Re: JOSM Translations
On 19/02/2017 13:19, Dirk Stöcker wrote: I think the main problem is that people aren't aware they could help and are needed to do so. Maybe post your message in the general list? There may be able translators there who do not read this newsgroup.
Re: JOSM Translations
First thing is get rid of Launchpad and finish what was started with the move to Transifex. The launchpad UI is terrible, especially when you face OOPS errors every time you search something. I myself completely gave up with the translation effort because of it, so I presume I am not the only one. Then one possible outcome would be to promote translation from JOSM itself. Maybe something like what it is done with Jenkins: https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Translation+Assistance+Plugin 2017-02-19 15:31 GMT+01:00 Malcolm Herring : > On 19/02/2017 13:19, Dirk Stöcker wrote: > >> I think the main problem is that people aren't aware they could help and >> are needed to do so. >> > > Maybe post your message in the general list? There may be able translators > there who do not read this newsgroup. > > >
Re: JOSM Translations
On 2017-02-19 at 14:19 +0100 Dirk Stöcker wrote: I had a look at our translation statistics recently and I find it awful, that there is no real progress to see, compared to the situation a few years ago. Does anybody have ideas how more translators could be attracted for the languages which have many missing texts? We do daily text uploads and although launchpad has issues from time to time it usually is stable. The tools exist. I think the main problem is that people aren't aware they could help and are needed to do so. Hi, It would be interesting to know how important translations are. Maybe it is okay for most of the users to use the English version. I think one of the issues is the enormous number of strings. We reached 1 a few weeks ago. And there is a pretty high update frequency. You need days to catch up if no translation was done for a few months. Another issue is the quality of the strings. Some source strings are not English (but French, Dutch, Polish, etc), have unknown acronyms in it, or it's just not clear what the string is about. That mainly affects plugins and the imagery. I sometimes open a ticket if the quality is bad. JOSM core tickets are resolved promptly, but plugin authors are lazy or don't respond at all. There is no good way to address issues with the imagery strings (there is actually no way). Launchpad has issues all the time. It was okay for a while, but now the timeout error is back again, I get it every time I translate something. What's really missing is the possibility to comment a string to add hints for other translators. One solution could be to separate the JOSM core strings from the plugin and imagery strings. Then translators can concentrate on the JOSM core, it would reduce the timeout errors, and it becomes doable to actually translate all (core) strings. Plugins are a different topic. I think there is no way to attract people to translate a large number of strings that nobody will ever read. An idea would be to rank the untranslated strings by the number of plugin installations (do we know this?) to start with the important strings. But Launchpad sorts them alphabetically, not by importance. For the imagery strings I opened ticket #12179, but it looks like no one is interested to improve the current situation. Holger
Re: JOSM Translations
I think the main point is Launchpad. It is completely unusable. Last time I even needed to request the po file download link twice, just to check a single translation string. The websearch did't work at all. The second point is, that we need some groups. I think the users want to start to translate the presets and the main menu entries and not some cryptic error messages, they don't understand and therefore are not able to translate them, even if they want to. Best Regards, Stefan --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Re: JOSM Translations
2017-02-19 18:38 GMT+01:00 Holger Mappt : > It would be interesting to know how important translations are. Maybe it > is okay for most of the users to use the English version. if you can understand English it is IMHO preferable to use JOSM in en even if your language is completely translated, because many terms can be easier recognized and tags can be found easier if you see them in the actual language, and you don't face potential translation inconsistencies (e.g. a node can be a "Knoten", "Node", "Punkt" etc. in German). It also helps to contribute bug issues, ask a wider audience for specific help, etc. But if you don't understand English a local translation is obviously needed. One problem is maybe that translations are not needed by those who are able to provide them (nobody is scratching his own itch here) ;-) I admit I have copied the initial message from Dirk to talk, thinking that indeed there might be people around of those languages with missing translations, not knowing that help could be needed but willing to give a hand: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-February/077579.html I excuse if this was premature... Cheers, Martin
