Re: [gentoo-user] Would a Thinkpad X200 be too much trouble too run gentoo on?
On Thursday, 21 April 2022 17:00:04 BST Michael Orlitzky wrote: > On Thu, 2022-04-21 at 08:24 -0700, cal wrote: > > Do you have any other (more powerful) machines at home that you could > > set up as a distcc cluster? > > My desktop is only slightly more powerful. I don't really mind the > webkit-gtk build time since it's shared between epiphany and evolution. > I just run that (and/or gcc) overnight when I need to. I have an old Acer laptop with a Core 2 Duo P7550 @2.26GHz CPU and only 4G RAM. It will compile everything, even rust and qtwebengine, although it may take more than a day to achieve this. Hence I use a more modern PC to build binaries which I then transfer and emerge on the laptop in minutes. > > In addition to the usual problem packages others have called out, the > > main problem I ran into was heat dissipation > > I leave it on top of a giant fan or near an open window, weather > permitting. Or, use some blocks/books to suspend it off the desk. A couple of inches may be enough. Alternatively, you can buy a cooling pad. Some come with USB powered fans too, which help drop the CPU temperature by another couple of degrees. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Would a Thinkpad X200 be too much trouble too run gentoo on?
On Thu, 2022-04-21 at 15:39 +, Grant Edwards wrote: > > Have you tried using dev-lang/rust-bin? > No, I avoid rust mainly for the security problems. The compilation time saved is just a bonus.
Re: [gentoo-user] Would a Thinkpad X200 be too much trouble too run gentoo on?
On Thu, 2022-04-21 at 08:24 -0700, cal wrote: > > Do you have any other (more powerful) machines at home that you could > set up as a distcc cluster? My desktop is only slightly more powerful. I don't really mind the webkit-gtk build time since it's shared between epiphany and evolution. I just run that (and/or gcc) overnight when I need to. > > In addition to the usual problem packages others have called out, the > main problem I ran into was heat dissipation I leave it on top of a giant fan or near an open window, weather permitting.
Re: [gentoo-user] Would a Thinkpad X200 be too much trouble too run gentoo on?
On Thu, 2022-04-21 at 15:41 +, Peter Humphrey wrote: > > Clever indeed, but here: > > gnome-base/librsvg-2.52.6 pulled in by: > app-text/djvu-3.5.28-r1 requires gnome-base/librsvg > media-gfx/gimp-2.10.30 requires >=gnome-base/librsvg-2.40.6:2 > media-gfx/imagemagick-7.1.0.13 requires gnome-base/librsvg > media-libs/gegl-0.4.34 requires >=gnome-base/librsvg-2.40.6:2 > media-video/ffmpeg-4.4.1-r5 requires gnome-base/librsvg: > 2/2=[abi_x86_64(-)], gnome-base/librsvg:2=[abi_x86_64(-)] > x11-libs/gtk+-2.24.33 requires gnome-base/librsvg[abi_x86_64(-)] > x11-libs/gtk+-3.24.31 requires gnome-base/librsvg[abi_x86_64(-)] > x11-themes/adwaita-icon-theme-41.0 requires >=gnome-base/librsvg-2.48:2 > > GTK itself doesn't *really* need it. You'll just get warnings (and no image) if it tries to render an SVG for some reason. ffmpeg and imagemagick only need it to convert SVGs, which you can do with inkscape instead. I'm not sure about djvu but I'd guess it's the same. GIMP is annoying. It doesn't actually need librsvg for anything but importing SVGs, and it used to be completely optional. The maintainers have removed the option however, and don't want to put it back. In theory it would be trivial to patch out (their words), but I haven't bothered to try it.
Re: [gentoo-user] Would a Thinkpad X200 be too much trouble too run gentoo on?
On Thursday, 21 April 2022 14:10:13 -00 Matt Connell (Gmail) wrote: > On Thu, 2022-04-21 at 09:41 -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > > FWIW I dodge the librsvg (and therefore rust) dependency by using a > > binpkg for my desktop icons. > > Clever. Unfortunately for me I still need gimp and evince and a few > others that depend on it, otherwise I'd be tempted to try to replicate > that. Clever indeed, but here: gnome-base/librsvg-2.52.6 pulled in by: app-text/djvu-3.5.28-r1 requires gnome-base/librsvg media-gfx/gimp-2.10.30 requires >=gnome-base/librsvg-2.40.6:2 media-gfx/imagemagick-7.1.0.13 requires gnome-base/librsvg media-libs/gegl-0.4.34 requires >=gnome-base/librsvg-2.40.6:2 media-video/ffmpeg-4.4.1-r5 requires gnome-base/librsvg: 2/2=[abi_x86_64(-)], gnome-base/librsvg:2=[abi_x86_64(-)] x11-libs/gtk+-2.24.33 requires gnome-base/librsvg[abi_x86_64(-)] x11-libs/gtk+-3.24.31 requires gnome-base/librsvg[abi_x86_64(-)] x11-themes/adwaita-icon-theme-41.0 requires >=gnome-base/librsvg-2.48:2 Not many icon packages in there. -- Regards, Peter.
