And more collectibles...
A banker’s box of kettle leads, USB cables of various terminations, video leads and writable DVD’s and CD’s. Anyone? Or they’re being recycled.
Re: Web scraping frameworks?
For what I'm thinking, a way of relating named divs (and lists of) on a page to the hash elements needed for poking into DBIx::Class. As for Web::Scraper, it's Miyagawa-ware, so definitely worth looking at. On 4 Mar 2014, at 21:50, ๏̯͡๏ Guido Barosio gbaro...@gmail.com wrote: Curious about this one. How far a scraping franework would be from lwp? On Tuesday, March 4, 2014, DAVID HODGKINSON daveh...@gmail.com wrote: Does something exist? If it doesn't does anyone want to help make it happen? I *really* don't want to have to write the code all over again ten times... -- Guido Barosio Pensando en los estudiantes de Venezuela, por un futuro mejor para todo ese pueblo. http://www.ted.com/profiles/1085580
Re: Web scraping frameworks?
On 4 Mar 2014, at 22:05, Sue Spence virtually...@gmail.com wrote: On 4 March 2014 21:33, DAVID HODGKINSON daveh...@gmail.com wrote: Does something exist? https://www.google.com/search?q=perl+web+scraping 3rd hit mentions the cpan module Dave Cross mentioned. If you were to describe what you want to accomplish that might be useful. 8th for me :) Miyagawa wins always. Unless Audrey is playing.
Re: Web scraping frameworks?
On 4 Mar 2014, at 22:09, Jesse Vincent je...@fsck.com wrote: Many years ago Audrey also put together Template::Extract, which is sort of a fascinating layer on top of this That's usually my first port of call, but recently I've been in a more structured world, for example HTML::Tree* modules, and I've felt the urge for something more formal and defined.
Re: Recommended IDE...?
I did some research on this for emacs a while back. http://www.davehodgkinson.com/blog/2012/01/using-emacs-as-an-ide/ Having Perl::Critic integrated is nice, and I've done this in some places that care. Perlysense got some votes. ctags/etags is good if you need to zap between files looking for symbols. I bind M-x compile to a key to run the perl script. But as I say in the blog, despite using emacs for 30 years I'm still a philistine. My elisp-fu is long dead. On 17 Jan 2014, at 10:18, Andrew london...@unitedgames.co.uk wrote: Looking to try using an Integrated Development Environment. Is there an industry standard everyone uses and I should get familiar with, or will any do? My previous experience is with NotePad and TextWrangler. I've Windows98SE and OSX 10.5.8 [Leopard] ;-), and use both in tandem via a KVM switch, XD. Thanks in advance, =). Yours, Andrew.
Re: OT: Flat Swap Vienna - London
The suburbs aren't that scary. Most of zone 3 is but a short hop
from interesting places. And indeed, there are interesting places
out in the wilds too!
On 8 Jan 2014, at 21:55, Thomas Klausner d...@cpan.org wrote:
Hi!
My family (me, girlfriend and my younger son (13)) are currently thinking
of spending two to three weeks in London this summer. But instead of
staying in a hotel, we'd like to find somebody who wants to swap
appartments with us.
We live (with a cat!) in a sunny apparment in a nice and central area of
Vienna, Austria, very near to the Riesenrad / Prater. We're looking for an
appartment / flat / whatever in London, prefering a central-ish location to
something in the suburbs, for three people (it would be ok for me if my son
has
to sleep on some sofa :-)
So if you want to spend a few weeks in Vienna somewhen between ~14th July and
~20th August, or know somebody who might, (or need someone reliable to water
your plants and/or feed your cat while you're neither in London nor Vienna)
please send me an email!
Thanks,
domm
--
#!/usr/bin/perl http://domm.plix.at
for(ref bless{},just'another'perl'hacker){s-:+-$-gprint$_.$/}
Re: PDF to CSV?
Indeed, only PDF going back in time. CAM::PDF has getpdftext.pl which is where I'm currently positioning my yak. On 12 Dec 2013, at 11:07, Leo Lapworth l...@cuckoo.org wrote: I've got some code somewhere for doing this for HSBC's HTML statements I tried for their PDF's (which is the only available format for their credit card) but the formatting (of the PDF) was such a pain that I gave up. I thought Barclays let you export as csv in any case? - might just be last X months I guess On 12 December 2013 10:47, Dave Hodgkinson daveh...@gmail.com wrote: I'm about to hit CPAN, but any wisdom from you lovely people would be nice! I've got bank statements in PDF from Barclays. Would it be easy to produce a CSV of the statement parts from them? What's the go-to PDF module?
Re: PDF to CSV?
OK, It puts each column on a new line but that's not the end of the world. On 12 Dec 2013, at 11:21, DAVID HODGKINSON daveh...@me.com wrote: Indeed, only PDF going back in time. CAM::PDF has getpdftext.pl which is where I'm currently positioning my yak. On 12 Dec 2013, at 11:07, Leo Lapworth l...@cuckoo.org wrote: I've got some code somewhere for doing this for HSBC's HTML statements I tried for their PDF's (which is the only available format for their credit card) but the formatting (of the PDF) was such a pain that I gave up. I thought Barclays let you export as csv in any case? - might just be last X months I guess On 12 December 2013 10:47, Dave Hodgkinson daveh...@gmail.com wrote: I'm about to hit CPAN, but any wisdom from you lovely people would be nice! I've got bank statements in PDF from Barclays. Would it be easy to produce a CSV of the statement parts from them? What's the go-to PDF module?
Re: PDF to CSV?
Sadly, that failed on a Barclays statement. On 12 Dec 2013, at 11:50, Kieren Diment dim...@gmail.com wrote: pdftotext++ I've had lots of success with that for a variety of use-cases. I wouldn't bother with a more robust library based solution for personal data mangling problems. On 12/12/2013, at 10:17 PM, Stanislaw Pusep wrote: 1) xpdf's pdftotext CLI utility 2) regexp On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Dave Hodgkinson daveh...@gmail.comwrote: I'm about to hit CPAN, but any wisdom from you lovely people would be nice! I've got bank statements in PDF from Barclays. Would it be easy to produce a CSV of the statement parts from them? What's the go-to PDF module?
Re: PDF to CSV?
Not sure what you're trying to tell me here. It can read PDF? What? On 12 Dec 2013, at 11:49, Aaron Trevena aaron.trev...@gmail.com wrote: Hi David, http://search.cpan.org/~audreyt/Template-Extract-0.41/lib/Template/Extract.pm could work better for extracting formatted text like this maybe A
Re: PDF to CSV?
On 12 Dec 2013, at 13:39, David Dorward da...@dorward.me.uk wrote: On 12 Dec 2013, at 12:41, DAVID HODGKINSON wrote: Not sure what you're trying to tell me here. It can read PDF? What? PDF files do have plain text in them, it just just wrapped in markup, control characters and binary blobs (for things like embedded images and fonts). It's possible that the data you want can be extracted from them by finding the appropriate bit of text in the file and using the code around it as a match in Template::Extract. My life is diminishing too rapidly for that.
Re: isolating thread-unsafe modules
On 30 Jul 2013, at 14:54, David Cantrell da...@cantrell.org.uk wrote: On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 10:02:25PM +0100, Bob MacCallum wrote: Good question - I have always hacked something with fork in the past but it just seemed so simple with Thread::Queue and threads. I've never needed much IPC in the past. Parallel::ForkManager has some (evil, hacky*) support for returning data from a forked child to the parent. And I've used it. Works fine. * the right sort of evil and hacky though -- David Cantrell | Cake Smuggler Extraordinaire fdisk format reinstall, doo-dah, doo-dah; fdisk format reinstall, it's the Windows way
Re: Quarantining crap HTML?
On 21 May 2013, at 13:08, Dave Cross d...@dave.org.uk wrote: http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Wow, you can put links in email. Amazing!
Re: Quarantining crap HTML?
Upon sleeping on it, this was the direction I was headed in. The problem is the HTML is user-generated and we know where that leads. On 21 May 2013, at 13:14, Philip Skinner m...@philip-skinner.co.uk wrote: You can specify the content of an iframe using a javascript call in the src: iframe src=javascript:'htmlbodybhurrah, another iframe/b/body/html';/iframe On 05/21/2013 01:57 PM, Ben Vinnerd wrote: You could try putting it in iframe (which doesn't support inline html, so you'd have to load it with src=/path/to/buggered_html_loader) On 21 May 2013 12:31, Dave Hodgkinson da...@hodgkinson.org wrote: In keeping with the spirit of the list, this isn't directly a perl question but it might be part of the solution. I'm picking up HTML from another site, and that HTML is pretty crappy. Is there any way of quarantining it so it doesn't bugger up the rest of the page?
Re: A simple and elegant job application
On 15 May 2013, at 11:21, Travis Basevi tra...@cricinfo.com wrote: http://www.mythic-beasts.com/cgi-bin/job.pl This is SO base 10-centric.
Re: WWW::Lovefilm::API?
I had old credentials. And yes, I got search to work enough for me. Thanks, Dave On 9 May 2013, at 09:43, Paul Mooney paul.moo...@phymatics.co.uk wrote: I created the package a while back when I worked at LOVEFiLM so I could understand the API before using internally. As far as I know it still works but they are not giving out access to new devs. On 08.05.2013 16:46, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: Anyone still using this? Assuming you have credentials from before they shut it off.
Re:
On 3 May 2013, at 16:45, Pierre M piema...@gmail.com wrote: Hi David, what solution did you choose for your throttled API? Did you try Schedule::AdaptiveThrottler ? I know i'll need to do something similar in the next few months, i've just been pushing it off. Me? I've forgotten what the original requirement was!
Re: OpenTech
On 7 May 2013, at 07:19, Dave Cross d...@dave.org.uk wrote: Hope to see some of you there. I shall try to bimble along...
Re:
On 3 May 2013, at 15:04, Joel Bernstein j...@fysh.org wrote: The jobs list is -- that way. Berlin.pm is -- that way.
Re: Handling an API with a throttle?
That looks very plausible. The unpaid version of the API I'm calling is 2/second and 5000/day. Doing a backoff of a request fails isn't really the end of the world until we get funded :) On 14 Apr 2013, at 00:21, Pierre M piema...@gmail.com wrote: I found this: https://metacpan.org/module/Schedule::AdaptiveThrottler If you use it, please feedback: i might use it in the future. On 13 April 2013 23:05, DAVID HODGKINSON daveh...@gmail.com wrote: Opposite direction, making calls to an external API... On 13 Apr 2013, at 22:57, Schmoo schmoos...@gmail.com wrote: Do you mean something like these? https://metacpan.org/module/App::Cerberus#App::Cerberus::Plugin::Throttle https://metacpan.org/module/Plack::Middleware::Throttle https://metacpan.org/module/IO::Lambda::Throttle Gaz On 13 April 2013 22:32, Dave Hodgkinson da...@hodgkinson.org wrote: Any nice tricks for this? Calling this from a web app, although I don't have to. I'm assuming the right answer is some form queue with a daemon plucking requests off. Any other useful suggestions?
Re: Handling an API with a throttle?
Opposite direction, making calls to an external API... On 13 Apr 2013, at 22:57, Schmoo schmoos...@gmail.com wrote: Do you mean something like these? https://metacpan.org/module/App::Cerberus#App::Cerberus::Plugin::Throttle https://metacpan.org/module/Plack::Middleware::Throttle https://metacpan.org/module/IO::Lambda::Throttle Gaz On 13 April 2013 22:32, Dave Hodgkinson da...@hodgkinson.org wrote: Any nice tricks for this? Calling this from a web app, although I don't have to. I'm assuming the right answer is some form queue with a daemon plucking requests off. Any other useful suggestions?
Re: A stranger arrives in town ...
On 10 Apr 2013, at 13:45, Dirk Koopman d...@tobit.co.uk wrote: On 10/04/13 12:33, Chris Jack wrote: On 09/04/2013 09:08, Smylers wrote: David H. Adler writes: Cellphone Warehouse? Carphone Warehouse -- they aren't a warehouse, and they don't sell car-phones. Which raised the question in my mind about whether anyone sold carphones at all. And surprisingly (to me at any rate), they still exist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_phone However carphone warehouse doesn't appear to sell even the ones that don't really require installation like the Nokia 810. Go figure. Not certain you can still buy a Nokia N810, but these days (some) car radios do something a bit cleverer than plain bluetooth audio: they *share* the sim in your phone (via bluetooth) with their own built in GSM hardware and aerial and become - yes - a Car Phone! The phone GSM hardware is actually disabled whilst the car hardware has grabbed the sim and, on some models, if you (can) use the phone itself, it effectively becomes the bluetooth audio device to (what is now) the Car Phone. The phone becomes the car. Like Transformers!
