RE: Email Complexes
Folks, it's (long past) time to end this thread. It's operationally of interest to very few of us.
Re: Email Complexes
Hi Joe, I was wondering when this question was going to be posted, so alas. I was having an issue where email (at my company) was on occassion, for various reasons, slow (i.e. messages were getting stuck either outbound or inbound). Of course by the time this was noticed the user tickets started flying in. So what I ended up doing was writting some scripts (for linux/unix) to do a test that provides a nice little webpage showing typical transaction times for email on a roundtrip basis. One of the biggest problems was that the internal email servers are MSExchange, so theres was little control I had over that portion, other than to show how long an email took to leave my Linux system, then get received back to that system. Works well if your NOC/Helpdesk doesn't mind looking at a webpage on a periodic basis, and I suppose one could modify it to do automated paging. Contact me off list if interested, I don't wish to get to OT here. Regards -Joe Blanchard - Original Message - From: "Joe Shen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Hosman, Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 4:29 AM Subject: RE: Email Complexes > > Hi, > > Is there any free tools or methods to measure SMTP > performance and email service quality between two > email server ? > > Is there any implementation of message track? > > thanks > > Joe > > http://sg.mobile.yahoo.com
RE: Email Complexes
Hi, Is there any free tools or methods to measure SMTP performance and email service quality between two email server ? Is there any implementation of message track? thanks Joe --- "Hosman, Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I've gotten a few emails asking why we are doing > this. > > We are doing this in order to provider better > service to our Customers. > Charter need's pop3 > access at the following companies so that we can > monitor track and monitor > SMTP performance between our network and yours. > > AOL > Yahoo > Gmail > MSN/Hotmail > Cox > Comcast > Adelphia > Earthlink > Verizon > __ Do You Yahoo!? Download the latest ringtones, games, and more! http://sg.mobile.yahoo.com
Re: Email Complexes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2004-09-15, at 00.48, Joe Abley wrote: > On 14 Sep 2004, at 17:39, Hosman, Ross wrote: > >> Ensuring that email flows freely between our mail complex and other >> top mail >> provider complexes is a support issue correct. Actually setting up the >> system to monitor and to ensure the support people get the data they >> need is >> operations/engineering. > > If getting mail from your mail complex is important to remote mail > complex A then talk to remote mail complex A and arrange something. If > remote mail complex A doesn't care, or doesn't return your mail, then > maybe mail complex A doesn't think your mail complex is worth worrying > about (or perhaps you are sufficiently notable that it's worth > blocking mail from you without generating bounce complexes). > > Unless your mail complex is sufficiently big that remote mail complex > A's customers are going to care (i.e. generate support complex load > above the noise floor) I wouldn't hold my breath complex waiting for > anybody to expend effort to help you with any of this for free. > > There isn't really any solution complex you're going to magically find > from the NANOG list complex beyond the suggestion complex that has > already been put forward (that of purchasing standard retail pop3 > mailbox complexes from the other provider complexes you're interested > in, and running text complexes between them and your mail complex.) This is just way to complex for me. - - kurtis - -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 8.1 iQA/AwUBQUfrZaarNKXTPFCVEQJh+wCfVVIlMV9TNIKzz3UuzeAJuzupVSkAnjW5 KFEaZxXJ5j1y4iR/P/k8OvhW =Lg2S -END PGP SIGNATURE-
RE: Email Complexes
On Wed, 15 Sep 2004, Mark Foster wrote: > > I find it interesting that you'd like pop3 access to a bunch of listed > *webmail* providers. Who provide access via the web - NOT pop3. Quite a few of them provide pop3 access - all you have to do is to haul out your credit card and pay for a premium account gmail and hotmail dont. The rest of what you describe can be easily hacked into netsaint / nagyos etc - monitoring for mail delays is easy. Parsing the reason for why it got delayed is a whole different kettle of fish. -- srs (postmaster|suresh)@outblaze.com // gpg : EDEDEFB9 manager, outblaze.com security and antispam operations
Re: Email Complexes
