Re: [Freedos-devel] Freedos and lack of drivers
If you have several DOSEMUs running in parallel, these cannot communicate. Linux, however, allows one process to spawn another process and then there is pipe() to have these processes communicate. A tiny Linux distribution without X and graphics is here: http://www.ttylinux.net/ Georg-- BlackBerry® DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA Learn about the latest advances in developing for the BlackBerry® mobile platform with sessions, labs & more. See new tools and technologies. Register for BlackBerry® DevCon today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy1 ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Freedos and lack of drivers
Hi Rugxulo, On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Rugxulo wrote: > Hi, > Vista and 7 let you resize the NTFS partition. With XP you may have to > use (external) GParted (on a Linux liveCD), which is a little tricker. > Then ideally you'd maybe (?) use EasyBCD to configure the Windows > bootloader (as I don't think GRUB cooperates very well, at least > IMHO). > > Thanks for this good idea. I'll try that. > > so the option would be limited to a Virtual Machine. Thus I'll try your > > idea, with DeLi + DOSEMU inside VMware or Virtual Box. Thank you for your > > idea. > > It's certainly safer / easier to install in VM but perhaps slower and > buggier (depending). > Yes, I still want to do this. To try run in VM and if it works fine then it should be fine on physical hardware. > > Well, Connochaet (sp?) is based upon ArchLinux now, so perhaps it's > more compatible than even old DeLi was. I just know that DeLi (esp. > before the Unicode-aware 0.8.0) was very very light on RAM. Of course, > who knows, perhaps uclibc had bugs re: DOSEMU anyways, dunno. :-/ > > But MicroCore might work too, and personally I'd probably try that > first. (My other PC uses Lucid PuppyLinux, partially Ubuntu > compatible, and DOSEMU works fine there. But it's not super ultra > minimal, it's got X11 and other stuff, totals about 130 MB.) > > Anyways, I dunno, sometimes things work, sometimes they don't. You > never know until you try. That's all part of the fun (and frustration) > with computers. ;-) > > Nice recommendations. I'll try DeLi first, because I'm not so much a Linux power user. Best regards, Robbie -- BlackBerry® DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA Learn about the latest advances in developing for the BlackBerry® mobile platform with sessions, labs & more. See new tools and technologies. Register for BlackBerry® DevCon today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy1 ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Freedos and lack of drivers
Hi, On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 7:30 PM, Decheng Fan wrote: > > You introduction really made me wanting to try out DOSEMU. It's unfortunate > that I allocated all my hard disk space (120GB) of my computer to Windows, Vista and 7 let you resize the NTFS partition. With XP you may have to use (external) GParted (on a Linux liveCD), which is a little tricker. Then ideally you'd maybe (?) use EasyBCD to configure the Windows bootloader (as I don't think GRUB cooperates very well, at least IMHO). > so the option would be limited to a Virtual Machine. Thus I'll try your > idea, with DeLi + DOSEMU inside VMware or Virtual Box. Thank you for your > idea. It's certainly safer / easier to install in VM but perhaps slower and buggier (depending). Well, Connochaet (sp?) is based upon ArchLinux now, so perhaps it's more compatible than even old DeLi was. I just know that DeLi (esp. before the Unicode-aware 0.8.0) was very very light on RAM. Of course, who knows, perhaps uclibc had bugs re: DOSEMU anyways, dunno. :-/ But MicroCore might work too, and personally I'd probably try that first. (My other PC uses Lucid PuppyLinux, partially Ubuntu compatible, and DOSEMU works fine there. But it's not super ultra minimal, it's got X11 and other stuff, totals about 130 MB.) Anyways, I dunno, sometimes things work, sometimes they don't. You never know until you try. That's all part of the fun (and frustration) with computers. ;-) -- BlackBerry® DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA Learn about the latest advances in developing for the BlackBerry® mobile platform with sessions, labs & more. See new tools and technologies. Register for BlackBerry® DevCon today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy1 ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Freedos and lack of drivers
