Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-08 Thread Michał Droździewicz

S.J.Chun pisze:

Are you sure on disabling crypt at debian side? For me, it seems that
you turned off crypt at centos(which is turned off by default), and
debian, you did not(which might be turned on by default?)
Crypt in server settings or in client settings? Where can I check this 
setting?


I install and configure server the same on both machines although I do 
not change defaults embedded into the system.


Client installation also have the same config settings for both systems.

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[OpenAFS] Re: Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-08 Thread S.J.Chun
For debian, /etc/openafs/afs.conf.client in case you installed with package.
There you can find AFS_CRYPT and which should be false to make crypt off

- Original Message -
   From: Michał Droździewicz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: 
   Cc: OpenAFS-Info openafs-info@openafs.org
   Sent: 08-04-08 15:12:25
   Subject: Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and 
CentOS

  S.J.Chun pisze:
 Are you sure on disabling crypt at debian side? For me, it seems that
 you turned off crypt at centos(which is turned off by default), and
 debian, you did not(which might be turned on by default?)
Crypt in server settings or in client settings? Where can I check this 
setting?

I install and configure server the same on both machines although I do 
not change defaults embedded into the system.

Client installation also have the same config settings for both systems.

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Re: [OpenAFS] Re: Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-08 Thread Michał Droździewicz

S.J.Chun pisze:

For debian, /etc/openafs/afs.conf.client in case you installed with package.
There you can find AFS_CRYPT and which should be false to make crypt off
On CentOS only options for AFS Client (located in 
/etc/sysconfig/openafs) are:


AFSD_ARGS=-afsdb -fakestat

On Debian in /etc/openafs/afs.conf.client there is AFS_CRYPT set to 
true. So maybe this is the solution to the speed difference.


I do not know however how to turn this on on CentOS. Any ideas?

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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-08 Thread Michał Droździewicz

S.J.Chun pisze:

For debian, /etc/openafs/afs.conf.client in case you installed with package.
There you can find AFS_CRYPT and which should be false to make crypt off
With crypt disabled I get major speedup (25-31MiB/s) and this is very 
similiar to the CentOS results.


So this mistery is revealed ;) AFS_CRYPT is the culprit.


Is AFS_CRYPT really that needed that debian is turning this _ON_ by default?

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[OpenAFS] Re: Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-08 Thread S.J.Chun
I don't know why on is default; maybe for security reason? Our client
using OpenAFS for service, does not use this feature.

- Original Message -
   From: Michał Droździewicz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: 
   Cc: OpenAFS-Info openafs-info@openafs.org
   Sent: 08-04-08 18:01:01
   Subject: Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and 
CentOS

  S.J.Chun pisze:
 For debian, /etc/openafs/afs.conf.client in case you installed with package.
 There you can find AFS_CRYPT and which should be false to make crypt off
With crypt disabled I get major speedup (25-31MiB/s) and this is very 
similiar to the CentOS results.

So this mistery is revealed ;) AFS_CRYPT is the culprit.


Is AFS_CRYPT really that needed that debian is turning this _ON_ by default?

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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-08 Thread Jeffrey Altman

Michał Droździewicz wrote:

Is AFS_CRYPT really that needed that debian is turning this _ON_ by 
default?


One of the benefits that AFS provides over other file systems
is privacy.  For that you need crypt to be on.

The Windows client defaults to use of encrypted sessions as well.




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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-08 Thread Lars Schimmer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Michał Droździewicz wrote:
 Jeffrey Altman pisze:
 Is AFS_CRYPT really that needed that debian is turning this _ON_ by
 default?

 One of the benefits that AFS provides over other file systems
 is privacy.  For that you need crypt to be on.

 The Windows client defaults to use of encrypted sessions as well.
 Ok, but if I'll turn it of, files on the server still will be
 encrypted (scattered on the /vicep* partitions) and can't be accessed
 without proper login? Only files trensferred from the server to the
 client will be possible to read?