On 14 Sep 2004, at 17:39, Hosman, Ross wrote: Ensuring that email flows freely between our mail complex and other top mail provider complexes is a support issue correct. Actually setting up the system to monitor and to ensure the support people get the data they need is operations/engineering. If getting mail from your mail complex is important to remote mail complex A then talk to remote mail complex A and arrange something. If remote mail complex A doesn't care, or doesn't return your mail, then maybe mail complex A doesn't think your mail complex is worth worrying about (or perhaps you are sufficiently notable that it's worth blocking mail from you without generating bounce complexes). Unless your mail complex is sufficiently big that remote mail complex A's customers are going to care (i.e. generate support complex load above the noise floor) I wouldn't hold my breath complex waiting for anybody to expend effort to help you with any of this for free. There isn't really any solution complex you're going to magically find from the NANOG list complex beyond the suggestion complex that has already been put forward (that of purchasing standard retail pop3 mailbox complexes from the other provider complexes you're interested in, and running text complexes between them and your mail complex.) Joe
RE: Email Complexes
> We like automating a lot of our procedures as our mail complex isn't > staffed > 24/7. That's not surprising. > Right now we have a script that monitors incoming mail sent from > probes across the us. It monitors how long it takes the email to first hit > the IronPort's, then how long it takes to hit the Brightmail, then how > long > it takes to hit the MTA's. Reverse the wires, the rest of the internet would appreciate it. You missed the point of my previous email. Thousands of hours are wasted by engineers dealing with abuse that is not insignificantly caused by Charter. And now "Charter" (not you, but Charter) is asking for some free accounts so they can enhance their "mail complex." You *are* Charter and netops *is* a two-way street, please act accordingly. Don't just say it isn't your department because guess what, it's all of our departments. -david David A. Ulevitch - Founder, EveryDNS.Net http://david.ulevitch.com -- http://everydns.net
RE: Email Complexes
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004, Vivien M. wrote: Personally, if it were me, running one of those major networks, I'd set him up with a free account, and then start bouncing it left and right. "Oh, we're bouncing it because of all this spam we keep getting from you. Is it your problem now?" -Dan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: September 14, 2004 5:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Email Complexes Fantastic. Call the providers, purchase an account and let's be done with this thread. I hate to state the obvious, but at least two of the providers on his list were other cable companies. Given that cable companies don't generally sell standalone POP3 service without some home/small-biz cable modem service, how exactly do you propose purchasing an account at a cable company that doesn't serve your area (I'm assuming that Charter's HQ/datacenter/etc is in a territory it, and not another company, serves...) and actually using said account? Vivien -- "No mowore webooting!!!" -Paul, 10-16-99, 10 PM Dan Mahoney Techie, Sysadmin, WebGeek Gushi on efnet/undernet IRC ICQ: 13735144 AIM: LarpGM Site: http://www.gushi.org ---
[Fwd: RE: Email Complexes]
[My first response was direct to Ross. This has been paraphrased slightly
to make it useful (hopefully) to NANOG...]
Original Message
Subject: RE: Email Complexes
Date: Wed, September 15, 2004 9:53 am
Hi Ross :)
Please don't get me wrong, I applaud your efforts, because you're right -
email is huge, and most customers don't have a reasonable expectation of
the service to be expected in terms of mail delivery between providers.
("What do you mean its not there yet! I sent it 10 minutes ago!")
My point is that by posting on NANOG saying 'give me an account please'
for the purpose of keeping *your* customers happy strikes me as, well,
interesting. You have the resources to monitor your own mail systems by
watching your outbound mail queue. Every daemon I know of has ways of
monitoring the outbound queue, and verifying that you're definately
offloading mail to advertised MX's. I noticed an example for Sendmail was
quoted on the list a short while ago.
This is stuff you can influence - its your systems. Thats where i'd
expect you to concentrate your efforts.
By extension of this, it's not unreasonable for this information to
perhaps be scripted and monitored via a web interface - nagios? - and
made available to your upper echilon support staff. Hell at one of the
ISPs I worked for - as a Tier 1 and 2 support tech - I had shell access
to one of the unix boxes and a commandline script which would tell me how
much mail was in the queue. If this remained low, I could verify there
wasnt a problem. If it spiked, then I escalated a query to the NOC to
find out what the story was.
At the ISP I work for currently we dont even have that sort of
information. If mail gets delayed we troubleshoot *without* that
information. We're an ISP with 500,000 customers and have a team of ~15
technical specialists whos expertise closes on that of a junior NOC
engineer. They successfully deal with all manner of technical queries
and they can call the NOC directly to find out if theres anything odd
going on server-side. They also clearly explain to any Tier 1's (and any
customers) they speak to that email is not a guarunteed service, and is
delayed from time to time, and theres nothing we can do except make sure
that *our systems* are working as well as possible.
