[maemo-users] Request for adjustments/changes to maemo repositories.

[James Sparenberg]

All,

   I'm starting to see the effects of the wholesale switch to the 800.  
python2-5 runtimes are listed as available in the app manager when it seems 
they are actually for the 800 not the 770.  Fortunately this has enough 
dependencies that it won't install. (I live dangerously and know that I can 
type 'n' and back out after doing initial apt related tests)

  It will help a lot of people if the repositories/wiki/catalogs could be 
separated so that no less Linux savvy user comes in a bricks their unit.  Not 
to mention the thousands of "My unit is broken it won't let me install X" 
statements.

James
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Re: [maemo-users] Open source Java

[James Sparenberg]

On Wednesday 10 January 2007 07:11, Wahlau - wrote:
> Hi,
>
> i have so far only tried some simple java binaries, and they somehow
> worked (pretty well) as far as i am concerned.
>
> i have however not tested/tried about any plugin for browser... have
> no blinking idea about this at all.. anyone else?
>
> speed wise i can sense its lag (as compared to a centrino. LOL) but
> from the ipaq linux experience it is still quite acceptable.
>
> regards,
> wahlau.

I got similar results.  The reason I checked the plugin is that the page 
mentions the need for minimo browser and that he could now use his nokia with 
his online banks java applications.  

James

>
> On 10/01/07, James Sparenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Monday 08 January 2007 06:22, Wahlau - wrote:
> > > HI all,
> > >
> > > while reading this thread, i made a search and found Sebas got things
> > > working:
> > > http://sebas-nokia770.blogspot.com/2006/12/java-on-nokia-770-simple-and
> > >-eas y.html
> > >
> > > can't try that now, since i don have my 770 with me. Anyone with time
> > > and courage can test it out... shall do when i find some free time
> > > tonight.
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > >
> > > wahlau.
> >
> > wahlau,
> >
> >I'd love to compare results with you so far yes it does install
> > without a hitch (no conflicts no missing libraries etc.) But I haven't
> > been able to find evidence of a plugin for either the opera or the minimo
> > browser. (about:plugins doesn't work dang it.)  still looking into what
> > and were it installed the files most seem to be in /usr/local/.  going to
> > the anfy java page (just to view some applets.) the site claims I have a
> > non-java enabled browser.
> >
> > James
> >
> > > On 08/01/07, Roberto Resoli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > 2007/1/3, Peter Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > > > Well the PhoneME MR2 just released has an Linux ARM version so I
> > > > > don't see why it couldn't run on maemo.
> > > > >
> > > > > https://phoneme.dev.java.net/downloads_page.html
> > > >
> > > > Really interesting, i would like to work on porting this 
> > > >
> > > > Roberto.
> > > >
> > > > > Peter
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > maemo-users mailing list
> > > > maemo-users@maemo.org
> > > > https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
> >
> > ___
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Re: [maemo-users] On-connect event

[Joel Gwynn]

Thanks, Graham!  The reason I asked is that I'm a little paranoid
about losing my new friend, either through carelessness or malice, so
I wanted to tell him to run a script whenever he connects to the net;
it sends the IP address and mac address to a CGI script which records
them for future reference.  Thanks to your dbus-scripts package, it
was a pretty simple affair.  I'd post the source, but it's my first
attempt at python, and it's pretty rough around the edges.

Thanks again for the useful package.

On 1/9/07, Graham Cobb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Tuesday 09 January 2007 21:16, Joel Gwynn wrote:
> Is there a way to create a program that runs automatically every time
> the n770 connects to a wlan?  Where would I begin researching such a
> thing?

You can program the necessary dbus calls yourself.  However, I just created a
tool to do exactly this.  Take a look at dbus-scripts on
http://www.cobb.uk.net/770/index.html.

If you install dbus-scripts you can then create a file in /etc/dbus-scripts.d
containing the line:

/some/script * * com.nokia.icd status_changed * WLAN_INFRA

and /some/script will be called each time a WLAN event notification is seen on
the dbus.  In the script, $5 will be the interface name and $7 the new state
(IDLE, CONNECTED, etc.).

Graham
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Re: [maemo-users] N800: RS-MMC and mini-SD

[Laurent GUERBY]

I went ahead and my 1GB kingston RS-MMC + adapter worked fine
when I plugged it in the internal slot. Created 128MB of swap
on it, no problem after a few hours of use.

N800 feels much more responsive than N770 :).

Laurent
http://guerby.org/blog/

On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 17:13 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Thanks !
> 
> Is this use validated by Nokia (I haven't had the time to read the N800
> documentation yet) ?
> 
> I don't want to fry my shiny new N800 or invalidate the warranty too quickly 
> :).
> 
> Laurent
> 
> Selon Kimmo Hämäläinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> > On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 13:25 +0100, ext Laurent GUERBY wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Will the N800 read RS-MMC (those used by the N770)?
> >
> > Yes, it reads RS-MMC with the adapter that comes in the Nokia 770 sales
> > box.
> > (I just tested the Nokia 64MB RS-MMC that also comes in the sales box.)
> >
> > BR; Kimmo
> >

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[maemo-users] Opera 8 on N800 query

[Roger Sperberg]

I've been working on a browser plugin-combined-with-special-stylesheet[1]
that enables long text reading online to more closely resemble use of an
e-reader.

Unfortunately, the Opera for Devices version in the 770 doesn't permit this
approach.

Does anyone know where I can find the differences identified between that
version and the Opera version 8 said to be included on the N800?

Also -- the technical discussion here on the user list seems more
developer-oriented than I would otherwise expect. What are the current
guidelines of what belongs on the developer list and what on this one?

Thank you,

Roger Sperberg

[1] Actually it's more of a paged stylesheet that can be supplemented with a
plugin to add e-reader features like bookmarks and annotations. The
grand-daddy of paged stylesheets would be S5 (
meyerweb.com/eric/tools/s5/structure-ref.html).
--
firstinitial lastname at gmail.com
Cambodian Language Exercises -- cambodian.tiddlyspot.com
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RE: Nokia return/refund policy [ was Re: [maemo-users] ITOS 2007]

[Dr. Nicholas Shaw]

> Where do you find it?
> I found 7 days ( 14 in some country )

Under the terms I had to agree to before purchasing the N800.
Regards,

Nick Shaw
MAJ, US Army Retired
IBA # 11140
Lifetime HOG Member
www.DocHarley.com
 

-Original Message-
From: Michele De Candia Jr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 1:00 PM
To: Dr. Nicholas Shaw
Cc: 'Drew Moseley'; maemo-users@maemo.org
Subject: Re: Nokia return/refund policy [ was Re: [maemo-users] ITOS 2007]

Where do you find it?
I found 7 days ( 14 in some country )

Dr. Nicholas Shaw ha scritto:
> According to the Nokia web site, you have 30 days to return the product if
> it doesn't meet your needs.  
>   