The files on fileserver are NOT encrypted, just scattered. There are
some python scripts around which put the data together.
Short form: access to server = access to data without any pwd.
AFAIK.

MfG,
Lars Schimmer
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Tel: +43 316 873-5405   E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fax: +43 316 873-5402   PGP-Key-ID: 0x4A9B1723
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-08 Thread Christopher D. Clausen
Jeffrey Altman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 MichaÅ, Droździewicz wrote:
 Is AFS_CRYPT really that needed that debian is turning this _ON_ by
 default?

 One of the benefits that AFS provides over other file systems
 is privacy.  For that you need crypt to be on.

 The Windows client defaults to use of encrypted sessions as well.

I think the better question is why CentOS has it _OFF_ by default. 
Packages should fail safe by being in the safest operating mode by 
default.

CDC


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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-08 Thread Jeffrey Altman

Christopher D. Clausen wrote:

I think the better question is why CentOS has it _OFF_ by default. 
Packages should fail safe by being in the safest operating mode by 
default.


Agreed but then you get the folks who install AFS and perform
some tests and say NFS is 20 times faster, AFS sucks.




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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-08 Thread Christopher D. Clausen
Jeffrey Altman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Christopher D. Clausen wrote:
 I think the better question is why CentOS has it _OFF_ by default.
 Packages should fail safe by being in the safest operating mode by
 default.

 Agreed but then you get the folks who install AFS and perform
 some tests and say NFS is 20 times faster, AFS sucks.

Anyone performing such tests should know about and be able to issue a fs 
setcrypt off command before running benchmarks.  What if OpenSSH left 
encryption turned off by default so people could benchmark it against 
FTP?

CDC


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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-08 Thread Michał Droździewicz

Jeffrey Altman pisze:
Is AFS_CRYPT really that needed that debian is turning this _ON_ by 
default?


One of the benefits that AFS provides over other file systems
is privacy.  For that you need crypt to be on.

The Windows client defaults to use of encrypted sessions as well.
Ok, but if I'll turn it of, files on the server still will be 
encrypted (scattered on the /vicep* partitions) and can't be accessed 
without proper login? Only files trensferred from the server to the 
client will be possible to read?


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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-08 Thread Wesley Chow


Jeffrey Altman wrote:
 Christopher D. Clausen wrote:
 
 I think the better question is why CentOS has it _OFF_ by default.
 Packages should fail safe by being in the safest operating mode by
 default.
 
 Agreed but then you get the folks who install AFS and perform
 some tests and say NFS is 20 times faster, AFS sucks.
 
 

Does turning crypt off mean data in transit can be read *and* tampered
with? Or read, but still safe from tampering?

Wes

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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-08 Thread Harald Barth

 What if OpenSSH left encryption turned off by default so people
 could benchmark it against FTP?

According to http://www.globus.org/security/overview.html that's
exactly what the globus versions of the ssh stuff does: As default
turn encryption off in the gsi-ssh so it does not get in the way of
fast file transfers. The problem is as usual that the end user, the
ones who are using and not the ones which have been setting up the
software (it's ssh, it's safe, yeah) has no idea what is going on
an happily will send confidential stuff (read passwords) over any
ssh connection.

But has anyone here on this list experimented with HW-acceleration for
encryption? It might be a good investment for a server (I hope that
my clients should cope).

Harald.
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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-08 Thread Wesley Chow


 
 Does turning crypt off mean data in transit can be read *and* tampered
 with? Or read, but still safe from tampering?

Also, does this imply that a server participating in the public
directory is trusting that all clients are using encryption to connect
to it? Is there a way for a server to force encryption on any clients
accessing its volumes?

Wes
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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-08 Thread Christopher D. Clausen
Wesley Chow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Does turning crypt off mean data in transit can be read *and*
 tampered with? Or read, but still safe from tampering?

