Re: gEDA-user: Symbol question - suggestions?
Den 2011-01-08 20:39:41 skrev John Doty : On Jan 8, 2011, at 12:28 PM, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: Den 2011-01-08 16:33:06 skrev John Doty : On Jan 7, 2011, at 4:06 AM, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: So, if I decide to use a 74-power symbol after all, is there any way I can design it making it automatically understand where it belongs, so I don't need to manually enter all those ”U1, U2, U3” und so weiter? If I wanted a lot of work, I could draw my components with a pen on a piece of paper and then scan the whole thing… Perhaps you want symbols with hidden power pins. They're not as flexible as putting in the power symbols explicitly, but they may be right for your application. In my applications, I often have multiple power nets, so it is essential to be explicit. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com You mean like the default symbols with lines like the following? net=Vcc:14 net=GND:7 Yes. John Doty Well, I think that would work best for what I'm doing. I think I will go that way, at least until I run into some kind of case where this does not work… Maybe my symbols won't be interesting then for anybody else than me, but it doesn't hurt to share them anyway, I guess. I could include some kind of warning, I guess. -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Symbol question - suggestions?
Den 2011-01-08 16:33:06 skrev John Doty : On Jan 7, 2011, at 4:06 AM, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: So, if I decide to use a 74-power symbol after all, is there any way I can design it making it automatically understand where it belongs, so I don't need to manually enter all those ”U1, U2, U3” und so weiter? If I wanted a lot of work, I could draw my components with a pen on a piece of paper and then scan the whole thing… Perhaps you want symbols with hidden power pins. They're not as flexible as putting in the power symbols explicitly, but they may be right for your application. In my applications, I often have multiple power nets, so it is essential to be explicit. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com You mean like the default symbols with lines like the following? net=Vcc:14 net=GND:7 -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Symbol question - suggestions?
Den 2011-01-07 14:58:59 skrev Martin Kupec : On Fri, Jan 07, 2011 at 12:06:12PM +0100, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: So, if I decide to use a 74-power symbol after all, is there any way I can design it making it automatically understand where it belongs, so I don't need to manually enter all those ”U1, U2, U3” und so weiter? You need to manualy assign number to that particular component. Either you can autonumber everything and than manualy renumber the 74-power (probably leaving holes in the numbering) or number the 74 and 74-power when you place it with the same number manualy and use autonumbering without the 'override' feature. If I wanted a lot of work, I could draw my components with a pen on a piece of paper and then scan the whole thing… Martin Kupec Sounds like a great source for errors. How do I prevent giving them the wrong numbers by accident (except trying extra hard when doing the manual job)? -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Symbol question - suggestions?
Den 2011-01-07 01:31:28 skrev Kai-Martin Knaak : Johnny Rosenberg wrote: First I manually set the ”device=” to match existing components, No need. The device attribute is not used by anything in the gschem to pcb work flow. then I added ”numslots=” to match. This is not useful. The slotting mechanism is only for copies of the same symbol in a physical component. But the pwr symbol is a _different_ symbol. Don't use slotting inside the pwr symbol. You can set numslots=0 if you like. But this is not required. There's no need to add any attributes to (my) 74_pwr.sym. Just put it on the schematic like it is. What am I missing? Should I edit the symbol itself or should I set something in the schema or what? Just make sure, that all the symbols that belong to a component all get the same refdes. You have to do this manually. The autonumber script has no idea which symbols belong to a group. Also make sure to not add the pwr symbol first. The reason is that this symbol does not include a footprint attribute. gsch2pcb only accepts footprint attributes from the first symbol in a set. If this symbol fails to provide a footprint, gsch2pcb gives up and issues an error. This is a long standing bug that was fixed just a few days ago. It was all so easy before, when I had the ”net=” thing in the component symbols, but someone said that that's not the way to go, for some reason. "Some reason" is schematic style seen from an advanced level of experience. Take it as good advice from the old boys. You may ignore it but don't complain if it this bites you later. ---<)kaimartin(>--- So, if I decide to use a 74-power symbol after all, is there any way I can design it making it automatically understand where it belongs, so I don't need to manually enter all those ”U1, U2, U3” und so weiter? If I wanted a lot of work, I could draw my components with a pen on a piece of paper and then scan the whole thing… -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Symbol question - suggestions?
Den 2011-01-05 17:30:12 skrev Bert Timmerman : Hi, -Original Message- From: geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org [mailto:geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org] On Behalf Of Stefan Salewski Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 5:23 PM To: gEDA user mailing list Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Symbol question - suggestions? On Wed, 2011-01-05 at 14:32 +0100, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: > > A single 74_pwr.sym can not work for 14 and 16 pin parts, so I > > really recommend to do not use a 74_pwr.sym at all, but one for 14, > > and one for > > 16 pins devices. I think I called my one at gedasymbols > > 74xx-14N-Pwr-1.sym. > > But the 74LV4066 is 14-pin with GND at 7 and Vcc at 14, just like an > ordinary 7400 and more. > The problem is: If you have a symbol called 74_pwr.sym people may use it -- some may use it for 14 pin devices, some may use it for 16 pin devices. You may be smart enough to use it correctly -- other may not always. If there are chances for confusion, then we should use more specific files names. JCL has a nice script generating power pins with pn numbers in the file/link name: http://www.luciani.org/geda/util/util-index.html#create-np-symbols Kind regards, Bert Timmerman. As I've said before, I'm a beginner at this. I just tried to actually use the 74_pwr.sym in an existing scheme, but I couldn't get it numbered automatically correctly. What am I missing? First I manually set the ”device=” to match existing components, then I added ”numslots=” to match. IN some cases it's 4 and in some cases 6 (NOT gates for example), but no matter what I did it was numbered wrong, with a higher number than the existing components. What am I missing? Should I edit the symbol itself or should I set something in the schema or what? It was all so easy before, when I had the ”net=” thing in the component symbols, but someone said that that's not the way to go, for some reason. At least it was very easy… -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Symbol question – suggestions?
Den 2011-01-05 17:22:39 skrev Stefan Salewski : On Wed, 2011-01-05 at 14:32 +0100, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: > A single 74_pwr.sym can not work for 14 and 16 pin parts, so I really > recommend to do not use a 74_pwr.sym at all, but one for 14, and one for > 16 pins devices. I think I called my one at gedasymbols > 74xx-14N-Pwr-1.sym. But the 74LV4066 is 14-pin with GND at 7 and Vcc at 14, just like an ordinary 7400 and more. The problem is: If you have a symbol called 74_pwr.sym people may use it -- some may use it for 14 pin devices, some may use it for 16 pin devices. You may be smart enough to use it correctly -- other may not always. If there are chances for confusion, then we should use more specific files names. Ok, then I misunderstood you. You only mean that the name of the symbol should be more specific, nothing more than that? Well, I agree. -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Symbol question – suggestions?
