Re: [Libreoffice-qa] moztrap documentation feedback

2013-04-10 Thread Yifan Jiang
Hi Petr, Thomas,

On Tue, Apr 09, 2013 at 01:17:37PM +0200, Petr Mladek wrote:
   And I seem to remember (from the ToDo list, I think ... ;) )
  that an import of old test cases is planned. What is the status here?
  Are translations of them are imported as well?
 
 AFAIK, Yi Fan already ported all useful test cases. I think that he
 ignored some trivial tests that did not make much sense. But I might be
 wrong.

Yes, the status is done :) We have migrated old cases from Litmus and
got them updated to Moztrap with merging duplicated steps or cases as
well as wording revising.

  2. How do I get my translated test cases in a test run? A short test
  during my translation shows me, that they were not in there ... :( Or
  does someone have to prove them first and then they get active?
 
 I am afraid that this is related to the branches. If you modify the text
 in the branch 0 it is not automatically updated in other branches. I
 am not sure if there is a way to synchronize this. Yi Fan?

Usually when we have a newly added test case translation in version 0,
it will take effect as a new version is created, which is copied from
test case version 0.

By the fact a test cases in a test run is bound to a specific version,
to make the translation taking effect for an existed test run, we need
to update the test case content for a speific version more than for
version 0 only. That is to say, switch to the right test case version
then paste the newly added translation from version 0 :)

Best wishes,
Yifan

-- 
  Yifan Jiang
  Libreoffice / SUSE
  Contact: yifan - irc.freenode.net/libreoffice
  =  
  http://www.libreoffice.org/
  http://www.documentfoundation.org/
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Removing LibO 3.3 from Versions dropdown in Bugzilla

2013-04-10 Thread Rainer Bielefeld

Rainer Bielefeld schrieb:


I am thinking about a Version picker cleanup by removing most 3.3.
Versions.


Hi,

unfortunately that only will bring progress for the Bugzilla Version 
Dropdowns, but not for the BSA Vrsion selectors before a fix for Bug 
55460 - BUGZILLAASSISTANT: Exclude inactive versions from version 
selector https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55460


But inactive Versions do not cause Problems for BSA bug submissions for 
those versions, so that BSA problem does not hinder.


CU

Rainer
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[Libreoffice-qa] Master daily builds for Windows are broken

2013-04-10 Thread Pedro
The last successful build is from April 8th at 5 AM.

Dev support needed here :)

Thanks!



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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Lifecycle of builds?

2013-04-10 Thread Michael Meeks
Hi Robinson,

On Tue, 2013-04-09 at 19:52 -0400, Robinson Tryon wrote:
 As Pedro mentioned, and as far as I understand it, our next step is to
 pick an EOL date for each of our builds and then go update the wiki
 pages. I'd be happy to help update the ReleaseNotes wiki pages, or to
 ping pmladek and hand that task over to him.

Well - I guess Petr is the best guy to hack that page :-)

 Mmeeks suggested in this thread that 3.5.x should be considered EOL at
 this point. As the last release (3.5.7) shipped about 6 months ago, I
 suggest 6 months as the standard lifetime for our stable, shipped
 builds.

Seems reasonable - 3.6.x will last a bit longer because of the jump to
4.0 I think; currently planned at 9 months.

Would changing 'Old Releases' to End of Life Releases in:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan

do it ? with a bit of text saying: A release normally has a lifetime
of around six months, however if you want longer term support for a
release, you're encouraged to engaged any certified L3 provider to
provide you with support. or something.

Why add that marketing blurb ? I don't want people to think the code is
un-supportable after 6 months; in fact we (SUSE) continue to support
branches based on old releases for our customers, and the lifetime can
play into product choice decisions.

How does that sound ?

Thanks for following this up !

All the best,

Michael.

-- 
michael.me...@suse.com  , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Lifecycle of builds?

2013-04-10 Thread Pedro
Michael Meeks-2 wrote
   Seems reasonable - 3.6.x will last a bit longer because of the jump to
 4.0 I think; currently planned at 9 months.

