Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
Barry S. Finkel writes: > On 7/14/2014 8:43 PM, Peter Shute wrote: > > Would grey listing show up in the headers? We haven't installed > > grey listing here, but who know what our anti spam does. If it's > > using it then it certainly isn't using it consistently. I can't > > see anything in the Exchange Message Tracking logs that shows > > anything unusual as they come in. They simply arrive late. It might, depending on the receiving software. My system shows this: X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (mx.example.org [10.0.0.1]); Mon, 14 Jul 2014 21:57:46 -0400 (EDT) > > These are the top two headers from a delayed message. Does this > > tell me anything other than it was received by the server > > upstream of mine 21 minutes before it was received by mine? Not that I can see. > > If so then the delay could be before that upstream server sent it > > on, or while it waited for my server to accept it. Yes. > > If it tried several times, would that be shown in the headers? Normally, no. > The server26 machine accepted the mail from localhost at 18:50:48 . > The NUWVICMS2 machine accepted the mail from server26 at 09:11:01 > The time difference is 9:12 + 11:01 = 20:12. Twenty minutes seems > a long time for greylisting. Why? My host will continue to refuse mail for 15 minutes before autowhitelisting, but most mail gets delayed for 2-4 hours depending on the retry cycle of the sending machine (the host doesn't get a lot of mail from most sites). > You would have to look at the mail logs from the NUWVICMS2 machine > to see what it was doing from 08:50 until 09:11 (GMT+1000) to know > why the mail was delayed. Also, the logs on the server16 machine > would probably tell if server26 tried an earlier connection to the > NUWVICMS2 machine. This should also appear in the NUWVICMS2 machine logs if it was greylisting. Steve -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch again.
On 7/11/14 6:26 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: On 07/10/2014 11:13 AM, Bill Christensen wrote: The setup: Moving from Mac OS 10.8.5 to 10.9.4, on a MAMP setup, everything installed using MacPorts. Upgrading MySQL, PHP, and PostgreSQL in the process. MacPorts hasn't upgraded Mailman beyond 2.1.13 (a separate issue I may want to address later). Right now I'm doing test runs on a backup to make sure all the pieces and parts will work properly when I do the update for real. I have all the other parts in place but I'm now getting the dreaded group mismatch error from Mailman. When I first installed everything I installed Mailman before PostgreSQL, and the feedback told me that I needed either to compile Mailman as --with-mail-gid=postgresql or change the mail server (standard Mac installation of Postfix) to run as group _mailman. I uninstalled and reinstalled Mailman and now it's telling me that I need to compile Mailman as --with-mail-gid=staff. I changed the setting in MacPorts' file from --with-mail-gid=_mailman to --with-mail-gid=staff and attempted to reinstall, but I'm getting an error that it's "Unable to open port - invalid command name '--with-mail-gid=staff'". Anyone have any ideas of where to go from here? This is really an Apple issue, at least the way you're going about it. Have you asked Apple? However, you say you (only) changed --with-mail-gid=_mailman to --with-mail-gid=staff, and whereas the install worked with --with-mail-gid=_mailman, after the change it complains "invalid command name '--with-mail-gid=staff'". I really know nothing about the OS X server Mailman or even where you made that change, but in 'standard' Mailman that would be an option to configure and configure would never make that exact complaint. Are you sure you didn't introduce an extraneous newline or similar that would cause --with-mail-gid=staff to be interpreted as a command rather than an option to a prior command? Figured it out. It was syntax problems: First, I had added a comment as a note to myself within the configure_args block, so that if I needed to revert I'd have the exact line. I should have known not to put it in the block. After I moved the comment to before the block, I left the comment with a trailing "\", as that was at the end of the original line. Unfortunately, that threw things off also. Removing the "\" got the installation working correctly and it's now up and running. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
Thanks for that, Mark. I've discovered one possible reason - we're low on space on our Exchange server, which caused it to process external incoming mail erratically. The free space limit before delays on our old server was 1GB, the new one is higher than I expected at 2.7GB (I never knew it was a percentage of total disk space). This doesn't explain though why SOME external mail (including most but not all from this list) was coming in quickly though. Might just be a coincidence. We've cleared some space, so I'll know if this was the problem when the next list message arrives. Peter Shute > -Original Message- > From: Mailman-Users > [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org...@python.org] > On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro > Sent: Tuesday, 15 July 2014 12:59 PM > To: mailman-users@python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times > > On 07/14/2014 06:55 PM, Barry S. Finkel wrote: > > > On 7/14/2014 8:43 PM, Peter Shute wrote: > >> Would grey listing show up in the headers? We haven't > installed grey > >> listing here, but who know what our anti spam does. > > > Greylisting may or may not show in headers depending on the > software doing it. For example, Postgrey adds a header like > > X-Greylist: delayed 427 seconds by postgrey-1.34 at > sbh16.songbird.com; Sat, 12 Jul 2014 18:14:34 PDT > > > >> If it's using it > >> then it certainly isn't using it consistently. I can't see > anything > >> in the Exchange Message Tracking logs that shows anything > unusual as > >> they come in. They simply arrive late. > > > See below. > > > >> I dumped from Outlook the last few weeeks of send and > received times > >> for stuff I've