Re: Bad performance because of wrong characterset?
Hi Tim, and all others for your replies. Reminds me I've forgotten to close this thread. Some 'specialist' of the reseller came along, still convinced the characterset was wrong. Until he had to admit that he'd forgotten to create an index.. I was just asking the question to the List because I agree with Tim, but might have missed somewhat. To quote our local AWE: Please prove I'm wrong. Many time I was, and am, but I'm glad this time I wasn't. (Except from the fact that to some perspective variable length characters sets might be slightly slower than fixed length character sets) Alas I wasn't allowed to touch the system to find this out earlier, but... the system is fast now. (with the 'wrong' character set) At 10:29 26-11-03 -0800, you wrote: Pure bvllsh1t. Slap a sql trace on the process and find out what's actually going on. Stop the madness before some damager makes a stupid decision... In the end, they might be right. But isn't it better to be certain? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net Regards, Carel-Jan -- There will allwasy be another 10 last bugs -- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Carel-Jan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Bad performance because of wrong characterset?
Pure bvllsh1t. Slap a sql trace on the process and find out what's actually going on. Stop the madness before some damager makes a stupid decision... In the end, they might be right. But isn't it better to be certain? on 11/17/03 3:49 AM, Carel-Jan Engel at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi List, > > One of my customers gets HP Servicedesk 4.5 implemented. The database that > has been created by on of the DBA's for the application is Oracle 8.1.7.4, > on AIX 4.3. > > The database has characterset UTF8, which is the standard here. > > Now ServiceDesk has bad performance. HP claims that the characterset is > wrong, and a new database has to be created with character set > WE8ISO8859P15. > > I've never heard of bad performance due to differences in character sets, > probably because of my lack of experience. Anyone familiar with this > issue? > > TIA, Carel-Jan > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Tim Gorman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Bad performance because of wrong characterset?
At 18:24 17-11-03 -0800, you wrote: Hi, Since everyone is just guessing, can you say more detail about the bad performance? High CPU usage with no idle so client wait for CPU time? or Low CPu usage but client still wait? or High disk io rate with 100% disk busy? Can you show us some data about your aix box and statspack of your current database? Zhu Chao. Hi Zhu, That's the point, exactly. They didn't trace/statspack/test whatsoever. I want them to gather metrics, before implementing some wild guess 'enhancements'. The reason why I posted the question was just my curiousity whether the characterset thing was some widespread knowledge I simply failed to hear of. As far as I can see it doesn't make much sense. Regards, Carel-Jan -- There will allwasy be another 10 last bugs -- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Carel-Jan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Bad performance because of wrong characterset?
Hi, Since everyone is just guessing, can you say more detail about the bad performance? High CPU usage with no idle so client wait for CPU time? or Low CPu usage but client still wait? or High disk io rate with 100% disk busy? Can you show us some data about your aix box and statspack of your current database? Zhu Chao. - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 6:49 PM > Hi List, > > One of my customers gets HP Servicedesk 4.5 implemented. The database that > has been created by on of the DBA's for the application is Oracle 8.1.7.4, > on AIX 4.3. > > The database has characterset UTF8, which is the standard here. > > Now ServiceDesk has bad performance. HP claims that the characterset is > wrong, and a new database has to be created with character set > WE8ISO8859P15. > > I've never heard of bad performance due to differences in character sets, > probably because of my lack of experience. Anyone familiar with this > issue? > > TIA, Carel-Jan > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Carel-Jan Engel > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: zhu chao INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Bad performance because of wrong characterset?
I really hate to admit it, but I agree. Doing otherwise is a simple recipe for hypertension, stroke & an early death. Besides, it's so much more gratifying be able to say "I TOLD YOU SO". Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -Original Message- Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 4:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: > Being a DBA means learning to live with disappointment. Well said, well spoken, Dennis. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Daniel Fink INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Goulet, Dick INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Bad performance because of wrong characterset?
