Re: SRv6 Capable NOS and Devices

[Colton Conor]

I agree that pretty much all the chipsets and asics out there today
support MPLS, but it's the vendor and NOS that decides whether to
enable it or not, or charge more for it.

Example, Junipers EX4600, QFX5100 and ACX5048 all have the same
Broadcom Trident II+ ASIC inside. One supports full MPLS features
(ACX), while the other is limited (QFX), and then the EX is even more
limited. . Only difference is what Juniper has enabled or disabled in
software to my knowledge. All 3 run JUNOS, just different flavors.

Mikrotik's MPLS stack is quite limited, but I hope that will change
soon in version 7 that was just released. Honestly hoping that
Mikrotik kicks half these vendors in the nuts with everything they are
implementing in v7 with the new linux kernel and a development team
that is 3x as large. 100G switches are coming soon from them with
Marvell ASICs

VyOS doesn't run on any ASIC based systems to my knowledge, so its
just a software router.

Extreme charges extra to enable MPLS in their SLX lineup. Ciena,
Ribbon, and others do the same.






On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 1:47 PM Mark Tinka  wrote:
>
>
>
> On 1/15/22 19:22, Colton Conor wrote:
>
> > True, but in general MPLS is more costly. It's available on limited
> > devices, from limited vendors. Infact, many of these vendors, like
> > Extreme, charge you if you want to enable MPLS features on a box.
>
> Well, I don't entirely agree.
>
> Pretty much all chips shipping now, either custom or merchant silicon,
> will support MPLS. Whether the vendor chooses to implement it in code or
> not is a whole other matter.
>
> If you need MPLS, chances are you can afford it. If you don't, then you
> don't have to worry about it.
>
> For Extreme, are you referring to before or after they picked up Brocade?
>
> There is MPLS available in a number of cheap software suites. Even
> Mikrotik provides MPLS support. Whether it works or not, I can't tell you.
>
> VyOS supports is too. Whether it works or not, I can't tell you.
>
> But I think we are long past the days of "MPLS is expensive".
>
> Mark.

Re: SRv6 Capable NOS and Devices

[Colton Conor]

True, but in general MPLS is more costly. It's available on limited
devices, from limited vendors. Infact, many of these vendors, like
Extreme, charge you if you want to enable MPLS features on a box.

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 3:11 AM Saku Ytti  wrote:
>
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2022 at 00:31, Colton Conor  wrote:
>
> > I agree it seems like MPLS is still the gold standard, but ideally I
> > would only want to have costly, MPLS devices on the edge, only where
> > needed. The core and transport devices I would love to be able to use
> > generic IPv6 enabled switches, that don't need to support LDP. Low end
> > switches from premium vendors, like Juniper's  EX2200 - EX3400 don't
> > support LDP for example.
>
> It is utter fallacy that MPLS is costly, MPLS is systematically and
> fundamentally cheaper than IPv4 (and of course IPv6 costs more than
> IPv4).
>
> However if this doesn't reflect your day-to-day reality, then you can
> always do MPLSoGRE, so that core does not need more than IP. So in no
> scenario is this narrative justification for hiding MPLS headers
> inside IP headers, which is expensive and complex, systematically and
> fundamentally.
>
> --
>   ++ytti

Re: SRv6 Capable NOS and Devices

[Colton Conor]

I agree it seems like MPLS is still the gold standard, but ideally I
would only want to have costly, MPLS devices on the edge, only where
needed. The core and transport devices I would love to be able to use
generic IPv6 enabled switches, that don't need to support LDP. Low end
switches from premium vendors, like Juniper's  EX2200 - EX3400 don't
support LDP for example.

MPLS switches are very expensive compared to enterprise switches.

On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 1:09 AM Mark Tinka  wrote:
>
>
>
> On 1/11/22 17:16, Colton Conor wrote:
>
> >   Has
> > anyone deployed this new technology?
>
> I have heard of a network in Uganda that is running it.
>
> The rest I've heard of are either in the lab, or some portions of their
> network under testing.
>
>
> > If building a greenfield regional ISP network, would SRv6 be a requirement?
>
> Nope! It's a problem looking for a problem.
>
>
> > My understanding is that because it's using IPv6 in the dataplane, not
> > all devices have to have SRv6 enabled. The in-between core devices
> > just have to support IPv6, but not necessarily support SRv6. This is
> > much different than traditional MPLS networks today where all devices
> > have to support MPLS/LDP correct?
>
> You'd be hard-pressed to find anything that will help you generate
> revenue that does not come with MPLS baked into the chip and code.
>
> Do you want to take the chance of where and when SRv6 may or may not be
> needed?
>
> SRv6 is Cisco trying to create a market for a problem that does not
> exist. In the process, all other vendors are forced to waste tons of
> money and time to stay in the game, when they could be fixing real
> problems and adding real value.
>
> Don't fall for the trap. Vote with your wallet, and feet. We did.
>
> Mark.

SRv6 Capable NOS and Devices

[Colton Conor]

I know the SRv6 is a fairly new technology. I am wondering which
vendors and network operating systems fully support SRv6 today? Has
anyone deployed this new technology?

If building a greenfield regional ISP network, would SRv6 be a requirement?

My understanding is that because it's using IPv6 in the dataplane, not
all devices have to have SRv6 enabled. The in-between core devices
just have to support IPv6, but not necessarily support SRv6. This is
much different than traditional MPLS networks today where all devices
have to support MPLS/LDP correct?

Re: PowerSwitch S4100 (S4148-ON) chipset

[Colton Conor]

What is the Broadcom Maverick chipset primarily used or designed for?
This seems like a not commonly used chip to me.

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 8:27 AM Steven Shalita via NANOG
 wrote:
>
>
>
> Dell S4148 is based on Broadcom Maverick.  S4048 is Trident2 (4048-T is 
> Trident2+) and S5248 is Trident3.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: NANOG  On Behalf 
> Of Drew Weaver
> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 6:09 AM
> To: 'nanog@nanog.org' 
> Subject: PowerSwitch S4100 (S4148-ON) chipset
>
>
>
> Hello all,
>
>
>
> I’ve been googling around trying to figure out which Broadcom silicon is in 
> the S4148-ON.
>
>
>
> I haven’t really been able to make much of a determination.
>
>
>
> Does anyone know which chipset this is? Trident 1? Trident 2? Trident 3?
>
>
>
> Thanks so much if anyone has already figured this out.
>
>
>
> -Drew
>
>

Re: 100GbE beyond 40km

[Colton Conor]

Kevin,

What do these types of boxes cost? Never heard of them, but their tech
looks neat.

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 1:54 PM Kevin Menzel via NANOG  wrote:
>
> We’ve had DCP-M boxes in service for a few years now on our +40km links, with 
> their PAM4 100Gb optics. It’s been SO easy.
>
> If I had the money, we’d throw DCP-M boxes at every link we have.
>
>
>
> -Kevin Menzel
>
>
>
> From: NANOG  On 
> Behalf Of Joe Freeman
> Sent: September 24, 2021 17:07
> To: Randy Carpenter 
> Cc: nanog 
> Subject: Re: 100GbE beyond 40km
>
>
>
> This message was sent from outside of Sheridan College. Please be careful 
> when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to requests for 
> information.
>
>
>
> Open Line Systems can get you to 80K with a 100G DWDM Optic (PAM4) -
>
>
>
> I've used a lot of SmartOptics DCP-M40 shelves for this purpose. They also 
> have transponders that allow you to go from a QSFP28 to CFP to do coherent 
> 100G out to 120Km using the DCP-M40, without a need for regen or extra amps 
> in line.
>
>
>
> The DCP-M40 is a 1RU box. It looks like a deep 40ch DWDM filter but includes 
> a VAO, EDFA amp, and a WSS I think.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 4:40 PM Randy Carpenter  wrote:
>
>
> How is everyone accomplishing 100GbE at farther than 40km distances?
>
> Juniper is saying it can't be done with anything they offer, except for a 
> single CFP-based line card that is EOL.
>
> There are QSFP "ZR" modules from third parties, but I am hesitant to try 
> those without there being an equivalent official part.
>
>
> The application is an ISP upgrading from Nx10G, where one of their fiber 
> paths is ~35km and the other is ~60km.
>
>
>
> thanks,
> -Randy

Re: 100GbE beyond 40km

[Colton Conor]

It seems that many of you are recommending the SolidOptics 1U
appliances for this application. What do those cost?

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 6:01 PM Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE
 wrote:
>
> Above 40km I like coherent systems with FEC. You can feed the juniper into a 
> pair of SolidOptics 1U appliances
>
> Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE
> 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC
> CEO
> l...@6by7.net
> "The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company in the 
> world.”
>
> FCC License KJ6FJJ
>
> Sent from my iPhone via RFC1149.
>
> On Sep 24, 2021, at 2:35 PM, Edwin Mallette  wrote:
>
> I just bite the bullet and use 3rd party optics.  It’s easier and once  you 
> make the switch, lower cost.
>
> Ed
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 25, 2021, at 12:29 AM, Joe Freeman  wrote:
>
> 
> Open Line Systems can get you to 80K with a 100G DWDM Optic (PAM4) -
>
> I've used a lot of SmartOptics DCP-M40 shelves for this purpose. They also 
> have transponders that allow you to go from a QSFP28 to CFP to do coherent 
> 100G out to 120Km using the DCP-M40, without a need for regen or extra amps 
> in line.
>
> The DCP-M40 is a 1RU box. It looks like a deep 40ch DWDM filter but includes 
> a VAO, EDFA amp, and a WSS I think.
>
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 4:40 PM Randy Carpenter  wrote:
>>
>>
>> How is everyone accomplishing 100GbE at farther than 40km distances?
>>
>> Juniper is saying it can't be done with anything they offer, except for a 
>> single CFP-based line card that is EOL.
>>
>> There are QSFP "ZR" modules from third parties, but I am hesitant to try 
>> those without there being an equivalent official part.
>>
>>
>> The application is an ISP upgrading from Nx10G, where one of their fiber 
>> paths is ~35km and the other is ~60km.
>>
>>
>>
>> thanks,
>> -Randy

Re: IPv6 woes - RFC

[Colton Conor]

300 apartments Mark. No, it's bulk internet and wifi so a single provider.

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 8:01 PM Mark Andrews  wrote:
>
> And how many apartments where covered by that single IP address? Was this
> where there is a restriction on other providers so the occupants had no
> choice of wireline ISP?
>
> > On 23 Sep 2021, at 09:38, Colton Conor  wrote:
> >
> > Where does this "You can only have about 200-300 subscribers per IPv4
> > address on a CGN." limit come from? I have seen several apartment
> > complexes run on a single static IPv4 address using a Mikrotik with
> > NAT.
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 2:49 PM Baldur Norddahl
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, 22 Sept 2021 at 16:48, Masataka Ohta 
> >>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Today, as /24 can afford hundreds of thousands of subscribers
> >>> by NAT, only very large retail ISPs need more than one
> >>> announcement for IPv4.
> >>
> >>
> >> You can only have about 200-300 subscribers per IPv4 address on a CGN. If 
> >> you try to go further than that, for example by using symmetric NAT, you 
> >> will increase the number of customers that want to get a public IPv4 of 
> >> their own. That will actually decrease the combined efficiency and cause 
> >> you to need more, not less, IPv4 addresses.
> >>
> >> Without checking our numbers, I believe we have at least 10% of the 
> >> customers that are paying for a public IPv4 to escape our CGN. This means 
> >> a /24 will only be enough for about 2500 customers maximum. The "nat 
> >> escapers" drown out the efficiency of the NAT pool.
> >>
> >> The optimization you need to do is to make the CGN as customer friendly as 
> >> possible instead of trying to squeeze the maximum customers per CGN IPv4 
> >> address.
> >>
> >> Perhaps IPv6 can lower the number of people that need to escape IPv4 nat. 
> >> If it helps just a little bit, that alone will make implementing IPv6 
> >> worth it for smaller emerging operators. Buying IPv4 has become very 
> >> expensive. Yes you can profit from selling a public IPv4 address to the 
> >> customer, but there is also the risk that the customer just goes to the 
> >> incumbent, which has old large pools of IPv4 and provides it for free.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Baldur
> >>
>
> --
> Mark Andrews, ISC
> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742  INTERNET: ma...@isc.org
>

Re: IPv6 woes - RFC

[Colton Conor]

Where does this "You can only have about 200-300 subscribers per IPv4
address on a CGN." limit come from? I have seen several apartment
complexes run on a single static IPv4 address using a Mikrotik with
NAT.

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 2:49 PM Baldur Norddahl
 wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, 22 Sept 2021 at 16:48, Masataka Ohta 
>  wrote:
>>
>> Today, as /24 can afford hundreds of thousands of subscribers
>> by NAT, only very large retail ISPs need more than one
>> announcement for IPv4.
>
>
> You can only have about 200-300 subscribers per IPv4 address on a CGN. If you 
> try to go further than that, for example by using symmetric NAT, you will 
> increase the number of customers that want to get a public IPv4 of their own. 
> That will actually decrease the combined efficiency and cause you to need 
> more, not less, IPv4 addresses.
>
> Without checking our numbers, I believe we have at least 10% of the customers 
> that are paying for a public IPv4 to escape our CGN. This means a /24 will 
> only be enough for about 2500 customers maximum. The "nat escapers" drown out 
> the efficiency of the NAT pool.
>
> The optimization you need to do is to make the CGN as customer friendly as 
> possible instead of trying to squeeze the maximum customers per CGN IPv4 
> address.
>
> Perhaps IPv6 can lower the number of people that need to escape IPv4 nat. If 
> it helps just a little bit, that alone will make implementing IPv6 worth it 
> for smaller emerging operators. Buying IPv4 has become very expensive. Yes 
> you can profit from selling a public IPv4 address to the customer, but there 
> is also the risk that the customer just goes to the incumbent, which has old 
> large pools of IPv4 and provides it for free.
>
> Regards,
>
> Baldur
>

Re: MPLS/MEF Switches and NIDs

[Colton Conor]

Tony,

I reached out to a couple of people, and they mentioned that there is
nothing in the 7210 line that is around $1,000, which is what a Ciena 3924
costs for example. What am I missing?

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 12:14 PM Tony Wicks  wrote:

> 7210-sas-s or 7210-sas-sx is the low cost 24/48x1 4x10G option. These are
> very affordable and reliable MPLS transport devices. You’ll need to contact
> your local Nokia rep for pricing.
>
>
>
> regards
>
>
>
> *From:* Colton Conor 
> *Sent:* Thursday, 27 May 2021 5:03 am
> *To:* Tony Wicks 
> *Cc:* NANOG 
> *Subject:* Re: MPLS/MEF Switches and NIDs
>
>
>
> Tony,
>
>
>
> Thanks, I wasn't aware of this model. This would compete with the ACX710
> based on the specs (actually have a bit more ports). I guess I will have to
> reach out, but price wise where does this box come in?
>
>
>
> What is Nokia's low cost NID that has at least 4 10G ports?
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 11:49 AM Tony Wicks  wrote:
>
> The Nokia 7250-ixr-e covers exactly the port density and price range you
> are looking for. 24x1/10, 8x10/25 and 2x100G with 300G total capacity.
>
>
>
> *From:* NANOG  *On Behalf Of *Colton
> Conor
> *Sent:* Thursday, 27 May 2021 4:39 am
> *To:* NANOG 
> *Subject:* MPLS/MEF Switches and NIDs
>
>
>
>
>
> We have used Juniper's ACX line primarily, but there is a big gap in their
> product line. The ACX2200 has only two 10G ports. The next jump up from
> there is the ACX710 with 24 10G ports. They have nothing in between that
> has 4-12 10G ports. Not to mention, Juniper is very proud price wise. We
> are looking for cost efficient 10G NIDs with at least 4 10G ports on them
> and aggregation boxes with at least 12 10G ports on them with 25g/100G
> uplinks.
>
>

Re: MPLS/MEF Switches and NIDs

[Colton Conor]

Mark,

What replacement options are you looking at for the ASR920?

On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 7:52 AM Mark Tinka  wrote:

>
>
> On 6/1/21 14:37, Fabrizio Fiore Donati wrote:
>
> > you are right :)
> >
> > cisco ASR920 is a very good platform here
>
> We have started hitting its limits on IPv6 TCAM, though. And this is
> without a full feed for either IPv4 or IPv6.
>
> We are having to look for a replacement, even though it's
> reasonably-featured.
>
> Mark.
>

Re: MPLS/MEF Switches and NIDs

[Colton Conor]

Looks like a great box, but we can't use Huawei in the USA.

On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 6:42 AM Fabrizio Fiore Donati <
fabrizio.fioredon...@2bite.net> wrote:

> You can try also huawei ne8000-M1A they are full MPLS/MEF and have also a
> 16x10GE version.
>
>
>
> Il giorno mar 1 giu 2021 alle ore 06:34 Mark Tinka  ha
> scritto:
>
>>
>>
>> On 5/31/21 19:44, Adam Thompson wrote:
>>
>> But for 4x10G the MX104 is a very nice box - if you can afford it.
>>
>>
>> If you don't need a full BGP table, sure :-).
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>

Re: MPLS/MEF Switches and NIDs

[Colton Conor]

It's not 100 percent about cost, but cost is a big concern.

My minimum requirement is a box that has 4 10G ports, and supports G.8032.
MPLS / Segment routing would be nice, but not required.

So far, I have yet to find anything comparable to Ciena' 3924. It's got 4
10G SFP+, and then 4 1G SFP's. Hardware costs about $550 new, and their
mandatory base software plus the 10G licenses add about $400, bringing the
total cost to $950. Then, they have an optional MPLS / Segment Routing
advanced layer 3 feature set, costing at least another $200, bringing the
total cost to $1150.

Anyone know something close in pricing to compare to? Note this is general
Ciena pricing, nothing special.

Mikrotik has a couple of options below this $1000 price point, but that
would not work.





On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 4:03 PM Adam Thompson 
wrote:

> EXOS is a perfectly good OS that bears absolutely *no* resemblance to
> anything else you've ever used in your career.  If you start from scratch
> without training courses, you're looking at wasting 6 months (maybe more)
> just learning the OS well enough to figure out how to configure your
> desired deployment.  Then you get to the usual month or so of fine-tuning
> required that every product needs.
>
> Given how many companies will pay for training nowadays, it's a relevant
> concern IMHO.
>
> Now that I'm used to EXOS, I like it.  But I would never recommend an EXOS
> newbie start a project with a product that runs EXOS, without some
> jump-start training.  It really is/was that painful.  It's like giving a
> 100% Windows admin a UNIX box to get the new service running on, with no
> training.  (Or vice-versa.)
>
> NOTE: Extreme's goal (supposedly targeting 2021) was to ship one common
> hardware platform that could run any of their 3 OSes.  I don't know if
> they're achieved it, but generally speaking, for any EXOS box, there's
> two more products, one running the Nortel/Avaya OS and one IronWare
> (Foundry/Broadcom), both of which are fairly "normal".
>
> -Adam
>
> *Adam Thompson*
> Consultant, Infrastructure Services
> [image: 1593169877849]
> 100 - 135 Innovation Drive
> Winnipeg, MB, R3T 6A8
> (204) 977-6824 or 1-800-430-6404 (MB only)
> athomp...@merlin.mb.ca
> www.merlin.mb.ca
>
> --
> *From:* Colton Conor 
> *Sent:* May 31, 2021 15:30
> *To:* Adam Thompson 
> *Cc:* NANOG 
> *Subject:* Re: MPLS/MEF Switches and NIDs
>
> Adam.
>
> When you say "Beware using any EXOS-based product (anything that starts
> with "X") unless you're already familiar with EXOS!" Are you saying stay
> away from this line completely, or what do you mean by this statement. I
> have heard good things about Extreme for deploying service provider G.8032
> and MPLS functions.
>
> Yes, I was aware of https://www.mef.net/certify/technology-registry/ and
> have gone through pretty much every vendor looking at their solutions.
> Extreme for example is not listed at all, so I guess they didn't want to
> pay those fees! There are quite a few Chinese vendors we can't use.
>
>
> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 12:44 PM Adam Thompson 
> wrote:
>
> Extreme has excellent MEF implementations.  I've never used their MPLS
> implementations, but it's definitely there on, I think, all their
> products.  I only have the X620 model in my network, which may or may not
> work for you.  Beware using any EXOS-based product (anything that starts
> with "X") unless you're already familiar with EXOS!  I cannot emphasise
> this enough!
> Extreme's other product lines come from Nortel/Avaya and Broadcom
> heritage, and also have good MEF implementations (and more-or-less-sane
> OSes).  They have MPLS support, but again, no experience with it.
> I can't give much advice on pricing as I get both edu & gov discounts, but
> they are competitive with Arista and Cisco when we go to RFP.
>
> Also, Juniper's MX (and maybe PTX?) families support MEF if that's a hard
> requirement.  I know *some* but not all EX switches have had both MEF and
> MPLS, too.  Beware many EX models have pretty minimalist MPLS
> implementations (e.g. no VPLS).  Agreed on their pricing, though, which is
> why I don't have any .  But for 4x10G the MX104 is a very nice box - if
> you can afford it.
>
> Lastly, have you seen https://www.mef.net/certify/technology-registry/ ?
>
> -Adam
>
> *Adam Thompson*
> Consultant, Infrastructure Services
> [image: 1593169877849]
> 100 - 135 Innovation Drive
> Winnipeg, MB, R3T 6A8
> (204) 977-6824 or 1-800-430-6404 (MB only)
> athomp...@merlin.mb.ca
> www.merlin.mb.ca
>
> --
> *From:* NANOG  on behalf
> of Colton Conor 
> *Sent:* May 26, 2021 11:39
> *To:* N

Re: MPLS/MEF Switches and NIDs

[Colton Conor]

Adam.

When you say "Beware using any EXOS-based product (anything that starts
with "X") unless you're already familiar with EXOS!" Are you saying stay
away from this line completely, or what do you mean by this statement. I
have heard good things about Extreme for deploying service provider G.8032
and MPLS functions.

Yes, I was aware of https://www.mef.net/certify/technology-registry/ and
have gone through pretty much every vendor looking at their solutions.
Extreme for example is not listed at all, so I guess they didn't want to
pay those fees! There are quite a few Chinese vendors we can't use.