Re: Any known islandic Perl Mongers?
Joel, He's German. Island is what it's called in German: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island On 5 Apr 2013, at 14:18, Joel Bernstein j...@fysh.org wrote: Do you mean *Iceland*? If so Avar is there, at least. Otherwise you might want to specify which island you mean. Britain is an island after all. /joel On 5 April 2013 15:13, Roland Schmitz sc...@web.de wrote: Hi *, actually i plan to stay for 2-3 weeks in june in island. So i thougt it will be fine to meet some local perl mongers. As i noticed on pm.org, there is no local group. Does somebody know some iclandc perl mogers which might be interested in staying one evening in a pub with me? -- Mit freundlichem GrussYours sincerely Roland Schmitz
Re: A stranger arrives in town ...
On 5 Apr 2013, at 19:01, James E Keenan jk...@verizon.net wrote: I just want to confirm that I'll be arriving in London tomorrow (Sat Apr 6) and be looking forward to meeting london.pm-ers on Mon Apr 8 at 6:30 pm at The Gunmakers on Eyre Street Hill. Any change of plans (or if anyone wants to get together sooner than Monday night), please email me, as I probably won't have a working cell once I step on the plane. Will be headed to Lancaster for QA hackathon later in the week Thank you very much. Jim Keenan Pay as you go SIM cards are very cheap. Go into one of those mobile phone shops at random. Don't listen to whining about which one sucks: they all do.
#HNLondon?
Anyone else going tomorrow?
Re: API wrapper best practices?
Really? Got a good example of where this is done and isn't a pain in the ass? On 23 Mar 2013, at 16:05, Mike Whitaker m...@altrion.org wrote: You mean apart from doing all the things you just said you're not going to do? On 23 Mar 2013, at 16:01, Dave Hodgkinson da...@hodgkinson.org wrote: So I'm writing an interface to an API. It's a simple info request one. What top tips do we have for writing one that doesn't suck? I'd just go for a new that takes the auth info, methods to go fetch the information and being lazy, just let the data be accessible through the selfish hash. I'm not going to create objects for all the data objects at this point nor accessors for the individual fields. Well, maybe a few key ones. Suggestions for anything better, lazier, more modern?
Re: API wrapper best practices?
Are there any tutorial type docs for Moose Meta the way you used it or which man page should I be able to work it out from? Ta, On 23 Mar 2013, at 17:03, Iain C Docherty londonperlmong...@iandocherty.com wrote: If you want to be really lazy, do what I did in a very similar circumstance. I used Moose to create two classes, one which was a general purpose method to access the api, and in which was a factory object that created a 'Row' class. In that class I used the Moose Meta to create accessors on the fly for each data attribute. Better in my opinion than returning a nasty hash. - icydee On 23 March 2013 16:36, Pierre M piema...@gmail.com wrote: Probably, additional methods should not be part of the wrapper layer, but should constitute a just-the-next-layer.
Re: API wrapper best practices?
On 23 Mar 2013, at 21:19, Dave Lambley dave.lamb...@gmail.com wrote: On 23 March 2013 20:50, DAVID HODGKINSON daveh...@gmail.com wrote: Are there any tutorial type docs for Moose Meta the way you used it or which man page should I be able to work it out from? Moose::Meta::Class and Moose::Meta::Attribute are probably what you want. I have an over engineered example here, https://github.com/OpenIMP/OpenIMP-APIClient/blob/master/lib/OpenIMP/APIClient/Loader.pm#L121 where a schema described in YAML is inflated into a Moose class hierarchy. Hm. I'll look at this. In my use-case both APIs are going to poke stuff straight into a database so you're probably going tell me there's Cat Model stuff I should be doing too...?
Re: New perl features?
On 19 Mar 2013, at 14:39, David Cantrell da...@cantrell.org.uk wrote: I'd like to talk about cheese. Then start a new thread under a relevant subject. Netiquette 101. Seek out the Dark Knights of Cholesterol.
Re: New perl features?
On 16 Mar 2013, at 08:31, Dave Cross d...@dave.org.uk wrote: On 03/15/2013 10:40 PM, DAVID HODGKINSON wrote: ~~ and //= are the only new sigils I don't think 'sigils' means what you seem to think it means :-) Line noise?
Re: New perl features?
On 16 Mar 2013, at 09:09, Tom Hukins t...@eborcom.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 09:40:53PM +, DAVID HODGKINSON wrote: On 15 Mar 2013, at 18:31, Mike Stok m...@stok.ca wrote: Even if it wasn't ... the question I try to ask is How can I make it easier to deploy my app? rather than What must I do to fit into your infrastructure?. Not what I was asking. That doesn't matter. Mike described the question he tries to ask and considered an answer to that question. This list allows us to discuss things that interest us and explore ideas related to the original question, even if they don't address that question directly. Then start a new thread under a relevant subject. Netiquette 101. It *is* a good topic and warrants a subject that attracts attention from people suffering from version angst.
Re: 3/15/2013 10:26:49 AM
On 15 Mar 2013, at 10:24, Nicholas Clark n...@ccl4.org wrote: http://www.occamobile.com/ this bit and that bit: zhvrm/htdza/hsp/gr/vo Obviously, don't follow that link in anything more sophisticated than wget. Sigh, is there an easy way to put all Yahoo! accounts onto manual moderation, given how easy it seems to be for blackhats and bots to hijack them and spew malware? It originated from 109.103.92.141 which is in Romania. More likely a Joe-job.
Re: 3/15/2013 10:26:49 AM
On 15 Mar 2013, at 10:24, Nicholas Clark n...@ccl4.org wrote: http://www.occamobile.com/ this bit and that bit: zhvrm/htdza/hsp/gr/vo Obviously, don't follow that link in anything more sophisticated than wget. I just got this again from a perl-unrelated source.
New perl features?
Is there a cookbook (no, not a manual) of shiny, useful new features in perls since 5.8.8?