The "fun" part is that if the database will perform better after recreation for some reason, then the HP guys (and probably your bosses) will tell you, "we said so" or smth like that :) Of course when performance goes bad again after a week, HP guys will probably ask for a block size change + db reorg ;) Tanel. - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 10:24 PM > No characterset changed yet. They want us to recreate the database. the > system is going live in a few weeks. I simply hate changing things because > someone says so. It might be the quickest solution, but most probably not, > and then it's a waste of time, energy etc. > > >Here's a wild guess. If the character set is changed, a 10 MB segment > >(from the > >first extent to high water mark) may become 20 MB or 5 MB. Then CBO > >changes the > >plan and it happens to be a bad one. > > > >Yong Huang > > Regards, Carel-Jan > > -- There will allwasy be another 10 last bugs -- > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Carel-Jan > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Tanel Poder INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Bad performance because of wrong characterset?
DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: > Being a DBA means learning to live with disappointment. Well said, well spoken, Dennis. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Daniel Fink INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Bad performance because of wrong characterset?
Carel-Jan Look at it this way. Easier to fix the character set now. And if the performance is still bad, then they've got one less excuse. Being a DBA means learning to live with disappointment. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 2:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L No characterset changed yet. They want us to recreate the database. the system is going live in a few weeks. I simply hate changing things because someone says so. It might be the quickest solution, but most probably not, and then it's a waste of time, energy etc. >Here's a wild guess. If the character set is changed, a 10 MB segment >(from the >first extent to high water mark) may become 20 MB or 5 MB. Then CBO >changes the >plan and it happens to be a bad one. > >Yong Huang Regards, Carel-Jan -- There will allwasy be another 10 last bugs -- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Carel-Jan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Bad performance because of wrong characterset?
No characterset changed yet. They want us to recreate the database. the system is going live in a few weeks. I simply hate changing things because someone says so. It might be the quickest solution, but most probably not, and then it's a waste of time, energy etc. Here's a wild guess. If the character set is changed, a 10 MB segment (from the first extent to high water mark) may become 20 MB or 5 MB. Then CBO changes the plan and it happens to be a bad one. Yong Huang Regards, Carel-Jan -- There will allwasy be another 10 last bugs -- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Carel-Jan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Bad performance because of wrong characterset?
Here's a wild guess. If the character set is changed, a 10 MB segment (from the first extent to high water mark) may become 20 MB or 5 MB. Then CBO changes the plan and it happens to be a bad one. Yong Huang --- Carel-Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 10:34 17-11-03 -0800, you wrote: > > >Performance depends on a lot of things, such how much string operations you > >got, what are the contents of your strings (are they mainly latin chars or > >are there lots of asian ones etc..). > > > >Tanel. > > Thanks Tanel for your respond. I doubt whether a query will go from several > minutes to seconds, even when a fixed-width single-byte characterset is > chosen. I'm not supposed to interfere with this Service Desk project, but > just couldn't keep my mouth shut when I heard HP scheduled a meeting for > tomorrow (when I'm not there) and claimed that recreation of a database > with the proper characterset would do the job. I suggested to do some > tracing & analysis first, before start shooting at a moving target in the > dark. And of course posted the question to this bunch of knowledgable people. > > > Regards, Carel-Jan __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Yong Huang INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Bad performance because of wrong characterset?
Thanks Yong. I doubt whether this can have such a significant effect, or it must be that due to some incompatability an index can't be used (or simply isn't even there). They have to trace the session, alas I'm not allowed to touch the system (other project, other budget blah blah) At 06:54 17-11-03 -0800, you wrote: Carel-Jan, About two weeks ago, Faan DeSwardt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted to the thread "Unicode: UTF-16 to UTF-8 conversion", saying UTF-8 is variable-length encoding and so is slower than the fixed-width UTF-16, and also US7ASCII. Maybe it's the same issue here comparing UTF-8 with WE8ISO8859P15. Faan can comment. Yong Huang Regards, Carel-Jan -- There will allwasy be another 10 last bugs -- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Carel-Jan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Bad performance because of wrong characterset?
