Re: [Linuxwacom-devel] Tilt value meaning
On 03/09/2012 11:12 AM, Alexia Death wrote: With the ink pen the effect isnt directly obvious. its a continuos and tricky tool and rather lousy for tesing. For your purposes, even the dev relase before last is fine. Last dev release had a huge dependency bump and is pain to install on most current distros. In 2.7 series you have the new dynamics system available for all paint tools. That lets you do some fun things with tilt on all paint tools, including clearly seenig the fect on a stamp. Thanks Alexia, I was able to get some effect from the ink pen on Gimp 2.6! Although I still don't know what it should be, I can see that at least something is there. I will probably need to get a Wacom tablet to be able to compare, but for now I'll just try to make sure the values resemble what was described by Jason Gerecke. Thanks everyone! Sincerely, Nick -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel
Re: [Linuxwacom-devel] Tilt value meaning
On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 11:03 PM, Nikolai Kondrashov spbn...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/08/2012 08:42 PM, Chris Bagwell wrote: I believe tilt support is also in 2.6 but does seem to only work with certain tools. The Ink Pen mentions setting tilt sensitivity. http://docs.gimp.org/en/gimp-tool-ink.html Thanks, Chris! I have gimp 2.6 and will try the ink pen. With the ink pen the effect isnt directly obvious. its a continuos and tricky tool and rather lousy for tesing. For your purposes, even the dev relase before last is fine. Last dev release had a huge dependency bump and is pain to install on most current distros. In 2.7 series you have the new dynamics system available for all paint tools. That lets you do some fun things with tilt on all paint tools, including clearly seenig the fect on a stamp. -- --Alexia -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel
Re: [Linuxwacom-devel] Tilt value meaning
On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 4:14 AM, Nikolai Kondrashov spbn...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/08/2012 02:18 AM, Jason Gerecke wrote: Our kernel driver reports values from [0, 127] with 0 corresponding to top/left and 127 to bottom/right. The midpoint is assumed to be vertical, with one unit of change corresponding roughly to one degree of change. Thanks. This appears to me as not the most straight-forward range. I would expect kernel to report 0-symmetric values. Maybe it's not late to change that to have better compatibility with generic HID devices? While I agree that [0, 127] isn't obvious, changing it to be 0-symmetric isn't going to happen any time soon. The X driver unfortunately expects that range -- it doesn't ask the kernel. Any kernel change would have to come quite a while after the X driver was modified to ask the kernel instead (otherwise we risk breaking tilt for anyone with an old Xorg driver) The Xorg driver centers the data from the kernel about zero (resulting in a range [-64, 63]) and reports them for applications in the 4th (X tilt) and 5th (Y tilt) valuators. So far I've got evdev to report ABS_TILT_X and ABS_TILT_Y as 4th and 5th valuators from the kernel as is. So I'll leave the kernel driver reporting 0-symmetric values for now. It seems the range is already clipped to [-64,64], although the original report descriptor states [-127,127]. Is the range of values you get out of the kernel clipped to [-64,64], or is evdev doing the clipping? If the hardware is only sending data in that range there isn't much you can do about it (aside from double-checking that you're reading the tilt packets correctly). Otherwise, I'd make sure the range you tell the kernel to expect is correct -- I hope evdev doesn't have [-64,64] hardcoded, but we do the same thing so Can you suggest a way to test the tilt with a real-world application, not just xinput test or xev? I usually use gimp for real-world testing, though I think you'll only get tilt-sensitivity in gimp-2.7 (which is an unstable release...) Thanks! Sincerely, Nick Jason --- Day xee-nee-svsh duu-'ushtlh-ts'it; nuu-wee-ya' duu-xan' 'vm-nvshtlh-ts'it. Huu-chan xuu naa~-gha. -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel
Re: [Linuxwacom-devel] Tilt value meaning
On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 12:06 PM, Jason Gerecke killert...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 4:14 AM, Nikolai Kondrashov spbn...@gmail.com wrote: Can you suggest a way to test the tilt with a real-world application, not just xinput test or xev? I usually use gimp for real-world testing, though I think you'll only get tilt-sensitivity in gimp-2.7 (which is an unstable release...) I believe tilt support is also in 2.6 but does seem to only work with certain tools. The Ink Pen mentions setting tilt sensitivity. http://docs.gimp.org/en/gimp-tool-ink.html Chris -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel
Re: [Linuxwacom-devel] Tilt value meaning
Hi Jason, On 03/08/2012 08:06 PM, Jason Gerecke wrote: While I agree that [0, 127] isn't obvious, changing it to be 0-symmetric isn't going to happen any time soon. The X driver unfortunately expects that range -- it doesn't ask the kernel. Any kernel change would have to come quite a while after the X driver was modified to ask the kernel instead (otherwise we risk breaking tilt for anyone with an old Xorg driver) Yes, I understand that. Can I suggest a plan? Have the X driver always center the range around zero. If axis resolution isn't specified, assume the range covers [-60,60] degrees. Otherwise, calculate the physical range from resolution (which is points/radian), clip it to values corresponding to [-60,60] physical degrees and report without scaling to the applications. This is, of course, assuming the Wacom driver would want to handle non-Wacom tablets. If not, then, for the sake of uniform evdev protocol, only centering needs to be added. After some time passes, say a year, update the kernel driver to center the range around zero, remove centering from the X driver and assume 0 is 0 degrees from normal. BTW, could it be that the driver does centering in a suitable way already? I'm not sure if anything should be done about the direction mismatch. Is the range of values you get out of the kernel clipped to [-64,64], or is evdev doing the clipping? I'm sorry, I didn't collect enough data. I've collected more input, which pushed the range to [-67,73]. If the hardware is only sending data in that range there isn't much you can do about it (aside from double-checking that you're reading the tilt packets correctly). Well, I could still scale it. Otherwise, I'd make sure the range you tell the kernel to expect is correct -- I hope evdev doesn't have [-64,64] hardcoded, but we do the same thing so It seems evdev doesn't do any special processing to the tilt axis, which I think is good. Now, aside from the strange range, the value change rate really looks more like the angle sine, than the angle itself. I.e. it seems the tablet reports fractions of the pen projection length. I did some measurements with a protractor and the values doesn't change at the same rate with angles. Even more, the negative values, seem to be offset somewhat and don't match the scale of the positive values closely, but they're still closer to a sine, than to an angle. This actually makes sense, since the tablet has no way to measure the angle directly and calculating it isn't a very suitable task for its CPU. I usually use gimp for real-world testing, though I think you'll only get tilt-sensitivity in gimp-2.7 (which is an unstable release...) I never used another tablet with tilt sensitivity with gimp. Could you suggest what output I should expect and with which tools? Thanks a lot for your comments and suggestions! Sincerely, Nick -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel
Re: [Linuxwacom-devel] Tilt value meaning
On 03/08/2012 08:42 PM, Chris Bagwell wrote: I believe tilt support is also in 2.6 but does seem to only work with certain tools. The Ink Pen mentions setting tilt sensitivity. http://docs.gimp.org/en/gimp-tool-ink.html Thanks, Chris! I have gimp 2.6 and will try the ink pen. Sincerely, Nick -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel
Re: [Linuxwacom-devel] Tilt value meaning
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Nikolai Kondrashov spbn...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, Today I've started implementing a driver for Waltop Sirius Battery Free tablet. As it turns out, it reports pen tilting, which is a rare thing for non-Wacom tablets! Could someone please explain what ABS_TILT_X and ABS_TILT_Y event values are supposed to mean? What are the units and ranges? Also, what the X applications are expecting as tilting valuator values? My expectation was that the values match the HID usage tables spec description of X Tilt and Y Tilt usages (see 16.3.2 Tilt Orientation). I.e. positive/negative fractions of the X/Y arcs, which probably cover 90 degrees both ways, since nobody is looking at the resolution. Interestingly enough, the spec says positive inclination is bottom right corner, but the tablet assumes top right. However, after reading xf86-input-wacom sources I got somewhat confused. Could someone clarify this? I do not have a tablet with tilt, nor experience on how userland uses it. And probably I should have read that HID section before replying but... I do see all Wacom tablets with Tilt support report tilt X/Y declaring a value between 0 and 127. I also see these tablets advertised on web with Tilt Range of +/- 60 degrees. So I'm going to take a wild guess since 60 + 60 ~= 127 the units are degrees. Hopefully, those missing degree's aren't hard coded in apps such as gimp! Chris -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel
