Frescobaldi (Re: LilyPond editing environments)

[Wilbert Berendsen]

Op Sun, 10 May 2015 10:07:59 +0200
Urs Liska  schreef:

> I know I could collect this information myself, but I prefer having
> it 1st-hand and current this way.
> 
> I will be presenting LilyPond to the MEI community at the Music
> Encoding Conference in Florence in a week. As one (small) part of the 
> presentation I want to present a list of interesting editing 
> environments that are available for LilyPond, to show a little bit of 
> the versatility, but also the direction things have been taking in 
> recent years (my assumption is that basically everyone involved in
> music encoding/MEI knows about LilyPond but that only a very small
> share is actually following what happens around it).
> 
> So I'd be happy if anyone who is involved in the development of a 
> LilyPond editing environment could send me (privately or on this
> list) a very short report about it, with
> - name
> - tooltip-like short description about the fundamental character
> - comment on the development state (and activity)
> - link to homepage or other source of reference
> 
> Probably I won't have the time in the presentation to read out all
> this for all projects, but I intend to have at least a page in the
> handout with such a list.


Frescobaldi

A text editor for LilyPond source with integrated music view and midi
player. The music view has a two-way connection with the notes in the
source text, even when the document is modified, notes still remain
connected. Included are powerful tools such as a score wizard, a
snippet manager, and functions to alter music, such as transpose,
change the rhythm, hyphenate lyrics, add articulations etc. Frescobaldi
runs on OS X, Linux and MS Windows.

Development is very active, with 5 releases in the past year. There is a
small development team.

http://www.frescobaldi.org/



-- 
Wilbert Berendsen
(http://www.wilbertberendsen.nl)


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Re: LilyPond editing environments

[Steven Arntson]

I'm not involved in the development end of this, but I know there's an
Emacs major mode, lilypond-mode, for entering Lilypond files. I've used
it only a little bit. I don't believe it is very actively developed, but
I could be wrong.

http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/usage/text-editor-support#emacs-mode

-steven arntson

Urs Liska  writes:

> I know I could collect this information myself, but I prefer having it
> 1st-hand and current this way.
>
> I will be presenting LilyPond to the MEI community at the Music
> Encoding Conference in Florence in a week. As one (small) part of the
> presentation I want to present a list of interesting editing
> environments that are available for LilyPond, to show a little bit of
> the versatility, but also the direction things have been taking in
> recent years (my assumption is that basically everyone involved in
> music encoding/MEI knows about LilyPond but that only a very small
> share is actually following what happens around it).
>
> So I'd be happy if anyone who is involved in the development of a
> LilyPond editing environment could send me (privately or on this list)
> a very short report about it, with
> - name
> - tooltip-like short description about the fundamental character
> - comment on the development state (and activity)
> - link to homepage or other source of reference
>
> Probably I won't have the time in the presentation to read out all
> this for all projects, but I intend to have at least a page in the
> handout with such a list.
>
> Thanks
> Urs


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Re: LilyPond editing environments

[Richard Shann]

On Sun, 2015-05-10 at 07:42 -0700, Paul Scott wrote:
> On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 11:02:12AM +0100, Richard Shann wrote:
> > On Sun, 2015-05-10 at 10:07 +0200, Urs Liska wrote:
> > [...]
> > > 
> > > So I'd be happy if anyone who is involved in the development of a 
> > > LilyPond editing environment could send me (privately or on this list) a 
> > > very short report about it, with
> > > - name
> > > - tooltip-like short description about the fundamental character
> > > - comment on the development state (and activity)
> > > - link to homepage or other source of reference
> > 
> > Denemo
> > 
> > WYSIWYM editor for LilyPond, displays the LilyPond music as simple
> > typeset notation as the music is entered into the score. Outputs the
> > LilyPond music text either with a selection of default layouts
> > (full-score, parts, etc) or hand-written LilyPond to describe the
> > layout. WYSIWYG editing on the LilyPond PDF of slurs and positioning
> > marks.
> > 
> > Very active: 33 releases is six years, five in the past year, very small
> > team of developers.
> > 
> > http://www.denemo.org
> 
> I'm installing it on my Debian system to check it out.
If you install the package from Debian it will be several years out of
date.
>   Can I use it with
> the development versions?  (2.19.19)