At 10:34 17-11-03 -0800, you wrote: Performance depends on a lot of things, such how much string operations you got, what are the contents of your strings (are they mainly latin chars or are there lots of asian ones etc..). Tanel. Thanks Tanel for your respond. I doubt whether a query will go from several minutes to seconds, even when a fixed-width single-byte characterset is chosen. I'm not supposed to interfere with this Service Desk project, but just couldn't keep my mouth shut when I heard HP scheduled a meeting for tomorrow (when I'm not there) and claimed that recreation of a database with the proper characterset would do the job. I suggested to do some tracing & analysis first, before start shooting at a moving target in the dark. And of course posted the question to this bunch of knowledgable people. Regards, Carel-Jan -- There will allwasy be another 10 last bugs -- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Carel-Jan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Bad performance because of wrong characterset?
Hi! Only string manipulation/comparision is slower with variable width charsets than with fixed width ones, because with variable width ones (UTF-8) you have to check the highest bit of each byte to check whether it shows that the next byte is "part of" current character or is part of next character. So, this means more CPU usage. But, if you migrate your whole database from UTF-8 to UTF-16 and you got a lot of character data, your database overall performance might get worse, since your strings get larger in bytes and retrieving 100 rows might mean reading 20 blocks instead of 10 like in the past. Performance depends on a lot of things, such how much string operations you got, what are the contents of your strings (are they mainly latin chars or are there lots of asian ones etc..). Tanel. - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 4:54 PM > Carel-Jan, > > About two weeks ago, Faan DeSwardt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted to the thread > "Unicode: UTF-16 to UTF-8 conversion", saying UTF-8 is variable-length encoding > and so is slower than the fixed-width UTF-16, and also US7ASCII. Maybe it's the > same issue here comparing UTF-8 with WE8ISO8859P15. Faan can comment. > > Yong Huang > > --- Carel-Jan Engel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi List, > > > > One of my customers gets HP Servicedesk 4.5 implemented. The database that > > has been created by on of the DBA's for the application is Oracle 8.1.7.4, > > on AIX 4.3. > > > > The database has characterset UTF8, which is the standard here. > > > > Now ServiceDesk has bad performance. HP claims that the characterset is > > wrong, and a new database has to be created with character set > > WE8ISO8859P15. > > > > I've never heard of bad performance due to differences in character sets, > > probably because of my lack of experience. Anyone familiar with this > > issue? > > > > TIA, Carel-Jan > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Yong Huang > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Tanel Poder INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Bad performance because of wrong characterset?
Carel-Jan, About two weeks ago, Faan DeSwardt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted to the thread "Unicode: UTF-16 to UTF-8 conversion", saying UTF-8 is variable-length encoding and so is slower than the fixed-width UTF-16, and also US7ASCII. Maybe it's the same issue here comparing UTF-8 with WE8ISO8859P15. Faan can comment. Yong Huang --- Carel-Jan Engel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi List, > > One of my customers gets HP Servicedesk 4.5 implemented. The database that > has been created by on of the DBA's for the application is Oracle 8.1.7.4, > on AIX 4.3. > > The database has characterset UTF8, which is the standard here. > > Now ServiceDesk has bad performance. HP claims that the characterset is > wrong, and a new database has to be created with character set > WE8ISO8859P15. > > I've never heard of bad performance due to differences in character sets, > probably because of my lack of experience. Anyone familiar with this > issue? > > TIA, Carel-Jan __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Yong Huang INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Bad performance because of wrong characterset?
Hi List, One of my customers gets HP Servicedesk 4.5 implemented. The database that has been created by on of the DBA's for the application is Oracle 8.1.7.4, on AIX 4.3. The database has characterset UTF8, which is the standard here. Now ServiceDesk has bad performance. HP claims that the characterset is wrong, and a new database has to be created with character set WE8ISO8859P15. I've never heard of bad performance due to differences in character sets, probably because of my lack of experience. Anyone familiar with this issue? TIA, Carel-Jan -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Carel-Jan Engel INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