Den 2011-01-05 16:17:57 skrev Karl Hammar : Johnny Rosenberg: Maybe this is in the wiki somewhere and I just missed it, but what are the possible text strings for pintype? Since it is just a text field there is "no" limitation for what you could type in there. So far I've seen in, out, oc, pas. Are there more? Find gnet-drc2.scm with $ locate gnet-drc2.scm /var/home/karl/Net/git/gaf/gnetlist/scheme/gnet-drc2.scm /var/home/karl/Net/git/peter-b/gnetlist/scheme/gnet-drc2.scm /var/local/share/gEDA/scheme/gnet-drc2.scm $ and look into it $ grep -A15 '^; Pintype definitions.' /var/local/share/gEDA/scheme/gnet-drc2.scm ; Pintype definitions. Overwrite previous definitions, because the backend depends on them. (define unknown 0) (define in 1) (define out 2) (define io 3) (define oc 4) (define oe 5) (define pas 6) (define tp 7) (define tri 8) (define clk 9) (define pwr 10) (define undefined 11) (define pintype-names (list "unknown" "in" "out" "io" "oc" "oe" "pas" "tp" "tri" "clk" "pwr" "unconnected")) (define pintype-full-names (list "unknown" "input" "output" "input/output" "open collector" "open emitter" "passive" "totem-pole" "tristate" "clock" "power" "unconnected")) $ I find 10 different values drc2 cares about. From what I have guessed: . digital pins: in, out, io . driver pins: oc, oe, tp, tri . other:pas (the only one for analog things), pwr, clk Do the gEDA software use them for something or is it just for the user? As I found out in [1], the only users for that field is drc2 and the user, plus possible third party programs. drc2 use the attribute to tell the user about "strange" connections. Look at the source or e.g. [2,3] for more info. So the bottom line is that I should keep to those above and don't make my own… -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Symbol question – suggestions?
Den 2011-01-04 21:47:59 skrev Stefan Salewski : On Tue, 2011-01-04 at 21:14 +0100, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: comment=Use 74_pwr.sym for supply I wrote it some months ago... A single 74_pwr.sym can not work for 14 and 16 pin parts, so I really recommend to do not use a 74_pwr.sym at all, but one for 14, and one for 16 pins devices. I think I called my one at gedasymbols 74xx-14N-Pwr-1.sym. But the 74LV4066 is 14-pin with GND at 7 and Vcc at 14, just like an ordinary 7400 and more. Does the 74-series version differ in layout from 4066? May be. Maybe. I just did a quick search and found that MAXIM has two versions of their MAX4066: One with 14 pins and one with 16 pins. http://html.alldatasheet.com/html-pdf/73292/MAXIM/4066/123/1/4066.html But as far as I have seen, the 74LV4066 comes with 14 pins only. I am not sure I got the pin numbers right (or how to use pinseq vs pinnumber). It may be better to be sure. Well, I am sure which pin is what, I am not sure I got it right in my symbol though, but I can test it, don't worry… :) For pin type you may simple use "pas" for passive, as in resistors. The default 4066 symbol used ”pas” for the switch thing and ”in” for the ”enable” thing. I guess I'll do the same then, since some people already suggested that. Thanks for input and suggestions, everyone! -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Symbol question – suggestions?
Den 2011-01-04 21:48:55 skrev : That chip is a quad analog switch, right? I would set the pin types to "pas" because they aren't digital pins at all. The enable pin is definitely of type "in". Maybe this is in the wiki somewhere and I just missed it, but what are the possible text strings for pintype? So far I've seen in, out, oc, pas. Are there more? Do the gEDA software use them for something or is it just for the user? -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Stephan Boettcher wrote: "Johnny Rosenberg" writes: I created this symbol, it's the 74-series version of the 4066 (4 bilateral switches), called 744066 (as in 74LV4066, for example): The documentation of the symbol can be found at http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn74lv4066a.pdf I am not sure I got the pin numbers right (or how to use pinseq vs pinnumber). The slot attribute does not get promoted. Why can't I promote an attribute after placement from the (ee) Element attribute edit window? I am also not sure about the pin type of ICs like this one. It's not really just ”in” and ”out”, is it? I used ”in” and ”out” anyway, since I couldn't come up with anything better, and I called the third one ”en” as in ”enable” but I am not sure about that one either. pintype has a limited set of valid values. The E pin is an input so it's pintype=in, I guess. -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Symbol question – suggestions?
I created this symbol, it's the 74-series version of the 4066 (4 bilateral
switches), called 744066 (as in 74LV4066, for example):
v 20100214 2
B 200 200 800 600 3 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1
T 700 0 8 8 0 0 0 0 1
slot=1
T 200 2300 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
numslots=4
T 200 1500 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
slotdef=1:1,2,13
T 200 1700 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
slotdef=2:3,4,5
T 200 1900 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
slotdef=3:8,9,6
T 200 2100 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
slotdef=4:11,10,12
L 300 700 450 700 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 450 600 750 700 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 750 700 900 700 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
T 200 4000 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
device=744066
P 0 700 200 700 1 0 0
{
T 150 750 5 8 1 1 0 6 1
pinnumber=1
T 150 750 5 8 0 1 0 6 1
pinseq=1
T 250 700 9 8 0 1 0 1 1
pinlabel=Y
T 150 650 5 8 0 1 0 8 1
pintype=in
}
P 0 300 200 300 1 0 0
{
T 150 350 5 8 1 1 0 6 1
pinnumber=13
T 150 350 5 8 0 1 0 6 1
pinseq=3
T 250 300 9 8 0 1 0 1 1
pinlabel=E
T 150 250 5 8 0 1 0 8 1
pintype=en
}
P 1000 700 1200 700 1 0 1
{
T 1050 750 5 8 1 1 0 0 1
pinnumber=2
T 1050 750 5 8 0 1 0 0 1
pinseq=2
T 950 700 9 8 0 1 0 7 1
pinlabel=Z
T 1050 650 5 8 0 1 0 2 1
pintype=out
}
T 200 1100 8 10 1 1 0 0 1
refdes=U?
T 200 0 8 8 1 1 0 0 1
footprint=DIP14
T 200 3800 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
description=4 bilateral switches
T 200 3600 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
documentation=http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn74lv4066a.pdf
T 200 3000 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
author=Johnny Rosenberg – johnny.a.rosenb...@gmail.com
T 200 2800 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
dist-license=GPL
T 200 2600 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
use-license=Unlimited
T 200 900 8 10 1 1 0 0 1
value=744066
T 200 3400 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
comment=Use 74_pwr.sym for supply
T 200 3200 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
comment=This symbol was designed according to IEC 60617-12
The documentation of the symbol can be found at
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn74lv4066a.pdf
I am not sure I got the pin numbers right (or how to use pinseq vs
pinnumber).
