Re: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.18 internal documentation suggestions
On Thu, 2014-05-01 at 22:09 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: So it seems clear to me that we're *adding* the From: address to Reply-To: and the only question is how does first_strip_reply_to affect this, and the answer is if it's Yes, the Reply-To: we're adding to was stripped and is empty, and if No we're adding to the original. Do I have to repeat that last bit further down? I hadn't considered that a Reply-To: address can be plural, which makes perfect sense. A single sentence, perhaps just a reference to other text, covering first_strip_reply_to = No might be in order to pair with your explicit discussion of first_strip_reply_to = Yes. The whole issue is complex, and the measures in Mailman to address it are similarly complex. Your changes to the internal docs are certainly an improvement and probably about as good as can be done with a bad situation. There may be a problem with being _too_ wordy in explaining it. Here's a suggestion: first_strip_reply_to = Yes will remove all the incoming Reply-To: addresses but will still add the poster's address to Reply-To: for all three settings of reply_goes_to_list which respectively will result in just the poster's address, the poster's address and the list posting address or the poster's address and the explicit reply_to_address in the outgoing Reply-To: header. If first_strip_reply_to = No the poster's address in the From: header, if not already included in the Reply-To:, will be appended to any existing Reply-To: address(es). Last sentence added. Is this correct, and reasonable? -- Lindsay Haisley | Everything works if you let it FMP Computer Services | 512-259-1190 | --- The Roadie http://www.fmp.com| -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] accessing relay mailman server from its own network
On Thu, May 01, 2014 at 05:19:35PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: On 05/01/2014 11:31 AM, Anne Wainwright wrote: I still have dyndns addresses showing on the numeric/alpha address listing both locally and from outside I do not understand the numeric/alpha address listing I was not clear there, I meant the 0-9, A-Z tabular listing of members under Membership Management / Membership List. Where specifically do you see these? I have changed DEFAULT_URL_HOST in mm_cfg.py appropriately, cleared the browser caches. Where can this be dyndns be hiding, or is it time to run the fix_url script? Probably. See the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9. That is a clear exposition of the issue, I will go that route. many thanks Anne -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/anotheranne%40fables.co.za -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.18 internal documentation suggestions
Andrew Partan writes: Do you have a setting to change From: user@domain to From: user@domain.INVALID - that is the hack I would like to use. Seems reasonable, but for the reason Mark gave and because it makes personal replies a little bit harder, I *personally* would tend to avoid it, and I recommend being careful to observe what's happening if you try it (watch logs, listen for user complaints, etc). -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] DMARC From munging: Keep original sender
Hi, On 05/01/2014 08:05 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: On 05/01/2014 07:54 AM, Ralf Jung wrote: I just noticed that stripping reply-to headers was enabled on the list in question, and that this is not the default (as I originally thought it was - I wasn't the one who initially set up these lists). Stripping happens after From munging, so this explains my issue. After disabling stripping, the original sender remains in the Reply-To. I *think* it works as you expect in 2.1.18rc3, but I'll have to double check. In 2.1.18rc3 with first_strip_reply_to = Yes and reply_goes_to_list = Poster, the poster's From: address is in Reply-To:, but not for the other settings of reply_goes_to_list. I'm changing it for the final so the poster's From: address will always be in Reply-To: when from_is list is other than No. Cool, thanks. Kind regards Ralf -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.18 internal documentation suggestions
Mark Sapiro writes: On 05/01/2014 09:33 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Mark Sapiro writes: The transformations for anonymous_list are applied before any of these actions, so if actions other than No are applied on an anonymous list, they will apply to the anonymized message. This may be confusing? How about ... if actions other than No are applied on an anonymous list, they will be redundant. You already said that above, so it won't hurt to say it here too. But what I'm worried about (which was not clear, sorry!) is that if somebody *does* turn one of these options on, the behavior they observe will be confusing. Ie, I wonder if It is probably *not* useful to apply these options to an anonymous list, and if you do need to do so, the result may be surprising. isn't the most accurate statement of affairs. Steve -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.18 internal documentation suggestions
(Despite the subject line, this follows up a digression by correcting some mistaken information about an e-mail attack on AOL.) On 5/2/2014 12:33 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: BTW, that blog [http://onlinegroups.net/blog/2014/05/01/dmarc-taking-responsibility-sending-group-email/] also says The attackers succeeded in accessing about 20% of AOL users’ email accounts and obtaining details of their contacts. I hope that means that AOL is now down to the 100 Stupidest On-Line Americans, of whom 20 were fooled But I digress. What it actually means is that onlinegroups.net miscopied the percentage from the AOL blog! The figure given by AOL is 2%. (Discovered because I'm a compulsive looker-up of sources) -- Larry Kuenning la...@qhpress.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Which file are Mailman's webpages build from?