On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 12:44 PM Adam Thompson 
wrote:

> Extreme has excellent MEF implementations.  I've never used their MPLS
> implementations, but it's definitely there on, I think, all their
> products.  I only have the X620 model in my network, which may or may not
> work for you.  Beware using any EXOS-based product (anything that starts
> with "X") unless you're already familiar with EXOS!  I cannot emphasise
> this enough!
> Extreme's other product lines come from Nortel/Avaya and Broadcom
> heritage, and also have good MEF implementations (and more-or-less-sane
> OSes).  They have MPLS support, but again, no experience with it.
> I can't give much advice on pricing as I get both edu & gov discounts, but
> they are competitive with Arista and Cisco when we go to RFP.
>
> Also, Juniper's MX (and maybe PTX?) families support MEF if that's a hard
> requirement.  I know *some* but not all EX switches have had both MEF and
> MPLS, too.  Beware many EX models have pretty minimalist MPLS
> implementations (e.g. no VPLS).  Agreed on their pricing, though, which is
> why I don't have any .  But for 4x10G the MX104 is a very nice box - if
> you can afford it.
>
> Lastly, have you seen https://www.mef.net/certify/technology-registry/ ?
>
> -Adam
>
> *Adam Thompson*
> Consultant, Infrastructure Services
> [image: 1593169877849]
> 100 - 135 Innovation Drive
> Winnipeg, MB, R3T 6A8
> (204) 977-6824 or 1-800-430-6404 (MB only)
> athomp...@merlin.mb.ca
> www.merlin.mb.ca
>
> --
> *From:* NANOG  on behalf
> of Colton Conor 
> *Sent:* May 26, 2021 11:39
> *To:* NANOG 
> *Subject:* MPLS/MEF Switches and NIDs
>
> For MPLS and MEF switches, I know Juniper, Cisco, and Nokia are commonly
> talked about on this list. However, I was wondering if anyone has
> evaluated other brands? We are not interested in looking at chinese based
> vendors, so ZTE and Huawei are not an option. Anyone else worth looking
> into?
>
> We have used Juniper's ACX line primarily, but there is a big gap in their
> product line. The ACX2200 has only two 10G ports. The next jump up from
> there is the ACX710 with 24 10G ports. They have nothing in between that
> has 4-12 10G ports. Not to mention, Juniper is very proud price wise. We
> are looking for cost efficient 10G NIDs with at least 4 10G ports on them
> and aggregation boxes with at least 12 10G ports on them with 25g/100G
> uplinks.
>
> Ciena seems to have multiple options available with Segment Routing, MPLS,
> and streaming telemetry support. I am probably most interested in
> what Ciena has to offer. Has anyone deployed the 3000 or 5000 product line
> of Ciena? How does it compare to Juniper? The Ciena 3924 is sub $1000 for
> example, and has 4 10G ports on it.
>
> Adva has quite a few options as well, but I don't think their routing
> stack is as strong as Ciena's.
>
> Tejas was an unknown player to me, but they seem to have a couple of
> options that fit the bill. Price wise, I have heard the run circles around
> everyone.
>
> RAD has some options, but their pricing looks much higher than Ciena.
>
> Accedian looked interesting, but it seems they don't make aggregation
> switches, only NIDs.
>
> ECI Telecom / Ribbon seems to have some options, but I have not talked to
> them.
>
> What does Nokia and Cisco have in this space, and price wise is it going
> to compare to these less known vendors?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: MPLS/MEF Switches and NIDs

[Colton Conor]

Patrick,

Yes, I would say that was quite some time ago. From my most recent quotes
from Ciena, they have version 6, version 8, and version 10 products now. I
wonder if they have improved (I would hope) over the years.

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 10:12 PM Patrick Cole  wrote:

> Colton,
>
> This was 6+ years ago, SAOS 6.14, so I don't know it might be better now.
>
> We changed to Cisco ASR920 and it was a night and day difference - we now
> have
> 90ish ASR920s in production but are migrating toward the NCS540X.
>
> Patrick
>
> Sat, May 29, 2021 at 10:13:13AM -0500, Colton Conor wrote:
>
>
> >Patrick,
> >How long ago was this, and what code were they running?
> >What do you recommend for aggregation then?
> >On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 9:17 PM Patrick Cole  wrote:
> >
> >  We ran a medium sized mpls network using ciena 3900 and 5000 series
> >  boxes on our microwave network.
> >  Nothing but problems, the mpls code was just not mature enough and
> our
> >  radio network had the boxes falling apart at the seams as storms
> rolled
> >  through.  At that time they didn't support FRR or proper CSPF so
> >  everything had to be manually engineered active standby LSPs. Not
> sure
> >  if things have changed now. These boxes have Nortel vintage and they
> >  seemed best delloyed using PBB TE as it was mature.
> >  As an NID though they are not a bad option but not in core or
> >  aggregation IMHO.
> >
> >  On 29 May 2021 08:49:51 Colton Conor 
> wrote:
> >
> >Yes, I was surprised as you that they have these routing
> features. I
> >was also surprised they had multiple boxes that compete with
> >aggregation devices like the ACX5048. The question is how good is
> >Ciena's MPLS, switching, and routing stack compared to the
> established
> >players of Juniper, Cisco, and Nokia? Ciena is no small company,
> so I
> >think they would have the resources to make it happen.
> >On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 12:32 PM  wrote:
> >
> >  Wow, ciena has the means to implement SR and MPLS services?  I
> mean
> >  they run the underlying LS IGP to signal those SIDâ**s ??  I
> >  didnâ**t know that.  I may look at them in the future then.  I
> >  thought Ciena just did some sort of static mpls-tp or
> somethingâ*¦
> >
> >
> >
> >  We use Accedian as NIDâ**s with SkyLight director for PAA (SLA
> >  stuff)â*¦and uplink those into our network at (yester-year,
> Cisco
> >  ME3600â**s and ASR9000â**s), but now, ACX5048 and MX204
> >
> >
> >
> >  -Aaron
> >
> >
>
> --
> Patrick Cole 
> Chief Engineer
> Spirit Technology Solutions
> 19-25 Raglan St, South Melbourne VIC 3205
> Desk:0385541391
> Mobile:  0410626630
>

Re: MPLS/MEF Switches and NIDs

[Colton Conor]

Patrick,

How long ago was this, and what code were they running?

What do you recommend for aggregation then?

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 9:17 PM Patrick Cole  wrote:

>
> We ran a medium sized mpls network using ciena 3900 and 5000 series boxes
> on our microwave network.
>
> Nothing but problems, the mpls code was just not mature enough and our
> radio network had the boxes falling apart at the seams as storms rolled
> through.  At that time they didn't support FRR or proper CSPF so everything
> had to be manually engineered active standby LSPs. Not sure if things have
> changed now. These boxes have Nortel vintage and they seemed best delloyed
> using PBB TE as it was mature.
>
> As an NID though they are not a bad option but not in core or aggregation
> IMHO.
>
> On 29 May 2021 08:49:51 Colton Conor  wrote:
>
>> Yes, I was surprised as you that they have these routing features. I was
>> also surprised they had multiple boxes that compete with
>> aggregation devices like the ACX5048. The question is how good is Ciena's
>> MPLS, switching, and routing stack compared to the established players of
>> Juniper, Cisco, and Nokia? Ciena is no small company, so I think they would
>> have the resources to make it happen.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 12:32 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, ciena has the means to implement SR and MPLS services?  I mean they
>>> run the underlying LS IGP to signal those SID’s ??  I didn’t know that.  I
>>> may look at them in the future then.  I thought Ciena just did some sort of
>>> static mpls-tp or something…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We use Accedian as NID’s with SkyLight director for PAA (SLA stuff)…and
>>> uplink those into our network at (yester-year, Cisco ME3600’s and
>>> ASR9000’s), but now, ACX5048 and MX204
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Aaron
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: MPLS/MEF Switches and NIDs

[Colton Conor]

Yes, I was surprised as you that they have these routing features. I was
also surprised they had multiple boxes that compete with
aggregation devices like the ACX5048. The question is how good is Ciena's
MPLS, switching, and routing stack compared to the established players of
Juniper, Cisco, and Nokia? Ciena is no small company, so I think they would
have the resources to make it happen.


On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 12:32 PM  wrote:

> Wow, ciena has the means to implement SR and MPLS services?  I mean they
> run the underlying LS IGP to signal those SID’s ??  I didn’t know that.  I
> may look at them in the future then.  I thought Ciena just did some sort of
> static mpls-tp or something…
>
>
>
> We use Accedian as NID’s with SkyLight director for PAA (SLA stuff)…and
> uplink those into our network at (yester-year, Cisco ME3600’s and
> ASR9000’s), but now, ACX5048 and MX204
>
>
>
> -Aaron
>
>
>

Re: MPLS/MEF Switches and NIDs

[Colton Conor]

I am going to have to reach out to Nokia and talk to them about their
products then. In the past when I have talked to Nokia their products have
a low upfront cost, but then they license you to death and were worse than
Cisco from what I remember.

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 8:27 AM Thomas Scott 
wrote:

> Second vote for the Nokia 7200 line, their price points are hard to beat.
> The 7250 was originally designed (per the Nokia reps I've talked to) to be
> a data center switch, but I've seen more than one MSO deploy them in the
> field to great effect. They also make fantastic satellite boxes for their
> 7750 chassis. The 7210 is definitely older, but is a fantastic little MPLS
> PE router.
>
> SRoS is also easy to pickup, considering it was written by ex-Juniper and
> Cisco employees (TiMetra/TiMos if I recall correctly?)
>
> - Thomas Scott | mr.thomas.sc...@gmail.com
>
>
> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 7:10 AM Brandon Martin 
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/26/21 12:39 PM, Colton Conor wrote:
>> > Ciena seems to have multiple options available with Segment Routing,
>> > MPLS, and streaming telemetry support. I am probably most interested
>> > in what Ciena has to offer. Has anyone deployed the 3000 or 5000
>> > product line of Ciena? How does it compare to Juniper? The Ciena 3924
>> > is sub $1000 for example, and has 4 10G ports on it.
>>
>> I've used the Ciena 3000 series switches as NIDs a fair bit and have no
>> real complaints about them aside from TAC being a bit loathe to give out
>> new versions of SAOS even when the version you've got deployed is going
>> EOL.  I've not used the MPLS functionality mostly because it's a pricey
>> software license add-on and I can get by without, but the MEF and
>> associated carrier-oriented Ethernet functionality seems to be pretty
>> much top notch in terms of feature set, stability, and configurability.
>> I mostly use the 3928 though partially because the 3924 is new enough it
>> didn't make it into my standard build-out BOM.  The 3928 does also have
>> redundant PSU (fixed, but there are two) if that matters to you.  At
>> sub-$1000, the 3924 is a good deal in comparison if it'll do what you
>> need.
>>
>> If you've never used them, you might find the config language a bit
>> annoying in that it's more Yoda syntax than Cisco, but it's also more
>> consistent than Cisco (what isn't?), so it's got that going for it.
>> Documentation is alright.  TAC is responsive to inquiries.
>>
>> --
>> Brandon Martin
>>
>>

Re: MPLS/MEF Switches and NIDs

[Colton Conor]

Tony,

Thanks, I wasn't aware of this model. This would compete with the ACX710
based on the specs (actually have a bit more ports). I guess I will have to
reach out, but price wise where does this box come in?

What is Nokia's low cost NID that has at least 4 10G ports?

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 11:49 AM Tony Wicks  wrote:

> The Nokia 7250-ixr-e covers exactly the port density and price range you
> are looking for. 24x1/10, 8x10/25 and 2x100G with 300G total capacity.
>
>
>
> *From:* NANOG  *On Behalf Of *Colton
> Conor
> *Sent:* Thursday, 27 May 2021 4:39 am
> *To:* NANOG 
> *Subject:* MPLS/MEF Switches and NIDs
>
>
>
>
>
> We have used Juniper's ACX line primarily, but there is a big gap in their
> product line. The ACX2200 has only two 10G ports. The next jump up from
> there is the ACX710 with 24 10G ports. They have nothing in between that
> has 4-12 10G ports. Not to mention, Juniper is very proud price wise. We
> are looking for cost efficient 10G NIDs with at least 4 10G ports on them
> and aggregation boxes with at least 12 10G ports on them with 25g/100G
> uplinks.
>

MPLS/MEF Switches and NIDs

[Colton Conor]

For MPLS and MEF switches, I know Juniper, Cisco, and Nokia are commonly
talked about on this list. However, I was wondering if anyone has
evaluated other brands? We are not interested in looking at chinese based
vendors, so ZTE and Huawei are not an option. Anyone else worth looking
into?

We have used Juniper's ACX line primarily, but there is a big gap in their
product line. The ACX2200 has only two 10G ports. The next jump up from
there is the ACX710 with 24 10G ports. They have nothing in between that
has 4-12 10G ports. Not to mention, Juniper is very proud price wise. We
are looking for cost efficient 10G NIDs with at least 4 10G ports on them
and aggregation boxes with at least 12 10G ports on them with 25g/100G
uplinks.

Ciena seems to have multiple options available with Segment Routing, MPLS,
and streaming telemetry support. I am probably most interested in
what Ciena has to offer. Has anyone deployed the 3000 or 5000 product line
of Ciena? How does it compare to Juniper? The Ciena 3924 is sub $1000 for
example, and has 4 10G ports on it.

Adva has quite a few options as well, but I don't think their routing stack
is as strong as Ciena's.

Tejas was an unknown player to me, but they seem to have a couple of
options that fit the bill. Price wise, I have heard the run circles around
everyone.

RAD has some options, but their pricing looks much higher than Ciena.

Accedian looked interesting, but it seems they don't make aggregation
switches, only NIDs.

ECI Telecom / Ribbon seems to have some options, but I have not talked to
them.

What does Nokia and Cisco have in this space, and price wise is it going to
compare to these less known vendors?

Re: Juniper hardware recommendation

[Colton Conor]

Looks like its replacement is the 5120 series. The question is does the
5120 have the same limitations and similar chipset?

On Sun, May 16, 2021 at 7:06 AM Jason Healy 
wrote:

> To echo Alain's comments earlier, the Juniper QFX 5100 series is stable,
> once you figure out all the shortcomings of the chipset.  We aren't doing
> anything fancy, but have certainly bumped into our share of issues that
> have no workaround because it's a limitation of the physical hardware.
> Since we're talking about counters, see if you can spot the error with IPv6
> accounting in the output from our 5100 below (about 50% of our traffic is
> v6):
>
> Transit statistics:
>  Input  bytes  :  284315487788005412457312 bps
>  Output bytes  :   39937401090441 29417528 bps
>  Input  packets: 23139192505939552 pps
>  Output packets:  8827818255110809 pps
>  IPv6 transit statistics:
>   Input  bytes  :   0
>   Output bytes  :   0
>   Input  packets:   0
>   Output packets:   0
>
>
> ;-)
>
> I believe the 5100 just announced EOL (
> https://support.juniper.net/support/eol/product/qfx_series/); I haven't
> had time to look at the replacement models to see if they behave any better.
>
> Jason

Re: link monitoring

[Colton Conor]

What NMS is everyone using to graph and alert on this data?

On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 7:49 AM Alain Hebert  wrote:

> Yes the JNP DOM MIB is what you are looking for.
>
> It also the traps for warnings and alarms thresholds you can use which
> is driven by the optic own parameters.
> ( Human Interface: show interfaces diagnostics optics  ] )
>
> TLDR:
>
> Realtime: Traps;
> Monitoring: DOM MIB;
>
> PS: I suggest you join [ juniper-...@puck.nether.net ] mailing list.
>
> -
> Alain Hebertaheb...@pubnix.net
> PubNIX Inc.
> 50 boul. St-Charles
> P.O. Box 26770 Beaconsfield, Quebec H9W 6G7
> Tel: 514-990-5911  http://www.pubnix.netFax: 514-990-9443
>
> On 4/29/21 5:32 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>
> The Junipers on both sides should have discrete SNMP OIDs that respond
> with a FEC stress value, or FEC error value. See blue highlighted part here
> about FEC. Depending on what version of JunOS you're running the MIB for it
> may or may not exist.
>
>
> https://kb.juniper.net/InfoCenter/index?page=content=KB36074=MX2008=LIST
>
> In other equipment sometimes it's found in a sub-tree of SNMP adjacent to
> optical DOM values. Once you can acquire and poll that value, set it up as
> a custom thing to graph and alert upon certain threshold values in your
> choice of NMS.
>
> Additionally signs of a failing optic may show up in some of the optical
> DOM MIB items you can poll:
> https://mibs.observium.org/mib/JUNIPER-DOM-MIB/
>
> It helps if you have some non-misbehaving similar linecards and optics
> which can be polled during custom graph/OID configuration, to establish a
> baseline 'no problem' value, which if exceeded will trigger whatever
> threshold value you set in your monitoring system.
>
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 1:40 PM Baldur Norddahl 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello
>>
>> We had a 100G link that started to misbehave and caused the customers to
>> notice bad packet loss. The optical values are just fine but we had packet
>> loss and latency. Interface shows FEC errors on one end and carrier
>> transitions on the other end. But otherwise the link would stay up and our
>> monitor system completely failed to warn about the failure. Had to find the
>> bad link by traceroute (mtr) and observe where packet loss started.
>>
>> The link was between a Juniper MX204 and Juniper ACX5448. Link length 2
>> meters using 2 km single mode SFP modules.
>>
>> What is the best practice to monitor links to avoid this scenarium? What
>> options do we have to do link monitoring? I am investigating BFD but I am
>> unsure if that would have helped the situation.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Baldur
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: cheap MPLS router recommendations

[Colton Conor]

https://www.multicominc.com/wp-content/uploads/DZS-M3000_M.pdf

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 4:08 PM Colton Conor  wrote:

> Well then Adam I would say the Dasan Zhone fits the budget. The M3000
> seems like a real beast for the price point with 100G ports.
>
> Yes, other whitebox vendors are doing this, but they seem to want 2-4k for
> the whitebox, and even more for the operating system, making it more
> expensive that Juniper from what I have seen.
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 3:27 PM  wrote:
>
>> Just to clarify what cheap means, ideally  -$2000 to $4000 new
>>
>> -new is preferred as buying used kit on second hand market one is at the
>> mercy of the price fluctuations and availability.
>>
>>
>>
>> And the likes of the M2400 looks good 4x10G plus some 1G, unfortunately
>> there are no details on the webpage (and the datasheet can’t be downloaded…
>> )
>>
>>
>>
>> Are there more folks out there bundling open NOS and white-box HW along
>> with the support for the whole thing?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> adam
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* NANOG  *On
>> Behalf Of *Colton Conor
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 19, 2020 4:51 PM
>> *To:* t...@pelican.org
>> *Cc:* NANOG 
>> *Subject:* Re: cheap MPLS router recommendations
>>
>>
>>
>> I haven't tried one myself, but Dasan Zhone has the M2400 and M3000.
>> Basically, a whitebox with IP Infusion code on it. New, I think the price
>> point is sub $2000 to $4000 new. That's a ton of ports for that price
>> point. Anyone tried these yet?
>> https://dzsi.com/product-category/mobile-xhaul/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 3:38 AM t...@pelican.org  wrote:
>>
>> On Saturday, 17 October, 2020 00:41, "Tony Wicks" 
>> said:
>>
>> > Well, there is always the MX104 (if you want redundancy) or MX80 if you
>> > don’t. That will give you 80gig wire speed just don’t load it up with
>> > more than one full table.
>>
>> Bear in mind that the MX80 is now in the EoL process, you have <4 years
>> of support left.  Depending on your expected life-time / depreciation
>> rules, buying one new right now might be unwise.
>>
>> Do *not* throw a full table at it (or any of the PowerPC Junipers) unless
>> you have a lot of patience for reconvergence, and black-holes while you
>> wait.
>>
>> MX104 is a nice box for getting dual-RE in something relatively compact
>> and cheap, and has environmental hardening if that matters to you, but is
>> still not best pleased with full tables.
>>
>> OP could do with clarifying "cheap" :)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tim.
>>
>>

Re: cheap MPLS router recommendations

[Colton Conor]

Well then Adam I would say the Dasan Zhone fits the budget. The M3000 seems
like a real beast for the price point with 100G ports.

Yes, other whitebox vendors are doing this, but they seem to want 2-4k for
the whitebox, and even more for the operating system, making it more
expensive that Juniper from what I have seen.

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 3:27 PM  wrote:

> Just to clarify what cheap means, ideally  -$2000 to $4000 new
>
> -new is preferred as buying used kit on second hand market one is at the
> mercy of the price fluctuations and availability.
>
>
>
> And the likes of the M2400 looks good 4x10G plus some 1G, unfortunately
> there are no details on the webpage (and the datasheet can’t be downloaded…
> )
>
>
>
> Are there more folks out there bundling open NOS and white-box HW along
> with the support for the whole thing?
>
>
>
>
>
> adam
>
>
>
> *From:* NANOG  *On
> Behalf Of *Colton Conor
> *Sent:* Monday, October 19, 2020 4:51 PM
> *To:* t...@pelican.org
> *Cc:* NANOG 
> *Subject:* Re: cheap MPLS router recommendations
>
>
>
> I haven't tried one myself, but Dasan Zhone has the M2400 and M3000.
> Basically, a whitebox with IP Infusion code on it. New, I think the price
> point is sub $2000 to $4000 new. That's a ton of ports for that price
> point. Anyone tried these yet?
> https://dzsi.com/product-category/mobile-xhaul/
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 3:38 AM t...@pelican.org  wrote:
>
> On Saturday, 17 October, 2020 00:41, "Tony Wicks"  said:
>
> > Well, there is always the MX104 (if you want redundancy) or MX80 if you
> > don’t. That will give you 80gig wire speed just don’t load it up with
> > more than one full table.
>
> Bear in mind that the MX80 is now in the EoL process, you have <4 years of
> support left.  Depending on your expected life-time / depreciation rules,
> buying one new right now might be unwise.
>
> Do *not* throw a full table at it (or any of the PowerPC Junipers) unless
> you have a lot of patience for reconvergence, and black-holes while you
> wait.
>
> MX104 is a nice box for getting dual-RE in something relatively compact
> and cheap, and has environmental hardening if that matters to you, but is
> still not best pleased with full tables.
>
> OP could do with clarifying "cheap" :)
>
> Regards,
> Tim.
>
>

cheap MPLS router recommendations [ID #5475871x3]

[Colton Conor]

 DO NOT EDIT BELOW THIS LINE 

Assigned to: BuyGoods Support


 
I haven't tried one myself, but 
Dasan Zhone has the M2400 and M3000. Basically, a whitebox with IP Infusion 
code on it. New, I think the price point is sub $2000 to $4000 new. That's a 
ton of ports for that price point. Anyone tried these 
yet?https://u51012.ct.sendgrid.net/ls/click?upn=EhPlf17glKOZNVwhASoWuDgg-2FgvW5A5MFuGE0qlkslKLqOw6shUYbqzlwICX1qvhfkzHQ5j5B6ePPWlfJr8YyA-3D-3DqeY6_FXQS9GGQnf2NUciIM2Uj1P5Rmzx6-2Fb1NEqYJ37Xi2EZMpF2sV5IjocGMHgSEBTdycGY8eBXFQRB-2F1-2FWbBF9yGIo44gB2w-2FofOmx02OZ4Bphq-2FH8SoN4IRlaxDduP44LEuqNk4097Rvlq3lsdsdJMAX7xM6fql6XAHEBWTpN41yhRPaSG8-2BwlsJX7OOCiAsDhn4-2FiAD-2FsmB1C3YgGS1WU1H2Ohp0bpDzg9gVYt7TtiYI6XBk6AQI22Exp2rTDpazIuj7n3y-2Byrk-2Bk19GOgKYXQA-3D-3D

On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 3:38 AM t...@pelican.org  wrote:
On Saturday, 17 October, 2020 00:41, "Tony Wicks"  said:

> Well, there is always the MX104 (if you want redundancy) or MX80 if you
> dont. That will give you 80gig wire speed just dont load it up with
> more than one full table.