 Also, does this imply that a server participating in the public
 directory is trusting that all clients are using encryption to connect
 to it? Is there a way for a server to force encryption on any clients
 accessing its volumes?

Encryption in OpenAFS is a per-client command and only operates when one 
is using tickets.  IP based ACLs and system:anyuser anonymous access 
cannot be encrypted.

There is not currently a way to enforce encryption from the server-side.

CDC


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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-08 Thread Jeffrey Altman

Harald Barth wrote:


But has anyone here on this list experimented with HW-acceleration for
encryption? It might be a good investment for a server (I hope that
my clients should cope).


I doubt you will find a hw engine engine for fcrypt.



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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-08 Thread Chas Williams (CONTRACTOR)
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED],Christopher D. Clausen 
writes:
setcrypt off command before running benchmarks.  What if OpenSSH left 
encryption turned off by default so people could benchmark it against 
FTP?

openssh sucks.
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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-08 Thread Jeffrey Altman

Wesley Chow wrote:



Does turning crypt off mean data in transit can be read *and* tampered
with? Or read, but still safe from tampering?


Also, does this imply that a server participating in the public
directory is trusting that all clients are using encryption to connect
to it? Is there a way for a server to force encryption on any clients
accessing its volumes?


The choice of encryption is client only.

We do not have a refuse non-encrypted connections option.
Anonymous connections cannot be encrypted.



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Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature


Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-08 Thread Jason Edgecombe
Jeffrey Altman wrote:
 Harald Barth wrote:

 But has anyone here on this list experimented with HW-acceleration for
 encryption? It might be a good investment for a server (I hope that
 my clients should cope).

 I doubt you will find a hw engine engine for fcrypt.

I agree, but what kind of crypto acceleration could a DSP (digital
signal processor) give? Many handhelds come with  DSPs now.

Jason
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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-07 Thread Michał Droździewicz

Derrick Brashear pisze:

I care about kernel, not OS. What kernel version on those machines?

Default distribution kernel:
on Debian: 2.6.18-6-686 i686
on CentOS: 2.6.18-53.1.14.el5 i686

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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-07 Thread Derrick Brashear
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Michał Droździewicz
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Derrick Brashear pisze:


  I care about kernel, not OS. What kernel version on those machines?
 
  Default distribution kernel:
  on Debian: 2.6.18-6-686 i686
  on CentOS: 2.6.18-53.1.14.el5 i686


Not what I expected. When you self-compiled 1.4.6 on Debian, I assume
you downloaded a tarfile from OpenAFS and did ./configure; make, yes?
What options, if any, to configure?
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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-07 Thread Michał Droździewicz

Derrick Brashear pisze:

Not what I expected. When you self-compiled 1.4.6 on Debian, I assume
you downloaded a tarfile from OpenAFS and did ./configure; make, yes?
What options, if any, to configure?
I've build a debian package using default debian options (1.4.6) and 
I've compiled from source with no options for ./configure except from 
--prefix
In both cases the result was the same - slow speed around 8-12MiB 
(copying from local disk to AFS structure)



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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-07 Thread Hartmut Reuter

Michał Droździewicz wrote:

Derrick Brashear pisze:


Not what I expected. When you self-compiled 1.4.6 on Debian, I assume
you downloaded a tarfile from OpenAFS and did ./configure; make, yes?
What options, if any, to configure?


I've build a debian package using default debian options (1.4.6) and 
I've compiled from source with no options for ./configure except from 
--prefix
In both cases the result was the same - slow speed around 8-12MiB 
(copying from local disk to AFS structure)





Are you sure your network interface is used in GBit/s mode with Debian 
and not just 100MBit-mode?


This could easily explain the low throughput.

Hartmut
-
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phone+49-89-3299-1328
fax  +49-89-3299-1301
RZG (Rechenzentrum Garching)webhttp://www.rzg.mpg.de/~hwr
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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-07 Thread Michał Droździewicz

Hartmut Reuter, dnia 2008-04-07 16:59 napisal:
Are you sure your network interface is used in GBit/s mode with Debian 
and not just 100MBit-mode?

