Re: [Freedos-user] Some driver updates

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Robert Riebisch  wrote:
>
>> For anyone relatively new to the FreeDOS email lists, Jack's drivers come up 
>> every once in a while.

It's mainly because he obsessively updates them, and he craves
attention (despite being banned), even though he doesn't even use
"FleaDOS" (as he calls us)!

Also, some few misguided people keep recommending the drivers to us,
even if they are (now, unfairly) closed source! (Why??)

>> Jack writes good code

Yes and no.

"Mar-05" (2015) seems to basically works fine ... not that he was kind
enough to tell us about that "release". I only found it by checking
his friend's DropBox. So we were still only mirroring the Oct-whatever
(2014) version because he made so many laborious stipulations
(paraphrased, "don't mirror unless I can announce it myself via
freedos-user!"). March 5th was when he explicitly "gave up" (on
FreeDOS, SF.net, x86 PCs!) just to get me to leave him alone.

Even though I had spent months trying to get him to resolve (well,
workaround) his SF.net certificate issue (which you, Jim, created a
bug ticket for on SF.net since he directly emailed both of us
privately [Nov. 13, 2014] to help him!), he still wasn't happy.

https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/site-support/9091/

And yet he later emailed me privately (March 12 [sic]), telling me to
also mirror iBiblio the new "Mar-18" since "Mar-05" had "magically
appeared" without announcement. But that later one wouldn't boot for
me anymore.

Jim, on March 14 [sic], 2015, I emailed you explaining this:

"So now I downloaded [Mar-18 drivers], but for whatever reason, my
system didn't boot correctly.
I was too busy to try to figure out why, so I just assumed it was a
regression and reverted.
(Remember, Jack doesn't use FreeDOS, and I have no idea if his
'testers' [if anybody left:
Johnson? Khusraw?] reliably tests every minor release.)"

>> but he tends to get very upset very quickly, and then lashes out at people.

On March 17, 2015, I wrote to mvojvodic on BTTR's forum:

"If you want to try his latest drivers (Mar-18) [sic], grab them from
his DropBox, but since he doesn't even use FreeDOS (only MS-DOS 6.22),
I'm not sure if they work at all anymore
[link to DropBox URL]"

On May 16, 2015, Jack wrote to me privately, insulting me heavily
(most of which I will not quote here, although he's used similar
insults to many others before). Most of his wrath was a delayed
response to my (April 4) post to Zangune on the SF.net bug tracker. He
still acted offended that we would dare suggest he upgrade his web
browser to a newer, freeware version that ran on his unsupported OS
[NT 4] (or similar workarounds). "Microsoft and Intel shills", he
called us, even though we tried to find him free workarounds.

But he also said this:

"I went to close-source drivers because, AND ONLY BECAUSE, of the following
[my above BTTR post, based solely on one sentence:  "I'm not sure if
[the drivers] work at all anymore"]"

So that one sentence he took out of context, so he claims to 100%
blame me. (Which is bogus and makes no sense.)

Despite me later telling him several times that he was wrong, *despite
him openly acknowledging and pretending to understand this* (June 15
on freedos-user), he still went literally insane (June 30 on
freedos-user) and was very abusive on this mailing list (and seemed to
not understand what we'd already discussed).

So his June 15 email made it very clear that he understood. I was not
vague. And yet his June 30 email was the one where he can't seem to
understand the difference between "Mar-05" and "Mar-18". And that is
the questionable email that I wonder if he even was the author. In
fact, I still don't know how he got back on the mailing list since
*that was the whole point of me emailing him, for months at a time!!*
That was the whole issue that I couldn't get him to resolve, and he
was tired of hearing my help, so he (falsely said) "I Give UP!" on
everything! (So he "gave up" before he went closed source, based upon
his own incompetence. Or maybe he just lied about his reasoning.)

>> He has brought a lot of ill will here.

He likes calling people names, especially those of a certain nation,
which he apparently dislikes heavily. (Hey, Johnson Lam, even beloved
hero, Bruce Lee, shared lineage with that wonderful nation! Isn't that
great news?? No wonder he was so successful!)