Bear in mind that the MX80 is now in the EoL process, you have  
 



Team BuyGoods
===

Re: cheap MPLS router recommendations

[Colton Conor]

I haven't tried one myself, but Dasan Zhone has the M2400 and M3000.
Basically, a whitebox with IP Infusion code on it. New, I think the price
point is sub $2000 to $4000 new. That's a ton of ports for that price
point. Anyone tried these yet?
https://dzsi.com/product-category/mobile-xhaul/


On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 3:38 AM t...@pelican.org  wrote:

> On Saturday, 17 October, 2020 00:41, "Tony Wicks"  said:
>
> > Well, there is always the MX104 (if you want redundancy) or MX80 if you
> > don’t. That will give you 80gig wire speed just don’t load it up with
> > more than one full table.
>
> Bear in mind that the MX80 is now in the EoL process, you have <4 years of
> support left.  Depending on your expected life-time / depreciation rules,
> buying one new right now might be unwise.
>
> Do *not* throw a full table at it (or any of the PowerPC Junipers) unless
> you have a lot of patience for reconvergence, and black-holes while you
> wait.
>
> MX104 is a nice box for getting dual-RE in something relatively compact
> and cheap, and has environmental hardening if that matters to you, but is
> still not best pleased with full tables.
>
> OP could do with clarifying "cheap" :)
>
> Regards,
> Tim.
>
>
>

Re: Telecom billing in 2020

[Colton Conor]

Depends on what you are looking for. Do you need radius authentication?
Workforce management and scheduling? Trouble ticketing? Integrated network
monitoring?

WISPS use Sonar, Powercode, or VISP.NET
CLEC's user Rev.io, OneBill, Logisense


On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 4:02 PM Ben Cannon  wrote:

> If you had to clean-sheet a CLEC today, what would you base it on? (Must
> do telco compliant billing, CRM is a bonus) and why?
>
> Ms. Benjamin PD Cannon, ASCE
> 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC
> CEO
> b...@6by7.net
> "The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company
> in the world.”
>
> FCC License KJ6FJJ
>
>

Router Suggestions

[Colton Conor]

For around $11,000 right now, you can get a brand new Juniper MX204 router.
Alternatively, you can get a used MX240 / MX480 with quad power supplies,
redundant quad core RE's, and 2 16X10G MIC cards for around $12,000.

My question, is there anything else worth looking at in this price range /
port configuration? Open to both new and used options. Looking to take full
BGP routes.

Re: alternative to voip gateways

[Colton Conor]

"Integrated metallic testing on the combo cards helps reduce truck rolls" I
can't stress this feature enough. Being mainly a data only CLEC, we wanted
to buy the cheaper, non-combo, data only DSL cards. However, Adtran, Calix,
Zhone, and Nokia confirmed that without the SIP to FXS combo function, you
loose the  Integrated metallic testing" This means you can't test loop
length (without a dsl modem trained on the other end), can't test if you
have a cross, foreign voltage, etc. Yes, this can be done with a field
tester, but the cost of sending a tech out to do that is much more of an
expense.

DSL only data ports were around $30 a port, and combo were like $50 a port
from what I remember.



On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 8:08 PM Nick Edwards 
wrote:

> On 5/11/20, Baldur Norddahl  wrote:
> > On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 4:16 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
> >
> >> If POTS last mile is available, why complicate it with VoIP?
> >>
> >>
> > Because it is cheaper and easier? It is a lot of equipment there simply
> > does not need to be there. If you have DSL you have CPE equipment and
> that
> > CPE equipment can have FXP out for very little extra. You also save
> having
> > filters to separate DSL and voice.
> >
>
> Not really cheaper, modems with VoIP tend to be a bit more pricey so
> that 50 odd or CPE now becomes 80-100, doubling our per port cost
>
> and what is an FXP?   I think you mean FXS port.
>
>
> > In any case, even the ILEC here is dropping analog and delivering phone
> > services via VoIP and FXP out on the CPE. I believe because the
>
> wasnt there a hige shit stom in australia for their new national
> broadband network making internet ptrimary and phone secondary, a lot
> of aussies on forums I frequent bitch about its reliability, where
> even their aged copper services worked fine, not to mention prolonged
> outages due to storms and the bushfires they had recently,  lets hope
> the world learns from australias mistakes and not go down that path.
>
> >
> >
>

Re: alternative to voip gateways

[Colton Conor]

Adtran has a built in web interface too. I it slow, but it does work. I
like CLI better.

Overall, the SIP configuration is easy, and ideal for large setups. You
define a sip trunk (not system only supports 1 unfortunately) and then each
port you just add the sip username and password to that port.

On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 6:23 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> The Calix and Occam systems are web based. I find the Occam interface
> easier, but I've used it longer.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
> 
> --
> *From: *"Nick Edwards" 
> *To: *"Mike Hammett" 
> *Cc: *nanog@nanog.org
> *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 5:06:28 AM
> *Subject: *Re: alternative to voip gateways
>
> Thanks, this seems far more cost effective.
> But what about configuration, is it easy enough to configure?
>
> I'm told it must be simple to config and understand and if possible
> web based (im told because I may not always be available they want
> their basic IT staff to be able to understand and if need be make
> changes - which that alone scares me none of them understand anything
> other than windows)
>
> Thanks for all the suggestions
>
> On 5/3/20, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> > If you were to outfit them with three chassis of Calix\Occam B6-252s,
> you'd
> > be under $25k for the whole thing and get ADSL2+ speeds. You would need
> most
> > of a rack to do it.
> >
> >
> > Other platforms may or may not be more cost effective or a better
> solution.
> > Just throwing the idea out there.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> >
> > Midwest Internet Exchange
> >
> > The Brothers WISP
> >
> > - Original Message -
> >
> > From: "Nick Edwards" 
> > To: "Jeremy Austin" 
> > Cc: nanog@nanog.org
> > Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 12:21:17 AM
> > Subject: Re: alternative to voip gateways
> >
> > The huts or cabins whatever you want to call them, are right behind
> > the admin building at entrance, so first is about 300 meters and the
> > furtherest is just under 1 mile
> >
> > Cost will be an issue, Im sure I will have no problems if I have to
> > install a full rack of gateways and another full of dslams if it costs
> > 150K, over something 1/5th the size in one rack that will cost 200k -
> > since the company is not charging them for internet or voice.
> >
> > On 5/2/20, Jeremy Austin  wrote:
> >> What’s the average loop length? Grandstream is probably OK to 5+ kfeet
> but
> >>
> >> you will lose CID before that.
> >>
> >> As the low cost option don’t expect them to be trouble-free (or have
> >> particularly good vendor support), but they might work in your
> application
> >>
> >> if cheap is what makes sense.
> >>
> >> My $.02
> >>
> >> Jeremy Austin
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 10:11 PM Andrey Slastenov  >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Look at MSAN solution. Like Huawei UA5000 or similar solutions from
> other
> >>>
> >>> vendors.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Andrey
> >>>
> >>> > 2 мая 2020 г., в 07:21, Nick Edwards 
> >>> написал(а):
> >>> >
> >>> > I'm looking at a new sister company we just took over, their remote
> >>> > village has 1700 analogue phone lines to the workers huts, but they
> go
> >>> >
> >>> > nowhere past the MDF.
> >>> >
> >>> > The office runs voip, now i'm told i have to get phones to the
> workers
> >>> >
> >>> > because the  AKA previous owners of that
> >>> > business stopped the build when they ran into financial problems.
> >>> >
> >>> > So my plan is to utilize the existing many miles worth of copper
> pairs.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > I'm looking at throwing them into Versa Dslams that use pppoe pass
> >>> > through, throw in a mikoTik 1036 as pppoe server, and we got spare
> >>> > R710 i can use as radius server, and by my limited knowledge this
> >>> > works.
> >>> >
> >>> > OK data done, but... now all those pots out lines need to go
> somewhere
> >>> >
> >>> > that can handle 1700 or more lines, I am looking at either
> grandstream
> >>> >
> >>> > 48 port FXS gateways or sangoma vega 50 ports (which Ill use as 48 so
> >>> > theres a 1:1 match with dslams) the vega 3050 probably wont be used
> >>> > because they are more than twice the price of grandstream.
> >>> >
> >>> > But this all results in a sh1te load of 48 port gateways (power is
> not
> >>> >
> >>> > a concern), but wondering if there is another solution that is more
> >>> > cost effective? Seems the 

Re: alternative to voip gateways

[Colton Conor]

Agreed I would do the Adtran Total Access 5000. What you want is the
"combo" cards. They combine a SIP FXS gateway and DSL port on one port, aka
a Combo port. This would be the way to go, as it doesn't require external
splitters to combine a DSL and Voice signal as you are talking about with
two separate modules.

If cost is a concern, look at Zhone. They have carrier class gear on the
cheap.

BTW, some of these chassis can support like 1000's of lines out of 1 box.
Could do the whole village on a single rack quite easily.

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 10:09 AM Mel Beckman  wrote:

> We’ve been implementing similar DSL systems at large campgrounds for
> years. There are a huge number of high-density DSLAM solutions out there,
> and DSL CPE cost practically nothing. As you say, $25K is plenty to pay for
> the hardware, and a rack is plenty of space. The most time consuming part
> is wiring the existing POTS lines into amphenol connectors to plug into the
> DSLAM, 25 pairs at a time.
>
> In addition to Calix\Occam, Adtran‘s TotalAccess solution is worth looking
> into for their carrier-class support.
>
>  -mel beckman
>
> On May 3, 2020, at 5:09 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> 
> If you were to outfit them with three chassis of Calix\Occam B6-252s,
> you'd be under $25k for the whole thing and get ADSL2+ speeds. You would
> need most of a rack to do it.
>
> Other platforms may or may not be more cost effective or a better
> solution. Just throwing the idea out there.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
> 
> --
> *From: *"Nick Edwards" 
> *To: *"Jeremy Austin" 
> *Cc: *nanog@nanog.org
> *Sent: *Sunday, May 3, 2020 12:21:17 AM
> *Subject: *Re: alternative to voip gateways
>
> The huts or cabins whatever you want to call them,  are right behind
> the admin building at entrance, so first is about 300 meters and the
> furtherest  is just under 1 mile
>
> Cost will be an issue, Im sure I will have no problems if I have to
> install a full rack of gateways and another full of dslams if it costs
> 150K, over something 1/5th the size in one rack that will cost 200k -
> since the company is not charging them for internet or voice.
>
> On 5/2/20, Jeremy Austin  wrote:
> > What’s the average loop length? Grandstream is probably OK to 5+ kfeet
> but
> > you will lose CID before that.
> >
> > As the low cost option don’t expect them to be trouble-free (or have
> > particularly good vendor support), but they might work in your
> application
> > if cheap is what makes sense.
> >
> > My $.02
> >
> > Jeremy Austin
> >
> > On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 10:11 PM Andrey Slastenov 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Look at MSAN solution. Like Huawei UA5000 or similar solutions from
> other
> >> vendors.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Andrey
> >>
> >> > 2 мая 2020 г., в 07:21, Nick Edwards 
> >> написал(а):
> >> >
> >> > I'm looking at a new sister company we just took over, their remote
> >> > village has 1700 analogue phone lines to the workers huts, but they go
> >> > nowhere past the MDF.
> >> >
> >> > The office runs voip, now i'm told i have to get phones to the workers
> >> > because the  AKA previous owners of that
> >> > business  stopped the build when they ran into financial problems.
> >> >
> >> > So my plan is to utilize the existing many miles worth of copper
> pairs.
> >> >
> >> > I'm looking at throwing them into Versa Dslams that use pppoe pass
> >> > through, throw in a mikoTik 1036 as pppoe server, and we got spare
> >> > R710 i can use as radius server, and by my limited knowledge this
> >> > works.
> >> >
> >> > OK data done, but... now all those pots out lines need to go somewhere
> >> > that can handle 1700 or more lines, I am looking at either grandstream
> >> > 48 port FXS gateways or sangoma vega 50 ports (which Ill use as 48 so
> >> > theres a 1:1 match with dslams) the vega 3050 probably wont be used
> >> > because they are more than twice the price of grandstream.
> >> >
> >> > But this all results in a sh1te load of 48 port gateways (power is not
> >> > a concern), but wondering if there is another solution that is more
> >> > cost effective? Seems the regular NEC's Siemens and so on might have
> >> > an option but I can imagine it will be far more expensive than a bunch
> >> > of individual gateways.
> >> >
> >> > This project is in my mind workable, but i've not done such a thing on
> >> > a large scale.
> >> > 

FlowSpec

[Colton Conor]

Do any of the large transit providers support FlowSpec to transit customers
/ other carriers, or is that not a thing since they want to sell DDoS
protection services? FlowSpec sounds much better than RTBH (remotely
triggered blackhole), but I am not sure if  FlowSpec is widely implemented.
I see the large router manufacturers support it.

Re: Recommended DDoS mitigation appliance?

[Colton Conor]

Phil,

This sounds like a different model to me. Kentik I think averages out
around $500 per 10G per month. Kentik doesn't do any scrubbing however.
Does anyone have guide to DDoS services? Seems like there is a wide array
of pricing and technology options.

On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 7:50 AM Phil Lavin  wrote:

> > So is Imperva similar to how Kentik operates? What was it priced liked?
>
> It is a nice model as you don't need additional hardware or virtual
> appliances on-prem, which cuts down on the CAPEX cost. Like everyone else,
> they price the scrubbing based on your clean traffic levels. Price I have
> is circa $73,000 a year for 250mbit clean traffic and circa $94,000 a year
> for 500mbit clean traffic. Reasonably good value if you get attacked a lot
> - a very expensive insurance policy if not. Yearly pricing is broadly on
> par with Radware, Arbor and A10 (Verisign).
>

Re: Recommended DDoS mitigation appliance?

[Colton Conor]

Javier,

So is Imperva similar to how Kentik operates? What was it priced liked?  I
like the Kentik solution, but their per router per month pricing is too
expensive even for a small network.

On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 11:01 AM Javier Juan  wrote:

> Hi !
>
> I was looking around (a couple years ago) for mitigation appliances
> (Riorey, Arbor, F5 and so on) but the best and almost affordable
> solution I found was Incapsula/Imperva.
>
> https://docs.imperva.com/bundle/cloud-application-security/page/introducing/network-ddos-monitoring.htm
>
>
> Basically, You send your flows to Imperva on cloud for analysis. As soon
> as they find DDoS attack , they activate mitigation. It´s some kind of
> elegant-hybrid solution without on-premise appliances . Just check it out :)
>
> Regards,
>
> JJ
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 11:20 PM Rabbi Rob Thomas  wrote:
>
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA256
>>
>>
>> Hello, NANOG!
>>
>> I'm in the midst of rebuilding/upgrading our backbone and peering -
>> sessions cheerfully accepted :) - and am curious what folks recommend
>> in the DDoS mitigation appliance realm?  Ideally it would be capable
>> of 10Gbps and circa 14Mpps rate of mitigation.  If you have a
>> recommendation, I'd love to hear it and the reasons for it.  If you
>> have an alternative to an appliance that has worked well for you
>> (we're a mix of Cisco and Juniper), I'm all ears.
>>
>> Private responses are fine, and I'm happy to summarize back to the
>> list if there is interest.
>>
>> Thank you!
>> Rob.
>> - --
>> Rabbi Rob Thomas   Team Cymru
>>"It is easy to believe in freedom of speech for those with whom we
>> agree." - Leo McKern
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>>
>> iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEDcVjavXj08cL/QwdQ+hhYvqF8o0FAl3Rx08ACgkQQ+hhYvqF
>> 8o0snw/8CxTOujcodNh/huMXZaUNlMNoNRz3IoPqBiAP9BZomMz9xqlpDW/qvWBF
>> xhoJ07C0O0mo5ilNjnPR308uifIBu6ylw02PshOCU06dV0afgtndxGg5AoG9npUV
>> 7uCi2afWaf22dq5TwKLut8QPNNQJTRzndX88xJw9MzzoBTemxRtM7ft4H3UhJ0hv
>> oKo83FCNZQt36I+GZA9GBJeXM+o0f5h0w6fhRqARzttf6brJZdXgROyIQ7jptGuZ
>> N3Yrjk/8RM4XKMnYbtIwl8NS3c0nEGN3ndn+Bz7p2FE7QJrZKonk/o03dvr2kU0Y
>> 7gUQliOOzV9EsptVGyLCVyDJSElvXTBaps0giEVZhdmEIDJPWvBc+93j1g7xbmti
>> 27lT6+5qBmEN0oKJWxXgtw9/n1yX9vsc7tXlgYDoXGhIlszdB3baRao1tYEp8BBQ
>> hTGAULRfHe94tRzvOOQUQIuhzNcK1Q4E2jU6kzBB1wJsBD4zuHk+QIJLSHBmmnka
>> VNKlQ+5zP8dmSMBp6k4feqAtt3hy0Bj+34FbdQZYPutIe3VXHEjpWI3jI9vKjhtC
>> g7U/9CQIjVUl2APn1IllArpUpETBlNq7dSeJNUN/4Xh+eHglUnEn/m2kFG5mizmP
>> d0YvLEVe0/+WzDUz+y3KxDVP5tdJT1VM46FHIgeiB4KrWNGRPUo=
>> =uuel
>> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>>
>

Re: Backup over 4G/LTE

[Colton Conor]

Does Velcloud make an actual LTE box?

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 6:44 AM K. Scott Helms 
wrote:

> There are lots of options to solve that problem.
>
> Peplink, 128T, Viptela (Cisco), Velocloud (VMWare), etc.
>
> Scott Helms
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 6:31 PM K MEKKAOUI  wrote:
>
>> Dear NANOG Community,
>>
>>
>>
>> Can anyone help with any device information that provides redundancy for
>> business internet access? In other words when the internet provided through
>> the cable modem fails the 4G/LTE takes over automatically to provide
>> internet access to the client.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>>
>>
>> KARIM M.
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: Recommended DDoS mitigation appliance?

[Colton Conor]

Mike,

The free trial is the paid version right? Just was wondering if you use the
community or advanced paid version.

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 4:38 PM Mike  wrote:

> I had intended to use the paid version once the 'free trial' proved to
> work, but for the previously mentioned reasons it did not and I gave up.
> Would still love to have this style of solution in my network and still
> open to other solutions, just haven't really found anything else.
>
>
> On 1/28/20 2:46 PM, Colton Conor wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> What did you end up going with if not fastnetmon? Were you using
> their paid or free version?
>
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 4:45 PM Mike  wrote:
>
>>
>> On 12/5/19 1:43 PM, Hugo Slabbert wrote:
>> >> FastNetMon is awesome, but its a detection tool with no mitigation
>> >> capacity whatsoever.
>> >
>> > Does is not, though, provide the ability to hook into RTBH or Flowspec
>> > setups?
>> >
>>
>> Yes it does provide RTBH hook.
>>
>> I evaluated fastnetmon using exactly the 'quick setup' and found it to
>> have some serious problems with false alarms and statistical anomalies,
>> at least when using pure netflow data (did not try sampled mode).  Hosts
>> that were not in fact receiving >100mbps traffic (a traffic level I
>> predetermined as 'attack' for a given network segment), would
>> occasionally get flagged as such (and rtbh activated), while 2 real
>> attacks that came during the testing period (60 days for me) went
>> completely unnoticed. Support seemed to concede that sampled mode is
>> really the only accurate method, and which by this time I'd expended all
>> my interest. Great concept, cool integration, just not ready for prime
>> time.
>>
>>
>> MIke-
>>
>>

Re: Backup over 4G/LTE

[Colton Conor]

Cradlepoint is probably the biggest player in this space.

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 5:31 PM K MEKKAOUI  wrote:

> Dear NANOG Community,
>
>
>
> Can anyone help with any device information that provides redundancy for
> business internet access? In other words when the internet provided through
> the cable modem fails the 4G/LTE takes over automatically to provide
> internet access to the client.
>
>
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
> KARIM M.
>
>
>

Re: Recommended DDoS mitigation appliance?

[Colton Conor]

Mike,

What did you end up going with if not fastnetmon? Were you using their paid
or free version?