I am also not sure about the pin type of ICs like this one. It's not
really just ”in” and ”out”, is it? I used ”in” and ”out” anyway, since I
couldn't come up with anything better, and I called the third one ”en” as
in ”enable” but I am not sure about that one either. This is maybe not a
symbol question but rather a question about the IC itself, so maybe this
is way off topic…
Suggestions?
--
Kind regards
Johnny Rosenberg
___
geda-user mailing list
geda-user@moria.seul.org
http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Voltage symbols and Spice
Den 2011-01-03 23:37:23 skrev John Doty : On Jan 3, 2011, at 3:31 PM, Oliver King-Smith wrote: I am trying to use the "generic-power.sym" in my schematic. I am setting the net attribute to 5VA (for 5V analog). I was hoping this would make all the nets with such a symbol. When I try to run gnetlist with the spice-sdb backend I get this error printing out several times. Got an invalid net= attrib [net=5VA] Missing : in net= attrib The nets don't appear connected in the spice file. Do folks have any suggestions on how to solve this? Oliver You must include the pin number in a net attribute, e.g.: net=5VA:1 John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com A bit off topic, but is it recommended to call something ”5VA” in this case? Couldn't it be confused with the fact that VA means Volt-Amperes, which is what you measure apparent power in? -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2011-01-02 20:51:04 skrev kai-martin knaak : Johnny Rosenberg wrote: Because the footprint information can be scanned at a glance in the schematic. The footprint needs attention just like the value or the refdes. So it is convenient to have it visible by default. If I don't want to see the footprint attributes in finished design I can still hide them with "Hide specific text" in the attributes menu. But if it is invisible, won't it show up with ”Show specific text” in the same menu? Typically, I need to look at footprints during design. Hide them for beauty is at a later stage. So I like to have them visible by default. Maybe off topic, but really, why a license at all, when I really don't care what people do with the symbols anyway? To the law there is nothing like "no license" in a literal sense. By the way, I was searching for information about the sym file format, but I didn't find much. (...) Can anyone point me to some place where I can learn everything about this? see http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:file_format_spec This page links to all the "official" documentation: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:documentation ---<)kaimartin(>--- Thanks for the very useful interesting links. -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2011-01-02 13:13:55 skrev kai-martin knaak :
Johnny Rosenberg wrote:
I didn't add or modify any invisible text except those very
unnecessary (?) author- and license lines. I guess I should
remove them entirely.
License lines are a necessity for sharing. Else, you'd have to
put some license information in the environment of the share.
* the footprint attribute is invisible
Didn't change that either. Why would you like them visible?
Because the footprint information can be scanned at a glance
in the schematic. The footprint needs attention just like the
value or the refdes. So it is convenient to have it visible
by default. If I don't want to see the footprint attributes in
finished design I can still hide them with "Hide specific text"
in the attributes menu.
But if it is invisible, won't it show up with ”Show specific text” in the
same menu?
In addition, the footprint provides a
hint what to look for in the layout when I read the schematic.
Else, a SO23 transistor looks the same in the schematic as a
TO247 with cooler.
200? Strange. Strange. Looks like 300 to me, except the output pin,
which indeed is 200. I didn't change that from the original symbol
either, though.
"200" was just a typo by me...
Somewhere in the documentation pin length 300 is recommended. However,
nobody could give a reason for this value when I asked on this list.
Since pins cannot be differentiated in print from nets, I decided to
opt for short pins in my symbols. That is, 100 units, or sometimes even
zero.
Well, I agree that short pins are better, I will change them in all the
symbols.
If it's not too much work, could you modify the 7400 symbol to your
likings and then send it back so I can modify the other symbols
accordingly?
See below.
Thanks.
Except for the license, the symbol would fit into my collection of
symbols in gedasymbols.org. I prefer the GPL as distribution license.
Maybe off topic, but really, why a license at all, when I really don't
care what people do with the symbols anyway?
As John Doty already pointed out, there is no hard right or wrong
with many design decisions. I am, of course, biased :-)
Well, I asked for suggestions and I got suggestions. So far so good. :)
By the way, I was searching for information about the sym file format, but
I didn't find much. I would like to know what all the numbers mean, for
example in lines like this:
”V 850 500 50 6 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1”
The four first is of course coordinates, and there seems to be numbers for
thickness and colour, but I changed a few of them with no result at all as
far as I could see. Can anyone point me to some place where I can learn
everything about this?
/
v 20100214 2
B 200 200 600 600 3 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1
T 500 500 9 20 1 0 0 4 1
&
T 400 4100 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
device=7400
T 700 0 8 8 0 0 0 0 1
slot=1
T 400 2400 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
numslots=4
T 400 1600 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
slotdef=1:1,2,3
T 400 1800 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
slotdef=2:4,5,6
T 400 2000 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
slotdef=3:9,10,8
T 400 2200 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
slotdef=4:12,13,11
V 850 500 50 6 0 0 0 -1 -1 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1
P 900 500 900 500 1 0 1
{
T 850 600 5 8 1 1 0 0 1
pinnumber=3
T 850 600 5 8 0 1 0 0 1
pinseq=3
T 750 500 9 8 0 1 0 7 1
pinlabel=Y
T 850 450 5 8 0 1 0 2 1
pintype=out
}
P 200 300 100 300 1 0 1
{
T 150 350 5 8 1 1 0 6 1
pinnumber=2
T 150 350 5 8 0 1 0 6 1
pinseq=2
T 250 300 9 8 0 1 0 1 1
pinlabel=B
T 150 250 5 8 0 1 0 8 1
pintype=in
}
P 200 700 100 700 1 0 1
{
T 150 750 5 8 1 1 0 6 1
pinnumber=1
T 150 750 5 8 0 1 0 6 1
pinseq=1
T 250 700 9 8 0 1 0 1 1
pinlabel=A
T 150 650 5 8 0 1 0 8 1
pintype=in
}
T 200 1100 8 10 1 1 0 0 1
refdes=U?
T 200 0 8 8 1 1 0 0 1
footprint=DIP14
T 400 3900 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
description=4 NAND gates with 2 inputs
T 400 3700 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
documentation=http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/sn74hc00.pdf
T 400 3100 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
author=Johnny Rosenberg – johnny.a.rosenb...@gmail.com
T 400 2900 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
dist-license=None – do whatever you want, I don't care
T 400 2700 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
use-license=unlimited
T 200 900 8 10 1 1 0 0 1
value=7400
T 400 3500 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
comment=use 74_pwr.sym for supply
T 400 3300 5 8 0 0 0 0 1
comment=this symbol was designed according to IEC-(INSERT SPECIFIC NORM)
\----
Thanks for all your inputs!