Yes, Edit->Change Preferences->Externals->Path to LilyPond 

Richard



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Re: LilyPond editing environments

[Paul Scott]

On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 11:02:12AM +0100, Richard Shann wrote:
> On Sun, 2015-05-10 at 10:07 +0200, Urs Liska wrote:
> [...]
> > 
> > So I'd be happy if anyone who is involved in the development of a 
> > LilyPond editing environment could send me (privately or on this list) a 
> > very short report about it, with
> > - name
> > - tooltip-like short description about the fundamental character
> > - comment on the development state (and activity)
> > - link to homepage or other source of reference
> 
> Denemo
> 
> WYSIWYM editor for LilyPond, displays the LilyPond music as simple
> typeset notation as the music is entered into the score. Outputs the
> LilyPond music text either with a selection of default layouts
> (full-score, parts, etc) or hand-written LilyPond to describe the
> layout. WYSIWYG editing on the LilyPond PDF of slurs and positioning
> marks.
> 
> Very active: 33 releases is six years, five in the past year, very small
> team of developers.
> 
> http://www.denemo.org

I'm installing it on my Debian system to check it out.  Can I use it with
the development versions?  (2.19.19)

Paul Scott


> 
> 
> HTH
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: LilyPond editing environments

[Urs Liska]

Am 10.05.2015 um 12:02 schrieb Richard Shann:

On Sun, 2015-05-10 at 10:07 +0200, Urs Liska wrote:
[...]


So I'd be happy if anyone who is involved in the development of a
LilyPond editing environment could send me (privately or on this list) a
very short report about it, with
- name
- tooltip-like short description about the fundamental character
- comment on the development state (and activity)
- link to homepage or other source of reference


Denemo

WYSIWYM editor for LilyPond, displays the LilyPond music as simple
typeset notation as the music is entered into the score. Outputs the
LilyPond music text either with a selection of default layouts
(full-score, parts, etc) or hand-written LilyPond to describe the
layout. WYSIWYG editing on the LilyPond PDF of slurs and positioning
marks.

Very active: 33 releases is six years, five in the past year, very small
team of developers.

http://www.denemo.org


HTH


It does. This is what I was asking for. Of course I know about Denemo 
but this is the kind of information you can provide better than I could 
retrieve it on my own.


Urs



Richard







--
Urs Liska
www.openlilylib.org

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Re: LilyPond editing environments

[Richard Shann]

On Sun, 2015-05-10 at 10:07 +0200, Urs Liska wrote:
[...]
> 
> So I'd be happy if anyone who is involved in the development of a 
> LilyPond editing environment could send me (privately or on this list) a 
> very short report about it, with
> - name
> - tooltip-like short description about the fundamental character
> - comment on the development state (and activity)
> - link to homepage or other source of reference

Denemo

WYSIWYM editor for LilyPond, displays the LilyPond music as simple
typeset notation as the music is entered into the score. Outputs the
LilyPond music text either with a selection of default layouts
(full-score, parts, etc) or hand-written LilyPond to describe the
layout. WYSIWYG editing on the LilyPond PDF of slurs and positioning
marks.

Very active: 33 releases is six years, five in the past year, very small
team of developers.

http://www.denemo.org


HTH

Richard





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LilyPond editing environments

[Urs Liska]

I know I could collect this information myself, but I prefer having it 
1st-hand and current this way.


I will be presenting LilyPond to the MEI community at the Music Encoding 
Conference in Florence in a week. As one (small) part of the 
presentation I want to present a list of interesting editing 
environments that are available for LilyPond, to show a little bit of 
the versatility, but also the direction things have been taking in 
recent years (my assumption is that basically everyone involved in music 
encoding/MEI knows about LilyPond but that only a very small share is 
actually following what happens around it).