So End of Life occurs 6 months after the official release date of the final
release for each branch (usually final version is x.x.7) and occurs after 9
months for the final release before a major version change (e.g from 3.x to
4.x)?

Can it be assumed that the official release date is the date when it is
announced on the official blog?
http://blog.documentfoundation.org/

Therefore EOL for branch 3.5 is on April 18th
(http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2012/10/18/the-document-foundation-announces-libreoffice-3-5-7/),
right?

EOL for branch 3.6 should be removed from the image since release x.x.7
isn't out yet

Does this also mean that 3.4 versions can already be removed from the
bugzilla Version picker? And 3.5 versions after the 18th of this month?

Cheers,
Pedro



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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] [ANN] LibreOffice 3.6.6 RC2 available

2013-04-10 Thread Bjoern Michaelsen
On Tue, Apr 09, 2013 at 09:36:20PM -0400, Dan Lewis wrote:
   Next question. Has there been a change in where LibreOffice is
 located? I installed LibreOffice 3.6.6.2 using the commands you gave
 me above. This installed it in /usr/lib/libreoffice rather than
 /opt/libreoffice3.6.  As a result I have 3.5.6.2 installed as well
 as 3.6.6.2.

/usr/lib/libreoffice is the properly packaged build from Ubuntu/Debian
packaging. /opt/libreoffice is the TDF builds which are backwards compatible
with ancient distros. Dont use them, if you can get properly packaged builds
IMHO.

Best,

Bjoern
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Lifecycle of builds?

2013-04-10 Thread Rainer Bielefeld

Pedro wrote:


Does this also mean that 3.4 versions can already be removed from the
bugzilla Version picker? And 3.5 versions after the 18th of this month?


Hi Pedro,

no, we can't. Version info in BZ should show where the bug appeared (or 
at least has been observed the first time), also see

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugReport_Details#Version.
That has nothing to do with our maintenance for a Version branch.
Please also see
[Libreoffice-qa] Removing LibO 3.3 from Versions dropdown in Bugzilla, 
where I demonstrated some criteria for versions removal.


I think End of 2013 we can think about something similar for 3.4.

Best regards


Rainer
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Lifecycle of builds?

2013-04-10 Thread Pedro
Hi Rainer


Rainer Bielefeld-2 wrote
 Version info in BZ should show where the bug appeared (or 
 at least has been observed the first time)

The point here is that if a version is past the EOL and nobody will fix bugs
in that branch, there is no point in reporting bugs first observed in 3.4 or
3.5 (otherwise you should NOT remove 3.3 from the list either)


Rainer Bielefeld-2 wrote
 I think End of 2013 we can think about something similar for 3.4.

Isn't that up to the BOD to decide? If the EOL was after 6 months why End of
2013?

Cheers,
Pedro



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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Lifecycle of builds?

2013-04-10 Thread Rainer Bielefeld

Pedro schrieb:


The point here is that if a version is past the EOL and nobody will fix bugs
in that branch, there is no point in reporting bugs first observed in 3.4 or
3.5 (otherwise you should NOT remove 3.3 from the list either)


Hi Pedro,

you are completely wrong, I doubt that you read the linked texts.


Isn't that up to the BOD to decide? If the EOL was after 6 months why End of
2013?


I do not see to what you refer, my comment was concerning removal of 3.4 
versions from BZ Version picker (the same way I will do for 3.3 this 
week), what is completely out of BODs interest.


CU


Rainer
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] [ANN] LibreOffice 3.6.6 RC2 available

2013-04-10 Thread Dan Lewis

On 04/10/2013 07:55 AM, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote:

On Tue, Apr 09, 2013 at 09:36:20PM -0400, Dan Lewis wrote:

   Next question. Has there been a change in where LibreOffice is
located? I installed LibreOffice 3.6.6.2 using the commands you gave
me above. This installed it in /usr/lib/libreoffice rather than
/opt/libreoffice3.6.  As a result I have 3.5.6.2 installed as well
as 3.6.6.2.