I am running Mailman version 2.1.12. I have not been able to find a list of pages where the different HTML templates are used. Having copied the HTML-templates, listed below, from /usr/lib/mailman/templates/da/ to /usr/lib/mailman/templates/site/da/ I would like to change the design of the web-pages. So far I am doing good a few templates, but I am not able to locate on which pages the second list of files are used Also some of the web-pages gets there information from various spurces such as the template-files, the messages file etc. Is there an overview of which files different pages are build from? admlogin.html listinfo.html emptyarchive.html private.html admindbdetails.html subscribe.html roster.html options.html headfoot.html article.html archtocnombox.html archtoc.html archtocentry.html archliststart.html archidxhead.html archidxfoot.html admindbsummary.html admindbpreamble.html Med venlig hilsen Henrik Rasmussen Systemadministrator, Core Services KØBENHAVNS UNIVERSITET Koncern-it, Drift Support Nørregade 10, postboks 2177 1017 København K Tel: 35322626 Dir 35322704 Fax 35322707 Email: h...@adm.ku.dkmailto:h...@adm.ku.dk Web: it.ku.dkhttp://it.ku.dk/ [KU_logo] Spørgsmål af både faglig og teknisk karakter skal indrapporteres i KUnet's selvbetjeningssystem: KUnet -- Selvbetjening -- It-service -- Min Servicedesk -- Opret Sag eller via mail til it-serv...@adm.ku.dkmailto:it-serv...@adm.ku.dk. KUnet's selvbetjening findes på http://sd.ku.dkblocked::http://sd.ku.dk/. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Which file are Mailman's webpages build from?
On 05/02/2014 04:59 AM, Henrik Rasmussen wrote: Is there an overview of which files different pages are build from? No. Some are built almost entirely from templates. Some are built entirely dynamically with no template, and some are a combination. Only the source code knows for sure. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.18 internal documentation suggestions
On Thu, 01 May 2014 at 22:52:27 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: Do you have a setting to change From: user@domain to From: user@domain.INVALID - that is the hack I would like to use. No, not currently. It is an interesting idea, but it may cause issues in delivery of mail From: a non-existent domain. None of the current options to try to work around the DMARC breakage work well; all fail in various ways. Until people figure out real ways of making DMARC work with forwrders mailing lists (see ietf-...@ietf.org for one place discussions are going on), I think it useful to have more work-around hacks out there so that people can experiment with them to see which ones more-or-less work in different situations. Andrew Partan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Issue approving subscription requests
On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 5:05 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: The script never worked to approve (un)subscriptions. Sorry about that. It's fixed now. get the version with # Copyright (C) 1998-2014 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. from http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_requests or http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/list_requests, and it will work. That worked, thanks! -MSK -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Ignore DMARC bounces?
Is there some way of ignoring the DMCAC bounces? That way a message From: some...@yahoo.com will not not increase the bounce count of all Yahoo, AOL, Hotmail, ATT, MSN, and Comcast users. Yahoo ATT say this: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html AOL says this: 521 5.2.1 : (DMARC) This message failed DMARC Evaluation and is being refused due to provided DMARC Policy Comcast says this: 550 5.2.0 x4fx1n03n5DGQ1A034fysP Message rejected due to DMARC. Please see http://postmaster.comcast.net/smtp-error-codes.php#DM01 MSN/Hotmail say this: 550 5.7.0 (BAY0-MCn-Fn) Unfortunately, messages from (N.N.N.N) on behalf of (yahoo.com) could not be delivered due to domain owner policy restrictions.) Andrew Partan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Ignore DMARC bounces?