So I'd be happy if anyone who is involved in the development of a 
LilyPond editing environment could send me (privately or on this list) a 
very short report about it, with

- name
- tooltip-like short description about the fundamental character
- comment on the development state (and activity)
- link to homepage or other source of reference

Probably I won't have the time in the presentation to read out all this 
for all projects, but I intend to have at least a page in the handout 
with such a list.


Thanks
Urs

--
Urs Liska
www.openlilylib.org

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Re: LilyPond editing environments

[Urs Liska]

Am 09.12.2013 18:19, schrieb Carl Peterson:

On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Carl Peterson wrote:


On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Urs Liska  wrote:


Would a section "Online Tools" better be placed between the
"full-fledged" editors (Frescobaldi/Denemo) and "Text editors" or after the
"Text editors".

I think we could consider not only score editors but also tools like
- http://scalematcher.adamspiers.org/
or
- a tool for harmonic analysis someone announced just recently and which
I unfortunately don't find right now.

Urs


I think here you're starting to cross the line from editors/tools (things
that help you use and work with LilyPond) into more of a "Gallery" (things
that people have done with LilyPond). Scale Matcher is an interesting,
"This is what someone has done with LilyPond" (similar to "Pondings"). The
difference between it and Lilybin is that Lilybin is an online editing
environment that compiles whatever the user wants. Scale Matcher only does
one thing through a user interface.


To clarify on this point, I would separate "Gallery" items into a separate
page from anything related to installing/using LilyPond. This is fairly
normal and I would want to maintain a clear distinction between things that
let you work with LilyPond to do what *you* want, and things that either
(a) have no functional use (e.g., postings of LilyPond-engraved works), or
(b) are limited-scope utilities (such as Scale Matcher), particularly in
the latter case so that someone doesn't go to the site mistakenly thinking
they can use it to do x (in spite of clear disclaimers to the contrary).

Carl



Actually this is what I thought immediately after sending my message ;-)

I think the "Gallery" of
- concerts
- published scores
- things that have been done with LilyPond

also deserves a few thoughts ...

Urs

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Re: LilyPond editing environments

[Carl Peterson]

On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Carl Peterson wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Urs Liska  wrote:
>
>>
>> Would a section "Online Tools" better be placed between the
>> "full-fledged" editors (Frescobaldi/Denemo) and "Text editors" or after the
>> "Text editors".
>>
>> I think we could consider not only score editors but also tools like
>> - http://scalematcher.adamspiers.org/
>> or
>> - a tool for harmonic analysis someone announced just recently and which
>> I unfortunately don't find right now.
>>
>> Urs
>>
>
> I think here you're starting to cross the line from editors/tools (things
> that help you use and work with LilyPond) into more of a "Gallery" (things
> that people have done with LilyPond). Scale Matcher is an interesting,
> "This is what someone has done with LilyPond" (similar to "Pondings"). The
> difference between it and Lilybin is that Lilybin is an online editing
> environment that compiles whatever the user wants. Scale Matcher only does
> one thing through a user interface.
>

To clarify on this point, I would separate "Gallery" items into a separate
page from anything related to installing/using LilyPond. This is fairly
normal and I would want to maintain a clear distinction between things that
let you work with LilyPond to do what *you* want, and things that either
(a) have no functional use (e.g., postings of LilyPond-engraved works), or
(b) are limited-scope utilities (such as Scale Matcher), particularly in
the latter case so that someone doesn't go to the site mistakenly thinking
they can use it to do x (in spite of clear disclaimers to the contrary).

