[Fwd: mod_eprl or PHP]
Edwin Pratomo wrote: > > Matt Sergeant wrote: > > > > On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, Denton River wrote: > > > > > HI list, > > > > > > My company is using mod_perl right now and i like it > > > alot, but now are they wanting us to start develop in > > > PHP i really like to stay mod_perl, so i am askin you > > > for some help, > > > > > > I would really like to have something to say to my > > > boss, > > > like this is why i want to use mod_perl instedd of PHP > > > so my question is "Why should i use mod_perl insted of > > > PHP. > > > > > > Denton > > > > > > ps. we are workin alot with XML. > > > > Well then mod_perl (well, Perl) has much more extensive XML support right > > now compared to PHP. I was talking to Rael Dornfest yesterday, and he's > > moving back to Perl development after developing PHP's most significant > > XML project (meerkat) because of the tools available under perl. > > Significant point. > The availability of perl programmers is decisive, too. > My company started with just two mod_perl programmers, and one php > programmer to built one HTML::Mason, and one php powered site. We > separate the content logic and the interface by writing Perl modules and > use Mason only for interface (html) generation. By that time, we thought > that it was difficult to get perl programmers while it was easier to get > a php one (in Indonesia). But the truth is that it was difficult to get > both whose skills are practical :-) > Then we welcome any non-perl programmers (whose interests in learning > perl), and trained them. It doesn't take long time to transform them > into skillful perl programmers. The result is today we have five more > mod_perl sites, while the php site is still one! > These three new perl programmers doesn't know much about mod_perl > stuffs, they just need to work on the interface (HTML::Mason stuffs) > because they can simply reuse the modules which I and my friend wrote > for the first site. > > My point here is: > Not all perl programmers need to master the complexity of mod_perl. Put > this task upon a small team which work on the back-end system, and let > others who doesn't have good knowledge on mod_perl to concentrate on the > html stuffs. Mason, or EmbPerl, or any embedded perl systems (in html) > are good choices, and their ease is comparable to php. > > Rgds, > Edwin. > > > > > -- > >
Re: mod_eprl or PHP
Its seems that people think PHP is easy to learn for HTML people. By that same token, all the embedded perl solutions are as well like Apache::ASP, Embperl, HTML::Mason, and AxKit, check out: http://perl.apache.org/#embed http://perl.apache.org/#xml --Joshua Denton River wrote: > > HI list, > > My company is using mod_perl right now and i like it > alot, but now are they wanting us to start develop in > PHP i really like to stay mod_perl, so i am askin you > for some help, > > I would really like to have something to say to my > boss, > like this is why i want to use mod_perl instedd of PHP > so my question is "Why should i use mod_perl insted of > PHP. > > Denton > > ps. we are workin alot with XML. > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/
Re: mod_eprl or PHP
On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, martin langhoff wrote: > Matt Sergeant wrote: > > > > On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > PHP does not require mod_perl. They are completely seperate (and often do not > > > like each other when loaded as DSOs). > > > > Has anyone figured out why that is yet? > > wasn't it related to conflicting mysql or dbi libraries? i've seen a > few threads that achieved some kind of success disabling PHP's mysql > libraries. > > of course, it's all overheard, so i may well be wrong Hmm... could be just that - exactly the same problem as the expat issue... -- Fastnet Software Ltd. High Performance Web Specialists Providing mod_perl, XML, Sybase and Oracle solutions Email for training and consultancy availability. http://sergeant.org | AxKit: http://axkit.org
Re: mod_eprl or PHP