/usr/lib/libreoffice is the properly packaged build from Ubuntu/Debian
packaging. /opt/libreoffice is the TDF builds which are backwards compatible
with ancient distros. Dont use them, if you can get properly packaged builds
IMHO.

Best,

Bjoern

  Sorry, I meant 3.6.5.2 *not* 3.5.6.2.
  But I am still a bit confused about what is available at the PPA. 
I thought I was getting the build from TDF rather than from 
Ubuntu/Debian. Yet, when I opened Synaptic and looked at what I had 
installed, it indicated that I had gotten the  build from Ubuntu/Debian, 
namely 1:3.6.6~RC2-0ubuntu~precise~ppa2. That download was approximately 
97 MB. The TDF built download (3.6.6.2) is 179 MB.
So, what are the difference between these two builds? Since I am 
involved in TDF documentation, I probably need to continue to download 
the builds from the TDF website.
 Thanks for sending me a copy of what you posted to QA. It was very 
thoughtful of you. I am subscribed to the QA mailing list so this will 
not be necessary. (I also am subscribed to the DEV, documentation, and 
user mailing lists (I'm not sure how important this is to others.


--Dan
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Lifecycle of builds?

2013-04-10 Thread Robinson Tryon
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 8:02 AM, Rainer Bielefeld
libreoff...@bielefeldundbuss.de wrote:
 Pedro wrote:

 Does this also mean that 3.4 versions can already be removed from the
 bugzilla Version picker? And 3.5 versions after the 18th of this month?

 Hi Pedro,

 no, we can't. Version info in BZ should show where the bug appeared (or at
 least has been observed the first time)

It sounds like we're got a balancing act: Provide enough versions in
the picker that one has some granularity, but not clog-up the picker
with tons of old version numbers, including beta builds, etc..

 https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugReport_Details#Version.
 That has nothing to do with our maintenance for a Version branch.

Not sure what's relevant on that page...

 Please also see
 [Libreoffice-qa] Removing LibO 3.3 from Versions dropdown in Bugzilla,
 where I demonstrated some criteria for versions removal.

Link for easy reading :-)
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.qa/3962

Rainer wrote:
So I believe we should mark the not-release-3.3 as inactive, what means
they will stay for the bugs where they are used, but can not be used for
new bug reports (except by the LibO Bugzilla Administrators) because
they will no longer be shown in the Versions selector.

To riff off of your suggestion, perhaps we can do our cleanup in stages:

1) When we EOL a stable release such as 3.5.5, we remove (i.e. mark
as inactive) all of the not-release-3.5.5.x versions from the
bugtracker.

This will still allow us to report bugs against the stable release,
and if someone wants to test against a beta build and insert that
information into the bug report (or even into the Summary), then that
possibility remains.

2) When we EOL a release series such as 3.5, we *could* do more
cleanup, but there still may be end users running those stable builds.

As Michael pointed out, we still have companies interested in
maintenance on those older versions. Ubuntu 12.04 still has a 3.5
build, and I'm not sure if/when that will be upgraded. Realistically,
I think we can punt on this piece of the puzzle until another day.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
--R
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Lifecycle of builds?

2013-04-10 Thread Pedro
Hi Rainer


Rainer Bielefeld-2 wrote
 you are completely wrong, I doubt that you read the linked texts.

I did read the texts. Have you considered the hypothesis that YOU might be
wrong?

You are confusing QA work with a reporter's work. Someone who submits a bug
is going to report the version where he found the bug. He is not going to
install previous versions to check back. That is QA work.

So maybe there should be two separate fields: one for the reporter to
indicate in which version he observed the bug and another field for the QA
(or the reporter if he is willing to do that) to report in which version it
was first observed (if it is a new bug, i.e. not a regression then both
fields match)

In the QA field ALL versions including the 3.3 branch should show up. Maybe
in the user field only actively developed versions should show up? If bugs
are not going to be fixed in EOL branches it makes more sense to advise the
user to update to a live branch and then to report the bug if it still
exists...