--
Kind regards
Johnny Rosenberg
___
geda-user mailing list
geda-user@moria.seul.org
http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2011-01-01 18:42:49 skrev kai-martin knaak : Johnny Rosenberg wrote: here's a new try, which I tested several times: http://ubuntuone.com/p/W8l/ I just looked at 7400-IEC-1.sym. Some comments: * some lines of invisible text is not on 100 grid. I took a look myself and you're right. I didn't make those though, since I just modified an existing gate, so I guess they are not on ”100 grid” in the original symbol files either, but I didn't check that yet. I didn't add or modify any invisible text except those very unnecessary (?) author- and license lines. I guess I should remove them entirely. * the footprint attribute is invisible Didn't change that either. Why would you like them visible? * pin labels are invisible * if pin labels were visible, they'd collide with the box * pin length is 200 units. IMHO, these lengthy pins result in awkward artwork, when there is little space on the canvas. This is of course a matter of taste. 200? Strange. Strange. Looks like 300 to me, except the output pin, which indeed is 200. I didn't change that from the original symbol either, though. Actually, the only thing I changed was the shape of the box, and I added an & sign inside… * the slot attribute is invisible. I like to make it visible, so it is explicitly shown on the schematic and can be edited on mouse click. * there is no value attribute --> this attribute is used in the bill of materials * the visible string 7400 is simple text. That way, it cannot be edited in the schematic. In a real circuit it should read 74HC00 or whatever flavor of TTL logic should be used. * the supply nets are implicitly given with the net attribute. IMHO, this approach hides information that should be visible in the schematic. I prefer to put the power pins in a dedicated 74er power symbol. * suggestion: If the symbol complies to a specific IEC norm. How about a comment, that refers to the specific norm? * what is the intended use of the attribute device=7400 ? Don't know, I didn't add that, so it is probably the same as the original symbol. ---<)kaimartin(>--- If it's not too much work, could you modify the 7400 symbol to your likings and then send it back so I can modify the other symbols accordingly? -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2011-01-01 12:55:41 skrev Florian E. Teply : On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 12:01:36 +0100 "Johnny Rosenberg" wrote: Den 2011-01-01 03:06:21 skrev kai-martin knaak : > Johnny Rosenberg wrote: > >> uploaded them here (temporarily): >> http://ubuntuone.com/p/W5T/ > > I just receive this message: > Could not locate object > > ---<)kaimartin(>--- Something went wrong yesterday, I don't know exactly what, but here's a new try, which I tested several times: http://ubuntuone.com/p/W8l/ * INFORMATION FOR OPERA USERS ONLY (at least 11.00 build 1156): * There seems to be some kind of bug with Opera and .tar.bz2 files: Opera added 23 bytes to the file for some reason. If you insist in using Opera for this, you need to remove the first 15 bytes and the last 8 bytes of the file. The correct size of the file is 2335 Bytes. You can use ghex2 for editing the file. The file should start with ”BZh61AY&SY” and end with ”bb...@”. * It seems to me that this is indeed not an opera-specific problem: also with wget, opera 10.63 and dillo this turns out to happen, arora as well as ancient NCSA Mosaic just work fine on that. Funny thing is that only opera and arora seem to come up with the intended filename 74-IEC.tar.bz2 ... Shall i put it up someplace else? HTH, Florian I asked the people at the Opera channel (IRC) at OperaNet (Europe) and they found out what happened. The server compressed the file again ”without telling Opera”, they said, so when downloading it with Opera you really get a ”.tar.bz2.gz” rather than just a ”.tar.bz2”, so you need to add ”.gz” to the file name, then extract the file twice… Anyway, I intend to add them at http://www.gedasymbols.org/ myself (asking for an account and all that), I just thought that someone could take a look at them since this is the very first time I create any symbols. Sure, I just edited existing symbols so I guess not much could have gone wrong, just wanted to be as sure as possible. I have tried a few of them and they seemed to work, but I didn't do anything advanced with them. -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2011-01-01 03:06:21 skrev kai-martin knaak : Johnny Rosenberg wrote: uploaded them here (temporarily): http://ubuntuone.com/p/W5T/ I just receive this message: Could not locate object ---<)kaimartin(>--- Something went wrong yesterday, I don't know exactly what, but here's a new try, which I tested several times: http://ubuntuone.com/p/W8l/ * INFORMATION FOR OPERA USERS ONLY (at least 11.00 build 1156): * There seems to be some kind of bug with Opera and .tar.bz2 files: Opera added 23 bytes to the file for some reason. If you insist in using Opera for this, you need to remove the first 15 bytes and the last 8 bytes of the file. The correct size of the file is 2335 Bytes. You can use ghex2 for editing the file. The file should start with ”BZh61AY&SY” and end with ”bb...@”. * -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2010-12-31 22:11:09 skrev Stephan Boettcher : "Johnny Rosenberg" writes: Den 2010-12-31 16:31:42 skrev Stephan Boettcher : "Johnny Rosenberg" writes: No. That's the wrong conclusion. Well, we'll see what will happen. I am still not 100% sure how to create symbols in the first place, so I guess things will move very slowly to begin with… Maybe your time is better invested by using a small FPGA for whatever you want to build, and learn Verilog to express the logic. Hm… searched the web a bit for Verilog and FPGA, so now I know a little (very little) about it, at least. Seems like I already have a Verilog compiler installed on my system (iverilog) and there are manpages for it. Not sure, however, how to connect the FPGA thing to my computer to program it (I'm on Ubuntu 10.10). What do I need to do that? Not that I intend to do it at the moment, just curious. For our DAQ systems we recently use an ARM7 chip LPC2148 as frontend to an Altera Cyclon 3 FPGA (144pins, 3C25). This is not the smallest project size I can think off. The boards are 106x70 mm². The ARM7 has a USB interface. The FPGA then drives a set of ADCs, filters the data, triggers, and formats the data through some FIFOs to the ARM7 and from there either via USB to the host or via SPI on a uSDcard. On power up, the ARM7 reads the FPGA configuration from a flash and feeds it to the FPGA (passive serial mode). Previusly, we had a Cyclon2 chip connected via a parallel port. You need four pins to program an Altera in passive serial mode (SCLK, DATA, nCONFIG, CONF_DONE). Or use JTAG. With the parallel port I considered writing a kernel driver, but we still toggle the bits from user space, three syscalls ber bit, but that adds up to only a few tens of seconds. And when all is debugged and supposed to work without a computer, there are little EEPROM chips that can feed the configuration into the FPGA. I did not do that for 10 years, so I don't know how easy it is to get those burned. So, it really depends how complex your circuit is, and how it's going to be used in the end. But the effort to design populate and debug an eurocard full of 74xx is daunting too. Depends how much fun can have from learning such stuff. A deadline does not seem to be your problem. Well, learning is always fun, but there is so much else I want to do that is closer to my main interest (as a musician and ”recording engineer”) See, it depends. How many 74xx parts will