I even found an old post on BTTR (Nov. 7, 2007) where you, Robert,
publicly posted an email from him where he was very rude to you. Yes,
his behavior is ridiculous and unfair, but at least you're not alone!
You're not the only target of his (unjustified) wrath.

>> It's no surprise that Jack keeps adding notices in his software "license" 
>> that says you cannot use his program on or with FreeDOS.

I wouldn't know, I can't check the binaries since he forbids
redistribution, is closed source, and hates everyone.

But my guess is that it's not license prohibition but instead OEM 0xFD
ban in software itself

Re: [Freedos-user] Some driver updates

[Eric Auer]

Hi Rugxulo,

you are not going to make Jack any more kind by publicly
sharing all private email details of your private fight...

Jack does update drivers because he is a perfectionist,
but he is also known for not liking the FreeDOS community
(including in particular you) so it is no surprise that
he fails to make nice announcements, share sources, etc.
... which is why almost everybody here stopped to care.

I, too found it a bit silly that there even was a license,
and for a while even code, for preventing FreeDOS use of
the drivers. The "hack" problem was for one of the closed
source releases: Somebody used a debugger to deobfuscate
that driver to remove machine code which had deliberately
made the driver unusable on FreeDOS. You cannot STEAL free
software indeed but you can upset authors by spoiling their
ability to upset users :-p So yes, you can call it a HACK.
Note that this was many years ago, long forgotten by many.

So what should I say? We already know everything about the
situation. There is no point in reiterating again and again
that fights between humans keep machines from enjoying nice
drivers here, as this is not going to change that anyway.

Cheers, Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] Some driver updates

[Gregg Eshelman via Freedos-user]

What do these "Jack's Drivers" actually do?
 

On Friday, November 17, 2017, 1:59:11 AM MST, Eric Auer 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi Rugxulo,

you are not going to make Jack any more kind by publicly
sharing all private email details of your private fight...

Jack does update drivers because he is a perfectionist,
but he is also known for not liking the FreeDOS community
(including in particular you) so it is no surprise that
he fails to make nice announcements, share sources, etc.
... which is why almost everybody here stopped to care.

I, too found it a bit silly that there even was a license,
and for a while even code, for preventing FreeDOS use of
the drivers. The "hack" problem was for one of the closed
source releases: Somebody used a debugger to deobfuscate
that driver to remove machine code which had deliberately
made the driver unusable on FreeDOS. You cannot STEAL free
software indeed but you can upset authors by spoiling their
ability to upset users :-p So yes, you can call it a HACK.
Note that this was many years ago, long forgotten by many.

So what should I say? We already know everything about the
situation. There is no point in reiterating again and again
that fights between humans keep machines from enjoying nice
drivers here, as this is not going to change that anyway.  --
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Re: [Freedos-user] Some driver updates

[Eric Auer]

Hi Gregg,

> What do these "Jack's Drivers" actually do?

RDISK: Ramdisk

UDVD2: CD / DVD low-level drivers, UDMA, cache via UHDD

UHDD: fast UDMA disk I/O, cache (harddisk/SSD/CD/DVD)

XMGR: XMS / HMA memory driver

All drivers are optimized for low consumption of
DOS memory, while they can use large amounts of
XMS memory (RDISK, UHDD) if the user wants that.

XMGR can be combined with UMBPCI and JEMM386 for
UMB / EMS and can improve stability compared to
HIMEMX XMS / HMA and JEMMEX (all-in-one memory).

The disk / optical drive drivers help to improve
I/O speed and support various controller types.

Regards, Eric


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Re: [Freedos-user] Some driver updates

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 3:52 AM, Gregg Eshelman via Freedos-user
 wrote:
>
> What do these "Jack's Drivers" actually do?

Waste everyone's time.

(Just use Linux Linux Linux Linux Linux ...!)


(further response to Eric Auer inlined below)


> On Friday, November 17, 2017, 1:59:11 AM MST, Eric Auer 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Rugxulo,

Saluton,

> you are not going to make Jack any more kind by publicly
> sharing all private email details of your private fight...

