~:k1=\EOP:k2=\EOQ:\
:k3=\EOR:k4=\EOS:k5=\E[17~:k6=\E[18~:k7=\E[19~:k8=\E[20~:\
:k9=\E[21~:k;=\E[29~:kD=\E[3~:kI=\E[2~:kN=\E[6~:kP=\E[5~:\
:kb=^H:kd=\E[B:kl=\E[D:kr=\E[C:ku=\E[A:le=^H:mb=\E[5m:\
:md=\E[1m:me=\E[m:mr=\E[7m:nd=\E[C:r3=\E[?67h\E[64;1"p:\
:rc=\E8:rf=/usr/share/tabset/vt300:sc=\E7:se=\E[m:sf=\ED:\
:so=\E[7m:sr=\EM:ta=^I:ue=\E[m:up=\E[A:us=\E[4m:
Brandon D. Valentine
--
"You should believe in death, taxes, Larry Ellison's loathing of Bill
Gates and Intel's inability to ship a working chipset."
- Dr Spinola, The Register, 05/13/2000
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Re: stupid FS questions
On Tue, 30 May 2000, Zhihui Zhang wrote: http://thc.inferno.tusculum.edu/files/thc/bsdkern.html That stuff is excellent. It belongs in doc/. Any chances of it making it there? Brandon D. Valentine -- "You should believe in death, taxes, Larry Ellison's loathing of Bill Gates and Intel's inability to ship a working chipset." - Dr Spinola, The Register, 05/13/2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Motif is now Open Source 8)
On Tue, 16 May 2000, Nate Williams wrote: Unlike X (which rarely changes), I suspect the Motif stuff to change alot. I'm unclear on what gyrations you are expecting from a mature API codified in an IEEE standard. As long as you're using the Motif standard interface in your code you should have nothing to worry about. Brandon D. Valentine -- "You should believe in death, taxes, Larry Ellison's loathing of Bill Gates and Intel's inability to ship a working chipset." - Dr Spinola, The Register, 05/13/2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: rc.d startup scripts
On Sat, 6 May 2000, Will Andrews wrote:
Hello,
I've noticed an inconsistency among our ports. It seems that not every port
that installs rc.d startup scripts includes methods to not only startup,
but also shutdown and/or restart, where appropriate. (Sent to -ports for
ports hackers' opinions.)
You have answered your own question. What exists in ${PREFIX}/etc/rc.d
are startup scripts, *not* shutdown or restart scripts.
Shouldn't this sort of thing be standardized? And maybe a similar method be
integrated into /etc/rc for restarting base system daemons? (Sent to
-current for src hackers' opinions.)
You mean our init system should look like RedHat's? The OS is named
Free_BSD_ because we use not only the source code from the BSD team at
UCB, but because we practice their OS philosophy as closely as is still
relevant to the industry. We use BSD init, not SVR4, and I don't see
any reason for that to be altered.
BTW, I don't read -ports.
Brandon D. Valentine
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Illegitimi non carborundum.
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Re: MVP3 problems - current state?
On Tue, 2 May 2000, John Hay wrote: What board make/version is this ? There is no name or version on the board itself. The box it came in said it is a "A+ Mainboard" and on the side there is a label that says "APRO/BAT Motherboard". And it is made in China. If it was sold as an electronics product in the United States it _will_ have an FCC ID printed somewhere on it. If you can locate that number and run it through the FCC's ID database @ fcc.gov you can determine the manufacturer. From there a good net search for that manufacturer's name should at least turn up a .ch or .tw address with more info on the board. Good luck. Brandon D. Valentine -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Illegitimi non carborundum. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Patchkits: Was :Re: SMP changes and breaking kld object modulecompatibility
On Tue, 25 Apr 2000, Wilko Bulte wrote: OK. But you do have to uniquely identify the binary that needs to be patched. So, my question is when you generate 10x the same binary, will all these 10 binaries have the same MD5 checksum? In other words: if people did a local buildworld once on a -release sourcetree will all the executables have the same MD5 as the ones on the -release cdrom? Any place I have used the pronoun 'you' below is a reference to Andrzej Bialecki, originator of the thread, and not Wilko Bulte, who happened to provide a nice starting point for my response. Ideally, yes. But this assumes that the binaries are built on the same architecture with the same compiler options(especially optimizations). If you feed it the same asm as86 should always generate the same binary. Of course the minute you change compiler versions or add a different -march or -O flag to gcc you run the risk of ending up with slightly different binary code. To do this using checksums would be problematic. The only way something like this is feasible is if the binaries themselves contain information about what version they are. In other words some sort of a header in the binary which contains the RCS version number the binary was compiled from so that whatever method you were using to sync your "binary" trees(no pun intended) so to speak can compare RCS tags just as you would do with source. If you were to implement this you'd probably check the binary versions against the remote repository and then any outdated binaries would have a replacement downloaded into /usr/upgrade or some such directory where one could later chdir and run a Makefile from single user mode to move those new binaries into place. Since there are already servers which generate nightly binary snapshots the problem of keeping a -STABLE binary set available is already solved. If you want to do this you need to come up with a cvsup patchset to support this and a proposal for how to keep RCS tags available in the binary header without breaking compatibility. You also need to believe strongly in the necessity of such a system and you need to convince the project that it is important and will not place a further strain on the project's resources. Ideally a system like this could be used to replace the current upgrade knob in sysinstall. I just don't know that this is as pressing an issue at the moment as some of the other projects going on in the source tree so if it is going to happen someone(namely you) is going to need to volunteer. Brandon D. Valentine -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Illegitimi non carborundum. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: Patchkits: Was :Re: SMP changes and breaking kld object modulecompatibility