your circuit need? Oh, not many, I am not sure yet, but it's a small project. I just thought that it would be nice with those symbols for future projects, not only this one. so even if there is no deadline, I can't spend all my time on it anyway. Sure, else you'd not say "... will move very slowly to begin with…" And I have a wife… :D Oh yes, that is a drain on resources .. Happy new year! Happy new year you too! We have had a new year for about 42 minutes here… -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2010-12-31 17:21:45 skrev JohnLM : I actually use "boxy" symbols quite a lot. Well more on paper or with software that has them anyway. Well since I (would) use them myself, I'd have no big problem making those. I'd go for whole set of lights and make few most used 74xx heavies. I have been doing a few from the 74 series tonight, those I think I might use some time… I made the following 12 symbols by just modifying the existing default symbols, giving them new names: 7400-IEC-1.sym 7401-IEC-1.sym 7402-IEC-1.sym 7404-IEC-1.sym 7405-IEC-1.sym 7408-IEC-1.sym 7409-IEC-1.sym 7414-IEC-1.sym 7432-IEC-1.sym 7486-IEC-1.sym 74132-IEC-1.sym 74266-IEC-1.sym I ignored all gates with more than 2 inputs (does anyone use them anyway?), and more complex things like 74160, since they look the same in IEC versions anyway, don't they? If anyone want to see them and look for things that are not quite right, I uploaded them here (temporarily): http://ubuntuone.com/p/W5T/ It's a compressed tarball called ”74-IEC.tar.bz2”, containing the 12 symbols. -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2010-12-31 16:31:42 skrev Stephan Boettcher : "Johnny Rosenberg" writes: No. That's the wrong conclusion. Well, we'll see what will happen. I am still not 100% sure how to create symbols in the first place, so I guess things will move very slowly to begin with… Maybe your time is better invested by using a small FPGA for whatever you want to build, and learn Verilog to express the logic. Hm… searched the web a bit for Verilog and FPGA, so now I know a little (very little) about it, at least. Seems like I already have a Verilog compiler installed on my system (iverilog) and there are manpages for it. Not sure, however, how to connect the FPGA thing to my computer to program it (I'm on Ubuntu 10.10). What do I need to do that? Not that I intend to do it at the moment, just curious. Depends how much fun can have from learning such stuff. A deadline does not seem to be your problem. Well, learning is always fun, but there is so much else I want to do that is closer to my main interest (as a musician and ”recording engineer”) so even if there is no deadline, I can't spend all my time on it anyway. And I have a wife… :D (It should be possible to draw a gschem schematic, export a verilog netlist and upload that to the FPGA too, for parts of the circuit you feel more comfortable, but then you'd need to do both, symbols and Verilog :-) -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2010-12-31 15:40:39 skrev John Griessen : On 12/31/2010 08:02 AM, Stephen Trier wrote: I was wondering whether there would be a demand for this style of logic symbol in gschem. Most logic designers now use verilog blocks for such logic and never even make a diagram with visual cues like IEEE symbols have. In the US or in the whole world? As I am not a logic designer, but rather a guitar player, I guess I could use whatever symbols I like, right…? ;P Since much low level logic is synthesized for chips or FPGAs these days, and there is often a way to probe signals anywhere, the meaning conveyed by control wires as in up, down, clr, is only made more obvious when using probes or verilog testbench code. Making function visually obvious seems to be skipped since just after IEEE symbols were proposed in the 70's. Except for TIs discrete logic parts. John -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2010-12-31 15:03:13 skrev Stephan Boettcher : "Johnny Rosenberg" writes: Well, I guess that I need to make my own symbols then, Yes. Will that be generic, light logic symbols, or 74xx series symbols? I don't know, maybe 74xx series, but I don't think I will just sit down and try to make them all, just the most common ones that I need and when I need them. I will probably also include some of the 40xxx series ones, I guess, since the symbols themselves look the same anyway. and that it's no point sharing them since I am the only one who use them. No. That's the wrong conclusion. Well, we'll see what will happen. I am still not 100% sure how to create symbols in the first place, so I guess things will move very slowly to begin with… -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2010-12-31 13:20:07 skrev Stephan Boettcher : "Johnny Rosenberg" writes: Den 2010-12-31 02:58:36 skrev Stephan Boettcher : kai-martin knaak writes: Johnny Rosenberg wrote: __ | | | & |o––– |__| Ah, those box shaped symbols. Well, I don't like them. So none of them in my lib... Those were invented by bureaucrats at a time when pen plotters had difficulties plotting circles. So I am the only one that use still them? maybe :-) And why did they use a small circle for the NOT function at the output if the plotters had difficulties plotting them? Now that you mention it, the symbol is suppsed to look like this: __ | | | |\ | & |-––– | | |__| I've seen those too, but they are not the same as those I learned at school and have used all my life. Well, I guess that I need to make my own symbols then, and that it's no point sharing them since I am the only one who use them. Thanks for all the input. -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2010-12-31 02:58:36 skrev Stephan Boettcher : kai-martin knaak writes: Johnny Rosenberg wrote: __ | | | & |o––– |__| Ah, those box shaped symbols. Well, I don't like them. So none of them in my lib... Those were invented by bureaucrats at a time when pen plotters had difficulties plotting circles. So I am the only one that use still them? And why did they use a small circle for the NOT function at the output if the plotters had difficulties plotting them? They seems to be used pretty much in my country anyway. I used them for eight years at a company a few years back. -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: European symbols?
Den 2010-12-31 01:37:50 skrev Stefan Salewski : On Fri, 2010-12-31 at 01:06 +0100, kai-martin knaak wrote: Johnny Rosenberg wrote: > I looked at the gEDA symbols site, but it was very hard to find > anything useful in this matter, since there was no ”preview” thing > involved as far as I can see. You may point your browser to http://gedasymbols.org This is a website dedicated to symbols, footprints and other geda related stuff contributed by users. It presents previews of symbols and footprints on mouse click. > Is there a complete set of symbols like the default one, but with IEC > symbols instead or do I need to make them all by myself? I tend to draw my symbols the way they were taught in German university courses. So they are likely IEC compliant, but no guarantee. > I can't be the only European user of this program, can I…? Surely, you are not! :-) ---<)kaimartin(>--- I think he was asking about these rectangular boxes, as used in german textbooks, Tietze/Schenk or Reichardt/Schwarz. Indeed I have not seen these on your page or gedasymbols at all, so you may give the full link... I don't know about those ”german textbooks”, but they are rectangular indeed. I'll try to draw an NAND gate below, but you need a font like Free Mono, Liberation Mono, Courier or similar to view it right: __ | | | & |o––– |__| And a NOR gate would look like this: __ | | | ≥1 |o––– |__| -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: European symbols?