How is it "private"? He publicly posts all kinds of rude things. The
only reason we ever had "private" email is mostly because he didn't
want to stay subscribed to freedos-user all the time (too much noise).
Oh, and also because later he couldn't even do that at all. Hence the
whole nasty May 16 (2015) private email that I never responded to
(since he'd already said, falsely, that he would go away).

There was no personal rapport between us. We never discussed anything
but boring technical software. We never discussed religion or
politics, and we never had a falling out. It's an accident that I know
literally anything about his personal life since we never discussed
things like that either.

Sure, he's obsessively angry about you-know-what-worldwide-event (that
ended before he was born), but who cares? I'm too young to care (or
brood) about that. And it's not fair (obviously) to punish innocent
people (who also weren't born yet) with rage about that either. Not to
beat a dead horse, but yes, when he constantly harps on it (and even
directs such specific insults to me), it's very annoying and immature.

I'm trying to be somewhat discreet here (especially because it sounds
ludicrous to even believe it, and I don't want to rile anyone up), but
he definitely harbors resentment. And FreeDOS is not immune to such
members.

> Jack does update drivers because he is a perfectionist,

What good is a perfect painting if no one will see it? Why bake a
gourmet meal and then throw it away?

> but he is also known for not liking the FreeDOS community

Who did nothing bad to him.

> (including in particular you)

Even more ridiculous, I spent dozens of hours trying to help him, and
he knew it!

And all it takes to piss him off is literally one innocuous sentence
to someone else: "Mar-18 won't boot on my Lenovo desktop" (but here's
a URL to download that exact version yourself if you want to try it).

> so it is no surprise

Really?? You think the proper reaction to this dispute was, "Well,
obviously I have to go closed source and insult everyone. (Obviously!
Obviously! Yes sir, obviously!)"

> that he fails to make nice announcements, share sources, etc.
> ... which is why almost everybody here stopped to care.

He literally gains nothing by being closed source. If there is zero
advantage, then why do it?

I can only surmise one or two possible theories, but each one involves
disregarding his public excuse entirely (as a flatout lie) and
pretending that he "needs" it to be closed for xyz advantage. (Which
is a stretch, and I don't believe it's true, but I guess anything's
possible.)

> I, too found it a bit silly that there even was a license,
> and for a while even code, for preventing FreeDOS use of
> the drivers.

FreeDOS has been low on volunteers for a long time. But it works
remarkably well. I like it a lot, obviously. So it's strange to see
someone kick us while we're down, so to speak. I'd almost consider it
rude to suggest Linux on such a forum, but Linux is so popular and
does so much (and is Free and ...). Does he not realize that
decreasing DOS functionality pushes away the few that are left? Does
he want us to go to Linux or Windows or ... ? Doubt it, he despises
them, and yet he despises us too.

> The "hack" problem was for one of the closed
> source releases: Somebody used a debugger to deobfuscate
> that driver to remove machine code which had deliberately
> made the driver unusable on FreeDOS. You cannot STEAL free
> software indeed but you can upset authors by spoiling their
> ability to upset users :-p So yes, you can call it a HACK.
> Note that this was many years ago, long forgotten by many.

Was it ever made public? AFAIK, no. And BTW, even back then we still
had "old" versions of his drivers. Seriously, he's had hundreds of
versions of these by now (or at least several branches / renames).
It's not that hard to find some old version.

> So what should I say? We already know everything about the situation.

Obviously, we don't, because people keep repeating the same old
misinformation. I'm just saying, *to me*, as someone who is unfairly
in the middle of this (for no good reason), it's irrational. Jack
needs to wake up, grow up, get a grip.

> There is no point in reiterating again and again
> that fights between humans keep machines from enjoying nice
> drivers here, as this is not going to change that anyway.

Software is very logical, deterministic. The cpu doesn't randomly get
mad and stop working because you didn't compliment it enough.

Lo

Re: [Freedos-user] Some driver updates

[Tom Ehlert]

> What do these "Jack's Drivers" actually do?

nothing as they no longer work on FreeDOS.

btw: NEVER fullquote.