Hi Rugxulo, You introduction really made me wanting to try out DOSEMU. It's unfortunate that I allocated all my hard disk space (120GB) of my computer to Windows, so the option would be limited to a Virtual Machine. Thus I'll try your idea, with DeLi + DOSEMU inside VMware or Virtual Box. Thank you for your idea. Best regards, Robbie (Decheng) Fan On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 3:13 AM, Rugxulo wrote: > Hi, > > 2011/9/18 Aitor Santamaría : > > > > 2011/9/13 Jim Hall : > >> In DOS, it would be awesome to have true multitasking > > > > Pick the smallest Linux distribution that you know. > > These days that would probably be MicroCore (aka, TinyCore w/o X11) > Linux. It's about a 7 MB .ISO download. I think the RAM usage is > pretty low. I haven't tested DOSEMU, but I think nowadays you need > Glibc 2.2, kernel 2.6, etc. (which it has, IIRC). So you can't just > randomly pick any old Linux, sadly. > > http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/welcome.html > > Some people have suggested Debian in the past as a good stable > starting point. But I remember DeLi 0.7.2 (uclibc-based) had a DOSEMU > package, and that's been resurrected as ConnochaetOS (though I haven't > tested it yet): > > http://www.connochaetos.org/wiki/ > > > Remove X and anything about graphics. > > Yes but easier said than done. > > > Remove any Unix stuff, > > I guess you mean all the unnecessary POSIX tools. At least > substituting Busybox should cover a good deal of it. > > The barebones stuff is kernel (vmlinuz), initrd.gz, and root system > (/bin/sh) etc. (I think), and Gujin is a good boot loader (with DOS > version), meant to replace Loadlin / Lilo. > > > Wouldn't it be great that you'd have several FreeDOSes running > > simultaneously? (switch with Ctrl+Alt+Fn). > > Well, yes, that would be the whole point. But here's a naive question: > can a single DOSEMU session use more than 64 MB of memory? (Newer > GCCs really eat a lot.) > > > You wouldn't have the problem of "modern hardware" (Linux does the > > part), but then you have quite other disadvantages (I don't know how > > good would be the drive mapping process that DOSEMU does. Would be > > nice if DOSEMU scanned all the disks and mapped ALL partitions > > automatically). > > Well, the only disadvantage isn't really one at all: it's not perfect > (but no DOS environment, or any OS, is). So there are bugs and > incompatibilities, just like anything. But overall it works quite > well. > > > In the meantime, yes, at least task switching would be great. > > Old-style real mode stuff should be easy to swap in and out of memory. > (I remember some old swappers from 80xxx snippets, but I don't know > how stable they were.) I imagine that it's when you start adding ten > bazillion memory managers that things get complex. > > http://www.filegate.net/pdnasm/ > > The real problem is trying to determine what apps you want to run. > Personally I'd prefer DJGPP (cmdline, textmode) stuff and similar, but > even that is probably a bit too complex for a simple memory swapper. > Though of course DOSEMU handles DPMI fine. > > P.S. Actually at one time I wanted to build pcemu under (DOS) Minix > 2.04 to be able to fake multitasking, but ACK didn't like the stock > sources, and I never fiddled with it further. > > http://pcemu.sourceforge.net/ > http://www.minix3.org/previous-versions/Intel-2.0.4/ > > > -- > BlackBerry® DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy2 > ___ > Freedos-devel mailing list > Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel > -- BlackBerry® DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA Learn about the latest advances in developing for the BlackBerry® mobile platform with sessions, labs & more. See new tools and technologies. Register for BlackBerry® DevCon today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy1 ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Freedos and lack of drivers
Hi, 2011/9/18 Aitor Santamaría : > > 2011/9/13 Jim Hall : >> In DOS, it would be awesome to have true multitasking > > Pick the smallest Linux distribution that you know. These days that would probably be MicroCore (aka, TinyCore w/o X11) Linux. It's about a 7 MB .ISO download. I think the RAM usage is pretty low. I haven't tested DOSEMU, but I think nowadays you need Glibc 2.2, kernel 2.6, etc. (which it has, IIRC). So you can't just randomly pick any old Linux, sadly. http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/welcome.html Some people have suggested Debian in the past as a good stable starting point. But I remember DeLi 0.7.2 (uclibc-based) had a DOSEMU package, and that's been resurrected as ConnochaetOS (though I haven't tested it yet): http://www.connochaetos.org/wiki/ > Remove X and anything about graphics. Yes but easier said than done. > Remove any Unix stuff, I guess you mean all the unnecessary POSIX tools. At least substituting Busybox should cover a good deal of it. The barebones stuff