> Nick Shaw
> MAJ, US Army Retired
> IBA # 11140
> Lifetime HOG Member
> www.DocHarley.com
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Drew Moseley
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 11:17 AM
> To: maemo-users@maemo.org
> Subject: Nokia return/refund policy [ was Re: [maemo-users] ITOS 2007]
>
>   
>> My 770 has 2 weeks and I'm going to have a device with no more support.
>> 
> I'm
>   
>> very disappointed
>> 
>
> Just another warning about these devices and the "warranty" service.
>
>  I purchased a 770 in December 2005.  I was having issues with the
> wireless dropping unless I keep a streaming audio source running,
> discussed fully in the bugzilla entry
> https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=329.  After updating to the
> latest firmware, I was still seeing the issue.  Per the comment from
> Maemo QA (comment #61 in the bugzilla entry) I contacted Nokia and was
> advised to return the device for service.  After one month, I contacted
> the service group to find out where my device was.  I was called back by
> the Executive Office (whatever that means) and they informed me that
> unfortunately no repair parts or replacement devices were available (but
> a quick check on Amazon shows that there are devices available;
> evidently just not to Nokia). 
>
> They would be "happy" to offer me a refund but one prorated to my
> usage.  Now I'm not liking the sound of that but I dig up my paperwork
> to find the date of purchase, purchase price, etc.  I contacted them
> this morning with my information.  Now I bought the device in December
> 2005 and finally after waiting for the firmware upgrade that didn't fix
> my issue, returned it in December 2006 (still under warranty even if
> just barely).  They offered to give me a prorated refund based on 6
> months usage rather than the 12 months I actually had the device (how
> nice of them).  They were willing to refund 2/3 of my purchase price
> based on 6 months of usage, indicating that Nokia assumes these devices
> are worthless after 18 months.  Rather than getting stuck with no device
> and only a partial refund I instructed them to send me the device back. 
>
> Maybe I am being overly sensitive about this but to me a partial refund
> is unacceptable.  If I accept that, then I have lost 100% usage of the
> device and if I decide I want to buy another one then I am out an
> additional $120 or so for the first device which was/is faulty.   The
> workaround of leaving streaming audio running is ugly but at least I
> have my device.
>
> Just thought I would pass my experience on to others.
>
>
> Drew
> ___
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> maemo-users@maemo.org
> https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>
>
> ___
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> https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>
>   



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Re: Nokia return/refund policy [ was Re: [maemo-users] ITOS 2007]

[Miles Fidelman]

I'm in a similar boat.  I bought my 770 about 4 months ago, so I'm now 
stuck with an obsolete unit.


I'm reminded that back when Apple was making the Newton, they offered 
early purchasers an exchange policy when the newer models came out - it 
wasn't free, but it was reasonable, and motivated me to trade in my 
older Newton for the 2100 (the last model made, and still a really nice 
machine).

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Re: Nokia return/refund policy [ was Re: [maemo-users] ITOS 2007]

[Brian Spindel]

In addition to these justified concerns about reliability and warranty, I 
understand that we [SHOULD] have an issue with lack of ongoing support.  
Threads earlier today seem to say that Nokia is now focused entirely on 
development and support for the N880, and that I'll soon be a not-so-proud 
owner of an unsupported, expensive model 770 brick.  If true, I wouldn't think 
any of us would be foolish enough to assume that the N880 won't be abandoned as 
well about two years from now.

 -Brian


- Start Original Message -
Sent: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:43:29 -0500
From: Acadia Secure Networks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Nokia return/refund policy [ was Re: [maemo-users] ITOS 2007]

> Nick,
> 
> that is not a warranty policy however. At the price of the 770 or N800 
> for that matter, Nokia should do better on its hardware support, 
> especially since it supports direct sales from its www site.
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
>  
> 
> John Holmblad
> 
>  
> 
> Acadia Secure Networks
> 
> GSEC Gold, GCWN Gold, GGSC-0100, NSA-IAM, NSA-IEM
> serving the digital home, entrepreneurial enterprise, and emerging 
> carrier markets
> 
>  
> 
> (M) 703 407 2278
> 
> (F)  703 620 5388
> 
> primary email address:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> backup email address:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > According to the Nokia web site, you have 30 days to return the product if
> > it doesn't meet your needs.  
> >
> > Nick Shaw
> > MAJ, US Army Retired
> > IBA # 11140
> > Lifetime HOG Member
> > www.DocHarley.com
> >  
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > On Behalf Of Drew Moseley
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 11:17 AM
> > To: maemo-users@maemo.org
> > Subject: Nokia return/refund policy [ was Re: [maemo-users] ITOS 2007]
> >
> >   
> >> My 770 has 2 weeks and I'm going to have a device with no more support.
> >> 
> > I'm
> >   
> >> very disappointed
> >> 
> >
> > Just another warning about these devices and the "warranty" service.
> >
> >  I purchased a 770 in December 2005.  I was having issues with the
> > wireless dropping unless I keep a streaming audio source running,
> > discussed fully in the bugzilla entry
> > https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=329.  After updating to the
> > latest firmware, I was still seeing the issue.  Per the comment from
> > Maemo QA (comment #61 in the bugzilla entry) I contacted Nokia and was
> > advised to return the device for service.  After one month, I contacted
> > the service group to find out where my device was.  I was called back by
> > the Executive Office (whatever that means) and they informed me that
> > unfortunately no repair parts or replacement devices were available (but
> > a quick check on Amazon shows that there are devices available;
> > evidently just not to Nokia). 
> >
> > They would be "happy" to offer me a refund but one prorated to my
> > usage.  Now I'm not liking the sound of that but I dig up my paperwork
> > to find the date of purchase, purchase price, etc.  I contacted them
> > this morning with my information.  Now I bought the device in December
> > 2005 and finally after waiting for the firmware upgrade that didn't fix
> > my issue, returned it in December 2006 (still under warranty even if
> > just barely).  They offered to give me a prorated refund based on 6
> > months usage rather than the 12 months I actually had the device (how
> > nice of them).  They were willing to refund 2/3 of my purchase price
> > based on 6 months of usage, indicating that Nokia assumes these devices
> > are worthless after 18 months.  Rather than getting stuck with no device
> > and only a partial refund I instructed them to send me the device back. 
> >
> > Maybe I am being overly sensitive about this but to me a partial refund
> > is unacceptable.  If I accept that, then I have lost 100% usage of the
> > device and if I decide I want to buy another one then I am out an
> > additional $120 or so for the first device which was/is faulty.   The
> > workaround of leaving streaming audio running is ugly but at least I
> > have my device.
> >
> > Just thought I would pass my experience on to others.
> >
> >
> > Drew
> > ___
> > maemo-users mailing list
> > maemo-users@maemo.org
> > https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
> >
> >
> > ___
> > maemo-users mailing list
> > maemo-users@maemo.org
> > https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
> >   
> ___
> maemo-users mailing list
> maemo-users@maemo.org
> https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

- End Original Message -
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Re: Nokia return/refund policy [ was Re: [maemo-users] ITOS 2007]

[Acadia Secure Networks]

Nick,

that is not a warranty policy however. At the price of the 770 or N800 
for that matter, Nokia should do better on its hardware support, 
especially since it supports direct sales from its www site.



