Re: [Goanet]Re: Vivek Araujo's Comments
Santosh, Hatred and pride always had its fall. God bless you and the one's who know you well. Great weekend and lookforward for a reply tothis mail Ciao Vivek --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In a message dated 8/14/2003 2:48:30 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > > Lastly Mr. Santosh ponder on what I have mentioned > and > > you will see life is wonderful not to have enemies > but > > friends for ever. > > > > Vivek: > > I have pondered on everything you have written so > far, and I am still not convinced by your > explanations and exhortations. I find friendship > even in disagreement - or rather, especially in > disagreement. Most of my closest friends disagree > with me. And I don't have any enemies - at least, > ones that really know me. > > Cheers, > > Santosh > > > > > > ## > # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > # > # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), > and avoid top-posts # > # More details on Goanet at > http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # > # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to > reflect respect to others # > ## Yahoo! India Promos: Win TVs, Bikes, DVD players & more! Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
Re: [Goanet]Re: Vivek Araujo's Comments
In a message dated 8/14/2003 2:48:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Lastly Mr. Santosh ponder on what I have mentioned and > you will see life is wonderful not to have enemies but > friends for ever. > Vivek: I have pondered on everything you have written so far, and I am still not convinced by your explanations and exhortations. I find friendship even in disagreement - or rather, especially in disagreement. Most of my closest friends disagree with me. And I don't have any enemies - at least, ones that really know me. Cheers, Santosh ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
Re: [Goanet]Re: Vivek Araujo's Comments
In a message dated 8/11/2003 3:49:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > I know not who he is, but I do know who Santosh is. > I just want to let people know that Joe Vaz does not know who I am. Please disregard whatever he writes about me. Cheers, Santosh ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
Re: [Goanet]Re: Vivek Araujo's Comments
In a message dated 8/12/2003 4:02:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Within a month he was feeling better and discarded his conventional treatments. > Praise >the lord, he was cured! Unfortunately for him, two months later, he was dead. > vivek araujo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote earlier: > >she made me kneel to recite three hail mary our father and hail holy queen gave me >some holy water and requested that I pray the rosary , went home and prayed the >rosary >with faith ,tears rolled down my eyes and I could feel the touch of the Good >lord who >as though touched me and said I heal you in the name of lord , had some >holy water, and >the next morning till date I never had a problem. > It is always a bad idea to discontinue modern scientific medical treatment, and opt for some untested, supernatural treatment. In case people are wondering why bogus treatments such as the ones cited in the above excerpts often seem to work, at least for a short period of time, here is a nice article by Dr. Barry Beyerstein, a biopsychologist at Simon Fraser University in Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada. Cheers, Santosh WHY BOGUS THERAPIES OFTEN SEEM TO WORK Barry L. Beyerstein, Ph.D. Subtle forces can lead intelligent people (both patients and therapists) to think that a treatment has helped someone when it has not. This is true for new treatments in scientific medicine, as well as for nostrums in folk medicine, fringe practices in "alternative medicine," and the ministrations of faith healers. Many dubious methods remain on the market primarily because satisfied customers offer testimonials to their worth. Essentially, these people say: "I tried it, and I got better, so it must be effective." The electronic and print media typically portray testimonials as valid evidence. But without proper testing, it is difficult or impossible to determine whether this is so. This article describes seven reasons why people may erroneously conclude that an ineffective therapy works. 1. The disease may have run its natural course. Many diseases are self-limiting. If the condition is not chronic or fatal, the body's own recuperative processes usually restore the sufferer to health. Thus, to demonstrate that a therapy is effective, its proponents must show that the number of patients listed as improved exceeds the number expected to recover without any treatment at all (or that they recover reliably faster than if left untreated). Without detailed records of successes and failures for a large enough number of patients with the same complaint, someone cannot legitimately claim to have exceeded the published norms for unaided recovery. 2. Many diseases are cyclical. Such conditions as arthritis, multiple sclerosis, allergies, and gastrointestinal problems normally have "ups and downs." Naturally, sufferers tend to seek therapy during the downturn of any given cycle. In this way, a bogus treatment will have repeated opportunities to coincide with upturns that would have happened anyway. 3. The placebo effect may be responsible. Through suggestion, belief, expectancy, cognitive reinterpretation, and diversion of attention, patients given biologically useless treatments often experience measurable relief. Some placebo responses produce actual changes in the physical condition; others are subjective changes that make patients feel better even though there has been no objective change in the underlying pathology. 4. People who hedge their bets credit the wrong thing. If improvement occurs after someone has had both "alternative" and science-based treatment, the fringe practice often gets a disproportionate share of the credit. 5. The original diagnosis or prognosis may have been incorrect. Scientifically trained physicians are not infallible. A mistaken diagnosis, followed by a trip to a shrine or an "alternative" healer, can lead to a glowing testimonial for curing a condition that would have resolved by itself. In other cases, the diagnosis may be correct but the time frame, which is inherently difficult to predict, might prove inaccurate. 6. Temporary mood improvement can be confused with cure. Alternative healers often have forceful, charismatic personalities. To the extent that patients are swept up by the messianic aspects of "alternative medicine," psychological uplift may ensue. 7. Psychological needs can distort what people perceive and do. Even when no objective improvement occurs, people with a strong psychological investment in "alternative medicine" can convince themselves they have been helped. According to cognitive dissonance theory, when experiences contradict existing attitudes, feelings, or knowledge, mental distress is produced. People tend to alleviate this discord by reinterpreting (distorting) the offending information. If no relief occurs after committing time, money, and "face" to an alternate course of treatment (and perhaps to t