Who's to say that your monitoring wont be thrown off by problems at
$third_party ? Parsing headers is a good way to identify total delivery
times, but anything beyond your own MX's is outside of your control
anyway, so outside of casual interest I see little value in actually
knowing exactly whats broken at AOL and Gmail, etc. (Isnt this AOL and
Gmails problem, not yours?)
Get queue monitoring. Script it to make the details available via the Web
to your senior tech support staff. And remind your support guys that
email is not guarunteed, and you'll do your level best to keep things
running smoothly, but that once the mail leaves the network its outside
of your control.
So once you've verified that it has infact left your network, your job is
done.
Mark.
(Disclaimer: Comments are mine and mine alone, and do not represent my
employer or any previous employer for that matter.)
> Let me see if I can explain your entire email.
>
> Ensuring that email flows freely between our mail complex and other top
> mail provider complexes is a support issue correct. Actually setting up
> the system to monitor and to ensure the support people get the data
> they need is operations/engineering.
>
> We like automating a lot of our procedures as our mail complex isn't
> staffed 24/7. Right now we have a script that monitors incoming mail
> sent from probes across the us. It monitors how long it takes the email
> to first hit the IronPort's, then how long it takes to hit the
> Brightmail, then how long it takes to hit the MTA's. Our script uses
> pop3 to grab the email and parse the headers we send from the probes
> (or in this case from the complex to the pop accounts). Yes I do
> realize some are webmail (AOL, MSN, Gmail), but even a lot of the
> webmail providers do have pop3 servers.
>
> Our intent here is not not only verify that the email got there but
> that it got there in a reasonable time (lets face it email is becoming
> a more imporant part of life/business today).
>
> As fair as teaching the support guys to go look at the mail queue,
> would you honestly want them to be doing that? We have over 65 mail
> machines and should I trust them with checking them every 10 min? Since
> we are not staffed 24/7 what happeneds if we have all gone home? The
> way we have it setup if the mail never reaches the complex tier-1 gets
> a page, 15 minutes later if the problem still isn't solved tier-2 gets
> a page. I believe automating the system rather then trutsing a staff
> member to check it and to pray that it dosen't break during the night
> is a much better way of doing it.
>
*snip*
RE: Email Complexes
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: September 14, 2004 5:47 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Email Complexes > > > > Fantastic. Call the providers, purchase an account and let's > be done with this thread. I hate to state the obvious, but at least two of the providers on his list were other cable companies. Given that cable companies don't generally sell standalone POP3 service without some home/small-biz cable modem service, how exactly do you propose purchasing an account at a cable company that doesn't serve your area (I'm assuming that Charter's HQ/datacenter/etc is in a territory it, and not another company, serves...) and actually using said account? Vivien
RE: Email Complexes
Fantastic. Call the providers, purchase an account and let's be done with this thread. -Original Message- From: Hosman, Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:40 PM To: 'Mark Foster'; Hannigan, Martin Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Email Complexes Let me see if I can explain your entire email. Ensuring that email flows freely between our mail complex and other top mail provider complexes is a support issue correct. Actually setting up the system to monitor and to ensure the support people get the data they need is operations/engineering. We like automating a lot of our procedures as our mail complex isn't staffed 24/7. Right now we have a script that monitors incoming mail sent from probes across the us. It monitors how long it takes the email to first hit the IronPort's, then how long it takes to hit the Brightmail, then how long it takes to hit the MTA's. Our script uses pop3 to grab the email and parse the headers we send from the probes (or in this case from the complex to the pop accounts). Yes I do realize some are webmail (AOL, MSN, Gmail), but even a lot of the webmail providers do have pop3 servers. Our intent here is not not only verify that the email got there but that it got there in a reasonable time (lets face it email is becoming a more imporant part of life/business today). As fair as teaching the support guys to go look at the mail queue, would you honestly want them to be doing that? We have over 65 mail machines and should I trust them with checking them every 10 min? Since we are not staffed 24/7 what happeneds if we have all gone home? The way we have it setup if the mail never reaches the complex tier-1 gets a page, 15 minutes later if the problem still isn't solved tier-2 gets a page. I believe automating the system rather then trutsing a staff member to check it and to pray that it dosen't break during the night is a much better way of doing it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mark Foster Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:04 PM To: Hannigan, Martin Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Email