Best Regards,



John Holmblad



Acadia Secure Networks

GSEC Gold, GCWN Gold, GGSC-0100, NSA-IAM, NSA-IEM
serving the digital home, entrepreneurial enterprise, and emerging 
carrier markets




(M) 703 407 2278

(F)  703 620 5388

primary email address:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

backup email address:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]





[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

According to the Nokia web site, you have 30 days to return the product if
it doesn't meet your needs.  


Nick Shaw
MAJ, US Army Retired
IBA # 11140
Lifetime HOG Member
www.DocHarley.com
 
-Original Message-

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Drew Moseley
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 11:17 AM
To: maemo-users@maemo.org
Subject: Nokia return/refund policy [ was Re: [maemo-users] ITOS 2007]

  

My 770 has 2 weeks and I'm going to have a device with no more support.


I'm
  

very disappointed



Just another warning about these devices and the "warranty" service.

 I purchased a 770 in December 2005.  I was having issues with the
wireless dropping unless I keep a streaming audio source running,
discussed fully in the bugzilla entry
https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=329.  After updating to the
latest firmware, I was still seeing the issue.  Per the comment from
Maemo QA (comment #61 in the bugzilla entry) I contacted Nokia and was
advised to return the device for service.  After one month, I contacted
the service group to find out where my device was.  I was called back by
the Executive Office (whatever that means) and they informed me that
unfortunately no repair parts or replacement devices were available (but
a quick check on Amazon shows that there are devices available;
evidently just not to Nokia). 


They would be "happy" to offer me a refund but one prorated to my
usage.  Now I'm not liking the sound of that but I dig up my paperwork
to find the date of purchase, purchase price, etc.  I contacted them
this morning with my information.  Now I bought the device in December
2005 and finally after waiting for the firmware upgrade that didn't fix
my issue, returned it in December 2006 (still under warranty even if
just barely).  They offered to give me a prorated refund based on 6
months usage rather than the 12 months I actually had the device (how
nice of them).  They were willing to refund 2/3 of my purchase price
based on 6 months of usage, indicating that Nokia assumes these devices
are worthless after 18 months.  Rather than getting stuck with no device
and only a partial refund I instructed them to send me the device back. 


Maybe I am being overly sensitive about this but to me a partial refund
is unacceptable.  If I accept that, then I have lost 100% usage of the
device and if I decide I want to buy another one then I am out an
additional $120 or so for the first device which was/is faulty.   The
workaround of leaving streaming audio running is ugly but at least I
have my device.

Just thought I would pass my experience on to others.


Drew
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Re: Nokia return/refund policy [ was Re: [maemo-users] ITOS 2007]

[Acadia Secure Networks]

Drew,

not to mention the real opportunity cost of your time dealing with the 
problem (minutes or hours of your life that you will not get back).


With respect to its PDA phones Verizon Wireless has a policy of shipping 
out a new unit with an RMA for the old (to be returned) unit to get the 
customer back up and running as quickly as possible after discussing the 
problem over the telephone with the customer and determining that in 
fact there is (probably) a hardware issue.  Now that's a good customer 
confidence building policy. Verizon Wireless of course has a self 
serving interest here which is to get the customer generating call 
minutes again as soon as possible.


Nokia has some learning to do when it comes to customer service.


Best Regards,



John Holmblad



Acadia Secure Networks

GSEC Gold, GCWN Gold, GGSC-0100, NSA-IAM, NSA-IEM
serving the digital home, entrepreneurial enterprise, and emerging 
carrier markets




(M) 703 407 2278

(F)  703 620 5388

primary email address:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

backup email address:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]





[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

My 770 has 2 weeks and I'm going to have a device with no more support. I'm
very disappointed



Just another warning about these devices and the "warranty" service.

 I purchased a 770 in December 2005.  I was having issues with the
wireless dropping unless I keep a streaming audio source running,
discussed fully in the bugzilla entry
https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=329.  After updating to the
latest firmware, I was still seeing the issue.  Per the comment from
Maemo QA (comment #61 in the bugzilla entry) I contacted Nokia and was
advised to return the device for service.  After one month, I contacted
the service group to find out where my device was.  I was called back by
the Executive Office (whatever that means) and they informed me that
unfortunately no repair parts or replacement devices were available (but
a quick check on Amazon shows that there are devices available;
evidently just not to Nokia). 


They would be "happy" to offer me a refund but one prorated to my
usage.  Now I'm not liking the sound of that but I dig up my paperwork
to find the date of purchase, purchase price, etc.  I contacted them
this morning with my information.  Now I bought the device in December
2005 and finally after waiting for the firmware upgrade that didn't fix
my issue, returned it in December 2006 (still under warranty even if
just barely).  They offered to give me a prorated refund based on 6
months usage rather than the 12 months I actually had the device (how
nice of them).  They were willing to refund 2/3 of my purchase price
based on 6 months of usage, indicating that Nokia assumes these devices
are worthless after 18 months.  Rather than getting stuck with no device
and only a partial refund I instructed them to send me the device back. 


Maybe I am being overly sensitive about this but to me a partial refund
is unacceptable.  If I accept that, then I have lost 100% usage of the
device and if I decide I want to buy another one then I am out an
additional $120 or so for the first device which was/is faulty.   The
workaround of leaving streaming audio running is ugly but at least I
have my device.

Just thought I would pass my experience on to others.


Drew
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RE: Nokia return/refund policy [ was Re: [maemo-users] ITOS 2007]

[Dr. Nicholas Shaw]

According to the Nokia web site, you have 30 days to return the product if
it doesn't meet your needs.  

Nick Shaw
MAJ, US Army Retired
IBA # 11140
Lifetime HOG Member
www.DocHarley.com
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Drew Moseley
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 11:17 AM
To: maemo-users@maemo.org
Subject: Nokia return/refund policy [ was Re: [maemo-users] ITOS 2007]

>
> My 770 has 2 weeks and I'm going to have a device with no more support.
I'm
> very disappointed

Just another warning about these devices and the "warranty" service.

 I purchased a 770 in December 2005.  I was having issues with the
wireless dropping unless I keep a streaming audio source running,
discussed fully in the bugzilla entry
https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=329.  After updating to the
latest firmware, I was still seeing the issue.  Per the comment from
Maemo QA (comment #61 in the bugzilla entry) I contacted Nokia and was
advised to return the device for service.  After one month, I contacted
the service group to find out where my device was.  I was called back by
the Executive Office (whatever that means) and they informed me that
unfortunately no repair parts or replacement devices were available (but
a quick check on Amazon shows that there are devices available;
evidently just not to Nokia). 