Tom


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Re: [Freedos-user] Some driver updates

[Rugxulo]

Hi again,

On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 1:47 AM, Rugxulo  wrote:
>
> 3). https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html
>
> "What is free software?
>
> 'Free software' means software that respects users' freedom and
> community. Roughly, it means that the users have the freedom to run,
> copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. Thus, 'free
> software' is a matter of liberty, not price."

"
To understand the concept, you should think of 'free' as in 'free
speech,' not as in 'free beer'. We sometimes call it 'libre software,'
borrowing the French or Spanish word for 'free' as in freedom, to show
we do not mean the software is gratis.

We campaign for these freedoms because everyone deserves them. With
these freedoms, the users (both individually and collectively) control
the program and what it does for them. When users don't control the
program, we call it a 'nonfree' or 'proprietary' program. The nonfree
program controls the users, and the developer controls the program;
this makes the program an instrument of unjust power.

The four essential freedoms

A program is free software if the program's users have the four
essential freedoms:

* The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose (freedom 0).

* The freedom to study how the program works, and change it so it does
your computing as you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a
precondition for this.

* The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).

* The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to others
(freedom 3). By doing this you can give the whole community a chance
to benefit from your changes. Access to the source code is a
precondition for this.

A program is free software if it gives users adequately all of these
freedoms. Otherwise, it is nonfree. While we can distinguish various
nonfree distribution schemes in terms of how far they fall short of
being free, we consider them all equally unethical.
"

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Re: [Freedos-user] Some driver updates

[Robert Riebisch]

Hi Rugxulo,

>> Jack does update drivers because he is a perfectionist,
> 
> What good is a perfect painting if no one will see it? Why bake a
> gourmet meal and then throw it away?

Maybe he's working on it for his own joy?

> I don't know, but I tried. I really tried to solve the situation. I
> know you think I'm being rude or pedantic, rehashing it over and over
> again, but he never goes away! He keeps saying he will, but he never
> does! Seriously, I'm not going to apologize to him when I did
> *nothing* to him! It's not like I'm asking *him* to grovel to us, but
> he needs to be honest (with himself and others)! Honesty is a virtue.
> Tell the truth, Jack! Stop portraying everyone else as an enemy when
> nobody did anything to you!

Why do you waste so much energy in trying to understand Jack?
You (or any other soul) probably never will, but does it *really* (!)
matter?

Rug, just be a gentleman and *respect* (= accept) his decisions, because
anything else will not lead to a healthy mind.

Do you know this short story?
"Two Monks and a Woman - a Zen Lesson"


Robert Riebisch
-- 
  +++ BTTR Software +++
 Home page:  http://www.bttr-software.de/
DOS ain't dead:  http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/

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Re: [Freedos-user] Some driver updates

[Rugxulo]

Hi, Robert,

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 9:19 AM, Robert Riebisch  wrote:
>
>>> Jack does update drivers because he is a perfectionist,
>>
>> What good is a perfect painting if no one will see it? Why bake a
>> gourmet meal and then throw it away?
>
> Maybe he's working on it for his own joy?

He doesn't know the meaning of joy.

Re-reading some of his old posts on BTTR from 2007 shows a *very*
angry person, and he has not improved since then. Thankfully, he went
away from there so we've had some good years without his drama.

>> I don't know, but I tried. I really tried to solve the situation. I
>> know you think I'm being rude or pedantic, rehashing it over and over
>> again, but he never goes away! He keeps saying he will, but he never
>> does! Seriously, I'm not going to apologize to him when I did
>> *nothing* to him! It's not like I'm asking *him* to grovel to us, but
>> he needs to be honest (with himself and others)! Honesty is a virtue.
>> Tell the truth, Jack! Stop portraying everyone else as an enemy when
>> nobody did anything to you!
>
> Why do you waste so much energy in trying to understand Jack?

He directly blames me for this fiasco (although it's clear he has
issues with many others).

It's also worse than that because he keeps constantly following us
around, re-announcing his "new" drivers, but he never admits his
mistakes! He keeps saying he'll go away, but he never does. It's not
like I'm pestering him!

It's not even open source, not even freeware, we can't even
redistribute it, and *then* he adds (yet another) OEM ban in the
software itself? Crazy! And he *still* wants attention.

> You (or any other soul) probably never will, but does it *really* (!) matter?