Complexes I find it interesting that you'd like pop3 access to a bunch of listed *webmail* providers. Who provide access via the web - NOT pop3. I also agree with the below statement - your mail queues themselves will provide far more accurate information. The issue of 'successful mail delivery' would be a support issue, not an operations issue, as long as you as an operations staffer can verify that your mailserver is not holding the mail for undue periods. (Mail doesnt have a delivery SLA in general, after all.) And if your support staff need offsite mail accounts to verify delivery delay times, they should be able to purchase them or otherwise obtain them, and keep a database of mail account access details that they can use *on demand*. This would of course entail them becoming customers and footing the regular monthly bill, or whatever. In every ISP i've ever worked for, all we've needed to do is verify that we're delivering the mail to the advertised MX in a timely fashion, and our responsibility ends at that point. Outside of the usual responsibilities of a good ISP - like providing responsive abuse/security staff, like providing a valid abuse@ contact :-) This would be one of the primary reasons your mail doesn't get accepted, and prevention is better than cure... So in all honesty - if your company wants to extend its monitoring-ability outside of its own network to those of other providers, it should do so in the 'usual fashion' - sign up. How is this something that yourself as an operations employee got involved in anyway, as it strikes me as a support issue? - Mark. On Tue, 14 Sep 2004, Hannigan, Martin wrote: > > > > Ross, > > There are a lot of knowledgeable people on this list [tier 3]. > > Why can't you already tell if you aren't getting through to major > providers? Wouldn't your queues backup, or are you being blocked and > the messages are being rejected and you are trying to track that? > > -M< > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of > Hosman, Ross > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 2:41 PM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; Roy > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Email Complexes > > > > Your right this isn't my department and it's not my place to tell them > how to do their job. If Roy would like to send me a valid abuse > complaint I'll make sure to forward it on or even walk it over to the > abuse department supervisor. > > I would also like to say I'm suprised at how many people have been attacking > me on/off the list for asking a simple question. I'm just tryi
RE: Email Complexes
Let me see if I can explain your entire email. Ensuring that email flows freely between our mail complex and other top mail provider complexes is a support issue correct. Actually setting up the system to monitor and to ensure the support people get the data they need is operations/engineering. We like automating a lot of our procedures as our mail complex isn't staffed 24/7. Right now we have a script that monitors incoming mail sent from probes across the us. It monitors how long it takes the email to first hit the IronPort's, then how long it takes to hit the Brightmail, then how long it takes to hit the MTA's. Our script uses pop3 to grab the email and parse the headers we send from the probes (or in this case from the complex to the pop accounts). Yes I do realize some are webmail (AOL, MSN, Gmail), but even a lot of the webmail providers do have pop3 servers. Our intent here is not not only verify that the email got there but that it got there in a reasonable time (lets face it email is becoming a more imporant part of life/business today). As fair as teaching the support guys to go look at the mail queue, would you honestly want them to be doing that? We have over 65 mail machines and should I trust them with checking them every 10 min? Since we are not staffed 24/7 what happeneds if we have all gone home? The way we have it setup if the mail never reaches the complex tier-1 gets a page, 15 minutes later if the problem still isn't solved tier-2 gets a page. I believe automating the system rather then trutsing a staff member to check it and to pray that it dosen't break during the night is a much better way of doing it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mark Foster Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:04 PM To: Hannigan, Martin Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Email Complexes I find it interesting that you'd like pop3 access to a bunch of listed *webmail* providers. Who provide access via the web - NOT pop3. I also agree with the below statement - your mail queues themselves will provide far more accurate information. The issue of 'successful mail delivery' would be a support issue, not an operations issue, as long as you as an operations staffer can verify that your mailserver is not holding the mail for undue periods. (Mail doesnt have a delivery SLA in general, after all.) And if your support staff need offsite mail accounts to verify delivery delay times, they should be able to purchase them or otherwise obtain them, and keep a database of mail account access details that they can use *on demand*. This would of course entail them becoming customers and footing the regular monthly bill, or whatever. In every ISP i've ever worked for, all we've needed to do is verify that we're delivering the mail to the advertised MX in a timely fashion, and