They would be "happy" to offer me a refund but one prorated to my
usage.  Now I'm not liking the sound of that but I dig up my paperwork
to find the date of purchase, purchase price, etc.  I contacted them
this morning with my information.  Now I bought the device in December
2005 and finally after waiting for the firmware upgrade that didn't fix
my issue, returned it in December 2006 (still under warranty even if
just barely).  They offered to give me a prorated refund based on 6
months usage rather than the 12 months I actually had the device (how
nice of them).  They were willing to refund 2/3 of my purchase price
based on 6 months of usage, indicating that Nokia assumes these devices
are worthless after 18 months.  Rather than getting stuck with no device
and only a partial refund I instructed them to send me the device back. 

Maybe I am being overly sensitive about this but to me a partial refund
is unacceptable.  If I accept that, then I have lost 100% usage of the
device and if I decide I want to buy another one then I am out an
additional $120 or so for the first device which was/is faulty.   The
workaround of leaving streaming audio running is ugly but at least I
have my device.

Just thought I would pass my experience on to others.


Drew
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Nokia return/refund policy [ was Re: [maemo-users] ITOS 2007]

[Drew Moseley]

>
> My 770 has 2 weeks and I'm going to have a device with no more support. I'm
> very disappointed

Just another warning about these devices and the "warranty" service.

 I purchased a 770 in December 2005.  I was having issues with the
wireless dropping unless I keep a streaming audio source running,
discussed fully in the bugzilla entry
https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=329.  After updating to the
latest firmware, I was still seeing the issue.  Per the comment from
Maemo QA (comment #61 in the bugzilla entry) I contacted Nokia and was
advised to return the device for service.  After one month, I contacted
the service group to find out where my device was.  I was called back by
the Executive Office (whatever that means) and they informed me that
unfortunately no repair parts or replacement devices were available (but
a quick check on Amazon shows that there are devices available;
evidently just not to Nokia). 

They would be "happy" to offer me a refund but one prorated to my
usage.  Now I'm not liking the sound of that but I dig up my paperwork
to find the date of purchase, purchase price, etc.  I contacted them
this morning with my information.  Now I bought the device in December
2005 and finally after waiting for the firmware upgrade that didn't fix
my issue, returned it in December 2006 (still under warranty even if
just barely).  They offered to give me a prorated refund based on 6
months usage rather than the 12 months I actually had the device (how
nice of them).  They were willing to refund 2/3 of my purchase price
based on 6 months of usage, indicating that Nokia assumes these devices
are worthless after 18 months.  Rather than getting stuck with no device
and only a partial refund I instructed them to send me the device back. 

Maybe I am being overly sensitive about this but to me a partial refund
is unacceptable.  If I accept that, then I have lost 100% usage of the
device and if I decide I want to buy another one then I am out an
additional $120 or so for the first device which was/is faulty.   The
workaround of leaving streaming audio running is ugly but at least I
have my device.

Just thought I would pass my experience on to others.


Drew
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Re: [maemo-users] Battery Benchmarking?

[Eero Tamminen]

Hi,

Igor Stoppa wrote:

How can I work around this?

*Don't do unnecessary stuff
*Don't poll
*Don't busyloop
*Check system state (by listening for events, again, never poll)
*Keep updates at minimum
*Do updates only if your application is visible, otherwise completely
stop updating the UI till you become again king of the hill
Thanks Igor for nice explanation, what about using threads? For n770 
some time ago people said that using threads (linuxthreads) caused some 
unneeded cpu activity caused by the library itself. Is it still the 
case?



Yes, I remember that, but probably Eero has a much better answer already
available, so i'll let him the honour.


All Maemo releases including Bora, contain non-NPTL threads
implementation which polls.  Polling is done by the thread manager
which is the second process PID in "top" (third if application uses
maemo-launcher). The Maemo version of the thread library is modified
to thread less frequently than at the default 2 sec interval.

This is not a much of a problem unless you're running *many* threading 
programs at the same time.  (gnome-vfs will create threads when app uses

it and this happens also through file selector usage)


>> Are there any other similar gotchas present in the SW stack
>> (glibc/X/gtk)?

X and Gtk are nicely event based and don't poll unnecessarily.

However, LibSDL polls several times a second even when the program using
SDL is  just waiting for events.  (both of the games in the device using
SDL exit and return back to the Gtk startup screen when screen blanks or
game is paused)

More information on the SDL issue is here:
http://bugzilla.libsdl.org/show_bug.cgi?id=323



I tend to prefer the thread approach but for coding and reliability
reasons, but that's probably personal taste.


One needs native gdb (Scratchbox host-cross-gdb one is not enough) and
libc6-dbg package just to get Gdb to list the threads in the process.
The problems are not easily reproducable because with threads they are
more often triggered with specific timing (and debugging changes
that...).  With old Valgrind 2.2 one can use Helgrind on x86 which
sometimes helps.


- Eero
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Re: [maemo-users] N800: RS-MMC and mini-SD

[laurent]

Thanks !

Is this use validated by Nokia (I haven't had the time to read the N800
documentation yet) ?

I don't want to fry my shiny new N800 or invalidate the warranty too quickly :).

Laurent

Selon Kimmo Hämäläinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 13:25 +0100, ext Laurent GUERBY wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Will the N800 read RS-MMC (those used by the N770)?
>
> Yes, it reads RS-MMC with the adapter that comes in the Nokia 770 sales
> box.
> (I just tested the Nokia 64MB RS-MMC that also comes in the sales box.)
>
> BR; Kimmo
>
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Laurent
> > http://guerby.org/blog/
> >
> > ___
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>


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Re: [maemo-users] Battery Benchmarking?

[Igor Stoppa]

On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 13:51 +0100, ext Frantisek Dufka wrote:
> Igor Stoppa wrote:
> > Hi Tim!
> > 
> > On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 19:07 +0100, ext Tim Teulings wrote:
> >> How can I work around this?
> > *Don't do unnecessary stuff
> > *Don't poll
> > *Don't busyloop
> > *Check system state (by listening for events, again, never poll)
> > *Keep updates at minimum
> > *Do updates only if your application is visible, otherwise completely
> > stop updating the UI till you become again king of the hill
> 
> Thanks Igor for nice explanation, what about using threads? For n770 
> some time ago people said that using threads (linuxthreads) caused some 
> unneeded cpu activity caused by the library itself. Is it still the 
> case? Are there any other similar gotchas present in the SW stack 
> (glibc/X/gtk)?
> 
Yes, I remember that, but probably Eero has a much better answer already
available, so i'll let him the honour.

I tend to prefer the thread approach but for coding and reliability
reasons, but that's probably personal taste.

-- 
Cheers, Igor

Igor Stoppa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
(Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland)
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Re: [maemo-users] Re: Battery Benchmarking?