Re: New perl features?
So, no then. In the sense of having a single page of good examples of using the new features. On 15 Mar 2013, at 12:39, Alex Balhatchet ka...@slackwise.net wrote: On 15 March 2013 12:28, DAVID HODGKINSON daveh...@gmail.com wrote: Is there a cookbook (no, not a manual) of shiny, useful new features in perls since 5.8.8? I think there's been a fairly consistent Perl Workshop or YAPC talk (and accompanying set of slides) each year that generally covers things. Perl 5.10 (acme) - http://www.slideshare.net/acme/perl-510 Perl 5.12 (acme) - http://www.slideshare.net/acme/whats-new-inperl Perl 5.14 (Andrew Shitov) - http://www.slideshare.net/andy.sh/whats-new-in-perl-514 Perl 5.16 (Pavel) http://www.slideshare.net/fxzuz/perl-516-new-features Not exactly a cookbook, but a good summary of the new features added. Also I've been checking the perldelta files each time (eg. https://metacpan.org/module/RJBS/perl-5.16.3/pod/perl5160delta.pod) and I don't think any major release has made perl *slower*, so if your intention is to sell perl upgrades to management that's always a good line :-) - Alex
Re: New perl features?
On 15 Mar 2013, at 14:00, Mark Fowler m...@twoshortplanks.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 9:04 AM, DAVID HODGKINSON daveh...@gmail.com wrote: So, no then. In the sense of having a single page of good examples of using the new features. It would make a good article for publication. If nobody else does, I will. I have a shoulders of giants post backed up first though.
Re: New perl features?
On 15 Mar 2013, at 14:49, Greg McCarroll g...@mccarroll.org.uk wrote: On 15 Mar 2013, at 13:29, James Laver wrote: On 15 Mar 2013, at 13:04, DAVID HODGKINSON daveh...@gmail.com wrote: So, no then. In the sense of having a single page of good examples of using the new features. With so many orgs stuck on ancient perls, it may not be a full solution. Sure it may attract newbies but if they get a job with an ancient perl they're going to be disappointed they can't use all that shiny. IMHO, the best marketing materials you could create would be a list of what the lead developers of a module are using. Having a note that 5.14 supports feature Foo will never persuade as many organisations as having Tim Bunce saying he works daily with the 5.14 stack in his day job and DBI development (or a similar statement). In two orgs I've worked in recently, the trick was defining perl as part of the application stack and taking out of the hands of the wookies. perlbrew has helped immensely with this. But this wasn't my original question.
Re: New perl features?
On 15 Mar 2013, at 18:31, Mike Stok m...@stok.ca wrote: Even if it wasn't ... the question I try to ask is How can I make it easier to deploy my app? rather than What must I do to fit into your infrastructure?. Not what I was asking.
Re: New perl features?
Right. Been through that lot and have some bullet points ready. Slideshare doesn't allow cut and paste. WTF? Anyhow, it seems like I was fretting about very little. ~~ and //= are the only new sigils and there's a LOT of evolution with Unicode, docs, tests and allegedly, performance. If I put up the bullets, would people feel like adding nice examples of the features being used in the wild? On 15 Mar 2013, at 12:39, Alex Balhatchet ka...@slackwise.net wrote: On 15 March 2013 12:28, DAVID HODGKINSON daveh...@gmail.com wrote: Is there a cookbook (no, not a manual) of shiny, useful new features in perls since 5.8.8? I think there's been a fairly consistent Perl Workshop or YAPC talk (and accompanying set of slides) each year that generally covers things. Perl 5.10 (acme) - http://www.slideshare.net/acme/perl-510 Perl 5.12 (acme) - http://www.slideshare.net/acme/whats-new-inperl Perl 5.14 (Andrew Shitov) - http://www.slideshare.net/andy.sh/whats-new-in-perl-514 Perl 5.16 (Pavel) http://www.slideshare.net/fxzuz/perl-516-new-features Not exactly a cookbook, but a good summary of the new features added. Also I've been checking the perldelta files each time (eg. https://metacpan.org/module/RJBS/perl-5.16.3/pod/perl5160delta.pod) and I don't think any major release has made perl *slower*, so if your intention is to sell perl upgrades to management that's always a good line :-) - Alex
Re: [Contract] 3 monther in Kent
On 23 Feb 2013, at 18:02, Ben Vinnerd b...@vinnerd.com wrote: Location is in the middle of Kent Which has to be better than Stockley Park. So win all round.
Re:
Can someone quarantine him please? I've spamcopped both I've had so far, although it was nice to see Allegis on the CC: list... :) On 24 Jan 2013, at 20:18, Schmoo schmoos...@gmail.com wrote: http://nim-f.com/wp-content/themes/nimf/yahoolook321.php
Re: Offtopic(ish) ops question
I have no reason at this point not to. Oh, OK, you twisted my arm. On 19 Jan 2013, at 18:27, Peter Sergeant p...@clueball.com wrote: Why not use the latest stable? No good reason I can see to use an old Perl... On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 6:15 PM, Dave Hodgkinson daveh...@gmail.com wrote: New VM, installing CPAN deps (cpanm obvs). I know all the apps are going to be the same level of stuff as they'll all be latest Cat/DBIC and so on, and for laziness reasons, that's how it is on my dev VM. It's perl 5.10.1 and I don't knowingly do anything post BBC 5.8.8. Just install CPANM modules into the main perl? No reason to brew a new perl?
Re: Offtopic(ish) ops question
On 19 Jan 2013, at 19:43, Avleen Vig avl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Dave Hodgkinson daveh...@gmail.com wrote: New VM, installing CPAN deps (cpanm obvs). I know all the apps are going to be the same level of stuff as they'll all be latest Cat/DBIC and so on, and for laziness reasons, that's how it is on my dev VM. It's perl 5.10.1 and I don't knowingly do anything post BBC 5.8.8. Just install CPANM modules into the main perl? No reason to brew a new perl? It depends on your approach to systems management. It's fine. Brewed a perl, cpanm-ed my Makefile.PL (thank you dotcloud) and was up and running in less than half an hour. Including the time it took me to root the mysql on the VPS. \m/
Re: cpan you have to see
On 15 Dec 2012, at 08:40, Abigail abig...@abigail.be wrote: On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 09:45:25PM +, DAVID HODGKINSON wrote: Would hurling a PBP test at the whole of CPAN to get a metric be of any benefit? That would violate the spirit of the PBP, which clearly states that its rules shall not be taken as gospel, but as starting points to make up your own mind. It's kwalitee. It's just a metric. Like running coverage measurement on tests. It tells you where the gaps are. Heh, maybe another metric for the smoker.