On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, Erich L. Markert wrote: > Obviously not the same stuff as you ;-) > > You missed my point, even though you reiterated it in your statement... > > How can you make a valid comparison between mod_perl against PHP? You > can't because they are different beasts and serve different purposes. > That's why I said it would be more valid to compare JSP against mod_perl > - similar technologies. Actually the only similar techs to mod_perl are: mod_snake (python equivalent to mod_perl, very new though), mod_java (java equivalent, doesn't even run yet AFAIK), the Apache C API, the microsoft internet server API (ISAPI), and the netscape server API (NSAPI). There are probably a few others that I've missed, for other web servers, but that's pretty much it as far as technologies similar to mod_perl. In short: most other tecnologies are web page API's, whereas mod_perl and its kin are web server API's. A common misconception though. -- Fastnet Software Ltd. High Performance Web Specialists Providing mod_perl, XML, Sybase and Oracle solutions Email for training and consultancy availability. http://sergeant.org | AxKit: http://axkit.org
Re: mod_eprl or PHP
Matt Sergeant wrote: > > On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > PHP does not require mod_perl. They are completely seperate (and often do not > > like each other when loaded as DSOs). > > Has anyone figured out why that is yet? wasn't it related to conflicting mysql or dbi libraries? i've seen a few threads that achieved some kind of success disabling PHP's mysql libraries. of course, it's all overheard, so i may well be wrong martin
Re: mod_eprl or PHP
Mea culpa. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > PHP does not require mod_perl. They are completely seperate (and often do not > like each other when loaded as DSOs). > -- __ Mr. Erich L. Markert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computer Learning Center TEL (914)422-4328 Pace University 1 Martine Ave White Plains, New York 10606-1932 Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. -- Henry Spencer
Re: mod_eprl or PHP
Obviously not the same stuff as you ;-) You missed my point, even though you reiterated it in your statement... How can you make a valid comparison between mod_perl against PHP? You can't because they are different beasts and serve different purposes. That's why I said it would be more valid to compare JSP against mod_perl - similar technologies. Jerrad Pierce wrote: > > With all due respect, what the hell are you smoking? > PHP is an ENTIRELY different beast from perl, or mod_perl. > > http://php.net has absolutely nothing to do with Larry Wall > > > -Original Message- > > From: Erich L. Markert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 12:41 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: mod_eprl or PHP > > > > > > This is also comparing apples and oranges since PHP requires > > mod_perl... > > > > A better comparison would be HTMLEmbperl vs. PHP > > > > Or mod_perl vs. java server pages, ASP, etc... > > -- __ Mr. Erich L. Markert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computer Learning Center TEL (914)422-4328 Pace University 1 Martine Ave White Plains, New York 10606-1932 Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. -- Henry Spencer
Re: mod_eprl or PHP
The great thing about mod_perl is that you can, with just a little training in some common traps (global variables), turn a perl programmer into a mod_perl programmer. To turn someone into a PHP programmer you have to teach them the perl-like PHP syntax. PHP is popular. If you are drowning in PHP applicants, I say go for it. But since you say you are already a mod_perl shop, it sounds like you are trading in one of the most powerful apache tools in for a way to embed code in your HTML. There are MANY ways to make a PHP like mod_perl environment. HTML::Mason (www.masonhq.com), Embperl or you could just have mod_perl support PHP itself with mod_php. As Jason Bodnar noted, they do not like playing with each other as DSOs. If my perceptions are misplaced about PHP, please feel free to correct me. Thanks, JoshKoshB'Gosh
Re: mod_eprl or PHP
--On Wednesday, July 26, 2000 8:22 AM -0700 Denton River <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HI list, > > My company is using mod_perl right now and i like it > alot, but now are they wanting us to start develop in > PHP i really like to stay mod_perl, so i am askin you > for some help, > That's not a simple question, and you haven't really said what kinds of applications you're using mod-perl for. In a nutshell, mod-perl is a much more complex tool than PHP, but it also enables you to do much more complex tasks. PHP works at the Apache response phase, mod-perl gives you access to all the request phases. PHP a powerfull, but still limited tool. Mod-perl gives you full access to perl and to any and all existing perl packages (anything on CPAN or anywhere else). Both packages have their place, and I use