Re: Solved: Tell mechanism issue (perhaps OT)
Hi Jorge, I’m getting pids well above 64k on my laptop (OS X). Oops. I see. Hmm ... -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: Solved: Tell mechanism issue (perhaps OT)
Hi Jorge, how much RAM does it have, is it a 64bit machine? I have checked the number Alex mentioned on some of our servers, all running Ubuntu 12.04, servers below 64GB RAM have that number set to 32768 per default, machines with 128GB got 98304. On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Jorge Acereda Maciá jacer...@gmail.com wrote: I’m getting pids well above 64k on my laptop (OS X). On 06 Aug 2014, at 22:33, Alexander Burger a...@software-lab.de wrote: Hi Randall, I believe that modern Linux and FreeBSD implementations use 32 bit ints for the pid_t. Right. There will never be that many processes on a 32 bit OS, but since they just go forward until they wrap, getting a pid bigger than 16 bits is probably even to be expected. However, they don't plainly wrap. There is a system limit in the kernel, controlled via /proc/sys/kernel/pid_max. Even on 64-bit machines (where pid_t is also an 'int', i.e. a 64-bit number), PIDs don't get up to such huge numbers. ♪♫ Alex -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subjectUnsubscribe -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: Solved: Tell mechanism issue (perhaps OT)
Jorge, forget that question, I just got told that osx only have the 32bit version. On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 1:09 PM, Henrik Sarvell hsarv...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jorge, how much RAM does it have, is it a 64bit machine? I have checked the number Alex mentioned on some of our servers, all running Ubuntu 12.04, servers below 64GB RAM have that number set to 32768 per default, machines with 128GB got 98304. On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Jorge Acereda Maciá jacereda@gmailcom wrote: I’m getting pids well above 64k on my laptop (OS X). On 06 Aug 2014, at 22:33, Alexander Burger a...@software-lab.de wrote: Hi Randall, I believe that modern Linux and FreeBSD implementations use 32 bit ints for the pid_t. Right. There will never be that many processes on a 32 bit OS, but since they just go forward until they wrap, getting a pid bigger than 16 bits is probably even to be expected. However, they don't plainly wrap. There is a system limit in the kernel, controlled via /proc/sys/kernel/pid_max. Even on 64-bit machines (where pid_t is also an 'int', i.e. a 64-bit number), PIDs don't get up to such huge numbers. ♪♫ Alex -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subjectUnsubscribe -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: Solved: Tell mechanism issue (perhaps OT)
It’s a 64bit 8 GB machine. BSDs work differently: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/basics-processeshtml Maximum seems to be 9, at least on FreeBSD. On 06 Aug 2014, at 23:09, Henrik Sarvell hsarv...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jorge, how much RAM does it have, is it a 64bit machine? I have checked the number Alex mentioned on some of our servers, all running Ubuntu 12.04, servers below 64GB RAM have that number set to 32768 per default, machines with 128GB got 98304. On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Jorge Acereda Maciá jacer...@gmail.com wrote: I’m getting pids well above 64k on my laptop (OS X). On 06 Aug 2014, at 22:33, Alexander Burger a...@software-lab.de wrote: Hi Randall, I believe that modern Linux and FreeBSD implementations use 32 bit ints for the pid_t. Right. There will never be that many processes on a 32 bit OS, but since they just go forward until they wrap, getting a pid bigger than 16 bits is probably even to be expected. However, they don't plainly wrap. There is a system limit in the kernel, controlled via /proc/sys/kernel/pid_max. Even on 64-bit machines (where pid_t is also an 'int', i.e. a 64-bit number), PIDs don't get up to such huge numbers. ♪♫ Alex -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subjectUnsubscribe -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: Solved: Tell mechanism issue (perhaps OT)
On Thu, Aug 07, 2014 at 01:19:16PM +0700, Henrik Sarvell wrote: Jorge, forget that question, I just got told that osx only have the 32bit version. Yes, but the question is valid. The machine itself might be 64-bit with a large RAM, and many processes, still running pil32. ♪♫ Alex -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: Solved: Tell mechanism issue (perhaps OT)
Oh, you mean the 32 bit version of pico lisp? Thats right… On 06 Aug 2014, at 23:23, Jorge Acereda Maciá jacer...@gmail.com wrote: It’s a 64bit 8 GB machine. BSDs work differently: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/basics-processeshtml Maximum seems to be 9, at least on FreeBSD. On 06 Aug 2014, at 23:09, Henrik Sarvell hsarv...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jorge, how much RAM does it have, is it a 64bit machine? I have checked the number Alex mentioned on some of our servers, all running Ubuntu 12.04, servers below 64GB RAM have that number set to 32768 per default, machines with 128GB got 98304. On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Jorge Acereda Maciá jacer...@gmail.com wrote: I’m getting pids well above 64k on my laptop (OS X). On 06 Aug 2014, at 22:33, Alexander Burger a...@software-lab.de wrote: Hi Randall, I believe that modern Linux and FreeBSD implementations use 32 bit ints for the pid_t. Right. There will never be that many processes on a 32 bit OS, but since they just go forward until they wrap, getting a pid bigger than 16 bits is probably even to be expected. However, they don't plainly wrap. There is a system limit in the kernel, controlled via /proc/sys/kernel/pid_max. Even on 64-bit machines (where pid_t is also an 'int', i.e. a 64-bit number), PIDs don't get up to such huge numbers. ♪♫ Alex -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subjectUnsubscribe -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: Solved: Tell mechanism issue (perhaps OT)