Re: Prepare for invasion.
On 12 Dec 2012, at 23:28, David H. Adler d...@panix.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 11:02:35PM +, Mark Keating wrote: On 12/12/2012 22:31, David H. Adler wrote: Assuming things go to plan, I shall be coming to London December 23rd to 30th. So I was wondering if anyone's going to be around? I'm actually coming over to go to the theatre, but I figure I can fit you guys in somewhere. :-) dha Son of bitch, wait I might be in the London area, with family and kids around that time, but probably not free for a meet which is a shame as it would be good to see you, oh well, which theatre? What shows? Well, maybe we can grab a quick drink or something. In any case, I'm specifically going to try to see Twelfth Night at the Apollo. Beyond that, I'm still working on it. We Will Rock You 39 Steps Anything at the Globe. Is the Mousetrap still running?
Re: boolean return (was Re: cpan you have to see)
On 12 Dec 2012, at 21:17, Uri Guttman u...@stemsystems.com wrote:
On 12/12/2012 12:57 PM, Joseph Werner wrote:
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Gareth Harper spansh+lon...@gmail.com
wrote:
PBP and I disagree with you on this one, Gareth. When a sub does a
return 0; to a list context, that is interpreted as true. A bare
return; is best practice.
and i support that as well. the argument i get from the other side is when
calling foo() in a list context that needs a scalar like a hash value:
sub foo { ... return if $bad }
%bar = ( foo = foo() ) ; # fail
my counter answer is to use scalar there:
%bar = ( foo = scalar foo() ) ;
the win here is letting the caller decide on the context of the boolean
return. if you do a return undef (or 0 or '') then the caller can't ever use
the sub in a list context expecting an empty list, it always gets a scalar. a
plain return works in all contexts and lets the caller force a scalar when
needed.
Coming from a strongly-typed background (C, C++), this bisexuality
of returns seems error prone to me. My gut instinct is to have two
subs, if necessary with one _as_scalar and one _as_hash. Clear, separate
and less open to errors like these.
Am I missing some kind of magic here?
Re: cpan you have to see
On 12 Dec 2012, at 18:35, Abigail abig...@abigail.be wrote:
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:57:39AM -0500, Uri Guttman wrote:
On 12/12/2012 07:12 AM, Leon Brocard wrote:
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 02:29:24AM -0500, Uri Guttman wrote:
i can't say much about this but you have to look at the code here.
https://metacpan.org/author/PERLOOK/
I congratulate Alexej on joining the CPAN authors club. Instead of making
fun
of him on a mailing list why not engage with him and help him improve?
look at his early rt ticket replies. and i did engage him and admonish
his attitude. his reply was more normal but he still thinks his code is
doing something useful and even correct. i will point him in better
directions later today.
but he should be learning basic perl on his own box and wait for
publishing until he has something to show. what is up there is very
broken ('#' is false in his world) and he doesn't know it.
The power of CPAN is that it is available to *ALL*.
Noone is forcing you to use what's there. If you think it's crappy, don't
use it. If it pisses you off people prefer to use a module that you think
is crappy, write something better. After all, most people just want to
fix a problem, and they don't (usually rightly) how it's solved.
If only code that is approved by a cabal is allowed on CPAN, it will
quickly become something else then it's now.
Do we still have automated kwalitee on CPAN?
Would hurling a PBP test at the whole of CPAN to get a metric be of any benefit?
Re: london.pm Digest, Vol 86, Issue 13
On 12 Dec 2012, at 21:33, Alexej Magura perl...@cpan.org wrote: How does one know when one 'has something to show'? Gaz When the Overloads convene with the Cerebrates and the Overmind agrees with them and they give you the greenlight-means-go signal, or at least that's what *I've heard*. :P j/k. Woah. Welcome to the long dark September of the soul. Point of netiquette: please don't quote an entire digest when replying, especially with the kind of flippant reply I usually do. Better still, don't use a digest at all. In this day and age, our mail clients have filters and threading which is much nicer.
Another hackday...
For those of you of the Oxford persuasion: http://www.meetup.com/UK-Hackathons-and-Jams/events/94330082/ The grass-roots NHS Hack Day comes to Oxford for the weekend: We bring together doctors, nurses, developers, designers, and other geeks who love the NHS to create disruptive solutions to problems in the health space. Goto http://nhshackday.com/...
Another hackday...
For those of you of the Oxford persuasion: http://www.meetup.com/UK-Hackathons-and-Jams/events/94330082/ The grass-roots NHS Hack Day comes to Oxford for the weekend: We bring together doctors, nurses, developers, designers, and other geeks who love the NHS to create disruptive solutions to problems in the health space. Goto http://nhshackday.com/...
Science Hackday
A Wellcome one: http://rewiredstate.org/hacks/wellcome-trust-open-science Anyone?
Outreach III
These guys seem to be pulling together all the hackathons: http://www.meetup.com/UK-Hackathons-and-Jams/ Yell if you go!
Access to throttled API
So, I might be writing an app to access a throttled API. Say we're limited to sixty requests per minute. It's entirely possible that we generate more requests than that at peak times. The app is not especially immediacy-sensitive for things like reporting. The remote system can take its time generating reports so for some things, showing pending isn't a dead loss, we can always re-run the request later to get the data. There should be some form of global throttle manager just keeping track of our usage. All our user interaction can be logged in the database and pulled out and actioned by some form of daemon maybe? The daemon can even prioritise interactive operations agains the longer batchy one and unfilfilled reports. Thoughts on managing this?
Outreach II
OK, so great bikeshedding there. Are we in a position to form a team to go hang at the meetups and make our presence felt? Meetups include, but are not limited to: DevTank MiniBar FlagonsDen AngelHack SiliconRoundabout Unsexy Startups and various ancillary techs like NoSQL, web servers, Javascript and so on. Offers?