On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 4:45 PM Mike  wrote:

>
> On 12/5/19 1:43 PM, Hugo Slabbert wrote:
> >> FastNetMon is awesome, but its a detection tool with no mitigation
> >> capacity whatsoever.
> >
> > Does is not, though, provide the ability to hook into RTBH or Flowspec
> > setups?
> >
>
> Yes it does provide RTBH hook.
>
> I evaluated fastnetmon using exactly the 'quick setup' and found it to
> have some serious problems with false alarms and statistical anomalies,
> at least when using pure netflow data (did not try sampled mode).  Hosts
> that were not in fact receiving >100mbps traffic (a traffic level I
> predetermined as 'attack' for a given network segment), would
> occasionally get flagged as such (and rtbh activated), while 2 real
> attacks that came during the testing period (60 days for me) went
> completely unnoticed. Support seemed to concede that sampled mode is
> really the only accurate method, and which by this time I'd expended all
> my interest. Great concept, cool integration, just not ready for prime
> time.
>
>
> MIke-
>
>

Re: AT released DANOS code to Linux Foundation

[Colton Conor]

Robert,

What  ASICs are supported by DANOS?

On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 7:52 PM Tim Jackson  wrote:

> Just curious what ASICs/platforms/NICs are supported? I didn't see any
> information about anything on the wiki.
>
> --
> Tim
>
> On Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 7:31 PM Robert Bays  wrote:
>
>> For the open source version we replaced our proprietary routing protocol
>> stack with FRR.
>>
>> Since the AT acquisition we have also added support for a few merchant
>> silicon platforms in a hybrid software/hardware forwarding plane.  ONIE
>> images are available from the same link.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robert.
>>
>>
>> On Nov 18, 2019, at 2:24 PM, Jared Geiger  wrote:
>>
>> DANOS is using FRR in the opensource version at least.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 1:15 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> Chances are, if there was a decision to be made, UBNT made the wrong
>>> choice.
>>>
>>> That said, I've heard a lot of good about ZebOS.  *shrugs*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Rubens Kuhl" 
>>> *To: *"Nanog" 
>>> *Sent: *Monday, November 18, 2019 3:10:39 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: AT released DANOS code to Linux Foundation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 5:55 PM Brielle  wrote:
>>>
 On 11/18/2019 1:31 PM, Jared Geiger wrote:
 > This past Friday, the code for DANOS was released as open source to
 the
 > Linux Foundation and published at https://github.com/danos

 This is pretty awesome news.

  From what I'm reading, it looks like the commercial support options
 will be able to use ZebOS as the routing engine instead of quagga?
 EdgeOS has been using it for a while, and was a huge step up in terms
 of
 stability and functionality.


>>> Curiously, at the same time EdgeOS replaced Quagga with ZebOS I started
>>> reading more complaints and more people dropping UBNT altogether in the L3
>>> world.
>>> So I wonder if it was a good decision or not...
>>>
>>>
>>> Rubens
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: VDSL

[Colton Conor]

We bond 8 VDSL2 pairs together, so getting 500Mbps is easily possible if
they are close to the DSLAM.

On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 5:28 PM Ryland Kremeier 
wrote:

> We provide between 250Mb/s and 1Gb/s fiber-to-the-home services to all our
> subscribers. We do not use VDSL.
>
> I personally do not have our services in my area yet as I live at the
> furthest possible point to which we will expand. So until then I use
> Centurylink.
>
>
>
> *From:* Matt Harris 
> *Sent:* Friday, October 18, 2019 9:08 AM
> *To:* Ryland Kremeier 
> *Cc:* Rod Beck ; Nanog@nanog.org
> *Subject:* Re: VDSL
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 8:46 AM Ryland Kremeier <
> rkreme...@barryelectric.com> wrote:
>
> Can confirm. Currently on VDSL in rural Missouri, speed is capped at
> 5Mb/s, but has the capability of 7.5Mb/s. All customers from the provider
> here are on VDSL.
>
>
>
> I'm guessing from your email address that you get that from your electric
> coop, too? At the state fair a couple of months ago, I had the opportunity
> to speak to the guy who architected and implemented the FTTH rollout for
> Ralls County electric coop, up north of StL along the IL border. They did,
> from what I could tell from my conversation, everything right and were
> providing gigabit services to their users even in relatively rural areas.
> Hopefully you guys will get something like that going at some point soon as
> well!
>
>
>

Re: Free Open Source Network Operating Systems

[Colton Conor]

Are either of you using SONiC in production? Seems to be well backed, and
have good feature support.



On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 10:42 PM Tim Jackson  wrote:

> SONiC
>
> https://azure.github.io/SONiC/
>
> On Sat, Mar 9, 2019, 10:09 AM Colton Conor  wrote:
>
>> What free, opensouce, network operating systems currently exist that run
>> on whitebox broadcom or other merchant silicon switches?
>>
>> I know Cumulus is very popular, but I don't believe they have a free
>> version that runs on whitebox switches right? Only on a virtual machine
>> from what I can tell.
>>
>> I think if one of these vendors would release a free and truly opensource
>> network operating system, with the option for paid support if needed, then
>> whitebox switching would really take off. This would be similar to the
>> Redhat model, but for the networking world.
>>
>> Right now, the cost of the whitebox plus a paid network operating system
>> seems to equal the same cost as a discounted Juniper, Cisco, or Arista. I
>> am not seeing the savings on paper.
>>
>> If we could just buy the whitebox hardware, and have a free operating
>> system on there, then financially whitebox switches would be half the cost
>> of a similar Cisco switch after discount.
>>
>> Am I missing something?
>>
>>
>>

Re: Free Open Source Network Operating Systems

[Colton Conor]

Luke,

Does VYOS run on bare metal broadcom switches though? I know it runs on
X86, but I wan't aware it could run on bare metal switches. I don't see a
hardware compatibility list on their website either.

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 10:32 AM Luke Marrott  wrote:

> Been a long time since I’ve messed with it but Vyatta may be worth looking
> at.
>
> https://vyos.io/
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 09:09 Colton Conor  wrote:
>
>> What free, opensouce, network operating systems currently exist that run
>> on whitebox broadcom or other merchant silicon switches?
>>
>> I know Cumulus is very popular, but I don't believe they have a free
>> version that runs on whitebox switches right? Only on a virtual machine
>> from what I can tell.
>>
>> I think if one of these vendors would release a free and truly opensource
>> network operating system, with the option for paid support if needed, then
>> whitebox switching would really take off. This would be similar to the
>> Redhat model, but for the networking world.
>>
>> Right now, the cost of the whitebox plus a paid network operating system
>> seems to equal the same cost as a discounted Juniper, Cisco, or Arista. I
>> am not seeing the savings on paper.
>>
>> If we could just buy the whitebox hardware, and have a free operating
>> system on there, then financially whitebox switches would be half the cost
>> of a similar Cisco switch after discount.
>>
>> Am I missing something?
>>
>>
>> --
> :Luke Marrott
>

Free Open Source Network Operating Systems

[Colton Conor]

What free, opensouce, network operating systems currently exist that run on
whitebox broadcom or other merchant silicon switches?

I know Cumulus is very popular, but I don't believe they have a free
version that runs on whitebox switches right? Only on a virtual machine
from what I can tell.

I think if one of these vendors would release a free and truly opensource
network operating system, with the option for paid support if needed, then
whitebox switching would really take off. This would be similar to the
Redhat model, but for the networking world.

Right now, the cost of the whitebox plus a paid network operating system
seems to equal the same cost as a discounted Juniper, Cisco, or Arista. I
am not seeing the savings on paper.

If we could just buy the whitebox hardware, and have a free operating
system on there, then financially whitebox switches would be half the cost
of a similar Cisco switch after discount.

Am I missing something?

Re: Arista Layer3

[Colton Conor]

So how does the  7280SR-48C6 compare to the  SLX9540? They are the same
Broadcom chipset right? So the real question, is how does the product
differ in software?



On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 10:58 AM Kaiser, Erich  wrote:

> Agreed.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 2:16 AM Brandon Martin 
> wrote:
>
>> On 3/6/19 12:36 AM, Colton Conor wrote:
>> > How much do these boxes cost?
>>
>> List is about $100k in North America for a 9640 with all the ports
>> "unlocked", full hardware kit (PSUs, fans, etc.) and some
>> maintenance/support.  Take whatever your standard Brocade/Extreme
>> discount from that tends to look like.  I should hope nobody pays list
>> or anywhere close.
>> --
>> Brandon Martin
>>
>

Re: Arista Layer3

[Colton Conor]

How much do these boxes cost?

On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 5:24 PM Kaiser, Erich  wrote:

> It would be worth your time to look at Extreme SLX9640 with advanced
> routing license.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 4:47 PM Roel Parijs  wrote:
>
>> We have been using the 7280SR-48C6 for 2.5 years now. Just after Arista
>> announced the full table BGP routing.
>> Looking at the price / port there is nothing near Arista. We also use
>> Cisco ASR1K and Juniper MX204 but these have far less capacity.
>>
>> When we first started, there were quite a few features missing but over
>> the past 2 year they have really been catching up. I was very happy when
>> they added MSS clamping at the end of last year.
>>
>> The new version 7280R2K should be able to handle 2M routes.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 9:31 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> Check out the 7280sr2k, which is actually 24*10G, 24*25G, 6*100G
>>>
>>> On 03/05/2019 08:55 PM, David Hubbard wrote:
>>> > I love the NCS5501, but once Arista gets the 2M-route capacity down
>>> into the 48x10g format, I'd jump ship in a heartbeat; currently you have to
>>> do a much larger chassis-based device or their 100gig 7280 to have that
>>> route scale.  My big gripes with the 5501 are that, due to its
>>> architecture, if you want to do uRPF, you chop your route scale in half,
>>> even on the 5501-SE.  5501 also has no supported configuration where you
>>> have both first hop redundancy and physical path redundancy, because you
>>> can't do both VRRP (its only redundant first hop option) and BVI's, can't
>>> do MC-LAG, can't do vPC, so you need switches in addition to the 5501's if
>>> that's the goal..
>>> >
>>> > David
>>> >
>>>
>>>

Re: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform

[Colton Conor]

Mark,

What does this Viavi's QT-600 platform cost? Does it test 10G or only 1G?

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 3:26 AM Mark Tinka  wrote:

> After faffing about for quite some time with Ookla and iPerf, we have now
> settled on Viavi's QT-600 platform:
>
>
> https://www.viavisolutions.com/en-us/products/qt-600-ethernet-probe-portfolio
>
> We shall use it as a private system, primarily to activate and handover
> customer services, and on rare occasions, perform post-delivery testing.
>
> We are no longer interested in indulging endless speed tests that are
> practically meaningless and leave ISP's with the burden of explaining
> things they can't control.
>
> Mark.
>
> On 16/Jan/19 18:52, Colton Conor wrote:
>
> As an internet service provider with many small business and residential
> customers, our most common tech support calls are speed related. Customers
> complaining on slow speeds, slowdowns, etc.
>
> We have a SNMP and ping monitoring platform today, but that mainly tells
> us up-time and if data is flowing across the interface. We can of course
> see the link speed, but customer call in saying the are not getting that
> speed.
>
> We are looking for a way to remotely test customers internet connections
> besides telling the customer to go to speedtest.net, or worse sending a
> tech out with a laptop to do the same thing.
>
> What opensource and commercial options are out there?
>
>
>

Re: Last Mile Design

[Colton Conor]

Well the CES is EOLed.

ACX5048 can be had for around $10k, so not cheap for residential customers
but fine for upstream aggregation.



On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 2:00 AM Mark Tinka  wrote:

>
>
> On 14/Feb/19 23:25, Brandon Martin wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > The CES is...wonky.  My Foundry/Brocade/Extreme SEs have steered me
> > away from them on more than one occasion.
> >
> > The CER is fine but of course more expensive.  It'll take a full
> > Internet table, though, which is handy.
> >
> > For AE resi deployments, I'd aggregate folks onto cheap 48 port
> > switches then terminate onto a single pizza box router somewhere "less
> > deep" in the network.  Distributed, in-field L3 termination doesn't
> > mean you have to terminate L3 right at the customer-facing port.
>
> One of the reasons I'd pay a little extra for an Active-E FTTH-centric
> switch is to control bandwidth right at the port the customer connects
> to. Cheap Ethernet switches generally don't have this capability (or if
> they do, have it in only one direction). This is why I felt the CES/CER
> were reasonable, but purely as Layer 2 termination and not using their
> IP/MPLS capabilities.
>
> Anyway, it's been a while since I had any interest in this, so it's
> possible life has changed since I was at the beach :-).
>
> Mark.
>
>

Re: Last Mile Design

[Colton Conor]

Aaron,

Indeed the ACX5048 is a great box but expensive. I was talking about using
the Gig-e ports of a 48 port switch to face subscribers, and asking what
low cost IP-Capable MPLS capable 48 port switch fits that role. Basically
an access switch for AE.





On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 9:10 AM Aaron Gould  wrote:

> Not sure if this is what y'all are talking about, but I use lots of
> Juniper ACX5048 (previously Cisco ME3600 or ASR9000) for mpls-capable
> router edging in native ip/ethernet from ftth gpon network into mpls
> l2circuits and LOTS of vrf vrf for public ip, vrf for cgnat for private
> ip, vrf for voice...  I'm glad I did it.
>
>
> Residential- ONT-ftth/gpon--OLT--ACX5048-mpls/vrf
> x---cgnat/inet--
>
> Residential- DSL Modem-DSLAM---ACX5048-mpls/vrf
> y---cgnat/inet--
>
> Residential- Cable Modem-CMTS---ACX5048-mpls/vrf
> z---cgnat/inet--
>
>
>
> -Aaron
>
>
>
>
>

Re: Last Mile Design

[Colton Conor]

Just wondering, but what IP-capable MPLS switches are people using to
deploy AE to residential internet connections? Most 48 port AE switches
from repetuable vendors are crazy expensive, and I can't see how the ROI
would ever work compared to GPON.



On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 4:25 PM Mark Tinka  wrote:

>
>
> On 9/Feb/19 18:07, Brandon Martin wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Bingo.  You're fine as long as your access L3 gear speaks MPLS.  That
> > does somewhat bump you out of the realm of "cheap L3 switch", but
> > there are still options.
>
> IP-capable switches that have little to no MPLS support would certainly
> be cheaper than one that does.
>
> But given the benefits of an MPLS-based Metro-E network vs. the
> traditional architecture, I find current prices somewhat reasonable.
>
> Mark.
>
>

Re: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform

[Colton Conor]

Tim,

Doesn't OpenWRT support iperf3? Why not use that instead of wget?

I think there are a ton of options if I go with an OpenWRT based router.
Still not sure if I want to go through the process of developing out own
consumer grade routers, but still no one beside Mikrotik seems to have
speed test's built into their sub $100 CPEs.


On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 11:35 AM Tim J  wrote:

> On 2019-01-18 10:37, Colton Conor wrote:
> > Aaron,
> >
> > How does the https://account.speedtestcustom.com/login [2]  differ
> > from hosting a speedtest.net [3] server as an ISP, and letting anyone
> > test through it? Seems the speedtest custom is a paid option, but
> > hosting a speedtest.net [3] server is free if you allow it to the
> > public domain. Sure it uses up bandwidth (which I am sure you have a
> > ton of), so I don't see the point of having a custom one?
> Hi Colton,
>
> This may be too light-weight and manual for you, but in the past I've
> supplied a few clients with a decent OpenWrt router. I can then SSH in
> and do a wget to my FTP site. It might not be 100% accurate, but it's
> good low cost option for me, and enough for my purposes. YMMV.
>
> Tim
>
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 10:27 AM Aaron Gould  wrote:
> >
> >> https://github.com/adolfintel/speedtest [1] - one drawback we’ve
> >> seen is upload test has issues on some iphones (maybe other mobile
> >> devices) in safari, but I think chrome might work, unsure
> >>
> >> https://account.speedtestcustom.com/login [2] - ookla customer
> >> speedtest – we have this running *INTERNALLY* in our network on VM
> >> and also bare-metal, this is where our customers test locally
> >>
> >> Iperf - us engineers used it
> >>
> >> wifiperf – us engineers used it
> >>
> >> -Aaron
> >
> >
> > Links:
> > --
> > [1] https://github.com/adolfintel/speedtest
> > [2] https://account.speedtestcustom.com/login
> > [3] http://speedtest.net
>
> --
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
> addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the
> system manager. This message contains confidential information and is
> intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named
> addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
> Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this
> e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are
> not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
> distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
> information is strictly prohibited.
>

Re: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform

[Colton Conor]

Aaron,

How does the https://account.speedtestcustom.com/login  differ from hosting
a speedtest.net server as an ISP, and letting anyone test through it? Seems
the speedtest custom is a paid option, but hosting a speedtest.net server
is free if you allow it to the public domain. Sure it uses up bandwidth
(which I am sure you have a ton of), so I don't see the point of having a
custom one?

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 10:27 AM Aaron Gould  wrote:

> https://github.com/adolfintel/speedtest - one drawback we’ve seen is
> upload test has issues on some iphones (maybe other mobile devices) in
> safari, but I think chrome might work, unsure
>
>
>
> https://account.speedtestcustom.com/login - ookla customer speedtest – we
> have this running **internally** in our network on VM and also
> bare-metal, this is where our customers test locally
>
>
>
> Iperf  - us engineers used it
>
> wifiperf – us engineers used it
>
>
>
> -Aaron
>
>
>

Re: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform

[Colton Conor]

Philip,

Which TR-069 tools are you referring to? I looked at TR-143, but its my
understanding it downloads a small file (like 50MB) from the TR-069 server
to the CPE's ram. Then uploads the file back. Unfortunately I couldn't see
how this would reliability test 1Gbps connections. Can you increase the
file size? Most of these modems have like 128MB ram right now?

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 5:07 PM Philip Loenneker <
philip.loenne...@tasmanet.com.au> wrote:

> Connor,
>
>
>
> If you use the Traffic Generator tool instead of the Bandwidth Test tool
> built into MikroTik, you can definitely flood a 1Gbps link. However it
> requires the device to receive the packets that it has sent out, so it’s
> only viable for links with the same up/down speed.
>
>
>
> We have been investigating some TR-069 platforms, and several of those
> offer speed test functionality built in. This means our helpdesk guys can
> just click a few buttons to trigger it, it only talks to the CPE (nothing
> on customer LAN), and people don’t need to know how to configure the test
> other than “click here”. TR-069 also has a lot of other advantages which
> you can easily discover with a quick search.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Philip Loenneker | Network Engineer | TasmaNet
>
>
>
> *From:* NANOG  *On Behalf Of *Colton Conor
> *Sent:* Friday, 18 January 2019 12:17 AM
> *To:* James Bensley 
> *Cc:* NANOG 
> *Subject:* Re: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform
>
>
>
> All, thanks for the recommendations both on and off list.
>
>
>
> It has been brought to my attention that a Mikrotik has a bandwidth speed
> test tool built into their operating system. Someone recommended a
> https://mikrotik.com/product/hap_ac2 for MSRP of $69. The release notes
> of the newest version say:
>
>
>
> !) speedtest - added "/tool speed-test" for ping latency, jitter, loss and
> TCP and UDP download, upload speed measurements (CLI only);
> *) btest - added multithreading support for both UDP and TCP tests;
>
>
>
> Do you think this device can push a full 1Gbps connection? It does have a
> quad core qualcom processor.
>
>
>
> Besides mikrotik, I haven't found anything that doesn't require me to
> build a solution. Like OpenWRT with ipef3, or something like that.
>
>
>
> Seems like a commercial solution would exist for this.  I though CAF
> providers have to test bandwidth for the FCC randomly to get funding?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 2:59 AM James Bensley  wrote:
>
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 16:54, Colton Conor  wrote:
> >
> > As an internet service provider with many small business and residential
> customers, our most common tech support calls are speed related. Customers
> complaining on slow speeds, slowdowns, etc.
> >
> > We have a SNMP and ping monitoring platform today, but that mainly tells
> us up-time and if data is flowing across the interface. We can of course
> see the link speed, but customer call in saying the are not getting that
> speed.
> >
> > We are looking for a way to remotely test customers internet connections
> besides telling the customer to go to speedtest.net, or worse sending a
> tech out with a laptop to do the same thing.
> >
> > What opensource and commercial options are out there?
>
> Hi Colton,
>
> In the past I have used CPEs which support remote loopback. When the
> customer complains we enable remote loopback, send the traffic to that
> customers connection (rather than requiring a CPE that can generate
> the traffic or having an on site device) and measuring what comes
> back.
>
> Cheers,
> James.
>
>

Re: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform

[Colton Conor]

Mike,

So are you saying in Mikrotik, there is a Btest tool, a traffic generator
tool, and a new speed-test tool? Sounds like this low cost CPE has a ton of
options for remote speed test functionality?

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 5:16 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Mikrotik RC has a new speed-test tool. I believe it's an improved BTEst.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Philip Loenneker" 
> *To: *"NANOG" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, January 17, 2019 5:07:04 PM
> *Subject: *RE: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform
>
> Connor,
>
>
>
> If you use the Traffic Generator tool instead of the Bandwidth Test tool
> built into MikroTik, you can definitely flood a 1Gbps link. However it
> requires the device to receive the packets that it has sent out, so it’s
> only viable for links with the same up/down speed.
>
>
>
> We have been investigating some TR-069 platforms, and several of those
> offer speed test functionality built in. This means our helpdesk guys can
> just click a few buttons to trigger it, it only talks to the CPE (nothing
> on customer LAN), and people don’t need to know how to configure the test
> other than “click here”. TR-069 also has a lot of other advantages which
> you can easily discover with a quick search.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Philip Loenneker | Network Engineer | TasmaNet
>
>
>
> *From:* NANOG  *On Behalf Of *Colton Conor
> *Sent:* Friday, 18 January 2019 12:17 AM
> *To:* James Bensley 
> *Cc:* NANOG 
> *Subject:* Re: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform
>
>
>
> All, thanks for the recommendations both on and off list.
>
>
>
> It has been brought to my attention that a Mikrotik has a bandwidth speed
> test tool built into their operating system. Someone recommended a
> https://mikrotik.com/product/hap_ac2 for MSRP of $69. The release notes
> of the newest version say:
>
>
>
> !) speedtest - added "/tool speed-test" for ping latency, jitter, loss and
> TCP and UDP download, upload speed measurements (CLI only);
> *) btest - added multithreading support for both UDP and TCP tests;
>
>
>
> Do you think this device can push a full 1Gbps connection? It does have a
> quad core qualcom processor.
>
>
>
> Besides mikrotik, I haven't found anything that doesn't require me to
> build a solution. Like OpenWRT with ipef3, or something like that.
>
>
>
> Seems like a commercial solution would exist for this.  I though CAF
> providers have to test bandwidth for the FCC randomly to get funding?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 2:59 AM James Bensley  wrote:
>
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 16:54, Colton Conor  wrote:
> >
> > As an internet service provider with many small business and residential
> customers, our most common tech support calls are speed related. Customers
> complaining on slow speeds, slowdowns, etc.
> >
> > We have a SNMP and ping monitoring platform today, but that mainly tells
> us up-time and if data is flowing across the interface. We can of course
> see the link speed, but customer call in saying the are not getting that
> speed.
> >
> > We are looking for a way to remotely test customers internet connections
> besides telling the customer to go to speedtest.net, or worse sending a
> tech out with a laptop to do the same thing.
> >
> > What opensource and commercial options are out there?
>
> Hi Colton,
>
> In the past I have used CPEs which support remote loopback. When the
> customer complains we enable remote loopback, send the traffic to that
> customers connection (rather than requiring a CPE that can generate
> the traffic or having an on site device) and measuring what comes
> back.
>
> Cheers,
> James.
>
>
>

Re: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform

[Colton Conor]

All, thanks for the recommendations both on and off list.