On Fri, 2014-05-02 at 20:21 -0400, Andrew Partan wrote: Is there some way of ignoring the DMCAC bounces? That way a message From: some...@yahoo.com will not not increase the bounce count of all Yahoo, AOL, Hotmail, ATT, MSN, and Comcast users. Yahoo ATT say this: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html AOL says this: 521 5.2.1 : (DMARC) This message failed DMARC Evaluation and is being refused due to provided DMARC Policy Comcast says this: 550 5.2.0 x4fx1n03n5DGQ1A034fysP Message rejected due to DMARC. Please see http://postmaster.comcast.net/smtp-error-codes.php#DM01 MSN/Hotmail say this: 550 5.7.0 (BAY0-MCn-Fn) Unfortunately, messages from (N.N.N.N) on behalf of (yahoo.com) could not be delivered due to domain owner policy restrictions.) Set bounce_processing to No. This will turn off all bounce processing. To the best of my knowledge, Mailman has no way to tell the difference between bounces caused by DMARC and those caused by other factors, such as user unknown. -- Lindsay Haisley | Everything works if you let it FMP Computer Services | 512-259-1190 | --- The Roadie http://www.fmp.com| -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.18 internal documentation suggestions
On 05/01/2014 11:29 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote: There may be a problem with being _too_ wordy in explaining it. Yes, and I may have gone there ;) Here is the current entire thing. The changes are a few more words in the Munge From and Wrap Message descriptions; adding the If first_strip_reply_to = No sentence to the first_strip_reply_to = Yes and changing the second sentence in the anonymous list paragraph. from_is_list (general): Replace the From: header address with the list's posting address to mitigate issues stemming from the original From: domain's DMARC or similar policies. Several protocols now in wide use attempt to ensure that use of the domain in the author's address (ie, in the From: header field) is authorized by that domain. These protocols may be incompatible with common list features such as footers, causing participating email services to bounce list traffic merely because of the address in the From: field. This has resulted in members being unsubscribed despite being perfectly able to receive mail. The following actions are applied to all list messages when selected here. To apply these actions only to messages where the domain in the From: header is determined to use such a protocol, see the dmarc_moderation_action settings under Privacy options... - Sender filters. Settings: No Do nothing special. This is appropriate for anonymous lists. It is appropriate for dedicated announcement lists, unless the From: address of authorized posters might be in a domain with a DMARC or similar policy. It is also appropriate if you choose to use dmarc_moderation_action other than Accept for this list. Munge From This action replaces the poster's address in the From: header with the list's posting address and adds the poster's address to the addresses in the original Reply-To: header. Wrap Message Just wrap the message in an outer message with the From: header containing the list's posting address and with the original From: address added to the addresses in the original Reply-To: header and with Content-Type: message/rfc822. This is effectively a one message MIME format digest. The transformations for anonymous_list are applied before any of these actions. It is not useful to apply actions other than No to an anonymous list, and if you do so, the result may be surprising. The Reply-To: header munging actions below interact with these actions as follows: first_strip_reply_to = Yes will remove all the incoming Reply-To: addresses but will still add the poster's address to Reply-To: for all three settings of reply_goes_to_list which respectively will result in just the poster's address, the poster's address and the list posting address or the poster's address and the explicit reply_to_address in the outgoing Reply-To: header. If first_strip_reply_to = No the poster's address in the original From: header, if not already included in the Reply-To:, will be added to any existing Reply-To: address(es). These actions, whether selected here or via dmarc_moderation_action, do not apply to messages in digests or archives or sent to usenet via the Mail-News gateways. If dmarc_moderation_action applies to this message with an action other than Accept, that action rather than this is applied -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Ignore DMARC bounces?
On 05/02/2014 05:21 PM, Andrew Partan wrote: Is there some way of ignoring the DMCAC bounces? That way a message From: some...@yahoo.com will not not increase the bounce count of all Yahoo, AOL, Hotmail, ATT, MSN, and Comcast users. It's difficult. If The local MTA is refused and reports directly to Mailman at SMTP time, Mailman will only see the SMTP status, e.g. 554, 521, or 550 in your examples. It is not possible to distinguish DMARC from other failures just by this 5xx status. More likely, the local MTA accepted the message from Mailman and is now delivering a DSN. If every MTA delivered an RFC 3464 compliant DSN with an RFC 1893 extended status code, one could just ignore 5.7.x bounces, but even your example services don't all use a 5.7.x code even though the RFC is clear that that is the code for security or policy rejection. Then there is the fact that many real world MTAs report in their own way and don't necessarily provide enough information to tell what the reason is. Take a look at Mailman/Bouncers/* to get an idea of what you'd be up against. Yahoo ATT say this: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html AOL says this: 521 5.2.1 : (DMARC) This message failed DMARC Evaluation and is being refused due to provided DMARC Policy Comcast says this: 550 5.2.0 x4fx1n03n5DGQ1A034fysP Message rejected due to DMARC. Please see http://postmaster.comcast.net/smtp-error-codes.php#DM01 MSN/Hotmail say this: 550 5.7.0 (BAY0-MCn-Fn) Unfortunately, messages from (N.N.N.N) on behalf of (yahoo.com) could not be delivered due to domain owner policy restrictions.) -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