There are many usable symbols installed by default, but a lot of them, like all the 74-series symbols seems to follow some american (I guess) standard rather than IEC or whatever I'm used to. You know those boxes with characters in them, for example a square box with an & sign in it for an AND gate. I looked at the gEDA symbols site, but it was very hard to find anything useful in this matter, since there was no ”preview” thing involved as far as I can see. Sorry for bad English… Is there a complete set of symbols like the default one, but with IEC symbols instead or do I need to make them all by myself? I can't be the only European user of this program, can I…? Regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
2010/12/29 Levente Kovacs : > On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 22:01:43 +0100 > "Johnny Rosenberg" > wrote: > >> Hm… I start to regret that I asked the question in the first place… > > We are very good at making wars. We make wars on "what kind of fileformat to > use", "what kind of documentation tool to use", "what is gschem used for" etc. > > So don't regret it, it is getting common. > > Lets make a vi vs. emacs war! Yes, that's do that! He he he… Or maybe not… I used Emacs a lot in the early 1990's, especially for IRC and playing MUD an things like that, but these days I don't use any of them. I found that with a few plugins and some configuration, gedit does everything I need a text editor for, so far at least. Well, off topic in any case. Johnny Rosenberg > > Levente > > -- > Levente Kovacs > http://levente.logonex.eu > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user > ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
Den 2010-12-25 22:12:40 skrev Stephan Boettcher : "Johnny Rosenberg" writes: Hm… I start to regret that I asked the question in the first place… Please don't. Well, I guess it's not regrettable anyway; the question is already asked and I think I also got a couple of great answers, thank you all for that. After being a member of this list for only a couple of days it already feels like this is a good place to ask questions. Quick and helpful answers are always appreciated. I am a member of quite a few lists by now, like Ubuntu, a couple of OpenOffice.org lists, GIMP, EasyTAG and more. Some of them are very dead, but this one seems to be alive, which is nice. I know I am probably the ”newest” guy here so I don't think that anyone will listen to me that much, but can we at least keep the ”wars” in separate threads? And thanks again, all of you, for many great answers. -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
Den 2010-12-25 20:59:14 skrev John Doty : On Dec 25, 2010, at 12:49 PM, DJ Delorie wrote: John Doty writes: "Often", perhaps, but not usually. No matter how you slice it, the most common way to use such a symbol and its corresponding physical representation is as a component on a circuit board or in an IC. Maybe for you. Your opinion doesn't change the statistics. gEDA is most often used to design circuit boards. The tyranny of the majority, again. Yes it is. It is extremely important that gEDA remain the excellent tool for these jobs that it is. Extremely? Not at all. It's only as as important as the people willing to work on it make it. Maybe to you gEDA is just one of the crowd of hobbyist EDA tools. It is much more to me. They won't if the attitude of "I don't care to know about any flow except pcb, and all I want is my version of the pcb flow" isn't vigorously opposed. You've yet to prove that that attitude actually exists. I'm still cleaning up from the mess created when the default attribute promotion policy was changed a couple of years ago, apparently to better serve the perceived needs of small scale pcb projects. It's easy to fix in gafrc, but you had to know to do it before populating your schems with unwanted promoted footprints. Some developer just wasn't thinking about the breadth of the application space. Yup, we're tyrants because we want to make it easier for 99% of our users to get their jobs done. But you aren't. A special purpose pcb-centric symbol/footprint library would be a fine substitute for the eclectic default library. For those users who would do better with it, it would be "here, install this". But nobody's done that. Changing the default library piecemeal won't solve the problem, and will break things. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com Hm… I start to regret that I asked the question in the first place… -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Creating new symbols
Den 2010-12-24 22:16:18 skrev Stephan Boettcher : "Johnny Rosenberg" writes: At http://www.geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:gsch2pcb_tutorial the following is written: ”When all the edits are done, it's very important when editing symbols to do a Edit→Symbol Translate to zero before saving. Do that and then save the symbol with File→Save Page” My problem is that there is no ”Save Page” in the File menu. File->Save But first it is important to recognize that there is a difference between editing a symbol, and editing a schematic with a symbal instance and instance attributes. Until now we were talking about editing a symbol instance in a schematic. To make a new symbol version, you must open the symbol file itself. You can do that by selcting the symbol in a schematic and do Hierachy->Down Symbol (Shift-H s) You will discover, that the symbol still has no value attibute. You can add it in the symbol file. The value attribute must be promoted when the symbol is instantiated. There are (not so?) complex rules which attibutes get promoted, and which not. I think, a visible, unattached attribute, called _value_ will be promoted. N.B., this is a dark side of gschem in my oppinion. Which attibutes get promoted should be defined in the symbols, independently of visibility or any strange configuration settings. After adding the attibute, "value=?" with proper placement and alignment, you can do File->Save_As to save the new symbol in your own symbol collection. Edit->Symbol_Translate will probably not be required, if you just do a minor modification to an existing symbol. Then you go back to your schematic, Hierachy->Up (Shift-H u) and delete the old symbol instance, and replace it with an instance of your own. How to reload the available symbols from a running gschem? I don't know. Usually I restart gschem, to reread the available symbols. You'll first need to add the location of your own symbol collection to the search path in .gafrc or something. Thanks for the information, I'll try that later; hopefully it will work. By the way, when you say ”Shift-H”, you really mean Shift+h, or just H, right? Because H is already ”shifted”, and I guess you don't mean Shift+Shift+h (which is a possible key combination since there are two shift keys on at least my keyboard). Well, I guess I can test that myself, on the other hand… -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Creating new symbols
At http://www.geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:gsch2pcb_tutorial the following is written: ”When all the edits are done, it's very important when editing symbols to do a Edit→Symbol Translate to zero before saving. Do that and then save the symbol with File→Save Page” My problem is that there is no ”Save Page” in the File menu. -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
Den 2010-12-24 13:37:34 skrev Stefan Salewski : On Fri, 2010-12-24 at 12:43 +0100, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: Now I'd like to save my ”new” symbol somewhere. There is not really a reason to save it, because you have only moved the text around and modified the alignment mark. OK, added a value attribute. For the current schematic, you can simple make Copies of this symbol, you only have to change the value if necessary. Saving symbols or making your own collection is more useful for greater changes, i.e heavy symbols with footprint attribute and ordering number... For me, remembering where I have stored such a custom symbol is not easy, so sometimes I simple copy symbols from existing schematics. For me, as a beginner, I think there are reasons. One of them is to learn more about how things work. But your reply is also valuable information for me, and I appreciate that too. -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