[gentoo-user] Re: Would a Thinkpad X200 be too much trouble too run gentoo on?
On 2022-04-21, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > On Thu, 2022-04-21 at 15:49 +0300, Dex Conner wrote: > >> So I've found a Thinkpad X200 online and I'm thinking of buying it for >> libreboot purposes. Do you think the P8600 cpu can handle all the >> compiling on gentoo? For the record, I don't have any of the "big stuff" >> like KDE, GNOME, Firefox (all I have is Tor Browser [which I don't >> compile], dwl and some terminal programs like neomutt and profanity). >> Surely, I wouldn't be spending 5 hours to do small upgrades, >> right?..right? > > It's getting harder and harder. There's always GCC, which is going to > take you most of the day to build and will probably require -j1 to keep > you from running out of memory. But aside from that, the big ones are > > * dev-lang/rust: pulled in by anything that needs SVG support unless > you unmask an old insecure version of librsvg or can tolerate half- > broken SVG support. This takes over 24h, requires -j1, and gets > worse every day because it bundles all of its (growing list of) > dependencies. Have you tried using dev-lang/rust-bin? I switched all my machines to rust-bin a while back, and never noticed any problem. > > * LLVM: needed by rust, some video cards, and certain picky packages. > This one is at least _legitimately_ large but has annoying point > releases every once in a while that trigger a rebuild for little > benefit. Again, expect ~24h. Yea, building LLVM is brutal, and pretty much unavoidable these days. -- Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] Would a Thinkpad X200 be too much trouble too run gentoo on?
On 4/21/22 08:02, Dex Conner wrote: > On 22/04/21 09:09AM, Michael Orlitzky wrote: >> On Thu, 2022-04-21 at 15:49 +0300, Dex Conner wrote: >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> So I've found a Thinkpad X200 online and I'm thinking of buying it for >>> libreboot purposes. Do you think the P8600 cpu can handle all the >>> compiling on gentoo? For the record, I don't have any of the "big stuff" >>> like KDE, GNOME, Firefox (all I have is Tor Browser [which I don't >>> compile], dwl and some terminal programs like neomutt and profanity). >>> Surely, I wouldn't be spending 5 hours to do small upgrades, >>> right?..right? >>> >>> >> >> It's getting harder and harder. There's always GCC, which is going to >> take you most of the day to build and will probably require -j1 to keep >> you from running out of memory. But aside from that, the big ones are >> >> * dev-lang/rust: pulled in by anything that needs SVG support unless >> you unmask an old insecure version of librsvg or can tolerate half- >> broken SVG support. This takes over 24h, requires -j1, and gets >> worse every day because it bundles all of its (growing list of) >> dependencies. >> >> * LLVM: needed by rust, some video cards, and certain picky packages. >> This one is at least _legitimately_ large but has annoying point >> releases every once in a while that trigger a rebuild for little >> benefit. Again, expect ~24h. >> >> * net-libs/webkit-gtk: if you're avoiding firefox (which is huge, >> and requires rust, which is huge), then this is your best bet for >> a browser engine. Even if you don't use it directly, other apps >> like evolution (mail client) can pull it in. It too is huge, just >> not as bad as the others. This one finishes in something like 18h >> for me. >> >> Everything else that's packaged well and uses a sane programming >> language shouldn't give you much trouble. > > LLVM is annoying even on my current machine but I already avoid rust > with rust-bin and I don't have webkit-gtk. I'm wondering much of a remedy > using a T400 with quad core mod would be to that 24h compile time. Not sure > if it would be worth the 50-70 bucks, though. That's more than what the > computer costs! Do you have any other (more powerful) machines at home that you could set up as a distcc cluster? I've run Gentoo on a T420 and X220 (so two generations newer than your X200), using my home desktop [i7-6700K] as a distcc host for updates. It's livable, but definitely the kind of thing where I'd kick off an emerge --update and leave it running for several hours while I'm doing something else. I've also upgraded mine to 8GB RAM which helps with certain builds. In addition to the usual problem packages others have called out, the main problem I ran into was heat dissipation: the X220 chassis is so small that railing the CPU at 100% for hours on compiles was pushing the temperature over 90 degrees celsius. I disassembled the laptop and applied new high quality thermal paste to the CPU/heatsink and it seems to be doing a little better now. cal
Re: [gentoo-user] Would a Thinkpad X200 be too much trouble too run gentoo on?