[Igor Stoppa]

On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 13:35 +0100, ext Nicola Larosa wrote:

> I do appreciate your post about kernel timers, polling, and app developer
> responsibilities, and heartily hope you're being sarcastic here. Put
> another way, who gives a [] about the fashion of the day?

Look at it this way: Nokia will provide to hopefully gazillions of happy
customers a linux based device which meets their needs and to thousands
of geeks the opportunity to customise it to fit their needs as well.

What's the catch? Try selling only few units and have fun seeing the
price skyrocket. So mass marketing of fashionable (yes, very fancy and
trendy) devices makes the price deflate for your average geek.

Personally I think that we (as the part of Nokia that takes care of the
design of the device in its base components) should just worry about not
putting constraints in front of hackers when creating products.

Then whoever doesn't feel satisfied with what we provide can have a go
with his own implementation.

> 
> > Yes, we gave up the shrink division and hired more developers :-D
> > No, unfortunately that's only my wild dream.
> 
> Good thing the programmers are *not* running the asylum. ;-P

No, somebody has to provide a reason to keep it open.

-- 
Cheers, Igor

Igor Stoppa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
(Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland)
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Re: [maemo-users] Battery Benchmarking?

[Igor Stoppa]

Hi,
On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 15:35 +0100, ext Simon Budig wrote:

[snip]

> I guess in the future I'll have to use my mobile
> web browser for phone calls as well. Hmm. 
Isn't canola using a webserver for a simple UI?

:-(

-- 
Cheers, Igor

Igor Stoppa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
(Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland)
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Re: [maemo-users] Open source Java

[Wahlau -]

Hi,

i have so far only tried some simple java binaries, and they somehow
worked (pretty well) as far as i am concerned.

i have however not tested/tried about any plugin for browser... have
no blinking idea about this at all.. anyone else?

speed wise i can sense its lag (as compared to a centrino. LOL) but
from the ipaq linux experience it is still quite acceptable.

regards,
wahlau.

On 10/01/07, James Sparenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Monday 08 January 2007 06:22, Wahlau - wrote:
> HI all,
>
> while reading this thread, i made a search and found Sebas got things
> working:
> http://sebas-nokia770.blogspot.com/2006/12/java-on-nokia-770-simple-and-eas
>y.html
>
> can't try that now, since i don have my 770 with me. Anyone with time
> and courage can test it out... shall do when i find some free time
> tonight.
>
> cheers,
>
> wahlau.

wahlau,

   I'd love to compare results with you so far yes it does install without a
hitch (no conflicts no missing libraries etc.) But I haven't been able to
find evidence of a plugin for either the opera or the minimo browser.
(about:plugins doesn't work dang it.)  still looking into what and were it
installed the files most seem to be in /usr/local/.  going to the anfy java
page (just to view some applets.) the site claims I have a non-java enabled
browser.

James

>
> On 08/01/07, Roberto Resoli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 2007/1/3, Peter Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > Well the PhoneME MR2 just released has an Linux ARM version so I don't
> > > see why it couldn't run on maemo.
> > >
> > > https://phoneme.dev.java.net/downloads_page.html
> >
> > Really interesting, i would like to work on porting this 
> >
> > Roberto.
> >
> > > Peter
> >
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Re: [maemo-users] Battery Benchmarking?

[Simon Budig]

Igor Stoppa ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 12:15 +0100, ext Simon Budig wrote:
> > The N800 has no equivalent. When you stop using it, its screen stays
> > lighted for a while - "wasn't there something else you wanted to use me
> > for?", it still demands a certain amount of attention. Then it switches
> > the light off at some point - if it is lying around in your vincinity
> > this is another visible intrusion that you'll notice even from the
> > corner of your eyes. Plus it - at least the prototype I've seen - keeps
> > blinking the blue LED in the cursor pad. Not sure what this is supposed
> > to indicate. Active Network connection? "not really switched off"?
> 
> No, the LED is off by default and the power-savvy user will wisely keep
> it off and even switch it off if it gets accidentally enabled.
> If you are more interested into running your device for longer time than
> having that disco effect, keep it off.

Oh right. It is not my device, so someone probably has played with the
settings. If it is disableable this is fine with me - at least what
concerns the LED.

Also I'd guess that creating an applet for "stop bothering me" (i.e.
blank screen now, shut down the networks) is not really that hard to
create, so this is something that can be "remedied". It just lacks the
nice haptic feedback of sliding the cover on.

> yes, arguable choice, but it can be disabled. 770 wasn't explicitly sold
> as always-on and therefore connectivity got killed by default.
> UI and marketing choices 

I can see the reasoning behind the "always-on" policy, especially when
taking the non-geek into consideration. I guess I am a bit
non-fashionable there - I am not yet a voip-enabled geek and I use my
phone for phone calls. I guess in the future I'll have to use my mobile
web browser for phone calls as well. Hmm. Why is there no GSM in the
N800? (Joke, joke...)   :)

Bye,
Simon
-- 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://simon.budig.de/
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Re: [maemo-users] N800: RS-MMC and mini-SD

[Jonathan Greene]

Nice!

On 1/10/07, Kimmo Hämäläinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 13:25 +0100, ext Laurent GUERBY wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Will the N800 read RS-MMC (those used by the N770)?

Yes, it reads RS-MMC with the adapter that comes in the Nokia 770 sales
box.
(I just tested the Nokia 64MB RS-MMC that also comes in the sales box.)

BR; Kimmo

>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Laurent
> http://guerby.org/blog/
>
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Re: [maemo-users] N800: RS-MMC and mini-SD

[Kimmo Hämäläinen]

On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 13:25 +0100, ext Laurent GUERBY wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Will the N800 read RS-MMC (those used by the N770)?

Yes, it reads RS-MMC with the adapter that comes in the Nokia 770 sales
box.
(I just tested the Nokia 64MB RS-MMC that also comes in the sales box.)

BR; Kimmo

> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Laurent
> http://guerby.org/blog/
> 
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Re: [maemo-users] Battery Benchmarking?

[Frantisek Dufka]

Igor Stoppa wrote:

Hi Tim!

On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 19:07 +0100, ext Tim Teulings wrote:

How can I work around this?

*Don't do unnecessary stuff
*Don't poll
*Don't busyloop
*Check system state (by listening for events, again, never poll)
*Keep updates at minimum
*Do updates only if your application is visible, otherwise completely
stop updating the UI till you become again king of the hill


Thanks Igor for nice explanation, what about using threads? For n770 
some time ago people said that using threads (linuxthreads) caused some 
unneeded cpu activity caused by the library itself. Is it still the 
case? Are there any other similar gotchas present in the SW stack 
(glibc/X/gtk)?


Frantisek
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[maemo-users] Re: Battery Benchmarking?

[rael]

Hello! 


What does that exactly mean (especially for non GTK-based applications
like mine that cannot expect some GTK magic)?