1) Iface is in 1000Mib mode
2) copying files from local disk to AFS structure (iface is omitted in 
this test) was slow, not the network copying


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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-07 Thread Michał Droździewicz

Derrick Brashear, dnia 2008-04-07 17:04 napisal:

and I've
compiled from source with no options for ./configure except from --prefix
 In both cases the result was the same - slow speed around 8-12MiB (copying
from local disk to AFS structure)



Parameters you gave to afsd, in both (CentOS and Debian) cases? If
that doesn't tell us, next thing is to look at kernel config options.

The same in both configs.

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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-07 Thread Derrick Brashear
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 10:15 AM, Michał Droździewicz
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Derrick Brashear pisze:


  Not what I expected. When you self-compiled 1.4.6 on Debian, I assume
  you downloaded a tarfile from OpenAFS and did ./configure; make, yes?
  What options, if any, to configure?
 
  I've build a debian package using default debian options (1.4.6)

Ok.

 and I've
 compiled from source with no options for ./configure except from --prefix
  In both cases the result was the same - slow speed around 8-12MiB (copying
 from local disk to AFS structure)


Parameters you gave to afsd, in both (CentOS and Debian) cases? If
that doesn't tell us, next thing is to look at kernel config options.


Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-07 Thread Derrick Brashear
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Michał Droździewicz
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Derrick Brashear, dnia 2008-04-07 17:04 napisal:


 
   and I've
   compiled from source with no options for ./configure except from
 --prefix
In both cases the result was the same - slow speed around 8-12MiB
 (copying
   from local disk to AFS structure)
  
  
 
  Parameters you gave to afsd, in both (CentOS and Debian) cases? If
  that doesn't tell us, next thing is to look at kernel config options.
 
  The same in both configs.

Well, the kernel config options certainly aren't if you're using
CentOS's kernel in one case and Debian's in another.


Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-07 Thread Michał Droździewicz

Derrick Brashear, dnia 2008-04-07 17:40 napisal:

 The same in both configs.


Well, the kernel config options certainly aren't if you're using
CentOS's kernel in one case and Debian's in another.
:�§
I've compiled debian kernel package using kernel config from CentOS but 
this was no help at all. AFS client configs were the same.


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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-07 Thread Derrick Brashear
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Michał Droździewicz
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Derrick Brashear, dnia 2008-04-07 17:40 napisal:

 
 
The same in both configs.
  
  
  Well, the kernel config options certainly aren't if you're using
  CentOS's kernel in one case and Debian's in another.
  :�§
 
  I've compiled debian kernel package using kernel config from CentOS but
 this was no help at all. AFS client configs were the same.

Well, all that's left is compiling CentOS' kernel on Debian; If you're
willing it's certainly a valuable data point.
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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-07 Thread Harald Barth

What happens if you compare with memory cache in both cases? Could it
be the HD driver? A strace with the times for the different syscalls
might be interresting. And, eh, good luck.

Harald.
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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-07 Thread Michał Droździewicz

Derrick Brashear, dnia 2008-04-07 18:13 napisal:

Well, all that's left is compiling CentOS' kernel on Debian; If you're
willing it's certainly a valuable data point.

I'll try to test it tomorrow and will submit some new data.

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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-07 Thread Micha? Droz'dziewicz

Harald Barth, dnia 2008-04-07 18:21 napisal:

What happens if you compare with memory cache in both cases? Could it
be the HD driver? A strace with the times for the different syscalls
might be interresting. And, eh, good luck.
Can't be HD driver - dd in both cases (Debian and CentOS) shows transfer 
around 120MiB/s (RAID 0 on 2 SATA disks).