It has been brought to my attention that a Mikrotik has a bandwidth speed
test tool built into their operating system. Someone recommended a
https://mikrotik.com/product/hap_ac2 for MSRP of $69. The release notes of
the newest version say:

!) speedtest - added "/tool speed-test" for ping latency, jitter, loss and
TCP and UDP download, upload speed measurements (CLI only);
*) btest - added multithreading support for both UDP and TCP tests;

Do you think this device can push a full 1Gbps connection? It does have a
quad core qualcom processor.

Besides mikrotik, I haven't found anything that doesn't require me to build
a solution. Like OpenWRT with ipef3, or something like that.

Seems like a commercial solution would exist for this.  I though CAF
providers have to test bandwidth for the FCC randomly to get funding?

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 2:59 AM James Bensley  wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 16:54, Colton Conor  wrote:
> >
> > As an internet service provider with many small business and residential
> customers, our most common tech support calls are speed related. Customers
> complaining on slow speeds, slowdowns, etc.
> >
> > We have a SNMP and ping monitoring platform today, but that mainly tells
> us up-time and if data is flowing across the interface. We can of course
> see the link speed, but customer call in saying the are not getting that
> speed.
> >
> > We are looking for a way to remotely test customers internet connections
> besides telling the customer to go to speedtest.net, or worse sending a
> tech out with a laptop to do the same thing.
> >
> > What opensource and commercial options are out there?
>
> Hi Colton,
>
> In the past I have used CPEs which support remote loopback. When the
> customer complains we enable remote loopback, send the traffic to that
> customers connection (rather than requiring a CPE that can generate
> the traffic or having an on site device) and measuring what comes
> back.
>
> Cheers,
> James.
>

Re: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform

[Colton Conor]

Last time I setup Iperf3 it was semi difficult, and would be impossible
trying to coach a soccer mom on how to setup over the phone.

I am leaning towards a CPE that has speed test built in, or a low cost, sub
$100 device we could ship to the customer to install. Anyone know of
something like that?

On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 10:55 AM David Guo  wrote:

> We ask our customers use iperf3 to test speed.
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>
> --
> *From:* NANOG  on behalf of Colton Conor <
> colton.co...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 17, 2019 00:54
> *To:* NANOG
> *Subject:* Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform
>
> As an internet service provider with many small business and residential
> customers, our most common tech support calls are speed related. Customers
> complaining on slow speeds, slowdowns, etc.
>
> We have a SNMP and ping monitoring platform today, but that mainly tells
> us up-time and if data is flowing across the interface. We can of course
> see the link speed, but customer call in saying the are not getting that
> speed.
>
> We are looking for a way to remotely test customers internet connections
> besides telling the customer to go to speedtest.net, or worse sending a
> tech out with a laptop to do the same thing.
>
> What opensource and commercial options are out there?
>
>

Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform

[Colton Conor]

As an internet service provider with many small business and residential
customers, our most common tech support calls are speed related. Customers
complaining on slow speeds, slowdowns, etc.

We have a SNMP and ping monitoring platform today, but that mainly tells us
up-time and if data is flowing across the interface. We can of course see
the link speed, but customer call in saying the are not getting that speed.

We are looking for a way to remotely test customers internet connections
besides telling the customer to go to speedtest.net, or worse sending a
tech out with a laptop to do the same thing.

What opensource and commercial options are out there?

Re: IP Dslams

[Colton Conor]

Indstead of using a  Vega 3050 for voice I would just get a DSLAM with a
Combo card, and be done with it. VDSL2+ ports plus SIP FXS all on the same
card. With that you get metalic testing which would be good for your
situation.

How many units are you talking about? Do you have access to Coaxial cable?

On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 6:31 AM Nick Edwards 
wrote:

> drats that last @ should have been to Colton, my apologies...
>
> I have in past used dlink and planet dslams as they were back then dirt
> cheap, I guess I might have to look at a small mikrotik device that can do
> all my requirements, just trying to use the KISS approach, as I'm the
> contractor installing it and wont be the one running it on a day to day
> as-needed basis, thats their admissions staff who will add/delete them
>
> On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 10:19 PM Nick Edwards 
> wrote:
>
>> Firstly, thanks everyone for replies.
>>
>> @Carl:  ADSL2 dslams would no doubt be cheaper than VDSL for retirement
>> village, and as a retirement village, residents must be 65+, therefor, they
>> wont have high bandwidth needs, based on their other much older properties,
>> their residents use between 2 and 15GB a month, with an average of 5GB, so
>> VDSL -if not the same cost as ADSL2 dslams, would be a waste, and from my
>> experience ADSL2 is more stable over distances, where the furthest villas
>> are 800 meters away from comms room.
>>
>> As for phones, we are installing a PBXact1000, and for the villas, we
>> will be using a bunch of Vega 3050 50 port Analogue gateways talking to it.
>> These villas are stand alone duplexes, so running ethernet is not feasible
>> They have a PMS which takes care of billing, although if they do what do at
>> other places they run, residents are usually given a 30 dollar a month call
>> credit which is likely included in their monthly "complex maintenance" fees.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 8:12 AM Colton Conor 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Carl,
>>>
>>> What did you select to replace your MX BNG?
>>>
>>> To Nick, we use Adtran Total Access 5000's today. They work fine, but if
>>> I was doing a new install I would do Calix with their newer lines that have
>>> SDN BNG functions. Calix just has better CPE to go along with it, but they
>>> are just G.Fast and ethernet only CPE's.
>>>
>>> Why only ADSL2+?
>>>
>>> What are you doing for voice?
>>>
>>> Do you have access to Coax cable? If so I would do a small 32x10 CMTS
>>> with cable modem. Much cheaper and future proof.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 3:47 PM Carl Peterson <
>>> carl-li...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'd consider breaking down the two functions.
>>>> Set up your customer connections using ADSL Ethernet, etc and put each
>>>> unit in the building on its own CVLAN.  This should never change even when
>>>> the subscribers in the unit change.  This way you can configure it once and
>>>> never touch it again.  I'd use Calix G.fast but I have no idea what your
>>>> budget/wiring looks like and I'm not sure where their e3-48 and E5-48 are
>>>> in general availability.
>>>>
>>>> Then hand the SVLAN with all the CVLANs off to the BNG and authenticate
>>>> the circuits using IPoE.  Waystream has an ASR6000 switch with BNG
>>>> functionalities (I've never used it, just came across it when looking for
>>>> other options to replace my MX BNG.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 1:15 PM Nick Edwards 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Howdy,
>>>>> We have a requirement for an aged care facility to provide voice and
>>>>> data, we have the voice worked out, but data, WiFi is out of the question,
>>>>> so are looking for IP-Dslams, preferably a system that is all-in-one, or
>>>>> self contained, as in contains its own BBRAS/LNS/PPP server/Radius, such 
>>>>> as
>>>>> has a property managment API, or even just a webpage manager where admin
>>>>> can add in new residents when they arive, or delete when they depart I 
>>>>> know
>>>>> these used to be available  many years ago, but that vendor has like many
>>>>> vanished, only requirement is for ADSL2+, prefer units with either 48 
>>>>> ports
>>>>> or multiples of (192 etc) and have filtered voice out ports (telco50/rj21
>>>>> etc)
>>>>>
>>>>> If anyone knows of such units, would appreciate some details on them,
>>>>> brand/model suppliers if known, etc, we can try get out google fu back if
>>>>> we have some steering:)
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank Y'all
>>>>>
>>>>> (resent - original never made it to the list for some gremlin reason)
>>>>>
>>>>

Re: Service Provider NetFlow Collectors

[Colton Conor]

Doesn't Kentik cost like $2000 a month minimum?


On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 11:57 AM Matthew Crocker 
wrote:

>  +1 Kentik as well,  DDoS, RTBH, Netflow.  Cloud based so I don't have to
> worry about it.
>
> On 12/31/18, 11:37 AM, "NANOG on behalf of Bryan Holloway" <
> nanog-boun...@nanog.org on behalf of br...@shout.net> wrote:
>
> +1 Kentik ...
>
> We've been using their DDoS/RTBH mitigation with good success.
>
>
> On 12/31/18 3:52 AM, Eric Lindsjö wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > We use kentik and we're very happy. Works great, tons of new
> features
> > coming along all the time. Going to start looking into ddos
> detection
> > and mitigation soon.
> >
> > Would recommend.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Eric Lindsjö
> >
> >
> > On 12/31/2018 04:29 AM, Erik Sundberg wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Nanog….
> >>
> >> We are looking at replacing our Netflow collector. I am wonder what
> >> other service providers are using to collect netflow data off their
> >> Core and Edge Routers. Pros/Cons… What to watch out for any info
> would
> >> help.
> >>
> >> We are mainly looking to analyze the netflow data. Bonus if it does
> >> ddos detection and mitigation.
> >>
> >> We are looking at
> >>
> >> ManageEngine Netflow Analyzer
> >>
> >> PRTG
> >>
> >> Plixer – Scrutinizer
> >>
> >> PeakFlow
> >>
> >> Kentik
> >>
> >> Solarwinds NTA
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance…
> >>
> >> Erik
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any
> documents,
> >> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain
> >> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not
> >> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it
> to
> >> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> disclosure,
> >> copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in
> or
> >> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have
> >> received this transmission in error please notify the sender
> >> immediately by replying to this e-mail. You must destroy the
> original
> >> transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any
> >> manner. Thank you.
> >
>
>
>

Re: IP Dslams

[Colton Conor]

Carl,

What did you select to replace your MX BNG?

To Nick, we use Adtran Total Access 5000's today. They work fine, but if I
was doing a new install I would do Calix with their newer lines that have
SDN BNG functions. Calix just has better CPE to go along with it, but they
are just G.Fast and ethernet only CPE's.

Why only ADSL2+?

What are you doing for voice?

Do you have access to Coax cable? If so I would do a small 32x10 CMTS with
cable modem. Much cheaper and future proof.

On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 3:47 PM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> I'd consider breaking down the two functions.
> Set up your customer connections using ADSL Ethernet, etc and put each
> unit in the building on its own CVLAN.  This should never change even when
> the subscribers in the unit change.  This way you can configure it once and
> never touch it again.  I'd use Calix G.fast but I have no idea what your
> budget/wiring looks like and I'm not sure where their e3-48 and E5-48 are
> in general availability.
>
> Then hand the SVLAN with all the CVLANs off to the BNG and authenticate
> the circuits using IPoE.  Waystream has an ASR6000 switch with BNG
> functionalities (I've never used it, just came across it when looking for
> other options to replace my MX BNG.
>
> On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 1:15 PM Nick Edwards 
> wrote:
>
>> Howdy,
>> We have a requirement for an aged care facility to provide voice and
>> data, we have the voice worked out, but data, WiFi is out of the question,
>> so are looking for IP-Dslams, preferably a system that is all-in-one, or
>> self contained, as in contains its own BBRAS/LNS/PPP server/Radius, such as
>> has a property managment API, or even just a webpage manager where admin
>> can add in new residents when they arive, or delete when they depart I know
>> these used to be available  many years ago, but that vendor has like many
>> vanished, only requirement is for ADSL2+, prefer units with either 48 ports
>> or multiples of (192 etc) and have filtered voice out ports (telco50/rj21
>> etc)
>>
>> If anyone knows of such units, would appreciate some details on them,
>> brand/model suppliers if known, etc, we can try get out google fu back if
>> we have some steering:)
>>
>> Thank Y'all
>>
>> (resent - original never made it to the list for some gremlin reason)
>>
>

Re: Pinging a Device Every Second

[Colton Conor]

The problem I am trying to solve is to accurately be able to tell a
customer if their home internet connection was up or down.  Example,
customer calls in and says my internet was down for 2 minutes yesterday. We
need to be able to verify that their internet connection was indeed down.
Right now we have no easy way to do this.  Getting metrics like packet loss
and jitter would be great too, though I realize ICMP data path does not
always equal customer experience as many network device prioritize ICMP
traffic. However ICMP pings over the internet do usually accurately tell if
a customers modem is indeed online or not.

Most devices out in the field like ONT's and DSL modems do not support SNMP
but rather use TR-069 for management. Most of these devices only check into
the TR-069 ACS server once a day.
If the consumer device does support SNMP, they usually have weak broadcom
or qualcom SoC processors, outdated linux kernel embedded operating
systems, limited ram, and storage. Most of these can't handle SNMP walks
every minute let alone every 5. We are talking about sub $100 routers here
not Juniper, Cisco, Arista, etc.

Most all of these consumer devices are connected to an carrier aggregation
device like a DSLAM, OLT, ethernet switch, or wireless access point. These
access devices do support SNMP, but most manufactures recommend only 5
minute SNMP poling, so a 2 minute outage would not easily be detected. Plus
its hard to correlate that consumer X is on port Y on access switch, and
get that right for a tier 1 CSR.

The only two ways I think I can accomplish this is:
1. ICMP pings to a device every so many seconds. Almost every device
supports responding to WAN ICMP pings.
or
2. IPFIX sampling at core router, and then drilling down by customer IP. I
think this will tell me if any data was flowing to this customers IP on a
second by second basis, but won't necessarily give us an up or down
indicator. Requires nothing from the consumer's router.





On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 10:51 AM Stephen Satchell  wrote:

> On 12/15/18 7:48 AM, Colton Conor wrote:
> > How much compute and network resources does it take for a NMS to:
> >
> > 1. ICMP ping a device every second
> > 2. Record these results.
> > 3. Report an alarm after so many seconds of missed pings.
> >
> > We are looking for a system to in near real-time monitor if an end
> > customers router is up or down. SNMP I assume would be too resource
> > intensive, so ICMP pings seem like the only logical solution.
> >
> > The question is once a second pings too polling on an NMS and a consumer
> > grade router? Does it take much network bandwidth and CPU resources from
> > both the NMS and CPE side?
> >
> > Lets say this is for a 1,000 customer ISP.
>
> What problem are you trying to solve, exactly?  That more than anything
> will dictate what you do.
>
> Short answer: about 1500 bits of bandwidth, and the CPU loading on the
> remote device is almost invisible.  Remember the only real difference
> between ping and SNMP monitoring (UDP) is the organization of the bits
> in the packet and the protocol number in the IP header.  It's still one
> packet pair exchanged, unless you get really ambitious with your SNMP
> OID list.
>
> When I was in a medium-sized hosting company, I developed an SNMP-based
> monitoring system that would query a number of load parameters (CPU,
> disk, network, overall) on a once a minute schedule, and would keep
> history for hours on the monitoring server.  The boss fretted about the
> load such monitoring would impose.  He never saw any.
>
> For pure link monitoring, which is what I'm hearing you want to do, in
> my experience I found that a six-second ping cycle gives lots of early
> warning for link failures.  Again, it depends on the specifications and
> detection targets.
>
> Some things to consider:
>
> 1.  Router restarts take a while.  Consumer-grade routers can take a
> minute or more to complete a restart to the point where it will respond
> to ping.  Carrier-grade routers are more variable but in general have so
> many options built into them that it takes longer to complete a restart
> cycle.  Since you are talking consumer-grade gear, you probably don't
> want to be sensitive to CP power sags.
>
> 2.  Depending on the technology used on the link, you may get some
> short-term outages, on the order of seconds, so doing "rapid" pings do
> nothing for you.  During my DSL time, ATM would drop out for short
> intervals -- so watch out for nuisance trips.
>
> 3.  Some routers implement ping limiting, so you have to balance your
> monitoring sample rate against DoS susceptibility. Offhand, I don't know
> the granularity of consumer router ping limiting, as I've never had that
> question pop up.
>
> 4.  

Pinging a Device Every Second

[Colton Conor]

How much compute and network resources does it take for a NMS to:

1. ICMP ping a device every second
2. Record these results.
3. Report an alarm after so many seconds of missed pings.

We are looking for a system to in near real-time monitor if an end
customers router is up or down. SNMP I assume would be too resource
intensive, so ICMP pings seem like the only logical solution.

The question is once a second pings too polling on an NMS and a consumer
grade router? Does it take much network bandwidth and CPU resources from
both the NMS and CPE side?

Lets say this is for a 1,000 customer ISP.

Re: Cheap switch with a couple 100G

[Colton Conor]

Mike,

Are you saying that you can buy a new Cisco Nexus 3064 or Arista 7050sx for
$1,000 new from these vendors, or are you talking about used stuff on eBay?
If you are comparing to used stuff on ebay pricing good luck. I doubt you
will find many used 100G switches as they are too new of a technology
unlike 10G. Hell you can barely buy a couple of 10KM 100G optics from
FS.com for less than $1000.



On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 12:11 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> No.
>
> Cisco Nexus 3064, Arista 7050sx, etc.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> Midwest-IX
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
> --
> *From: *"Chuck Church" 
> *To: *"Mike Hammett" , "North American Network
> Operators' Group" 
> *Sent: *Sunday, November 25, 2018 11:07:33 AM
> *Subject: *RE: Cheap switch with a couple 100G
>
> Under 1K for 48 10G ports?  Are you missing a decimal place?
>
> Chuck
>
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2018 9:39 AM
> To: 'North American Network Operators' Group' 
> Subject: Cheap switch with a couple 100G
>
> I keep hearing how cheap 100G is compared to 40G and it doesn't seem to
> hold true. Prove me wrong.
>
> Cisco Nexus and Arista both have switches with 48x 10G ports and 2x - 6x
> 40G ports for under $1k. Swap those 40G for 100G and you're at $5k - $7k.
>
> Am I missing some cheap switches with 100G?
>
>
> I ask this because the transport companies seem to have given up on 40G.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> Midwest-IX
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
>
>

Re: Brocade SLX Internet Edge

[Colton Conor]

I think Extreme is doing the same thing with their Extreme OptiScale™ that
Arista is doing with their Arista FlexRoute™ and EOS NetDB™. They are both
using Broadcom Jericho /Qurman with extenal TCAM, but still has a hardware
limitiation on route table size. Then in software they filer right?

Question is who has a better solution Arista or Extreme for this?

Also, the question is can any whitebox vendors do the same thing, with the
same Broadcom switch you can buy for around $9k new.

Another question, could you even consider these with the Juniper MX204
coming in at $20k?



On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 8:04 AM Kevin Burke 
wrote:

> Thanks for everyone who responded on and off list.
>
>
>
> As a small company that is happy to still be in business the pricing is
> too good to ignore.  A “gently used” ASR-9006 is something like $45k for
> one plus a shelf spare.  A brand new SLX 9540 is something like $30k for
> one plus a shelf spare.
>
>
>
> There were some common things.  Software is behind where we would like.
> The occasional bug like that SSH one.  Also there are some relatively
> common features like IPv6 outbound ACL and BGP MED that aren’t there.  This
> stuff isn't a showstopper but I will take this a sign of things to come.
>
>
>
> As for the notes about full tables.  Different vendors seem to have used
> different techniques to get past the hard FIB limit that we are all used
> to.  I had the same question when pawing through the spec sheets.  So I
> asked the sales rep:
>
>
>
> “We can support 1.5M routes…..
>
>
>
> *These platforms support all of the requirements detailed above for
> Internet routing. In particular, they support a table size of 1.5 million
> IP routes today, ensuring headroom for the next 5-7 years. This scale is
> made possible through our new technology called Extreme OptiScale™ for
> Internet Routing that optimizes programmable hardware and software
> capabilities to accelerate innovation and deliver investment protection.*
>
>
>
>
> https://www.extremenetworks.com/extreme-networks-blog/internet-routing-in-the-enterprise/
> 
> ”
>
>
>
>
>
> Kevin Burke
>
> 802-540-0979
>
> Burlington Telecom - City of Burlington
>
> 200 Church St, Burlington, VT 05401
>
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Kevin Burke
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2018 4:02 PM
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Brocade SLX Internet Edge
>
>
>
> Does anyone have any success with the Brocade SLX 9540 or similar?  Its
> going to be taking full BGP tables from two Tier1's and some peering.
>
>
>
> The specs and sales rep says its fine, but the price makes me think its
> too good to be true.
>
>
>
> We are trying to shepherd an old Cat 6509 out of our core.
>
>
>
>
>
> Kevin Burke
>
> 802-540-0979
>
> Burlington Telecom - City of Burlington
>
> 200 Church St, Burlington, VT 05401
>

uCPE or SD-WAN Devices with LTE Support

[Colton Conor]

We have been using cradlepoint routers, but we want a device that has the
functionality of a cradlepoint with the ability to run own own applications
naively on Linux. cradlepoint does not allow you to run your own apps on
the device itself eventhogh the newer cradlepoint has a quad core
processor.

Does anyone have recommendations for a UCPE or SD-WAN device that:
cost about what a Cradlepoint cost ($500 to $750)
have built in LTE (or supports a M.2 LTE card)
has at least one Ethernet port
has remote management,
and can load your own application onto?

We could probably build out own with a marker board of some sort and a
Sierra Wireless LTE card, but what linux operating system would be best for
this?

Re: Web UI DHCP Option 82

[Colton Conor]

Mike, I am looking for the same thing. Does Mikrotik have the ability to do
what you are requesting?