How can I work around this?



Yes, screen blanked should be enough.


Thank you for you in deep description! Things are much clearer now and 
besides DBus-handling I do not see big problems for my applications (it is 
just some work to do and not enough time ;-)). 

OK. So I have to look again at my own DBus-Event Loop implementation . 
No problem ;-) 

I assume that everything works similar using the development system while 
sending DBus events from console? 

Btw., what about adding one or more simple scripts to the development system 
that excatly trigger this events for easier testing? 


--
Gruß...
 Tim. 
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Re: [maemo-users] N800: RS-MMC and mini-SD

[Jonathan Greene]

Think it is just SD and mini sd ... But you get 2 slots!

On 1/10/07, Laurent GUERBY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi,

Will the N800 read RS-MMC (those used by the N770)?

Thanks in advance,

Laurent
http://guerby.org/blog/

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[maemo-users] Re: Battery Benchmarking?

[Nicola Larosa]

Igor Stoppa wrote:
> No, the LED is off by default and the power-savvy user will wisely keep
> it off and even switch it off if it gets accidentally enabled.
> If you are more interested into running your device for longer time than
> having that disco effect, keep it off.

Full agreement on that.


> The LED is meant to tell you, at basic level, "I'm alive even if the
> screen is blank". Plus some other things like "You have email/You have
> missed calls".

The first one is bad, the second may be good (if desired).


>> I am aware that Bluetooth&Wlan power management is very good and that
>> it probably is not that relevant for power management to explicitely
>> kill all connections when putting the cover on the device.

> yes, arguable choice, but it can be disabled.

Not on my 770, for sure...


> 770 wasn't explicitly sold as always-on and therefore connectivity got
> killed by default. UI and marketing choices 

"arguable"? Good choice, I think he was somehow implying.


> Sorry if we have undermined your mental landmarks, but you just have to
> adjust to the always-on concept. That's the fashion of the day.

I see you're looking for flames: great, bring 'em on! ;-)

I do appreciate your post about kernel timers, polling, and app developer
responsibilities, and heartily hope you're being sarcastic here. Put
another way, who gives a [] about the fashion of the day?


> Yes, we gave up the shrink division and hired more developers :-D
> No, unfortunately that's only my wild dream.

Good thing the programmers are *not* running the asylum. ;-P


-- 
Nicola Larosa - http://www.tekNico.net/

In the developed world, we do not have a shortage of IPv4 addresses at
this time. [...] In the developing world the situation is already dire.
In some places, entire universities are hidden behind a single routable
IPv4 address, and in others, NAT's are as much as 5 levels deep.
 -- Jim Gettys, June 2006

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RE: [maemo-users] Battery Benchmarking?

[Amit.Kucheria]

>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ext Simon Budig
>>Sent: 10 January, 2007 13:16
>>To: maemo-users@maemo.org
>>Subject: Re: [maemo-users] Battery Benchmarking?
>>
>>I believe Nokia is missing a psychological factor here. Putting the
>>cover on the 770 allows the user to forget about it. He finished using
>>it and it is kind of stored away safely, it won't distract him.
>>
>>The N800 has no equivalent. When you stop using it, its screen stays
>>lighted for a while - "wasn't there something else you wanted 
>to use me
>>for?", it still demands a certain amount of attention. Then 
>it switches
>>the light off at some point - if it is lying around in your vincinity
>>this is another visible intrusion that you'll notice even from the
>>corner of your eyes. Plus it - at least the prototype I've 
>seen - keeps
>>blinking the blue LED in the cursor pad. Not sure what this 
>is supposed
>>to indicate. Active Network connection? "not really switched off"?
>
>I am afraid that _IS_ the product concept of "ALWAYS ON". Of course you
>don't have to be always ON, but it requires changing the default
>settings. Do the following:

And to attempt to defend the concept of Always ON, think about the
general populace - tech savvy enough to use VoIP, but not geek enough to
understand/care about what goes into making it work. They would not
understand why they can't receive their VoIP calls on Gtalk, Skype, etc.
_all_ the time. After all it works on PCs.

/Amit
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[maemo-users] N800: RS-MMC and mini-SD

[Laurent GUERBY]

Hi,

Will the N800 read RS-MMC (those used by the N770)?

Thanks in advance,

Laurent
http://guerby.org/blog/

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RE: [maemo-users] Battery Benchmarking?

[Amit.Kucheria]

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ext Simon Budig
>Sent: 10 January, 2007 13:16
>To: maemo-users@maemo.org
>Subject: Re: [maemo-users] Battery Benchmarking?
>
>I believe Nokia is missing a psychological factor here. Putting the
>cover on the 770 allows the user to forget about it. He finished using
>it and it is kind of stored away safely, it won't distract him.
>
>The N800 has no equivalent. When you stop using it, its screen stays
>lighted for a while - "wasn't there something else you wanted to use me
>for?", it still demands a certain amount of attention. Then it switches
>the light off at some point - if it is lying around in your vincinity
>this is another visible intrusion that you'll notice even from the
>corner of your eyes. Plus it - at least the prototype I've seen - keeps
>blinking the blue LED in the cursor pad. Not sure what this is supposed
>to indicate. Active Network connection? "not really switched off"?

I am afraid that _IS_ the product concept of "ALWAYS ON". Of course you
don't have to be always ON, but it requires changing the default
settings. Do the following:

In Connection Manager -> Tools -> Connectivity Settings -> General:

- Connect automatically: WLAN connections
- Search interval: Never

Idle times tab:
- WLAN idle time: 5 minutes

This will ensure that for known APs you are connected automatically and
when you are idle, it is automatically disconnected. Also, by setting
search interval to NEVER, you ensure that WLAN isn't trying to look for
known APs all the time.

In Display Settings, uncheck "Show LED lights" to turn off the blinking
LEDs

(I can feel the eyes of marketing and product concepting people boring a
hole into my back.)

Regards,
Amit
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[maemo-users] Re: Battery Benchmarking?

[Nicola Larosa]

Simon Budig wrote:
> I believe Nokia is missing a psychological factor here. Putting the
> cover on the 770 allows the user to forget about it. He finished using
> it and it is kind of stored away safely, it won't distract him.

That's exactly how I feel about it.


> The N800 has no equivalent. When you stop using it, its screen stays
> lighted for a while - "wasn't there something else you wanted to use me
> for?", it still demands a certain amount of attention. Then it switches
> the light off at some point - if it is lying around in your vincinity
> this is another visible intrusion that you'll notice even from the
> corner of your eyes. Plus it - at least the prototype I've seen - keeps
> blinking the blue LED in the cursor pad. Not sure what this is supposed
> to indicate. Active Network connection? "not really switched off"?