is kernel (vmlinuz), initrd.gz, and root system (/bin/sh) etc. (I think), and Gujin is a good boot loader (with DOS version), meant to replace Loadlin / Lilo. > Wouldn't it be great that you'd have several FreeDOSes running > simultaneously? (switch with Ctrl+Alt+Fn). Well, yes, that would be the whole point. But here's a naive question: can a single DOSEMU session use more than 64 MB of memory? (Newer GCCs really eat a lot.) > You wouldn't have the problem of "modern hardware" (Linux does the > part), but then you have quite other disadvantages (I don't know how > good would be the drive mapping process that DOSEMU does. Would be > nice if DOSEMU scanned all the disks and mapped ALL partitions > automatically). Well, the only disadvantage isn't really one at all: it's not perfect (but no DOS environment, or any OS, is). So there are bugs and incompatibilities, just like anything. But overall it works quite well. > In the meantime, yes, at least task switching would be great. Old-style real mode stuff should be easy to swap in and out of memory. (I remember some old swappers from 80xxx snippets, but I don't know how stable they were.) I imagine that it's when you start adding ten bazillion memory managers that things get complex. http://www.filegate.net/pdnasm/ The real problem is trying to determine what apps you want to run. Personally I'd prefer DJGPP (cmdline, textmode) stuff and similar, but even that is probably a bit too complex for a simple memory swapper. Though of course DOSEMU handles DPMI fine. P.S. Actually at one time I wanted to build pcemu under (DOS) Minix 2.04 to be able to fake multitasking, but ACK didn't like the stock sources, and I never fiddled with it further. http://pcemu.sourceforge.net/ http://www.minix3.org/previous-versions/Intel-2.0.4/ -- BlackBerry® DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy2 ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Freedos and lack of drivers
Hi, 2011/9/13 Jim Hall : > In DOS, it would be awesome to have true multitasking, where you can > let a process run in the background (like a compile) while you do > something else (browser?) But to be honest, all I really want/need is > some sort of extension or "shell" that provides task-switching, rather > than true multitasking. There would be a way, but would require someone to find out if it is feasible and work about it. I haven't done it myself, although I was tempted to try out. Pick the smallest Linux distribution that you know. Remove X and anything about graphics. Remove any Unix stuff, and configure init to have several virtual consoles boot the text-mode of DOSEMU (instead of any unix-style terminal), in which you put FreeDOS. Wouldn't it be great that you'd have several FreeDOSes running simultaneously? (switch with Ctrl+Alt+Fn). You wouldn't have the problem of "modern hardware" (Linux does the part), but then you have quite other disadvantages (I don't know how good would be the drive mapping process that DOSEMU does. Would be nice if DOSEMU scanned all the disks and mapped ALL partitions automatically). In the meantime, yes, at least task switching would be great. Aitor -- BlackBerry® DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy2 ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Freedos and lack of drivers
Hi, 2011/9/11 Bernd Blaauw : > Not sure about FDSHELL's abilities. I'd love for someone to come up with > a decent DOSSHELL.INI for it, including a usable/pretty color scheme. It > can already jump to DOS, same for EDIT Annotated as feature request. (regrettably, don't expect it soon). Aitor -- BlackBerry® DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy2 ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Freedos and lack of drivers
Hi, 2011/9/11 jhall : > > There are multitasking DOSes (DR-DOS, RDOS, TSX-32 ??, etc.) > > inherently useless > > > Not useless, really. For example, MS-DOS 5 introduced their DOS Shell that > supported task switching, a rudimentary form of multitasking. > I used to use this feature all the time as a student: for example, to run a > word processor and spreadsheet program as separate tasks. I think I usually > had a command.com shell in there too. That let me write up my data analysis > for labs much faster, because I could quickly jump back to the spreadsheet > or my own analysis program to look at results, then describe it using the > word processor. > I'd love to see this as a feature added to FreeDOS one day. Me too! I fear about hardware status, thought it should be feasible for "regular" programs. Aitor -- BlackBerry® DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy2 ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
[Freedos-devel] (no subject)
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