Re: JOSM Translations
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017, Holger Mappt wrote: It would be interesting to know how important translations are. Maybe it is okay for most of the users to use the English version. The last days: 8079 (31.7%) en 5489 (21.5%) de 2615 (10.3%) ru 2157 ( 8.5%) fr 1541 ( 6.0%) en_GB 1018 ( 4.0%) es 849 ( 3.3%) it 709 ( 2.8%) pl 468 ( 1.8%) ja 426 ( 1.7%) nl 311 ( 1.2%) zh_TW 309 ( 1.2%) pt_BR 239 ( 0.9%) zh_CN 223 ( 0.9%) cs 186 ( 0.7%) en_AU 175 ( 0.7%) hu 126 ( 0.5%) sv 101 ( 0.4%) id 92 ( 0.4%) uk 81 ( 0.3%) sk 57 ( 0.2%) da 49 ( 0.2%) fi 48 ( 0.2%) pt 45 ( 0.2%) ca 39 ( 0.2%) lt 31 ( 0.1%) el 17 ( 0.1%) nb 5 ( 0.0%) be 3 ( 0.0%) tr 3 ( 0.0%) bg 2 ( 0.0%) et 2 ( 0.0%) gl 1 ( 0.0%) vi 1 ( 0.0%) ast 62% use a non-english version. That number would probably be higher if the translations in some languages would be better. I think one of the issues is the enormous number of strings. We reached 1 a few weeks ago. And there is a pretty high update frequency. You need days to catch up if no translation was done for a few months. Yes. That's obvious. That burden can only be reduced when distributed to more shoulders (althought single people did translate thousands of texts). Here everybody with more than 3000 translations: 14921 - pitort - ca = 7959 - ca@valencia= 6962 10844 - andygol- ru = 290 - uk =10554 10486 - Viktar Palsciuk- be =10486 10451 - mmyfl - zh_CN=10451 10195 - Dirk Stöcker - de = 5146 (others: many languages as fixes) 10080 - aceman444 - cs = 5220 - sk = 4860 8594 - Minh Nguyễn- vi = 8594 8132 - DiGro - nl = 8132 7543 - edrux - ast = 7524 - es = 19 7512 - Davide Prade - it = 7512 7441 - RPome - pt = 7441 6726 - fujimoto - ja = 6726 6186 - Casiope 5972 - Chao-Hsiung Liao - zh_TW= 5972 5698 - Jørn - da = 5698 5694 - Dalibor Jelínek- cs = 5693 - sk =1 5656 - Báthory Péter - hu = 5656 5633 - Casiope- fr = 5633 5335 - Felipe L. - pt_BR= 5335 4710 - Vlado - sk = 4710 4562 - Dee-earlsoft - en_GB= 4562 3873 - Emilio Gomez Fernandez - es = 3872 - fr =1 3858 - Sophea Sok - km = 3858 3720 - Aleksey Kabanov- ru = 3720 3584 - Robert Readman - en_AU= 3266 - en_GB= 318 3309 - Ettore Atalan - de = 3309 3110 - Rui- pt = 3110 3097 - Hiroshi Miura - ja = 3097 3035 - Vitor George - pt_BR= 3035 Another issue is the quality of the strings. Some source strings are not English (but French, Dutch, Polish, etc), have unknown acronyms in it, or These are bugs and should be fixed. it's just not clear what the string is about. That mainly affects plugins and the imagery. I sometimes open a ticket if the quality is bad. JOSM core tickets are resolved promptly, but plugin authors are lazy or don't respond Yes. That's an issue. The success of JOSM has some drawbacks and unmaintained plugins is one of them. The core developers try to manage them, but we already have lots of core issues. No solution for this ATM. For things like translating issues tickets should nevertheless be opened. They are usually easy to fix and thus also easy to handle by the core team. at all. There is no good way to address issues with the imagery strings (there is actually no way). See answers in related ticket #12179. One solution could be to separate the JOSM core strings from the plugin and imagery strings. Then translators can concentrate on the JOSM core, it would reduce the timeout errors, and it becomes doable to actually translate all (core) strings. The other solution would be the long discussed migration to transifex. It includes also the splitting in 3 string groups. Plugins are a different topic. I think there is no way to attract people to translate a large number of strings that nobody will ever read. An idea would be to rank the untranslated strings by the number of plugin installations (do we know this?) to start with the important strings. But Launchpad sorts them alphabetically, not by importance. Oh. We know EVERYTHING :-) Don't ask me why this list has reversed order to the languages though - probably I implemented them at different times... 4 (* 0.1%) NanoLog 10 (* 0.2%) matsim 15 (* 0.2%) videomapping 22 (* 0.3%) sds 27 (* 0.4%) globalsat 32 (* 0.5%) czechaddress 35 (* 0.6%) michigan_left 35 (* 0.6%) epci-fr 37 (* 0.6%) plastic_laf 38 (* 0.6%) native_password_manager 41 (* 0.6%) wms-turbo-challenge2 45 (* 0.7%) canvec_helper 46 (* 0.7%) scoutsigns 48 (* 0.8%) OSMRecPlugin 48 (* 0.8%) surveyor 50 (* 0.8%) touchscreenhelper 51 (* 0.8%) o5m 51 (* 0.8%) pointInfo 51 (* 0.8%) TombPlug
Re: JOSM Translations
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: I admit I have copied the initial message from Dirk to talk, thinking that indeed there might be people around of those languages with missing translations, not knowing that help could be needed but willing to give a hand: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-February/077579.html I excuse if this was premature... I'm not subscribed to any other list anymore, so feel free to spread the word. Everthing which helps to improve the situation is welcome. Sanitizing my language I have seen :-) Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available)