RE: questions on setting up a mail server

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jim Stapleton
> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 1:36 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: questions on setting up a mail server
>
>
> I figured I'd try cyrus, I remember hearing that one is a good mail
> server. But I'm new to the mail server thing, and I'm not even sure
> where to look for some of this stuff if anyone can help. Also, I plan
> on just doing POP3, and only allowing secure connections - if anyone
> can reccomend a good, simple server for that, that they think is
> better than Cyrus, I won't object.
>
> My main question is on authentication. I was looking at authentication
> types in kmail to get an idea of what I can use, and I found:
> Clear text
> LOGIN
> PLAIN
> CRAM-MD5
> Digest-MD5
> NTLM
> GSSAPI
> APOP
>
>
> I know clear text is not what I want - if I remember, that's
> unencrypted. Does TLS/SSL make this a non-issue? What about the other
> methdods?

Much of this depends on the mail clients that your going to be
hitting the server with.

The first group does encryption of the password only.

The TLS/SSL stuff does encryption of everything - password, mail contents,
etc.

The TLS stuff requires you put a SSL cert into the client.  Most people,
not wanting to pay Verisign for this, make their own self-signed certs.
There is a large amount of arcane magic to do this, and to get it accepted
into Windows, so that an Outlook client will do SSL.  You cannot really find
recipies out there to do it - but you can pick up bits and pieces here and
there and learn a lot about SSL and assemble a recipie.  Basically, you
want to create a self-signed root certificate, then sign your POP3
mailserver
certificate with that, and put the self-signed cert into the root store in
Windows.  Not only can you sign your pop3 certs with this, you can sign
your www, imap, pop3, smtp, etc. etc. etc. certificates with your root CA
and then you won't get bitching from your windows clients.

The first group is a different story.  If you want to get Outlook to
work with that, you can only use NTLM.  The developers of all of the
various packages dislike NTLM so they force you to use arcane makefile
options and such to build your system so that it will support NTLM.
Eudora, by contrast, supports only APOP and Netscape mail only supports
CRAM-MD5 and as I recall bugs in the clients basically make it
impossible for a server that supports all these encryption types to
work with all clients.

The honest to god truth of the matter is that encrypting your POP3
and SMTP auth passwords is difficult to do on a large scale no matter
what road you pick to do it, so there is really not a lot of point to
doing it unless your in a rather limited environment.  I would definitely
not bother in a corporate environment where you have maybe a handful of
road warriors that would be on sniffable networks - just make sure their
pop3 login and password isn't the same as their network login ID and
password and the worst a cracker can do is steal their mail.  whop
de do.  Chances are far more likely their laptops will be busted into
by a robot loaded on the laptop that sniffs keystrokes.  By contrast in
a creaky old college network with a bunch of dumb network hubs and a
couple dormotories full of jerkoffs looking to prove they are
hackers, you probably would want to encrypt it via SSL.

Ted

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RE: doubts about the freebsd devil

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pollywog
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 8:50 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: doubts about the freebsd devil
> 
> 
> On Friday 31 August 2007 15:32:26 Jerry McAllister wrote:
> 
> >
> > There will also probably be loads of people replying to tell you
> > that it is not a devil but a character representing a daemon that
> > is a helpful sprite and that it is not a logo, but a mascot.
> 
> I think that is much less different than the difference between a 
> toad and a 
> frog.

Them's fighting words - don't you realize an entire subgroup of the
FreeBSD developers spent untold amounts of time and effort setting up
a rigged contest to attempt to convince the userbase that there was
such a difference, in order to replace the logo with a round red sex
toy?

Ted
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RE: spammers harvesting emaill address from this list

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Erik Trulsson
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:52 AM
> To: fbsd2
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ORG
> Subject: Re: spammers harvesting emaill address from this list
> 
> 
> For this list (freebsd-questions@) in particular it is intentionally and
> explicitly the case that one does not need to be subscribed to post here.
> This is because it is the main support forum for FreeBSD, and much
> documentation exists directing people to ask their questions here.
> 
> The list admins do have their priorities straight - they just 
> have different
> priorities than you do.
> 

Probably the list admins figure that anyone who posts here is an
advanced user type who understands how to setup spam filters that
work.

Ted
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RE: FreeBSD 6.2. Can I get 128x48 (or similar) console screens?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Nikos
> Vassiliadis
>
> > I'm not sure
> > I prefer the alternative, something like Ubuntu or PCLinux, where you
> > just shut your eyes, lie back and think of South Africa, not knowing
> > quite what's getting installed on your PC.
>
> That's not a very nice comment to do. Please, keep your feelings
> about continents/countries/Linux distributions out of here.
>

I really detest the politically correct, particularly the uneducated
politically correct.

"lie back and think of England" -

>From _Dictionary of Catchphrases_ (1995) by Nigel Rees:

"close your eyes and think of England": traditional advice given to women
when confronted with the inevitability of sexual intercourse, or jocular
encouragement to either sex about doing anything unpalatable.

South Africa is a tourism spot and boasts a number of popular game
preserves, it is -the- most advanced and developed country in Africa.
As a German it is understandable that he would have vacationed
there, he made a rather clever twist on the standard phrase.

Ted

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RE: 4.11 p19 on a hosted web site

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 2:16 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: 4.11 p19 on a hosted web site
> 
> 
> Hello Everyone.
> I have a domain hosted on a vary large Visa CISP compliant host 
> in the US of 
> A.
> Right now there software is
> freebsd 4.11-release p19
> mysql 4.0
> php4
> osCommerce 2.2 ms2.
> 
> I am wondering if this is something
> i need to worry about intil thay get
> up to speed on the above said software.
> 
> I know alot has changed the above software,
> mainly the freebsd 4.11 to 6.2 jump.
> but should i give a hoot about this as for
> my online CC processing ?
> Dont know where to post this
> as it has taken me this long to ask here at all.
> 

Assuming that your server is behind a firewall that is only
allowing inbound access to the osccommerce site software,
you can basically ignore all of the security problems of the
older FreeBSD and MySQL software.  A cracker can't exploit them.

Your big concern should be the application software itself,
ie: the "freebsd 4.11-release p19" and the "osCommerce 2.2 ms2"

Presumably this isn't open source software.  As such you are
utterly dependent on the application software vendor having
written the software in a secure manner.  You should initiate
a conversation with them immediately.

VISA does require 3rd party auditing of online credit card
taking software, it's in the card services contract.  This
software vendor should have regular 3rd party security audits
being done of their code, and should make the results available
to you.  If they cannot do this then both you and they are in
violation of VISA's contracts.

If a hole exists in the application software it is completely
immaterial if the cracker can use it to get root access to your
FreeBSD server.  A cracker isn't, in fact, even going to bother
trying.  What they want to steal are the actual customer credit card
numbers themselves and all they have to do is find a hole in the
application software.  Since the application software is handling
the card numbers, a cracker doesen't need any special permissions
to get at them, if they find a hole in the application software.

The fact of the matter is you could have the very latest version
of FreeBSD and the very latest version of mysql loaded, and if the
application has a hole, a cracker will use the hole to query all
the data they want out of your mysql database - because obviously
the application has to have permission to read it's own data.

Ted
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RE: Help! FreeBSD: 88.78 KBps, Linux: 624.95 KBps

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

One other thing you can try - set the ethernet adapter to 10BaseT half
duplex
and see if it gets better.

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kyrre Nygård
> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 7:12 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Help! FreeBSD: 88.78 KBps, Linux: 624.95 KBps
>
>
> Hello.
>
> My friend is switching to Linux because FreeBSD is failing on him.
>
> When downloading a file from a FreeBSD box and a Linux box on the same
> network, the FreeBSD box got 88.78 KBps whereas the Linux got 624.95
> Kbps. I have no idea what's wrong, but my man isn't really into good
> information design (e.g. taking something complex and making it easy),
> so his system is a mess. Maybe some of you can help me locate where the
> problem's at?
>
> Thanks guys,
> Kyrre
>
> # ifconfig -a
> sis0: flags=8843 mtu 1500
> options=8
> inet6 fe80::20e:a6ff:fe53:d066%sis0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1
> inet 67.143.227.66 netmask 0xfff8 broadcast 67.143.227.71
> inet 67.143.227.67 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.227.67
> inet 67.143.227.68 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.227.68
> inet 67.143.227.69 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.227.69
> inet 67.143.227.70 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.227.70
> inet 67.143.231.97 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.231.97
> inet 67.143.231.98 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.231.98
> inet 67.143.231.99 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.231.99
> inet 67.143.231.100 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.231.100
> inet 67.143.231.101 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.231.101
> inet 67.143.231.102 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.231.102
> ether 00:0e:a6:53:d0:66
> media: Ethernet autoselect (100baseTX )
> status: active
> plip0: flags=108810 mtu 1500
> lo0: flags=8049 mtu 16384
> inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128
> inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3
> inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff00
> pflog0: flags=141 mtu 33208
>
> #cat /etc/rc.conf
> ifconfig_sis0="inet 67.143.227.66  netmask 255.255.255.248"
> defaultrouter="67.143.227.65"
> hostname="his.box~com"
>
> ifconfig_sis0_alias0="67.143.227.67  netmask 0x"
> ifconfig_sis0_alias1="67.143.227.68  netmask 0x"
> ifconfig_sis0_alias2="67.143.227.69  netmask 0x"
> ifconfig_sis0_alias3="67.143.227.70  netmask 0x"
> ifconfig_sis0_alias4="67.143.231.97  netmask 0x"
> ifconfig_sis0_alias5="67.143.231.98  netmask 0x"
> ifconfig_sis0_alias6="67.143.231.99  netmask 0x"
> ifconfig_sis0_alias7="67.143.231.100 netmask 0x"
> ifconfig_sis0_alias8="67.143.231.101 netmask 0x"
> ifconfig_sis0_alias9="67.143.231.102 netmask 0x"
>
> kern.ipc.maxsockbuf=8388608
> net.inet.tcp.sendspace=3217968
> net.inet.tcp.recvspace=3217968
> net.inet.tcp.rfc1323=1
>
> syslogd_enable="YES"
> syslogd_flags="-4 -v -v -s -s -l /etc/namedb/var/run/log"
> stunnel_enable="YES"
> pf_enable="YES"
> pflog_enable="YES"
>
> sshd_enable="YES"
> inetd_enable="YES"
> inetd_flags="-wWl"
> named_enable="YES"
> named_program="/usr/local/sbin/named"
> named_flags="-u bind -c /etc/namedb/named.conf"
> mysql_enable="YES"
> apache2_enable="YES"
> apache2ssl_enable="YES"
> sendmail_enable="NONE"
> courier_authdaemond_enable="YES"
> courier_imap_imapd_enable="YES"
> courier_imap_imapdssl_enable="YES"
> courier_imap_imapd_ssl_enable="YES"
> courier_imap_pop3dssl_enable="YES"
> courier_imap_pop3d_ssl_enable="YES"
> sqwebmaild_enable="YES"
> spamd_enable="YES"
> spamd_flags="-d -q -v -x -r /var/run/spamd.pid"
> clamav_clamd_enable="YES"
> clamav_freshclam_enable="YES"
> svscan_enable="YES"
> snmpd_enable="YES"
> proftpd_enable="YES"
>
> usbd_enable="YES"
>
> clear_tmp_enable="YES"
> update_motd="NO"
>
> linux_enable="YES"
>
> --
>
> # cat /etc/pf.conf
> ext_if="sis0"   # replace with actual external interface name i.e., dc0
> loc_if="lo0"# lo0 - local interface 127.0.0.1
> table  { 67.143.227.66, 67.143.227.67, 67.143.227.68,
> 67.143.227.69, 67.143.227.70 67.143.231.97 67.143.231.98 67.143.231.99
> 67.143.231.100 67.143.231.101 67.143.231.102}
> table  { 205.209.177.60 }
> table  { 67.143.227.66, 128.242.160.3, 68.83.182.43,
> 66.252.8.133 }
> table  { 222.152.0.43, 219.89.75.39, 222.152.3.100,
> 222.152.4.82, 65.175.125.87, 59.188.133.195, 59.59.154.71,
> 222.245.97.116, 201.141.212.230, 208.53.3.92, 124.163.176.58,
> 213.230.128.226, 208.69.32.130, 65.175.125.94, 65.111.17.147,
> 216.15.177.196, 72.37.165.0/24, 200.184.163.0/24 }
>
> scrub in all
>
> #smtp forward
> rdr inet proto tcp from any to $ext_if port 2525 -> 67.143.227.70 port 25
>
> #block in quick on $ext_if from 
> block drop in quick on $ext_if from  to 
>
> # Filtering: the implicit first two rules are
> pass in all
> pass out all
>
> # block all incoming packets but allow ssh, pass all outgoing tcp and udp
> # connections a

RE: Help! FreeBSD: 88.78 KBps, Linux: 624.95 KBps

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

sis ethernet cards are not known as very good cards.

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kyrre Nygård
> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 7:12 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Help! FreeBSD: 88.78 KBps, Linux: 624.95 KBps
>
>
> Hello.
>
> My friend is switching to Linux because FreeBSD is failing on him.
>
> When downloading a file from a FreeBSD box and a Linux box on the same
> network, the FreeBSD box got 88.78 KBps whereas the Linux got 624.95
> Kbps. I have no idea what's wrong, but my man isn't really into good
> information design (e.g. taking something complex and making it easy),
> so his system is a mess. Maybe some of you can help me locate where the
> problem's at?
>
> Thanks guys,
> Kyrre
>
> # ifconfig -a
> sis0: flags=8843 mtu 1500
> options=8
> inet6 fe80::20e:a6ff:fe53:d066%sis0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1
> inet 67.143.227.66 netmask 0xfff8 broadcast 67.143.227.71
> inet 67.143.227.67 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.227.67
> inet 67.143.227.68 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.227.68
> inet 67.143.227.69 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.227.69
> inet 67.143.227.70 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.227.70
> inet 67.143.231.97 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.231.97
> inet 67.143.231.98 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.231.98
> inet 67.143.231.99 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.231.99
> inet 67.143.231.100 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.231.100
> inet 67.143.231.101 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.231.101
> inet 67.143.231.102 netmask 0x broadcast 67.143.231.102
> ether 00:0e:a6:53:d0:66
> media: Ethernet autoselect (100baseTX )
> status: active
> plip0: flags=108810 mtu 1500
> lo0: flags=8049 mtu 16384
> inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128
> inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3
> inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff00
> pflog0: flags=141 mtu 33208
>
> #cat /etc/rc.conf
> ifconfig_sis0="inet 67.143.227.66  netmask 255.255.255.248"
> defaultrouter="67.143.227.65"
> hostname="his.box~com"
>
> ifconfig_sis0_alias0="67.143.227.67  netmask 0x"
> ifconfig_sis0_alias1="67.143.227.68  netmask 0x"
> ifconfig_sis0_alias2="67.143.227.69  netmask 0x"
> ifconfig_sis0_alias3="67.143.227.70  netmask 0x"
> ifconfig_sis0_alias4="67.143.231.97  netmask 0x"
> ifconfig_sis0_alias5="67.143.231.98  netmask 0x"
> ifconfig_sis0_alias6="67.143.231.99  netmask 0x"
> ifconfig_sis0_alias7="67.143.231.100 netmask 0x"
> ifconfig_sis0_alias8="67.143.231.101 netmask 0x"
> ifconfig_sis0_alias9="67.143.231.102 netmask 0x"
>
> kern.ipc.maxsockbuf=8388608
> net.inet.tcp.sendspace=3217968
> net.inet.tcp.recvspace=3217968
> net.inet.tcp.rfc1323=1
>
> syslogd_enable="YES"
> syslogd_flags="-4 -v -v -s -s -l /etc/namedb/var/run/log"
> stunnel_enable="YES"
> pf_enable="YES"
> pflog_enable="YES"
>
> sshd_enable="YES"
> inetd_enable="YES"
> inetd_flags="-wWl"
> named_enable="YES"
> named_program="/usr/local/sbin/named"
> named_flags="-u bind -c /etc/namedb/named.conf"
> mysql_enable="YES"
> apache2_enable="YES"
> apache2ssl_enable="YES"
> sendmail_enable="NONE"
> courier_authdaemond_enable="YES"
> courier_imap_imapd_enable="YES"
> courier_imap_imapdssl_enable="YES"
> courier_imap_imapd_ssl_enable="YES"
> courier_imap_pop3dssl_enable="YES"
> courier_imap_pop3d_ssl_enable="YES"
> sqwebmaild_enable="YES"
> spamd_enable="YES"
> spamd_flags="-d -q -v -x -r /var/run/spamd.pid"
> clamav_clamd_enable="YES"
> clamav_freshclam_enable="YES"
> svscan_enable="YES"
> snmpd_enable="YES"
> proftpd_enable="YES"
>
> usbd_enable="YES"
>
> clear_tmp_enable="YES"
> update_motd="NO"
>
> linux_enable="YES"
>
> --
>
> # cat /etc/pf.conf
> ext_if="sis0"   # replace with actual external interface name i.e., dc0
> loc_if="lo0"# lo0 - local interface 127.0.0.1
> table  { 67.143.227.66, 67.143.227.67, 67.143.227.68,
> 67.143.227.69, 67.143.227.70 67.143.231.97 67.143.231.98 67.143.231.99
> 67.143.231.100 67.143.231.101 67.143.231.102}
> table  { 205.209.177.60 }
> table  { 67.143.227.66, 128.242.160.3, 68.83.182.43,
> 66.252.8.133 }
> table  { 222.152.0.43, 219.89.75.39, 222.152.3.100,
> 222.152.4.82, 65.175.125.87, 59.188.133.195, 59.59.154.71,
> 222.245.97.116, 201.141.212.230, 208.53.3.92, 124.163.176.58,
> 213.230.128.226, 208.69.32.130, 65.175.125.94, 65.111.17.147,
> 216.15.177.196, 72.37.165.0/24, 200.184.163.0/24 }
>
> scrub in all
>
> #smtp forward
> rdr inet proto tcp from any to $ext_if port 2525 -> 67.143.227.70 port 25
>
> #block in quick on $ext_if from 
> block drop in quick on $ext_if from  to 
>
> # Filtering: the implicit first two rules are
> pass in all
> pass out all
>
> # block all incoming packets but allow ssh, pass all outgoing tcp and udp
> # connections and keep state, logging blocked packets.
> block in l

RE: bge NIC not supporting 1000baseTX

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

This is similar to PR  kern/107850  maybe it should be added to it.

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Martin Hepworth
> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 11:13 AM
> To: Tek Bahadur Limbu
> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: bge NIC not supporting 1000baseTX
>
>
> HI
>
> is the other end auto-negotiating properly? What happens if you force 1000
> full at BOTH ends?
>
> --
> martin
>
> On 7/5/07, Tek Bahadur Limbu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have a problem with my bge0 (BCM5750A1 NetXtreme) NIC card which is
> > integrated in my Dell 600SC machine.  This machine is running on
> > FreeBSD-6.2 (i386).
> >
> > For some reasons, the bge0 NIC interface does not seem  to support
> > 1000baseTX settings.
> >
> > When the NIC card is set at either 10/100 baseTX,  the bge0 interface
> > shows an active state.  However, when I type the following command:
> >
> > ifconfig bge0 media 1000baseTX
> >
> > the status of the bge0 NIC card shows: no carrier
> >
> > Does that mean that this bge0 NIC card does not support speeds of
> > 1000baseTX or do I have to tweak some kernel or sysctl settings?
> >
> > Thanking you
> >
> >
> > - --
> >
> >
> > With best regards and good wishes,
> >
> > Yours sincerely,
> >
> > Tek Bahadur Limbu
> >
> > (TAG/TDG Group)
> > Jwl Systems Department
> >
> > Worldlink Communications Pvt. Ltd.
> >
> > Jawalakhel, Nepal
> >
> > http://www.wlink.com.np
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (FreeBSD)
> >
> > iD8DBQFGjPQvVrOl+eVhOvYRAtEsAKCni1JJ/mBLLOnSroIajz6vO+gwTACdE22N
> > W2fd6dj7OunY/1r5PaZkLMs=
> > =HGVA
> > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> > ___
> > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
> > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
> > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]"
> >
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RE: The worst error message in history belongs to... BIND9!

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chad Perrin
> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:39 AM
> To: FreeBSD Questions
> Subject: Re: The worst error message in history belongs to... BIND9!
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jul 04, 2007 at 08:14:44PM -0700, Garrett Cooper wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >>Except that bash requires all the icky GNU utilities to build so you
> > >>have to GNUify your system.
> > >
> > >And perl doesn't?  It was GPL last I knew.
> > 
> > The entirety of Perl falls under the GPL and Artistic license at this 
> > time. Read the perl-porters archives for more debate on Perl licensing.
> 
> More to the point, Perl is dual-licensed -- redistributable under the
> terms of either the GPL or the Artistic License, at your discretion.

Not correct.  The Artistic license is less restrictive than the GPL so
GPL advocates can take a Perl install and call it GPLd perl - but the
Perl FAQ makes it very clear the intent of the Perl maintainers is not
to use GPL.  As they said, "there is no GNU Perl"

I challenge you to point to one, single Perl scrap of code, that is ONLY
gpled.

As far as I know, anyone submitting patches or modifications to the
Perl maintainers has been required to license their patches under Artistic
for them to be included.

Of course, if people put Perl extensions under GPL the Perl maintainers
cannot help that.  I do not think, however, that any extensions that
are included with the default install are GPL-only.

Ted
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RE: OT: Re: The worst error message in history belongs to... BIND9!

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Anything you have actually seen is fair game.

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of doug
> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 12:19 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: OT: Re: The worst error message in history belongs to...
> BIND9!
> 
> 
> 
>   How far do we get to go back in time? From the first online 
> fortran compiler: 
> ugh1 and ugh2. In fairness these were conditions that were not 
> supposed to 
> happen, but somehow they always do. In more recent times I always liked, 
> "invalid page fault" this perhaps as late as win98.
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RE: Re[2]: The worst error message in history belongs to... BIND9!

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gerard
> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 9:30 AM
> To: User Questions
> Subject: Re[2]: The worst error message in history belongs to... BIND9!
> 
> 
> On July 04, 2007 at 09:53AM Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > Actually perl has a lot of problems too.  One of the biggest is that
> > perl script writers always seem to think like you, in that perl is
> > consistent across all platforms.
> > 
> > The biggest problems I've seen with perl scripts are when people use
> > perl extensions that are not on the system.  You then have to go find
> > the extension they use and very few of the perl script writers seem
> > to be smart enough to put a section at the beginning of their scripts
> > that define the CPAN location of the particular extensions they are
> > using.  The second biggest problem is perl script writers using
> > constructs that are valid in Perl 5.6 and later but not valid in
> > Perl 5.0   I don't know how many times I've wanted to strangle
> > someone when trying to run a perl script under Perl 5.0 that had
> > ONE single friggin statement in the entire thousand line script that
> > isn't valid under 5.0 but is under 5.6  And I've also run across
> > a number of Perl extensions that won't run under 5.0 as well, even
> > though the authors are supposed to regression test under 5.0
> 
> I was under the impression that Perl 5.6.0 was released on 2000-Mar-22,
> while Perl 5.000 was issued on or about 1994-Oct-17. For the life of
> me, I cannot comprehend why anyone would be using such an antiquated
> version.

I should have said the perl 5.0 family.  Including 5.004 which is still
being maintained by the Perl maintainers.  Perl 5.005-04 just came out
in 2004 by the way.  perl 5.6.2 came out in Nov 2003.

> I have a rather limited knowledge of Perl;

That's apparent.

> however, I am not
> going to be bothered regression testing it under a seven year old
> obsoleted version. 

There were major structural changes in perl 5.0 and 5.6  The changes
going from 5.6 to 5.8 and 5.9 are much less.

You can take it as a given that anything that runs on perl 5.005-04 
will run on all perl 5.0 versions, anything that runs on perl 5.6.2
will run on all 5.6 versions, etc.