On Tue, 25 Apr 2000, Kris Kennaway wrote: You've never run ident(1), right? :) Very cool! No I hadn't. I was working with the assumption that it was probably possible, but I know very little about how RCS actually works. I just know that it does work and that's always been enough for me to use it. Thanks for pointing that out. If Mr. Bialecki is still interested in doing this, his job just got easier than I anticipated. =) Brandon D. Valentine -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Illegitimi non carborundum. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: SMP changes and breaking kld object module compatibility
On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Kenneth Wayne Culver wrote: I believe that it depends on what changes were made since the last recompile, although it is good practice to at least recompile the modules when the kernel is recompiled. In my opinion the best way to handle things like this is to add a modules target to the kernel Makefile which would call src/sys/modules/Makefile and allow users who would perhaps never venture into src/sys except when heading straight for src/sys/i386/conf to easily update their modules. It makes little sense to have modules under src/sys and in the src-sys collection if the only time they are routinely rebuilt is through a complete make world. Isn't the idea of having a seperate Makefile for src/sys so that *all* kernel level code can be recompiled and/or updated without the user having to possess all of src or knowledge of the world process? I know I'm not the first person to raise the issue, but I don't think I should be the last either. I think it's a sound architectual decision and 100% inline with FreeBSD's commitment to accomodate users of all skill levels. Brandon D. Valentine -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Illegitimi non carborundum. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: SMP changes and breaking kld object module compatibility
On Tue, 25 Apr 2000, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: Because if we do not provide a STABLE ABI, we WON'T get third-party (binary only) kernel modules. I'm very divided in this issue. 4.x has just started, and would be seriously impaired if no further improvements to it's SMP get in. On the other hand, if we can't garantee third party vendors a stable ABI, we won't get third party vendors. The number one excuse large third party server vendors use to justify use of NT over Linux on their high end SMP systems is the poor performance of Linux SMP. This is a tremendous opportunity for FreeBSD to take market share. People are seeing the virtues of free, open source operating systems in the server farm and providing top notch SMP support in FreeBSD will help to see that we make further inroads that the Linux guys do. If the BSDi code assists us in improving SMP performance and if the corporate backing helps our PR image, then we could be in for a fun ride. This is the time to start thinking in terms of "What can we do better?" or we're going to lose the battle. Sure, those changes could go into 5.x and be released when RELENG_5 is branched a year from now. But in this business, a year is 6 months too late. Think about that before you object to what appear to be vast improvements in the performance of the RELENG_4 branch while it is just getting off the ground. Brandon D. Valentine -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Illegitimi non carborundum. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: SMP changes and breaking kld object module compatibility
On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Alok K. Dhir wrote: Totally off topic question that I've wondered for some time now - what does MFC stand for? According to the FAQ section located on the web @ http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/misc.html#AEN3908 Q: What does 'MFC' mean? A: MFC is an acronym for 'Merged From -CURRENT.' It's used in the CVS logs to denote when a change was migrated from the CURRENT to the STABLE branches. A quick search for MFC right from the freebsd.org main page would have returned this information. Brandon D. Valentine -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Illegitimi non carborundum. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
missing functionality
This thread began on -STABLE; I am moving it to -CURRENT and have crossposted. Please, followups to -CURRENT. On Sat, 22 Apr 2000, Jonathan Michaels wrote: actually see bad blocks your disk is about to die. IIRC, the code was suffering from bitrot and the drives that really needed it will (ESDI and MFM mostly) aren't supported in 5.0. and what of all the people who still use this kind of hardware ? I hate to have to ride on the heels of this scathing piece of criticism, but I'm confident that the other members of the lists will probably eat this guy alive. With that I leave Mr. Michaels to defend himself and move on with a new thread. The removal of kernel support for so-called winchester devices from HEAD is a bit of a perplexing issue for me. On the one hand I understand the multifold advantages of the new ata driver and appreciate it enormously. However, FreeBSD just went ahead with its first release to include support for the MCA bus. The vast majority of MCA bus machines in existence utilize ESDI because they predate the UDMA and ATA66 efforts. If we are to support MCA, how can we drop support for ESDI? I know that the wd driver duplicates a significant amount of the funtionality now present in ata and that having both of them in the kernel would be of questionable value to most users. Surely there must be some middle ground which would include support for ESDI, MFM, RLL, and XT hardcards in a seperate driver, without duplicating the functionality of ata and creating code bloat. I am not familiar with the wd driver as it stands now or if the above is possible, but I would like some feedback on just what issues currently surround the atticizing of wd without replacing its functionality. Brandon D. Valentine -- "...and as for hackers, we note that all of those known to The Register are so strapped financially that seizing their property would be tantamount to squeezing blood from a stone." -- The Register, 02/17/2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