Carl
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Re: LilyPond editing environments

[Janek Warchoł]

2013/12/9 Urs Liska :
> Would a section "Online Tools" better be placed between the "full-fledged"
> editors (Frescobaldi/Denemo) and "Text editors" or after the "Text editors".

before "text editors" imo

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Re: LilyPond editing environments

[Carl Peterson]

On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Urs Liska  wrote:

>
> Would a section "Online Tools" better be placed between the "full-fledged"
> editors (Frescobaldi/Denemo) and "Text editors" or after the "Text editors".
>
> I think we could consider not only score editors but also tools like
> - http://scalematcher.adamspiers.org/
> or
> - a tool for harmonic analysis someone announced just recently and which I
> unfortunately don't find right now.
>
> Urs
>

I think here you're starting to cross the line from editors/tools (things
that help you use and work with LilyPond) into more of a "Gallery" (things
that people have done with LilyPond). Scale Matcher is an interesting,
"This is what someone has done with LilyPond" (similar to "Pondings"). The
difference between it and Lilybin is that Lilybin is an online editing
environment that compiles whatever the user wants. Scale Matcher only does
one thing through a user interface.
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Re: LilyPond editing environments

[Urs Liska]

Am 09.12.2013 17:34, schrieb Janek Warchoł:

2013/12/9 Federico Bruni :

2013/12/9 Janek Warchoł 

Hard to say.  And I think there was some licensing problem with
Lilybin (it may not be fully free, and as GNU we cannot recommend
non-free programs).


I see MIT license here:
https://github.com/trevordixon/LilyBin/blob/master/LICENSE

Indeed, i couldn't find any information about problems in the mail
archives.  So i think it should be added - i think it's very nice, and
a terrific introduction to Lilypond!

J




Would a section "Online Tools" better be placed between the 
"full-fledged" editors (Frescobaldi/Denemo) and "Text editors" or after 
the "Text editors".


I think we could consider not only score editors but also tools like
- http://scalematcher.adamspiers.org/
or
- a tool for harmonic analysis someone announced just recently and which 
I unfortunately don't find right now.


Urs
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Re: LilyPond editing environments

[Janek Warchoł]

2013/12/9 Federico Bruni :
> 2013/12/9 Janek Warchoł 
>>
>> Hard to say.  And I think there was some licensing problem with
>> Lilybin (it may not be fully free, and as GNU we cannot recommend
>> non-free programs).
>
>
> I see MIT license here:
> https://github.com/trevordixon/LilyBin/blob/master/LICENSE

Indeed, i couldn't find any information about problems in the mail
archives.  So i think it should be added - i think it's very nice, and
a terrific introduction to Lilypond!

J

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Re: LilyPond editing environments

[Federico Bruni]

2013/12/9 Janek Warchoł 

> Hard to say.  And I think there was some licensing problem with
> Lilybin (it may not be fully free, and as GNU we cannot recommend
> non-free programs).
>

I see MIT license here:
https://github.com/trevordixon/LilyBin/blob/master/LICENSE
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Re: LilyPond editing environments

[Janek Warchoł]

2013/12/9 Urs Liska :
> Hi,
>
> I have a few questions about the contents of the "Easier editing" page on
> lilypond.org.
>
> a)
> LilyPondTool.
> The link is broken, and http://lilypondtool.blogspot.de/ states (as of
> 2012-09-14) that development of LilyPondTool is stopped.
> Should I move it to the " Other programs not being actively developed"
> section?

absolutely!

> b)
> What is the reason that Tunefl is the topmost item in this list
> Shouldn't we instead add a new subsection for Online tools?
> - Tunefl
> - Schikker's list
> - lilybin
> - more?
> I would even add the MediaWiki extension to Wikipedia there.

Hard to say.  And I think there was some licensing problem with
Lilybin (it may not be fully free, and as GNU we cannot recommend
non-free programs).

But i agree that Frescobaldi should be on top, then Denemo, and then
Tunefl (as it does allow only to create small scores).
Janek

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LilyPond editing environments

[Urs Liska]

Hi,

I have a few questions about the contents of the "Easier editing" page 
on lilypond.org.


a)
LilyPondTool.
The link is broken, and http://lilypondtool.blogspot.de/ states (as of 
2012-09-14) that development of LilyPondTool is stopped.
Should I move it to the " Other programs not being actively developed" 
section?


b)
What is the reason that Tunefl is the topmost item in this list
Shouldn't we instead add a new subsection for Online tools?
- Tunefl
- Schikker's list
- lilybin
- more?
I would even add the MediaWiki extension to Wikipedia there.