received from this list. Some of the delays will be > >> moderation time, but I can see that the number of messages delayed > >> longer than a few minutes increased greatly on 11/7/14, but that > >> there is still the occasional one that comes though within > a minute. > > > This could be due to greylisting. Intelligent greylisting > keeps track of sending servers, and after a server has > successfully retried a small number of messages, there is no > point in further greylisting that server because the server > is known to retry. > > > >> These are the top two headers from a delayed message. Does > this tell > >> me anything other than it was received by the server > upstream of mine > >> 21 minutes before it was received by mine? If so then the > delay could > >> be before that upstream server sent it on, or while it > waited for my > >> server to accept it. If it tried several times, would that > be shown > >> in the headers? > > > You are correct, the delay was in transmission from the > upstream server to your exchange server. The headers tell you > nothing more than that. > > However, in this case, if greylisting is involved, it is your > exchange server doing it and there should be evidence in the > exchange server's logs of the initial connect and temporary > reject at about the time the upstream server received the > message and initially tried to relay it. > > Of course, there can be other reasons such as network issues > why the sending server's initial sending attempt failed, and > these may not be logged in your server. You'd have to see the > logs of the sending server to know what happened and why in > these cases. > > ... > > Twenty minutes seems > > a long time for greylisting. > > > There are two times involved in greylisting. The first is the > recipient > (greylisting) servers "early retry" time, i.e. the time > before which the server says this retry is too soon. That is > typically short, on the order of 5 minutes. > > The second is the delay before the sending server retries. > This depends on the retry strategy of the sending server and > can easily exceed 20 minutes. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: > http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%4 0nuw.org.au > -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
On 07/14/2014 06:55 PM, Barry S. Finkel wrote: > On 7/14/2014 8:43 PM, Peter Shute wrote: >> Would grey listing show up in the headers? We haven't installed grey >> listing here, but who know what our anti spam does. Greylisting may or may not show in headers depending on the software doing it. For example, Postgrey adds a header like X-Greylist: delayed 427 seconds by postgrey-1.34 at sbh16.songbird.com; Sat, 12 Jul 2014 18:14:34 PDT >> If it's using it >> then it certainly isn't using it consistently. I can't see anything in >> the Exchange Message Tracking logs that shows anything unusual as they >> come in. They simply arrive late. See below. >> I dumped from Outlook the last few weeeks of send and received times >> for stuff I've received from this list. Some of the delays will be >> moderation time, but I can see that the number of messages delayed >> longer than a few minutes increased greatly on 11/7/14, but that there >> is still the occasional one that comes though within a minute. This could be due to greylisting. Intelligent greylisting keeps track of sending servers, and after a server has successfully retried a small number of messages, there is no point in further greylisting that server because the server is known to retry. >> These are the top two headers from a delayed message. Does this tell >> me anything other than it was received by the server upstream of mine >> 21 minutes before it was received by mine? If so then the delay could >> be before that upstream server sent it on, or while it waited for my >> server to accept it. If it tried several times, would that be shown in >> the headers? You are correct, the delay was in transmission from the upstream server to your exchange server. The headers tell you nothing more than that. However, in this case, if greylisting is involved, it is your exchange server doing it and there should be evidence in the exchange server's logs of the initial connect and temporary reject at about the time the upstream server received the message and initially tried to relay it. Of course, there can be other reasons such as network issues why the sending server's initial sending attempt failed, and these may not be logged in your server. You'd have to see the logs of the sending server to know what happened and why in these cases. ... > Twenty minutes seems > a long time for greylisting. There are two times involved in greylisting. The first is the recipient (greylisting) servers "early retry" time, i.e. the time before which the server says this retry is too soon. That is typically short, on the order of 5 minutes. The second is the delay before the sending server retries. This depends on the retry strategy of the sending server and can easily exceed 20 minutes. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
>> -Original Message- >> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:m...@msapiro.net] >> Sent: Monday, 14 July 2014 10:55 PM >> To: Peter Shute; GNU mailman users >> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times >> >> On July 14, 2014 4:29:16 AM PDT, Peter Shute >> wrote: >>> >>> Can I assume this has nothing to do with mailman? >> >> >> Look at the Received: headers in the received message to >> determine where the delay is. >> >> Could grey listing be involved? >> >> >> >> -- >> Mark Sapiro >> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. [Unpaid endorsement] On 7/14/2014 8:43 PM, Peter Shute wrote: Would grey listing show up in the headers? We haven't installed grey listing here, but who know what our anti spam does. If it's using it then it certainly isn't using it consistently. I can't see anything in the Exchange Message Tracking logs that shows anything unusual as they come in. They simply arrive late. I dumped from Outlook the last few weeeks of send and received times for stuff I've received from this list. Some of the delays will be moderation time, but I can see that the number of messages delayed longer than a few minutes increased greatly on 11/7/14, but that there is still the occasional one that comes though within a minute. These are the top two headers from a delayed message. Does this tell me anything other than it was received by the server upstream of mine 21 minutes before it was received by mine? If so then the delay could be before that upstream server sent it on, or while it waited for my server to accept it. If it tried several times, would that be shown in the headers? Received: from s26.web-hosting.com (192.64.112.70) by NUWVICMS2.nuw.org.au (192.168.0.