our responsibility ends at that point. Outside of the usual responsibilities of a good ISP - like providing responsive abuse/security staff, like providing a valid abuse@ contact :-) This would be one of the primary reasons your mail doesn't get accepted, and prevention is better than cure... So in all honesty - if your company wants to extend its monitoring-ability outside of its own network to those of other providers, it should do so in the 'usual fashion' - sign up. How is this something that yourself as an operations employee got involved in anyway, as it strikes me as a support issue? - Mark. On Tue, 14 Sep 2004, Hannigan, Martin wrote: > > > > Ross, > > There are a lot of knowledgeable people on this list [tier 3]. > > Why can't you already tell if you aren't getting through to > major providers? Wouldn't your queues backup, or are you being > blocked and the messages are being rejected and you are trying > to track that? > > -M< > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of > Hosman, Ross > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 2:41 PM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; Roy > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Email Complexes > > > > Your right this isn't my department and it's not my place to tell them how > to do their job. If Roy would like to send me a valid abuse complaint I'll > make sure to forward it on or even walk it over to the abuse department > supervisor. > > I would also like to say I'm suprised at how many people have been attacking > me on/off the list for asking a simple question. I'm just trying to ensure > people are able to recieve/send mail from/to charter's mail complex. I > didn't think asking for some help would be a big deal (as I thought there > might be some people on the list from the companies that were knowledgeable > instead of having to deal with typical tier-1
Re: Email Complexes
> Why can't you already tell if you aren't getting through to
> major providers? Wouldn't your queues backup, or are you being
> blocked and the messages are being rejected and you are trying
> to track that?
It is all in the mail logs. Here is a quick hack to take a peak at your mail
queue (for sendmail)
& it should not be hard to get provider names that are backed up in your
queue:
#!/bin/sh
# Do the Mqueues
ls -d /var/spool/mqueue* | while read queue_name
do
total=`(cd $queue_name ; find . -name 'q*' -print | wc -l )`
deferred=`(cd $queue_name ; find . -name 'q*' -exec grep MDeferred
"{}" ";" | wc -l )`
deferred=`echo "$deferred 2 / p " | dc`
deferred_400=`(cd $queue_name ; find . -name 'q*' -exec egrep -e
'MDeferred: 4[0-9][0-9]' "{}" ";" | wc -l )`
deferred_400=`echo "$deferred_400 2 / p " | dc`
deferred_refused=`(cd $queue_name ; find . -name 'q*' -exec egrep -e
'MDeferred: Connection refused' "{}" ";" | wc -l )`
deferred_refused=`echo "$deferred_refused 2 / p " | dc`
deferred_reset=`(cd $queue_name ; find . -name 'q*' -exec egrep -e
'MDeferred: Connection reset' "{}" ";" | wc -l )`
deferred_reset=`echo "$deferred_reset 2 / p " | dc`
deferred_timeout=`(cd $queue_name ; find . -name 'q*' -exec egrep -e
'MDeferred: Connection timed out' "{}" ";" | wc -l )`
deferred_timeout=`echo "$deferred_timeout 2 / p " | dc`
echo
"===
"
echo "Stats for: $queue_name"
echo "Total messages in queue : $total"
echo "Total messages in deferred: $deferred"
echo "Total messages 400 error: $deferred_400"
echo "Total messages conn. refused: $deferred_refused"
echo "Total messages conn. reset: $deferred_reset"
echo "Total messages conn. timeout: $deferred_timeout"
echo "Total messages deferred other: `echo "$deferred_400
$deferred_refused $deferred_reset $deferred_timeout $total - - - - p" | dc`"
echo
"===
"
done
RE: Email Complexes
I find it interesting that you'd like pop3 access to a bunch of listed *webmail* providers. Who provide access via the web - NOT pop3. I also agree with the below statement - your mail queues themselves will provide far more accurate information. The issue of 'successful mail delivery' would be a support issue, not an operations issue, as long as you as an operations staffer can verify that your mailserver is not holding the mail for undue periods. (Mail doesnt have a delivery SLA in general, after all.) And if your support staff need offsite mail accounts to verify delivery delay times, they should be able to purchase them or otherwise obtain them, and keep a database of mail account access details that they can use *on demand*. This would of course entail them becoming customers and footing the regular monthly bill, or whatever. In every ISP i've ever worked for, all we've needed to do is verify that we're delivering the mail to the advertised MX in a timely fashion, and our responsibility ends at that point. Outside of the usual responsibilities of a good ISP - like providing responsive abuse/security staff, like providing a valid abuse@ contact :-) This would be one of the primary reasons your mail doesn't get accepted, and prevention is better than cure... So in all honesty - if your company wants to extend its monitoring-ability outside of its own network to those of other providers, it should do so in the 'usual fashion' - sign up. How is this something that yourself as an operations employee got involved in anyway, as it strikes me as a support issue? - Mark. On Tue, 14 Sep 2004, Hannigan, Martin wrote: > > > > Ross, > > There are a lot of knowledgeable people on this list [tier 3]. > > Why