The whole reason that the perl project maintains 5.0, 5.6, 5.8 and
so on is that they know that there's systems that have lots of tested
programs that have been tested under 5.0 and the system maintainers
have not yet gone through the process of testing all that software
on newer perl versions.  Despite what you probably believe, when
an organization has a server that is running fine, they are not
frothing at the mouth to upgrade it to the latest version.

This is why IMHO that perl is not a good choice to use for building
large systems, not because the perl maintainers don't understand
the importance of backwards compatability, but because too many 
programmers like yourself simply don't.

If I was building a system that was ONLY going to use perl and
the modules supplied with it, and NOT use any other 3rd party
modules, then I would consider using perl, there wouldn't be
anything wrong with it.

But most of the perl scripts out there use many 3rd party modules
(and I understand why, it saves them time) and that is where you have
the problem, is with those.

> I believe that FreeBSD-3.4 was released around
> 12/21/1999 or there about. Should we also be testing against that
> version also?
> 

I wasn't talking about 1999 software I was talking about 2004
software.

Ted
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RE: Sendmail problems on FBSD-6.1-R

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Do the following:

cd /etc/mail
rm *.cf
make install
make start

Your sendmail.cf file is generated from a *.mc file in
that directory.  It sounds like you have been editing
the sendmail.cf file directly which is not what your
supposed to be doing.

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 7:58 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Sendmail problems on FBSD-6.1-R
>
>
>  Dear Sirs
>
>
>  After I had nearly setup sendmail on my localhost I got the following
> messages when I try to restart it:
>
> #make restart
>
> "Starting: sendmail554 5.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 66 unknown
> configuration line "
> "
> sendmail-clientmqueue-"
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RE: The worst error message in history belongs to... BIND9!

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 7:34 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: The worst error message in history belongs to... BIND9!
> 
> 
> > >> This is actually just the difference between sh and bash ...
> > >
> > >differences in, say, arithmetic handling and loops can sometimes
> > >mean rewriting parts of shell scripts depending on whether it is
> > >going to run in BSD or Linux.
> >
> > That's a major argument for doing things in python or perl as
> > they are consistent across all platforms ...
> 
> If one is going to require the installation of something that may
> not be part of a base system, that something might as well be bash :)

Except that bash requires all the icky GNU utilities to build so you
have to GNUify your system.  The second you put in gmake, gmake requires
iconv, readline and all the other nasty libraries, and from that point
on if you build something you never know if it's going to link in to
one of those libraries.

Lots of programs use configure and if they don't see the gnu libraries they
will use the more traditional bsd ones, but if they see the gnu stuff they
will silently use it.  For example, one I see a lot is programs using
gdbm if they see it, and if they don't they will use ndbm.

This can cause major problems for commercial users.

I'd love for someone to modify the gmake port to have a variable
you can set that would build all the GNUified dependency libraries,
build and install gmake and statically link in all it's GNUified
libraries, then remove all the GNUified libraries.

Ted
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RE: The worst error message in history belongs to... BIND9!

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bill Campbell
> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 9:36 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: The worst error message in history belongs to... BIND9!
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 03, 2007, Martin McCormick wrote:
> >Paul Chvostek writes:
> >> This is actually just the difference between sh and bash.  You'll see
> >> the latter error if you type `a = 5` in bash in any OS.  It just so
> >> happens that most Linux distributions don't have a real sh:
> >
> > I kind of thought that was the real issue. While
> >something like this is maybe slightly annoying at times, the
> >differences in, say, arithmetic handling and loops can sometimes
> >mean rewriting parts of shell scripts depending on whether it is
> >going to run in BSD or Linux.
> 
> That's a major argument for doing things in python or perl as
> they are consistent across all platforms.  While perl has a well
> deserved reputation for looking like modem noise, it's certainly
> no worse than shell scripts.

Actually perl has a lot of problems too.  One of the biggest is that
perl script writers always seem to think like you, in that perl is
consistent across all platforms.

The biggest problems I've seen with perl scripts are when people use
perl extensions that are not on the system.  You then have to go find
the extension they use and very few of the perl script writers seem
to be smart enough to put a section at the beginning of their scripts
that define the CPAN location of the particular extensions they are
using.  The second biggest problem is perl script writers using
constructs that are valid in Perl 5.6 and later but not valid in
Perl 5.0   I don't know how many times I've wanted to strangle
someone when trying to run a perl script under Perl 5.0 that had
ONE single friggin statement in the entire thousand line script that
isn't valid under 5.0 but is under 5.6  And I've also run across
a number of Perl extensions that won't run under 5.0 as well, even
though the authors are supposed to regression test under 5.0

> 
> Pure /bin/sh is very limited in its constructs compared to other
> shells such as ksh, bash, etc.
> 

ksh is consistent across platfroms, of course, you generally have to
compile it for the system your on.

If you cannot work within a limited construct set your not much of a
programmer.

Ted
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RE: The worst error message in history belongs to... BIND9!

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

You could make it more zen-like, perhaps:

"You are out of tune with the Universe, grasshopper.  Continue your studies"

And, if everything was correct it could issue:

"awakening has been attained, entering zazen"

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: nawcom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:24 AM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: The worst error message in history belongs to... BIND9!
>
>
> Reminds me of a typical windows user i dealt with who saw an error about
> explorer.exe and how it could not "be read" and let it slide. :-P
>
> using my wicked non user friendly skillz of the damned, i personally
> like the concept of a simple  "pebkac error" when bind refuses to start
> due to a named.conf setting or similar. sortof creates a challenge, an
> adventure to find what's causing the issue yourself.
>
> wait. i shouldn't be promoting ideas on how make things worse off on
> freebsd-questions.
>
> pardon this useless email.
>
> -ben
>
> Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Martin
> >> McCormick
> >>
> >> Then, there is the ultimate, the "Check engine." light on the
> >> modern car.
> >>
> >
> > Check engine - CEL
> >
> >
> >> It would be so nice if it said some indication as to
> >> the seriousness of the problem so that one knows whether to get
> >> it fixed now and maybe save $5,000 worth of repair costs or let
> >> it slide a few days until a better time.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Most people take the tack that if the CEL comes on and the engine
> > is still running and the car still goes, that they can let it slide.
> >
> > Ted
> > ___
> > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
> > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
> > To unsubscribe, send any mail to
> "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
> >
>
>

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RE: The worst error message in history belongs to... BIND9!

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Martin
> McCormick
> 
> Then, there is the ultimate, the "Check engine." light on the
> modern car. 

Check engine - CEL

> It would be so nice if it said some indication as to
> the seriousness of the problem so that one knows whether to get
> it fixed now and maybe save $5,000 worth of repair costs or let
> it slide a few days until a better time.
> 

Most people take the tack that if the CEL comes on and the engine
is still running and the car still goes, that they can let it slide.

Ted
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RE: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

I prefer uw-imap for IMAP and sendmail for MTA.  I have found
that since PHP imap extensions uses the uw-imap library and
many webmail interfaces use php imap extensions, that there is
less trouble with the client and server talking to each other
when they are using the same library.  (the uw-imap server
is built using the c-client library that php-extensions uses)

IMHO your better off using procmail to scan the stuff with
spamassassin and clamav, rather than using something like
amavisd to call those programs.  There's tons more procmail
support out on the Internet, it has been in use longer.  And
you can use webmin and usermin to allow users to build their
own procmail recipies.

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Norberto
> Meijome
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 7:00 PM
> To: Kenny Dail
> Cc: Barnaby Scott; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob
> 
> 
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:49:45 -0600
> Kenny Dail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >  I currently much prefer using Dovecot for IMAP, and Postfix for
> > MTA. They are both quite easy to set up and customize to fit changing
> > needs.
> 
> I agree . adding clamav + amavisd.new + spamassassin to the mix 
> would wrap up
> the setup.
> 
> ping me if you need particular config details.
> 
> _
> {Beto|Norberto|Numard} Meijome
> 
> "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long 
> plastic hallway
> where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. 
> There's also a
> negative side." Hunter S. Thompson
> 
> I speak for myself, not my employer. Contents may be hot. 
> Slippery when wet.
> Reading disclaimers makes you go blind. Writing them is worse. 
> You have been
> Warned.
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RE: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of RW
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 5:51 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob
>
>
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:27:56 +0100
> Barnaby Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Ultimately, but not yet, I want to start using the FreeBSD machine as
> > a proper mailserver - i.e. get a static IP address and point the MX
> > record hosted by my provider at it.
>
> It may not be sufficient to get a static IP address. If you wish to
> send out mail directly, you really need one with control of reverse
> DNS, since that's the criterion for getting out of dynamic
> address blocklists.

No, not exactly, this is a simplification.  Some don't pay attention to
PTR's.  The correct way is to resolve the hostname passed in the HELO
and compare the IP that results to the senders IP.  Some lists do that
some don't when looking at removal requests.

You really need
a /24 subnet to be free of this.  A number of the blacklists these days
are making the very ignorant assumption that if a single IP in a /24
is spamming, that it is OK to block the entire /24.  The idea is if we
disrupt traffic enough the ISP will magically step in and do something
about it.  I don't know exactly why these blacklist owners seem to have
settled
on a /24, they probably got C's in their classes in school so have an
especial affinity for the deprecated-years-ago term "class C IP subnet"

Any ISP these days handing out static IP's has a mechanism for putting in
a PTR record.

Ted

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RE: MS exchange alternatives for FreeBSD

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

http://sourceforge.net/projects/remotecalendars/

http://outlook2ical.sourceforge.net/


But don't despair, many .ics files can be massaged
for digestion by Outlook, without the need to install
a plugin.

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alexandre
> Biancalana
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 4:42 AM
> To: Cheffo; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: MS exchange alternatives for FreeBSD
>
>
> WebCalendar (*webcalendar*.sourceforge.net) can do the job of shared
> schedule for iCal compatible clients The problem is that M$ Outlook is
> not compatible with the standard... :-( Last time I'm looked, some
> opensource plugins could be used for partial compatibility of Outlook with
> iCal.
>
> Regards,
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RE: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Your going to get yourself blown up if you try that, I guarentee it.

Here is what you want to do if your really serious.

1) Get yourself a DSL line (for your home) with a static IP address
on the end of it.

2) Register a personal domain name. (barneyscott.com or some such)

3) Build a mailserver, set up DNS MX records for your domain.  Set
up your own e-mail address on it and get rid of all other mail addresses
you use.

4) Become familiar with all the components of it.  Ask lots of
questions.  In about 6 months when you are at the point to where you
understand what your doing, THEN build a mailserver for your 8
users.

It is frankly immoral for you to use your 8 users as guinea pigs
to train yourself how e-mail works and how mailservers work.  There
are so many minefields in Internet mail today that a newbie isn't
going to be able to do this with a production company without being
crucified by the users.

I fly a desk at an ISP that has about 10 different mailservers with
different domains and hundreds to thousands of addresses on them and
I do everything right - but I still get bitched at by users on a regular
basis on e-mail problems.  Trust me, it doesen't matter one whit to
an angry user who has missed an e-mail that the problem is because
they didn't correctly spell their e-mail address in their From setting
on their e-mail client, and their coorespondent got a bounce when trying
to reply to their mail, even when the problem is 10,000% their fault and
does not have a snowballs chance in Hell of being your fault to any
sane observer, to that user, Hell will freeze over before they will admit
that the problem is on their side.  It's ALWAYS your problem.

And, Hell will indeed freeze over before any user will ever compliment
you on a well-run mailserver.  If you have 0 complaints, your doing well.
And you will NEVER EVER be thanked for fixing their e-mail problems for
them, caused by them crapping up their own machine.  You simply have got
to know what your doing before tampering with this.

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Barnaby Scott
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 2:28 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob
> 
> 
> Hi, I'm trying to replace my current arrangement for email, and though I 
> have read as much as possible on it, I just want to check if I am on the 
> right lines with what I'm planning. (Is that a legitimate use of this 
> list?) It's the same old story, when you're a beginner it is very hard 
> to take even small steps until you have a grasp of the 'big picture', 
> and know what direction you should be going. So I'd be glad of any 
> opinions, pointers, or How-Tos that I may not have spotted.
> 
> If you read the rest of this, you may think that I'm trying to implement 
> something way too heavyweight for what I need at the moment, and you'd 
> be right! However, I want to learn, and enjoy trying to master the big 
> boys' toys.
> 
> OK, so here's where I am:
> 8 users
> 3 or 4 Windows machines including a laptop - users may use 
> any/all of these
> New FreeBSD server so far only operating as a Samba server (PDC).
> Email is downloaded by individual clients from ISP via POP3 - user must 
> be at specific machine to access their local mail folders. If elsewhere, 
> they must use webmail, but of course sent messages, replied flags etc 
> are then inconsistent, besides which messages are only left on the (ISP) 
> server for a limited time.
> 
> Here is where I want to get to:
> IMAP server on my FreeBSD box (and using Maildir is my instinctive 
> preference.)
> Ultimately, but not yet, I want to start using the FreeBSD machine as a 
> proper mailserver - i.e. get a static IP address and point the MX record 
> hosted by my provider at it. For now though I am happy to fetch from the 
> existing mailboxes that they host for me.
> Again, not necessarily now, but when I am fully up and running, run spam 
> and virus checking (that's done for me now, but inevitably could be 
> improved on.)
> 
> What I _think_ I want to do is this:
> Install Fetchmail to get mail from my various hosted mailboxes
> Configure Sendmail, which I accepted as the default mailer
> Install Procmail to deliver messages in Maildir format (to users' home 
> directories?)
> Install Courier IMAP as the IMAP server
> 
> Ultimately, then drop Fetchmail and reconfigure Sendmail for receiving 
> mail directly, and add anti- spam and virus tools.
> 
> Have I got this about right? Do I really need 4 separate tools to do 
> this? Have I overlooked something more obvious/elegant? Where are my big 
> pitfalls going to be?
> 
> If replying, please keep in mind my embarrassing level of inexperience!!
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Barnaby Scott
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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RE: MS exchange alternatives for FreeBSD

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

There is a project out there to try to emulate the Microsoft NetBIOS
interface
on MS Exchange to allow clients like Outlook to share calendaring.  The
reports are that it doesen't work that well.  I don't know if they have gone
past exchanging mail with it.  But I do not recommend that approach.

I recommend that users jettison Outlook calendar entirely and switch to
a web interfaced calendar that you run on a webserver.  However, often
users don't want to do this and if that is the case you still can run a
shared calendar on a webserver, you just have to designate an admin to
be in charge of it.

In that scenario, users that want to make private calendar entries in their
Outlook calendars can continue to do that.  If they want to make a shared
calendar entry then they either send an e-mail to the calendar admin
person, or they make the appointment in their personal Outlook
calendar, then once the appointment is made they open the appointment
and do a File Save As and save the appointment to a vcalendar file, then
e-mail the vcalendar file to the calendar admin.

When the calendar admin either imports the vcalendar file into the master
web-based calendar, or just reads the e-mail and enters the appointment,
the admin can then export a vcalendar file from the appointment on the
master calendar and e-mail it to all users in the organization and when
they get the vcalendar file they just click on it and it will import into
their
personal Outlook calendars.

It is really a lot easier to just tell the users to use the master
webinterface
calendar.  After all they have to be connected to the network to send and
receive e-mail, so when they are doing that it is no trouble to call up a
web
browser and look at the master calendar.  And they can of course export
the appointments from the webinterface on the master calendar to their
own Outlooks, and even to their own PDAs and such, by themselves if
they insist on continuing to use Outlook calendar.  The better master
calendar
programs allow users to run their own calendars on the calendar server.

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Cheffo
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 9:15 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: MS exchange alternatives for FreeBSD
>
>
> Hi list,
>
> I have server running postfix + courier-imap, and I'm looking for
> someway to add possibility to exchange calendars/contacts/meeting
> invitations/etc between mail clients.
>
> Can someone recommend calendar, that is compatible with windows clients
> and can be run under FreeBSD?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> P.S. Please CC me on reply as I'm not subscribed to -questions.
>
> --
>
> Best Wishes,
> Stefan Lambrev
> ICQ# 24134177
> ___
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>

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RE: Hardware monitor needed

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jim Capozzoli
> Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 11:22 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Hardware monitor needed
> 
> 
> On 6/21/07, Eduardo Viruena Silva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Laszlo Nagy wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > My FreeBSD 6.2 server restarts suddenly once or twice a day. 
> I believe it is
> > > because the processor is overheated, but I'm not sure. Is 
> there a way to
> > > check this from software? I would like to install a hardware 
> monitor program
> > > that can log out processor temperature in every minute. The 
> mainboard is ASUS
> > > P5LD2, if that matters. Is there a software out there that 
> can do this for
> > > me?
> > >
> > > Of course I could buy a new processor fan (or a water cooling 
> system) but I
> > > do not want to spend money before I make sure that is the root of the
> > > problem.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >  Laszlo
> > >
> >
> > Believe it or not, my computer had the same behavoir because
> > it was very dirty.  It took 3 cans of compressed air
> > to clean it.   Once clean, it worked perfectly.
> compressed air? nonsense, I prefer the 
> cleaned-out-reverse-shopvac method ;)
> 

I use my 60 gallon shop air compressor and about 100 psi on a
blowgun.  Making sure to use the non-oiled air feed, of course.

Ted

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RE: FreeBSD and Robotics

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chad Perrin
> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 3:32 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Robotics
>
> > and within a second has come fully ready, and operating.  You could not
> > wait the 30-60 seconds that POST on a regular PC would take to complete.
>
> If it's taking 30-60 seconds just for your system to POST, there's
> something desperately wrong.

No, you just have the extended memory check disabled.  Most BIOSes these
days do, with an option to turn it back on.  Go into bios setup and look for
something called "quick boot"

I've also seen bioses where even when the quickboot is disabled, it will
only test ram once - when the machine is powered up.  Successive reboots it
will not do a through ram test, until the machine is de-powered and
re-powered.

  My laptop gets all the way to a login
> prompt in that range.  I think you mean "boot", not "POST" -- where

boot is also an issue - however, that can be shortened by reducing
the number of drivers loaded by the system.

Ted

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RE: Need help with GNU assembly

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

http://asm.sourceforge.net/intro.html



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Patil, Kiran
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 2:11 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Cc: Patil, Kiran
> Subject: Need help with GNU assembly
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
>  
> 
> I am trying to use GNU assembly. I am trying simple thing such as ,
> moving content of memory location into general purpose register (ax).
> 
>  
> 
> I have following code :
> 
>  
> 
> struct context {
> 
>  
> 
> unsigned long mask[8];
> 
> } CONTEXT;
> 
>  
> 
> int main()
> 
> {
> 
> CONTEXT sr;
> 
> sr.mask[5] = 0x8FED;
> 
>  
> 
> __asm ( "movw %0, %ax" : : "m" (*(unsigned
> short*)sr.mask[5]) );
> 
> return 0;
> 
> }
> 
>  
> 
> Compiler complains with error "bad substitution directive in asm
> instruction".
> 
>  
> 
> I tried changing the code something like this :
> 
>  
> 
> __asm ( "movw %0, %ax" : : "m" (*(unsigned short*)sr.mask+5) );
> 
>  
> 
> Still error is same, then I tried following:
> 
>  
> 
> Unsigned short* ptemp = &sr.mask[5];
> 
> __asm ( "movw %0, %ax" : : "m" (*(unsigned short*)ptemp) );
> 
> But still no luck, compiler reported same error as mentioned above
> 
>  
> 
> Any help is appreciated. Please let me know where I am mistake.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -- Kiran P.
> 
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RE: Need help with GNU assembly

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

http://user.nj.net/~tms/hello.html

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Patil, Kiran
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 2:11 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Cc: Patil, Kiran
> Subject: Need help with GNU assembly
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
>  
> 
> I am trying to use GNU assembly. I am trying simple thing such as ,
> moving content of memory location into general purpose register (ax).
> 
>  
> 
> I have following code :
> 
>  
> 
> struct context {
> 
>  
> 
> unsigned long mask[8];
> 
> } CONTEXT;
> 
>  
> 
> int main()
> 
> {
> 
> CONTEXT sr;
> 
> sr.mask[5] = 0x8FED;
> 
>  
> 
> __asm ( "movw %0, %ax" : : "m" (*(unsigned
> short*)sr.mask[5]) );
> 
> return 0;
> 
> }
> 
>  
> 
> Compiler complains with error "bad substitution directive in asm
> instruction".
> 
>  
> 
> I tried changing the code something like this :
> 
>  
> 
> __asm ( "movw %0, %ax" : : "m" (*(unsigned short*)sr.mask+5) );
> 
>  
> 
> Still error is same, then I tried following:
> 
>  
> 
> Unsigned short* ptemp = &sr.mask[5];
> 
> __asm ( "movw %0, %ax" : : "m" (*(unsigned short*)ptemp) );
> 
> But still no luck, compiler reported same error as mentioned above
> 
>  
> 
> Any help is appreciated. Please let me know where I am mistake.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -- Kiran P.
> 
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> 
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RE: FreeBSD and Robotics

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Modulok
> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 7:40 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Robotics
> 
> 
> It's only as good as the drivers you write to control the robot. It
> also depends on just how critical your "critical situations" refers
> to.
> 
> In situations where human life is directly dependent upon the
> integrity of the system, a modular kernel design has traditionally
> been preferred over the monolithic kernel designs found in Windows,
> Linux, BSD. That isn't to say that FreeBSD is unstable, in fact it's
> very stable. However, in a situation where people die if the system
> fails, there are some questions as to the safety of the underlying
> designs of these kernels. The reason for this is, (in general), device
> drivers operate in the kernel's memory space and therefore have the
> potential to bring down the rest of the system, should they fail,
> (again, in general). In a modular kernel design, where everything is
> run in user-space, if a single driver goes berserk it is entirely
> insulated from the rest of the system.
> 
> Then there are embedded systems, which are regarded as more stable
> because the hardware they run on is identical from one system to the
> next and never changes. Contrast this to operating systems that must
> run on a wide range of consumer hardware; there is a statistically
> higher probability of mistakes, just due to the increased size of the
> codebase. (In practice this doesn't always work out though, as I've
> used some embedded systems that were embarrassingly unstable). The
> smaller codebase of embedded systems and modular kernels is typically
> easier to audit, as there is far less code. Where human life is
> directly dependent, the code must be audited by a third party.
> 

There's another issue and that is POST on standard PC hardware.  POST
takes too long.  For example the auto industry has agreed on a standard
time that a car engine computer must be fully operational, it is very
short, no more than something like 2 seconds or so.  Enough so that when
you turn the key and the engine starts cranking, that the engine computer
has completely booted and is running by the second crank.

That is why you probably will never see standard computer hardware used
in the operating room of a hospital to control patient life support, for
example.  If for example during an operation the computer controlling an
artificial heart suddenly dies, the staff simply unplugs the lines from
the computer and plug them into another computer which then is switched on
and within a second has come fully ready, and operating.  You could not
wait the 30-60 seconds that POST on a regular PC would take to complete.

By contrast, regular PC gear is used very much for stuff like image
analysis and non-critical gear in a hospital.  If the computer running a
CAT scanner were to die in the middle of a scan, no big deal, you
just replace it and restart the scan from the beginning.

Ted
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RE: Squid and IPFW

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of RW
> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 5:23 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Squid and IPFW
> 
> 
> On Thu, 31 May 2007 13:13:36 -0400
> "Spiros Papadopoulos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Dear all,
> > 
> > I would like to setup a gw / firewall (IPFW) which will also run
> > Squid, in order to restrict access to certain websites
> > or to allow certain workstations to have full access to the internet.
> > How can I redirect all traffic going to port 80 on the gw, to port
> > 3128 on Squid 
> 
> Are you really sure you want to do that way?  Squid wont be able to
> control access to https or ftp. And what about http on non-standard
> ports, e.g. http://easynews.com:81 
> 

The people that are smart enough to get around this kind of a block
in an organization are generally not the problem.  It is the morons that
have no concept of appropriate use of the Internet in the workplace
who are the problems, and they will be effectively stopped.

I use much the same setup for my 8 year old son.  He only gets Internet
access to websites that we have approved and added to the squid list.


Ted
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RE: The worst error message in history belongs to... BIND9!