Regards,
Pedro



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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Lifecycle of builds?

2013-04-10 Thread Petr Mladek
Michael Meeks píše v St 10. 04. 2013 v 10:25 +0100:
 Hi Robinson,
 
 On Tue, 2013-04-09 at 19:52 -0400, Robinson Tryon wrote:
  As Pedro mentioned, and as far as I understand it, our next step is to
  pick an EOL date for each of our builds and then go update the wiki
  pages. I'd be happy to help update the ReleaseNotes wiki pages, or to
  ping pmladek and hand that task over to him.
 
   Well - I guess Petr is the best guy to hack that page :-)
 
  Mmeeks suggested in this thread that 3.5.x should be considered EOL at
  this point. As the last release (3.5.7) shipped about 6 months ago, I
  suggest 6 months as the standard lifetime for our stable, shipped
  builds.

   Seems reasonable - 3.6.x will last a bit longer because of the jump to
 4.0 I think; currently planned at 9 months.

I see that you both use a bit different logic, so we need to decide how
we count the 6 and 9 months. I understand it the following way:

+ the release is defined by the minor version release, e.g. 3.6
  or 4.0
+ regular and extra bugfix releases are provided during the 
  life time
+ the life starts with the .0 release
+ the life ends when we are not willing to provide any new
  bugfix release
 
I think that it would be fair to make it live at least 4 weeks after the
last scheduled bugfix release. By other words, we should provide extra
bugfix release if we add serious regression into the last bugfix
release.

If we do it this way, the numbers would look like:

version start   endlength

+ 3.6   Aug 8, 2012 Aug 14, 2013   12 months
+ 4.0   Feb 6, 2013 Nov 20, 2013   9 months
+ 4.1   Jul 24, 2013May 28, 2013   9 months

It is basically what Michael mentioned because the .0 release is for
early adopters. The release is stable around .3 bugfix relase which is 3
months after the .0 release.


   Would changing 'Old Releases' to End of Life Releases in:
 
   https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan

Done, including the marketing hint, see
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan#End_of_Life_Releases

I wonder if there is a list of certified developers somewhere. I have
found only the description at
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDFCertification




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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Lifecycle of builds?

2013-04-10 Thread Pedro
Robinson Tryon wrote
 Oh, certainly. Perhaps Pedro meant that we shouldn't remove *all* of
 the 3.3 builds from the picker, for this very reason. Rainer described
 this as not-release-3.3 [builds]. I think we're mostly in agreement
 here :-)

Yes, exactly. I just read the title of Rainer other thread. I wrongly
assumed he meant removing ALL 3.3 versions except for version LibO 3.3.0
Beta2. Apologies on the confusion.

See my previous mail with suggestion on having two separate fields: one for
the version reported (where the user observed it) and one for the first
occurrence (determined by QA)

Regards,
Pedro



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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Lifecycle of builds?

2013-04-10 Thread Petr Mladek
Robinson Tryon píše v St 10. 04. 2013 v 10:12 -0400:
 On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 8:02 AM, Rainer Bielefeld
 Rainer wrote:
 So I believe we should mark the not-release-3.3 as inactive, what means
 they will stay for the bugs where they are used, but can not be used for
 new bug reports (except by the LibO Bugzilla Administrators) because
 they will no longer be shown in the Versions selector.

Nice feature

 To riff off of your suggestion, perhaps we can do our cleanup in stages:

Makes sense.

 1) When we EOL a stable release such as 3.5.5, we remove (i.e. mark
 as inactive) all of the not-release-3.5.5.x versions from the
 bugtracker.

I think that it is hard to define life time for a bugfix release. It is
basically obsoleted by the next bugfix release for the given minor
version.

If we accept this, it would mean to remove betas and rcs for X.Y.Z
when X.Y.Z+1 bugfix release is released. For example, remove 4.0.2 RCs
when 4.0.3 is released.

It could work. The logic here is that people, who install RCs from
prerelease, usually install newer RCs when they are available. The RCs
granularity gets outdated with next release because most people do not
have them installed. If anyone wants to find when it exactly got broken,
they  probably use bibisect which uses another identification.