can't you already tell if you aren't getting through to > major providers? Wouldn't your queues backup, or are you being > blocked and the messages are being rejected and you are trying > to track that? > > -M< > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of > Hosman, Ross > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 2:41 PM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; Roy > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Email Complexes > > > > Your right this isn't my department and it's not my place to tell them how > to do their job. If Roy would like to send me a valid abuse complaint I'll > make sure to forward it on or even walk it over to the abuse department > supervisor. > > I would also like to say I'm suprised at how many people have been attacking > me on/off the list for asking a simple question. I'm just trying to ensure > people are able to recieve/send mail from/to charter's mail complex. I > didn't think asking for some help would be a big deal (as I thought there > might be some people on the list from the companies that were knowledgeable > instead of having to deal with typical tier-1 support). > > -Original Message- > From: Paul Bradford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 1:31 PM > To: Roy > Cc: Hosman, Ross; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Email Complexes > > > Come on... what is this Ross doesn't have the ability to put more > "clueful" people in abuse, he's prolly an engineer like you and me > we just want to fix the network why take this e-mail as a chance to > bash Charter? > > Ease up, > Paul > > On Tue, 2004-09-14 at 14:01, Roy wrote: > > I suggest you concentrate some resources in your abuse department. One > > charter IP address hit my firewall 1617 times so far today. Repeated > > complaints to [EMAIL PROTECTED] just get ignored. > > > > According to the local newspaper, my fellow citizens consider Charter the > > worst company in town. > > > > Roy >
RE: Email Complexes
Ross, There are a lot of knowledgeable people on this list [tier 3]. Why can't you already tell if you aren't getting through to major providers? Wouldn't your queues backup, or are you being blocked and the messages are being rejected and you are trying to track that? -M< -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Hosman, Ross Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 2:41 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; Roy Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Email Complexes Your right this isn't my department and it's not my place to tell them how to do their job. If Roy would like to send me a valid abuse complaint I'll make sure to forward it on or even walk it over to the abuse department supervisor. I would also like to say I'm suprised at how many people have been attacking me on/off the list for asking a simple question. I'm just trying to ensure people are able to recieve/send mail from/to charter's mail complex. I didn't think asking for some help would be a big deal (as I thought there might be some people on the list from the companies that were knowledgeable instead of having to deal with typical tier-1 support). -Original Message- From: Paul Bradford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 1:31 PM To: Roy Cc: Hosman, Ross; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Email Complexes Come on... what is this Ross doesn't have the ability to put more "clueful" people in abuse, he's prolly an engineer like you and me we just want to fix the network why take this e-mail as a chance to bash Charter? Ease up, Paul On Tue, 2004-09-14 at 14:01, Roy wrote: > I suggest you concentrate some resources in your abuse department. One > charter IP address hit my firewall 1617 times so far today. Repeated > complaints to [EMAIL PROTECTED] just get ignored. > > According to the local newspaper, my fellow citizens consider Charter the > worst company in town. > > Roy
RE: Email Complexes
As I stated before I do not handle abuse issues, it is not my position nor my department. There is no expense as I'm trying to do the job I'm paid for. As I think I have shown I'm willing to help with anyway I can, but I'm still going to do *my* job. -Original Message- From: David A. Ulevitch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 3:10 PM To: Hosman, Ross; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Email Complexes > > Your right this isn't my department and it's not my place to tell them how > to do their job. If Roy would like to send me a valid abuse complaint I'll > make sure to forward it on or even walk it over to the abuse department > supervisor. > > I would also like to say I'm suprised at how many people have been > attacking > me on/off the list for asking a simple question. 1) You are posting with your employers email address and thus opened yourself up as a conduit to "the man" at Charter. If you didn't want that, you could do what many people do and post via a vanity address. 2) Perhaps you could take all these complaints as a way of saying "maybe instead of making sure charter can email all these other networks I should make sure charter CANT email all these other networks." :) It's always good to monitor and optimize but not at the expense of dealing with outstanding support/abuse issues. -david David A. Ulevitch - Founder, EveryDNS.Net http://david.ulevitch.com -- http://everydns.net
RE: Email Complexes
