Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
And just to add my vote as it were, I would love for people to learn to use mailers like they should. In fact, screw mailers, try all applications on the planet. The fact of the matter is reply means reply not new mail. This is the same as reading and using any other application on a logical base system. If you select an option that has a different logical meaning to the one you want, it will do different from what you want. If you treat systems like that you will never properly understand or utilise them, and this will lead to problems elsewhere in the future, for example, the mailing list archives. Read your systems. Learn what the buttons MEAN not what you hope they will do, and use the systems the way they were intended please. (Attention to detail saves everyone money). Respectfully, James. On 11/29/05, Bryan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh come now, he hasn't beaten that dead horse enought yet. He has at least 50 posts remaining before he gives in. Crazy_One ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
* James Tucker ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [051129 04:40]: And just to add my vote as it were, I would love for Let sleeping dogs lie. -- An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest - Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790) Derek Evan Mart Systems Administrator U of L - Electrical Computer Engineering The Marticus Project - http://www.marticus.org/ 1514 3659 D057 D10C 6BE6 3E68 15BE B181 2F1F 510B AA C4 72 14 97 6F 14 14 B3 9C BB 6E D8 71 9A 67 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
Eric (Deacon) wrote: In a bold display of creativity, Dagok wrote: Majority of people do not view the mailing lists in a threaded view. Instead they view them as normal emails. Even assuming this speculation is true, how does that excuse you? More importantly, these posts are archived and viewable online in a threaded form. The threads are not arbitrarily decided on by subject title, but by the message headers. IMO that's pretty standard behaviour for mail sorting, no matter how much you like/apologize for MS products. Show your consideration by creating a new post to the list. It's a small amount of effort, but helps keep the archive a useful resource that we all use from time to time. -Andrew ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
An even smaller effort is not bitching about it everytime someone does it. It's going to happen and it's not the end of the world nor is it going to have much effect on the mailing lists. Dunno about anyone else, but I'm tired of Eric bitching everytime someone does something on the mailing lists that he doesn't approve of. Dagok - Original Message - From: Andrew Forsberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 12:09 AM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line! Eric (Deacon) wrote: In a bold display of creativity, Dagok wrote: Majority of people do not view the mailing lists in a threaded view. Instead they view them as normal emails. Even assuming this speculation is true, how does that excuse you? More importantly, these posts are archived and viewable online in a threaded form. The threads are not arbitrarily decided on by subject title, but by the message headers. IMO that's pretty standard behaviour for mail sorting, no matter how much you like/apologize for MS products. Show your consideration by creating a new post to the list. It's a small amount of effort, but helps keep the archive a useful resource that we all use from time to time. -Andrew ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
Dagok wrote: An even smaller effort is not bitching about it everytime someone does it. It's going to happen and it's not the end of the world nor is it going to have much effect on the mailing lists. So knowingly stuffing up the threading is somehow defensible? How very helpful of you. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
Obviously he didnt know when he did it, nor did I until it was pointed out in this thread. So how is that knowingly? Dagok - Original Message - From: Andrew Forsberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 12:36 AM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line! Dagok wrote: An even smaller effort is not bitching about it everytime someone does it. It's going to happen and it's not the end of the world nor is it going to have much effect on the mailing lists. So knowingly stuffing up the threading is somehow defensible? How very helpful of you. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
Dagok wrote: Obviously he didnt know when he did it, nor did I until it was pointed out in this thread. So how is that knowingly? My cl_care cvar for this subject is rapidly approaching 0, however -- your and Glenn's point of view appears to be that we should be using Outlook. This implies that it is everyone else's problem that elementary list etiquette isn't required. I say 'knowingly', since you're also complaining about Eric 'bitching' about this sort of thing. Ben K in particular has posted on the same subject many times recently. It's not such a difficult concept to grasp. But whatever... back to work. -Andrew ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] It has to be done correctly for the reasons mentioned. Main thing is a simple polite can you next time please start with a fresh mail and not reply to one and change the topic for archiving reason should suffice really. On 11/28/05, Andrew Forsberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dagok wrote: Obviously he didnt know when he did it, nor did I until it was pointed out in this thread. So how is that knowingly? My cl_care cvar for this subject is rapidly approaching 0, however -- your and Glenn's point of view appears to be that we should be using Outlook. This implies that it is everyone else's problem that elementary list etiquette isn't required. I say 'knowingly', since you're also complaining about Eric 'bitching' about this sort of thing. Ben K in particular has posted on the same subject many times recently. It's not such a difficult concept to grasp. But whatever... back to work. -Andrew ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
*yawn* Haven't this discussion be going on for too long now? There are several netiquett sites out there. There are probably some really interesting netiquett mailinglists for you all to flame instead of this one... This is the last line in this thread for me, so don't bother to reply to it, cause its a really booring thread... /Bjorn On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, Ian mu wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] It has to be done correctly for the reasons mentioned. Main thing is a simple polite can you next time please start with a fresh mail and not reply to one and change the topic for archiving reason should suffice really. On 11/28/05, Andrew Forsberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dagok wrote: Obviously he didnt know when he did it, nor did I until it was pointed out in this thread. So how is that knowingly? My cl_care cvar for this subject is rapidly approaching 0, however -- your and Glenn's point of view appears to be that we should be using Outlook. This implies that it is everyone else's problem that elementary list etiquette isn't required. I say 'knowingly', since you're also complaining about Eric 'bitching' about this sort of thing. Ben K in particular has posted on the same subject many times recently. It's not such a difficult concept to grasp. But whatever... back to work. -Andrew ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