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Robert Huff
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 5:39 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: The worst error message in history belongs to... BIND9!
>
>
>
> =?iso-8859-1?Q?Kyrre_Nyg=E5rd?= writes:
>
> >  It has to be the worst written error message in history.
>
>   Not even close.  I commend to you the Amiga's BSOD:
>
>

IBM PS/2 POST messages were definitely the worst.  Any error would simply
issue a numeric code - no text whatsoever.  You were to look the numeric
code up in some manual or other.  That was fine if the code came from a
system on the motherboard.  It was not fine if the code came from a
non-IBM peripheral card since there was no master listing of 3rd party codes
back in the old days.  Here's a sample list:

http://bioscentral.com/misc/ibmdiag.htm

Ted

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RE: raid or not raid

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: kalin mintchev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 5:04 AM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: raid or not raid
>
>
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of kalin mintchev
> >> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 4:11 PM
> >> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> >> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Subject: Re: raid or not raid
> >>
> >>
> >> > On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 06:30:06AM -0400, kalin mintchev wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> so nobody on this list knows anything about raid?
> >> >> wrong list?
> >> >>
> >> >> > hi all..
> >> >> >
> >> >> > i have a box in a remote hosting facility that claims that
> >> the machine
> >> >> has
> >> >> > two discs raided in it but df and fstab show only one disc with a
> >> >> bunch of
> >> >> > slices.
> >> >> > under devices there is another name - ad6 - but it's not mounted
> >> >> anywhere.
> >> >> > the one i see both in df and the fstab is ad4 with one big slice
> >> and
> >> >> > different partitions
> >> >
> >> > My (VIA Tech V-RAID) raid disk shows up as ar0, although the ad4 and
> >> ad6
> >> > device nodes exist as well.
> >> >
> >> > Do you have the ataraid device in the kernel?
> >>
> >> yes. but isn;t that in by default in 5.4 GENERIC?!
> >>
> >> >> > they insist there are 2 raided discs in tha machine. the os
> >> is 5.4 and
> >> >> i
> >> >> > think at that point the raid drivers were still considered
> >> >> > 'experimental'.
> >> >
> >> > Then ask them how it's done.
> >> >
> >> >> > it makes sense to me that if i don't see a second drive in the
> >> fstab
> >> >> there
> >> >> > isn;t any mounting which means that there is no raid going on...
> >> >
> >> > If you're seeing an ad device, it's not RAID-ed, AFAIK.
> >> >
> >> >> > is there any other way i can make sure if raid is actually on?
> >> >> > would there will be any logs somewhere?
> >> >> > the machine has been up for about 2 years and the dmesg is long
> >> >> gone...
> >> >
> >> > It should be in /var/run/dmesg.boot.
> >>
> >> thanks. i guess that solves the ad6 mistery:
> >>
> >> atapci0:  port
> >> 0xfc00-0xfc0f,0x376,0x170-0x177,0x3f6,0x1f0-0x1f7 at device
> 31.1 on pci0
> >> ata0: channel #0 on atapci0
> >> ata1: channel #1 on atapci0
> >> atapci1:  port
> >> 0xcc80-0xcc8f,0xcc98-0xcc9b,0xcca0-0xcca7,0xccb0-0xccb3,0xccb8-0xccbf
> >> irq
> >> 18 at device 31.2 on pci0
> >> ata2: channel #0 on atapci1
> >> ata3: channel #1 on atapci1
> >> .
> >> ad4: 152587MB  [310019/16/63] at
> >> ata2-master
> >> SATA150
> >> ad6: 152587MB  [310019/16/63] at
> >> ata3-master
> >> SATA150
> >> Mounting root from ufs:/dev/ad4s1a
> >>
> >> unless "at device 31.2 on pci0" points to some RAID evidence - which i
> >> think it's false - than i read this as the ad6 disk sits there unused.
> >> am i right?!
> >>
> >> according to pciconf the atapci0 and atapci1 are differnt conrollers -
> >> EIDE and SATA so they can both be on pci0 as 31.1 and 31.2?! still no
> >> RAID
> >> though...
> >>
> >
> > I've come late to this thread but it's been interesting watching the
> > speculation.
> >
> > Yes, they F'd up the installation.  Badly.  But you need to
> back up every
> > scrap of data before trying to fix it.  And use FBSD 6.2 on the
> next one.
> > There's been lots of driver fixes in the ata driver that you want.
> >
> > ata raid should show all your data on AR not AD!!  Here's an example
> > from my mailserver:
> >
> > mail# cat /etc/fstab
> > # DeviceMountpoint  FStype  Options Dump
> > Pass#
> > /dev/ar0s1b no

RE: Fix this: The Regents of the University of California. Allrights reserved.

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: Erik Trulsson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 3:02 AM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> Cc: Garrett Cooper; Kyrre Nygård; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Fix this: The Regents of the University of California.
> Allrights reserved.
>
>
> On Sun, May 27, 2007 at 02:38:33AM -0700, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> Garrett Cooper
> > > Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 8:04 PM
> > > To: Kyrre Nygård
> > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: Fix this: The Regents of the University of
> California. All
> > > rights reserved.
> > >
> > >
> > > Kyrre Nygård wrote:
> > > > Hello!
> > > >
> > > > Is it possible to change:
> > > >
> > > > Copyright (c) 1992-2007 The FreeBSD Project.
> > > > Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991,
> 1992, 1993, 1994
> > > > The Regents of the University of California. All rights
> > > reserved.
> > > >
> > > > Over to:
> > > >
> > > > Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991,
> 1992, 1993, 1994
> > > > The Regents of the University of California.
> > > > All rights reserved.
> > > >
> > > > If so, how is it done?
> > > >
> > > > To have `All rights reserved.' apply to both copyright
> > > statements, it is necessary to break it down to the next line. It
> > > would also look a whole lot neater, as the last number of `1994'
> > > now aligns with the last letter of `reserved' using a monospaced
> > > font, which ends up looking kind of weird. Trust me on this one.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > > Kyrre Nygård + mir-visuals.com + snoarc.no
> > >
> > > Now why would you want to do that? That's cutting FreeBSD
> totally out of
> > > the picture, which isn't correct since they're the copyright owners of
> > > the FreeBSD project from 1992 to today.
> > >
> >
> > Re-read what he said, Garrett:
> >
> > "To have `All rights reserved.' apply to BOTH copyright
> > statements, it is necessary to break it down to the next line.
> >
> > Cutting FreeBSD out would leave ONE, not multiple, copyright lines.
> > "BOTH" would not apply.  He intended the first copyright line to
> > remain, he just didn't print it.
> >
> > He is actually right, and it should be filed as a PR.  Gramatically,
> > right now the all rights reserved line does not apply to the
> > first copyright line.
> >
> > Of course, to be really nitpicky, the (c) should be removed, because
> > WTPO has already come out and stated that (c) isn't a valid copyright
> > indicator, you must completely enclose the c in a circle.
>
>
> As I understand it the phrase 'All rights reserved' was required by older
> copyright rules but is obsolete these days.
> I.e. changing the wording so that 'All rights reserved' applies to both
> copyright statements is pointless since it does not have any legal
> significance any more.
>

If that is the case then leaving it in is also pointless.  Why don't you
file a PR with the appropriate cites to the literature?


Ted

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RE: Fix this: The Regents of the University of California. Allrights reserved.

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christian
> Walther
> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 3:20 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Fix this: The Regents of the University of California.
> Allrights reserved.
> 
> 
> On 27/05/07, Erik Trulsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Sun, May 27, 2007 at 02:38:33AM -0700, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> > >
> [...]
> >
> > As I understand it the phrase 'All rights reserved' was 
> required by older
> > copyright rules but is obsolete these days.
> > I.e. changing the wording so that 'All rights reserved' applies to both
> > copyright statements is pointless since it does not have any legal
> > significance any more.
> 
> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "(C) - All rights reserved"
> something entirely different from the BSD License under which FreeBSD
> is licensed? This license grants it's users some rights very
> explicitely. I know that I can still be a Copyright owner when I
> choose to distribute a piece of work under a different license, but
> can I say that all rights are reserved when I actually do something
> else?

Unfortunately, WPTO did not create a new category of copyright with
software, they tried stuffing it into the same existing copyright
framework that covers books, periodicals, etc.  Thus stuff like first
rights to publish, which have significance with copyrighted written
materials, are meaningless with software.  And, things like patents,
ie: software patents, which have meaning with copyrighted software,
are meaningless with books and articles.

With FreeBSD, the decision to make software subject to copyright laws
means that when you want to give software away you have to find a 
convenient entity to give the software copyright ownership.  So what was
historically done with BSD software is when someone wrote a piece of
it they would sign over copyright rights to UCB which would immediately
license the stuff under a license that basically revoked all rights 
that a normal copyright owner would have.

The same thing is done these days with the FreeBSD Project.

It is a shame that in the beginning the Copyright people didn't
recognize at once that software is nothing more than a device, and
basically state that like all devices, it could be patented but
not copyrighted.  The failure of copyright to be able to properly
deal with software has given rise to a lot of bad side effects, such
as software patents (where the person is basically trying to have
their cake and eat it too - benefiting both from copyright and
patent on the same piece of software) and laws like the DMCA which
classify software and explicitly categorize it as a device, so
they can ban it.  (The US Constitution explicitly forbids banning
of materials like books and articles that carry copyright)

Ted
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RE: Fix this: The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved.

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Garrett Cooper
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 8:04 PM
> To: Kyrre Nygård
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Fix this: The Regents of the University of California. All
> rights reserved.
>
>
> Kyrre Nygård wrote:
> > Hello!
> >
> > Is it possible to change:
> >
> > Copyright (c) 1992-2007 The FreeBSD Project.
> > Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994
> > The Regents of the University of California. All rights
> reserved.
> >
> > Over to:
> >
> > Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994
> > The Regents of the University of California.
> > All rights reserved.
> >
> > If so, how is it done?
> >
> > To have `All rights reserved.' apply to both copyright
> statements, it is necessary to break it down to the next line. It
> would also look a whole lot neater, as the last number of `1994'
> now aligns with the last letter of `reserved' using a monospaced
> font, which ends up looking kind of weird. Trust me on this one.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Kyrre Nygård + mir-visuals.com + snoarc.no
>
> Now why would you want to do that? That's cutting FreeBSD totally out of
> the picture, which isn't correct since they're the copyright owners of
> the FreeBSD project from 1992 to today.
>

Re-read what he said, Garrett:

"To have `All rights reserved.' apply to BOTH copyright
statements, it is necessary to break it down to the next line.

Cutting FreeBSD out would leave ONE, not multiple, copyright lines.
"BOTH" would not apply.  He intended the first copyright line to
remain, he just didn't print it.

He is actually right, and it should be filed as a PR.  Gramatically,
right now the all rights reserved line does not apply to the
first copyright line.

Of course, to be really nitpicky, the (c) should be removed, because
WTPO has already come out and stated that (c) isn't a valid copyright
indicator, you must completely enclose the c in a circle.

Ted

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RE: freebsd network fax server?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

The problem with the printserver routine is you have no way to
specify the recipient fax number.  Emailing the fax to the hylafax
server is the way to go.

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dave
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 9:32 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Anish Mistry
> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: freebsd network fax server?
>
>
> Hi,
> I do have windows clients, and i do not have any fax client
> software for
> them. I thought i could just go through a cups printserver that
> i've got but
> haven't seen anything to get that going. I am open to suggestions.
> Thanks.
> Dave.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Thanos Rizoulis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Anish Mistry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 11:39 AM
> Subject: Re: freebsd network fax server?
>
>
> > O/H Anish Mistry Ýãñáøå:
> >> On Thursday 24 May 2007, Dave wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >> I've got a setup using HylaFAX.
> >
> > The critical parts of the question about Hylafax are:
> > a) are you using hylafax server with windows clients? and if yes
> > b) what cliesnt software are you using to send faxes? (there
> are dosens of
> > them)
> >
> > I am interested too in such a solution and I am stuck at what client to
> > select for windows based machines.
> >
> > --
> > RTFM and STFW before anything bad happens
> > _
> > Thanos Rizoulis
> > Electronic Computing Systems Engineer
> > Larissa, Greece
> > FreeBSD/PCBSD user
> > ___
> > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
> > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
> > To unsubscribe, send any mail to
> > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
>
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RE: This is a error message i receive when I try to install any pack using the package_add -r

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of dbetts
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 7:23 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: RE:This is a error message i receive when I try to install any
> pack using the package_add -r 
> 
> 
> It happens with every package. I am using ATT DSL with 2wire 2701HG-B 
> Gateway.
> I have checked all my settings on the firewall and I am able to FTP into 
> the server and FTP out from all my other workstations on my network. 
> This started after I switched to ATT. I called ATT and had them check 
> everything and of course nothing was wrong at there end.

I think what is going on is ATT is using PPP mode DSL and is using a MTU
size less than 1500, and ICMP is blocked between you and the FTP server.
I assume you have the DSL PPP terminated on the 2wire modem?  And your
using the NAT inside of the 2wire?  If so, switch the 2wire into bridged
mode and terminate the PPPoE session on the BSD box.

Ted
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RE: raid or not raid

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of kalin mintchev
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 4:11 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: raid or not raid
>
>
> > On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 06:30:06AM -0400, kalin mintchev wrote:
> >>
> >> so nobody on this list knows anything about raid?
> >> wrong list?
> >>
> >> > hi all..
> >> >
> >> > i have a box in a remote hosting facility that claims that
> the machine
> >> has
> >> > two discs raided in it but df and fstab show only one disc with a
> >> bunch of
> >> > slices.
> >> > under devices there is another name - ad6 - but it's not mounted
> >> anywhere.
> >> > the one i see both in df and the fstab is ad4 with one big slice and
> >> > different partitions
> >
> > My (VIA Tech V-RAID) raid disk shows up as ar0, although the ad4 and ad6
> > device nodes exist as well.
> >
> > Do you have the ataraid device in the kernel?
>
> yes. but isn;t that in by default in 5.4 GENERIC?!
>
> >> > they insist there are 2 raided discs in tha machine. the os
> is 5.4 and
> >> i
> >> > think at that point the raid drivers were still considered
> >> > 'experimental'.
> >
> > Then ask them how it's done.
> >
> >> > it makes sense to me that if i don't see a second drive in the fstab
> >> there
> >> > isn;t any mounting which means that there is no raid going on...
> >
> > If you're seeing an ad device, it's not RAID-ed, AFAIK.
> >
> >> > is there any other way i can make sure if raid is actually on?
> >> > would there will be any logs somewhere?
> >> > the machine has been up for about 2 years and the dmesg is long
> >> gone...
> >
> > It should be in /var/run/dmesg.boot.
>
> thanks. i guess that solves the ad6 mistery:
>
> atapci0:  port
> 0xfc00-0xfc0f,0x376,0x170-0x177,0x3f6,0x1f0-0x1f7 at device 31.1 on pci0
> ata0: channel #0 on atapci0
> ata1: channel #1 on atapci0
> atapci1:  port
> 0xcc80-0xcc8f,0xcc98-0xcc9b,0xcca0-0xcca7,0xccb0-0xccb3,0xccb8-0xccbf irq
> 18 at device 31.2 on pci0
> ata2: channel #0 on atapci1
> ata3: channel #1 on atapci1
> .
> ad4: 152587MB  [310019/16/63] at ata2-master
> SATA150
> ad6: 152587MB  [310019/16/63] at ata3-master
> SATA150
> Mounting root from ufs:/dev/ad4s1a
>
> unless "at device 31.2 on pci0" points to some RAID evidence - which i
> think it's false - than i read this as the ad6 disk sits there unused.
> am i right?!
>
> according to pciconf the atapci0 and atapci1 are differnt conrollers -
> EIDE and SATA so they can both be on pci0 as 31.1 and 31.2?! still no RAID
> though...
>

I've come late to this thread but it's been interesting watching the
speculation.

Yes, they F'd up the installation.  Badly.  But you need to back up every
scrap of data before trying to fix it.  And use FBSD 6.2 on the next one.
There's been lots of driver fixes in the ata driver that you want.

ata raid should show all your data on AR not AD!!  Here's an example
from my mailserver:

mail# cat /etc/fstab
# DeviceMountpoint  FStype  Options Dump
Pass#
/dev/ar0s1b noneswapsw  0   0
/dev/ar0s1a /   ufs rw  1   1
/dev/ar0s1e /usrufs rw  2   2
/dev/ar0s1d /varufs rw  2   2
/dev/acd0   /cdrom  cd9660  ro,noauto   0   0
mail#

Also, note the following.  VERY important!

When you go to setup a RAID mirror on a system, using a UDMA or SATA
controller,
(ie: NOT using a RAID5 card or SCSI card or some such) here is what you do.

Start by going into the system RAID BIOS on boot, setup your RAID, then
boot the install disk.  Disks ad4 and ad6 will always show.  If disk ar0
also shows, you can select ar0 and install to that.

IF DISK ar0 DOES NOT SHOW, then your BIOS "metadata" isn't compatible. STOP.
Reboot system.  GO into BIOS.  DESELECT and DISABLE the RAID.

Boot system with install CD.  At the screen that displays ad4 and ad6,
select
ad4.  Select Minimal install.  Don't bother answering any post install
questions.
Finish install.  Reboot and login to root.  At command line, issue command:

atacontrol create RAID1 ad4 ad6

Immediately reboot from the install CD.  Now, at the disk selection screen
you will see ar0.  Select this.  Delete all existing partitions and recreate
them, install the full system and your in business.

Ted

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RE: Sendmail ignores hosts.allow

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Maxim Khitrov
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 6:14 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Sendmail ignores hosts.allow
> 
> however, I had a feeling that it was jail-related. But what about the
> hosts.allow problem? I can run a firewall, of course, but hosts.allow
> seems like a more efficient way of doing the same thing. I've already
> got it configured and working with sshd, so I see no reason why
> sendmail doesn't want to work the same way.
> 

You said earlier that your sendmail was compiled with tcp wrapper
support.  How exactly did you go about doing this and installing it?

In any case, since your not going to be using sendmail much, if your
that paranoid I would suggest you simply disable it and run it out
of inetd.  Then use the usual tcpd method (in the man page) to run
inetd.

Ted

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RE: just general questions about fbsd

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin Kinsey
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 3:19 PM
> To: Anton Galitch
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: just general questions about fbsd
> 
> 
> Anton Galitch wrote:
> > Hi
> > Im writing an article about FreeBSD and want to ask some few question:
> > 
> > - Do the FBSD developers work for free?
> 
> Heh, you mean, at what job?  Most of them work somewhere for
> money, I'm pretty sure. ;-) Occasionally companies will "grant" money
> to a certain developer to remain "unemployed" by others and spend more
> time on FreeBSD.  IIRC, Poul Henning-Kamp got a good portion of a year's
> salary in a fund-raising campaign last year, mostly from some of
> the larger companies listed below.
> 
> Some companies pay an employee a regular salary, but allow or 
> even encourage them to work on FreeBSD as part of their job.
> 
> However, the majority of developers work on FreeBSD in their free time,
> for the love of the system, without much more compensation than the
> satisfaction of a job well done.
> 

I think the majority of developers have FreeBSD involved in some manner
in their jobs, and a lot of times they need something put into it, or
they need a tool to run on it.  Not that their job description specifically
lists "working on the FreeBSD system" but that they are given a lot of
leeway as to how they come up with solutions to their employers problems.

If I was, for example, an employer paying a developer a
salary to write code to keep my business running, I would expect
that whatever OS he preferred to use to run the programs he's writing for
me, he would have source for it.  Microsoft in fact has a specific program
for developers to be able to access Windows source.  Furthermore, I would
also expect that if my developer ran into a problem that was due to
a bug in the OS source, that he would have a channel to get this corrected.
If it was a Windows platform, I would certainly inform my MS sales rep
that continued payment and purchase of MS os licenses was absolutely
contingent on them taking bug corrections from my employee that needed
fixing in their code, bugs that were preventing my developer from building
software that I needed.

> At least, that is what I think/hope/sincerely want to believe :-)
> 
> > - What advanced features it has that for example Windows, or MacOS 
> dont
> > have?
> 

Windows, even the server versions of Windows, are fundamentally desktop
software operating systems that are at times pressed into being servers.

FreeBSD and the other UNIXES are fundamentally server operating systems
that are at times pressed into being desktops.

Remember, UNIX came out of the multiuser environment, where you had
a lot of people connected via dumb ASCII terminals to a single mainframe.
>From the beginning, concepts like reentrant code, and separation of
user authority, have been ingrained in it.

Consider for example the extreme difficulty that Microsoft has had
with the simple concept of a "superuser".  A superuser is, as you may
know, a userID on the system that has authority to do anything, change
anything, and that the normal security mechanisms do not apply to.
Under UNIX this is the "root" user ID.

Well, with Windows, in the Win 3.1/win95/win98/winME series, anyone
who booted the Windows system was automatically the superuser.  This
causes a lot of problems as you might imagine with programs, as if a
program has a bug or goes out of control somehow, since the user it
is running under has no security, the program can destroy anything on
the system.

With UNIX, normally, programs are not run under the superuser ID,
they are run under a normal user ID.  Thus programs cannot normally
damage the system.   Microsoft observed the value of this paradigm
and so put it into Windows NT - although, under NT, they called
the superuser "the administrative user" most likely, because they
didn't want anyone to realize they were just copying how UNIX does
things.  But, "administrator" under Windows, and "root" under UNIX are
essentially the same thing.

The problem, though, is that because the concept of the superuser
ID was grafted onto Windows, if you setup Windows so that when it
boots, a person logs into it as a regular user, they have a lot of
problems.  They cannot install software, they cannot run a lot of
different network software, they cannot make changes in simple things
like the screen resolution, and so on.  Both Windows NT and Windows 2K
were setup by Microsoft out of the box like this - when you installed
them, you had to tell them a regular userID and an administrator
userID.  But, due to the problems, Microsoft went to a model in
both Windows XP and Windows Vista, where when you install and set
it up, BY DEFAULT, you are put in as a superuser (administrator)

This saves Microsoft a lot of support calls from people calling in
demanding to know why the Windows OS won't let them do simple things

RE: looking for ethernet errors, collisions

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Yipe, that is very high compared to what I've seen.  You must
have cabling problems or more likely a chipset incompatability
with the ethernet chip in your switch, and the sis chip.

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: Michael P. Soulier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 6:10 PM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: looking for ethernet errors, collisions
> 
> 
> On 17/05/07 Ted Mittelstaedt said:
> 
> > Note that error counters are often bogus because so
> > many cards today filter errors out in hardware, long before
> > the OS driver gets them.
> 
> Well, there are plenty there on my sis0 interface (internal). 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ netstat -i
> NameMtu Network   Address  Ipkts IerrsOpkts Oerrs
> Coll
> sis0   1500   00:0a:e6:4a:56:c2 37989565  3980 36808783  5749
> 6492857 
> sis0   1500 192.168.1 kanga 12380344 -  9255757 -
> - 
> sis0   1500 fe80:1::20a:e fe80:1::20a:e6ff:0 -7 -
> - 
> fxp0   1500   00:a0:c9:9a:b0:f2 29693875 12009 27373887 0
> 1846203 
> fxp0   1500 fe80:2::2a0:c fe80:2::2a0:c9ff:0 -3 -
> - 
> plip0  15000 00 0
> 0 
> lo0   16384   235446 0   235446 0
> 0 
> lo0   16384 your-net  localhost   228064 -   228064 -
> - 
> lo0   16384 localhost.dig ::1413 -  413 -
> - 
> lo0   16384 fe80:4::1 fe80:4::10 -0 -
> - 
> tun0   1492 29408809 0 27143719 0
> 0 
> tun0   1492 2001:410:90fc 2001:410:90fc:4:20 -1 -
> - 
> tun0   1492 216.106.102.7 hs-216-106-102-70  1535341 -  1578465 -
> - 
> tun0   1492 fe80:5::a1ed: fe80:5::a1ed:c9e80 -2 -
> - 
> 
> Mike
> 
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RE: smartmontools on Compaq smart array fails

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Nick Jagger
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:19 PM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: smartmontools on Compaq smart array fails
>
>
> - Original Message 
>
> smartmontools isn't the appropriate program
>
> you need to use a program called idacontrol
>
> get it from ftp.jurai.net/users/winter/idacontrol.tar
>
> More on PR i386/70482
>
> Use smartmontools on ATA disks.  Your 360 uses SCSI disks
> on a proprietary controller which doesen't support the interface
> needed to run it.
> ---
>
> Thank you Ted, idacontrol works fine and returns some usefull
> information about the attached disk drives.
>
> I also found this suggestion interesting:
>
> #define IDA_QCB_MAX = 128 instead of 256
>
> in sys/dev/ida/idavar.h
>
>
>
> because one of my DL360's resets itself about once a month with a
> very similar error as mentioned in thread
>
> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-scsi/2005-September/002034.html
>
> ida0: soft error
> ida_command: out of QCBsida0: ida_timeout() qactive 256
> ida0: IDA_INTERRUPTS
> ida0:   R_CMD_FIFO: 
>  R_DONE_FIFO: 
>  R_INT_MASK: 
>  R_STATUS: 
>  R_INT_PENDING: Nick
>

You have one of those that does that too, eh?  So do we.  I think it is
because it's using non-Compaq disk drives, and there is a firmware bug
in the drive.