It does? Oh gosh, that's awful. I hereby predict that it will be soon
disabled, somehow. ;-)


> I am aware that Bluetooth&Wlan power management is very good and that
> it probably is not that relevant for power management to explicitely
> kill all connections when putting the cover on the device.
> 
> However it sometimes is convenient to have the Wlan and Bluetooth
> connections cut off when you explicitely put the cover on the 770.
> Putting the cover on the 770 then gives the reassuring feeling of
> "nobody can mess with it remotely, there certainly is no pending stuff
> running there".

That's another nice touch, in these days of diminishing privacy, and gives
the best of both worlds.

You want to keep it connected? Just leave it alone, and after a while the
screen blanks, while connections stay up.

You want to put it to sleep, away from world concerns? Just slide the cover on.

Very simple, very functional. It feels good.


> I guess the only option to do this on the N800 is the
> flight mode, which of course requires actively reenabling this stuff
> when you want to use it again. Certainly not as smoothely integrated
> with the workflow as with the 770.
> 
> At least these are my thoughts regarding the cover issue - it is a
> psychological thing and I am a bit sad that Nokia apparently abandoned
> this concept.

The 770 cover also has an important protecting role: it is solid, and
always at hand, thanks to the very well thought out "sliding on the back"
mechanism. The auto-switch off when on the front, no button press needed,
is a very nice touch.

I'm sad that it has been dropped from the new model.


-- 
Nicola Larosa - http://www.tekNico.net/

In the developed world, we do not have a shortage of IPv4 addresses at
this time. [...] In the developing world the situation is already dire.
In some places, entire universities are hidden behind a single routable
IPv4 address, and in others, NAT's are as much as 5 levels deep.
 -- Jim Gettys, June 2006

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Re: [maemo-users] Battery Benchmarking?

[Igor Stoppa]

Hi,
On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 12:15 +0100, ext Simon Budig wrote:
> Igor Stoppa ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> [snipped helpful description of power saving]
> > Also because N800 doesn't have a cover, but certainly that doesn't
> > prevent us to do the very same power saving that was already available
> > on 770. :-D
> > 
> > The cover would just be the cause for an _immediate_ rather than timed
> > screen blanking.
> 
> I believe Nokia is missing a psychological factor here. Putting the
> cover on the 770 allows the user to forget about it. He finished using
> it and it is kind of stored away safely, it won't distract him.
> 
> The N800 has no equivalent. When you stop using it, its screen stays
> lighted for a while - "wasn't there something else you wanted to use me
> for?", it still demands a certain amount of attention. Then it switches
> the light off at some point - if it is lying around in your vincinity
> this is another visible intrusion that you'll notice even from the
> corner of your eyes. Plus it - at least the prototype I've seen - keeps
> blinking the blue LED in the cursor pad. Not sure what this is supposed
> to indicate. Active Network connection? "not really switched off"?

No, the LED is off by default and the power-savvy user will wisely keep
it off and even switch it off if it gets accidentally enabled.
If you are more interested into running your device for longer time than
having that disco effect, keep it off.

The LED is meant to tell you, at basic level, "I'm alive even if the
screen is blank". Plus some other things like "You have email/You have
missed calls".

> I am aware that Bluetooth&Wlan power management is very good and that
> it probably is not that relevant for power management to explicitely
> kill all connections when putting the cover on the device.

yes, arguable choice, but it can be disabled. 770 wasn't explicitly sold
as always-on and therefore connectivity got killed by default.
UI and marketing choices 

> However it sometimes is convenient to have the Wlan and Bluetooth
> connections cut off when you explicitely put the cover on the 770.
> Putting the cover on the 770 then gives the reassuring feeling of
> "nobody can mess with it remotely, there certainly is no pending stuff
> running there". I guess the only option to do this on the N800 is the
> flight mode, which of course requires actively reenabling this stuff
> when you want to use it again. Certainly not as smoothely integrated
> with the workflow as with the 770.

Sorry if we have undermined your mental landmarks, but you just have to
adjust to the always-on concept. That's the fashion of the day.

> At least these are my thoughts regarding the cover issue - it is a
> psychological thing and I am a bit sad that Nokia apparently abandoned
> this concept.

Yes, we gave up the shrink division and hired more developers :-D
No, unfortunately that's only my wild dream.


-- 
Cheers, Igor

Igor Stoppa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
(Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland)
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RE: [maemo-users] Battery Benchmarking?

[Jakub.Pavelek]

>At least these are my thoughts regarding the cover issue - it 
>is a psychological thing and I am a bit sad that Nokia 
>apparently abandoned this concept.

Yep. N800 is "always connected" device, unless you go turn it off ;)

--jakub
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Re: [maemo-users] Battery Benchmarking?

[Simon Budig]

Igor Stoppa ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
[snipped helpful description of power saving]
> Also because N800 doesn't have a cover, but certainly that doesn't
> prevent us to do the very same power saving that was already available
> on 770. :-D
> 
> The cover would just be the cause for an _immediate_ rather than timed
> screen blanking.

I believe Nokia is missing a psychological factor here. Putting the
cover on the 770 allows the user to forget about it. He finished using
it and it is kind of stored away safely, it won't distract him.

The N800 has no equivalent. When you stop using it, its screen stays
lighted for a while - "wasn't there something else you wanted to use me
for?", it still demands a certain amount of attention. Then it switches
the light off at some point - if it is lying around in your vincinity
this is another visible intrusion that you'll notice even from the
corner of your eyes. Plus it - at least the prototype I've seen - keeps
blinking the blue LED in the cursor pad. Not sure what this is supposed
to indicate. Active Network connection? "not really switched off"?

I am aware that Bluetooth&Wlan power management is very good and that
it probably is not that relevant for power management to explicitely
kill all connections when putting the cover on the device.

However it sometimes is convenient to have the Wlan and Bluetooth
connections cut off when you explicitely put the cover on the 770.
Putting the cover on the 770 then gives the reassuring feeling of
"nobody can mess with it remotely, there certainly is no pending stuff
running there". I guess the only option to do this on the N800 is the
flight mode, which of course requires actively reenabling this stuff
when you want to use it again. Certainly not as smoothely integrated
with the workflow as with the 770.

At least these are my thoughts regarding the cover issue - it is a
psychological thing and I am a bit sad that Nokia apparently abandoned
this concept.

Bye,
Simon

-- 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://simon.budig.de/
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Re: [maemo-users] Battery Benchmarking?

[Igor Stoppa]

Hi Tim!

On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 19:07 +0100, ext Tim Teulings wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> > the apps you have installed are buggy and generate activity
> > and i mean any type of activity, 1% CPU load is still too much:
> > if the app is idle, it must have 0% CPU activity
> 
> What does that exactly mean (especially for non GTK-based applications
> like mine that cannot expect some GTK magic)?
First of all my deepest and most sincere thanks for this question.
So maybe for once it won't look like i just rant against application
developers.

> Say for example I have an editor with has a blinking cursor. The GUI
> library internally uses select with a timer as main event loop. Does
> above statement mean, that my application is still running and select
> still lopping and timer can run out and the cursor still blinks while I
> put the cover on the device?