Maybe we could wait one more bugfix release, just for sure. See below.


 2) When we EOL a release series such as 3.5, we *could* do more
 cleanup, but there still may be end users running those stable builds.

 As Michael pointed out, we still have companies interested in
 maintenance on those older versions. Ubuntu 12.04 still has a 3.5
 build, and I'm not sure if/when that will be upgraded. Realistically,
 I think we can punt on this piece of the puzzle until another day.

I would probably leave it a bit longer. It seems that people still use
different 3.4.x bugfix releases. I did a query for bugs reported this
year:

  + 64 bugs are marked against the version 3.4.*
  + 1 is against 3.4.*RC.*  (fdo#53725)
  + 2 are against 3.4.6 release (last one)
  + 61 are against other 3.4.x releases

Best Regards,
Petr

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Lifecycle of builds?

2013-04-10 Thread Robinson Tryon
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Petr Mladek pmla...@suse.cz wrote:
 I see that you both use a bit different logic, so we need to decide how
 we count the 6 and 9 months. I understand it the following way:

 + the release is defined by the minor version release, e.g. 3.6
   or 4.0
 + regular and extra bugfix releases are provided during the
   life time
 + the life starts with the .0 release
 + the life ends when we are not willing to provide any new
   bugfix release

So would we provide an EOL date for each point release in a series, or
just a single EOL date for all of our 3.6.x released builds?

Granularity is nice, but one EOL for the entire release series might
be easier to manage. I'd often thought of each 3.5.x build as a
separate release, but as you describe it, it's mostly just a
maintenance schedule.

 I think that it would be fair to make it live at least 4 weeks after the
 last scheduled bugfix release. By other words, we should provide extra
 bugfix release if we add serious regression into the last bugfix
 release.

4 weeks of support for a regular build seems pretty short, but when
you describe it as a bugfix release, it makes a lot more sense in my
mind. Perhaps we could add some language on the ReleasePlan page to
help telegraph the impending end of the series?

Maybe in the tables of releases:

3.6.0
...
3.6.6 bugfix
3.6.7 bugfix

Is there a better/shorter label we could apply there?

 If we do it this way, the numbers would look like:

 version start   endlength

 + 3.6   Aug 8, 2012 Aug 14, 2013   12 months
 + 4.0   Feb 6, 2013 Nov 20, 2013   9 months
 + 4.1   Jul 24, 2013May 28, 2013   9 months

 It is basically what Michael mentioned because the .0 release is for
 early adopters. The release is stable around .3 bugfix relase which is 3
 months after the .0 release.

Ah, okay, so perhaps a new column in the table:

3.6.0 - early adopters
3.6.1 - (or maybe 'unstable'? marketing would hate that..)
3.6.2 - (Better: leave it empty until we can mark it 'stable' :-)
3.6.3 - stable
...
3.6.6 - bugfix
3.6.7 - bugfix

Then if we had to add an extra bugfix, we could do something like
3.6.8 - special bugfix

Unlike the rest of the information in the table, the labels in this
column could be added at each new release, especially as we don't know
at the outset which point release we'll feel confident to mark as
'stable'.


 I wonder if there is a list of certified developers somewhere. I have
 found only the description at
 https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDFCertification

https://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/developers/

I would suggest that you link to some internal page on the wiki (say
TDF/certification), as it's likely that other pages will want to
mention the certification program or the currently-certified
developers.

--R
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[Libreoffice-qa] Bug 63388: Mail Merge Email

2013-04-10 Thread Dan Lewis
  I have filed this bug because I can not get LibreOffice to test 
the settings I enter into
Tools  Options  LibreOffice Writer  Main Merge. It freezes everytime. 
All the information I enter is copied from the Account Settings in 
Thunderbird. I have verified that the password I entered will open Gmail 
on the Google website. I use IMAP rather than POP3.
  Do others have this problem? Is there something special that I am 
not doing to cause LO to freeze when running this test?


