[Hornlist] RE: on the streets (was 2 horns and strings)
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[Hornlist] RE: on the streets (was 2 horns and strings)
Original Message
Subject: on the streets (was 2 horns and strings)
From: Leonard Peggy Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, October 24, 2008 8:35 am
To: horn list memphis horn@music.memphis.edu
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Carl Bangs writes:
A movement from an early Haydn symphony might work. I used to play
number 18 with a string quartet on the streets in San Francisco. The
oboe
parts merely double the strings.
Carl,
Is there a living playing on the streets? I guess I mean, is it for
love
or money? What is the experience like?
LLB the streets of Laredo
Leonard,
I'll try to send this again. I apologize if this is a repetition.
This was in the mid 1970's when I lived in Berkeley. I would have made
more money with almost any non-music job, but I wouldn't have had as
much fun. With a combination of free-lance jobs, un-employment
insurance, and street music I survived, started an orchestra which I
conducted for 15 years, married a couple of wives (not simultaneously
this time), and bought my first house. I think we averaged about $5 an
hour for time on the street, but it was really advertising for the gigs
that paid well, weddings, parties, etc.
I had three street music groups simultaneously so I could work almost
every day. One was Emperor Norton's Imperial Orchestra, a string
quartet plus horn. There was a brass quintet, and a woodwind quintet
called the Gottlieb Quintet that played mostly Mozart Divertimenti. Our
theory was that Mozart was so good that he had to be Jewish, but that he
changed his name to Amadeus when he got into show business. We had to
explain this to people who were disappointed to learn that Lou was not a
member of our quintet. Our favorite place to play was outside Doubleday
Bookstore.
I remember one day just after I had put my horn away, someone asked me
if it were some kind of electric guitar. I replied No, it's
pneumatic.
On Friday afternoons all the street musicians got together to put on an
orchestra concert at the Civic Center and Ghirardelli Square.
The way the economy is now I may return to the streets.
Carl
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Re: [Hornlist] Konzertst ü ck Problem, Part 2
The Schumann Konzertstueck thread: Yes, there is a 4-horns-only-score, also a piano reduction a conductor score, published earlier by KaWeAmsterdam, which is part of my publishing, since I acquired this company after the death of Klaas Weelink 1983. This piece has not been written for the average hornplayer. It has not been written for the average professional hornplayer, at least the first two solohorns. It also has not been written for the very good prefessional hornplayers, but for the very best of the best professional hornplayers. What seems so difficult in the first part, seen from modern composers eyes ? The chromatic, used by Schumann ? Why at all ? Nothing special. All is within the common natural horn technique. But how should a composer, who is not a very specialized hornplayer of outstanding qualities know that ? No way ! Most hornplayers do not believe such technique was possible on the simple handhorn. Did they or do they believe, that all the Wagner- and Richard Strauss- and Mahler-stuff be possible on the single Viennese F horn ? How should they believe it be possible, to play op.86 on the handhorn ? But I might say as excuse, that the same happen in other fields of life. To the composers on the list: should a composer implement all possible effects, the full compass with the extreme high the extreme low notes on the horn in his or her compositions ? Certainly not ! If he or she has an equal superb knowledge of the horn technique as had Richard Strauss, well, keep on writing one piece better than the other. If the effects or the extreme compass would be necessary to pep up the pieces because of lack of imaginative power, better quit. We have enough garbage pieces, which only look interesting for the musicologue or from graphical view. And we need more good pieces for the average player, not competition pieces of greatest difficulty. Furthermore: I am missing melodic lines on most contemp solo pieces. A last word to the musicologists: Nobody can expect, that they were specialists for all instruments. Nobody can be a specialist for more than one instrument (the related instruments included; for the horn: wagnertuba, descant, Viennese, handhorn, parforcehorn, double, etc.). And most musicologists are not be found at high professional level of that particular instrument. The result is the rather amateurish approach to the interpretative technique of the instrument. Moral: the musicologists should much better listen to the very high classified instrumentalists, but not take everything as bare truth. If they listen better to the high qualified instrumentalists evaluated their (the instrumentalists) explanations, statements etc. with their (muscologists) critical view, they would be right on of highest value for all musicians. Regards from Hot Spa (46 centigrades) in SW Thailand,enjoying retirement Hans -- SigfridFafner the under ground horn player from Vienna ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Beethoven #1, Horn in C - Alto or Basso?