Den 2010-12-24 13:20:39 skrev Peter Clifton : On Fri, 2010-12-24 at 12:22 +0100, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: I tried that now,since you suggested it. Unfortunately it doesn't work like I expected: Left seems to mean right, right seems to mean left, upper seems to mean lower and lower seems to mean upper. Upper left seems to be default and everything else takes the text further away from where I want it. When you click on the text, and are zoomed in, you will see a little x mark. That is the text origin. It could be that the text was initially rotated. Select the text, and rotate it - either with the edit menu, or "er" short-cut. Mirrored is also a possibility. "ei". You should be able to get it back to a sane state where the text anchor placement matches the description in the edit box. Actually I just misunderstood the functionality. I though that ”upper left” means that the text appears above the little ”x” and to the left of it, but it seems like ”upper left” is the location of the little ”x” rather than the text itself, so ”upper left” seems to mean that the little ”x” is above the text and to the left of it. Now that I know that, I managed to solve my problem. Thanks all! -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
Den 2010-12-24 12:34:27 skrev timecop : footprint = what the pads/holes/silk/wahtever on pcb for this component look like. Aah… that makes sense. Thanks. On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 8:28 PM, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: Den 2010-12-24 02:27:33 skrev kai-martin knaak : You may take a look at the symbols in http://gedasymbols.org Many of them are "heavy", meaning, they come with value and footprint attribute included. Sorry for my ignorance (English is not my main language), but what does ”footprint” mean in this situation? I know the word, just not what it means in this case… -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
Den 2010-12-24 12:32:36 skrev kai-martin knaak : Johnny Rosenberg wrote: type e x, or (Edit->Edit Text) select Middle-Middle alignment move the alignment mark to the center of the resistor. I tried that now,since you suggested it. Unfortunately it doesn't work like I expected: Left seems to mean right, right seems to mean left, upper seems to mean lower and lower seems to mean upper. Upper left seems to be default and everything else takes the text further away from where I want it. The description refer to the position of the alignment mark relative to the text itself. They are not meant as alignment relative to the box or other objects. You have to move the Text after you have changed the alignment to middle-middle. See the step-by step recipe I gave yesterday. Here it is again, for your convenience: 1) select the text: click on the symbol --> The whole symbol gets highlighted then click on the text --> only the text is highlighted 2) type [ex] --> edit-text-properties dialog appears click on the chooser right of "Alignment" choose "Middle Left" click "ok" 3) type [m] --> the text is attached to the mouse cursor move the mouse so that the text is at the desired position left mouse click --> the text detaches from the mouse cursor ---<)kaimartin(>--- I actually figured it out eventually. Thanks for all the help! The ”m” thing was what I was looking for and I also needed to change the grid spacing (pressing ”[” once). Now I'd like to save my ”new” symbol somewhere. I'm not sure how to do that yet, but I think I saw some information about it the other day, so I'm sure to find it again. Should I save it locally (somewhere under ~/) or system wide? -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
Den 2010-12-24 02:27:33 skrev kai-martin knaak : You may take a look at the symbols in http://gedasymbols.org Many of them are "heavy", meaning, they come with value and footprint attribute included. Sorry for my ignorance (English is not my main language), but what does ”footprint” mean in this situation? I know the word, just not what it means in this case… -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
Den 2010-12-24 01:10:55 skrev Stephan Boettcher : "Johnny Rosenberg" writes: Yet another newbie question then: I tried to enter a value of a resistor (/usr/share/gEDA/sym/analog/resistor-2.sym, my operating system is Ubuntu 10.10) but the position of the value needs to be adjusted a bit. How can I do that? It should look like this: –––[390kΩ]––– But it rather looks like this: –39[0kΩ ]––– The value needs to be centred, rather than aligned to the left. Did you try to just move the text? Select the text (not the component, just the text of the value attibute), type e x, or (Edit->Edit Text) select Middle-Middle alignment move the alignment mark to the center of the resistor. I tried that now,since you suggested it. Unfortunately it doesn't work like I expected: Left seems to mean right, right seems to mean left, upper seems to mean lower and lower seems to mean upper. Upper left seems to be default and everything else takes the text further away from where I want it. For further resistors, copy this resistor, so you do not need to allign every instance again. Attach a footprint attribute first, so that is copied as well, with your favorite resistor footprint. I also looked a bit into the /usr/share/gEDA/sym/analog/resistor-2.sym file, but I'm too much of a newbie to make any relevant changes to such files that actually work… You can open a symbol file in gschem to make changes, and save the changed version for your project. Oh… didn't think of that… yes, that should work, of course. -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
Den 2010-12-24 11:30:52 skrev Peter TB Brett : On Friday 24 December 2010 10:27:20 Johnny Rosenberg wrote: Den 2010-12-24 00:53:38 skrev Stefan Salewski : > On Fri, 2010-12-24 at 00:38 +0100, Stefan Salewski wrote: >> On Fri, 2010-12-24 at 00:31 +0100, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: >> > Value: → Enter ”390k”. >> > >> > Does it look nice? It certainly does not on my system. >> > >> > Am I doing this right at all? > > Ah, now I understand you problem: > > You want to place the text inside the box of the (german) rectangular > resister box. Is it German? I didn't know that. That's the symbol I've used all my life (I'm Swedish). Thought it was at least European standard (IEC) or something. You're correct, it's an international standard, not restricted to Germany; box resistors are the standard symbol in the UK too. Peter Actually we used both the symbols at school (many years ago…), but for different purposes. We used the –––/\/\/\/––– symbol when drawing a ”beräkningsschema”… sorry, I don't have a clue what that is in English, but perhaps something like ”schematics for calculations” or something like that? I don't know why we use different symbols in different situations though. -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Wikibook ?
Den 2010-12-24 11:23:35 skrev Peter TB Brett : On Friday 24 December 2010 10:12:42 timecop wrote: > But why not a real book, that is written in LaTeX? Because you just ruled out the remaining 1% of people who even wanted to help with writing any kinda documentation. Wrong. I much prefer writing LaTeX to writing wiki syntax. Also, diagrams are so much nicer (thank you TikZ!) Peter So you are the ”1% of people who even wanted to help with writing any kinda documentation”? Sorry, I didn't know that. -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Wikibook ?