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 5:11 PM Ryan Hamel  wrote:

> Mike,
>
> Take a look into Kea from ISC. The config is JSON based, which allows for
> nearly any scripting language to make changes, or you can dig into how it
> works with MySQL for dynamic operation (
> https://kea.isc.org/wiki/HostReservationsHowTo).
>
>
>
> Ryan
>
>
>
> *From:* NANOG  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Friday, August 17, 2018 1:51 PM
> *To:* nanog@nanog.org list 
> *Subject:* Web UI DHCP Option 82
>
>
>
> Are there any web interfaces out there for DHCP servers that accommodate
> management of DHCP option 82 configs? Neither webmin nor Glass seem to
> handle ISC's agent.circuit-id outside of presenting the raw config file. I
> can do that just fine in nano, but I'm looking at something more
> user-friendly so I'm not the only one that can work on it.
>
> I'm also cheap, so not looking at Infoblox or anything like that.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> Midwest-IX
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>

What NMS do you use and why?

[Colton Conor]

We are looking for a new network monitoring system. Since there are so many
operators on this list, I would like to know which NMS do you use and why?
Is there one that you really like, and others that you hate?

For free options (opensouce), LibreNMS and NetXMS come highly recommended
by many wireless ISPs on low budgets. However, I am not sure the commercial
options available nor their price points.

Re: USB Ethernet Adapters

[Colton Conor]

Mario,

Thanks for the recommendation. I am leaning towards the devices with
a Realtek RTL8153 chipset over the devices with the Axis AX88179. I have
more faith in Realtek than AXIS as I have had serveral laptops in the past
with Realtek NIC's, but never a single device with AXIS. Plus Realtek seems
to be more standards based whereas AXIS only supports 4k Jumbo frames?

On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 9:35 PM, Mario Eirea <mei...@charterschoolit.com>
wrote:

> My recommendation was based on the Realtek RTL8153 chipset. It's the only
> USB chip I had found at the time that did VLANs and full gigabit, in
> Windows. I have had this for a while now, I would hope there are more
> things on the market.
>
>
> -ME
> --
> *From:* NANOG <nanog-boun...@nanog.org> on behalf of Colton Conor <
> colton.co...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 14, 2018 9:20 PM
> *To:* NANOG
> *Subject:* Re: USB Ethernet Adapters
>
> Thanks for the responses so far. I am surprised to see the wide array of
> responses. A couple of more things:
>
> 1. I like the ones that have lights on the Ethernet port so you can see if
> the device is up/down. I find that critical as we go to a lot of sites
> where we don't know if the cable is good/bad, so a indication on the lights
> is critical.
> 2. Techs are constantly doing speedtest.net tests on 1Gbps Ethernet
> connections, so ideally an adapter that can constantly push the 1Gbps
> speeds is ideally.
>
> Seems that most of these adapters use a common chipset. Anyone done
> research on which chipset is the best, and why?
>
> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 12:45 PM, Colton Conor <colton.co...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Our new laptops like most do not have an Ethernet adapter build in as
> they
> > are too slim. What USB to Ethernet adapter do you recommend and why?
> > Ideally it would be compatible with Windows 10, and have the ability to
> set
> > speed, duplex and VLAN IDs if possible.
> >
>

Re: USB Ethernet Adapters

[Colton Conor]

Thanks for the responses so far. I am surprised to see the wide array of
responses. A couple of more things:

1. I like the ones that have lights on the Ethernet port so you can see if
the device is up/down. I find that critical as we go to a lot of sites
where we don't know if the cable is good/bad, so a indication on the lights
is critical.
2. Techs are constantly doing speedtest.net tests on 1Gbps Ethernet
connections, so ideally an adapter that can constantly push the 1Gbps
speeds is ideally.

Seems that most of these adapters use a common chipset. Anyone done
research on which chipset is the best, and why?

On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 12:45 PM, Colton Conor <colton.co...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Our new laptops like most do not have an Ethernet adapter build in as they
> are too slim. What USB to Ethernet adapter do you recommend and why?
> Ideally it would be compatible with Windows 10, and have the ability to set
> speed, duplex and VLAN IDs if possible.
>

USB Ethernet Adapters

[Colton Conor]

Our new laptops like most do not have an Ethernet adapter build in as they
are too slim. What USB to Ethernet adapter do you recommend and why?
Ideally it would be compatible with Windows 10, and have the ability to set
speed, duplex and VLAN IDs if possible.

Re: China Showdown Huawei vs ZTE

[Colton Conor]

Saku,

I do feel bad for US Based consumers as I am one of them! Overall, I find
Huawei's solutions to be 1/3 the price of the equivalent Juniper/Cisco. The
only the stopping me from buying them is the fear of it being hacked due to
the media.

Like the S6720-EI is MEF certified, runs MPLS, and is $3500 with a lifetime
warranty. Please let me know if anyone else comes close to this number.

On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 10:31 AM, Saku Ytti <s...@ytti.fi> wrote:

> On 20 April 2018 at 16:44, Colton Conor <colton.co...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes looks like they are both under pressure. I feel bad for the USA based
> > employees. I know Huawei has quite a few in Plano, Texas.
>
> Feel sorry for US based consumers. Historically protectionism always
> hurts the local economy most. By creating artificial demand on local
> products, over time local products become uncompetitive for export.
>
> I wonder, in what fundamental way Cisco and Juniper are US products,
> Huawei and ZTE Chinese products? To me it looks like Cisco has no
> development on IOS-XR outside India, components and assembly is in
> China. Shareholders are people holding Vanguard/Blackrock. What makes
> US company a US company?
>
> --
>   ++ytti
>

Re: China Showdown Huawei vs ZTE

[Colton Conor]

Yes looks like they are both under pressure. I feel bad for the USA based
employees. I know Huawei has quite a few in Plano, Texas.

With both ZTE and Huawei out of the picture for USA operators, who is the
low cost leader in this space then?

On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 7:56 AM, STARNES, CURTIS <
curtis.star...@granburyisd.org> wrote:

> Same for Huawei.
> https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/26/17164226/fcc-proposal-
> huawei-zte-us-networks-national-security
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeanbaptiste/2018/04/19/
> analyst-chinas-huawei-to-quit-u-s-market/#194f570211cb
> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/technology/huawei-trade-war.html
>
> I don't think I would recommend either in todays political climate.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG <nanog-boun...@nanog.org> On Behalf Of Suresh Ramasubramanian
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 7:35 AM
> To: Colton Conor <colton.co...@gmail.com>; NANOG <nanog@nanog.org>
> Subject: Re: China Showdown Huawei vs ZTE
>
> Ah. ZTE is in a spot of trouble right about now.
>
> http://www.scmp.com/tech/article/2142557/zte-calls-us-
> government-ban-extremely-unfair-vows-fight-its-rights
>
> On 20/04/18, 5:58 PM, "NANOG on behalf of Colton Conor" <
> nanog-boun...@nanog.org on behalf of colton.co...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Of the two large Chinese Vendors, which has the better network
> operating
> system? Huawei is much larger that ZTE is my understanding, but larger
> does
> not always mean better.
>
> Both of these manufactures have switches and routers. I doubt we will
> use
> their routing products anytime soon, but the switching products with
> MPLS
> are what we are exploring. Price wise both of these vendors seem to
> have
> 10G MPLS capable switches that are a 1/4 of the price of a Cisco or
> Juniper
> wants to charge.
>
> On the Huawei side looks like the S6720 is a fit.
> On the ZTE side, it looks like the ZXR10 5960 Series is a fit.
>
> Has anyone had experience with either of these two switches? How do
> they
> compare?
>
> Also, for each independent brand, is their switching network operating
> system the same as their routing network operating system that their
> routers run?
>
>
>
>

Re: China Showdown Huawei vs ZTE

[Colton Conor]

Josh,

I like the whitebox route, but I can't find anything that will come close
price wise.

Example, Huawei S6720 with 24 10G ports, 2 40G ports, and full MPLS
operating system from Huawei is $3500 out the door with a lifetime
warranty. I can't even find a whitebox hardware, not even accounting for
the OS, that is close to that price. Most 48 Port 10G with 6 40G uplinks
(so double this huawei unit) are in the $5k range, and then you have to buy
an operating system costing a couple more grand. Choices are limited on
whitebox operating systems that support MPLS.

There might be some FibeStore models that come close to this price, but
FS.com is a Chinese company too, so that's no better than ZTE or Huawei.



On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 7:34 AM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:

> Why not just go the whitebox route and pick your NOS of choice?
>
> Far cheaper, and far more flexible.
>
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 7:28 AM Colton Conor <colton.co...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Of the two large Chinese Vendors, which has the better network operating
>> system? Huawei is much larger that ZTE is my understanding, but larger
>> does
>> not always mean better.
>>
>> Both of these manufactures have switches and routers. I doubt we will use
>> their routing products anytime soon, but the switching products with MPLS
>> are what we are exploring. Price wise both of these vendors seem to have
>> 10G MPLS capable switches that are a 1/4 of the price of a Cisco or
>> Juniper
>> wants to charge.
>>
>> On the Huawei side looks like the S6720 is a fit.
>> On the ZTE side, it looks like the ZXR10 5960 Series is a fit.
>>
>> Has anyone had experience with either of these two switches? How do they
>> compare?
>>
>> Also, for each independent brand, is their switching network operating
>> system the same as their routing network operating system that their
>> routers run?
>>
>

China Showdown Huawei vs ZTE

[Colton Conor]

Of the two large Chinese Vendors, which has the better network operating
system? Huawei is much larger that ZTE is my understanding, but larger does
not always mean better.

Both of these manufactures have switches and routers. I doubt we will use
their routing products anytime soon, but the switching products with MPLS
are what we are exploring. Price wise both of these vendors seem to have
10G MPLS capable switches that are a 1/4 of the price of a Cisco or Juniper
wants to charge.

On the Huawei side looks like the S6720 is a fit.
On the ZTE side, it looks like the ZXR10 5960 Series is a fit.

Has anyone had experience with either of these two switches? How do they
compare?

Also, for each independent brand, is their switching network operating
system the same as their routing network operating system that their
routers run?

Re: Suggestion for Layer 3, all SFP+ switches

[Colton Conor]

Ben,

The Dell options intrigue me. First question is who do you talk to at Dell
about their solutions as most sales guys just seem to know their laptop and
server lines?
How does Dell's pricing compare with Edge-Core. Considering most of the
hardware is the same Broadcom chipset, what are the reasons you went with
Dell over someone like Edge-Core or the other OEM's?
I have looked into   IPInfusion OcNOS and feature wise it looks nice, but
by the time you pay   IPInfusion OcNOS for the software and an OEM for the
hardware the costs adds up to a Cisco/Juniper equalivent model.

Dell seems interesting as I think they include an OS for free, but then you
can load   IPInfusion OcNOS or Cumulus or others onto it if that doesn't
meet your need. You mentioned  FTOS9. Doesn't Dell now have  OS10 version?



On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 8:28 AM, Ben Bartsch <uwcable...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've been testing IPInfusion OcNOS running on Dell Z9100 and S4048.  I've
> run a couple of test cases using MPLS LDP signaled port based and VLAN
> based VPWS (pseudowire / e-line / xconnect / Juniper CCC) and VPLS (e-lan)
> over an OSPFv2 IGP.  It's working well between Dell/IPI to Dell/IPI boxes.
> We have had issues with the VPLS between Dell/IPI to Juniper/JunOS where
> the circuit will show up on the Juniper and down on the Dell.  If we clear
> LDP session on the Dell, it comes back up right away.  This seems to be
> similar to what Aaron is seeing in his multi-vendor environment.  The price
> on the Dell hardware is really good.  The features included with OcNOS are
> much better than FTOS9.  If you aren't partial to Dell, you can run OcNOS
> on a variety of other whitebox switches, like EdgeCore.
>
> I haven't tested MP-BGP and L3VPN or BFD yet, but that is supposedly
> supported in OcNOS as well.
>
> -ben
>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 8:32 PM, Colton Conor <colton.co...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> What is your budget?
>>
>> I know on the low end many operators are using the
>> Huawei S6720S-26Q-EI-24S-AC. You can get these new for $2500 to $3500, and
>> the support all the features and port counts you requested. The also have
>> a
>> lifetime warranty that includes advanced replacement (10 days), TAC
>> support, and software support all for free if you buy through official
>> channels. It support MPLS, and also VXLAN.
>>
>> Extreme seems to have some good options, but I doubt they are that low
>> cost.
>>
>> For Juniper you need to look at the ACX series which is expensive. Like
>> the
>> ACX5048 which list price is $40k not that anyone pays list, and that's
>> before port licenses. The EX series does not have proper MPLS support.
>>
>> Cisco has mutliple options, but mainly the NCS based on your port count I
>> think. Supposely the C3850 and C9500 now support MPLS? There is a new 16
>> port 10G version of the C9500. I haven't looked into Nexus switches. Does
>> Nexus support full MPLS?
>>
>> HPE has some low cost options. In their FlexFabric and FlexNetwork lines
>> that support MPLS in Comware V7.
>>
>> Who else are we missing? MPLS support really cuts down this list, but I
>> agree its a critical feature for most service providers.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 7:26 AM, Giuseppe Spanò - Datacast Srl <
>> sp...@datacast.it> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > we're looking for some L3 switches to be used as distribution devices.
>> > They should have all (at leaast 24) SFP+ ports 10G and at least a
>> couple of
>> > upstream ports 40G capable, but what is most important, they should be
>> able
>> > to run MPLS, EoMPLS and VPLS. Is there any device you would suggest us?
>> We
>> > where thinking about NEXUS but I'm sure there are also others, even if
>> it
>> > is not so easy to find them on the Internet.
>> >
>> > Thank you in advance for your help .
>> >
>> > Giuseppe Spanò
>> > Datacast Srl
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: Suggestion for Layer 3, all SFP+ switches

[Colton Conor]

Yes, there are issues/concerns with using Huawei in the USA, but in the
rest of the world they are the number 2 vendor. Also, $3500 for that box
with lifetime support and warranty (their TAC is in Plano, Texas) vs
$10,000 for an ACX5048 onetime plus at least $1500 a year for JTAC seems
like a big difference! ACX has 48 ports vs 24 in the Huawei, but you have
to licenses each one of the ports on the ACX making the total cost even
higher. Sounds like your ACX cost more than you E7 that its feeding!

On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 11:07 AM, Aaron Gould  wrote:

> Aren't there issues/concerns with Huawei ?
>
> I think we pay about $10k with discounts and about (4) 10 gig port license
> to slow start our deployment of ACX5048's 10 gig east , 10 gig west ,
> dual 10's facing FTTH OLT (Calix E7)
>
> -Aaron
>
>
>

Re: Suggestion for Layer 3, all SFP+ switches

[Colton Conor]

Łukasz,

Out of all those Cisco models, which meets the OP requirements of  " (at
least 24) SFP+ ports 10G and at least a couple of upstream ports 40G
capable" and  a " The budget is around 3000-5000 $ each, possibly. "?

The Nexus 7000's look very large with the smallest being 3U in size, so I
doubt they would meet the budget requirement. The Nexus 9000 series seems
to have 1U versions. Assuming he is fine with using Segmented Routing
instead of LDP, any models that fit the bill price wise? Are there any
Nexus products that are lower cost that the Catalyst   (C3650/3850) and
newer (C9xxx)?

The Catalyst UADP based platforms seem nice, but most are requiring DNA
licensing driving up initial cost.


On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 11:50 AM, Łukasz Bromirski <luk...@bromirski.net>
wrote:

> Colton,
>
> On 19 Apr 2018, at 03:32, Colton Conor <colton.co...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Cisco has mutliple options, but mainly the NCS based on your port count I
> think. Supposely the C3850 and C9500 now support MPLS? There is a new 16
> port 10G version of the C9500. I haven't looked into Nexus switches. Does
> Nexus support full MPLS?
>
>
> UADP based platforms, both older (C3650/3850) and newer (C9xxx) do
> support MPLS encap and VXLAN encap and can be extended in future to
> support others. There are new 9xxx based off UADP 3.0 with 40G and 100G
> ports:
> https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/c
> atalyst-9500-series-switches/datasheet-c78-738978.html
>
> Nexus 7k supports MPLS with LDP while Nexus 9k supports MPLS but
> with SR (IGP) or BGP-LU (no LDP support).
>
> --
> Łukasz Bromirski
> CCIE R/SP #15929, CCDE #2012::17, PGP Key ID: 0xFD077F6A
>
>

Re: Suggestion for Layer 3, all SFP+ switches

[Colton Conor]

What is your budget?

I know on the low end many operators are using the
Huawei S6720S-26Q-EI-24S-AC. You can get these new for $2500 to $3500, and
the support all the features and port counts you requested. The also have a
lifetime warranty that includes advanced replacement (10 days), TAC
support, and software support all for free if you buy through official
channels. It support MPLS, and also VXLAN.

Extreme seems to have some good options, but I doubt they are that low cost.

For Juniper you need to look at the ACX series which is expensive. Like the
ACX5048 which list price is $40k not that anyone pays list, and that's
before port licenses. The EX series does not have proper MPLS support.

Cisco has mutliple options, but mainly the NCS based on your port count I
think. Supposely the C3850 and C9500 now support MPLS? There is a new 16
port 10G version of the C9500. I haven't looked into Nexus switches. Does
Nexus support full MPLS?

HPE has some low cost options. In their FlexFabric and FlexNetwork lines
that support MPLS in Comware V7.

Who else are we missing? MPLS support really cuts down this list, but I
agree its a critical feature for most service providers.




On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 7:26 AM, Giuseppe Spanò - Datacast Srl <
sp...@datacast.it> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> we're looking for some L3 switches to be used as distribution devices.
> They should have all (at leaast 24) SFP+ ports 10G and at least a couple of
> upstream ports 40G capable, but what is most important, they should be able
> to run MPLS, EoMPLS and VPLS. Is there any device you would suggest us? We
> where thinking about NEXUS but I'm sure there are also others, even if it
> is not so easy to find them on the Internet.
>
> Thank you in advance for your help .
>
> Giuseppe Spanò
> Datacast Srl
>

Re: Open Souce Network Operating Systems

[Colton Conor]

Peter,

Thanks for the information. Do you have a recommendation of which
distribution of Linux to use for this? Is there one that is more network
centric than another?

On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Peter Phaal <peter.ph...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:32 AM, Colton Conor <colton.co...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> My understanding if Free Range Routing is a package of software that runs
>> in linux, but not a full and true NOS right?
>>
>
> Why not consider Linux a NOS? Installing Free Range Routing adds control
> plane protocols: BGP, OSPF, ISIS, etc.
>
>
>> I looked into Cumulus Linux, but it seems to only run on the supported
>> hardware which is while box switches. Can you run Cumulus Linux on a X86
>> server with intel NICs? Can you run Cumulus on a raspberry pi?
>>
>
> Cumulus Linux is basically Ubuntu with Free Range Routing pre-installed
> along with a daemon that offloads forwarding from the Linux kernel to an
> ASIC. CumulusVX is a free Cumulus Linux virtual machine that is useful for
> staging / testing configurations since it has the same behavior as the
> hardware switch.
>
> On X86 servers with Intel NICs, just run Linux. Cumulus Host Pack can be
> installed to add Free Range Routing and other Cumulus tools on the server.
> Alternatively, you can choose any Linux control plane, automation, or
> monitoring tools and install them on the hosts and Cumulus Linux switches
> to unify management and control, e.g. Bird, collectd, telegraf, Puppet,
> Chef, Ansible, etc.
>
> Linux distros (including Ubuntu) are available for non-X86 hardware like
> Raspberry Pi etc.
>
>
>>
>> Ideally I think I am looking to a Linux operating system that can run on
>> multiple CPU architectures, has device support for Broadcom and other
>> Merchant silicon switching and wifi adapters.
>
>
> If you consider Linux as the NOS then it already meets these requirements.
>

Re: Open Souce Network Operating Systems

[Colton Conor]

Eron,

Thanks for the advice.

My understanding if Free Range Routing is a package of software that runs
in linux, but not a full and true NOS right?

Is pfSense 3.0 going to be dramatically different that the current version?
I never considered this a NOS but more of a firewall platform with some
routing capabilities.

I looked into Cumulus Linux, but it seems to only run on the supported
hardware which is while box switches. Can you run Cumulus Linux on a X86
server with intel NICs? Can you run Cumulus on a raspberry pi?

Ideally I think I am looking to a Linux operating system that can run on
multiple CPU architectures, has device support for Broadcom and other
Merchant silicon switching and wifi adapters.

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Eron Lloyd <e...@mawcom.com> wrote:

> I would start with following the Free Range Routing project, and related
> but independent (and more tangible) projects like pfSense (esp. the
> upcoming 3.0 release) and Cumulus Linux. Going deeper, perhaps Carrier
> Grade Linux, DPDK, and ONOS (all Linux Foundation projects). I think
> scaling vertically from CPEs to core stack is a stretch, especially if you
> mean a DIY approach, however.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Colton Conor" <colton.co...@gmail.com>
> To: "nanog" <nanog@nanog.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 9:28:13 AM
> Subject: Open Souce Network Operating Systems
>
> If one were to deploy whitebox switches, X86 servers, low cost ARM and
> MIBPS CPE devices, and basically anything that can run linux today, what
> network operating system would you recommend? The goal would be to have a
> universal network operating system that runs across a variety of devices.
> From low cost residential CPE's with wifi to switches to BGP speaking
> routers. Is there anything that can do it all today?
>
>
> I will use something like OpenWRT as an example. I don't consider this
> anywhere near carrier grade, but it runs on X86 and low cost routers. I
> don't think it will run on whitebox switches though.
>
> Mikrotik RouterOS would be another example as it can run on low cost
> Routerboards, and X86 servers. But it is not opensouce.
>
> Is there any up and coming projects to look into?
> --
> Eron Lloyd
> Information Technology Director
> 717-344-5958
> e...@mawcom.com
> MAW Communications, Inc.
>

Open Souce Network Operating Systems

[Colton Conor]

If one were to deploy whitebox switches, X86 servers, low cost ARM and
MIBPS CPE devices, and basically anything that can run linux today, what
network operating system would you recommend? The goal would be to have a
universal network operating system that runs across a variety of devices.
>From low cost residential CPE's with wifi to switches to BGP speaking
routers. Is there anything that can do it all today?


I will use something like OpenWRT as an example. I don't consider this
anywhere near carrier grade, but it runs on X86 and low cost routers. I
don't think it will run on whitebox switches though.