I was looking at a score of Beethoven Symphony #1 and saw a pair of horns in C - does one assume this to be concert pitch (up a fifth) or C basso (down a fourth and therefore 1 octave below concert pitch) from the usual Horn in F? Just from the looks of the part, I am guessing it's C-basso. I don't know this symphony very well, I'm afraid, and I've never played it on the horn, but I can say that it would be, at least for me, so high as to be impossible to play in C-alto. (Unless I've misunderstood, which is completely possible, how these transpositions work.) The score I was looking at is here http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/c/cc/IMSLP13842-Beethoven_-_Symphony_N o.1__Mvt.I__ed._Unger_.pdf Thanks in advance. -S- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1710 - Release Date: 10/28/2008 10:04 AM ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Beethoven #1, Horn in C - Alto or Basso?
Basso. As a rough rule of thumb, take Bb as a point of demarcation. Transpositions between F and Bb above (F#, G, A, Bb alto) transpose UP. Those between F and Bb below (E, Eb, D, C, B/H, Bb Basso), transpose DOWN. ALL horn transpositions sound lower than concert pitch. There are some exceptions to this general rule, as discussed from time to time on the list, but this starting point, and some common sense, will cover most cases. Kjellrun On 28-Oct-08, at 2:06 PM, Steve Freides wrote: I was looking at a score of Beethoven Symphony #1 and saw a pair of horns in C - does one assume this to be concert pitch (up a fifth) or C basso (down a fourth and therefore 1 octave below concert pitch) from the usual Horn in F? Just from the looks of the part, I am guessing it's C-basso. I don't know this symphony very well, I'm afraid, and I've never played it on the horn, but I can say that it would be, at least for me, so high as to be impossible to play in C-alto. (Unless I've misunderstood, which is completely possible, how these transpositions work.) The score I was looking at is here http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/c/cc/IMSLP13842-Beethoven_- _Symphony_N o.1__Mvt.I__ed._Unger_.pdf Thanks in advance. -S- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1710 - Release Date: 10/28/2008 10:04 AM ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hestekin%40mun.ca Kjellrun K. Hestekin School of Music Memorial University St. John's, NL Canada A1C 5S7 ph: (709) 737 - 8466 fax 709 737 2666 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Beethoven #1, Horn in C - Alto or Basso?
Beethoven 1 is Horn in C basso, down a P4 for playing a horn in F. Paul Mansur On Oct 28, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Steve Freides wrote: I was looking at a score of Beethoven Symphony #1 and saw a pair of horns in C - does one assume this to be concert pitch (up a fifth) or C basso (down a fourth and therefore 1 octave below concert pitch) from the usual Horn in F? Just from the looks of the part, I am guessing it's C-basso. I don't know this symphony very well, I'm afraid, and I've never played it on the horn, but I can say that it would be, at least for me, so high as to be impossible to play in C-alto. (Unless I've misunderstood, which is completely possible, how these transpositions work.) The score I was looking at is here http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/c/cc/IMSLP13842-Beethoven_- _Symphony_N o.1__Mvt.I__ed._Unger_.pdf Thanks in advance. -S- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1710 - Release Date: 10/28/2008 10:04 AM ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/ options/horn/p_mansur1%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Beethoven #1, Horn in C - Alto or Basso?