--Dan
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Bug 63388: Mail Merge Email

2013-04-10 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 10/04/13 17:50, Dan Lewis a écrit :

Hi Dan,

   I have filed this bug because I can not get LibreOffice to test
 the settings I enter into
 Tools  Options  LibreOffice Writer  Main Merge. It freezes everytime.
 All the information I enter is copied from the Account Settings in
 Thunderbird. I have verified that the password I entered will open Gmail
 on the Google website. I use IMAP rather than POP3.
   Do others have this problem? Is there something special that I am
 not doing to cause LO to freeze when running this test?


I have this problem too, but I thought that it had already been entered
as a bug. I've not found a way for the test to complete without freezing
LO (and requiring force kill) thus far.


Alex


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Master daily builds for Windows are broken

2013-04-10 Thread Pedro
Actually, what I mentioned in the previous email refers to Tinderbox #6

Oddly enough, Tinderbox #16 (still named W2008R2...) hasn't failed since
April 1st because it is not compiling since then :)



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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] moztrap documentation feedback

2013-04-10 Thread Thomas Hackert
Hello Yifan, *,
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 02:03:33PM +0800, Yifan Jiang wrote:
 On Tue, Apr 09, 2013 at 01:17:37PM +0200, Petr Mladek wrote:
[import of old test cases]
  AFAIK, Yi Fan already ported all useful test cases. I think that he
  ignored some trivial tests that did not make much sense. But I might be
  wrong.
 
 Yes, the status is done :) We have migrated old cases from Litmus and
 got them updated to Moztrap with merging duplicated steps or cases as
 well as wording revising.

O.K. Thanks for the info :)

   2. How do I get my translated test cases in a test run? A short test
   during my translation shows me, that they were not in there ... :( Or
   does someone have to prove them first and then they get active?
  
  I am afraid that this is related to the branches. If you modify the text
  in the branch 0 it is not automatically updated in other branches. I
  am not sure if there is a way to synchronize this. Yi Fan?
 
 Usually when we have a newly added test case translation in version 0,
 it will take effect as a new version is created, which is copied from
 test case version 0.

O.K.

 By the fact a test cases in a test run is bound to a specific version,
 to make the translation taking effect for an existed test run, we need
 to update the test case content for a speific version more than for
 version 0 only. That is to say, switch to the right test case version
 then paste the newly added translation from version 0 :)

Sigh ... Is there no easier way? That would be nice ... ;)
Have a nice evening
Thomas.

-- 
...when fits of creativity run strong, more than one programmer or writer has
been known to abandon the desktop for the more spacious floor.
-- Fred Brooks, Jr.
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[Libreoffice-qa] Consistent Time for Meetings

2013-04-10 Thread Joel Madero

Hi All,

So we need to set an official, every two week (or maybe 3?) time for our 
meetings. Mostly this has been at 1300 GMT/UTC (before 1400 GMT/UTC) on 
every other Friday. This time is *slightly* inconvenient for me (quite 
early) but if it's the easiest on everyone else I say we set it in 
stone, we either meet that day or we cancel the meeting (no more moving 
it around, I think it gives a bad message, leads to discouragement for 
members that were planning on joining but then time is moved, plus just 
is unprofessional in general). Robinson made a great point that this 
*does not* exclude special meetings, it just means we'll have regular 
scheduled meetings which can be canceled if needed. The main agenda 
should be taken care of on regularly scheduled meetings, special 
meetings should be for an individual item that needs additional discussion.


So again, I'm happy to stick with 1300 UTC/GMT if it's best for 
everyone, if others are open to alternative times here is what I prefer.


M/T/W/F - 1400 UTC/GMT (one hour later than currently set)
M-F - 1900 - 2000 (start time between this period)


Remember on the half hour is fine also in that range.


I really am hoping to get a time that we can all usually make. If this 
means Friday at 1300, so be it, we'll set the time and be done with it. 
Please respond in the next day or two so that we can get this officially 
announced, and set the next agenda time.




Thanks all, sorry again that I missed todays meeting.



Best,
Joel
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