Well, obviously whoever started the thread didn't *knowingly* stuff up the threading *on purpose*. Which is why there's such a big pushback on the asshattery from Eric. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Forsberg Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 1:37 AM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line! Dagok wrote: An even smaller effort is not bitching about it everytime someone does it. It's going to happen and it's not the end of the world nor is it going to have much effect on the mailing lists. So knowingly stuffing up the threading is somehow defensible? How very helpful of you. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
Outlook, whether you like it or not, is one of the most popular mail clients in a business environment. http://advisor.com/doc/16674 65 percent, according to that impromptu survey. It also has quite a home following, being bundled with things like MS Money and MS Works. For better or for worse, a ton of people (possibly the majority) use Outlook. Who decides what standards are? Oh, that's right, the majority of USERS. You can have all the IEEE guys come up with all the standards they wish they could program; if no one adopts them, the standard is bunk. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric (Deacon) Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 11:39 PM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line! In a bold display of creativity, Glenn Shannon wrote: Of course, next comes the debate about top-posting like this is friggin usenet or something. Rarely an issue except in extreme circumstances. Outlook 2003 displays the threads separately. No, it separates threads based on subject line. Is this in your thread? It will be for me. I suggest you update your mail client so it can handle small idiosyncrasies for you automatically so you don't get your panties in a bind every time you check your mail. Right. I'll look for a paragon of standards compliance and best practices like Outlook in order to offset your own inadequacies because you're too inconsiderate (no longer just ignorant) to do so yourself. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
Andrew Forsberg wrote: I say 'knowingly', since you're also complaining about Eric 'bitching' about this sort of thing. Ben K in particular has posted on the same subject many times recently. Yup it annoys me but thankfully most people are quite apologetic when they do it and agree not to do it again so it's not an issue. :) I think it's generally to the disadvantage of the people that do it however, because if I become bored with a thread and ignore it, I will not read their new thread because it's buried in another. It would be nice if my mail client had a way to force a mail to be regarded as a new thread though. Just my 2 pence ;) -- Ben ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
Eric is an arse, and always has been an arse. But he does know his stuff, and when he takes a break from flaming he does post genuinly useful information. Can we just drop the useless crap, and get back onto the topic, which is trying to help us diagnose the problem which most of us are having. Every little bit counts, something you think insignificant might be of help to someone else. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Kennish Sent: 28 November 2005 14:45 To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line! Andrew Forsberg wrote: I say 'knowingly', since you're also complaining about Eric 'bitching' about this sort of thing. Ben K in particular has posted on the same subject many times recently. Yup it annoys me but thankfully most people are quite apologetic when they do it and agree not to do it again so it's not an issue. :) I think it's generally to the disadvantage of the people that do it however, because if I become bored with a thread and ignore it, I will not read their new thread because it's buried in another. It would be nice if my mail client had a way to force a mail to be regarded as a new thread though. Just my 2 pence ;) -- Ben ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
Nobody has said that you or Eric should be using Outlook. Its actually the other way around, Eric has stated that we should change our email software to suit him. My point below was to make it clear (appearently it went right over your head) that not everyone is going to know that some people view this in a threaded view and that changing the subject line while replying to another thread is still going to keep it attached to the previous thread topic. So next time time Eric should maybe explain the problem instead of being rude to the person and telling him to create a new topic when it looked to most people that he had. Dagok - Original Message - From: Andrew Forsberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 1:52 AM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line! Dagok wrote: Obviously he didnt know when he did it, nor did I until it was pointed out in this thread. So how is that knowingly? My cl_care cvar for this subject is rapidly approaching 0, however -- your and Glenn's point of view appears to be that we should be using Outlook. This implies that it is everyone else's problem that elementary list etiquette isn't required. I say 'knowingly', since you're also complaining about Eric 'bitching' about this sort of thing. Ben K in particular has posted on the same subject many times recently. It's not such a difficult concept to grasp. But whatever... back to work. -Andrew ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
Who are you to speak for the majority of people? Regardless of that, the fact that you won't start a new thread makes finding useful information in the archives difficult since that is sorted by thread as well. If everyone shared your inconsiderate mindset, having the archives would eventually be in a huge mess making them almost completely ineffective. /p Quoting Dagok [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hey Eric, get off your high horse and open your eyes. Majority of people do not view the mailing lists in a threaded view. Instead they view them as normal emails. Because you do view them in a threaded view does not make you special. Now get over it and move on. Dagok - Original Message - From: Eric (Deacon) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 10:38 PM Subject: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line! In a bold display of creativity, Glenn Shannon wrote: Of course, next comes the debate about top-posting like this is friggin usenet or something. Rarely an issue except in extreme circumstances. Outlook 2003 displays the threads separately. No, it separates threads based on subject line. Is this in your thread? It will be for me. I suggest you update your mail client so it can handle small idiosyncrasies for you automatically so you don't get your panties in a bind every time you check your mail. Right. I'll look for a paragon of standards compliance and best practices like Outlook in order to offset your own inadequacies because you're too inconsiderate (no longer just ignorant) to do so yourself. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