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[OpenAFS] Re: Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-07 Thread S.J.Chun
Are you sure on disabling crypt at debian side? For me, it seems that
you turned off crypt at centos(which is turned off by default), and
debian, you did not(which might be turned on by default?)

- Original Message -
   From: Micha?Dro?ziewicz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: 
   Cc: OpenAFS-Info openafs-info@openafs.org
   Sent: 08-04-07 23:15:10
   Subject: Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and 
CentOS

  Derrick Brashear pisze:
 Not what I expected. When you self-compiled 1.4.6 on Debian, I assume
 you downloaded a tarfile from OpenAFS and did ./configure; make, yes?
 What options, if any, to configure?
I've build a debian package using default debian options (1.4.6) and 
I've compiled from source with no options for ./configure except from 
--prefix
In both cases the result was the same - slow speed around 8-12MiB 
(copying from local disk to AFS structure)


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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-06 Thread Michał Droździewicz

For starters: I'm replying to the list - maybe somebody would be interested.

Sergio Gelato, dnia 2008-04-06 21:20 napisal:

* Michał Droździewicz [2008-04-06 10:07:18 +0200]:
First I've tried to install OpenAFS with Debian 4.0 (etch) on 3 
different machines (beginning from old Celeron, through Pentium 4 and at 
the end on Xeon 3GHz). Speed was pretty much the same when coping files 
from local disk to AFS (transfer without the network). It was about 8 to 
9 MiB/s and it didn't depend on machine RAM memory nor processor power). 
Tuning the afs client haven't helped at all (speed was rather dropping 
than going up).

Local disk to AFS isn't a very interesting use case for most people
since AFS fileservers tend to be dedicated machines. Some people don't
even install an AFS client on their fileservers. Besides, if there is
a bottleneck it would be nice to know whether it's on the server or on
the client side, and for that the tests over a Gigabit network are
probably best. Then you could even test a Debian server with a CentOS 
client and vice-versa.
Local disk to AFS is interesting for me as a benchmark and as a 
restoring client data from back up, because when machine fails you have 
to pump it up to the AFS structure somehow, over a network or from a 
local disk (in both cases using AFS client). Doing a backup also 
requires local reading. Unless there is better way of doing/restoring 
incremental backups.


Bottleneck is on the server side (as far as I've tested it). When 
testing server (both on Debian and on CentOS) besides of the local AFS 
client there were one Ubuntu client and two Fedora 7 clients. Every 
client had small disk cache and I was testing write using large file (10 
GiB) with mc (not very sophisticated, but the same in every try).


Using Debian as operating system, local AFS client was transferring data 
@ max speed of 20MiB when alone. When other client connected, transfer 
rate was divided equally between two clients. When network client was 
transferring data, on 100Mib network it was 7MiB and on 1000Mib network 
it was 12-15MiB @ max.


Using Centos local AFS client transfer speed was 38-40MiB, but when I've 
connected three clients (one Ubuntu and 2 Fedora 7) on the 100Mib 
network they divided bandwidth quite equally, but local AFS client 
transfer speed wasn't affected.


Top speed for disk write was 120MiB (two SATA disks in software RAID 0) 
in both cases - Debian and CentOS.


Lets say that the performance was like 250% better with 1.4.6 on CentOS 
5 than with 1.4.2 on Debian 4.0. I've even compiled 1.4.6 and 1.5.34 on 
Debian 4.0 but performance was the same.
I'd move to 1.4.6 on etch in any case. 
I like to have software installed from packages, so first I have to 
build 1.4.6 for etch and then install it ;)


--
Mike D
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Re: [OpenAFS] Speed difference between OpenAFS 1.4.x on Debian and CentOS

2008-04-06 Thread Derrick Brashear
I care about kernel, not OS. What kernel version on those machines?


  Lets say that the performance was like 250% better with 1.4.6 on CentOS 5
 than with 1.4.2 on Debian 4.0. I've even compiled 1.4.6 and 1.5.34 on Debian
 4.0 but performance was the same.

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