Re: Question on 64 bit

2008-01-30 Thread Chase, John
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Stephen Y Odo
> 
> Same here ... we started on our "5-year plan" to migrate off 
> of the mainframe ... about 17 years ago ...
> 
> We're now down to our last big application on the mainframe 
> ... and are scheduled to decommission our mainframe at the 
> end of this year.  But I heard we ran into a snag with the 
> replacement system.  So was told to plan on keeping the 
> mainframe running 'til around 2011.  So we're now working on 
> upgrading from z/OS 1.4 to 1.7 and then to 1.9 this year to 
> keep current.  Wonder if we'll need new hardware before we're finally 
> ready to decommission the mainframe?   ;->

Well, since you "obviously" have a "zSomething" right now (else you
could not contemplate z/OS 1.7 et seq.), you might want to wait a bit to
upgrade your hardware:  "Rumor" has it that z6-based machinery will
become available "soon".  :-)

-jc-

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Re: Question on 64 bit

2008-01-29 Thread Ted MacNEIL
I know it's bad form to reply to your own posts; I wish to clarify.
Since, 1.4 is no longer supported, technically its co-existance is no longer 
supported with any release.
But, we know it does work with 1.7.

But, your biggest problem is going to be ISV software.
And, a 2-year gap is going to be huge to overcome.


>>Well I still want to go to 1.7 before 1.9. Since I have not really touched 
>>z/OS in two years.

>You should do that anyways.
>1.4 co-existance with anything higher than 1.7 is not supported.

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Re: Question on 64 bit

2008-01-29 Thread Ted MacNEIL
>Well I still want to go to 1.7 before 1.9. Since I have not really touched 
>z/OS in two years.

You should do that anyways.
1.4 co-existance with anything higher than 1.7 is not supported.

-
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Re: Question on 64 bit

2008-01-29 Thread Pat Mihalec
Well I still want to go to 1.7 before 1.9. Since I have not really touched 
z/OS in two years.

Pat Mihalec
Rush University Medical Center
Senior System Programmer
(312) 942-8386
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Question on 64 bit

2008-01-29 Thread Ted MacNEIL
>Same here ... we started on our "5-year plan" to migrate off of the mainframe 
>... about 17 years ago ...

The company I used to work for, figured it would be 5 years and $100,000,000.
Then they outsourced appdev to an Indian company that never learned how the 
applications truly worked and downsized the few techies that were left.

They don't have the knowledge base to convert, or maintain.
The mainframe will go away to the atrophy of the remainin skills -- especially 
the business knowledge.

-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

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Re: Question on 64 bit

2008-01-29 Thread Mark Jacobs
Actually 1.7 end of support is September 30, 2008.

Mark jacobs 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Pat Mihalec
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 4:56 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Question on 64 bit

No, I ordered 1.7 when I still could, just in case. I plan to upgrade to
1.7, knowing that it will be out of support next year. Before the brakes
were put on we had upgraded everything with plans to jump to 64 then
1.7. 
Since there are only two of us doing this I am going to stick with that
plan.

Pat Mihalec
Rush University Medical Center
Senior System Programmer
(312) 942-8386
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Tom Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
01/29/2008 03:52 PM

To
IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU, Pat Mihalec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc Tom Schmidt
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject
Re: Question on 64 bit






...so are you going to jump from z/OS 1.4 to 1.9 ?  Or 1.8? 
 
--
Tom Schmidt 
 



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Re: Question on 64 bit

2008-01-29 Thread Stephen Y Odo
Same here ... we started on our "5-year plan" to migrate off of the 
mainframe ... about 17 years ago ...


We're now down to our last big application on the mainframe ... and are 
scheduled to decommission our mainframe at the end of this year.  But I 
heard we ran into a snag with the replacement system.  So was told to 
plan on keeping the mainframe running 'til around 2011.  So we're now 
working on upgrading from z/OS 1.4 to 1.7 and then to 1.9 this year to 
keep current.  Wonder if we'll need new hardware before we're finally 
ready to decommission the mainframe?   ;->


--Stephen




Ted MacNEIL wrote:

The current management plans to allow z/OS to die a natural death of old age



They may die of old age first.
I have been waiting for the 'death of the mainframe' for over 20 years.
Why do we upgrade every 6 months on a dying platform.
And, generate millions of lines of COBOL every year?


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Re: Question on 64 bit

2008-01-29 Thread Ted MacNEIL
>The current management plans to allow z/OS to die a natural death of old age

They may die of old age first.
I have been waiting for the 'death of the mainframe' for over 20 years.
Why do we upgrade every 6 months on a dying platform.
And, generate millions of lines of COBOL every year?