That's quite the resource you got there. Data sure looks reliable. /sarcasm Got more out of the plethera of advertising than the hidden arcticle that was somewhere in there... /p Quoting Glenn Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Outlook, whether you like it or not, is one of the most popular mail clients in a business environment. http://advisor.com/doc/16674 65 percent, according to that impromptu survey. It also has quite a home following, being bundled with things like MS Money and MS Works. For better or for worse, a ton of people (possibly the majority) use Outlook. Who decides what standards are? Oh, that's right, the majority of USERS. You can have all the IEEE guys come up with all the standards they wish they could program; if no one adopts them, the standard is bunk. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric (Deacon) Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 11:39 PM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line! In a bold display of creativity, Glenn Shannon wrote: Of course, next comes the debate about top-posting like this is friggin usenet or something. Rarely an issue except in extreme circumstances. Outlook 2003 displays the threads separately. No, it separates threads based on subject line. Is this in your thread? It will be for me. I suggest you update your mail client so it can handle small idiosyncrasies for you automatically so you don't get your panties in a bind every time you check your mail. Right. I'll look for a paragon of standards compliance and best practices like Outlook in order to offset your own inadequacies because you're too inconsiderate (no longer just ignorant) to do so yourself. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
He DID explain it to you by showing you that the message's headers were the same, yet you decided to continue being stubborn/ignorant and thinking a new thread was equal to clicking on your outlook new message/reply button and changing the subject linewhatever. /p Quoting Dagok [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Nobody has said that you or Eric should be using Outlook. Its actually the other way around, Eric has stated that we should change our email software to suit him. My point below was to make it clear (appearently it went right over your head) that not everyone is going to know that some people view this in a threaded view and that changing the subject line while replying to another thread is still going to keep it attached to the previous thread topic. So next time time Eric should maybe explain the problem instead of being rude to the person and telling him to create a new topic when it looked to most people that he had. Dagok - Original Message - From: Andrew Forsberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 1:52 AM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line! Dagok wrote: Obviously he didnt know when he did it, nor did I until it was pointed out in this thread. So how is that knowingly? My cl_care cvar for this subject is rapidly approaching 0, however -- your and Glenn's point of view appears to be that we should be using Outlook. This implies that it is everyone else's problem that elementary list etiquette isn't required. I say 'knowingly', since you're also complaining about Eric 'bitching' about this sort of thing. Ben K in particular has posted on the same subject many times recently. It's not such a difficult concept to grasp. But whatever... back to work. -Andrew ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
--On Monday, November 28, 2005 1:18 AM -0600 Eric (Deacon) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are no high horses, here, only basic requests for decency. It's too bad this isn't a newsgroup. Then we could killfile entire threads we find boring, and anyone who insisted on starting a new thread as a reply to a boring thread would simply be ignored by those who might help him. The point of Eric's post is to show how *not* to be ignored. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
Oh come now, he hasn't beaten that dead horse enought yet. He has at least 50 posts remaining before he gives in. Crazy_One ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
Hey Eric, get off your high horse and open your eyes. Majority of people do not view the mailing lists in a threaded view. Instead they view them as normal emails. Because you do view them in a threaded view does not make you special. Now get over it and move on. Dagok - Original Message - From: Eric (Deacon) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 10:38 PM Subject: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line! In a bold display of creativity, Glenn Shannon wrote: Of course, next comes the debate about top-posting like this is friggin usenet or something. Rarely an issue except in extreme circumstances. Outlook 2003 displays the threads separately. No, it separates threads based on subject line. Is this in your thread? It will be for me. I suggest you update your mail client so it can handle small idiosyncrasies for you automatically so you don't get your panties in a bind every time you check your mail. Right. I'll look for a paragon of standards compliance and best practices like Outlook in order to offset your own inadequacies because you're too inconsiderate (no longer just ignorant) to do so yourself. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Oh no a new subject line!
In a bold display of creativity, Dagok wrote: Majority of people do not view the mailing lists in a threaded view. Instead they view them as normal emails. Even assuming this speculation is true, how does that excuse you? Because you do view them in a threaded view does not make you special. Now get over it and move on. The fact that you don't view the discussions in their respective threads does, however, make *you* special? Come on. Give me a break. There is no good excuse for a willful dismissal of nearly effortless etiquette, consideration, and basic common courtesy, whether laziness or pure self-centered pig-headedness. There are no high horses, here, only basic requests for decency. Ignorance can be cured and is no slight. Obnoxious jackass, on the other hand, is something you're *choosing* here. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