Ted

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RE: Kernel build question (options and so forth)

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

try the generic kernel and see if it works.

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andrew Falanga
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:11 PM
> To: freebsd-questions
> Subject: Kernel build question (options and so forth)
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> In addition to my quest to upgrade this 6.0-RELEASE to 6.2-RELEASE-p4,
> I have a question about the kernel and SMP.  This system has two
> processors and I want to make sure I'm going to build an SMP capable
> kernel, especially, considering I'm going from 6.0 to 6.2.  I managed
> to find a past posting to this list saying that from 6.2 on, SMP is
> detected and used by default; will this happen for me?  Should I edit
> /usr/src/sys//conf/MYKERNEL with something like "options SMP" or
> whatever it is?  (I'm only guessing here, and I want to make sure I
> get an SMP kernel.)
> 
> Thanks,
> Andy
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RE: looking for ethernet errors, collisions

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Note that error counters are often bogus because so
many cards today filter errors out in hardware, long before
the OS driver gets them.

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael P.
> Soulier
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 8:26 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: looking for ethernet errors, collisions
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm used to this showing on the interface in the ifconfig output 
> on Linux, but
> on FreeBSD it doesn't seem to show errors, collisions, etc. What's the
> standard way to show that on FreeBSD?
> 
> I'm finding my network connection very bursty of late, sudden lags for no
> apparent reason, etc. 
> 
> Mike
> -- 
> Michael P. Soulier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It
> takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite
> direction." --Albert Einstein
> 
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RE: DNS Cache - Bind

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

if your not running with -4 you will get this, unless you
have IPv6 configured of course...

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jack Barnett
> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 7:46 PM
> To: freeBSD
> Subject: DNS Cache - Bind
> 
> 
> I'm running Bind 9.3.4 on FreeBSD 6.2 for my local network.
> 
> It doesn't have any zones, it's just a local DNS that has a bunch 
> of forwarders.
> 
> The first request is slow (between 150 and 300 ms) - but after that
> (the next query on same domain) is fast (less then 10 ms usually).
> This is nice and working the way I like it. :)
> 
> What I'm wondering though is:
> 
> a) How do I flush the cache if I need to (ie. need to get a new update
> from the forwards) - just restart named?
> 
> b) Are there any settings I can tweak that determine how long the
> cache is kept?  (ie. Say I want to keep all queries for 7 days before
> they are queried from the upstream DNS servers).  [This will probably
> screw up dynamic DNS sites, but want to see what settings are
> available]
> 
> c) Is there a easy way to 'blacklist' sites?  Say I want
> 'SpammerNetwork.com' to resolve to 127.0.0.1.
> 
> Basically I want to take this host file:
> http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm
> and then pump it into my DNS server, that way all the LAN clients are
> "protected" from these sites.
> Is there a way to do that?
> 
> 
> -J
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RE: SMP issues with i386/6.2 RELEASE and Compaq DL360 g1

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Yes, here is the magic needed for this:

1) make sure you have select UNIX->LINUX 2.x as the OS type in
the BIOS  (use the HP smartcd to access this)

2) Do not strip out "unused CPU's" like I486_CPU, I586_CPU
from your kernel config file.

3) Make sure to either build a GENERIC or SMP kernel with
ALL of the devices that are in GENERIC.  Do NOT strip out any
"unused" devices.  I realize this makes the kernel bigger - but
what appears to be going on, is that the command to "wake up" the
second CPU is being sent too soon after the initial probes for the
acpi controller have taken place.  At least, that is my theory.
Another theory I have is that one of the device probes for an
unused device is tickling some piece of hardware on the motherboard
that if not otherwise tickled, the second CPU won't wake up.

I haven't done further effort to isolate this, but I've seen
the problem on the DL320 as well.  If you have the time to play with
multiple kernel configurations I'm sure you can stumble across what
the issue is.

Ted


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ian Lord
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 12:24 AM
> To: 'James Price'; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: RE: SMP issues with i386/6.2 RELEASE and Compaq DL360 g1
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Price
> Sent: 16 mai 2007 02:51
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: SMP issues with i386/6.2 RELEASE and Compaq DL360 g1
>
> Has anyone else seen issues while trying to boot an SMP kernel on a
> Compaq DL360 G1 with the latest P21 bios (11/2002).
>
> I can't seem to get it to recognize both processors...
>
> Thanks,
> James
>
>
> ~~~
> I installed a 6.2 release (default install)
>
> On two dl360 G1 Today without any problem... Both processors were detected
> fine.
>
> I have a dual P3 550 and a dual P3 866
>
> It went fine without any tweaking or special kernel config
>
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RE: smartmontools on Compaq smart array fails

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

smartmontools isn't the appropriate program

you need to use a program called idacontrol

get it from ftp.jurai.net/users/winter/idacontrol.tar

More on PR i386/70482

Use smartmontools on ATA disks.  Your 360 uses SCSI disks
on a proprietary controller which doesen't support the interface
needed to run it.

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Nick Jagger
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:14 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: smartmontools on Compaq smart array fails
>
>
> I installed smartmontools from ports on FreeBSD 6.0 on a Compaq
> Proliant DL360 with smart array 5i controller.  I compiled it
> with ciss support. When running ¡smartctl -i -d cciss,0 /dev/ida0¢
>  I am getting:
>
> smartctl version 5.37 [i386-portbld-freebsd6.0] Copyright (C)
> 2002-6 Bruce Allen
> Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/
> CCISS ioctl error: Inappropriate ioctl for device
> CCISS ioctl error: Inappropriate ioctl for device
> Short INQUIRY response, skip product id
> A mandatory SMART command failed: exiting. To continue, add one
> or more '-T permissive' options.
>
> However, adding -T permissive options doesn't make a difference.
> Searching the archives and the web didn't bring a solution. I
> hope someone out there has one.
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
> __
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RE: camcontrol

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Grant Peel
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 5:51 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: camcontrol
> 
> 
> I have already set camcontrol to tell the system to stop using 
> that part of the drive per the FAQ and Handbook:
> 
> AWRE (Auto Write Reallocation Enbld):  1
> ARRE (Auto Read Reallocation Enbld):  1
> But, it still tries to read the block in question (3abd5c1).

Then you are screwed.  The drive is using some sort of remapping and
the actual block with the problem is somewhere else.

> It 
> is always that same block, so the badness does not seem to be 
> growing.Is there a way to diagnose what file it is trying to 
> read? (perhaps I could remove that inode?)

No and no.

What you need to do is backup the disk, then boot into MS-DOS and
run the disk drive manufacturer's software that forces the SCSI disk
to update it's bad sector list and remap the bad block.

A modern SCSI disk should NEVER show an error because it is always
silently remapping bad sectors.

All disks lose a sector now and then, that is why they have spare
sectors and a bad sector list.  You will never see a report of a bad
sector until the day comes that the disk has had so many sectors
fail that it's used up it's spare sectors.

Years ago there were some disks that while they had this capability
it was disabled by default - I have no idea why - and when a bad sector
did develop the disk would report it until you sent the device a
scsi format command, then the remapping would happen.

There are some disk programs on the Internet that can do this as
well.

Ted




-Grant- Original 
> Message - 
>   From: Lowell Gilbert 
>   To: Grant Peel 
>   Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org 
>   Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 10:51 AM
>   Subject: Re: camcontrol
> 
> 
>   "Grant Peel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
>   > I have a disk that may be going bad, SCSI.
>   >
>   > How do I tell camcontrol to stop using parts of the disk that 
> show errors?
>   >
>   > such as:
>   >
>   > (da0:ahc0:0:1:0): READ(10). CDB: 28 0 3 ab d5 c1 0 0 e 0 
>   > (da0:ahc0:0:1:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:3abd5c1 asc:11,1
>   > (da0:ahc0:0:1:0): Read retries exhausted sks:80,3f
> 
>   Please see the FAQ entry on this topic.
>   ___
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RE: Old 4.2 user, with 6.2 newbie questions

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

sendmail is much newer on 6.2, I would ask on the fetchmail mailing
list if I were you.  I've never used fetchmail myself, but I had
to make a number of changes in various scripts and such that communicated
with sendmail when I updated a server from 4x to 6x as they changed/broke
things in the newer sendmail.  (for security reasons no doubt)

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chuck Grimes
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 9:55 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Old 4.2 user, with 6.2 newbie questions
> 
> 
> 
> I am in the process of moving from 4.2-RELEASE on an old box to
> 6.2-RELEASE on a new box (Core 2 Duo, DG965WH mobo, GeForce 7600gs,
> 1G RAM, 400G sata drive). I need to figure out a couple of userland
> changes to the default 6.2 installation which took about an hour and
> went great.
> 
> I have a shell account on my isp which runs 4.10-STABLE. In my old 4.2
> box I have fetchmail set to log in, get mail and hand it over to local
> sendmail to put it in my local /var/mail/user directory on my old
> machine. I also use rsh (I know, don't) to log in to my shell
> account. I use my own sendmail to send mail out to various lists on
> the old box. I masquerade as my isp in sendmail, which puts the
> appropriate user name on my headers.
> 
> Ok. In 6.2 box I've turned off local only mail (no submit.cf) and have
> sendmail maquerade working. I can send email out as a user, but I can't
> retrieve mail on my isp via fetchmail.
> 
> I think ppp is configured correctly because I can telnet just fine to
> my shell account, but I can't rsh. It hangs after the password has
> been sent (yes you are not supposed to need a password with rlogin,
> but my isp uses one anyway for minium security). 
> 
> If I am root and switch during rsh/rlogin login to my username, I can
> get a little further along. I get the first few system announcements
> on the shell server, and then the terminal hangs. I have to kill the
> rlogin PID to get back the ttyN terminal.
> 
> There also seems to be buffer overflows or conflicts between the mouse
> (on a usb port, usm0), 56k modem (PCI, sio0 remapped to sio4?), and
> printer (lpt0). In ppp, I use /dev/cuad4, despite the fact the modem
> is reported in dmesg as on sio0. Whatever is going on at some lower
> layer, all these devices work with random messages about stray
> irq's---so I am ignoring them at the moment. In other words, I can use
> dial-up, the mouse works, and the printer prints (via lp). Seems good
> enough for the moment.
> 
> There have obviously been changes to the 6.2 base install that I don't
> know about that probably account for some of these problems. 
> Unfortunately,
> most of these issues are no covered in the manuals that came with 
> the CDs, or
> the coverage was out of date
> 
> Suggestions on where to look, things to check and change would be
> greatly appreciated. At the moment I am more interested in getting
> correct behavior, than I am concerned with security. 
> 
> My first priority is getting fetchmail running. Here is the
> fetchmailrc dot file:
> 
> defaults proto pop3 
> user mailname 
> poll my.isp.com 
> pass x 
> set daemon 840 
> 
> As user, I can run fetchmail at the command line, without an error
> message, but it also doesn't get and deliver any mail. I can send
> email to myself, but I am sure it never leaves the machine. The
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] is correct---so sendmail masquerade is working. For
> example, sendmail does not write: [EMAIL PROTECTED], as it
> would without masquerade.
> 
> I changed the permissions on sendmail back to:
> 
> $ ll -r-sr-xr-x  1 root  wheel 583680 Jan 11 23:42  sendmail
> 
> from 6.2 default:
> 
> $ ll -rwsr-xr-x  1 root  wheel 583680 Jan 11 23:42  sendmail
> 
> I've tried it both ways and niether seems to make any difference.
> 
> My general impression is that 6.2 has set up restrictions or modified
> rsh and fetcmail---or perhaps these are fine, but don't interact well
> with older verisons, i.e 4.10. Although I can ftp to my shell
> and down load files. 
> 
> Also I updated the ports via ftp as root, and everything took forever,
> but seems to work fine. For example I use Magicfilter which was not in
> the cd's, so from ports/printer, I downloaded Magicfilter, compiled
> and installed it and it works fine as a postscript filter for lpr. 
> 
> I know these are quite a few questions, but any suggestions on any of
> them would be much appreciated.
> 
> CG
> 
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RE: Stable many-port SATA controller recommendations

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Peter Schuller
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 2:25 PM
> To: Peter Schuller; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Stable many-port SATA controller recommendations
> 
> 
> > Promise are supposed to be one of the better makes when it comes to
> > documentation and open source support, 
> 
> Yes, that was my impression prior to purchasing the two TX4:s.
> 
> > what problems are you seeing?
> 
> I can easily (dd if=/dev/zero of=testfile bs=$((1024*1024)) count=500)
> trigger within a few seconds:
> 
> WARNING - WRITE_DMA48 UDMA ICRC error (retrying request) LBA=

please post dmesg!

Be aware that some disk drives do the wrong thing.  Western Digital desktop
disks, for example, don't simply remap a sector when they find a bad one,
they sit there scrubbing forever trying to reread the data.  WD calls this
a "feature" and their server-quality WD disks that cost more don't do this.
It makes use of these disks impossible in a raid array.  Seagates and
Maxtor desktop drives to my knowledge don't do this.

Ted

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RE: cdrecord "hangs" system (while blanking cd)

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

It is hardware but since you've already decided it isn't, this
post is probably a waste of electrons.

But for anyone else who is actually interested in troubleshooting
and not jumping to conclusions, the problem is the drive isn't
handling the full atapi command set properly.  The drivers work
around this to some extent, but is this really a problem, after all?
The system isn't panicing or crashing, and burning a cd is a
desktop application anyhow.

You can get a different CD-RW burner (Goodwill sells them for $5 a drive
nowadays) and find that some models work like this one, some work
perfectly, and some don't work at all.


Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Edmunds Bergs
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 1:07 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: cdrecord "hangs" system (while blanking cd)
>
>
> Hi!
>
> I was very surprised that when I`m useing cdrecord, (I`ve already tested
> that only when I`m doing some blanking)
> # cdrecord dev=0,1,0 blank=all
> all the system sticks, hangs,
>  or
> ... I would say system is going into some mysterious state, like
> cdrecord swallows all resources,
> so I can do nothing, only can wait for cdrecord when it ends blanking.
> After cdrecord has done its work, system is back and running again as
> usual and I can run commands in shell again.
> I`ve already cheked with portaudit - no problems found in installed ports,
> also cdrtools which includes cdrecord is up-to-date.
> I`m sure my hardware is ok (IMHO), cos no other problems are known and
> system is running good.
> I`ve already tried to solve my problem and have one post here
> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=551487
> Any ideas?
>
> I`m running FreeBSD 6.2-RELEASE
> Celeron 1300.05-MHz 686-class CPU
> 256M RAM
> cd0:  Removable CD-ROM SCSI-0 device
>
> Best Regards,
>
> --
> Edmunds
>
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RE: Backing up Samba share to USB jump drive?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bill Moran
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 6:17 PM
> To: L Goodwin
> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Backing up Samba share to USB jump drive?
> 
> 
> L Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Here's another round of dumb questions for ya:
> > 
> > Can USB jump drives be used to back-up a Samba share?
> > If so, what do I need to do to prepare the USB drive
> > to accept files? 
> > Since I don't really need to compress or encrypt, I
> > was thinking about simply copying the entire directory
> > tree using the cp command, instead of using dump, tar,
> > cpio.
> > Will this work, and is it a "good idea"?
> 
> Sure.
> 
> > The filesystem to be backed up is a single common UFS
> > shared via Samba. All PC users have access to the same
> > set of files (no user-specific directories). The files
> > to be backed up are Word, Excel, PDF, etc.
> 
> Every jump drive I've seen comes pre-formatted as FAT-32.  The only
> problem with this is you'll lose POSIX file permissions when you copy
> the files. 


Use the tar program on the UNIX system to save your files then copy 
them over, this will preserve permissions, etc.

Ted
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RE: Disk problems?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

check to see if the drive mfgr has a firmware update for your disks

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jack Barnett
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 1:15 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Disk problems?
> 
> 
> hrm... ?
> 
> Doing it again:
> > twa0: INFO: (0x04: 0x000B): Rebuild started: unit=0
> > twa0: ERROR: (0x04: 0x003A): Drive power on reset detected: port=0
> > twa0: ERROR: (0x04: 0x003A): Drive power on reset detected: port=1
> > twa0: ERROR: (0x04: 0x003A): Drive power on reset detected: port=0
> > twa0: ERROR: (0x04: 0x003A): Drive power on reset detected: port=1
> > twa0: INFO: (0x04: 0x0005): Rebuild completed: unit=0
> > twa0: ERROR: (0x04: 0x003A): Drive power on reset detected: port=0
> > twa0: ERROR: (0x04: 0x0002): Degraded unit: unit=0, port=0
> > twa0: ERROR: (0x04: 0x0009): Drive timeout detected: port=1
> > twa0: ERROR: (0x04: 0x003A): Drive power on reset detected: port=1
> > twa0: ERROR: (0x04: 0x000A): Drive error detected: unit=0, port=1
> 
> now says both disks are having problems (I removed the other two disks
> and just keeping the two root drives in array unit 1):
> 
> Unit UnitType  Status %RCmpl  %V/I/M  Port  Stripe  Size(GB)
> 
> u0   RAID-1DEGRADED*  -   -   - -   74.4951
> u0-0 DISK  WARNING-   -   p1-   74.4951
> u0-1 DISK  DEGRADED   -   -   p0-   74.4951
> 
> 
> What the ?
> 
> I tested both of these under WinXP and they come up fine.  No errors,
> nothing when running windows.  Under FreeBSD, it throws those errors
> above and then sets them degraded (and then the bios flags them on
> reboot) - but if I run windows, it never flags them and everything is
> fine.
> 
> Another thing I noticed is that under FreeBSD the drives will starts
> "clicking" and making god awful noises, really loud clicking like the
> heads are jerking back and forth really fast.  Doesn't happen in
> windows, they run really quite and smooth.  Is this some sort of bad
> driver messing up my disks?  I don't know what the hell it's doing to
> my drives, but it sounds god awful... I have it booted in windows now
> and it doesn't do that.  I've never seen this before.
> 
> Why does it keep clicking my drives like that and why is it throwing
> errors?  I've rebuild this array about a half dozen times already.
> 
> I synced to 6.2 rel and rebuild both kernel and world, but something
> doesn't seem right :(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 5/7/07, Jack Barnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I have a 3ware (AMCC) 9500S-4LP RAID card and 4 disks in 2 
> Mirror 1 arrays:
> > Unit 1: 2 x 80 gigs
> > Unit 2: 2 x 400 gigs
> >
> > Under windows this was working fine.  Both disks where 
> "healthy" and running (I could test this by unplugging one or the other):
> >
> > Under FreeBSD though, it says it's not working:
> > May  7 13:57:37 fire kernel: twa0: INFO: (0x04: 0x000B): 
> Rebuild started: unit=0
> > May  7 13:57:37 fire kernel: twa0: INFO: (0x04: 0x000B): 
> Rebuild started: unit=1
> > May  7 13:57:48 fire kernel: twa0: ERROR: (0x04: 0x003A): Drive 
> power on reset detected: port=0
> >
> > The rebuild message is fine, but keeps getting "Drive power on 
> reset detected: port=0"
> >
> > In the 3ware BIOS, it shows all drives as "active" (ie. powered 
> on and connected), so don't know why the kernel thinks it's 
> powered down?  Does it mean something else?
> >
> > If I just "wait" for about 20 minutes, the drives start rebuilding:
> >
> > Unit  UnitType  Status %RCmpl  %V/I/M  Stripe  Size(GB) 
>  Cache  AVrfy
> > 
> --
> 
> > u0RAID-1REBUILDING 37  -   -   74.4951  
>  OFFOFF
> > u1RAID-1REBUILDING 13  -   -   372.519  
>  OFFOFF
> >
> >
> > (it's in Unit one above, 37% complete).  So even though it's 
> getting this "Drive power on reset detected" it eventually 
> rebuilds it's self. ?
> >
> > Any ideas what this message means?  I thought it was an error, 
> but seems fine since it's rebuilding it's self. ?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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RE: Another slightly OT q...

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gary Kline
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 7:19 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: Gary Kline; FreeBSD Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Another slightly OT q...
>
>
>
>   So it *was* a hoax?  Rats.  Some weeks ago on Public
>   Broadcasting, a few sentences were spoken on the potential of
>   fractal geometry to achieve [I'm guessing] data-compression on
>   the order of what Sloot was claiming.  So far, no one has figured
>   it out.  It may be a dream... .
>

There's some cool math out there that explains all of this but I never liked
math, but it isn't necessary to know the math to understand the issue.  Just
consider the problem for a while and you will realize that the compression
ratio of a specific data stream varies dependent on the amount of repetition
in
the input datastream.  A perfectly unrandom datastream, like a constant
series of logical 1's, carries no information, but has a compression ratio
that is infinite.  A perfectly random datastream, on the other hand,
also carries no information, but has a compression ratio that is zero.
I believe that a datastream that is 50% of the way between either extreme
carries the most information, and I believe your typical datastream is much
closer to
the perfectly unrandom side than the perfectly random side, compression is
merely the process of pushing the randomness of the stream closer to the
random side.

Thus, if the input datastream is very close to the perfectly unrandom side -
meaning it has a very high amount of repetition in it, you can get some
pretty spectacular compression ratios.  But as you move closer to unrandom,
you carry less data.  So, the better applications emit datastreams that
are less unrandom, therefore compression does not work as well on them.

This of course is completely ignoring the other data issue, is the
application
data efficient to begin with?  For example, you can transfer about a page of
information in ASCII that consumes about 1K of data, that same page of
information in a MS Word file consumes a hundred times that amount of
space -
Word is therefore extremely inefficient with data.

Probably the worst offender of this are the news websites like www.cnn.com.
They insist on putting more and more news articles into videos rather than
just a couple screens of text.  I just do not see any benefit to the
consumer of a video of an interview with someone like George Bush,
when the video consists of 2 sentence fragments.  The entire story
could be written on a webpage, sans video.  Do they really think the
typical reader doesen't know what he looks like already?

I see this a lot with audio files, also.  For example, how many times have
you come across an .mp3 file that was of speech only - perhaps a professor's
lecture - that's been recorded in CD quality full stereo?  A .wav file
recorded at the lowest sampling rate in mono, which is perfectly acceptable
for speech, would be smaller.

Ted

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RE: FOSS movement in Eugene Oregon is looking for help.

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chad Thompson
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 5:39 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: FOSS movement in Eugene Oregon is looking for help.
>
>
> Attention Free and Open Source Software advocates!!
>
> The City of Eugene, Oregon, U.S.A. is currently looking for an
> *Infrastructure
>
> *Subtle art: When ever the subject of FOSS is brought up in the
> office, the
> answer is a resounding "NO!" or "NEVER!".