-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

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Re: Question on 64 bit

2008-01-29 Thread McKown, John
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tony babonas
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 3:53 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Question on 64 bit
> 
> 
> Dontcha love it when the platform stays and the management 
> leaves.  :-)

Yes. We've done that twice now. And the mainframe (z/OS) continues to be
the main, mission critical, server. The previous administration was
going to convert everything on the mainframe to Windows in 9 months. The
current management plans to allow z/OS to die a natural death of old age
(3 to 5 years by their estimate), but is converting a number of Windows
systems to Linux.

--
John McKown
Senior Systems Programmer
HealthMarkets
Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
Administrative Services Group
Information Technology

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Re: Question on 64 bit

2008-01-29 Thread Pat Mihalec
No, I ordered 1.7 when I still could, just in case. I plan to upgrade to 
1.7, knowing that it will be out of support next year. Before the brakes 
were put on we had upgraded everything with plans to jump to 64 then 1.7. 
Since there are only two of us doing this I am going to stick with that 
plan.

Pat Mihalec
Rush University Medical Center
Senior System Programmer
(312) 942-8386
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Tom Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
01/29/2008 03:52 PM

To
IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU, Pat Mihalec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc
Tom Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject
Re: Question on 64 bit






...so are you going to jump from z/OS 1.4 to 1.9 ?  Or 1.8? 
 
-- 
Tom Schmidt 
 



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Re: Question on 64 bit

2008-01-29 Thread tony babonas
Dontcha love it when the platform stays and the management leaves.  :-)


 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Pat Mihalec
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 3:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Question on 64 bit

Thanks, we have not done any upgrades to the Mainframe in over two years. 
My memory cells were very fuzzy on this. I had changed the memory but had 
not IPL'd. We just did that now and all is looking good.
The management that was here has left. The decision has been made that the 
cpu will remain here for at least 3 more years and the current management 
agrees living on unsupported software for that long is not a good idea.
Now I get to take off my new Unix hat and put the MVS hat back on. 

Pat Mihalec
Rush University Medical Center
Senior System Programmer
(312) 942-8386
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



"McKown, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
01/29/2008 03:29 PM
Please respond to
IBM Mainframe Discussion List 


To
IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
cc

Subject
Re: Question on 64 bit






> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 3:13 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Question on 64 bit
> 
> 
> >I am planning on doing a POR so that I can set the memory 
> for the Tech LPAR for no expanded and IPL it for 64 bit 
> processing. Can I setup the PROD LPAR so that when I'm ready 
> to IPL it to 64 byte I just need to do the IPL and not a second POR?
> 
> You don't need a POR, at all.
> Just change the address mode and memory settings, de-activate 
> and re-activate each LPAR, as you move forward.

And you don't even absolutely __need__ to do a deactivate and activate,
just change to 64 bit mode in the LOAD member. If your LPAR defination
has XSTOR in 64 bit mode, you'll just get a whining message at IPL time
and the XSTOR is ignored.

--
John McKown
Senior Systems Programmer
HealthMarkets
Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
Administrative Services Group
Information Technology

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Re: Question on 64 bit

2008-01-29 Thread Tom Schmidt
...so are you going to jump from z/OS 1.4 to 1.9 ?  Or 1.8?  
 
-- 
Tom Schmidt 
 

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Re: Question on 64 bit

2008-01-29 Thread Pat Mihalec
Thanks, we have not done any upgrades to the Mainframe in over two years. 
My memory cells were very fuzzy on this. I had changed the memory but had 
not IPL'd. We just did that now and all is looking good.
The management that was here has left. The decision has been made that the 
cpu will remain here for at least 3 more years and the current management 
agrees living on unsupported software for that long is not a good idea.
Now I get to take off my new Unix hat and put the MVS hat back on. 

Pat Mihalec
Rush University Medical Center
Senior System Programmer
(312) 942-8386
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



"McKown, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
01/29/2008 03:29 PM
Please respond to
IBM Mainframe Discussion List 


To
IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
cc

Subject
Re: Question on 64 bit






> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 3:13 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Question on 64 bit
> 
> 
> >I am planning on doing a POR so that I can set the memory 
> for the Tech LPAR for no expanded and IPL it for 64 bit 
> processing. Can I setup the PROD LPAR so that when I'm ready 
> to IPL it to 64 byte I just need to do the IPL and not a second POR?
> 
> You don't need a POR, at all.
> Just change the address mode and memory settings, de-activate 
> and re-activate each LPAR, as you move forward.