Den 2010-12-24 10:43:34 skrev Armin Faltl : kai-martin knaak wrote: Thank you for describing the available documents so compact. What is missing in this picture? IMHO, it is a manual on how to use the tools in concert. The best approximation so far is the tutorial by Bill Wilson. But as it is a beginners tutorial, it does not attempt to cover more advanced tips and tricks. I envision this as the topic a wikibook: A user manual to the complete suite of tools. I know that a wiki book may have some advantages in the collaboration of making. But why not a real book, that is written in LaTeX? Exactly why is it important with what it is written? Sending patches for TeX-files or chapters is a very simple process and a pdf-book can be downloaded as a whole and read offline, printed. That's what we try to do now for "Varkon Programmers Handbook". -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
Den 2010-12-24 00:53:38 skrev Stefan Salewski : On Fri, 2010-12-24 at 00:38 +0100, Stefan Salewski wrote: On Fri, 2010-12-24 at 00:31 +0100, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: > Value: → Enter ”390k”. > > Does it look nice? It certainly does not on my system. > > Am I doing this right at all? > Ah, now I understand you problem: You want to place the text inside the box of the (german) rectangular resister box. Is it German? I didn't know that. That's the symbol I've used all my life (I'm Swedish). Thought it was at least European standard (IEC) or something. Well, you can move the text whereever you want. Grab it with the left mouse key and move it. It may be useful to align center, and it may be necessary to decrease font size. Sorry, have not used -- 123k -- layout ever. Thanks, I didn't realize that I could select the text only, but you are right, it's possible. :) -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
Den 2010-12-24 00:38:35 skrev Stefan Salewski : On Fri, 2010-12-24 at 00:31 +0100, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: Value: → Enter ”390k”. Does it look nice? It certainly does not on my system. Am I doing this right at all? May it be related to your OHM sign? I never use it, and I do not see it often in professional sheets. It ok if you want it, may work if gschem supports it and your box in configured fine, i.e. for utf-8. Please try without that sign for testing, maybe you can provide a picture of the problem. This was only an example and the Ω has nothing to do with it. Of course I have tried different text, like 390, 390k, 390 k and so on. Do you mean that this works perfectly for you, that the text appears inside the symbol? If I turn the symbol 90°, the value appears to the right of the symbol. Maybe the value shouldn't appear inside, but rather above it or something? -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
Den 2010-12-24 00:08:41 skrev Stefan Salewski : On Fri, 2010-12-24 at 00:00 +0100, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: Yet another newbie question then: I tried to enter a value of a resistor You can change the alignment mark of text, select the text, and select "Edit/Edit Text" from menu. In the popup window there is an alignment field. Not sure if that was your problem, sorry. Well, I'm a beginner so maybe I'm just doing it the wrong way or using the wrong tools. Here's what I do: Draw a resistor somewhere (Add component → Basic devices → resistor-2.sym). Right click the resistor and select ”Edit…”. Add attribute → Name: → Select ”value”. Value: → Enter ”390kΩ”. Click ”Add”. ☑ Visible ⇨ Select ”Show value only”. Click ”Close”. Does it look nice? It certainly does not on my system. Am I doing this right at all? -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Resistor values…
Yet another newbie question then: I tried to enter a value of a resistor (/usr/share/gEDA/sym/analog/resistor-2.sym, my operating system is Ubuntu 10.10) but the position of the value needs to be adjusted a bit. How can I do that? It should look like this: –––[390kΩ]––– But it rather looks like this: –39[0kΩ ]––– The value needs to be centred, rather than aligned to the left. I also looked a bit into the /usr/share/gEDA/sym/analog/resistor-2.sym file, but I'm too much of a newbie to make any relevant changes to such files that actually work… -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Drawing lines (schematic editor)
Den 2010-12-22 20:58:21 skrev kai-martin knaak : DJ Delorie wrote: Click on each corner as you go, to force the line to go where you want. If the line wants to jump to places you don't like, press ctrl while dragging the line with the mouse. ---<)kaimartin(>--- Thanks! That works perfectly for me! I thought I tried that before, but obviously I didn't do it properly (I experimented with Shift, Ctrl and Alt, but maybe I was just too fast or something…). -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Beginner question about the default title block
Den 2010-12-22 20:55:18 skrev kai-martin knaak : Johnny Rosenberg wrote: things like ”DRAWN BY”, ”TITLE”, ”REVISION” and so on. Am I supposed to fill that in by using the Text tool or is there a more proper way to do it? Yes, this is the proper way with the default title block. I too think, this is a bit tedious. So I designed my own title with regular attributes for name, date, etc. That way I can fire the attribute editor with [ee] and edit all entries in a dialog. You'd have to add a line to your local gschemrc in order to get your localized title block. See http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:faq-gschem#can_i_get_a_customized_title_block_with_new_schematics While at it, I also removed the big rectangle. I just never fits my circuit. Instead, I draw a rectangle with the add-box tool. http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:faq-gschem#why_are_symbols_so_big ---<)kaimartin(>--- Thanks, that makes more sense to me too. :) -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: How to change the default folder for my drawings?
Den 2010-12-22 20:50:56 skrev DJ Delorie : The default folder is the current working directory. If you're using the desktop to start gschem, you should be able to tell the desktop icon what it's starting directory is. If you start gschem from the terminal the default folder is the current directory inside the terminal. I use the Programs menu (Gnome, Ubuntu 10.10) and there is no such option there, unfortunately. -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Drawing lines (schematic editor)
Den 2010-12-22 20:47:41 skrev DJ Delorie : The small circle is the snap-to-pin feature. You can disable it (I leave it on) via Options->Toggle Magnetic Net Okay, thanks. :) -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: How to change the default folder for my drawings?
It seems like the default folder is ${HOME} by default, how can I change
that? I couldn't find anything like ”settings” or ”preferences” in the
menues.
--
Kind regards
Johnny Rosenberg
___
geda-user mailing list
geda-user@moria.seul.org
http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Beginner question about the default title block
Den 2010-12-22 20:29:39 skrev Peter TB Brett : On Wednesday 22 December 2010 19:17:14 Johnny Rosenberg wrote: When I open a new page, a ”title block” is all I see, and there I can read things like ”DRAWN BY”, ”TITLE”, ”REVISION” and so on. Am I supposed to fill that in by using the Text tool ...? Yes! That's what I do, anyway. Other people have other ways of doing it, I'm sure. :-) Peter I first thought that I was supposed to change some parameters of some kind… -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Drawing lines (schematic editor)
Den 2010-12-22 20:26:57 skrev DJ Delorie : Click on each corner as you go, to force the line to go where you want. I find the behaviour a bit in-consequent (or maybe I just don't understand it…). Some times I fail, some times I succeed… I found that if I start clicking somewhere on the surface and start from there, I can draw the line in two steps… But I have to click somewhere where a small circle does not show up, otherwise it will snap to that small circle… -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Drawing lines (schematic editor)
I installed the gEDA schematic editor (and other gEDA stuff) yesterday and played around with it a bit today and as a beginner I have a few questions, here's one of them (I already asked one in another thread a few minutes ago): When I connect things to each other I enter the ”add nets mode”, right? So for testing, I first added an ordinary OP amp and then I wanted to draw a line between the output and ”-” to create a ”follower”, it that the right word in English? But no matter what I did in add nets mode, the (blue) line went right through the OP amp, which doesn't look very good in my opinion… How do I prevent this from happen? Sorry for not so good English… -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Beginner question about the default title block
I installed the gEDA schematic editor (and other gEDA stuff) yesterday and played around with it a bit today and as a beginner I have a few questions, I hope you don't mind: When I open a new page, a ”title block” is all I see, and there I can read things like ”DRAWN BY”, ”TITLE”, ”REVISION” and so on. Am I supposed to fill that in by using the Text tool or is there a more proper way to do it? -- Kind regards Johnny Rosenberg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