Re: Send a newbie
OK, that's cool. I got pinged by an Indian perl dev on Linkedin about visas and getting out there was one of my later recommendations. On 28 Nov 2012, at 15:37, Andrew Shitov a...@shitov.ru wrote: I hope there will be more information after we launch the site for the YAPC::Europe 2013. We plan to have attendees from the SAN programme in Kiev. On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 4:07 PM, DAVID HODGKINSON daveh...@gmail.com wrote: Is it dead? It seems to be 2011 right now. Which I don't mind, it was a pretty good year. http://www.send-a-newbie.enlightenedperl.org/applications.html -- Andrew Shitov __ a...@shitov.ru | http://shitov.ru
Re: London Perl Conference 2012 photos
On 25 Nov 2012, at 17:38, Pedro Figueiredo m...@pedrofigueiredo.org wrote: On 25 Nov 2012, at 17:25, James Laver james.la...@gmail.com wrote: Not entirely flattering. You must have picked a hell of a moment. No, this is a hell of a moment: https://picasaweb.google.com/104598318166622233830/LondonPerlConference24112012#5814779296635010610 Why is character encoding still a problem? IME it isn't with a recent perl, a recent MySQL and the right holy camel pee at the right time. http://www.cineastic.co.uk/ was WAY less trauma than something not dissimilar on BBC steampunk infrastructure.
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On 20 Nov 2012, at 16:30, Abigail abig...@abigail.be wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 11:22:14AM -0500, Uri Guttman wrote: On 11/20/2012 11:00 AM, Dave Cross wrote: Quoting Uri Guttman u...@stemsystems.com: in that vein you should also mention matt's scripts. evil code but they helped perl gain massive numbers of users. many were kiddies but some actually learned perl. Yes. I'm well aware of the effects of Matt's scripts. In fact I think I may have already mentioned that in this very discussion. you did but i didn't see that before i posted. the number of posts about matt's crap on usenet was enormous. it took the community way too long to rewrite them in clean safe code. that archive is now also forgotten as no one seems to mention them in the age of modern perl and such. That's because the community missed something that the overwhelming majority still seems to miss: easy deployment of ready to use applications. Matt got that part right. As did PHP. And the rest is history.
Re: h2xs -x
Me too! On 5 Nov 2012, at 18:58, Joel Bernstein j...@fysh.org wrote: On 5 November 2012 19:39, Anthony Lucas anthonyjlu...@gmail.com wrote: IMPORTANT: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential. They are intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to anyone or make copies thereof. I'm obviously in violation of this entirely worthy and undoubtedly legally enforceable disclaimer by replying to it, but could we try to keep such nonsense off the list? If it *were* enforceable it'd be a bit of a disaster. /joel
Re: Proprietary Sybase DBI/DBD module
On 30 Oct 2012, at 18:02, Uri Guttman u...@stemsystems.com wrote: On 10/30/2012 01:35 PM, DAVID HODGKINSON wrote: Chris, Can you define proprietary please? It will be shipped with .so files? The source will be there but the license says we can't change it? it seems pretty obvious to me. the sybase people have written a new driver which is being released in binary only form (hence proprietary) Talking with Chris last night, that may not be the case. and also they have written a DBD for it which they will (or have) put on cpan. as usual the DBD will be open source and free. i would expect the binary lib to downloadable but useless without a sybase server which is commercial. There's a free, limited version available. I've used it to develop against in the past. the confusion is from not clearly describing the binary lib vs the perl/cpan DBD module as separate entities. This is true.
Re: Proprietary Sybase DBI/DBD module
On 31 Oct 2012, at 17:33, Jason Clifford ja...@ukfsn.org wrote: On Wed, 2012-10-31 at 17:21 +, DAVID HODGKINSON wrote: it seems pretty obvious to me. the sybase people have written a new driver which is being released in binary only form (hence proprietary) Talking with Chris last night, that may not be the case. I also spoke with him last night and today he has posted a link to some docs for it. The DBD will be normal perl however it will require a client lib which will be a binary only distribution. And hilarity ensued.
Re: Proprietary Sybase DBI/DBD module
On 31 Oct 2012, at 17:53, Joel Bernstein j...@fysh.org wrote: On 31 October 2012 18:42, DAVID HODGKINSON daveh...@gmail.com wrote: On 31 Oct 2012, at 17:33, Jason Clifford ja...@ukfsn.org wrote: The DBD will be normal perl however it will require a client lib which will be a binary only distribution. And hilarity ensued. I don't see why, that's how all the other commercial RDBMS DBDs work... What's so funny? So may distros, so little time. How widely can a single .so be spread across different kernels, libcs and so on? Even VMWare ships source for their drivers so they can be compiled for each flavour of kernel. OK, from that linked page, the requirements are: • Adaptive Server Enterprise – version 15.7 or later. • Open Client and Open Server – version 15.7 or later. • Perl – version 5.14.0 or 5.14.1. • DBD::SybaseASE driver – no specific version requirements. • CT-Library – (CT-Lib API) version 15.7. • Perl DBI – version 1.616. And this leads to: Red Hat EL 5.0 (AMD64/EM64T) Certified view more Red Hat EL 5.0 (IBM POWER) Certified view more Red Hat EL 6.0 (AMD64/EM64T) Certified view more Red Hat EL 6.0 (IBM POWER) Certified view more SuSE SLES 11 (AMD64/EM64T) Certified view more SuSE SLES 11 (IBM POWER) Certified view more And a few Unixes according to http://certification.sybase.com/ucr/productResult.do. So sparse linux support.
Re: Proprietary Sybase DBI/DBD module
On 31 Oct 2012, at 20:00, Joel Bernstein j...@fysh.org wrote: Not to be snarky but the answer here seems to be yes, and what's your point? Companies that make you buy their software (limited, free, development version notwithstanding, limiting the *client* systems you use out of what, fear that you might use their software more widely?