I can't fully understand him, no, but I have a good idea. Granted, he
could be full of it and carrying a hidden agenda, but the truth is
probably just mental illness. I tried to piece together the facts,
just to demonstrate to others exactly why this is so irrational.

Does it really matter? No, we don't need his drivers. I've half-joked
"just use GNU/Linux [+ DOSEMU2 + FreeDOS]!!" because that works as
well as isn't exactly weak or expensive or uncommon or non-free.

> Rug, just be a gentleman and *respect* (= accept) his decisions, because
> anything else will not lead to a healthy mind.

Respect his decisions?? It's not like he's a kind and rational person.
He doesn't have good reasons for his anger or his actions. All of his
anger is irrational nonsense, and we don't deserve a lick of it. He
gets nothing practical out of all of this drama, and his punishments
are for imaginary crimes.

He is not doing anyone any favors, it's all out of spite. Which is
ridiculous when the root cause is all his own fault.

It's *not* personal. He doesn't know me, and I don't know him. We are
perfect strangers. But yes, he does have an axe to grind.

> Do you know this short story?
> "Two Monks and a Woman - a Zen Lesson"

"All I did, was *reaching out my hand for peace* as I have done
*several times* before, but all I get from you [Jack] are *personal
insults*. So don't expect any help from me!" -- Robert Riebisch, 2007

Ten years ago! And we're still dealing with his insanity!

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Re: [Freedos-user] Some driver updates

[Jim Hall]

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 6:25 PM, Rugxulo  wrote:

 Jack does update drivers because he is a perfectionist,
>>>
>>> What good is a perfect painting if no one will see it? Why bake a
>>> gourmet meal and then throw it away?
>>
>> Maybe he's working on it for his own joy?
>
> He doesn't know the meaning of joy.
[..]

Reading this thread sucks any joy from me.

Why is this thread still alive?

Jack doesn't like FreeDOS, he doesn't release his drivers so that
FreeDOS users can use them - and Jack's drivers are proprietary, so we
cannot include them in FreeDOS anyway. We all know that.

Rugxulo, we know you and Jack don't like each other. Jack doesn't seem
to like me, either. That's fine. Jack doesn't like a lot of people.
But let it go, man. You said "He [Jack] is not doing anyone any
favors, it's all out of spite." So why bother with Jack, then? Forget
about him and let's move on.


Jim

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 6:25 PM, Rugxulo  wrote:
> Hi, Robert,
>
> On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 9:19 AM, Robert Riebisch  
> wrote:
>>
 Jack does update drivers because he is a perfectionist,
>>>
>>> What good is a perfect painting if no one will see it? Why bake a
>>> gourmet meal and then throw it away?
>>
>> Maybe he's working on it for his own joy?
>
> He doesn't know the meaning of joy.
>
> Re-reading some of his old posts on BTTR from 2007 shows a *very*
> angry person, and he has not improved since then. Thankfully, he went
> away from there so we've had some good years without his drama.
>
>>> I don't know, but I tried. I really tried to solve the situation. I
>>> know you think I'm being rude or pedantic, rehashing it over and over
>>> again, but he never goes away! He keeps saying he will, but he never
>>> does! Seriously, I'm not going to apologize to him when I did
>>> *nothing* to him! It's not like I'm asking *him* to grovel to us, but
>>> he needs to be honest (with himself and others)! Honesty is a virtue.
>>> Tell the truth, Jack! Stop portraying everyone else as an enemy when
>>> nobody did anything to you!
>>
>> Why do you waste so much energy in trying to understand Jack?
>
> He directly blames me for this fiasco (although it's clear he has
> issues with many others).
>
> It's also worse than that because he keeps constantly following us
> around, re-announcing his "new" drivers, but he never admits his
> mistakes! He keeps saying he'll go away, but he never does. It's not
> like I'm pestering him!
>
> It's not even open source, not even freeware, we can't even
> redistribute it, and *then* he adds (yet another) OEM ban in the
> software itself? Crazy! And he *still* wants attention.
>
>> You (or any other soul) probably never will, but does it *really* (!) matter?
>
> I can't fully understand him, no, but I have a good idea. Granted, he
> could be full of it and carrying a hidden agenda, but the truth is
> probably just mental illness. I tried to piece together the facts,
> just to demonstrate to others exactly why this is so irrational.
>
> Does it really matter? No, we don't need his drivers. I've half-joked
> "just use GNU/Linux [+ DOSEMU2 + FreeDOS]!!" because that works as
> well as isn't exactly weak or expensive or uncommon or non-free.
>
>> Rug, just be a gentleman and *respect* (= accept) his decisions, because
>> anything else will not lead to a healthy mind.
>
> Respect his decisions?? It's not like he's a kind and rational person.
> He doesn't have good reasons for his anger or his actions. All of his
> anger is irrational nonsense, and we don't deserve a lick of it. He
> gets nothing practical out of all of this drama, and his punishments
> are for imaginary crimes.
>
> He is not doing anyone any favors, it's all out of spite. Which is
> ridiculous when the root cause is all his own fault.
>
> It's *not* personal. He doesn't know me, and I don't know him. We are
> perfect strangers. But yes, he does have an axe to grind.
>
>> Do you know this short story?
>> "Two Monks and a Woman - a Zen Lesson"
>
> "All I did, was *reaching out my hand for peace* as I have done
> *several times* before, but all I get from you [Jack] are *personal
> insults*. So don't expect any help from me!" -- Robert Riebisch, 2007
>
> Ten years ago! And we're still dealing with his insanity!
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Some driver updates

[Ralf Quint]

On 11/17/2017 4:45 PM, Jim Hall wrote:
> [..]
>
> Reading this thread sucks any joy from me.
>
> Why is this thread still alive?
>
> Jack doesn't like FreeDOS, he doesn't release his drivers so that
> FreeDOS users can use them - and Jack's drivers are proprietary, so we
> cannot include them in FreeDOS anyway. We all know that.
>
> Rugxulo, we know you and Jack don't like each other. Jack doesn't seem
> to like me, either. That's fine. Jack doesn't like a lot of people.
> But let it go, man. You said "He [Jack] is not doing anyone any
> favors, it's all out of spite." So why bother with Jack, then? Forget
> about him and let's move on.
+1


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[Freedos-user] My experiences with Desmet

[Random Liegh via Freedos-user]

Hi, all

I have the zips I posted set up in a freedos vm.

My problem with being unable to compile outside of the desmet folder 
were solved by setting the variable "dinc" to where I am keeping the .h 
files (as well as adding my desmet folder to my %PATH%).


The version I'm using is 2.1, and I'm able to compile c88 and gen from 3.1.

I'm having no luck compiling 3.1's asm88, though. I doubt I will as 
there's errors with the code that both 2.1 and 3.1's compilers choke on.


I'm going to keep playing with 2.1, but I doubt I'll get very far.

Thanks!

-Random


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Re: [Freedos-user] My experiences with Desmet

[Ralf Quint]

On 11/17/2017 11:36 PM, Random Liegh via Freedos-user wrote:
> Hi, all
>
> I have the zips I posted set up in a freedos vm.
>
> My problem with being unable to compile outside of the desmet folder
> were solved by setting the variable "dinc" to where I am keeping the
> .h files (as well as adding my desmet folder to my %PATH%).
>
> The version I'm using is 2.1, and I'm able to compile c88 and gen from
> 3.1.
>
> I'm having no luck compiling 3.1's asm88, though. I doubt I will as
> there's errors with the code that both 2.1 and 3.1's compilers choke on.
>
> I'm going to keep playing with 2.1, but I doubt I'll get very far. 
I have been able to get in contact with Bill again and he is looking
into the latest set of source that he has worked on to recreate the 3.1L
and 3.1N versions from the 3.1h sources he got.
And there are several things in the 3.1h sources that won't compile with
a pre-3.1 compiler,as they use ANSI style for example.
And what is that version "2.1" you're working with? There is no such
version, it would be even older than the most common version 2.51...

Also, I have been working on the manual, doing an OCR on it and cutting
it into smaller pieces to work on it and I will bring that on par with
the stuff that Bill has...

Ralf


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