Thank you and thanks to Kjellrun for your replies. -S- -Original Message- From: Paul Mansur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 12:51 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Beethoven #1, Horn in C - Alto or Basso? Beethoven 1 is Horn in C basso, down a P4 for playing a horn in F. Paul Mansur On Oct 28, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Steve Freides wrote: I was looking at a score of Beethoven Symphony #1 and saw a pair of horns in C - does one assume this to be concert pitch (up a fifth) or C basso (down a fourth and therefore 1 octave below concert pitch) from the usual Horn in F? Just from the looks of the part, I am guessing it's C-basso. I don't know this symphony very well, I'm afraid, and I've never played it on the horn, but I can say that it would be, at least for me, so high as to be impossible to play in C-alto. (Unless I've misunderstood, which is completely possible, how these transpositions work.) The score I was looking at is here http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/c/cc/IMSLP13842-Beethoven_- _Symphony_N o.1__Mvt.I__ed._Unger_.pdf Thanks in advance. -S- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1710 - Release Date: 10/28/2008 10:04 AM ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/ options/horn/p_mansur1%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steve%40fridays computer.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1710 - Release Date: 10/28/2008 10:04 AM ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Beethoven #1, Horn in C - Alto or Basso?
Hello Steve, Kjellruns tumb rules are valid with the exception of C-alto, which is not explicitely noted such. This special transposition is found in certain Haydn ouvertures, in Mozarts Idomeneo etc. but rarely i the music of the 19th cent. You have well noted, that the horn parts would be far too high, if they were in C-alto (sound as written) in Beethoven no.1. So you are right. The horn parts of this symphony are rather simple. High horns are in Beethovens no.2 (A) and No.7 (A) with prominent solo spots. The no.4 has one entrance with high Bb, but the part is in Eb, so noted as high c. I´ll answer your mouthpiece question as soon as back home late next week. You should remember, that I am retired since April last year. BTW: will expect the first snow back home, but arriving from a quite hot country (Thaiand), where we enjoy the hot spa. Greetings Hans -- SigfridFafner the under ground horn player from Vienna ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] How to Practice
Can anyone suggest a reading list of books that deal specifically with 'how= ' to approach practicing the horn, not 'what' to practice? Michael Hoeltzel devotes a chapter to The Art of Practicing in his Mastery of the French Horn. He not only discusses effective practice methods, but also gives you his full transcription of Mozart's Solfeggio in E flat major K. 393, before breaking it down into short incipits with a keen eye towards improving phrasing and mechanics (his suggestions at various points include practicing a difficult phrase in reverse, or in B flat basso on the F horn side). The book's published by Schott and distributed widely in North America (Amazon, etc.) by Hal Leonard. Bill Melton Hauset (B) / Sinfonie Orchester Aachen (D) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Bayreuth Horn players 1930/31
I'm now looking at a couple of booklet/handbooks (way too hefty to be simply called programs) from the Bayreuth Festival seasons of 1930 and 1931. Each has a quadruple fold-out list of the cast and orchestra (conductors - Furtwaengler, Muck, Toscanini, Elmendorff, S. Wagner). With 2 complete Rings, plus a combined 13 performances of Parsifal, Tristan and Tannhaeuser, it is not surprising to see that 10 horn players (plus 4 Tenor- und Bass- Tuba) were under contract. In 1930, Adolf Buhl, Albert Doescher, Gustav Hahn, Karl Kisch, Ernst Koch, Hermann Triegel, Willi Weber, Hans Westermann, Roert Zenner and Max Zimolong were the horns. In 31, Paul Rembt and Engelbert Nemec appear in place of Buhl and Weber. The Tuba players in both years were Franz Koller, Hans Koller, Hermann Moissl, and Anton Stark, all of Vienna. Max Zimolong is the only name that I have encountered before, but there is an affiliation listed for most of the players that gives a bit of context. I don't suppose anyone out there knows more about any of these hornists of old (with Hans having a good long soak in Indo-China, I guess I may have to wait for enlightenment in this area). Schuss, Peter Hirsch ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