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.1.436.0; Fri, 11 Jul 2014 09:11:01 +1000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37183 helo=server26.web-hosting.com) by server26.web-hosting.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1X5NAu-001sA8-Fw; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:50:48 -0400 The server26 machine accepted the mail from localhost at 18:50:48 . The NUWVICMS2 machine accepted the mail from server26 at 09:11:01 The time difference is 9:12 + 11:01 = 20:12. Twenty minutes seems a long time for greylisting. You would have to look at the mail logs from the NUWVICMS2 machine to see what it was doing from 08:50 until 09:11 (GMT+1000) to know why the mail was delayed. Also, the logs on the server16 machine would probably tell if server26 tried an earlier connection to the NUWVICMS2 machine. --Barry Finkel -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
Would grey listing show up in the headers? We haven't installed grey listing here, but who know what our anti spam does. If it's using it then it certainly isn't using it consistently. I can't see anything in the Exchange Message Tracking logs that shows anything unusual as they come in. They simply arrive late. I dumped from Outlook the last few weeeks of send and received times for stuff I've received from this list. Some of the delays will be moderation time, but I can see that the number of messages delayed longer than a few minutes increased greatly on 11/7/14, but that there is still the occasional one that comes though within a minute. These are the top two headers from a delayed message. Does this tell me anything other than it was received by the server upstream of mine 21 minutes before it was received by mine? If so then the delay could be before that upstream server sent it on, or while it waited for my server to accept it. If it tried several times, would that be shown in the headers? Received: from s26.web-hosting.com (192.64.112.70) by NUWVICMS2.nuw.org.au (192.168.0.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.1.436.0; Fri, 11 Jul 2014 09:11:01 +1000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37183 helo=server26.web-hosting.com) by server26.web-hosting.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82)(envelope-from ) id 1X5NAu-001sA8-Fw; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:50:48 -0400 > -Original Message- > From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:m...@msapiro.net] > Sent: Monday, 14 July 2014 10:55 PM > To: Peter Shute; GNU mailman users > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times > > On July 14, 2014 4:29:16 AM PDT, Peter Shute > wrote: > > > >Can I assume this has nothing to do with mailman? > > > Look at the Received: headers in the received message to > determine where the delay is. > > Could grey listing be involved? > > > > -- > Mark Sapiro > Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. [Unpaid endorsement] > -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] List owner account in Mailman3 (postorius)
Hi, How do I create a list owner account in the new Mailman3 web interface (postorius)? Regards ML -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
On July 14, 2014 4:29:16 AM PDT, Peter Shute wrote: > >Can I assume this has nothing to do with mailman? Look at the Received: headers in the received message to determine where the delay is. Could grey listing be involved? -- Mark Sapiro Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. [Unpaid endorsement] -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
Just for interest, the email below took 15 minutes to arrive back. I'm sure they normally come back way faster than that, which makes me think it's a problem with the Exchange server. But what sort of problem makes a server take longer to receive a list message than a direct message? Peter Shute Sent from my iPad > On 14 Jul 2014, at 9:44 pm, "Peter Shute" wrote: > > As a moderator of our list, I know when messages are approved, and I'm seeing > very erratic delivery times to my own address, which is on an Exchange > server. They used to come through within a minute or so, now they can take 20 > minutes or an hour. > > I subscribed my gmail address for comparison, and am finding that the same > list messages come through to it as quickly as ever. > > From those observations I would conclude that the Exchange server is having > problems receiving external mail, but I've found that test messages sent from > my gmail account to my Exchange address come through within seconds. > > Can I assume this has nothing to do with mailman? > > Peter Shute > > Sent from my iPad > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Erratic mail delivery times
As a moderator of our list, I know when messages are approved, and I'm seeing very erratic delivery times to my own address, which is on an Exchange server. They used to come through within a minute or so, now they can take 20 minutes or an hour. I subscribed my gmail address for comparison, and am finding that the same list messages come through to it as quickly as ever. >From those observations I would conclude that the Exchange server is having >problems receiving external mail, but I've found that test messages sent from >my gmail account to my Exchange address come through within seconds. Can I assume this has nothing to do with mailman? Peter Shute Sent from my iPad -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