Urs
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Re: Lilypond editing environments

[Nick Payne]

On 06/09/12 16:27, Janek Warchoł wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 1:21 AM, Nick Payne  
> wrote:
>> Elysium (the Eclipse plugin for Lilypond editing) is not listed in the
>> documentation as one of the editing environments for Lilypond. It should
>> probably be there
>> http://elysium.thsoft.hu/
> I didn't found licensing information on their website; since Lily is a
> GNU project we can recommend only Free Software.  If Elysium is Free
> Software, please send an information about it to bug-lilyp...@gnu.org

The licensing is EPL: https://code.google.com/a/eclipselabs.org/p/elysium/.

EPL is listed as an open source license at
http://opensource.org/licenses/alphabetical.

Nick

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Re: Lilypond editing environments

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

012/9/6 Janek Warchoł :
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 1:21 AM, Nick Payne  
> wrote:
>> Elysium (the Eclipse plugin for Lilypond editing) is not listed in the
>> documentation as one of the editing environments for Lilypond. It should
>> probably be there
>> http://elysium.thsoft.hu/
>
> I didn't found licensing information on their website; since Lily is a
> GNU project we can recommend only Free Software.  If Elysium is Free
> Software, please send an information about it to bug-lilyp...@gnu.org

Their license is EPL, as indicated here:
http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/elysium#.UEhONkK4qlo
and here:
http://code.google.com/a/eclipselabs.org/p/elysium/

EPL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse_Public_License
(OSI approved, but not GPL compatible)

Best regards,
Hraban

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Re: Lilypond editing environments

[Janek Warchoł]

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 1:21 AM, Nick Payne  wrote:
> Elysium (the Eclipse plugin for Lilypond editing) is not listed in the
> documentation as one of the editing environments for Lilypond. It should
> probably be there
> http://elysium.thsoft.hu/

I didn't found licensing information on their website; since Lily is a
GNU project we can recommend only Free Software.  If Elysium is Free
Software, please send an information about it to bug-lilyp...@gnu.org

thanks,
Janek

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Lilypond editing environments

[Nick Payne]

Elysium (the Eclipse plugin for Lilypond editing) is not listed in the 
documentation as one of the editing environments for Lilypond. It should 
probably be there ( 
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/web-big-page#easier-editing).


http://elysium.thsoft.hu/

Nick
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Re: Lilypond Editing Environments and output file names

[Wilbert Berendsen]

Op vrijdag 30 oktober 2009 schreef Ian:

> I've noticed that LilypondTool and Frescobaldi can get fooled using 
> their internal pdf viewers about where the successfully compiled output is.
> 
> I wonder if you editor guys can take an enhancement to make your PDF 
> viewers sensitive to the code writing the final format to a different 
> file name?

It is no problem to implement, Frescobaldi will probably implement support for 
this as soon as it reaches stable LilyPond and is documented.

Currently Frescobaldi looks for files with the same basename and "globs" for 
possible suffixes.

best regards,
Wilbert Berendsen

-- 
Frescobaldi, LilyPond editor for KDE: http://www.frescobaldi.org/
Nederlands LilyPond forum: http://www.lilypondforum.nl/


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Lilypond Editing Environments and output file names

[Ian Hulin]

This is a heads up for those like Bert and Wilbert who write editing 
support environments for Lilypond.


I currently have a patch in for review which will allow Lily to redirect 
the backend output to another file for particular \book blocks. 
Currently you do this by setting environment variables like output-suffix.


I've noticed that LilypondTool and Frescobaldi can get fooled using 
their internal pdf viewers about where the successfully compiled output is.


I wonder if you editor guys can take an enhancement to make your PDF 
viewers sensitive to the code writing the final format to a different 
file name?


Tracker no is 836, Patch code is at 
http://codereview.appspot.com/143055/show if you want to see what's there.


Hope this helps you to keep your Lilypond layered projects ready for 
2.14.  (If my patch gets through, that is).


Cheers,
Ian


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