Re: Proprietary Sybase DBI/DBD module
Chris, Can you define proprietary please? It will be shipped with .so files? The source will be there but the license says we can't change it? Anything else? Dave
Re: Hotels for the LPW
Drove past the Travelodge in Stratford today. Looked new and shiny. On 29 Oct 2012, at 19:32, Job van Achterberg j...@xs4all.nl wrote: Hi fellas, My wife and I hope to attend this year (last year was grand). Here's a humble request for couch surfing! I've mailed Peter Corlett but have gotten no response (perhaps some spam filter ate my mail) so I'll just bug all of you with this. In return I can offer homebrewed beer and/or cider, or Dutch (non-psychedelic) cookies. With warmest regards, Job Mallory van Achterberg On 10/26/12 15:30, DAVID HODGKINSON wrote: On 25 Oct 2012, at 09:00, Mark Keating m.keat...@shadowcat.co.uk wrote: Hi all, I have been asked by a couple of people for hotel recommendations in and around the LPW for this year. Traditionally we have always left people to their own devices and the sites like TripAdvisor and Booking.com, but since I have been asked and i know there is a vast wealth of knowledge and experience on this list i thought I might throw the question to the masses. I await, with anticipation, your gracious responses. As a data point, $daughter said the Travelodge near Tower Bridge was skanky.
Re: Hotels for the LPW
On 25 Oct 2012, at 09:00, Mark Keating m.keat...@shadowcat.co.uk wrote: Hi all, I have been asked by a couple of people for hotel recommendations in and around the LPW for this year. Traditionally we have always left people to their own devices and the sites like TripAdvisor and Booking.com, but since I have been asked and i know there is a vast wealth of knowledge and experience on this list i thought I might throw the question to the masses. I await, with anticipation, your gracious responses. As a data point, $daughter said the Travelodge near Tower Bridge was skanky.
Re: anti-javascript-perl-6
On 11 Oct 2012, at 21:29, Arun ragini arunrag...@gmail.com wrote: Hi All, Just in case some one didn't noticed check out http://css.dzone.com/articles/anti-javascript-perl-6 And people would evaluate the new language on its merits rather than being prejudiced by previous experience with Perl. No, it will be tarred with the write-only line noise brush. Damien was right.
Re: BritRuby 2013
On 4 Oct 2012, at 22:22, Paul Makepeace pa...@paulm.com wrote: A niche perl-based language is having its first UK-wide conference http://2013.britruby.com/cfp (with an all-star cast mostly from the US, afaict) Any talks on scaling Ruby?
Available...
Just thought I'd throw it out there so I don't have to deal with recruiters if at all possible, but I'm available right now. Senior level person (scrum master, managed teams etc), decent enough perl programmer, data mappping, DBIx::Class, recently did some Catalyst and only got shouted at by mst a couple of times, bit of a CI evangelist, have set folks up on the Selenium path. I don't mind some short-term contract stuff while I try to unearth the Next Big Thing. I'm central and can get anywhere pretty easily. Thanks!
Re: Available...
On 1 Oct 2012, at 21:15, Paul Makepeace pa...@paulm.com wrote: Do you shout your name because some recruiters shout PERL? Fishing for pearls...
Re: In London this week... meetup?
On 1 Oct 2012, at 20:14, Cosimo Streppone cos...@streppone.it wrote: Hi London.pm, I come in peace from the land of the midnight sun, salmon, potatoes and northern lights, not to mention of Oslo.pm. I happen to be in town for the Velocity conference, and I figured I'd just shoot a message here. It's my first time in the UK, and I thought it'd be nice meeting up. Wednesday or Thursday evening would be best for me. I'm flying back to Oslo on Friday. I believe muttley is also back in blighty, but he's been a bit quiet. Maybe he's too good for us now.
Re: Current State of Auntie Beeb
On 25 Sep 2012, at 22:40, Simon Wistow si...@thegestalt.org wrote: Out of interest which bits of the Beeb are still Perl? Are l.pm-ers still there? And where does http://news.bbc.co.uk fit into everything these days? There's a core in the PIPS kind of area but even some of that is getting migrated to Java. Stuff running on the old Siemens infrastructure is gradually winding down. Perl is not well supported on Forge.
Re: [OT] benchmarking typical programs
On 19 Sep 2012, at 12:09, Nicholas Clark n...@ccl4.org wrote: Does the mighty hive mind of london.pm have any suggestions (preferably useful) of what to use for benchmarking typical Perl programs? Does benchmarking the test suites for a representative subsection of the CPAN world count? And what precisely are you attempting to benchmark? The core behaviour of the perl interpreter itself, or the edge cases of domain-specific work such as parsing XML in pure perl?
Re: [OT] benchmarking typical programs
On 21 Sep 2012, at 11:09, David Cantrell da...@cantrell.org.uk wrote: On 21 Sep 2012, at 10:57, David Hodgkinson daveh...@gmail.com wrote: Does benchmarking the test suites for a representative subsection of the CPAN world count? I doubt it. Each test suite is very repetetetive, so you certainly won't be doing a realistic benchmark re CPU caches and possibly not re the MMU or I/O system. -j
Re: Brainbench perl test?
On 6 Sep 2012, at 22:07, Paul Makepeace pa...@paulm.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Uri Guttman u...@stemsystems.com wrote: maybe i overstepped in calling that a serious coder filter. i would never just use that determining a skilled coder. it could be useful to filter out the total losers. i speak to hiring managers all the time and they give out similar tests just to filter out the losers. There seems to be some evidence that even trivial problems are a good way of filtering, http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2010/02/the-nonprogramming-programmer.html (and neighboring posts) is an interesting entertaining ( slightly disturbing) read. I can't imagine scheduling an in-person interview without a phone screen and ideally a github link beforehand. I like the FizzBuzz test. Not far removed from what I was hit with today.
Re: Brainbench perl test?
On 4 Sep 2012, at 16:07, Smylers smyl...@stripey.com wrote: Piers Cawley writes: Tower of Hanoi is always a better example for solving with recursion than the fibobloodynacci sequence. If nothing else, the recursive solution isn't quite so immediately obvious from the problem, the terminating condition is obvious and an iterative solution isn't quite so hogwhimperingly more efficient. Yes, that's much better. When was the last time you recursed in day to day web type code?
Re: Brainbench perl test?
On 4 Sep 2012, at 17:24, Roger Burton West ro...@firedrake.org wrote: On Tue, Sep 04, 2012 at 05:18:20PM +0100, David Hodgkinson wrote: When was the last time you recursed in day to day web type code? Within the last month. I meant normal people.