both. If the kinds of web applications you develop clearly fit into one camp or the other, than use one or the other exclusively. But if it's a mixed bag, use the tool most appropriate to the application. Also, for basic dynamic page generation, learning and using PHP is a simpler task than learning and using mod-perl. That's real important to keep in mind when hiring developers who may have no experience with either tool -- and "OH MY!!" may not even know perl -- shutter to think. ;-). > I would really like to have something to say to my > boss, > like this is why i want to use mod_perl instedd of PHP > so my question is "Why should i use mod_perl insted of > PHP. > > Denton > > ps. we are workin alot with XML. > I'm not sure if there are XML parsers available for PHP or not. If not, that would certainly make a difference in what tool to use. > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail ? Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ -- Rob _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ /\_\_\_\_\/\_\ /\_\_\_\_\_\ /\/_/_/_/_/ /\/_/ \/_/_/_/_/_/ QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT, /\/_/__\/_/ __/\/_//\/_/ PROFUNDUM VIDITUR /\/_/_/_/_/ /\_\ /\/_//\/_/ /\/_/ \/_/ /\/_/_/\/_//\/_/ (Whatever is said in Latin \/_/ \/_/ \/_/_/_/_/ \/_/ appears profound) Rob Tanner McMinnville, Oregon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_eprl or PHP
On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > PHP does not require mod_perl. They are completely seperate (and often do not > like each other when loaded as DSOs). Has anyone figured out why that is yet? -- Fastnet Software Ltd. High Performance Web Specialists Providing mod_perl, XML, Sybase and Oracle solutions Email for training and consultancy availability. http://sergeant.org | AxKit: http://axkit.org
RE: mod_eprl or PHP
With all due respect, what the hell are you smoking? PHP is an ENTIRELY different beast from perl, or mod_perl. http://php.net has absolutely nothing to do with Larry Wall > -Original Message- > From: Erich L. Markert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 12:41 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: mod_eprl or PHP > > > This is also comparing apples and oranges since PHP requires > mod_perl... > > A better comparison would be HTMLEmbperl vs. PHP > > Or mod_perl vs. java server pages, ASP, etc... >
Re: mod_eprl or PHP
PHP does not require mod_perl. They are completely seperate (and often do not like each other when loaded as DSOs). On 26-Jul-2000 Erich L. Markert wrote: > This is also comparing apples and oranges since PHP requires mod_perl... > > A better comparison would be HTMLEmbperl vs. PHP > > Or mod_perl vs. java server pages, ASP, etc... -- Jason Bodnar + [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Team Linux Oooh ... maca-ma-damia nuts. -- Homer Simpson Bart's Dog Gets an F
Re: mod_eprl or PHP
This is also comparing apples and oranges since PHP requires mod_perl... A better comparison would be HTMLEmbperl vs. PHP Or mod_perl vs. java server pages, ASP, etc...
Re: mod_eprl or PHP
On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, Denton River wrote: > HI list, > > My company is using mod_perl right now and i like it > alot, but now are they wanting us to start develop in > PHP i really like to stay mod_perl, so i am askin you > for some help, > > I would really like to have something to say to my > boss, > like this is why i want to use mod_perl instedd of PHP > so my question is "Why should i use mod_perl insted of > PHP. > > Denton > > ps. we are workin alot with XML. Well then mod_perl (well, Perl) has much more extensive XML support right now compared to PHP. I was talking to Rael Dornfest yesterday, and he's moving back to Perl development after developing PHP's most significant XML project (meerkat) because of the tools available under perl. -- Fastnet Software Ltd. High Performance Web Specialists Providing mod_perl, XML, Sybase and Oracle solutions Email for training and consultancy availability. http://sergeant.org | AxKit: http://axkit.org
mod_eprl or PHP
HI list, My company is using mod_perl right now and i like it alot, but now are they wanting us to start develop in PHP i really like to stay mod_perl, so i am askin you for some help, I would really like to have something to say to my boss, like this is why i want to use mod_perl instedd of PHP so my question is "Why should i use mod_perl insted of PHP. Denton ps. we are workin alot with XML. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