Hmm - I guess Eugene probably doesen't even know they are utterly dependent
on it!

whois# nslookup
Default Server:  dns1.ipinc.net
Address:  65.75.192.10

> set type=soa
> eugene-or.gov
Server:  dns1.ipinc.net
Address:  65.75.192.10

Non-authoritative answer:
eugene-or.gov
origin = cens.ci.eugene.or.us
mail addr = dnsadmin.ris.lane.or.us
serial = 12
refresh = 900 (15M)
retry   = 600 (10M)
expire  = 86400 (1D)
minimum ttl = 3600 (1H)

Authoritative answers can be found from:
eugene-or.gov   nameserver = phloem.uoregon.edu
eugene-or.gov   nameserver = cesrvddw.ci.eugene.or.us
phloem.uoregon.edu  internet address = 128.223.32.35
> exit
whois# nmap -O -v phloem.uoregon.edu

Starting nmap 3.93 ( http://www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) at 2007-05-08 18:18 PDT
Initiating SYN Stealth Scan against phloem.uoregon.edu (128.223.32.35) [1668
ports] at 18:18
Discovered open port 53/tcp on 128.223.32.35
The SYN Stealth Scan took 26.59s to scan 1668 total ports.
For OSScan assuming port 53 is open, 67 is closed, and neither are
firewalled
Host phloem.uoregon.edu (128.223.32.35) appears to be up ... good.
Interesting ports on phloem.uoregon.edu (128.223.32.35):
(The 1665 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: filtered)
PORT   STATE  SERVICE
53/tcp open   domain
67/tcp closed dhcpserver
68/tcp closed dhcpclient
Device type: general purpose|broadband router
Running: Linux 2.4.X|2.5.X, D-Link embedded
OS details: Linux 2.4.0 - 2.5.20, Linux 2.4.18 - 2.4.20, Linux 2.4.26, Linux
2.4.27 or D-
>^^^

Link DSL-500T (running linux 2.4)
Uptime 470.190 days (since Mon Jan 23 12:45:26 2006)
TCP Sequence Prediction: Class=random positive increments
 Difficulty=3780165 (Good luck!)
IPID Sequence Generation: All zeros

Nmap finished: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 35.632 seconds
   Raw packets sent: 3355 (135KB) | Rcvd: 20 (1032B)
whois#

Ted

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RE: How to find HorizSync / VertRefresh rates?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Victor Engmark
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 1:24 AM
> To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey
> Cc: FreeBSD Questions
> Subject: Re: How to find HorizSync / VertRefresh rates?
>
>
>
> It "works" in the sense that I get the correct dimensions,

Then it is working.  Your done, quit diddling with it.

> but
> I'm unsure as
> to whether I risk frying the card or screen

You cannot fry either.  An LCD panel has a computer that will take a
specified
range of vert and horz sync frequencies.  As I already mentioned these sync
frequencies are meaningless with an LCD, since the display chip merely
converts
them to what the LCDs in the panel actually need.  It is more expensive to
make a display chip that takes extremely high frequencies and since they
aren't needed for LCD that is why the display chips in the panels do not
accept as high frequencies as a really high quality crt will.

Ted

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RE: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: Bart Silverstrim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 6:01 AM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> Cc: John Levine; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam
>
>
> I would disagree on the blacklisting part.  I think that a lot of the
> bulk software *doesn't* retry, a lot of it is spoofing headers so mail
> isn't going back to where it would if the sender were legitimate, etc.
>

The spoofing has nothing to do with anything.  Greylisting works at the
initial connection phase before the sender has completed the transaction,
the sender knows that the mail hasn't gone through, the headers aren't
used to send a response to the sender.  I assume you know that, but the
way your wording this, someone unfamiliar with it may not understand this
point.

Sure, a lot of -old- bulk mail software doesen't retry - when they started
putting cars on the road, the majority of people still had horses.  But,
once they started putting cars on the road, the horses's days were
numbered.

If the majority of spammers spamming you are using old software, your
lucky.  The majority certainly isn't using old software when they spam me.

> Having to send mail to a location more than once means expending 2
> connects instead of 1.  It's a very small tax, but it's one I'm willing
> to impose if it makes their lives one tenth of one percent more
> of a hassle.
>

How does it do that?  Spammmers all send from compromised systems,
and all of this is done under script control.

> > I then added to this later on the intention to show that depending on
> > greylisting alone will not work in the long haul, because it is easy
> > to program around it.  Which the spammers will do once a
> majority of sites
> > use greylisting, and indeed, many spammers are already starting to do
> > right now.
>
> Like I said...if it taxes their resources even one tenth of one percent,
> I'm for it.
>

It's not their resources, it's the resources they have stolen from other
people by breaking into their systems.  Greylisting really, and truly, isn't
a problem for spammers, unless it's coupled with use of blacklists.

>
> > yah yah yah whatever.  As I said before, you are so lost and hung up on
> > the monitoring example that you have completely misinterpreted
> everything
> > that I've said.
>
> Then why did you keep harping on it after I and others pointed out why
> your complaint wasn't such a show stopper?
>

Well, because clearly you didn't even understand the example.  You kept
talking
about me reconfiguring the greylisting on -my- server, as if that would
have anything to do with it.  It appears you have got it now, though.

>
> I'm interested in knowing where in my discussions I said it was the only
> thing to use, the only one I DO use, and that it was a cureall that I
> loved so much.  I was personally looking at trying to combine SA,
> greylisting, and tarpitting, along with filtering by headers and
> stripping or sanitizing attachments/HTML if possible.  You never even
> TRIED to bring up any other solution nor did you discuss the
> effectiveness of other methods when combined.  If you did, point it out.

In a message dated 4/25/2007 to Christopher Hilton:

"...Actually, no.  Greylisting works because it delays the spam injector
long enough that the injector will get blacklisted by the time that the
greylist opens the door for the mail to come in.  Greylisting alone
by itself is getting less and less effective every day"

>   At most, as I recall, you mentioned SA was more effective than
> greylisting

No, what I said on 4/25 was:

"...Since SA has a lot of the major blacklist servers as score-feeders, the
spam that gets past the greylist just gets tagged by SA..."

> (so?  Combine them.  Greylisting helps lower the system load
> when a message does get to SA).  You pointed out you use greylisting and
> it was dying out in effectiveness, and you gave an example that hinted
> if certain businesses use it your world would fall apart because you
> wouldn't be notified in time and your customers would leave you in droves.
>

I said:

"...There are legitimate technical reasons that someone may want their mail
to not be greylisted.  For example..."

And, there are.  I'm not talking about JUST me.  I'm talking about any
customer
that is dependent on using e-mail as a kind of instant-message system.  Say
what you want about how e-mail isn't intended for that, the fact remains
that
a lot of people use it like that.  There's a lot of stuff that people use
in ways it wasn't intended, you can grumble about it all you want, but you
aren't goin

RE: List of UPCs that can auto-shutdown FreeBSD

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Make sure when you buy your UPS and motherboard that
you set it so that it will turn back on automatically,
without human intervention.  Some UPS will not do that
if their batteries get drained and they shut themselves
down.  And some motherboards will not either.

Another good feature is the ability to tell the UPS that
the system is turned off, so that the UPS can shut down
and save it's batteries.

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of L Goodwin
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 12:33 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: List of UPCs that can auto-shutdown FreeBSD
> 
> 
> I need help finding a UPS that can tell a computer
> running FreeBSD 6.2 to shutdown. 
> 
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RE: Is FreeBSD simple enough for Novices, Will FreeBSD accept Office 98 + Publisher?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dag-Erling
> Smørgrav
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 9:36 AM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> Cc: freebsd-questions
> Subject: Re: Is FreeBSD simple enough for Novices,Will FreeBSD accept
> Office 98 + Publisher?
>
>
> "Ted Mittelstaedt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > The publishers got the scent of blood with the Harry Potter books, in
> > some ways those books ruined the book publishing industry.
> Before, nobody
> > thought a mere book could garner that kind of money.  Today,
> they all think
> > this and so are all looking for the next Harry Potter series.
> As a result
> > the publishing companies are buying manuscripts that they think
> are going to
> > be big sellers based on what their marketing people think is
> selling, and
> > not caring if the work is crap or not.  Good work that would
> likely have a
> > niche market is being turned down, crappy work that they think is widely
> > appealing is being published.
>
> This has nothing to do with Harry Potter, it started long before that.
>
> > I suspect that eventually when another decade has gone by and we don't
> > see another Harry Potter series rearing it's head out of the unknown
> > muck, the publishing houses will get back to the work of just looking
> > for good works for large and small markets, developing up and coming
> > authors, and all the stuff they used to do B.H.P.
>
> I doubt it.  You know why?  Because the publishers are at the mercy of
> retailers, and retailers - especially supermarkets and large chains -
> aren't in the business of selling books, they are in the business of
> selling *a* book.  You know which book I mean: the one that's piled
> waist high on a pallet right inside the door.
>
> Everything else in the store is a loss.  A book doesn't have to stay
> on the shelf very long for the hypothetical profit to be eaten up by
> the cost of storing it and of tying up your cash in inventory.  They
> might as well glue the books to the shelves, and save the cost of
> processing a hypothetical sale and restocking.
>
> The pallet is *it*.
>
> Customers don't seem to mind - when you're looking for something to
> read on the train or give away as a present or you just want to be
> able to follow the conversation around the water cooler at work, you
> rarely go further than the pallet.  The odds are, that's the book your
> colleagues are discussing anyway.
>

Sigh.  All very true.  And the worst part of it is,
I kid you not, SEVEN FRAGGING YEARS after AW has shipped books to some of
these retailers I am STILL getting chargebacks on my royalties for returned
books.  Oh, the quantity isn't high - it's down to about maybe 5-10 books
a quarter now - but those retailers appear to have no problem with letting
a book sit for 5 years, then returning it
for credit back to the publisher.  I have no clue why AW gives them credit.
Probably, they are afraid of never getting an order from the retailer again.

Luckily I had the foresight to not sign an advance contract, so they have
no legal claim to get the money out of me - but if I ever publish with
them again, I'm sure that negative balance will come out of the woodwork.

> This is the same phenomenon that, in the game industry, killed the
> combat flight simulator and almost killed the adventure game.  It's
> not that people don't buy them, it's that retailers don't want to sell
> them because they don't sell in large volumes immediately upon their
> release.
>

Yes, and that is why I buy less and less specific stuff from retailers.
I only buy commodity items nowadays from retailers.

Case in point.  When I put together my latest server from leftovers,
3 fans were bad, one was on the CPU heatsink and the other two were in
an odd area of the case.  There was no way in hell that I could buy
replacements locally.  And these were not strange sized fans.  The best
I could do is a local electronics distributor could order them for me.
At about $10-$15 per fan.  And I'm in the middle of a city, not in
podunkville.  I ended up waiting a few days and buying them online -
grand total for all 3 was under $15, and they were good quality ball
bearing, not sleeve bearing junk.

Time was that the retailers understood that at any given time, 1/3 to
1/2 of their inventory wouldn't make money because it would just move
too slow.  However, the existence of said inventory would draw the
customers into the store and keep them coming back.  And when they
were in the store they would be buying the profitable stuff because
it was convenient, because they were standing right there.

Then the MBAs

RE: A good server motherboard.

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher
> Prance
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 8:02 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: A good server motherboard.
>
>
> If you were to build a server using FreeBSD 6.2 , basically for home use,
> serving media files, small web server, basically a very small load, which
> motherboard would you recommend?  Mid range as far as price is concerned.
>

Recently my father's home system's disk died, he wanted a faster system
so I convinced him to buy a new MB, ram, HD and CPU and let me install it
in his case (he had recently replaced the power supply with an ATX II
supply) and reload Win2K on it, rather than go out and buy a new system
with Vista preloaded, and then have to deal with 3/4 of his software
not working and having to be upgraded.

I deliberately selected the cheapest motherboard the local computer
store had in stock - $89 it was.  AMD Seperon CPU.  Gig of ram, 80GB
disk, etc.  Manucturer was FIC or Elitegroup, I can't recall which.

I was stunned and amazed at how advanced, how good, the board is.  Easy
to setup, no problem loading software, didn't have to use special drivers,
and stable as a rock.  And a host of features.

I took his old board, a 2 year old Elitegroup something or other, AMD Duron,
and
made a BSD server out of that.  Also, stable as a rock.

I have to conclude that these days even the cheapest motherboards are
far better than the most expensive boards were 10 years ago.

Ted

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RE: Is FreeBSD simple enough for Novices, Will FreeBSD accept Office 98 + Publisher?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin Kinsey
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 9:57 AM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> Cc: freebsd-questions
> Subject: Re: Is FreeBSD simple enough for Novices, Will FreeBSD accept
> Office 98 + Publisher?
>
>
> Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> >
> > When I wrote my book Addison Wesley used Quark internally, but required
> > me to submit my manuscript -on paper-.  They then retyped it, sent me
> > the proofs (which had enormous numbers of typos in them) I corrected and
> > sent back.
> >
> > I asked them if I gave them the manuscript in Quark source files if they
> > would take that, (because I had access to a pirated copy of Quark and
> > figured I would import what I had written my book in) and they would
> > not.  They required a paper manuscript.
> >
> > Thus, use whatever you want to write your book - if your going to get it
> > published most likely your publisher will not be using what your using.
>
> :-D
>
> --- a good insight.  "Team written" books with some of today's publishers
> are even worse --- some friends of mine had a tome published with plenty
> of errors, including Microsoft Word "auto-corrections" inside their code
> blocks (I will grant that the publisher wasn't quite Addison-Wesley in
> stature).
>
> It's pretty easy to understand why many people choose to publish their
> work privately these days.
>

:-)

Actually, that's not it.  Excuse my ranting but there's several bad things
driving private publishing these days.

The publishers got the scent of blood with the Harry Potter books, in
some ways those books ruined the book publishing industry.  Before, nobody
thought a mere book could garner that kind of money.  Today, they all think
this and so are all looking for the next Harry Potter series.  As a result
the publishing companies are buying manuscripts that they think are going to
be big sellers based on what their marketing people think is selling, and
not caring if the work is crap or not.  Good work that would likely have a
niche market is being turned down, crappy work that they think is widely
appealing is being published.

And for example my book - well, it did make money.  But, not a lot of
it.  20 years ago, all the publishing houses wanted was for a book to
make money, they didn't care if it was a lot of money as long as it made
some.  They made their living off of a huge stable of books, all not
making a lot of money, but making some.  But, today, it's not good enough
for a book to make some money, it has to make a phenominal amount of
money.

That's not to say that AW treated me badly, quite the contrary.  But,
once my book had it's run, and they had a reading on what they could
make off of the FreeBSD market, they had no further interest in any
more FreeBSD books.  At least, for then.  (that was 7 years ago, of
course)  No doubt if I were to decide to write a Linux book
they would probably be very interested.  Of course, such a book would
have to be aimed at desktop users, and that's not my interest area.

I suspect that eventually when another decade has gone by and we don't
see another Harry Potter series rearing it's head out of the unknown
muck, the publishing houses will get back to the work of just looking
for good works for large and small markets, developing up and coming
authors, and all the stuff they used to do B.H.P.  I might put my foot
back into the water at that time, as well.

Ted

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RE: How to find HorizSync / VertRefresh rates?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Victor Engmark
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 2:06 AM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> Cc: FreeBSD Questions
> Subject: Re: How to find HorizSync / VertRefresh rates?
>
>
> On 5/2/07, Ted Mittelstaedt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I feel the need to remind folks that the concept of refresh rates is
> > completely meaningless with LCD panels.  Flatpanels do not have a single
> > scan gun that draws lines at a specific time and rate of speed across a
> > phosphor.
>
>
> Well, the rates are both related to the video card, not the
> display. I'm not
> sure how the card feeds the image to an LCD display, but I guess
> that would
> depend on the enforced horizontal sync and vertical refresh rates.

If your using a VGA connection then yes it does depend on the refresh
rates.  But the refresh rate has no meaning after the signal is processed
by the LCD panel's computer.

> In any
> case, it's useful to have these rates if I should ever have the need to
> attach the card to an external CRT display.
>
> The computer in the LCD panel takes the video input at a range of refresh
> > rates, and converts it to a bitmapped image that is fed to the display
> > crystals.  You can use whatever horizontal and vertical refresh rates
> > you want, as long as they are in the table that the LCD panel's computer
> > can decode, the resulting output is the same.
>
>
> Even though LCD displays don't flicker, it's useful to set the refresh as
> high as the panel is able to display, to get smooth transitions.
>

Try different rates, I think you will find that once you get above 70 Hz
you won't be able to see any difference.

> I also will remind people that the pixel counts as resolution on
> flatpanels
> > also have no meaning.  A flat panel has a fixed natural resolution.  Any
> > other resolution that you feed to it is either dithered up or dithered
> > down to match the actual resolution by the display computer in the flat
> > panel.
> >
>
> I'm well aware of that, but I would still like my video card and screen to
> perform to the best of their abilities, in order to display the biggest
> amount of data per second possible, without frying. Anything else
> is a waste
> of resources.
>

I think you misunderstand.  If an LCD panel has a resolution of 1024x768 and
you feed it 1280x1024, even though the panel can handle it, you still only
get 1024x768 on the panel.  In fact, you get worse because all of the
sharp lines are blurred by the dithering down of 1280x1024 to 1024x768.

And the human eye cannot see distinct pictures at refresh rates beyond about
30-40 frames per second.  You may see flicker, but the human eye cannot even
distinguish that, much beyond 65-70Hz.

Speeding things up is equivalent to putting a blue fan with pretty lights
that light up when it runs, inside a computer power supply.  You can't
see the difference, but I guess spending the extra money or just knowing
it's there, is comfort food.

What you really want in an LCD panel is a panel with the highest actual
resolution
as possible, and ignore the refresh rate.  But that's expensive.  Which is
why so many people have crappy LCD panels.

It never ceases to amaze me that people will take a perfectly good, sharp,
CRT monitor that can do 1600 x 1400 or some such and toss it out and replace
it with an LCD panel that is the same diagonal size but cannot do better
than
1024x768, and think they have a better display.

I suspect your confusing things like font size with screen resolution which
is a
common thing for people to do.

Ted

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RE: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: Bart Silverstrim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 12:08 PM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> Cc: John Levine; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam
>
>
> You're making it sound as if greylisting is a terrible idea

NO. I'm making it sound like greylisting is NOT the world's answer to
stopping spam.  It's NOT a miracle cure, it is NOT the last, best hope
for peace.

I'm making it sound like greylisting is just one more tool in the box
to stop spam - not espically better than many other tools, it has it's
good points and it's bad points, as do all the other tools.

Obviously you have a severe problem with this.  All I can say to that
is if you put all your spamfighting eggs in one basket, your foolish.

> because
> once your failure system won't notify you for some unspecified period
> of time.

Give it a rest.  That is one wart on greylisting.  There are others.  Just
as there are warts on all other spamfighting tools.

  I, and others most likely, are saying that it wouldn't take
> much for you to get it working just fine whether the cell carrier
> used it or not.  And even then, you haven't made a case that ISPs or
> businesses still couldn't use it

Right, because it was never my intention to make a case for NOT using it.

It was my original intention to show that greylisting worked because it
allows the blacklists time to get the submitter in their lists, not because
all spammers cannot tolerate greylisting delays because they are sending
spam so fast.  Which is what one of the OP's claimed was how greylisting
worked.

I then added to this later on the intention to show that depending on
greylisting alone will not work in the long haul, because it is easy
to program around it.  Which the spammers will do once a majority of sites
use greylisting, and indeed, many spammers are already starting to do
right now.

...the inconvenience you point out
> still could be worked around simply by doing what I suggested before,
> registering legit by periodically sending a quick message, and if you
> get "charged" for a short short message like that, then you probably
> need a new cell plan if that is pushing you over your free time, or
> start having your employer compensate you for using your personal
> equipment for business use.
>

yah yah yah whatever.  As I said before, you are so lost and hung up on
the monitoring example that you have completely misinterpreted everything
that I've said.  The point was not to get sidetracked into this stupid
monitoring example discussion.  The point was to discuss the merits and
problems of greylisting.

I frankly think that you are so in love with greylisting that you are
deliberately trying to AVOID a discussion of it's merits - because you
cannot bear to hear anything bad about it.

In summary, I run several busy mailservers, all that use greylisting.  I
have used greylisting for quite a while.  You can believe that or not.
I am stating that categorically, greylisting at the current time is
a quick hack, that in the majority of cases works, but it's effectiveness
has already started down the road to rapid decline, and every month I
am seeing more and more spam go right past it and get tagged by spamassassin
as being from a blacklisted spam emitter.  That DOES NOT MEAN that you
should NOT use it - no more than it means you should not use things like
SPF records as counters in a point-based spamfiltering system - it merely
means that it's getting less effective every day.

Ted

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RE: How to find HorizSync / VertRefresh rates?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Victor Engmark
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 12:28 AM
> To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey
> Cc: FreeBSD Questions
> Subject: Re: How to find HorizSync / VertRefresh rates?
>
>
> On 5/1/07, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On Monday, 30 April 2007 at 11:02:54 +0200, Victor Engmark wrote:
> > > I'm trying to create a pristine xorg.conf, but I've been unable to
> > > find proper values for HorizSync and VertRefresh for my Dell Latitude
> > > D610.
> > >
> > > I've tried the values presented in MonitorsDB
> > >
>  ?view=markup
> > >
> > > for "Dell 1400x1050 Laptop Display Panel", which are HorizSync
> > > 31.5-90.0 and VertRefresh 59.0-75.0, but I get a warning in
> > > /var/log/Xorg.0.log for both of them saying they are "not within DDC
> > > ranges."
> > >
> > > I've tried looking around the Dell web pages, but I haven't found any
> > > pages mentioning these parameters (not too surprising, really).
> > >
> > > I've tried to leave these settings out, but even then I get a warning:
> > > (WW) I810(0): config file hsync range 60-66.3158kHz not
> within DDC hsync
> > > ranges.
> > >
> > > I'm wondering if this has anything to do with the other warnings I get
> > > during startup:
> > > (WW) I810(0): Bad V_BIOS checksum
> > > and
> > > (WW) I810(0): Extended BIOS function 0x5f05 failed.
> >
> > This, along with the follow-ups, reminds me of a problem I had with a
> > Dell Inspiron 5100 some years ago.  In that case, X didn't map the
> > video BIOS correctly, and so it wasn't able to read the information
> > from the BIOS.  The information includes things like the panel
> > geometry, which in my case was being reported as 65535x65535 pixels.
> > In your case we have:
> >
> > >  # From Xorg.0.log
> > >  DisplaySize  286 214
> >
> > That's clearly wrong too.
>
>
> It's equal to the values in the
> documentation atd610/en/ug_en/specs.htm>,
> rounded off to integers.
>

I feel the need to remind folks that the concept of refresh rates is
completely meaningless with LCD panels.  Flatpanels do not have a single
scan gun that draws lines at a specific time and rate of speed across a
phosphor.

The computer in the LCD panel takes the video input at a range of refresh
rates, and converts it to a bitmapped image that is fed to the display
crystals.  You can use whatever horizontal and vertical refresh rates
you want, as long as they are in the table that the LCD panel's computer
can decode, the resulting output is the same.

I also will remind people that the pixel counts as resolution on flatpanels
also have no meaning.  A flat panel has a fixed natural resolution.  Any
other resolution that you feed to it is either dithered up or dithered
down to match the actual resolution by the display computer in the flat
panel.

Ted

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RE: A good quiet power supply?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Hi Bill,

  My $0.02 on this is that it is cheaper to just buy an off-the-shelf
power supply and open it up and replace the fan with a quieter one.  That
same site sells these:

http://www.xoxide.com/nmbsil80fan.html

22dba

or these:

http://www.xoxide.com/enermax-marathon-enlobal-fan-80mm.html

14dba

That same site also sells vibration dampers which help as well:

http://www.xoxide.com/vibdampener.html

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> Bill-Schoolcraft
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 10:42 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: A good quiet power supply?
> 
> 
> Hello Family,
> 
> Just got a new PC at home, it's noisy and was wondering if 
> anyone can share some experience here.  I just read about 
> a "fanless" power-supply and then realized I needed some input.
> 
> http://www.xoxide.com/fanlesspsu.html
> 
> TIA
> 
> -- 
>Bill Schoolcraft <*> http://wiliweld.com
> 
> "Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday,
>  lying in hospitals dying of nothing."
>  -- Redd Foxx
> 
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> 
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RE: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kenny Dail
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 8:18 PM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam
>
>
> > > I'm monitoring systems at the ISP I work at.  No, it is not life or
> > > death
> > > if a feed goes down for 3 hours and a bunch of people cannot download
> > > their daily freebsd-questions mailing list fix.  At least, I don't
> > > think
> > > so.  But they do.  And as their money that buys the ISP's product puts
> > > the bread on my table, I have to do what they want.  And they want
> > > instant
> > > response if there is a problem in the ISP's systems.  That won't
> > > happen if
> > > the monitoring system's e-mails that get sent out when there is a
> > > problem
> > > lie around in a mail queue for an hour waiting for a greylist at the
> > > cell company to let the messages through.
> I understand where you are coming from on this, of course email is not
> the right medium to use for notifying of email failures.