Mikrotik RouterOS would be another example as it can run on low cost
Routerboards, and X86 servers. But it is not opensouce.

Is there any up and coming projects to look into?

Re: DSL CPE

[Colton Conor]

Mike,

You want to look at what Broadcom chipsets are in this DSL CPEs. Broadcom
is the king and leader in the DSL space.

We used the Comtrend 3120 as it has one of the latest Broadcom chipsets on
the market. I know you love to check FCC ID's so this should be helpful for
you: https://wikidevi.com/wiki/Broadcom#xDSL

The Comtrend 3120 uses the BCM63138. Dual core 1Ghz. It makes a difference
even if the mode is in pure bridge mode. There aren't many bonded modems
that don't have wifi built in as the chipset includes wifi.





On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 8:48 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Any particular Zyxel models or just Zyxel in general perform better at
> longer lengths?
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Shawn L" 
> To: "Mike Hammett" 
> Cc: "NANOG" 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 8:22:07 AM
> Subject: RE: DSL CPE
>
>
> At $dayjob we use both Comtrend and Zyxel modems. Both have a 1-port modem
> that can be deployed in bridged mode. They both seem to work well with
> Calix gear. We've found the Zyxel modems tend to work a little better at
> longer loop lengths. But, for us at least, it's very easy to get custom
> firmware created and pre-deployed to comtrend modems at the factory /
> distributor. So we haven't completely decided between one brand and the
> other. We started looking at Zyxel for increased speed at longer loop
> lengths and better wifi support.
>
> There's a company a few exchanges over from us that has deployed the caix
> giga family and really likes it. We haven't deployed them yet because they
> only work on the Calix E7 series (E7-2 and E7-20) and we still have a lot
> of C7 series dslams in the network.
>
> Shawn
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 8:50am
> To: "NANOG" 
> Subject: DSL CPE
>
>
>
> After a few off-list responses (and a couple on) encouraging me to use
> NANOG, here we go...
>
>
> I've recently walked in to a voice\DSL CLEC that has basically been left
> to entropy for the last ten years. A lot of the core systems just work, but
> a lot of things aren't exactly managed the best. They run a Calix\Occam
> ADSL2+\VDSL infrastructure. For those of you doing DSL, what CPE are you
> using? I'm looking at one that's just a basic modem where I have a more
> sophisticated router (or ATA\voice gateway) behind it and then one more
> generic for residential settings with WiFi and all that jazz. We're kinda
> debating whether we go just dumb Wi-Fi or something more advanced\powerful.
> I've heard a lot of good about the Calix GigaFamily in that regard.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> Midwest-IX
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
>
>

Re: Any experience with FS hardware out there?

[Colton Conor]

Where do you get wholesale pricing from Edgecore? Simple google searches
only bring up
https://bm-switch.com/index.php/edge-core-as7712-32x-100g-bm-switch-preloaded-with-onie.html


On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 1:19 PM, Hugo Slabbert  wrote:

>
> On Fri 2018-Jan-05 12:50:42 -0600, Bryan Holloway  wrote:
>
> Fiberstore is rolling out some CRAZY cheap 100Gbps switches, and I'm
>> curious if anyone in the community has any thoughts or real-life world
>> experience with them.
>>
>> E.g.: https://www.fs.com/products/69340.html
>>
>> For the price point, it's almost in the "too good to be true" category.
>>
>
> The price is on par with the hardware cost of other whitebox Tomahawks,
> e.g. Edge-Core 32x100G models like the AS7712 or AS7716 that also runs the
> BCM56960, so the primary distinction seems to be that you get a NOS
> included in that price.  I have zero experience with Broadcom's ICOS as
> opposed to the other options on the market, so it seems to be a question of
> whether you're happy with that or would be e.g. paying Cumulus or $vendor a
> few K USD for a license for their NOS on it.
>
>
> Naturally it claims to support an impressive range of features including
>> BGP, IS-IS, OSPF, MPLS, VRFs, blah blah blah.
>>
>> There was an earlier discussion about packet buffer issues, but, assuming
>> for a second that it's not an issue, can anyone say they've used these
>> and/or the L2/L3 features that they purportedly support?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> - bryan
>>
>>
> --
> Hugo Slabbert   | email, xmpp/jabber: h...@slabnet.com
> pgp key: B178313E   | also on Signal
>

Re: DSL Operators Mailing List?

[Colton Conor]

Mike,

Lots of people on this list have DSL experience. What are you looking for?

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 8:21 AM, James Bensley  wrote:

> On 7 January 2018 at 17:10, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> > Is there a good mailing list for DSL operators? A cursory search really
> only came up with DSL Reports, which is far from what I'm looking for.
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> I only know of the https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-bba
> list. It is Cisco specific list and very low volume (see the archives)
> however, people might not mind you talking about DSL operations in
> general as long as it isn't specific to another vendor.
>
> Cheers,
> James.
>

Re: Arista Layer3

[Colton Conor]

Jared,

Which Arista box do you use for FTTH features? Whats the cost like as FTTH
boxes are usually inexpensive, and Arista is not know to be inexpensive
compared to something like Calix or Adtran.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Jared Mauch  wrote:

>
>
> > On Nov 30, 2017, at 2:17 PM, Ken Chase  wrote:
> >
> > Back to this discussion! :) Arista as a viable full-table PE router. Was
> hoping
> > for better experience reports since last mention.
> >
> > To make the Q bit more general, are there any PE routers yet that can
> handle 3-8
> > full feeds and use an amp and 1U or so instead of 5 and 4U? Or we're ito
> whitebox/
> > open routers still for that (bird/openbgp?) or microtiks?
>
> The 7280 is likely what you’re looking at.  Lots of folks also use
> MikroTik as well if
> the traffic is in the 1G range or so.
>
> I for one use Arista for Layer3 for FTTH purposes as it gives me good
> software/hardware
> support for my features.
>
> - Jared

Re: Application Layer Gateways

[Colton Conor]

So you do recommend we disable them all? Just not sure why big vendors like
Alcatel and Comtrend would have them enabled by default if they do more
harm than good?

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 11:02 PM, Ca By <cb.li...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 8:12 PM Colton Conor <colton.co...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Working with an ISP, we recently deployed Comtrend VDSL routers, and
>> Alcatel-Lucent GPON ONTs. Both of these devices uses chipsets made by
>> Broadcom, and as such probably use the same underlying Broadcom operating
>> system if I had to guess. They are different chipsets though as one is
>> from
>> VDSL2, and the other for GPON
>>
>> By default, the Comtrend had the following Firewall -- ALG/Pass-Throughs
>> enabled:
>>
>> FTP
>> H323
>> IPSec
>> IRC
>> PPTP
>> RTSP
>> SIP
>> TFTP
>>
>> On the Acatel-Lucent (Nokia) ONT, the following came enabled by default
>> from the factory:
>>
>> FTP
>> H323
>> IPSEC
>> L2TP
>> PPTP
>> RTSP
>> SIP
>> TFTP
>>
>>
>> The only difference between these two is the Comtrend has an IRC as a ALG,
>> and Acatel has L2TP as a protocol type. The other seven ALG protocols as
>> the same.
>>
>> My question is in general, is it a good idea to disable all Application
>> Layer Gateways?
>>
>
> Yes. ALG are frequently too smart for their own good.
>
>
>
>> The only ALG I have had experience with was a SIP ALG. Almost all SIP
>> providers strongly recommend you disable SIP ALGs as it does more harm and
>> breaks more things than it does good, so we always disable SIP ALG. But
>> what about the other protocols on these two? Do you think they should be
>> enabled or disabled by default?
>>
>> I am leaning towards disabling them all for our standard config.
>>
>

Application Layer Gateways

[Colton Conor]

Working with an ISP, we recently deployed Comtrend VDSL routers, and
Alcatel-Lucent GPON ONTs. Both of these devices uses chipsets made by
Broadcom, and as such probably use the same underlying Broadcom operating
system if I had to guess. They are different chipsets though as one is from
VDSL2, and the other for GPON

By default, the Comtrend had the following Firewall -- ALG/Pass-Throughs
enabled:

FTP
H323
IPSec
IRC
PPTP
RTSP
SIP
TFTP

On the Acatel-Lucent (Nokia) ONT, the following came enabled by default
from the factory:

FTP
H323
IPSEC
L2TP
PPTP
RTSP
SIP
TFTP


The only difference between these two is the Comtrend has an IRC as a ALG,
and Acatel has L2TP as a protocol type. The other seven ALG protocols as
the same.

My question is in general, is it a good idea to disable all Application
Layer Gateways?

The only ALG I have had experience with was a SIP ALG. Almost all SIP
providers strongly recommend you disable SIP ALGs as it does more harm and
breaks more things than it does good, so we always disable SIP ALG. But
what about the other protocols on these two? Do you think they should be
enabled or disabled by default?

I am leaning towards disabling them all for our standard config.

Creating a Circuit ID Format

[Colton Conor]

We are building a new fiber network, and need help creating a circuit ID
format to for new fiber circuits. Is there a guide or standard for fiber
circuit formats? Does the circuit ID change when say a customer upgrades
for 100Mbps to 1Gbps port?

What do the larger carriers do? Any advice on creating a circuit ID format
for a brand new fiber network?


 Originally we ran a CLEC using a LECs copper, and our circuit ID was
historically a telephone number for DSL circuits. The ILEC had a complex
method for assigning circuit IDs.

I am sure anything will work as long as you keep track of it, but any
advice would be great!

Re: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics

[Colton Conor]

Besides FS.com and http://www.beetlefiberoptics.com, do you have any more
recommendations for passive muxes? I usually stick to and like FiberStore,
but I am wondering if there is anything out there better/cheaper.

One of the things I am noticing is the CWDM and DWDM SFP+ optics are quite
expensive at  $250 for CWDM and $350 for DWDM. I guess it shouldn't be
cheap to send 10G around a ring, but I am wondering what transponders cost.

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 3:55 AM, Jeroen Wunnink <jeroen.wunn...@gtt.net>
wrote:

> Another alternative is to ask the http://www.beetlefiberoptics.com guys.
> They build muxes on spec and they can also provide a 1310nm wide-band port
> on their units which allows a 40/100G-LR4 aside from the 1550nm DWDM band.
>
> We’ve used some simple splitters (line/1310nm LR4/1550nm DWDM ports on a
> unit) and full passive DWDM muxes with a 40/100G-LR4 port on there and
> these work pretty good.
>
>
>
>
> Jeroen Wunnink
> IP Engineering manager
> office: +31.208.200.622 ext. 1011
> Amsterdam Office
> www.gtt.net <http://www.gtt.net/>
>
>
>
>
> On 20/06/2017, 01:14, "NANOG on behalf of Colton Conor" <
> nanog-boun...@nanog.org on behalf of colton.co...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Do you have any idea if fiberstore has one with both a monitor and 1310
> wideband port? I would want both.
>
> Seeing as how they don't charge extra for an expansion port, but do for
> other special ports I am thinking of just using the expansion port.
>
> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <
> fai...@snappytelecom.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > >>From the sounds of it, no one knows the real difference between the
> > expansion port, 1310 port, and 1550 port
> >
> > Hmm.. not sure how you are reading this...
> > I believe that there is no 'standard' and as such the actual filter
> on the
> > mux/demux you are using may vary by mfg.
> > I can confirm what is an expansion port... (pass everything thru
> that is
> > not being filtered by the mux/demux )
> > I can also confirm that Fiberstore 1310nm port (not to be confused
> with
> > the CWDM 1310 port) will pass all 4 wavelengths for 40g/100g optics.
> > I don't have experience with the 1550nm port.
> >
> > >>For real world applications, I would assume the monitor port would
> be to
> > plug in a handheld meter, and see which channels are coming through
> that
> > node without breaking the ring.
> >
> > Correct that is what it is designed for. it allows a fraction of
> >  light (I am guessing would also cause an increase in insertion loss
> > figure).
> >
> > >> Not sure if their would be a monitor port for both directions is
> you
> > were using a OADM?
> > If you look at the OADM's e.g. like a Cisco CWDM OADM with monitor
> ports,
> > you will see that they are on both sides east & west.
> >
> >
> > Regards.
> >
>     >
> > Faisal Imtiaz
> > Snappy Internet & Telecom
> > 7266 SW 48 Street
> > Miami, FL 33155
> > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <(305)%20663-5518>
> >
> > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email:
> > supp...@snappytelecom.net
> >
> > --
> >
> > *From: *"Colton Conor" <colton.co...@gmail.com>
> > *To: *"Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
> > *Cc: *"Mike Hammett" <na...@ics-il.net>, "Luke Guillory" <
> > lguill...@reservetele.com>, "nanog list" <nanog@nanog.org>
> > *Sent: *Monday, June 19, 2017 4:14:19 PM
> >
> > *Subject: *Re: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics
> >
> > Thanks for the answers. From the sounds of it, no one knows the real
> > difference between the expansion port, 1310 port, and 1550 port. For
> real
> > world applications, I would assume the monitor port would be to plug
> in a
> > handheld meter, and see which channels are coming through that node
> without
> > breaking the ring. Not sure if their would be a monitor port for both
> > directions is you were using a OADM?
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <
> fai...@snappytelecom.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Answers in-line ...
> >>
> >> Faisal Imtiaz
> >> Snappy Internet & T

Re: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics

[Colton Conor]

Do you have any idea if fiberstore has one with both a monitor and 1310
wideband port? I would want both.

Seeing as how they don't charge extra for an expansion port, but do for
other special ports I am thinking of just using the expansion port.

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
wrote:

>
> >>From the sounds of it, no one knows the real difference between the
> expansion port, 1310 port, and 1550 port
>
> Hmm.. not sure how you are reading this...
> I believe that there is no 'standard' and as such the actual filter on the
> mux/demux you are using may vary by mfg.
> I can confirm what is an expansion port... (pass everything thru that is
> not being filtered by the mux/demux )
> I can also confirm that Fiberstore 1310nm port (not to be confused with
> the CWDM 1310 port) will pass all 4 wavelengths for 40g/100g optics.
> I don't have experience with the 1550nm port.
>
> >>For real world applications, I would assume the monitor port would be to
> plug in a handheld meter, and see which channels are coming through that
> node without breaking the ring.
>
> Correct that is what it is designed for. it allows a fraction of
>  light (I am guessing would also cause an increase in insertion loss
> figure).
>
> >> Not sure if their would be a monitor port for both directions is you
> were using a OADM?
> If you look at the OADM's e.g. like a Cisco CWDM OADM with monitor ports,
> you will see that they are on both sides east & west.
>
>
> Regards.
>
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <(305)%20663-5518>
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email:
> supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Colton Conor" <colton.co...@gmail.com>
> *To: *"Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
> *Cc: *"Mike Hammett" <na...@ics-il.net>, "Luke Guillory" <
> lguill...@reservetele.com>, "nanog list" <nanog@nanog.org>
> *Sent: *Monday, June 19, 2017 4:14:19 PM
>
> *Subject: *Re: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics
>
> Thanks for the answers. From the sounds of it, no one knows the real
> difference between the expansion port, 1310 port, and 1550 port. For real
> world applications, I would assume the monitor port would be to plug in a
> handheld meter, and see which channels are coming through that node without
> breaking the ring. Not sure if their would be a monitor port for both
> directions is you were using a OADM?
>
> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Answers in-line ...
>>
>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>> Miami, FL 33155
>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <(305)%20663-5518>
>>
>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email:
>> supp...@snappytelecom.net
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Colton Conor" <colton.co...@gmail.com>
>> *To: *"Mike Hammett" <na...@ics-il.net>
>> *Cc: *"Luke Guillory" <lguill...@reservetele.com>, "nanog list" <
>> nanog@nanog.org>, "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
>> *Sent: *Monday, June 19, 2017 3:30:37 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics
>>
>> I guess that is the real question. Besides the client ports that are
>> clearly identified by channel number on Muxes, what channels can the
>> special ports handle?
>> http://www.fs.com/products/43723.html It has 4 special service port
>> options:
>>
>> 1. Expansion Port (Based on what I am seeing, I think this would be to
>> stack another mux if you needed more channels. So I assume it allows all
>> channels to be added besides the client channels?)
>>
>>
>> Exactly... this is basically a  pass thru port, i.e. what is not getting
>> mux/demux should get passed thru (keep the insertion loss in mind).
>>
>> 2. Monitor Port (I think this is just a tap that you would hook a monitor
>> up to, and be able to see all channels coming through with a meter. I
>> assume not a good idea to add/drop channels through this port)?
>>
>> I don't use this port, but supposedly it will pass a fraction 5%  of the
>> light from the main port so that it can be monitored. May be someone else
>> can offer some practical use for this port.
>>
>> 3. 1310nm Port (Labeled as 1310, but clearly allows more than just 1310
>> s

Re: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics

[Colton Conor]

Luke,

I agree, I would be talking about getting one with the 1310NM special port
for the QSFP+ input that emitts 1270-1330nm light, and then say 4 client
ports on different channels than that light range.

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, Luke Guillory <lguill...@reservetele.com>
wrote:

> If their 1310 passes them I would have to think you can't use is with
> other client ports that would fall within the window. Here is a graph
> showing those 4 for the 40g it seems.
>
> http://public-wordpress-kkc.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/
> uploads/2014/07/Graph1.jpg
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces+lguillory=reservetele@nanog.org] On
> Behalf Of Colton Conor
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 3:32 PM
> To: Mike Hammett
> Cc: nanog list
> Subject: Re: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics
>
> I guess that makes sense. The plus or minus some is the question. FS is
> claiming their 1310 port support QSFP+, which is 1270, 1290, 1310, and 1330
> combined. I understand you can us 1310, but I am still scratching my head
> as to how they all one minus and two above 1310 to work. Of course they
> don't have any datasheets to show the range either.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 3:17 PM, Mike Hammett <na...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
> > I'd imagine they vary based on vendor, so you'd have to check with the
> > specific vendor in terms of absolute technical specifications.
> >
> > A 1310 and 1550 port only allow those channels plus or minus some,
> > manufacturer dependent.
> > An expansion port passes everything not used by that device.
> >
> > Some manufacturers are even configurable pre-order, so you could get
> > exactly what you needed (other than multiple 40G channels).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > http://www.ics-il.com
> >
> > Midwest-IX
> > http://www.midwest-ix.com
> >
> > - Original Message -
> >
> > From: "Colton Conor" <colton.co...@gmail.com>
> > To: "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
> > Cc: "Mike Hammett" <na...@ics-il.net>, "Luke Guillory" <
> > lguill...@reservetele.com>, "nanog list" <nanog@nanog.org>
> > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 3:14:19 PM
> > Subject: Re: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the answers. From the sounds of it, no one knows the real
> > difference between the expansion port, 1310 port, and 1550 port. For
> > real world applications, I would assume the monitor port would be to
> > plug in a handheld meter, and see which channels are coming through
> > that node without breaking the ring. Not sure if their would be a
> > monitor port for both directions is you were using a OADM?
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <
> > fai...@snappytelecom.net
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Answers in-line ...
> >
> >
> > Faisal Imtiaz
> > Snappy Internet & Telecom
> > 7266 SW 48 Street
> > Miami, FL 33155
> > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> >
> > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> > From: "Colton Conor" < colton.co...@gmail.com >
> > To: "Mike Hammett" < na...@ics-il.net >
> > Cc: "Luke Guillory" < lguill...@reservetele.com >, "nanog list" <
> > nanog@nanog.org >, "Faisal Imtiaz" < fai...@snappytelecom.net >
> > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 3:30:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > I guess that is the real question. Besides the client ports that are
> > clearly identified by channel number on Muxes, what channels can the
> > special ports handle?
> >
> > http://www.fs.com/products/43723.html It has 4 special service port
> > options:
> >
> > 1. Expansion Port (Based on what I am seeing, I think this would be to
> > stack another mux if you needed more channels. So I assume it allows
> > all channels to be added besides the client channels?) 
> >
> >
> >
> > Exactly... this is basically a pass thru port, i.e. what is not
> > getting mux/demux should get passed thru (keep the insertion loss in
> mind).
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> > 2. Monitor Port (I think this is just a tap that you would hook a
> > monitor up to, and be able to see all channel

Re: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics

[Colton Conor]

I guess that makes sense. The plus or minus some is the question. FS is
claiming their 1310 port support QSFP+, which is 1270, 1290, 1310, and 1330
combined. I understand you can us 1310, but I am still scratching my head
as to how they all one minus and two above 1310 to work. Of course they
don't have any datasheets to show the range either.