Re: [Goanet]Re: Vivek Araujo's Comments
Hey Santosh If you are not confidant of yourself then do expect for an alternative view from others, as regards making fpeople feel my explanations as exhortations and unconvincing do not worry of it but worry for yourself, Mr. Santosh, the world where we are living in today is hectic and taxing, we should live in peace and harmony , loving and caring, stretching your hand to help those who need you the most, life is too short to get tensed and worked up on topics which bear no fruits. Lastly Mr. Santosh ponder on what I have mentioned and you will see life is wonderful not to have enemies but friends for ever. God bless you Vivek --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In a message dated 8/13/2003 2:29:30 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > > > >I for one wouldn't know what you are looking for > from this > > subject but if there is something more that you > are > > looking for then you may have got the wrong end of > the > > stick. > > > > Vivek: > > My post on the above thread and the article I posted > was not meant for you. It was meant for people who > find your explanations and exhortations > unconvincing. It was also meant to voice an > alternative view. > > Cheers, > > Santosh > > > > ## > # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > # > # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), > and avoid top-posts # > # More details on Goanet at > http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # > # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to > reflect respect to others # > ## Yahoo! India Promos: Win TVs, Bikes, DVD players & more! Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
Re: [Goanet]Re: Vivek Araujo's Comments
Santosh, Very well said , but as usual you seem to be in a hurry to reply without understanding the real issue, in short all I want totell you is faith, as is rightly said faith can move mountains. About supernatural not being tested and the rest who will test it, examples of miracles of the good lord is seen and experienced by many and this itself is a great test.Forget of the article of the doctor you have mentioned, if you read my article very well at no point of time have I mentioned one should leave scientific medication it varies from person to person , either you take it or leave it, you seem to be diverting from the issue, my basis was on the subject does god exist, and not should one have faith in scientific medication. You got it wrong my friend.Lastly Mr. Santosh too much knowledge is wise and ignorance is bliss. I for one wouldn't know what you are looking for from this subject but if there is something more that you are looking for then you may have got the wrong end of the stick. Again Istress do not confuse issues, lets be to the point and iron it out. I do what I believe to be right you do what you believe to be right, about citing my example of my recovery is just a small fraction of the miracle which I felt and recovered, there are so many miracles that takes place in the world and even the doctors at times they remark that "well we have done our best or we will do our best the rest is in the hands of God" and they too believe that God can do wonders do you mean to say that they too do not believe in scientific medicine? God exists always and one day you will witness the marvels of the almighty and change your thinking. Wish you the best friend and God bless you. Vivek --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In a message dated 8/12/2003 4:02:46 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > > Within a month he was feeling better and discarded > his conventional treatments. Praise >the lord, he > was cured! Unfortunately for him, two months later, > he was dead. > > > > vivek araujo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > earlier: > > > >she made me kneel to recite three hail mary our > father and hail holy queen gave me > >some holy water and requested that I pray the > rosary , went home and prayed the rosary >with faith > ,tears rolled down my eyes and I could feel the > touch of the Good lord who >as though touched me and > said I heal you in the name of lord , had some holy > water, and >the next morning till date I never had > a problem. > > > > It is always a bad idea to discontinue modern > scientific medical treatment, and opt for some > untested, supernatural treatment. In case people are > wondering why bogus treatments such as the ones > cited in the above excerpts often seem to work, at > least for a short period of time, here is a nice > article by Dr. Barry Beyerstein, a biopsychologist > at Simon Fraser University in Burnaby, British > Columbia, Canada. > > Cheers, > > Santosh > > > > WHY BOGUS THERAPIES OFTEN SEEM TO WORK > > Barry L. Beyerstein, Ph.D. > > Subtle forces can lead intelligent people (both > patients and therapists) to think that a treatment > has helped someone when it has not. This is true for > new treatments in scientific medicine, as well as > for nostrums in folk medicine, fringe practices in > "alternative medicine," and the ministrations of > faith healers. > > Many dubious methods remain on the market primarily > because satisfied customers offer testimonials to > their worth. Essentially, these people say: "I tried > it, and I got better, so it must be effective." The > electronic and print media typically portray > testimonials as valid evidence. But without proper > testing, it is difficult or impossible to determine > whether this is so. > > This article describes seven reasons why people may > erroneously conclude that an ineffective therapy > works. > > 1. The disease may have run its natural course. > Many diseases are self-limiting. If the condition is > not chronic or fatal, the body's own recuperative > processes usually restore the sufferer to health. > Thus, to demonstrate that a therapy is effective, > its proponents must show that the number of patients > listed as improved exceeds the number expected to > recover without any treatment at all (or that they > recover reliably faster than if left untreated). > Without detailed records of successes and failures > for a large enough number of patients with the same > complaint, someone cannot legitimately claim to have > exceeded the published norms for unaided recovery. > > 2. Many diseases are cyclical. > Such conditions as arthritis, multiple sclerosis, > allergies, and gastrointestinal problems normally > have "ups and downs." Naturally, sufferers tend to > seek therapy during the downturn of any given cycle. > In this way, a bogus treatment will have repeated > opportunities to coincide with upturns tha
Re: [Goanet]Re: Vivek Araujo's Comments
In a message dated 8/13/2003 2:29:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > >I for one wouldn't know what you are looking for from this > subject but if there is something more that you are > looking for then you may have got the wrong end of the > stick. > Vivek: My post on the above thread and the article I posted was not meant for you. It was meant for people who find your explanations and exhortations unconvincing. It was also meant to voice an alternative view. Cheers, Santosh ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