On Thu, 2022-04-21 at 09:41 -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > FWIW I dodge the librsvg (and therefore rust) dependency by using a > binpkg for my desktop icons. Clever. Unfortunately for me I still need gimp and evince and a few others that depend on it, otherwise I'd be tempted to try to replicate that.
Re: [gentoo-user] Would a Thinkpad X200 be too much trouble too run gentoo on?
On Thu, 2022-04-21 at 14:31 +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: > > Firefox and Rust have -bin packages - not so lucky with LLVM and > webkit-gtk. > Everything has a -bin package if you're willing to trade the security, configurability, and performance that you get from a source build: https://gentoo.osuosl.org/experimental/amd64/binpkg/default/linux/17.1/x86-64/ FWIW I dodge the librsvg (and therefore rust) dependency by using a binpkg for my desktop icons. There's no (security, configurability, or performance) issues with using pre-built icons, and only a few tiny things are left a little bit broken. So, a normal day in Gentoo.
Re: [gentoo-user] Would a Thinkpad X200 be too much trouble too run gentoo on?
On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 09:09:16 -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > It's getting harder and harder. There's always GCC, which is going to > take you most of the day to build and will probably require -j1 to keep > you from running out of memory. But aside from that, the big ones are > > * dev-lang/rust: pulled in by anything that needs SVG support unless > you unmask an old insecure version of librsvg or can tolerate half- > broken SVG support. This takes over 24h, requires -j1, and gets > worse every day because it bundles all of its (growing list of) > dependencies. > > * LLVM: needed by rust, some video cards, and certain picky packages. > This one is at least _legitimately_ large but has annoying point > releases every once in a while that trigger a rebuild for little > benefit. Again, expect ~24h. > > * net-libs/webkit-gtk: if you're avoiding firefox (which is huge, > and requires rust, which is huge), then this is your best bet for > a browser engine. Even if you don't use it directly, other apps > like evolution (mail client) can pull it in. It too is huge, just > not as bad as the others. This one finishes in something like 18h > for me. Firefox and Rust have -bin packages - not so lucky with LLVM and webkit-gtk. -- Neil Bothwick Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle: The location of all objects cannot be known simultaneously. Corollary: If a lost thing is found, something else will disappear. pgp3w6Eaj3QoX.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Would a Thinkpad X200 be too much trouble too run gentoo on?
On Thu, 2022-04-21 at 09:09 -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > dev-lang/rust There is rust-bin, though. I use rust-bin on even brand new machines and even though I try to use source builds whenever because I just can't be bothered with the compilation problems and time. > net-libs/webkit-gtk OP isn't using evolution so they may be able to dodge this one.
Re: [gentoo-user] Would a Thinkpad X200 be too much trouble too run gentoo on?
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 03:49:24PM +0300, Dex Conner wrote: > Hi everyone, > > So I've found a Thinkpad X200 online and I'm thinking of buying it for > libreboot purposes. Do you think the P8600 cpu can handle all the > compiling on gentoo? For the record, I don't have any of the "big stuff" > like KDE, GNOME, Firefox (all I have is Tor Browser [which I don't > compile], dwl and some terminal programs like neomutt and profanity). > Surely, I wouldn't be spending 5 hours to do small upgrades, > right?..right? > > Thank you > -- > Dex libreboot cant microcode updates, pretty much all dead now ie cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/* entire things DOA -- signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Would a Thinkpad X200 be too much trouble too run gentoo on?
On Thu, 2022-04-21 at 15:49 +0300, Dex Conner wrote: > Hi everyone, > > So I've found a Thinkpad X200 online and I'm thinking of buying it for > libreboot purposes. Do you think the P8600 cpu can handle all the > compiling on gentoo? For the record, I don't have any of the "big stuff" > like KDE, GNOME, Firefox (all I have is Tor Browser [which I don't > compile], dwl and some terminal programs like neomutt and profanity). > Surely, I wouldn't be spending 5 hours to do small upgrades, > right?..right? > > It's getting harder and harder. There's always GCC, which is going to take you most of the day to build and will probably require -j1 to keep you from running out of memory. But aside from that, the big ones are * dev-lang/rust: pulled in by anything that needs SVG support unless you unmask an old insecure version of librsvg or can tolerate half- broken SVG support. This takes over 24h, requires -j1, and gets worse every day because it bundles all of its (growing list of) dependencies. * LLVM: needed by rust, some video cards, and certain picky packages. This one is at least _legitimately_ large but has annoying point releases every once in a while that trigger a rebuild for little benefit. Again, expect ~24h. * net-libs/webkit-gtk: if you're avoiding firefox (which is huge, and requires rust, which is huge), then this is your best bet for a browser engine. Even if you don't use it directly, other apps like evolution (mail client) can pull it in. It too is huge, just not as bad as the others. This one finishes in something like 18h for me. Everything else that's packaged well and uses a sane programming language shouldn't give you much trouble.