On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 3:17 PM, Mike Hammett <na...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> I'd imagine they vary based on vendor, so you'd have to check with the
> specific vendor in terms of absolute technical specifications.
>
> A 1310 and 1550 port only allow those channels plus or minus some,
> manufacturer dependent.
> An expansion port passes everything not used by that device.
>
> Some manufacturers are even configurable pre-order, so you could get
> exactly what you needed (other than multiple 40G channels).
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> Midwest-IX
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Colton Conor" <colton.co...@gmail.com>
> To: "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
> Cc: "Mike Hammett" <na...@ics-il.net>, "Luke Guillory" <
> lguill...@reservetele.com>, "nanog list" <nanog@nanog.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 3:14:19 PM
> Subject: Re: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics
>
>
> Thanks for the answers. From the sounds of it, no one knows the real
> difference between the expansion port, 1310 port, and 1550 port. For real
> world applications, I would assume the monitor port would be to plug in a
> handheld meter, and see which channels are coming through that node without
> breaking the ring. Not sure if their would be a monitor port for both
> directions is you were using a OADM?
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Faisal Imtiaz < fai...@snappytelecom.net
> > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Answers in-line ...
>
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: "Colton Conor" < colton.co...@gmail.com >
> To: "Mike Hammett" < na...@ics-il.net >
> Cc: "Luke Guillory" < lguill...@reservetele.com >, "nanog list" <
> nanog@nanog.org >, "Faisal Imtiaz" < fai...@snappytelecom.net >
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 3:30:37 PM
> Subject: Re: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> I guess that is the real question. Besides the client ports that are
> clearly identified by channel number on Muxes, what channels can the
> special ports handle?
>
> http://www.fs.com/products/43723.html It has 4 special service port
> options:
>
> 1. Expansion Port (Based on what I am seeing, I think this would be to
> stack another mux if you needed more channels. So I assume it allows all
> channels to be added besides the client channels?)
> 
>
>
>
> Exactly... this is basically a pass thru port, i.e. what is not getting
> mux/demux should get passed thru (keep the insertion loss in mind).
>
>
> 
>
>
> 2. Monitor Port (I think this is just a tap that you would hook a monitor
> up to, and be able to see all channels coming through with a meter. I
> assume not a good idea to add/drop channels through this port)?
> 
>
>
>
> I don't use this port, but supposedly it will pass a fraction 5% of the
> light from the main port so that it can be monitored. May be someone else
> can offer some practical use for this port.
> 
>
>
> 3. 1310nm Port (Labeled as 1310, but clearly allows more than just 1310
> since tutorial is saying it supports QSFP+ which is 1270 - 1330 nm, so what
> range does it really support or is there no a range?)
> 
>
> Not sure about the range question, but this is the port for having the
> 40g/100g QSFP+ pass thru
>
>
> 
>
>
> 4. 1550nm Port (Labeled as 1550nm, but I wonder if its like the 1330nm?)
>
>
> 
>
> I have not had the need to explore this in detail, but from my initial
> understanding, this can be used for ZR (long range optics) and or to stack
> a DWDM Mux
>
>
> 
>
>
> Would you recommend a monitor port on every mux you buy?
>
>
> 
>
> As I shared above, I don't.
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 2:18 PM, Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote:
>
> 
>
>
> Verify pass-through frequencies for the 1310 (or equivalent) for the
> passive mux in question. This would only work for a single chan

Re: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics

[Colton Conor]

Thanks for the answers. From the sounds of it, no one knows the real
difference between the expansion port, 1310 port, and 1550 port. For real
world applications, I would assume the monitor port would be to plug in a
handheld meter, and see which channels are coming through that node without
breaking the ring. Not sure if their would be a monitor port for both
directions is you were using a OADM?

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
wrote:

> Answers in-line ...
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <(305)%20663-5518>
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email:
> supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Colton Conor" <colton.co...@gmail.com>
> *To: *"Mike Hammett" <na...@ics-il.net>
> *Cc: *"Luke Guillory" <lguill...@reservetele.com>, "nanog list" <
> nanog@nanog.org>, "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
> *Sent: *Monday, June 19, 2017 3:30:37 PM
> *Subject: *Re: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics
>
> I guess that is the real question. Besides the client ports that are
> clearly identified by channel number on Muxes, what channels can the
> special ports handle?
> http://www.fs.com/products/43723.html It has 4 special service port
> options:
>
> 1. Expansion Port (Based on what I am seeing, I think this would be to
> stack another mux if you needed more channels. So I assume it allows all
> channels to be added besides the client channels?)
>
>
> Exactly... this is basically a  pass thru port, i.e. what is not getting
> mux/demux should get passed thru (keep the insertion loss in mind).
>
> 2. Monitor Port (I think this is just a tap that you would hook a monitor
> up to, and be able to see all channels coming through with a meter. I
> assume not a good idea to add/drop channels through this port)?
>
>
> I don't use this port, but supposedly it will pass a fraction 5%  of the
> light from the main port so that it can be monitored. May be someone else
> can offer some practical use for this port.
>
> 3. 1310nm Port (Labeled as 1310, but clearly allows more than just 1310
> since tutorial is saying it supports QSFP+ which is 1270 - 1330 nm, so what
> range does it really support or is there no a range?)
>
> Not sure about the range question, but this is the port for having the
> 40g/100g QSFP+ pass thru
>
> 4. 1550nm Port (Labeled as 1550nm, but I wonder if its like the 1330nm?)
>
> I have not had the need to explore this in detail, but from my initial
> understanding, this can be used for ZR (long range optics) and or to stack
> a DWDM Mux
>
> Would you recommend a monitor port on every mux you buy?
>
> As I shared above, I don't.
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 2:18 PM, Mike Hammett <na...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
>> Verify pass-through frequencies for the 1310 (or equivalent) for the
>> passive mux in question. This would only work for a single channel.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>> Midwest-IX
>> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>>
>> --
>> *From: *"Luke Guillory" <lguill...@reservetele.com>
>> *To: *"Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net>, "Colton Conor" <
>> colton.co...@gmail.com>
>> *Cc: *"nanog list" <nanog@nanog.org>
>> *Sent: *Monday, June 19, 2017 2:13:10 PM
>> *Subject: *RE: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics
>>
>>
>> Faisal,
>>
>> How would he inject his current 4x10 40g into the mux which is currently
>> on a single LC cable?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Luke Guillory
>> Network Operations Manager
>>
>> Tel:985.536.1212 <(985)%20536-1212>
>> Fax:985.536.0300 <(985)%20536-0300>
>> Email:  lguill...@reservetele.com
>>
>> Reserve Telecommunications
>> 100 RTC Dr
>> Reserve, LA 70084
>>
>> 
>> _
>>
>> Disclaimer:
>> The information transmitted, including attachments, is intended only for
>> the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and may contain
>> confidential and/or privileged material which should not disseminate,
>> distribute or be copied. Please notify Luke Guillory immediately by e-mail
>> if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from
>> y

Re: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics

[Colton Conor]

Mike,

Have any suggestion on a meter for CWDM and DWDM that is low cost?

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 2:45 PM, Mike Hammett <na...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> Verify the wavelengths passed by the 1310 port. Verify the wavelengths
> used by his existing 40G optic. Plug the 40G optic into the 1310 port.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> Midwest-IX
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Luke Guillory" <lguill...@reservetele.com>
> To: "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
> Cc: "nanog list" <nanog@nanog.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 2:39:00 PM
> Subject: RE: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics
>
> And how would he pass his current 40g through that mux? Unless I'm
> misreading your email which I took as he can use his current setup along
> with a 40g 1310, though I'm thinking you're saying he can use 1310 40g with
> colored up 10gs alongside of it.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: Faisal Imtiaz [mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net]
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 2:27 PM
> To: Luke Guillory
> Cc: Colton Conor; nanog list
> Subject: Re: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics
>
> Bench test of the system, with the muxes...
>
> sorry for the large pictures :)
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> - Original Message -
> > From: "Luke Guillory" <lguill...@reservetele.com>
> > To: "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net>, "Colton Conor"
> > <colton.co...@gmail.com>
> > Cc: "nanog list" <nanog@nanog.org>
> > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 3:13:10 PM
> > Subject: RE: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics
>
> > Faisal,
> >
> > How would he inject his current 4x10 40g into the mux which is
> > currently on a single LC cable?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Luke Guillory
> > Network Operations Manager
> >
> > Tel: 985.536.1212
> > Fax: 985.536.0300
> > Email: lguill...@reservetele.com
> >
> > Reserve Telecommunications
> > 100 RTC Dr
> > Reserve, LA 70084
> >
> > __
> > ___
> >
> > Disclaimer:
> > The information transmitted, including attachments, is intended only
> > for the
> > person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and may contain
> > confidential and/or privileged material which should not disseminate,
> > distribute or be copied. Please notify Luke Guillory immediately by
> > e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this
> > e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to
> > be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted,
> > corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain
> > viruses. Luke Guillory therefore does not accept liability for any
> > errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a
> result of e-mail transmission. .
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Faisal
> > Imtiaz
> > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 2:02 PM
> > To: Colton Conor
> > Cc: nanog list
> > Subject: Re: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics
> >
> > Answers in-line below.
> >
> >
> >
> > If you look at the CWDM Muxes (8 or 9 channel) you will notice a
> > common configuration of
> >
> > Upgrade Port (expansion port) + 1450 or 1470 to 1610nm
> >
> > in the DWDM muxes you will see them listed as # of Port + 1310 pass thru
> > channel.
> >
> > These are exactly what you are looking for . :)
>
>

Re: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics

[Colton Conor]

I guess that is the real question. Besides the client ports that are
clearly identified by channel number on Muxes, what channels can the
special ports handle?

http://www.fs.com/products/43723.html It has 4 special service port options:

1. Expansion Port (Based on what I am seeing, I think this would be to
stack another mux if you needed more channels. So I assume it allows all
channels to be added besides the client channels?)
2. Monitor Port (I think this is just a tap that you would hook a monitor
up to, and be able to see all channels coming through with a meter. I
assume not a good idea to add/drop channels through this port)?
3. 1310nm Port (Labeled as 1310, but clearly allows more than just 1310
since tutorial is saying it supports QSFP+ which is 1270 - 1330 nm, so what
range does it really support or is there no a range?)
4. 1550nm Port (Labeled as 1550nm, but I wonder if its like the 1330nm?)


Would you recommend a monitor port on every mux you buy?



On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 2:18 PM, Mike Hammett <na...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> Verify pass-through frequencies for the 1310 (or equivalent) for the
> passive mux in question. This would only work for a single channel.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> Midwest-IX
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
> --
> *From: *"Luke Guillory" <lguill...@reservetele.com>
> *To: *"Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net>, "Colton Conor" <
> colton.co...@gmail.com>
> *Cc: *"nanog list" <nanog@nanog.org>
> *Sent: *Monday, June 19, 2017 2:13:10 PM
> *Subject: *RE: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics
>
>
> Faisal,
>
> How would he inject his current 4x10 40g into the mux which is currently
> on a single LC cable?
>
>
>
>
>
> Luke Guillory
> Network Operations Manager
>
> Tel:985.536.1212 <(985)%20536-1212>
> Fax:985.536.0300 <(985)%20536-0300>
> Email:  lguill...@reservetele.com
>
> Reserve Telecommunications
> 100 RTC Dr
> Reserve, LA 70084
>
> 
> _
>
> Disclaimer:
> The information transmitted, including attachments, is intended only for
> the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and may contain
> confidential and/or privileged material which should not disseminate,
> distribute or be copied. Please notify Luke Guillory immediately by e-mail
> if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from
> your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or
> error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed,
> arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Luke Guillory therefore does
> not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this
> message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. .
>
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 2:02 PM
> To: Colton Conor
> Cc: nanog list
> Subject: Re: DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics
>
> Answers in-line below.
>
>
>
> If you  look at the CWDM Muxes (8 or 9 channel) you will notice a common
> configuration of
>
> Upgrade Port (expansion port)  + 1450 or 1470 to 1610nm
>
> in the DWDM muxes you will see  them listed as # of Port + 1310 pass
> thru channel.
>
> These are exactly what you are looking for . :)
>
>
>

DWDM Mux/Demux using 40G Optics

[Colton Conor]

We are building a 40G metro ring using 40-Gigabit Ethernet QSFP+
Transceivers. Specifically, we are using Juniper JNP-QSFP-40G-LR4. This is
a QSFP+ Transceiver with a LC duplex head. We only have one pair of single
mode dark fibers around the ring.  Our distance between nodes around the
ring are all less than 10KM, so we can use standard optics.

We go out of one JNP-QSFP-40G-LR4 and into another JNP-QSFP-40G-LR4. There
are no passive muxes involved. This is working great for 40G.

My understanding is a JNP-QSFP-40G-LR4 is really a transceiver with a CWDM
mux built into it. The spec sheet shows it sends 4 10G channels:

https://www.juniper.net/documentation/en_US/release-independent/junos/topics/reference/specifications/optical-interface-qfx-support.html

Lane wavelength
Lane 0–1264.5 nm through 1277.5 nm
Lane 1–1284.5 nm through 1297.5 nm
Lane 2–1304.5 nm through 1317.5 nm
Lane 3–1324.5 nm through 1337.5  nm


This setup is working fine, but now we want to do more than 40G around the
ring. To my knowledge there are no other 40G QSFP+ transceivers that use
four other channel/lanes than the ones already being used, so they only way
to go higher than 40G is to stack 10G or 100G channels ontop of the fiber
pair using a passive mux.

100G is too expensive for the time being, so we are looking to add 10G
channels to a ring that already have one 40G channel using the QSFP+.

I was reading this tutorial, and it mentions "there is a 1310 nm port
integrated in a 40 channels DWDM Mux/Demux system. The 1310nm added port is
a Wide Band Optic port (WBO) added to other specific DWDM wavelengths in a
module. When we run out of all channels in a DWDM Mux/Demux system, we can
add the extra optics via this 1310nm port."
http://www.fs.com/upgrade-to-500g-with-40ch-dwdm-mux-demux-system-aid-493.html

What I can't seem to understand is they are mentioning that this 1310 port
can pass QSFP+ signals, so it sounds like its really a 1270nm through
1330nm port? Is this what they mean by   Wide Band Optic port (WBO)?

We don't need 40 10G channels plus a 40G for a total of 440G. More than
likely we are looking at a 8 channel mux/demux, and 1 40G port for a total
of 120G.

I don't care if we do CWDM vs DWDM, but I assume it will be hard to find a
CWDM mux that has one LC dupluex input for  1270nm through 1330nm channels?

Maybe I should just ditch the 40G QSFP+ optics and use all 10G optics, but
the switches I am using have 48 10G SFP+ ports and 6 QSFP+ ports built in.
I know there are 40G breakout cables, but the whole point of 40G is to
aggregate VLAN/circuits.

Has anyone done this before?

Re: SD-WAN for enlightened

[Colton Conor]

What I don't understand is how do all these newer, SD-WAN vendors, differ
from any of the managed FireWall companies that have nice pretty GUI's and
web management? For example, Sophos, Meraki, Fortinet, and the other large
firewall vendors that do dual wan, virus filtering, remote management, etc?



On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 1:19 PM, Stefan <netfort...@gmail.com> wrote:

> As of this announcement:
>
> http://investor.cisco.com/investor-relations/news-and-
> events/news/news-details/2017/Cisco-Announces-Intent-to-
> Acquire-Viptela/default.aspx
>
> there will be one less than before :-)
>
> Seriously - when I first learned about them, upon service inclusion of the
> Viptela products into the VzB SD-WAN offering, they (Viptela -
> http://blog.ipspace.net/2014/11/viptela-sen-hybrid-wan-connectivity.html)
> looked very nice, already, as standalone products. And that was a few years
> back.
>
> ***Stefan
>
> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 12:44 PM, Doug Marschke <d...@sdnessentials.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Too many to list.  I don’t know who is “winning” in market share right
>> now, as I am sure each vendor tracks their wins differently.
>>
>> There are definitely a few making more noise than others.
>>
>> Doug Marschke
>>
>> CTO
>>
>>  <http://www.sdnessentials.com> www.sdnessentials.com
>>
>> JNCIE-SP #41, JNCIE-ENT #3
>>
>> 415-902-5702 (cell)
>>
>> 415-340-3112 (office)
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Colton Conor [mailto:colton.co...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 6:26 PM
>> To: Doug Marschke <d...@sdnessentials.com>
>> Cc: Kasper Adel <karim.a...@gmail.com>; NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org>
>> Subject: Re: SD-WAN for enlightened
>>
>>
>>
>> So who are the big SD-WAN players out there?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Doug Marschke <d...@sdnessentials.com
>> <mailto:d...@sdnessentials.com> > wrote:
>>
>> Hello Kasper,
>>
>> I will do my best to answer your SD-WAN question, but as you mentioned it
>> is a buzzword that has a bit of confusion in its definitions.  I would say
>> that a SD-WAN solution should have the following elements:
>>
>> 1.) Ability to manage multiple WAN connection and choose the path based
>> on user and machine criteria (The Hybrid WAN)
>> 2.) A controller to manage the polices and operations of the SD-WAN
>> devices
>> 3.) Analytics on the network and application level
>> 4.) A software overlay that abstracts and secures the underlying networks
>>
>> Currently there are a lot of solutions out there by many vendors.  Some
>> do all of these and some a subset, so it make the landscape a bit
>> confusing.   Lots of times vendors use SD-WAN when they are really just
>> talking about Hybrid WAN (multiple connections) or WAN optimization.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Doug Marschke
>> CTO
>> www.sdnessentials.com <http://www.sdnessentials.com>
>> JNCIE-SP #41, JNCIE-ENT #3
>> 415-902-5702   (cell)
>> 415-340-3112   (office)
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org > nanog-boun...@nanog.org> ] On Behalf Of Kasper Adel
>> Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2017 1:14 PM
>> To: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org <mailto:nanog@nanog.org> >
>> Subject: SD-WAN for enlightened
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm not sure if the buzzword SD-WAN is used to compensate for another
>> buzzword that got over-utilized (SDN) or it is a true 'new and improved'
>> way of doing things that has some innovation into it.
>>
>> I heard different explanation from different vendors:
>>
>> 1) appliances (+ controller) placed in-line to put traffic in tunnels
>> based on policy, with some DPI and traffic tagging...(to do
>> performance/policy based routing) over an expensive link (MPLS) and a cheap
>> one (broadband) with some 'firewall-like' filtering capabilities.
>> 2) same as above, with a flavor of 'machine learning' to find a pattern
>> for traffic to optimize utilization.
>> 3) a controller that instantiates and tears down tunnels from 'classic
>> routers' based on external policies and Network based features to do
>> performance based routing over an expensive link (MPLS) and a cheap one
>> (broadband) with encryption.
>>
>> Is the above a decent high-level summary?
>>
>> Has anyone tried any of these solutions, any general feedback ?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Kim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: SD-WAN for enlightened

[Colton Conor]

So who are the big SD-WAN players out there?

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Doug Marschke 
wrote:

> Hello Kasper,
>
> I will do my best to answer your SD-WAN question, but as you mentioned it
> is a buzzword that has a bit of confusion in its definitions.  I would say
> that a SD-WAN solution should have the following elements:
>
> 1.) Ability to manage multiple WAN connection and choose the path based on
> user and machine criteria (The Hybrid WAN)
> 2.) A controller to manage the polices and operations of the SD-WAN devices
> 3.) Analytics on the network and application level
> 4.) A software overlay that abstracts and secures the underlying networks
>
> Currently there are a lot of solutions out there by many vendors.  Some do
> all of these and some a subset, so it make the landscape a bit confusing.
>  Lots of times vendors use SD-WAN when they are really just talking about
> Hybrid WAN (multiple connections) or WAN optimization.
>
>
>
>
>
> Doug Marschke
> CTO
> www.sdnessentials.com
> JNCIE-SP #41, JNCIE-ENT #3
> 415-902-5702 (cell)
> 415-340-3112 (office)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Kasper Adel
> Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2017 1:14 PM
> To: NANOG list 
> Subject: SD-WAN for enlightened
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm not sure if the buzzword SD-WAN is used to compensate for another
> buzzword that got over-utilized (SDN) or it is a true 'new and improved'
> way of doing things that has some innovation into it.
>
> I heard different explanation from different vendors:
>
> 1) appliances (+ controller) placed in-line to put traffic in tunnels
> based on policy, with some DPI and traffic tagging...(to do
> performance/policy based routing) over an expensive link (MPLS) and a cheap
> one (broadband) with some 'firewall-like' filtering capabilities.
> 2) same as above, with a flavor of 'machine learning' to find a pattern
> for traffic to optimize utilization.
> 3) a controller that instantiates and tears down tunnels from 'classic
> routers' based on external policies and Network based features to do
> performance based routing over an expensive link (MPLS) and a cheap one
> (broadband) with encryption.
>
> Is the above a decent high-level summary?
>
> Has anyone tried any of these solutions, any general feedback ?
>
> Cheers,
> Kim
>
>

Re: 10G MetroE 1-2U Switch

[Colton Conor]

I looked at all three of these solutions, and ended up going with the
Juniper ACX5048. Similar hardware wise to the NCS as it has the Broadcom
chipset, but much more feature rich than Cisco.

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 4:37 PM, Erik Sundberg 
wrote:

> Hey Nanog,
>
> Looking for a new metroE Edge switch that has more that 10x 10G ports. I
> am having a hard time finding anything worthwhile without buying a full
> blown ASR9K Chassis or another vendor's chassis.
>
> Requirements
> MEF compliant
> 1-2U small foot print
> 10G Ports will be used for ENNI's and UNI Ports
> Prefer MPLS support for L2VPN's (EoMPLS and VPLS)
> QOS per Sub interface\vlan on a ENNI
> Cost effect 10G Ports
> 100G Not required
>
>
> Looking at the
> ASR920's - Great box for 1G but not enough 10G Ports Only 4
> NCS5001/NCS5501 - New\unproven\probably buggy, Lacking some features & QOS
> issues :/
> ASR900 - Looks good, but was hoping for a smaller foot print. If I
> remember right the 8x10G Cards can't go in every slot.
>
> Any other platforms I should be looking at?
>
> Ciena, Brocade, Juniper?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> -Erik
>
> 
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files
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Re: DWDM Optics cheaper than CWDM Optics?

[Colton Conor]

Just so you know, FS.com now stocks many of the common optics in Seattle
Washington for next day delivery. So they now are stocking more and more
items in the USA.

When we order an item from China on Monday USA time, we get it it Thursday
morning USA time if its in stock in China!



On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 9:17 AM, Karl Gerhard  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> fs.com offers DWDM optics that are cheaper than CWDM optics:
> CWDM 80km 10G for 600$ http://www.fs.com/c/cisco-cwdm
> -sfp-plus-2425?70-80km
> DWDM 80km 10G for 420$ http://www.fs.com/c/cisco-dwdm
> -sfp-plus-2485?70-80km
>
> This is significant.
> Is this for real? Has anybody bought their DWDM optics?
>
> Going with DWDM and passive Mux/Demux seems to be cheaper nowadays than
> going with CWDM.
>
> Regards
> Karl
>

Bonded VDSL2 / ADSL2+ Modems with 4 or more lines bonded

[Colton Conor]

What options are out there to bond 4 or more DSL lines together?

I know Positron has a 4 and 8 pair VDSL2 modem
http://www.positronaccess.com/AK626LC.php

Adtran has a 8 port VDSL2 modem
https://portal.adtran.com/web/page/portal/Adtran/product/1172868F1/470


and an Adtran 12 port ADSL2+ modem
https://portal.adtran.com/web/page/portal/Adtran/product/1172850G1/470

Actelis has a 8 pair VDS2 Modem:
http://actelis.com/actelis-products/ethernet-access-devices/ml700/


Is there anyone else out there? The problem with all these solutions is
they each cost over $1000, which is a lot considering 2 port bonded VDSL2
modems are in the $75-150 range. I know demand for these products is low,
but still hoping there is an OEM version.