Re: [osol-discuss] What is the package managemnet software on solaris?
On Jul 13, 2007, at 7:18 PM, Jim Adams wrote: > I know that Debian GNU/Linux has Synaptic for package management. > Is there a similar package manager for Solaris? > We use pkgsrc http://www.netbsd.org/docs/software/packages.html A big reason for choosing pkgsrc is that it works on multiple OS platforms (gives a sense of consistency). If you are familiar with FreeBSD ports, this is similar. ./mk -- Matt Kolb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Academic Computing & Network Services Michigan State University ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] What is the package managemnet software on solaris?
Hmmm... > apt-get merely sits ontop of debian packages - nothing stopping anyone > (or you for that matter) to implement apt-get for SVR5 pkg's. NexentaOS already has... DSL ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] What is the package managemnet software on solaris?
> pkgadd has been invented by AT&T engineers. This is known to me. > It still > implements a lot of things > rpm and dpkg are missing. That is correct. I've recently done some RPM packaging and RPM is pretty kludgy when it comes to it - packaging is not as straightforward and as simple as it is with System V packaging. Advanced features like class installation scripts seem to be either missing from the design, or poorly documented. > We would need a few > additional features only to make > pkgadd better with respect to any feature. Like I wrote before on several occasions, the biggest technical flaw of System V packaging is that it does not support hierarchical namespaces which would provide for both making package metaclusters a reality, and would make Dennis's wish for unified packaging effort technically feasible. Another subtle but still major flaw is the fact that System V packaging tools aren't capable of automatic cleanup of obsolete delta files; that is simply left as a responsibility of the packager, which means there is no consistent and reliable way to do housekeeping between revisions. These are the things that are seriously hurting me as someone who does packaging day in and day out. I see the elegant and intelligent subsystems in IRIX and HP-UX and then I do Solaris packages, my bread and butter, and I hurt. I happen to know ways around it, but in doing so I'm pushing the System V packaging system to the limit, which can never be a good thing, and will most likely come back to bite me at one point or another. These changes require major surgery on the System V packaging subsystem. Who is going to do such a major undertaking? You? Me? On top of that, we'd have to go through the whole integration cycle, and for something as critical as a software subsystem, we're looking at a year of integration effort - just the bueraucratic part. We haven't even touched on the development effort yet. The ideal thing in my experience would be to contact SGI directly and see if they are willing to either license/opensource or just plain sell their software subsystem, especially if we consider that: a) IRIX has been discountinued, so sgi shouldn't be against giving it up b) IRIX's software subsystem understands and can handle System V packages, and integrates the information into his own software subsystem. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] What is the package managemnet software on solaris?
On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 04:25 -0700, Nicolas Linkert wrote: > Which leads to the interesting question why OpenSolaris doesn't take pkg-get. > Or apt-get. Or rpm. Ok, wrong question. Not invented by SUN engineers ... > > > This message posted from opensolaris.org > ___ > opensolaris-discuss mailing list > opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org apt-get merely sits ontop of debian packages - nothing stopping anyone (or you for that matter) to implement apt-get for SVR5 pkg's. Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] What is the package managemnet software on solaris?
Nicolas Linkert wrote: > Which leads to the interesting question why OpenSolaris doesn't take pkg-get. > Or apt-get. Or rpm. Ok, wrong question. Not invented by SUN engineers ... For the base rpm/deb versus pkgadd I think you will find that on the hole pkgadd has all the core functionality that rpm/deb have when you keep in mind that pkgadd is NOT a build system but a pure package manager. If you want to constructively help with tis please move over to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Also check out Nextenta. You might be surprised to know that CUSTOMERS probably don't actually want RPM on Solaris because the ISVs are using pkgadd to ship the software. pkg-get is an install system not a packaging system. As others have pointed out already have a look at what Blastwave layers ontop of pkgadd very simply. -- Darren J Moffat ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] What is the package managemnet software on solaris?
UNIX admin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Which leads to the interesting question why > > OpenSolaris doesn't take pkg-get. Or apt-get. Or rpm. > > Ok, wrong question. Not invented by SUN engineers ... > > There are better, more robust and more intelligent software subsystems > available than Debian's DPKG or RedHat's RPM format, which makes dpkg and rpm > suboptimal choices for Solaris resp. OpenSolaris. pkgadd has been invented by AT&T engineers. It still implements a lot of things rpm and dpkg are missing. We would need a few additional features only to make pkgadd better with respect to any feature. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] What is the package managemnet software on solaris?
> Which leads to the interesting question why > OpenSolaris doesn't take pkg-get. Or apt-get. Or rpm. > Ok, wrong question. Not invented by SUN engineers ... There are better, more robust and more intelligent software subsystems available than Debian's DPKG or RedHat's RPM format, which makes dpkg and rpm suboptimal choices for Solaris resp. OpenSolaris. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] What is the package managemnet software on solaris?
Which leads to the interesting question why OpenSolaris doesn't take pkg-get. Or apt-get. Or rpm. Ok, wrong question. Not invented by SUN engineers ... This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] What is the package managemnet software on solaris?