Obviously.

> We built an SMS
> gateway.

That is one way to do it, there are others.  In our case, since we have
a number of mailservers, we simply pair them up to monitor each other
specifically for mail failures.

Ted

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RE: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: John Levine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 6:31 AM
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam
>
>
> >> Email is not an instant messaging system, no matter how much you want
> >> it to be one.
> >
> >Cell phone companies won't take pages any other way no matter
> how much you
> >want them to.
>
> This might be a good time to learn about outfits like clickatell.com
> that provide SMS gateway service.  They charge about 10 cents a
> message.
>

Your still not getting the point.  The monitoring system speaks
e-mail.  If it speaks e-mail to the cell carrier and the cell carrier
starts greylisting it is screwed.  If it speaks e-mail to the SMS
gateway service and the gateway service starts greylisting it is
still screwed.

Instead of "monitoring system" substitute one of many, many, many
other embedded devices that use e-mail to send notifications.  For
example, print servers, UPSes, ethernet-to-ethernet hardware routers,
etc.

I don't understand why people are focusing on trying to redesign
the monitoring system I'm using.  Don't you have any imagination
at all?  The point was that there are legitimate situations where
the delays introduced by greylisting are a problem.  I used the
monitoring system as an example to make it easy to grasp the
point.  If it would help, I'll stop talking about it and use another
example.

Sure, it's possible to modify the greylist to whitelist.  That
implies that the sender knows greylisting is happening, knows
how to get the recipient to whitelist, it implies the recipient
is even willing to whitelist,  etc.

Imagine a cell company that puts in greylisting being deluged by
30% of their million-plus userbase requesting to be whitelisted
for just the reason I cited.  Do you think it would be realistic
for the cell company to do this?

Sure it's also possible to do something like reconfigure the monitoring
system to just call a page-only number that goes to a pager and
use touch tones to put in a message, then to wear a pager instead of
the cell phone.  There are workarounds to the monitoring scenario
I cited.  That does not prove there are workarounds to every one
of these kinds of scenarios.

Ted

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RE: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: Bart Silverstrim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 3:40 AM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> Cc: Eric Crist; Grant Peel; Christopher Hilton;
> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 29, 2007, at 5:00 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Bart Silverstrim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 5:01 PM
> >> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> >> Cc: Eric Crist; Grant Peel; Christopher Hilton;
> >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> >> Subject: Re: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Apr 28, 2007, at 5:25 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> -Original Message-
> >>>> From: Bart Silverstrim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 1:58 PM
> >>>> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> >>>> Cc: Christopher Hilton; Grant Peel; Eric Crist;
> >>>> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> >>>> Subject: Re: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Apr 26, 2007, at 12:15 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> There are legitimate technical reasons that someone may want their
> >>>>> mail
> >>>>> to not be greylisted.  For example, my cell phone's e-mail
> >>>>> address is
> >>>>> in our monitoring scripts to page me in the event of a server
> >>>>> failure.
> >>>>> I would be pretty pissed off if Sprint suddenly started
> >>>>> greylisting.  It
> >>>>> isn't just dumb-ass users making stupid political decisions to
> >>>>> reject
> >>>>> it, although in your case it probably was.
> >>>>
> >>>> If it is a legitimate mail server, it would be promoted to the  
> >>>> auto-
> >>>> whitelist.  Not all mail is constantly greylisted by most  
> >>>> intelligent
> >>>> greylist systems.  Only the first few messages would be delayed,
> >>>> until it is established as legitimate.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> That won't work in my case since I generally only have a failure
> >>> that causes
> >>> a problem which results in paging about once every 3 months or so.
> >>> By the
> >>>  time the pages got through the
> >>> greylist it would be at least an hour later after the system had  
> >>> gone
> >>> down.  That isn't acceptable for a notification system.
> >>
> >> What?  What do you mean, a failure that causes a problem which
> >> results in paging once every 3 months?
> >>
> >> If your mail server tries to contact another mail server and it can't
> >> reach it, you're saying your mail server doesn't retry for an hour?
> >>
> >
> > If the monitoring system notices something down, I have to know about
> > it within a few minutes.  I cannot wait for the mailserver that  
> > sends the
> > page out to retry sending the page to the cell carrier's mailserver
> > in an hour.
> 
> Ted, usually I find your posts intelligent and food for thought, but  
> I almost think you're doing this on purpose now.
> 

No, the problem is you haven't understood the point I was making.

> When you're setting it up, you would set up manually to have your own  
> system whitelisted.

The system that would cause problems if it ran
greylisting is not MY system.  It's the mailserver owned by the cellular
company that I am sending to.   If they went and installed greylisting
it is highly unlikely I could get them to whitelist me.  (have you
ever, for example, tried to get a system off AOL's internal blacklist?)

> I would assume that if you really don't own your  
> own domain/mail system, you still would have a provider that would  
> whitelist *themselves* so you could send the email from your provider  
> to yourself.  If you're using SMS, I would personally either tell my  
> phone provider about it or send a few messages myself to have it  
> whitelist the entry and then periodically test the system, since  
> really you should be testing such systems periodically anyway (and  
> make sure the listing is still working).
> 
> You said yourself you use greylis

RE: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: Bart Silverstrim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 5:05 PM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> Cc: Christopher Hilton; User Questions
> Subject: Re: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam
> 
> 
> >
> > Both of those are assumptions your making that are just not true  
> > anymore.
> > Spammers are adapting to greylisting.  I've been running it for at
> > least 2 years now and every month more and more spam is making it
> > past the greylist and getting caught by spamassassin.  As I mentioned
> > previously, it does not take a lot of programming effort to do it.
> 
> Sure they're adapting. They're also adapting to Spamassassin.

That's a bit different.  It is trivial to adapt to greylisting.  It is
not trivial to adapt to spamassassin, particularly if they have the
learner turned on.

> The  
> fact that it doesn't take a lot of programming effort isn't the  
> reason,

Yes, it is actually.  Because for the simple reason that the small
amount of programming effort required makes it possible to countermand
greylisting AT ALL.

It isn't possible, I think, for a spammer to programmically get through
a SA setup with the learner turned on, that has a dictionary that
has been built up through both ham and spam submissions.  The main
reason spammers do get past that has more to do with the difficult of
getting normal users to properly feed the learner.  But the problem from
the spammers point of view is that in the Internet, 10 different SA sites
could have 10 different rules.  But 10 different greylist sites will all
act the same, so if your going to put effort into countering the filters,
you would be smarter to counter greylisting first.

> though, since it doesn't take a lot of effort to NOT TOP POST  
> yet people continue to do so.
> 
> > When I first setup greylisting the results were literally spectacular.
> > Nowadays they are great, but not much beyond that.  All of the  
> > things your
> > saying about greylisting decreasing the load and all that are true,  
> > and
> > just because it's not as effective as it once was doesen't mean you  
> > should
> > not use it.  But, I am not blind to what my eyes are telling me.  In
> > aonther 5 years, greylisting will be like all other spamfilter
> > techniques, effective only against a minority of spam
> 
> And yet there are still people, despite the problem spammers are  
> creating, who think that email is a vital and reliable service upon  
> which to hinge the success or failure of their business relations.
> 


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RE: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: Bart Silverstrim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 5:01 PM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> Cc: Eric Crist; Grant Peel; Christopher Hilton;
> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 28, 2007, at 5:25 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Bart Silverstrim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 1:58 PM
> >> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> >> Cc: Christopher Hilton; Grant Peel; Eric Crist;
> >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> >> Subject: Re: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Apr 26, 2007, at 12:15 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> >>
> >>> There are legitimate technical reasons that someone may want their
> >>> mail
> >>> to not be greylisted.  For example, my cell phone's e-mail  
> >>> address is
> >>> in our monitoring scripts to page me in the event of a server  
> >>> failure.
> >>> I would be pretty pissed off if Sprint suddenly started
> >>> greylisting.  It
> >>> isn't just dumb-ass users making stupid political decisions to  
> >>> reject
> >>> it, although in your case it probably was.
> >>
> >> If it is a legitimate mail server, it would be promoted to the auto-
> >> whitelist.  Not all mail is constantly greylisted by most intelligent
> >> greylist systems.  Only the first few messages would be delayed,
> >> until it is established as legitimate.
> >>
> >
> > That won't work in my case since I generally only have a failure  
> > that causes
> > a problem which results in paging about once every 3 months or so.   
> > By the
> >  time the pages got through the
> > greylist it would be at least an hour later after the system had gone
> > down.  That isn't acceptable for a notification system.
> 
> What?  What do you mean, a failure that causes a problem which  
> results in paging once every 3 months?
> 
> If your mail server tries to contact another mail server and it can't  
> reach it, you're saying your mail server doesn't retry for an hour?
> 

If the monitoring system notices something down, I have to know about
it within a few minutes.  I cannot wait for the mailserver that sends the
page out to retry sending the page to the cell carrier's mailserver
in an hour.

Things go down rarely.  The moonitoring system is not continually sending
out pages to my cell phone every day.  Many times many months will pass
in between the monitoring system sending my cell phone a page.  If the
cell phone company was running greylisting, any whitelist entry for my
monitoring system would be gone by then.

> Even if it does take an hour, the fact that it retried the server on  
> the other side doing the greylisting means it would be whitelisted  
> after a couple mails.

But the whitelist would have expired by the next time there was a problem.

> If you're doing something SO critical that  
> three or four mails delayed an hour, until you're establishes as a  
> legit user, means life or death, you definitely should be doing  
> something that backs up how you communicate with other sites,

I'm monitoring systems at the ISP I work at.  No, it is not life or death
if a feed goes down for 3 hours and a bunch of people cannot download
their daily freebsd-questions mailing list fix.  At least, I don't think
so.  But they do.  And as their money that buys the ISP's product puts
the bread on my table, I have to do what they want.  And they want instant
response if there is a problem in the ISP's systems.  That won't happen if
the monitoring system's e-mails that get sent out when there is a problem
lie around in a mail queue for an hour waiting for a greylist at the
cell company to let the messages through.

Ted
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RE: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: Sam Lawrance [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 2:59 AM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam
> 
> 
> 
> Email is not an instant messaging system, no matter how much you want  
> it to be one.
> 

Cell phone companies won't take pages any other way no matter how much you
want them to.  And as I already have to carry a cell phone, I am not going
to carry a separate pager also.

Ted

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RE: Is FreeBSD simple enough for Novices, Will FreeBSD accept Office 98 + Publisher?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Murray Taylor
> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 7:28 PM
> To: Garrett Cooper; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: RE: Is FreeBSD simple enough for Novices,Will FreeBSD accept
> Office 98 + Publisher?
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> > Garrett Cooper
> > Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2007 4:28 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> > Subject: Re: Is FreeBSD simple enough for Novices, Will
> > FreeBSD accept Office 98 + Publisher?
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >> OpenOffice in OSX still isn't that great either because there
> > >> still isn't a native (Aqua) build.
> > >
> > > I suspect the NeoOffice folks would be surprised to hear that :)
> >
> > Yes >_>.. I mean that the latest and greatest version of OOo isn't
> > available for Aqua native yet. It's going to take another
> > year to port,
> > as someone has claimed already.
> >
> > There was a big leap in terms of functionality from 1.x vs
> > 2.x in OOo,
> > but then again considering that the OP was asking about
> > running Office
> > 98 (:D..), I don't think he'd mind running the 1.x version binaries.
> >
> > -Garrett
>
>
> As the original poster wants to write books  may I suggest that he
> use
> a text editor and then a typesetter combination rather than any form of
> WYSIWYG wordprocessor.
>
> IE use (insert favourite text editor here) then use the LaTeX / Tetex
> port
> to actually properly format the material as a book.
>
> Yes there is a learning curve here, but the end result is all
> over a wordprocessed attempt.
>

When I wrote my book Addison Wesley used Quark internally, but required
me to submit my manuscript -on paper-.  They then retyped it, sent me
the proofs (which had enormous numbers of typos in them) I corrected and
sent back.

I asked them if I gave them the manuscript in Quark source files if they
would take that, (because I had access to a pirated copy of Quark and
figured
I would import what I had written my book in) and they would not.  They
required a paper manuscript.

Thus, use whatever you want to write your book - if your going to get it
published most likely your publisher will not be using what your using.

Ted

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RE: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher
> Hilton
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 2:45 PM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> Cc: User Questions
> Subject: Re: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam
>
>
> Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >> When I scan my maillogs I find that 22% of the hosts that generate a
> >> greylisting entry retry the mail delivery and thus get whitelisted. The
> >> other 78% don't attempt redelivery within the greylisting window.
> >
> > That's probably par.
> >
> > However, the reason your putting so much faith in the delaying,
> is simply
> > that you aren't getting a lot of spam.
> >
> > I have published e-mail addresses.  Without greylisting I got about
> > 1500-2000 mail messages a day to each of them.
> >
> >
>
> Greylisting isn't just about delaying. IIRC greylisting is filtering for
> spam/ham based on behaviour in the message originators MTA. My
> greylister is using two behavioural assumptions:
>
>   Spamming MTA's don't have the capability to queue and retry mail.
> Asking them to queue and retry will cause them to drop the mail on the
> floor thus filtering spam.
>
>   Spamming MTA's don't like to be tarpitted. Stuttering at them and
> sizing the TCP Windows so they must wait will result in them
> disconnecting before they can exchanged mail thus filtering spam.
>

Both of those are assumptions your making that are just not true anymore.
Spammers are adapting to greylisting.  I've been running it for at
least 2 years now and every month more and more spam is making it
past the greylist and getting caught by spamassassin.  As I mentioned
previously, it does not take a lot of programming effort to do it.

When I first setup greylisting the results were literally spectacular.
Nowadays they are great, but not much beyond that.  All of the things your
saying about greylisting decreasing the load and all that are true, and
just because it's not as effective as it once was doesen't mean you should
not use it.  But, I am not blind to what my eyes are telling me.  In
aonther 5 years, greylisting will be like all other spamfilter
techniques, effective only against a minority of spam

Ted

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RE: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: Bart Silverstrim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 1:58 PM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> Cc: Christopher Hilton; Grant Peel; Eric Crist;
> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam
>
>
>
> On Apr 26, 2007, at 12:15 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>
> > There are legitimate technical reasons that someone may want their
> > mail
> > to not be greylisted.  For example, my cell phone's e-mail address is
> > in our monitoring scripts to page me in the event of a server failure.
> > I would be pretty pissed off if Sprint suddenly started
> > greylisting.  It
> > isn't just dumb-ass users making stupid political decisions to reject
> > it, although in your case it probably was.
>
> If it is a legitimate mail server, it would be promoted to the auto-
> whitelist.  Not all mail is constantly greylisted by most intelligent
> greylist systems.  Only the first few messages would be delayed,
> until it is established as legitimate.
>

That won't work in my case since I generally only have a failure that causes
a problem which results in paging about once every 3 months or so.  By the
 time the pages got through the
greylist it would be at least an hour later after the system had gone
down.  That isn't acceptable for a notification system.

Ted

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RE: No SMB/Samba support on Windows Home Editions

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Derek Ragona
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 2:50 PM
> To: L Goodwin; FreeBSD-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: No SMB/Samba support on Windows Home Editions
> 
> 
> At 03:49 PM 4/27/2007, L Goodwin wrote:
> >I've been working feverishly to set up a Samba share
> >on FreeBSD 6.2 server to provide file storage for
> >clients running Windows XP Pro and Windows Vista Home
> >Premium.
> >
> >I just had a long talk with the ISP's tech support,
> >and was told a number of things that I would like to
> >confirm or deny:
> >
> >1) Windows "Home" editions (including XP and Vista)
> >have support for SMB protocol disabled in Active
> >Directory Domain Connections functionality!
> >Is this true?
> 
> Not exactly.  Home edition CANNOT log into a domain or active 
> directory.  If you need that functionality, upgrade to XP Pro.
> 
> 
> >2) The only way to make Samba work for Windows Home
> >editions is to change the Samba server's domain
> >configuration to "peer-to-peer".
> >Is this true? If YES, how do I do that?
> >Could not find reference it in the Official Samba-3
> >HOW TO and Reference Guide.
> 
> I've never done that so am no help.
>

There is a hack for HP home that makes it join a domain.  You can
google for this.  It is a violation of the license agreement, of course.
Not recommended for a business to do this.

The only realistic option here is to run share-level security under
a workgroup style network.  The downside is that there is no centralized
password management.  But, in a smaller network that really doesen't 
matter.
 
> >3) Other options discussed:
> >
> >1) Replace Vista Home with Windows XP Pro (or Vista
> >Pro) or exchange computer for one with a "Pro"
> >edition.
> 
> Vista licenses can be downgraded to XP.  You need to check on which 
> versions can be downgraded to XP Pro.
>

Only the Vista Business versions have downgrade rights to XP Pro.
The Vista Home versions can only downgrade to XP Home.

Additionally, there are no downgrade rights with OEM licenses.
 
> 
> No one I know is jumping to vista until service pack one ships.
> 

One of the Intel VPs during an interview accidentally let it slip
out that Microsoft has scheduled SP1 for Vista for 4th quarter 2007.

Ted
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RE: Wikipedia's perfection (was Re: Discussion of the relativeadvantages/disadvantages of PAE (was Re: Memory >3.5GB not used?))

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 3:11 PM
> To: Bart Silverstrim
> Cc: Paul Schmehl; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Wikipedia's perfection (was Re: Discussion of the
> relativeadvantages/disadvantages of PAE (was Re: Memory >3.5GB not
> used?))
> 
> 
> On 27/04/07, Bart Silverstrim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > We don't devote time and
> > resources into being "renaissance people".
> 
> Human intelligence is hardly limited in that regard.
> While I do not subscribe to the Colin Wilson theory,
> the vast majority of people contain so little information
> it is quite shameful, and the less you learn the harder
> it is to learn.
> 
> These arguments about ethics show how truly shallow
> ethicists bother to think.  Wikipedia is a daycare centre
> which has given out a nearly unlimited number of crayons
> and is now complaining about children drawing on the
> walls.  It is also a fairly plain example of the cliche of the
> inmates running the asylum.  To assign scholarly status
> and impute scholarly ethics on such a nonsensical rubbish
> pile is as silly as taking my arguments here as more than
> the ranting of a deranged keyboard jockey.
> 
> What that purported professor did is no more unethical
> than crapping in somone else's toilet, and to claim other-
> wise is to elevate it to a king's throne.
> 
> Once wikipedia (and its ilk) begin to systematically vet
> contributors for expertise and seriously review articles
> against fact we can nail them to the wall for political bias.
> 

Wikipedia won't, mainly because there's another competing web
encyclopedia out there that is taking this approach.

However, you sound like you have a case of sour grapes, and you
definitely don't sound like you have read much on Wikipedia.

The true value of Wikipedia is that it can deal with controversial
subjects.  Take abortion, for example.  Reading
about it in a "peer reviewed" encyclopedia, if you didn't know
dick about it, you would wonder what all the controversy was about -
because those entries are completely stripped out of all loaded
phrases and emotion.

The same goes with the 2000 US Presidential election.  A huge number
of people, possibly the majority in the country, believe that there
were dirty tricks and that the election was stolen.  But, you won't
get any sense of that at all reading about it in the Encyclopedia
Britannica.

I couldn't read the online entries about either of those topics in
a peer-reviewed encyclopedia and even end up knowing where to go to
find each sides wacko-rediculous statements, and without reading any
of that stuff there's no way anyone can understand how unsolvable
that issues like that are.

Wikipedia is one of the best starting platforms out there on subjects.
Naturally, you don't take it as canonical.  But, it is going to suggest
avenues of research that the official stuff won't.  For example, look
up "operation freakout" and "operation snow white" in Wikipedia, and
look them up in an official encyclopedia.  Quite an amazing difference,
there.

Ted
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RE: Wikipedia's perfection (was Re: Discussion of therelative advantages/disadvantages of PAE (was Re: Memory>3.5GB not used?))

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bart
> Silverstrim
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 7:06 AM
> To: Paul Schmehl
> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Wikipedia's perfection (was Re: Discussion of therelative
> advantages/disadvantages of PAE (was Re: Memory>3.5GB not used?))
>
>
>
> On Apr 25, 2007, at 3:51 PM, Paul Schmehl wrote:
>
> > --On Wednesday, April 25, 2007 15:29:04 -0400 Thomas Dickey
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 01:15:03PM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote:
> >>> No kidding.  That professor should have his Wikipedia account
> >>> banned,
> >>> and the head of his department should be informed of his
> >>> vandalism.  I
> >>> don't suppose you know the name of his Wikipedia account, or his
> >>> legal
> >>> name. . . .
> >>
> >> yawn.  That sort of research has been going on for years.
> >>
> >> Less interesting is the sort of trash emitted by people who don't
> >> like
> >> knowing that whatever they've read on a webpage might not be
> >> completely
> >> accurate, and that they might have to do some of their own thinking.
> >>
> >> regards.
> >
> > At one time I had high hopes that the internet would usher in a new
> > era of increased knowledge and reduced gullibility.  Instead it
> > seems to have simply hastened the arrival to the wrong conclusions.
>
> There are opportunities for increased knowledge.  Gullibility,
> though, is part of our human nature.
>
> How many of you delve four levels deep when looking for a quick
> reference on something that, in the long run, you care little about?

I try to avoid stuff I don't care about.

> If you're not a mechanic or car enthusiast, do you look into anything
> and everything on how a clutch works, or every variation of four
> wheel drive implementations?  Probably not.

Yes, but if your driving a car you should.  There's a lot of stuff people
should be doing these days that they aren't doing.  I guess people's mothers
aren't telling their kids to eat their vegetables anymore.

> We don't devote time and
> resources into being "renaissance people".

Most of us don't.  And the reasons why are complex, but what it essentially
boils down to is that there's a lot of vested interests out there that
don't want the majority of people to be renaissance people and so they
have been on a campaign for many years to discourage it, and a lot of
people are stupid and have fallen for that.

> For me, I look up the
> answer, if it sounds reasonable, I go with it unless someone else
> points out a deficiency in the answer.  I need a quick and dirty
> answer to move on to things I *do* care about.
>

Why do you need a quick and dirty answer for stuff you admittedly don't
care about?

> The problem is that people will accept an answer whether it makes
> sense or not.  We had someone once convinced that a "Laser Car Wash"
> cleaned cars by shooting small lasers at the car to clean it.  It was
> something so far left field of what they're interested in and
> knowledgeable about that they just accepted the answer, even though
> there's no way such a system would be affordable (or safe enough) to
> use as a car washing tool.
>

Damn, there goes those patent plans...

> Then again, there are those that do this intentionally, because
> spreading misinformation is in their best interest and they profit
> from it.  Even schools profit, not necessarily monetarily, by keeping
> students from questioning what they are taught.

Yes, that is true.  But it's important to keep in mind that while
schools profit from this, many teachers don't - and therefore buck
the pressure to churn out unquestioning students.