And you don't even absolutely __need__ to do a deactivate and activate,
just change to 64 bit mode in the LOAD member. If your LPAR defination
has XSTOR in 64 bit mode, you'll just get a whining message at IPL time
and the XSTOR is ignored.

--
John McKown
Senior Systems Programmer
HealthMarkets
Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
Administrative Services Group
Information Technology

The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged
and/or confidential.  It is for intended addressee(s) only.  If you are
not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
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Re: Question on 64 bit

2008-01-29 Thread Ted MacNEIL
>If your LPAR defination has XSTOR in 64 bit mode, you'll just get a whining 
>message at IPL time and the XSTOR is ignored.

You'll get more than that!
We had a large IMS/DB2 environment that went from 10GB (2C/8E) to 2GB (ignored 
the XSTOR).
Paging went through the roof; the AUX couldn't handle it; transactions died; 
eventually the sub-systems crashed.

So, yes, you DO need to de/re-activate and change the definition in a large 
online environment!

-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

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Re: Question on 64 bit

2008-01-29 Thread McKown, John
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 3:13 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Question on 64 bit
> 
> 
> >I am planning on doing a POR so that I can set the memory 
> for the Tech LPAR for no expanded and IPL it for 64 bit 
> processing. Can I setup the PROD LPAR so that when I'm ready 
> to IPL it to 64 byte I just need to do the IPL and not a second POR?
> 
> You don't need a POR, at all.
> Just change the address mode and memory settings, de-activate 
> and re-activate each LPAR, as you move forward.

And you don't even absolutely __need__ to do a deactivate and activate,
just change to 64 bit mode in the LOAD member. If your LPAR defination
has XSTOR in 64 bit mode, you'll just get a whining message at IPL time
and the XSTOR is ignored.

--
John McKown
Senior Systems Programmer
HealthMarkets
Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
Administrative Services Group
Information Technology

The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged
and/or confidential.  It is for intended addressee(s) only.  If you are
not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
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Re: Question on 64 bit

2008-01-29 Thread Ted MacNEIL
>I am planning on doing a POR so that I can set the memory for the Tech LPAR 
>for no expanded and IPL it for 64 bit processing. Can I setup the PROD LPAR so 
>that when I'm ready to IPL it to 64 byte I just need to do the IPL and not a 
>second POR?

You don't need a POR, at all.
Just change the address mode and memory settings, de-activate and re-activate 
each LPAR, as you move forward.

-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

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Re: Question on 64 bit

2008-01-29 Thread Mark Jacobs
Pat Mihalec wrote:
> I know I'm behind the curve, but management is to blame. I am currently 
> running z/OS 1.4 in 32 byte. I think they are going to let me upgrade, at 
> last.
> The question I need assistance on is this: I am planning on doing a POR so 
> that I can set the memory for the Tech LPAR for no expanded and IPL it for 
> 64 bit processing. Can I setup the PROD LPAR so that when I'm ready to IPL 
> it to 64 byte I just need to do the IPL and not a second POR?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Pat Mihalec
> Rush University Medical Center
> Senior System Programmer
> (312) 942-8386
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>   
You don't need to POR the box. Just deactivate the LPAR, change the
storage allocations in the HMC for the lpar and reactivate/ipl.

If you have ARCHLVL in LOADxx make sure that it specifies 2 (Or take it
out altogether)

-- 
Mark Jacobs
Time Customer Service
Tampa, FL


Riley: Find the next number in the sequence: 313, 331, 367, ...? what?

The Doctor: 379. It's a sequence of happy primes, 379.

Martha: Happy what?

The Doctor: Just enter it!

Riley: Are you sure? We only get one chance.

The Doctor: Any number that reduces to one when you take the sum of 
the square of its digits and continue iterating until it yields 1 is 
a happy number, any number that doesn't, isn't. A happy prime is 
both happy and prime. 

Doctor Who episode "42"

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Question on 64 bit

2008-01-29 Thread Pat Mihalec
I know I'm behind the curve, but management is to blame. I am currently 
running z/OS 1.4 in 32 byte. I think they are going to let me upgrade, at 
last.
The question I need assistance on is this: I am planning on doing a POR so 
that I can set the memory for the Tech LPAR for no expanded and IPL it for 
64 bit processing. Can I setup the PROD LPAR so that when I'm ready to IPL 
it to 64 byte I just need to do the IPL and not a second POR?

Thanks in advance.

Pat Mihalec
Rush University Medical Center
Senior System Programmer
(312) 942-8386
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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