> Nope .. no mention of the 1693 software packages over > at Blastwave at all. > Gee. I wonder why? That must be the "Not Invented > Here" monster raising > its ugly head again. Either that or the software at > Blastwave is seen as > beta and not really ready to be used for production > or day to day usage. > Then again, the freeware provided by Sun is > UNSUPPORTED in capital letters > no less. If that is indeed the case, then it is a huge FARCE since I still remember Sun linking to sunfreeware.org, and packages on sunfreeware are a TECHNICAL DISASTER. While Blastwave has its own share of problems, you guys are the best publicly available option at the moment for Solaris freeware. End of the story. > I really have to wonder what the outside observer > must think of all this > fragmentation. There is Sun doing "it's thing" and > then there is the > OpenSolaris project doing its thing and then BeleniX > and the Blastwave > project doing their thing and then Nexenta is in a > whole other Debian-like > world. The cause of this fragmentation isn't political, but technical: System V software subsystem (`pkgadd` and friends) doesn't support namespaces and hierarchichal software bundles like IRIX and HP-UX do with their own software subsystems. If they did, anyone could roll out something like eoe.sw.gimp of their own, and it would automatically get overwritten / upgraded by Sun when they released a newer version. > At the very least you would think we could coordinate > some sort of software > catalog service which is something *every* Linux > distro has. We need a new software subsystem for this. And I suspect that Sun engineers involved with this issue are suffering from the "not invented here" syndrome, because I've received absolutely zero feedback to my suggestions to make a case study of HP-UX and IRIX software subsystems. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] What is the package managemnet software on solaris?
> Darren J Moffat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Joerg Schilling wrote: >> > Jim Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > >> >> I know that Debian GNU/Linux has Synaptic for package management. Is >> there a similar package manager for Solaris? >> > >> > Try "man pkg_add" >> that should be pkgadd one word no underscore. > > Sorry for the typo, I was thinking about the layered script "pkg-get" from Blastwave that used pkgadd and auto-handles dependencies in addition. > Which can be installed thus : # pkgadd -d http://www.blastwave.org/pkg_get.pkg See the HOWTO page at : http://www.blastwave.org/howto.html A simple catalog of md5 sigs and a bit of changes to pkgadd would probably allow pkgadd to do what pkg-get does. A smart psql based client at the end users machine would even speed up dependency resolution. Its all so easy to fix and enhance these things such that any given OpenSolaris based distro ( like Nevada or BeleniX ) could easily install software from either SUNW or Blastwave or where-ever. Really .. we could put together a catalog of SUNW packages as well as up to date browsers and such in six months or less. Speaking of up to date browsers I am surprised that Solaris Nevada ( snv_68 ) has firefox only and nothing else. I would think that SeaMonkey would be a nice option to include since it is the full blown browser package with chatzilla and mail etc etc. Nope .. its not there. snv_68 includes FireFox 2.0.0.3 : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/images/snv_68_firefox.png Although you can get the latest from Blastwave: http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/images/snv_68_firefox_from_blastwave.png You can get the full blown seamonkey from Blastwave also: http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/images/snv_68_seamonkey_from_blastwave.png The homepage for BeleniX points to Blastwave for software at the top of its list. That's nice : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/images/belenix_freeware_from_where.png In fact ... now that I think about it .. where does one look to get open source software for Solaris? I guess if I am a Solaris user I just go to www.sun.com and go clicking around until I land here : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/images/sol10_freeware_from_where.png Nope .. no mention of the 1693 software packages over at Blastwave at all. Gee. I wonder why? That must be the "Not Invented Here" monster raising its ugly head again. Either that or the software at Blastwave is seen as beta and not really ready to be used for production or day to day usage. Then again, the freeware provided by Sun is UNSUPPORTED in capital letters no less. Maybe blastwave is keeping things out of date or not pushing it out fast enough or cheaply enough over here. That must be the issue. Let's have a look at Gimp ... just for a lark. In snv_68 we get pre-production or beta release gimp : GIMP 2.3.16 in snv_68 : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/images/snv_68_gimp.png I know that I had tested and rejected GIMP 2.3.18 at Blastwave last month? http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/images/new_gimp2.3.18.png That would be because its beta and not quite ready for release and its fine for snv_68 because that is beta also. The only version you can get from Blastwave is good ol' 2.2.12 : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/images/snv_68_gimp_from_blastwave.png I really have to wonder what the outside observer must think of all this fragmentation. There is Sun doing "it's thing" and then there is the OpenSolaris project doing its thing and then BeleniX and the Blastwave project doing their thing and then Nexenta is in a whole other Debian-like world. At the very least you would think we could coordinate some sort of software catalog service which is something *every* Linux distro has. Dennis ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] What is the package managemnet software on solaris?
Darren J Moffat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Joerg Schilling wrote: > > Jim Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> I know that Debian GNU/Linux has Synaptic for package management. Is there > >> a similar package manager for Solaris? > > > > Try "man pkg_add" > > that should be pkgadd one word no underscore. Sorry for the typo, I was thinking about the layered script "pkg-get" from Blastwave that used pkgadd and auto-handles dependencies in addition. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] What is the package managemnet software on solaris?
Joerg Schilling wrote: > Jim Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I know that Debian GNU/Linux has Synaptic for package management. Is there a >> similar package manager for Solaris? > > Try "man pkg_add" that should be pkgadd one word no underscore. -- Darren J Moffat ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] What is the package managemnet software on solaris?
Jim Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I know that Debian GNU/Linux has Synaptic for package management. Is there a > similar package manager for Solaris? Try "man pkg_add" The Sysv package handling software exists AFAIR since ~ 1984. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] What is the package managemnet software on solaris?
Hi Jim, * Jim Adams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > I know that Debian GNU/Linux has Synaptic for package management. Is > there a similar package manager for Solaris? There's nothing similar at the moment in the core of Solaris. It's being worked on however as we investigate what the future of package management on OpenSolaris (and by extension Solaris) will be. That said, if you want to add 3rd party packages there's http://blastwave.org which uses a tool called pkg-get which is similar in function to apt-get in that it will install packages and their dependencies. Managing packages in the core of Solaris are done via pkgadd, pkgrm. They don't have any support for installling package dependencies automatically. Cheers, Glenn ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] What is the package managemnet software on solaris?
I know that Debian GNU/Linux has Synaptic for package management. Is there a similar package manager for Solaris? Thanks in advance. Jim Adams This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