Ted

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RE: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: Christopher Sean Hilton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 9:05 AM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt; User Questions
> Subject: Re: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam
>
>
> Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>
> [snip...]
>
> >> Greylisting works because many, and I'd like to say most, spam programs
> >> never retry message delivery.
> >
> > Actually, no.  Greylisting works because it delays the spam injector
> > long enough that the injector will get blacklisted by the time that the
> > greylist opens the door for the mail to come in.  Greylisting alone
> > by itself is getting less and less effective every day.
> Spammers are now
> > starting to setup spam injectors to retry.  If you think about it, it is
> > very easy to program.  Simply create a list of victims, iterate through
> > the list once, deleting all the victims that accept, then wait several
> > hours and iterate through the list again.  It didn't take a
> rocket scientist
> > to figure that one out.
> >
> > Since SA has a lot of the major blacklist servers as score-feeders, the
> > spam that gets past the greylist just gets tagged by SA.
> >
>
> When I scan my maillogs I find that 22% of the hosts that generate a
> greylisting entry retry the mail delivery and thus get whitelisted. The
> other 78% don't attempt redelivery within the greylisting window.

That's probably par.

However, the reason your putting so much faith in the delaying, is simply
that you aren't getting a lot of spam.

I have published e-mail addresses.  Without greylisting I got about
1500-2000 mail messages a day to each of them.

With greylisting alone that drops down to about 400-500.

The thing is, that spam is a numbers game.  Someone who is only getting
for example 50-100 spams a day to their mailbox is going to think
greylisting is virtually 100% effective, simply because when they
institute it, their spam goes from 50-100 down to 1-5 spams.  So they
are going to probably conclude that someone getting ten times the
amount of spam as them will have their spam drop down to the same 1-5
after greylisting.  But, spammers are perfectly willing to send 1000
spams to a single mailbox if they think that doing so will get 1 spam
past the filters on that box.

I do have customers with -unpublished- e-mail addresses that are
perfectly satisfied with greylisting alone - simply because they
don't get a lot of spam in the first place.  But, that's like saying
that injecting a can of stop-leak into a leaking tire is a fix for it.
Stop-leak will reduce the rate that air leaks out down to an undetectable
amount if the initial leak was small, but the tire still is leaking.

Ted

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RE: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher
> Hilton
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 3:25 PM
> To: Grant Peel
> Cc: Eric Crist; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Greylisting -- Was: Anti Spam
>
>
> Just my $0.02. Have you considered adding greylisting. I find the
> combination of greylisting and Spamassassin with the SA's bayes filter
> completely handles my spam problem. On my primary MX I use spamd on
> OpenBSD and on my secondary MX I use spamd on FreeBSD. As a very
> informal method of measurement my Inbox.spam folder, held an average of
> 400 messages per day in October before I started using spamd. It
> currently averages about 80 messages per day.
>
> If you don't know about greylisting it works as follows. A greylister
> monitors port 25 for inbound mail connections. When a server connects to
> this port to exchange mail the greylister predetermines the response
> based on whether or not this server has exchanged mail in the recent
> past. If it has it's allowed to exchange mail again and the server's
> timestamp is updated. If the server has not exchanged mail in the recent
> past the greylister responds: "45x - I'm too busy to talk to you right
> now. Please try to deliver this mail later". It then puts the server and
> information about the mail being delivered onto a list. If the same
> server tries the same message later it passes and the greylister
> promotes the server onto it's list of okay mail servers (mail servers
> that it has exchanged mail with in the recent past).
>
> Greylisting works because many, and I'd like to say most, spam programs
> never retry message delivery.

Actually, no.  Greylisting works because it delays the spam injector
long enough that the injector will get blacklisted by the time that the
greylist opens the door for the mail to come in.  Greylisting alone
by itself is getting less and less effective every day.  Spammers are now
starting to setup spam injectors to retry.  If you think about it, it is
very easy to program.  Simply create a list of victims, iterate through
the list once, deleting all the victims that accept, then wait several
hours and iterate through the list again.  It didn't take a rocket scientist
to figure that one out.

Since SA has a lot of the major blacklist servers as score-feeders, the
spam that gets past the greylist just gets tagged by SA.

> The best thing about greylisting is that
> combines well with filters like SA by reducing the amount of mail that
> they have to see. In my case something like 80% of the mail that
> Spamassassin used to process just never gets past the greylister today.
>
> The downsides to greylisting is that it delays the first message from a
> legitimate mailserver. In the most common case the incurred delay will
> be between 30 minutes and an hour. This assumes that then sending mail
> server retries queued mails every half hour or so. In an extreme case
> the delay may be longer. If the mail sender has a cluster for delivering
> outbound mails and that cluster features shared message storage and
> several processing units to handle the smtp transfer then the greylister
> will trap that message until the same server attempts redelivery. This
> is a problem with mail coming from very large internet companies like
> Google or AOL or very distributed corporations like General Electric,
> Unilever or United Technologies.
>

That is why the greylist milter (that you use for sendmail) has an exception
list.  There are not many large senders that do this and it is easy enough
to figure out who they are.

> Since you are in an ISP environment greylisting may not be something
> that you can do. I was extremely surprised when a client told me that
> the 1 hr delay in receiving mail from new and infrequent mail servers
> was too much to pay to stop the spam coming into his mailbox.

That should not be a problem.  The current greylist milter port allows
you to define clients email addresses like this as an exception that won't
get the benefits of the greylist, while allowing everyone else on the server
to
continue to enjoy it.

> I don't
> claim to know the political layer as much as I do the technical one.
>

There are legitimate technical reasons that someone may want their mail
to not be greylisted.  For example, my cell phone's e-mail address is
in our monitoring scripts to page me in the event of a server failure.
I would be pretty pissed off if Sprint suddenly started greylisting.  It
isn't just dumb-ass users making stupid political decisions to reject
it, although in your case it probably was.

Ted

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RE: Wikipedia's perfection (was Re: Discussion of the relative advantages/disadvantages of PAE (was Re: Memory >3.5GB not used?))

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Svein Halvor
> Halvorsen
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 7:00 AM
> To: Lee Capps
> Cc: Thomas Dickey; Bill Moran; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Wikipedia's perfection (was Re: Discussion of the relative
> advantages/disadvantages of PAE (was Re: Memory >3.5GB not used?))
>
>
> Bill Moran wrote:
> >> A friend of mine going for his Dr. at CMU (Patrick Wagstrom: GNOME guy)
> >> describes an exercise where a professor intentionally injected false
> >> information into Wikipedia, then gave his students a research
>
>
> And also: Where is this professor's ethics? Does he also misinform the
> students in class, only to later accuse them of not verifying the facts?
>   And did he even think about the fact that others may have read his
> misinformation? Why does this professor think that his agenda is more
> important than Wikipedia's? Did he later correct the articles?
>
> I hope this professor got some sort of reaction from his University due
> to his unethical attitude towards openness, knowledge and science.
>

I'm afraid I have to agree.  The Prof was as lazy as his students.  The
world abounds in misinformation, it doesen't take a lot of effort to find
it.  The prof could have spent the hour he spent forging info in Wikipedia,
finding already forged misinformation and having his students research that.
He could have started at the Scientology website, for example, then moved
on to PETA and the NRA.

Ted

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RE: kqemu slower than qemu

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

what do they say on the qemu mailing list?

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of RW
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 4:26 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: kqemu slower than qemu
> 
> 
> I've been playing with Windows 98SE on qemu on FreeBSD 6.2 i386. It's
> an AMD 64 cpu, but everything is 32-bit. I'm running qemu without any
> command-line options.
> 
> 
> If I load the kqemu kernel module, qemu runs significantly slower than
> without the module. Any idea what's going wrong? 
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RE: Help needed with server setup at work

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rico Secada
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 10:48 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Help needed with server setup at work
> 
> 
> Hi.
> 
> At work we have a bunch of NFS servers. The servers provide the 
> home directories for all the employees client machines. 
> 
> Most of the employees mount their home dirs manually, but some 
> are mounted using scripts. Employee John knows he belongs to NFS 
> server 1, and emplyoee Britney knows she belongs to NFS server 3 
> and so on.
> 
> Now due to new conditions 

Without saying what these new conditions are, you aren't giving much
that anyone can give advice on.

> I have to set up a new system from 
> which ALL employees are able to mount their home directories from 
> their homes (where they live). Since I only have one IP address 
> at my disposal, I need to set up some kind of union system in 
> which all home directories apear as they live on just one server. 
> Besides that I have to figure out what kind of security I need to 
> use. I have been thinking about AFS.
> 
> About the union thing I first thought of somehow union mouting 
> all the different home directories on a single machine which then 
> serves as the access point, but I am affraid if that particular 
> machine crashes, then no one can get to their files. 
>

Your going about it in exactly the wrong way and in a very insecure
manner, in my opinion.

If you have a situation going where the building that all these employees
are working in that contains them, their workstations, and their
servers, is going to be vacated, such as a kind of virtual company
scenario, then ASSUMING that the employees ALL have high-speed
connectivity (DSL, Cable, or whatever) of at least a megabit,
then the safest and most trouble-free way of doing it is to have
ALL employees setup with their ISP's to have static IP addresses,
amd then put hardware VPN firewalls at each employee's home and
setup dedicated lan2lan VPNs that are permanently up all of the
time.  Linksys sells a very nice VPN firewall, the RV042, that is
fantastic for this job.  This will allow you to manage all employee
computers just as if they were all in the now-missing building.
This is particularly important as you can install patches, monitor
for intrusion attempts, etc.  It also moves the ickyness of the
VPN client software away from the employees computer, simplifying
that system.  At the central hub where all the servers remain, you
can easily setup a firewall that only allows VPNs in from the
designated remote IP addresses.

If however the need is for only periodic access, then investigate
a remote control solution.  I would recommend setting up a bastion
host that is on your single public IP address, and a VNC server
on it.  Employees can use one of many VNC clients (there's even
one for palm OS I belive) and go from their homes to the bastion
host, then from the bastion host, xterm to their desktop systems.

Putting a union NFS server up is just asking for trouble, particularly
if you aren't restricting access to it via IP address.

Ted
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RE: postfix question

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Remember,

UNIXes and suchlike use a single IP address route table.

Your machine isn't trying to establish a connection to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

It is trying to establish a connection to IP address
x.y.z.a

Machines don't speak domainese.  They translate
the human-friendly stuff like domain names and such into
IP addresses.

Once the system resolves the recipient e-mail address
into a destination IP address, the choice of interface that
it goes out on is entirely controlled by the route table.
And due to the single route table in the system, that
is going to be the interface that reaches your default gateway.

Even if this box was a router, like a Cisco that supports
route maps that allow you to bypass the single route table,
since the mail is originating from the system, it would always
follow the same map anyway.

You need 2 mailservers to do what you want.

Ted

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gerard
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 3:38 AM
> To: User Questions
> Subject: Re: postfix question
> 
> 
> On Wednesday April 25, 2007 at 03:27:48 (AM) n j wrote:
> 
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > does anybody know is it possible with Postfix to "route" e-mail based
> > on either the inet interface message came from or the sender of a
> > message? I'm using Postfix v.2.3.8 on a multihomed machine and have
> > two smtpd's defined in master.cf. What I would like is that mail
> > submitted through smtpd that is listening on A.B.C.D goes out through
> > the smtp client that binds to A.B.C.D and the rest of the mail go
> > through the other smtp client. The problem as I see it is that, once
> > messages arrive in the queue, it becomes irrelevant where they came
> > from and the only "routing" that is available is recipient-based.
> > 
> > Thanks for any suggestions!
> 
> You would probably get better assistance if you asked this question on
> the Postfix forum.
> 
> -- 
> Gerard
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RE: atacontrol rebuild on non-identical disks

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

I didn't see a response and this is an old one, you probably
fixed it by now.  You will need to dd the old disk to a new
one then get an identical to the new one and raid them.  Of
course if the new one is larger you will still have the
existing smaller partition table.

If it was me I would build a new server and ship it UPS ground
out there.  Your existing disk is probably about ready to fail too,
and both disks probably died due to overheating caused by one
or more fan failures, and if your power supply fan gets choked with
dust, it's a goner then the supply will burn up.  I would guess
the inside of that server is pretty filthy about now.

Ted

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Justin Sullivan
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 6:16 PM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: atacontrol rebuild on non-identical disks


We have a (very) remote FreeBSD 5.5-RELEASE system running on Asus RS120
hardware and historically configured with 2 identical SATA drives using
atacontrol RAID1 and the system installed on ar0.

One of the drives has died, however no identical replacement drive could
be easily sourced at the remote location.

So, attempting to get things back to normal RAID1 operation as quickly as
possible we have tried a same size but non-identical drive and attempted
an atacontrol rebuild. However, this is stuck indefinitely at 0% rebuild
progess.

While I'm aware that some RAID1 mechanisms e.g. CCD seem to insist on
identical disks, the documentation isn't so clear on ATA and I figured it
was worth a try. Does anyone know if it is possible to overcome the
non-identical disk issue and allow ata RAID1 to work again?

I've also considered keeping the current ar0 setup on the single working
disk and setting up a gmirror RAID1 copy on the second disk would work.

Current config info is as follows:

>From atacontrol list:

ATA channel 2:
Master:  ad4  Serial ATA v1.0
ATA channel 3:
Master:  ad6  Serial ATA v1.0

>From the permanently going nowhere rebuild output of atacontrol status:

ar0: ATA RAID1 subdisks: ad4 ad6 status: REBUILDING 0% completed

The WDC WD2000JD on ad4 is the functional system drive and orignial member
of the RAID1 array. ad6 is the new "spare" and presumably is completely
blank still at this stage.

I realise that sourcing an identical drive is probably the right (or at
least easy) answer. The original drives (WDC WD2000JD on ad4) are still
available for purchase, just not anywhere near where the machine lives -
so getting a replacement drive would be a logistically difficult and
time-consuming exercise.

Thanks,
JS
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Re: Virally licensed code in FreeBSD kernel

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

- Original Message - 
From: "Chad Perrin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michel Talon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "FreeBSD Questions" 
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: Virally licensed code in FreeBSD kernel

>
> Between these four sections -- 1.3, 1.6, 1.9, and 3.6 -- it is not 100%
> clear what the intention (in a legal context) of the licensing as it
> applies to a "Larger Work" must be.  Granted, it sure looks like no
> other parts of a "Larger Work" that are not part of the same file as
> code explicitly licensed CDDL would be covered by the CDDL, but a lawyer
> could probably make a pretty good case for the license extending beyond
> the explicitly licensed code in a case where a "Larger Work" is compiled
> as a single binary executable.
>

Chad, that is very unlikely.  If that kind of tack would have worked then
SCO would have tried this when they filed the infringement lawsuit against
Linux.

This argument was also NOT tried when Unix Systems Labs sued University of
California, Berkely over the original FreeBSD source code.

In both those lawsuits, the lawyers didn't attempt to include the -entire-
distribution.  Instead they included the subsections.  In the USL lawsuit it
was the kernel.

The SCO lawsuit is still languishing but the USL lawsuit was settled after
the judge ruled that USL couldn't make a case, and
subsequent to this the lawyers set out a list of specific source files that
infringed.

> In any case, even if the rest of the code in the compiled binary is not
> in fact covered by the CDDL under any circumstances other than explicit
> release under terms of the CDDL, one still has a source distribution
> obligation for part of such a compiled binary according to the law and
> the terms of the CDDL -- the part that is distributed under terms of the
> CDDL, at minimum.  This means that a compiled binary that includes CDDL
> code in its source files carries a source distribution legal obligation,
> period.  We're chipping away at the "freeness" of the software either
> way.
>

Here is the summary problem, and it's the problem with the GPL.  Copyright
law basically says the owner cannot release copyright interest by doing
nothing.  In other words if I compile GPL code into my code and distribute
the result, my code's copyright stays with me, unless I do something
explicit like
signing over copyright ownership to the FSF

With GPL code where the owner has given over copyright to the FSF,
the FSF can simply threaten to sue an infringer if they distribute a
modification
to GPL code then try to use their copyright rights over someone else to
prevent
them further modifying their modification in ways they do not want to
have happen - because the FSF can withdraw
permission they have to use the FSF-owned copyrighted code under GPL.

But in the vast majority of cases of GPL code the developer retains
copyright
on the stuff that is distributed via GPL.  It is not at all clear that if
someone takes
that GPL code and does something in violation of the GPL, and the copyright
holder refuses to do anything about it, that the FSF has any legal standing
to
get involved in a lawsuit.  And if they don't, and nobody else sues, then
the
GPL violator will "get away" with violating the GPL.  And if that happens
enough times, the "threat value"of the GPL will become mostly useless.

Right now the only "threat value" that the GPL carries against infringement
for non-FSF code is that people know that even if the original copyright
holder
didn't sign over copyright rights to the FSF, and doesen't have deep
pockets,
if they infringe GPL code and the copyright holder
doesen't like it, the FSF will come rushing in with their money and lawyers
to
help the copyright holder to sue the infringer.

What people don't know about is what is happening with GPLed code that
the copyright stayed with the owner, was never given over to the FSF, and
the original author loses interest in it, and someone comes along and
infringes it.

There's dozens if not hundreds of GPL projects languishing around up on
Sourceforge that haven't had updates to them for years, have had few
downloads, and little general interest by the community and no interest by
their copyright holders.  If someone came along and stole sections of
the work and put it in a commercial product, do you think the FSF would
sue them, or even publicize it?  I very much doubt it.  The FSF does not
like to advertise failures in the GPL and I believe that there has been a
lot of infringement of GPL code in the past that the FSF has remained
quiet about - simply because they cannot interest the copyright holders in
getting involved in a lawsuit, or transferring copyright ownership to the
FSF.

A software license is only as good as the willingness of the copyright
holder
to back it up.  For FSF copyrighted code, there's a lot of willingness - but
the general public often mistakenly equates
fsf-copyright-owned-code-under-GPL
in the same league as jow-blow-owned-

Re: Looking for GIF library in the ports collection

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Oliver,

  Go here:

http://www.rime.com.au/gd/

install patches to GD and your ready to roll.

Ted

PS the gif patent expired in the US a while ago but the community
has a "scorched earth" approach to it - my guess is no graphics
library author will ever put gif support back in, even when every last
patent everywhere has expired, as a warning to those who might
try similar stunts in the future.



- Original Message - 
From: "Oliver Fromme" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Roland Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: 
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: Looking for GIF library in the ports collection


>
> Roland Smith wrote:
>  > Oliver Fromme wrote:
>  > > I've written a program that generates images.  Currently
>  > > it writes them in PPM format, and I would like to add
>  > > support for GIF.  So I've looked at the ports collection
>  > > for a GIF library and found -- nothing.  The only thing
>  > > that comes close is "libungif", but it doesn't create
>  > > real compressed GIF files ...
>  >
>  > You could use the 'convert' program from the ImageMagick suite. Or use
>  > its library (libMagick) that you can link into your program.
>
> Thanks for the suggestion!
>
> Well, I already considered to fork/exec an external program
> to do the job (although I would use ppmtogif from the netpbm
> port, which seems a lot less heavy-weight than ImageMagick).
> But my program will be used to create a huge number of small
> graphics, so I would prefer to avoid the additional overhead
> of fork/exec.
>
> I also noticed that libMagick is 4 MB ...  I don't really
> want to link that into my 30 KB program just to get GIF
> support.
>
> I've just had a look at sourceforge where libungif is hosted,
> noticing that there also is a "giflib" (without "un") from
> the same author, and it has the same API and same version
> number.  Both libungif and giflib seem to be maintained in
> parallel, but the latter is missing from the FreeBSD ports
> collection.  I think I'm giving that one a try.
>
> Best regards
>Oliver
>
> -- 
> Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M.
> Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606,  Geschäftsfuehrung:
> secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün-
> chen, HRB 125758,  Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart
>
> FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr:  http://www.secnetix.de/bsd
>
> $ dd if=/dev/urandom of=test.pl count=1
> $ file test.pl
> test.pl: perl script text executable
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Re: How to handle forthcoming PR originator e-mail address

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

wait till it changes then post an update to the pr using the webinterface

Ted

- Original Message - 
From: "Dmitry Pryanishnikov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 4:45 AM
Subject: How to handle forthcoming PR originator e-mail address


>
> Hello!
>
>I'm an originator of 4 open PRs and 9 closed ones. My e-mail address
will
> change soon. How should I handle the change to stay reachable for people
> working on PRs? Sorry to bother the list with (seems-to-be) a trivial
> question, I can't find reply in PR-related articles.
>
> Sincerely, Dmitry
> -- 
> Atlantis ISP, System Administrator
> e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> nic-hdl: LYNX-RIPE
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Re: Linux "equivalent" to freebsd

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

- Original Message - 
From: "Rick Apichairuk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: Linux "equivalent" to freebsd


>
> >Could you recommend a distribution you are using in production, we've
check
> >ubuntu, fedora and Debian, but I wonder what freebsd users recommend...
>
> >Thanks
>
> I recommend Gentoo or Slackware. I feel that these are most similar to
FreeBSD
> in organization, configuration and third party software management.
Personally,
> I use Gentoo when I can't use FreeBSD. With Gentoo, you can compile
everything
> to be optimized for your specific processor if you want to do so.
>

How exactly do you compile a binary-only product like Zend Platform to be
optimiized for your CPU?

I realize you mean well but this is commercial software, he needs to call
Zend
technical support first and ask them which specific linux distro they prefer
to
use.  If he does not do this then at 4pm in the afternoon when there is a
problem he may get "we didn't test it on that linux distro" from Zend tech
support.

Ted

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Re: Westell USB network adapter

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

First of all, I work for an ISP.  I can assure you that anything that
ActionTec makes is unmitigated garbage.  Only use it if you
absolutely must, and have it do as little as possible.  If you can
put it into bridged mode so that the NAT/routing functionality
can be done by something behind it, your years ahead.

Also, using USB for network connections is idiotic.  Go Ethernet
from the FIOS stuff to a wireless router.

I sometimes worry since the ISP I work at offers DSL in the
FIOS area and Verizon FIOS directly competes with us.  Then
I read posts like this that say what the Verizon techs are telling
customers and I realize I have nothing to worry about.

Ted

- Original Message - 
From: "White Hat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "FreeBSD Users Questions" 
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:53 AM
Subject: Westell USB network adapter


> Having gotten sick of my cable company, I am
> considering switching to Verizon FIOS. They want to
> install a Actiontec Router Model MI424-WR. They
> recommend the Westell USB network adapter. Does anyone
> have any experience with that unit and FBSD. I can use
> any adapter I want as long as it works with their
> router. I can use a hard wired system; however, if I
> can get the wireless system working correctly, I would
> rather do it that way. There are three computers on
> this network, two WinXP and one FBSD-6.2 system.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> -- 
> White Hat
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>


> Never miss an email again!
> Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
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Re: help on picking an IMAP server

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

- Original Message - 
From: "RW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: help on picking an IMAP server


> On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 01:40:48 -0500
> David Banning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I have been using imap-uw for some time but now I would like to 
> > have an imap server that can have subfolders. Out with imap-uw..
> > 
> > I tried dovecot but I was unable to get it to create subfolders,
> > although it seems some say you can, may people are having problems
> > doing so, and I didn't like the fact that it changes the format of
> > the folders from the mbox standard.
> 
> AFAIK imap-uw does support subfolders, to the same extent that UNIX
> supports subdirectories. The problem is that you can't have a
> mailbox file and a subdirectory of the same name in a directory. So in
> foo/bar, bar is a mailbox and foo/ is a  directory - so there can't be
> a top-level mailbox called foo.
> 
> It's just a matter of organizing your mailboxes to take account of
> this.

I agree, I have had no problems making folders on the server with
uw-imap

I respectfully submit that anyone who is ignorant of the importance of
UNIX special characters like the / in a directory name would almost
certainly boff up any IMAP subfolder creation regardless of what
IMAP server software he was using.

He's probably coming from a Mac.  Hopefully he knows about the
other UNIX special characters.  Unfortunately, immediately taking
an attitude that "It's not my mistake it must be the software" whenever
encountering trouble with a computer is not going to get anyone
very far.

Ted
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How to build an ISO Re: Build your own ISO-install-CD?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

- Original Message - 
From: "Ewald Jenisch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: 
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: Build your own ISO-install-CD?