> > Your right this isn't my department and it's not my place to tell them how > to do their job. If Roy would like to send me a valid abuse complaint I'll > make sure to forward it on or even walk it over to the abuse department > supervisor. > > I would also like to say I'm suprised at how many people have been > attacking > me on/off the list for asking a simple question. 1) You are posting with your employers email address and thus opened yourself up as a conduit to "the man" at Charter. If you didn't want that, you could do what many people do and post via a vanity address. 2) Perhaps you could take all these complaints as a way of saying "maybe instead of making sure charter can email all these other networks I should make sure charter CANT email all these other networks." :) It's always good to monitor and optimize but not at the expense of dealing with outstanding support/abuse issues. -david David A. Ulevitch - Founder, EveryDNS.Net http://david.ulevitch.com -- http://everydns.net
RE: Email Complexes
Your right this isn't my department and it's not my place to tell them how to do their job. If Roy would like to send me a valid abuse complaint I'll make sure to forward it on or even walk it over to the abuse department supervisor. I would also like to say I'm suprised at how many people have been attacking me on/off the list for asking a simple question. I'm just trying to ensure people are able to recieve/send mail from/to charter's mail complex. I didn't think asking for some help would be a big deal (as I thought there might be some people on the list from the companies that were knowledgeable instead of having to deal with typical tier-1 support). -Original Message- From: Paul Bradford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 1:31 PM To: Roy Cc: Hosman, Ross; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Email Complexes Come on... what is this Ross doesn't have the ability to put more "clueful" people in abuse, he's prolly an engineer like you and me we just want to fix the network why take this e-mail as a chance to bash Charter? Ease up, Paul On Tue, 2004-09-14 at 14:01, Roy wrote: > I suggest you concentrate some resources in your abuse department. One > charter IP address hit my firewall 1617 times so far today. Repeated > complaints to [EMAIL PROTECTED] just get ignored. > > According to the local newspaper, my fellow citizens consider Charter the > worst company in town. > > Roy
RE: Email Complexes
Come on... what is this Ross doesn't have the ability to put more "clueful" people in abuse, he's prolly an engineer like you and me we just want to fix the network why take this e-mail as a chance to bash Charter? Ease up, Paul On Tue, 2004-09-14 at 14:01, Roy wrote: > I suggest you concentrate some resources in your abuse department. One > charter IP address hit my firewall 1617 times so far today. Repeated > complaints to [EMAIL PROTECTED] just get ignored. > > According to the local newspaper, my fellow citizens consider Charter the > worst company in town. > > Roy
RE: Email Complexes
I suggest you concentrate some resources in your abuse department. One charter IP address hit my firewall 1617 times so far today. Repeated complaints to [EMAIL PROTECTED] just get ignored. According to the local newspaper, my fellow citizens consider Charter the worst company in town. Roy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:24 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: Email Complexes Let me calrify, I work as a HSD Administrator for Charter Communications in their mail, news, web group. We want these accounts so that we can ensure email is going to the other complexes without a hitch. We would also monitor how long it would take email to go from our complex to the respective company's complex. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:18 AM To: Hosman, Ross Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: Re: Email Complexes On Tue, Sep 14, 2004 at 09:08:21AM -0500, Hosman, Ross wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone knew people at the following companies: > > AOL > Yahoo > Gmail > MSN/Hotmail > Cox > Comcast > Adelphia > Earthlink > Verizon i think most everyone knows someone at one or more of these companies. > > We would like accounts setup at these companies to monitor outgoing > email to > these complexes. If you know/are someone at one of these companies > could you > please contact me off list. accounts from each of these companies is easy to get. one does not need special privledges here, just the money to pay for the regular account fees. > > Ross Hosman > HSD Administrator > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 314-543-5823
RE: Email Complexes