Re: Can I get some advice on best way to start Perl Programming
On 31 Aug 2012, at 12:16, Rick Deller r...@eligo.co.uk wrote: Hi all, I have brought a couple of books on the subject which I'm reading through I'm very keen to learn more and how to do it Can anyone suggest more books or another way of doing it ? STFUAWSC.
Re: Can I get some advice on best way to start Perl Programming
On 3 Sep 2012, at 11:36, David Hodgkinson daveh...@me.com wrote: On 31 Aug 2012, at 12:16, Rick Deller r...@eligo.co.uk wrote: Hi all, I have brought a couple of books on the subject which I'm reading through I'm very keen to learn more and how to do it Can anyone suggest more books or another way of doing it ? STFUAWSC. I've been told off for being rude. My intent was honourable even if the execution lacked finesse. My suggestion is: Just Write Some Code. This will get you started much better than reading books. Write some code, then read some documentation, improve your code, add some tests, make your code shorter/faster/clear. Rinse and repeat.
Re: Who made the law?
On 30 Aug 2012, at 21:46, Leo Lapworth l...@cuckoo.org wrote: +1 Other than: London.pm leaders (part or present,) should be London.pm leaders (past or present) Again up to current leader - as London.pm is not and never has been a democracy. And I don't think a mental image of Gillian Keith masturbating falls under any of that. Collateral damage maybe. Ho hum.
Re: Who made the law?
On 31 Aug 2012, at 10:31, Roger Burton West ro...@firedrake.org wrote: On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 04:28:27PM -0400, Mark Fowler wrote: Here's my longer drawn out version, stolen from YAPC::NA's code of conduct. Comments on this are genuinely welcome, and I'll leave it to the current London.pm leader to make a call on what exactly we should adopt (if anything) Code of Conduct My feeling is that this is far too long and offputting. If they have to specify all this in nitpicking detail, it's because they've got people who are trying to game the system and they don't have the guts to throw them out. I'd much rather have a mostly-benevolent dictatorship which is able to treat cases as individual matters than a huge set of rules which still won't cover all eventualities. And the problem with that is the dictatorship yesterday was less than benevolent. Check the logs if necessary.
Re: Which sucks least? Sky, Talktalk to BT broadband?
Sky have been rock solid for me in NW1. I went with them largely because they have the old Easynet unbundled infrastructure. I get 10MB/s that doesn't drop off in the evening. We get our phone line from them too. It's also nice to have free The Cloud wifi when out and about. And as mentioned, if you want TV, then they'll bundle it with discounts and probably give you 3 or 6 months half price. Or something depending on the weather. I blame pfig. On 30 Aug 2012, at 07:15, Andrew Beattie and...@tug.com wrote: i am moving out of the london.pm area, into a broadband wasteland in PA17 5DA, where the nearest exchange is here: http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/WSWEM What, in the option of London.pm would be my least lame broadband option? Andrew
Re: How to retrieve a row, biased by populatity?
On 21 Aug 2012, at 21:54, Fahad Khan fahad.aj.k...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 9:22 PM, Dave Hodgkinson daveh...@gmail.com wrote: Possibly a perl question. SQL would do... Given a set of data, say bands, with each having a ranking, either a review metric or a sales ranking, how would you retrieve a random row, but biased towards the higher ranking? SELECT * FROM band ORDER BY ranking - RAND() * $BIAS DESC LIMIT 1; Fahad. I like this one best. I know I have 850k rows, just pick the n'th on some form of log curve.
Emergency at the Bree
Due to an unexpected outbreak of thirst, there appears to be a dire emergency which can only be slaked with foamy ale at the Bree Louise. @peterdragon will be there shortly, others will dribble in thereafter.
[OT] Bananas
You lot know I have an alter ego as Deep Purple's web slave, and one or two of you even know who they are. We just went live with a one-track-per-day listening party today: http:/www.deep-purple.com/stream/ Enjoy! Dave
Inline::Fortran
Why isn't there one?
Re: london.pm digest, Vol 1 #1485 - 18 msgs
On Tuesday, July 15, 2003, at 07:46 am, Ivor Williams wrote: - Original Message - Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:46:11 +0100 Subject: Re: OT: More sybase related - IDENTIFIER TOO LONG Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: David Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 03:41 PM, Raf wrote: Seems like a bit of poor error handling/reporting on the part of sybase though. Get the SAMS Sybase Unleashed book. Oh, and then read it. Any chance of the ISBN? I would very much like to buy a copy for myself for work, but I can't find it on Amazo On import, by the looks of it: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0672309092/ But! I swear I saw it on the shelves at the Books etc. on London Wall last week.
Re: beer
On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 09:08 PM, David Cantrell wrote: is a fine pub, and the guvnor has excellent taste in both computers and beer. wrong endian, surely?
Re: OT: More sybase related - IDENTIFIER TOO LONG
On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 03:41 PM, Raf wrote: Seems like a bit of poor error handling/reporting on the part of sybase though. Get the SAMS Sybase Unleashed book. Oh, and then read it.
Re: The Community Guide to Birmingham
On Sunday, June 29, 2003, at 03:35 PM, Jody Belka wrote: right now there isn't any content whatsoever on the site, so anyone in the birmingham area or who knows the birmingham area please feel welcome to come along and add something. Jody, There's a very active Brum community on Ecademy (yeah, I know) run by Donato Esposito who is a top bloke, you might tap into that. Dave
Re: Contracts for contractors
On Friday, June 27, 2003, at 05:39 AM, David H. Adler wrote: On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 02:33:52PM +0100, Andrew Wilson wrote: It was a UK system, not exclusively english. We (the UK) abandoned this madness sometime in the 1970's I'm 37 and I barely remember it. I'm 38 and I don't remember it at all. Of course, I don't actually live in the uk. I only know about this stuff from old Monty Python episodes... I do. I was serving in my dad's greengrocer's shop when i was about six. Helped get the till converted to decimal. Bah, duodecimal is the way to go.
Re: [OT] Places to go, people to see...
On Wednesday, June 25, 2003, at 10:14 AM, Peter Sergeant wrote: We're willing to camp or stay in a nice bed and breakfast, and we're both into The Great Big Outdoors (and both have bikes we can use) ... That sounds like Bath and then biking the Kennett and Avon canal through Freshford (pub!) and Avoncliff (pub!) into Bradford on Avon (pubs!).