>
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 12:07:17AM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> >
> > ...
> >
> > The process is long and complex.  You don't want to do it if you can
help
> > it.
> > If people beg me on this list I'll post the step by step I use but trust
me
> > you
> > really really don't want to do this unless absolutely necessary.
>
> Hi Ted,
>
> I suppose this might be of interest to others too, so maybe you could
> post your "receipe" here?
>

OK you asked for it.  Note this is -very rough- notes.  It is notes that you
use if you
understand the procedure, not what you use as an educational explanation.
You will
probably need to change directory locations for the various invocations.


 I did a boot from bootable CDROM then network install

setup filesystem :

root 2G
swap 1G
var  2G
usr  30G

home dirs will be in /usr/home

Select Kern-Developer, no Xwindows, no ports


After reboots, sysinstall and install cvsup-without-gui-16.1h_2 from the FTP
site

Also install a complete set of sources from the distribution media


8) Upgrade ports directories

cd /root

  c) cp /usr/share/examples/cvsup/ports-supfile .
  d) vi ports-supfile   change mirror name
 cvsup10.us.FreeBSD.org
  e) rehash
  f) cvsup -g -L 2 /root/ports-supfile
  g) Create the index with the command make index or
  g) Fetch the index with the command "make fetchindex"

now install cdrtools

  cd /usr/ports/sysutils/cdrtools
  make install


Recompile and rebuild the entire system to make sure it's clean:

cd /usr/src
make buildworld
make buildkernel
make installkernel

boot into single-user
boot -s
mount /
mount /tmp
mount all the rest of the system
cd /usr/src/usr.sbin/mergemaster
./mergemaster.sh -p  (say no to delete temproot)
cd /usr/src
make installworld
mergemaster
reboot

this results in a system that is a duplicate of the -release system if done
right

Now we start our updated builds:

NOTE:  These notes helped:
http://romana.now.ie/writing/customfreebsdiso.html

) setup a cvsupfile for the rest of the system:

e) cd /root cp ports-supfile release-supfile
vi release-supfile and change the bottom half to:

 IMPORTANT: Change the next line to use one of the CVSup mirror sites
# listed at http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/mirrors.html.
*default host=cvsup10.us.FreeBSD.org
*default base=/var/db
*default prefix=/usr/home/ncvs
*default release=cvs  (make sure to remove the tag here)
*default delete use-rel-suffix

# If you seem to be limited by CPU rather than network or disk bandwidth,
try
# commenting out the following line.  (Normally, today's CPUs are fast
enough
# that you want to run compression.)
*default compress

# ports-all
src-all
doc-all
cvsroot-all
#

) init the cvs database:

cvs -d /usr/home/ncvs init

 populate our local cvs database with the command: cvsup -g
/root/release-supfile

Now we got a local CVS synced to the master repository.

Now, before we start tearing into the new stuff, let's create our old src
and /usr/obj into
a RELEASE by doing this:

Now we make a unmodded  release itself (takes about 3 hours):
cd /usr/src/release
make release RELEASETAG=RELENG_6_1 PORTSRELEASETAG=HEAD
BUILDNAME=6.1-RELEASE CHROOTDIR=/usr/home/releng NODOC=yes NOPORTS=yes CVSRO
OT=/usr/home/ncvs

This will put the files to stage for the bootable ISO into /home/releng/R
The kernel will go into /home/releng/R/cdrom/disc1/boot/kernel
This will also put the files for FTP installation in /home/releng/R/ftp
which must be used with the ISO image for
an FTP installation if the CD drive becomes inaccessible during
installation.

cd /usr/home
(makes it with no floppy emulation)
sh /usr/src/release/i386/mkisoimages.sh -b FreeBSD6
/usr/home/6.1-RELEASE-disc1.iso /usr/home/releng/R/cdrom/disc1

burn this CD and test it as a scratch install CD!

Now to make a release off the current source for the tree:

  Since a whole lot of stuff
has dependencies, we want to start by saving the existing RELEASE source
tree (we might need it to regenerate a kernel)
cd /usr
mv src src.original

Blow away old releases and such
To delete the release then chflags -R noschg /usr/home/releng rm -r
/usr/home/releng rm -r /usr/obj rm -r /usr/src

cvsup -g /root/release-supfile (resync the src)

Replace this with the current source we are working on:

cd /usr
cvs -d /usr/home/ncvs checkout src

Now, before building a release, must buildworld (don't have to install it
though)
cd /usr/src
make -j4 buildworld  (approx 1.6 hours on 1.8Ghz Athlon with Promise
FastTrack RAID chip with -j4 option)
(only do this to check the kernel builds, not needed for a make release)
make buildkernel KERNCONF=GENERIC
NOTE: this puts 

Re: Build your own ISO-install-CD?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

- Original Message - 
From: "Ewald Jenisch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: 
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: Build your own ISO-install-CD?


>
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 12:07:17AM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> >
> > ...
> >
> > The process is long and complex.  You don't want to do it if you can
help
> > it.
> > If people beg me on this list I'll post the step by step I use but trust
me
> > you
> > really really don't want to do this unless absolutely necessary.
>
> Hi Ted,
>
> I suppose this might be of interest to others too, so maybe you could
> post your "receipe" here?
>
> >
> > Here is the easy way to fix this.
> >
> > 1) Burn a CD with the new driver
> >
> > 2) Boot off a regular install ISO and install your system plus kernel
> > sources
> >
> > 3) Mount the burned CD and copy the new driver to the kernel
> > source location it is supposed to be at
> >
> > 4) Recompile kernel and your in business.
> >
>
> Nice "shortcut-tip"! :-) Guess copying the complete /usr/src via CD to
> the target machine would even be better given the lot of mods that
> went into the system and kernel since 6.2 has been released.
>

No, not really.  Once you get a working network driver you can cvsup
to -current if you want.  But I would not run a production server on that.

Ted

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Re: Periodic xl watchdog timeouts on 6.2-RELEASE

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian J. Conway" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 3:13 AM
Subject: Re: Periodic xl watchdog timeouts on 6.2-RELEASE


> On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 22:22:44 -0800
> "Ted Mittelstaedt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I have found with some of the intel MBs that the latest BIOS update
> > actually causes trouble.  Don't be afraid to try back-flashing to an
> > older BIOS update.  Intel has all the BIOS versions up on their site for
> > each board.
> >
> > Ted
>
> Tried a few things in the past couple days:
>
> - Set the interfaces to not auto-negotiate and hard-coded them: No change.
> - Tried the past 3 BIOS revisions I had been using previously: No change.
>
> Next up, started swapping around cards.  I noticed that one of my 3 3c905C
> cards hadn't been giving the watchdog timeout errors that I could
> remember, even though I'm doubting 2/3 of my previously-good cards are
> actually bad, but I kept that one at xl1 and tried a good 3c905B as xl0.
> This worked a little differently, now instead of watchdog timeouts, on the
> previously-normal xl1 I get:
>
> Mar 15 05:56:51 imogen kernel: xl1: transmission error: 90
> Mar 15 05:56:51 imogen kernel: xl1: tx underrun, increasing tx start
> threshold to 120 bytes
>
> I know it's *technically* an informational message and not a problem, I'm
> a perfectionist and would prefer it not to be there.

I didn't know you had multiple 3com cards so I didn't mention this earlier,
but you will find the 3com cards with the WHITE label on the card to work
better than the ones with the YELLOW label.  It's a chipset revision thing.
It also happens under some versions of Linux.

The underrun error is perfectly fine and can be ignored.  I have gotten them
myself with no ill effects.  You will not be able to fix this message.  It
will go
away once the driver has increased the buffer enough.

Ted

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Re: Build your own ISO-install-CD?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

- Original Message - 
From: "Ewald Jenisch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 1:14 AM
Subject: Build your own ISO-install-CD?


> Hi,
>
> I need to build my own ISO-install-CD for FreeBSD 6.2. Is this
> possible (given an up-to-date /usr/src tree)?
>

Yes

> If yes, how?
>

The process is long and complex.  You don't want to do it if you can help
it.
If people beg me on this list I'll post the step by step I use but trust me
you
really really don't want to do this unless absolutely necessary.

> Will this process build build a "mini"-CD or a full "Disc1"?
>

all install disks, plus the mini, depending on what options you set.

> Can this "home-brewn" install-CD be used instead of the Disc1 of the
> 6.2 CD-set when installing a machine from scratch?
>

yes

> Will it prompt for the second CD containing the various
> packages?
>

it is the same as the distributed install cd so yes.

> Thanks in advance for any clue,
> -ewald
>
> PS: Just for explanation: The original 6.2 install-CDs don't support a
> specific NIC I've got in my blade-systems. A new-version of the
> corresponding driver has already been submitted though.

Here is the easy way to fix this.

1) Burn a CD with the new driver

2) Boot off a regular install ISO and install your system plus kernel
sources

3) Mount the burned CD and copy the new driver to the kernel
source location it is supposed to be at

4) Recompile kernel and your in business.

Way, way, way easier than making a custom cd

Ted

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Re: Fixing DST manually on rel4 & rel5

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

- Original Message - 
From: "Chuck Swiger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Ken Cochran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: Fixing DST manually on rel4 & rel5


> On Mar 14, 2007, at 10:29 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> > echo "ln -s /usr/share/zoneinfo/PST8PDT /etc/localtime"
> > [ ... ]
> >
> > I think the ln-s line is backwards, I didn't check it.  I think it's
> > been a while since they used softlinks for localtime
> 
> The use of "ln -s" will work just fine as written.  I don't know why  
> tzsetup makes a copy of the zoneinfo file rather than setting up a  
> symlink, but making a copy simply allows the file in /etc to become  
> out-of-sync if one updates the files under /usr/share{/lib}/zoneinfo  
> without re-running tzsetup again.
> 

Maybe they want the timezone to be correct if you boot into
single user mode and don't mount /usr?

Ted
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Re: FreeBSD Devil Image

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff Rollin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> I think it needs to be clarified that the reason /why/ the image of
> Beastie is so apt to represent a Daemon is only /because/ it LOOKS
> like a daemon/devil. 

How do ye know what thee Angel of the Bottomless Pit looks like?  Do
ye regularly meet with the Antichrist?

Ted
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Re: FreeBSD Devil Image

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

- Original Message - 
From: "Pieter de Goeje" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Cc: "Adam Gerety" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: FreeBSD Devil Image


> Op dinsdag 13 maart 2007 20:34, schreef Jeff Rollin:
> > On 13/03/07, Andrew Pantyukhin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Our beastie may be a bit devilish in some respects, but
> > > please don't call him just a devil. Some people stay
> > > away from FreeBSD for religious reasons. Feeding their
> > > misconception is the last thing we want to do.
> >
> > Do you really think it'll make any difference to these people whether
> > we call it a devil or a banana, once they see it?
> Well I don't think you'll be taken seriously when you call it a banana! :)


That depends on how long yer banana is and who yer talking to

Ted

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Re: Fixing DST manually on rel4 & rel5

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

here is my quick hack script to manually do this

#!/bin/sh
zdump -v /etc/localtime | grep 2007
echo  If sun Mar 11 and Nov 1 then OK
echo Otherwise stop script now and rerun from clean temp dir
echo "also ls -l /etc |more and check that localtime is not a link"
sleep 5
fetch ftp://sunrise.ipinc.net/pub/tzdata2007c.tar.gz
tar -xzf tzdata2007c.tar.gz
zic -d zoneinfo northamerica
cp -R zoneinfo/* /usr/share/zoneinfo
zdump -v /usr/share/zoneinfo/PST8PDT | grep 2007
zdump -v /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Los_Angeles | grep 2007
echo "if localtime is a link then stop and rm /etc/localtime then"
echo "ln -s /usr/share/zoneinfo/PST8PDT /etc/localtime"
sleep 5
cp /usr/share/zoneinfo/PST8PDT /etc/localtime
zdump -v /etc/localtime | grep 2007
echo If Sun Mar 11 and Nov 1 then OK
echo "now rm -r this temp dir"
$

I think the ln-s line is backwards, I didn't check it.  I think it's
been a while since they used softlinks for localtime

Ted

- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Cochran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 7:01 AM
Subject: Fixing DST manually on rel4 & rel5


> Hello -questions:
>
> This is most certanly a FAQ but I'm not yet finding the kind of
> answer I need...
>
> I have a couple of old FreeBSD systems that I can't (yet) update
> to the new Daylight Saving Time rules (based on the email message
> that came out on -announce in late February).  One is
> 4.10-stable, last updated late November 2004 & the other is
> 5.4-release.  Cvsup brings /usr/src in order but I can't update
> ports (yet) to get misc/zoneinfo and it doesn't look like I can
> just "transfer" the /usr/share/zoneinfo bits over from /usr/src
> without a {build,install}world (also impractical at this time).
>
> Best I can tell from the message that came from -announce sometime
> back, the same fix(es) would apply to both the 4 & 5 branches.
>
> Is there a "proper" way to fix the timezone on these machines
> "manually" pending the "real" change that will happen in the
> system according to the previous rules/schedule?  (e.g. Fix it
> temporarily/manually but not clobber the original rules.)
>
> Or is there some way to install the new cvsup'ed zoneinfo bits
> into an "old" system so I can run tzsetup and have everything
> fixed "correctly?"  I'm in US Central timezone and I've seen it
> reported as CST6CDT (I guess that's in SysV).
>
> FAQ/doc/book pointers/references are welcome of course - I'm
> still digging around in both the Handbook & Complete FreeBSD
> and wherever else I can find...
>
> Many thanks,
>
> -kc
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Re: Did I take the wrong bus with FreeBSD 6 to VMware?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Robert,

  You have device driver conflicts with the hardware.  Most likely it is
the ata driver and the rocket raid card.  The rocket raids are nice cards
but
I have had them blow up too.  In my case I simply moved the rocket raid card
to a different system where it was rock solid, and put in a promise card
that
was blowing up in yet a third system.  I have a whole collection of hardware
to play with.  Unfortunately that is what happens when you work with
operating systems that wern't preloaded on the hardware you bought.

Ted

- Original Message - 
From: "Robert Eckardt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 3:27 PM
Subject: Did I take the wrong bus with FreeBSD 6 to VMware?


> Hi,
>
> for some time I'm trying to get FreeBSD 6 running on my server
> as a host for VMware and several other functions.
>
> I'm using a 1.7GHz Pentium M 735 on an AOpen i855GMEm-LFS mobo
> w/ USB, VGA, 2xGbit/s, 2xPATA channels etc. on board.
> I used to run FBSD-5.2.1 with vmware3 on an Epox mobo w/ a 2GHz
> Celeron without problems.
> After changing HW (mobo, CPU, HDD) and OS (FBSD6.0) I found the
> system to "freeze" upon accessing an USB device when vmware was
> running.
> So my first investigations led to its driver, but in some cases
> heavy disk I/O was sufficient to cause a freeze.
>
> Since the situation got worse with FreeBSD 6.2 I started to work
> on it more systematically and found the following (actually I was
> on the verge to switch to Linux CentOS 4.4 or OpenSUSE 10.2 with
> VMware Server running nicely, but the HD and network performance
> were disappointing):
>
> 1)**ACPI off, "Assign USB IRQ" disabled in BIOS, vmware3 started:
> vmware3 runs fine, but no USB devices.
>
> 2)**ACPI off, "Assign USB IRQ" enabled in BIOS, vmware3 started:
> system "freezes" with network connections breaking, endless
> messages
> ad2: WARNING: - SETFEATURES SET TRANSFER MODE taskqueue timeout -
completing
> request directly
> ad2: WARNING: - SETFEATURES SET TRANSFER MODE taskqueue timeout -
completing
> request directly
> ad2: WARNING: - SETFEATURES ENABLE RCACHE taskqueue timeout - completing
> request directly
> ad2: WARNING: - SETFEATURES ENABLE WCACHE taskqueue timeout - completing
> request directly
> ad2: WARNING: - SET_MULTI taskq.
> ad2: FAILURE [or TIMEOUT] - WRITE:DMA timed out [or retrying] LBA=
> g_vs_done():ad2s1e[WRITE(offset=, length=)]error = 5
> typing reboot will finally reboot the system after several hours,
> nothing in the logs though.
>
> 3)**ACPI off, "Assign USB IRQ" enabled in BIOS, additional PCI-VGA
> card installed, using either PCI-VGA *or* on-board VGA, vmware3
> started:
> vmware3 runs fine, also when accessing the USB device.
>
> 4)**ACPI on, "Assign USB IRQ" enabled in BIOS, additional PCI-VGA card
> installed, using on-board VGA, vmware3 started:
> system "freezes" with messages above.
>
> So, what's the relation between the scenarios?
> Where can I tweak the system to get it stable?
>
> Since I spend already several man-days on getting VMware running
> on my machine, I would like to help further debugging by making
> additional tests, but I don't know where to start.
>
> I can live without ACPI (for the time being) -- the old system
> consumes 125W while the Pentium M machine stays at 42W with ACPI
> taking about another 8W in idle-state.
> For me it seems essential why enabling/disabling USB in the BIOS
> or adding an additional PCI-VGA card stabilizes the system and
> why the unstable system behaves the same way like with enabling
> ACPI.
>
> I put some boot_verbose-logs on http://www.robert-eckardt.de/ghost/
>
> Regards,
> Robert
>
> --
> Dr. Robert Eckardt---[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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Re: Sendmail on a new Freebsd6.2 Won't Send or Receive.

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

sendmail_enable="YES" in /etc/rc.conf?

Ted

- Original Message - 
From: "Martin McCormick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 7:21 PM
Subject: Sendmail on a new Freebsd6.2 Won't Send or Receive.


> I have just set up a new freeBSD6.2 system which should
> be fully capable of sending and receiving mail via sendmail.
> The processes are all running.  It acts like inetd.conf has the
> ports closed, but there aren't any specifically for smtp.
> /etc/services has smtp ports listed and all open like they
> should be.
>
> If you telnet to port 25 either from another system or
> from the localhost, the "connection refused" message is
> immediate and no log entries in maillog are generated.
>
> The only entries being generated at all are routine
> messages when the queue starts and messages that say that a
> given message is deferred due to not being able to be delivered
> so it appears to be stuck both directions.
>
> Any suggestions on what else to look at?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Martin McCormick WB5AGZ  Stillwater, OK
> Systems Engineer
> OSU Information Technology Department Network Operations Group
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Re: Periodic xl watchdog timeouts on 6.2-RELEASE

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

I have found with some of the intel MBs that the latest BIOS update
actually causes trouble.  Don't be afraid to try back-flashing to an older
BIOS update.  Intel has all the BIOS versions up on their site for each
board.

Ted

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian J. Conway" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: Periodic xl watchdog timeouts on 6.2-RELEASE


> > I had exactly the same problem in my acpi-blacklisted motherboard. I
> > disabled acpi and the errors vanished. In my case, this error was not
> > related with NICs, but exclusively with the motherboard.
>
> Interesting.  I hadn't thought of that, but I am using ACPI now where I
> was not on 4.x.  I'll give that a try next time it happens.  I would have
> hoped the motherboard would be up to par (Intel D845GVSR with the latest
> BIOS - http://www.intel.com/products/motherboard/D845GVSR/index.htm), but
> maybe not.  Thanks.
>
> (Sorry for the bad threading, I'm off list and copying off the web
> archive.)
>
> Brian J. Conway
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Re: Problem with VPN and LinkSYS BEFSX41

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

We had the same problem last year when we ran a tunnel between a Cisco
7200 running Cisco IOS and a BEF SX 41.  Keep in mind that Cisco
now owns Linksys.  In short, the owners of Linksys obviously know
that the Linksys product is garbage but they have not released a fix
for it's firmware.

I rechristened that particular model the BEF SUX 41.  It seems to fit.

Eventually the BEF burned up and I was rid of dealing with it.  Hoo Boy
the customer lost $50 that they spent on it!!

Moral of the story:  Crappy hardware does not a stable network make.

While you probably won't want to give Linksys any further business,
you should know that the Linksys RV042 is a vastly superior implementation
of the same product.

Ted

- Original Message - 
From: "Alexey Zakirov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 1:13 AM
Subject: Problem with VPN and LinkSYS BEFSX41


> Hello!
>
> Situation: FreeBSD 5.3-Release + pf + racoon at local end and LinkSys
> BEFSX41 v2.1 firmware 1.52.9 at remote.
> Lifetime of phase 1 and phase 2 is the same and equal 3600 sec.
> Tunnel is getting up. I use setkey -D to SAD entries. There are 2
entries -
> inbound and outbound. OK
> When lifetime ends, there become 3 SAD entries - 1 outbound and 2 inbound.
> Number of inbound SAD entries is growing until tunnel goes down.
>
> Please help me, what's the cause?
>
> Yours,
>   Alexey Zakirov
>
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Re: FreeBSD Torrent Server

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

- Original Message - 
From: "Oliver Fromme" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 3:50 AM
Subject: Re: FreeBSD Torrent Server


> Sorry for the late reply, but I think this one needs a
> correction, so others don't find wrong information in
> the archives ...
>
> Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>  > [...]
>  > The FreeBSD Beastie was struck from his position as logo for FreeBSD
>  > for some EXTREMELY minor controversy surrounding religions icons.
>  > Well, using  a Devil image didn't pirate anyone software or break a
law.
>  > Yet Beastie was axed for exactly the same "guilt by association"
reasons.
>
> I'm afraid that paragraph is completely wrong.  The BSD
> daemon (sometimes called "Beastie", but that's not its
> official name) was not "struck from his position as a
> logo", and it was not "axed".
>
> The BSD daemon never was a logo of the FreeBSD project.
> It was rather a mascot (and it still is!).

Not this again.

Before the "devil" controversy flared up, there was no usage of
"mascot" in relation to Beastie.

The term "mascot" began to be used by the anti-Beastie people
as a way of appeasement of the pro-Beastie people.

> However, it
> was sometimes used in a context where a logo would be
> used normally, simply for the fact that FreeBSD didn't
> have a real logo.
>

It was always used in a context where a logo would be used
normally simply for the fact that it WAS the FreeBSD logo.

The many years of Walnut Creek selling FreeBSD cd's
firmly established Beastie as the logo.

> Now, after the result of the logo contest last year,
> FreeBSD has a real, official logo, in addition to the
> BSD daemon mascot.

There is no law or requirement that says that anyone cannot still
continue to use the Beastie image as a logo if they want.  What we
got from the contest is simply a second image that can be used as
a logo.

Nobody is arguing that Beastie was the best logo image that could
of been used.  This is something that the anti-Beastie people have
never understood.  One of it's drawbacks is that the image is
copyrighted by McKusick and permission must be sought by him
when using it.  Another is that it does not reporduce well at all as
a thumbnail.  A third is that so many different forms of Beastie
have been drawn that it has diluted the it's value as a logo.  And last
and most importantly, it has religious connotations that can cause trouble
for it being used as an image with certain groups.

If the anti-Beastie people had approached Beastie with reverence
and brought up these issues there would never have been a
controversy.  However the fact was that the anti-Beastie people
were so hell-bent on getting a new logo design that they took
the tack that "oh we aren't going to replace Beastie" to try to
pacify the pro-Beastie people.  It didn't work, people saw through
it.  That is why the logo contest dragged on easily 6 months longer
than the organizers originally hoped.  It is also why the logo
contest was not a public one - nobody but the contest organizers
saw all of the submissions, the userbase was no given any kind of
voting choice.  The entire issue was dynamite and caused an uproar
whenever it was brought up in any online discussion.

The very fact that you feel compelled even now, a year after your site
has successfully bulldozed the new FreeBSD sex-toy logo design through,
to still try to rewrite history shows the emotion that is
still there in the controversy.

>  Just look at www.freebsd.org.
> It doesn't look axed to me.  ;-)
>

If the pro-Beastie people had rolled over without complaining then
Beastie would not be on the website anymore.  What happened is that
in order to calm the controversy, the website designers continued to use
Beastie on the website.  For now, that is.  But there is a long term
plan to gradually convince the userbase that Beastie is obsolete, and
one of the techniques is rewriting history on the public forums, like
you are attempting to do here with your post.

This discussion is exactly the same issue as why the US Department of
Defense still does not allow the Pentagram (wiccan symbol) to be drawn
on military tombstones.  They allow every other major religious symbol
including the stupid "universal swirl" that some Athiests use.

Ted

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