With all due respect, call these organizations as a customer and request an account. With that being said, might I suggest a far better method: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/msgtrk-charter.html Regards, Jade -Original Message- From: Hosman, Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:51 AM To: Hosman, Ross; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: Email Complexes I've gotten a few emails asking why we are doing this. We are doing this in order to provider better service to our Customers. Charter need's pop3 access at the following companies so that we can monitor track and monitor SMTP performance between our network and yours. AOL Yahoo Gmail MSN/Hotmail Cox Comcast Adelphia Earthlink Verizon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:24 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: Email Complexes Let me calrify, I work as a HSD Administrator for Charter Communications in their mail, news, web group. We want these accounts so that we can ensure email is going to the other complexes without a hitch. We would also monitor how long it would take email to go from our complex to the respective company's complex. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:18 AM To: Hosman, Ross Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: Re: Email Complexes On Tue, Sep 14, 2004 at 09:08:21AM -0500, Hosman, Ross wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone knew people at the following companies: > > AOL > Yahoo > Gmail > MSN/Hotmail > Cox > Comcast > Adelphia > Earthlink > Verizon i think most everyone knows someone at one or more of these companies. > > We would like accounts setup at these companies to monitor outgoing > email to > these complexes. If you know/are someone at one of these companies > could you > please contact me off list. accounts from each of these companies is easy to get. one does not need special privledges here, just the money to pay for the regular account fees. > > Ross Hosman > HSD Administrator > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 314-543-5823
RE: Email Complexes
I've gotten a few emails asking why we are doing this. We are doing this in order to provider better service to our Customers. Charter need's pop3 access at the following companies so that we can monitor track and monitor SMTP performance between our network and yours. AOL Yahoo Gmail MSN/Hotmail Cox Comcast Adelphia Earthlink Verizon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:24 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: Email Complexes Let me calrify, I work as a HSD Administrator for Charter Communications in their mail, news, web group. We want these accounts so that we can ensure email is going to the other complexes without a hitch. We would also monitor how long it would take email to go from our complex to the respective company's complex. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:18 AM To: Hosman, Ross Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: Re: Email Complexes On Tue, Sep 14, 2004 at 09:08:21AM -0500, Hosman, Ross wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone knew people at the following companies: > > AOL > Yahoo > Gmail > MSN/Hotmail > Cox > Comcast > Adelphia > Earthlink > Verizon i think most everyone knows someone at one or more of these companies. > > We would like accounts setup at these companies to monitor outgoing email to > these complexes. If you know/are someone at one of these companies could you > please contact me off list. accounts from each of these companies is easy to get. one does not need special privledges here, just the money to pay for the regular account fees. > > Ross Hosman > HSD Administrator > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 314-543-5823
Re: Email Complexes
On Tue, Sep 14, 2004 at 09:08:21AM -0500, Hosman, Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote a message of 22 lines which said: > We would like accounts setup at these companies to monitor outgoing > email to these complexes. May be it would be simpler to suggest them to implement Message Tracking? (http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/msgtrk-charter.html)It would scale better than asking for accounts.
RE: Email Complexes
Let me calrify, I work as a HSD Administrator for Charter Communications in their mail, news, web group. We want these accounts so that we can ensure email is going to the other complexes without a hitch. We would also monitor how long it would take email to go from our complex to the respective company's complex. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:18 AM To: Hosman, Ross Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: Re: Email Complexes On Tue, Sep 14, 2004 at 09:08:21AM -0500, Hosman, Ross wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone knew people at the following companies: > > AOL > Yahoo > Gmail > MSN/Hotmail > Cox > Comcast > Adelphia > Earthlink > Verizon i think most everyone knows someone at one or more of these companies. > > We would like accounts setup at these companies to monitor outgoing email to > these complexes. If you know/are someone at one of these companies could you > please contact me off list. accounts from each of these companies is easy to get. one does not need special privledges here, just the money to pay for the regular account fees. > > Ross Hosman > HSD Administrator > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 314-543-5823
Re: Email Complexes
On Tue, Sep 14, 2004 at 09:08:21AM -0500, Hosman, Ross wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone knew people at the following companies: > > AOL > Yahoo > Gmail > MSN/Hotmail > Cox > Comcast > Adelphia > Earthlink > Verizon i think most everyone knows someone at one or more of these companies. > > We would like accounts setup at these companies to monitor outgoing email to > these complexes. If you know/are someone at one of these companies could you > please contact me off list. accounts from each of these companies is easy to get. one does not need special privledges here, just the money to pay for the regular account fees. > > Ross Hosman > HSD Administrator > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 314-543-5823