Let's take the editor example and see it throughthe whole sw stack.

*First of all the timer you are using from userspace is mapped to a
queue in the kernel, which in turns uses a hw timer.

*The kernel has _NON_ periodic system tick timer, meaning that system
ticks are skipped when there is no activity scheduled.

(So that means that if nothing perturbs the state of the system, it
won't wake up, even if the cover is not present and you are looking at a
static image of the text in your editor.
As a matter of fact it does wake up every now and then, but the number
of times can be approximated with 0, when compared to a system where
there is a interrupt every tick.)

*select will be (hopefully) implemented in a sane way that doesn't busy
loop, but rather relies again on asynchronous events (notification from
the kernel that the timer has expired) and therefore the library code
shouldn't generate unnecessary activity.

*finally the editor application: personally i consider blinking cursors
to be evil, however putting aside personal feelings, in general it makes
sense to do screen updates only when they are visible. So if the cover
is on, what good is to update the blinking cursor? Same applies to cover
off (open) but screen blanked. Again nobody will enjoy your nice
blinking effect but that will cause the processor to periodically wake
up. Certainly not for long, but if I may quote Depeche Mode,
 "Everything Counts in a Large Amount"

> I always assumed that it goes in some kind
> of hibernate mode where machine state is (nearly) completely frozen,
Yes and no:
-yes because it does go to hw specific power saving states
-no because it is transparent to sw (well, most of it and certainly user
space stuff) and if the sw doesn't keep quiet, the power saving state
won't be reached. (Actually there are significant differencies between
omap1710 and omap2420, with the latter having finer granularity of what
hw blocks can sleep and how.)

> but
> your statement sounds like it just switches of some stuff of while CPU
> is still running?

I consider the "OFF" button on your everyday PDA just smoke in the eyes.
Many people have compleined for the absence of a hybernate
functionality.
They have not understood that we are already doing it dynamically. All
the time, at _runtime_, not just when the user presses the "OFF" button.

Of course it takes more effort, but that's the way to go, since modern
mobile processors would have ridiculous use-times if they were running
constantly at full power.
Or the size of the battery would become incredibly large.

> How can I work around this?
*Don't do unnecessary stuff
*Don't poll
*Don't busyloop
*Check system state (by listening for events, again, never poll)
*Keep updates at minimum
*Do updates only if your application is visible, otherwise completely
stop updating the UI till you become again king of the hill

> Do I need to catch DBus events to get
> informed that I have to go in some application specific low power mode?

Yes, screen blanked should be enough.
Also because N800 doesn't have a cover, but certainly that doesn't
prevent us to do the very same power saving that was already available
on 770. :-D

The cover would just be the cause for an _immediate_ rather than timed
screen blanking.

-- 
Cheers, Igor

Igor Stoppa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
(Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland)
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[maemo-users] Tool to get the Storage IDs of Certificates

[Oliver Pahl]

Hi, i am new to the List.

My Name is Oliver and i am the proud owner of a N770 since last week.
Now I have a question :) or more asking for a favor. In my school we
connect to our network through a certificate. The Problem is, it is no
user certificate and so i cant access it with the network manager GUI.
The idea was to find out the storage id of the right cert and use it to
substitute with the sid of the user cert in the gconf file. Do you think
it would be possible? And if so, could someone write a tool to find out
the storage ids? I already filed it as a bug, but there was no activitie
on that bug till midst of December, so you are my last hope :)

Thanks a lot and greetz

Oli
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[maemo-users] gpe-mini-browser for maemo

[Jorge Salamero Sanz]

hi all,

i've packaged gpe-mini-browser for maemo.

you can find the packages in http://bencer.cauterized.net/nokia770/

*warning*: there are very very dirty and quick packages. this weekend i'll 
have much cleaner and well done packages in a repository.

i'll try to make fresh packages from gpe svn often.

enjoy!
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Re: [maemo-users] ITOS 2007

[Mdecandia]

- Original Message 
Da: James Sparenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: maemo-users@maemo.org 
Oggetto: Re: [maemo-users] ITOS 2007
Data: 10/01/07 00:26

> 
> 
> 
> On Monday 08 January 2007 03:49, Peter Robinson wrote:
> > > Peter Robinson wrote:
> > > > Its the Maemo 3.0 "Bora" release. Nokia has made no mention of
whether
> > > > the 770 will be updated to run IT-2007. I can only say I hope so.
> > > > Details on Bora here http://www.maemo.org/downloads/releases.html
> > > >
> > > > Peter
> > > >
> > > > On 1/8/07, Laurent MARTIN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >> Hi!
> > > >> I've just browsed nseries.com/n800 to know more about the N800. It
is
> > > >> announced with ITOS 2007 in it: is this new release already
available
> > > >> and will be work with our "old" 770?
> > > >> Any information on this?
> > >
> > > On the maemo.org website there's a note stating that the OS2007 CANNOT
> > > be flashed on the 770 :(
> >
> > Yes, but that is that firmware. I would expect the firmware's for each
> > device to be different due to different requirements for things like
> > kernel builds, drivers etc but that doesn't mean that they can't build
> > a IT-2007 release for the 770, the question that remains is whether
> > they will and that is something that needs to come from Nokia.
> >
> > Peter
> 
> Unfortunately it looks like I have a less than 90 day old 770 that is
about to 
> be abandoned OS wise If I'm reading correctly.  Let the buyer be ware.  
> bummer.
> 
> James
>

My 770 has 2 weeks and I'm going to have a device with no more support. I'm
very disappointed.

Michele De Candia


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Re: [maemo-users] The difference between ARM and ARMEL packages

[Michael Stepanov]

On 1/9/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 Hi,

you will need to rebuild those packages for IT-2006 (this should then work
on IT-2007 too). ARMEL means a different binary ABI, the ARM software will
not work on IT-2006/7. Changing package structure will not help, get it
rebuilt under Maemo SDK.



Yes, I got it. So, I already started to build packages for ARMEL. Thanks.

Br,


--jakub



 --
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *ext Michael Stepanov
*Sent:* 09 January, 2007 10:01
*To:* maemo-users@maemo.org
*Subject:* [maemo-users] The difference between ARM and ARMEL packages

Hi list,

I try to use Nokia770 as control panel for home automation system
Plutohome (plutohome.com). There is a one, big problem. Some needed
packages are missed. For example, mysqlclient12 or libxmu6. I adopted those
ARM Debian packages for OS 2005 just by changing their structure. It works
fine on real device. But I cannot find appropriate packages  for OS 2006.
Because the architecture was changed from ARM to ARMEL.
Can somebody tell me, please, is there some significant difference between
ARM and ARMEL or it may be possible just change ARM package structure
according to rules for ARMEL?

Thanks in advance.

--
Cheers,
Michael





--
Cheers,
Michael
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