On Thu, Aug 07, 2014 at 08:01:50AM +0200, Alexander Burger wrote: Hi Jorge, I’m getting pids well above 64k on my laptop (OS X). OK Fixed pil32 too. I hope I didn't break anything. Tests are welcome! I've uploaded a new version to http://software-lab.de/picoLisp.tgz ♪♫ Alex -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: Solved: Tell mechanism issue (perhaps OT)
Hi all, On Thu, Aug 07, 2014 at 09:00:21AM +0200, Alexander Burger wrote: Fixed pil32 too. I hope I didn't break anything. Tests are welcome! For the records: The handling of PIDs in both the 32-bit and the 64-bit versions of PicoLisp itself was never a problem. They are handled in full 'pid_t' size. The problem was the internal IPC protocol used by the 'tell' function, when an (optional) PID is passed for the addressee of the message. Here, a field of only 16 bits was used to store the PID. This is fixed now in pil32 and pil64. ♪♫ Alex -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Implementation Education
To be able to use a language with utmost confidence one should be able to understand its implementation so much so as to be able to implement it and maintain it. This I am saying from my experience in maintaining my Porteus Linux system. PicoLisp matches Porteus in many ways, minimalist, easy to maintain, speed etc. PicoLisp philosophy of minimal orthogonal design makes it ideal for this down to bare metal approach. However I am just a novice lisp programmer who would love to invest significant effort into learning through using picoLisp. I shall be grateful if Alexander and/or other senior experienced people be kind enough to outline various components of implementing picoLisp. Such as: knowledge level of lisp, assembly and C (reference books, links etc). Kindly indicate steps to start learning how to implement and maintain picoLisp.
Re: Implementation Education
Hi Alabhya, if I were you I would learn enough C to understand the pil32 source and then go through it. On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Alabhya Singh alab...@yahoo.com wrote: To be able to use a language with utmost confidence one should be able to understand its implementation so much so as to be able to implement it and maintain it. This I am saying from my experience in maintaining my Porteus Linux system. PicoLisp matches Porteus in many ways, minimalist, easy to maintain, speed etc. PicoLisp philosophy of minimal orthogonal design makes it ideal for this down to bare metal approach. However I am just a novice lisp programmer who would love to invest significant effort into learning through using picoLisp. I shall be grateful if Alexander and/or other senior experienced people be kind enough to outline various components of implementing picoLisp. Such as: knowledge level of lisp, assembly and C (reference books, links etc). Kindly indicate steps to start learning how to implement and maintain picoLisp.
Re: Implementation Education
Thanks Henrik. May be because pil32 and C are simpler than pil64 and assembly respectively.
Re: Implementation Education
Perhaps not simpler but my thinking is that it's probably easier to find resources on C plus getting to know C better might have higher utility than assembly. On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Alabhya Singh alab...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks Henrik. May be because pil32 and C are simpler than pil64 and assembly respectively. -- * From: * Henrik Sarvell hsarv...@gmail.com; * To: * picolisp@software-lab.de; * Subject: * Re: Implementation Education * Sent: * Thu, Aug 7, 2014 9:31:10 AM Hi Alabhya, if I were you I would learn enough C to understand the pil32 source and then go through it. On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Alabhya Singh alab...@yahoo.com wrote: To be able to use a language with utmost confidence one should be able to understand its implementation so much so as to be able to implement it and maintain it. This I am saying from my experience in maintaining my Porteus Linux system. PicoLisp matches Porteus in many ways, minimalist, easy to maintain, speed etc. PicoLisp philosophy of minimal orthogonal design makes it ideal for this down to bare metal approach. However I am just a novice lisp programmer who would love to invest significant effort into learning through using picoLisp. I shall be grateful if Alexander and/or other senior experienced people be kind enough to outline various components of implementing picoLisp. Such as: knowledge level of lisp, assembly and C (reference books, links etc). Kindly indicate steps to start learning how to implement and maintain picoLisp.
Re: Implementation Education
Hi Alabhya, I would also suggest starting with miniPicoLisp.- http://software-lab.de/miniPicoLisp.tgz Check out the docs: http://picolisp.com/wiki/?Documentation Specifically, the reference: http://software-lab.de/doc/ref.html#vm You may need to read it over several times. I've probably read it 10+ times and learn something new after each reading. On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 5:59 AM, Henrik Sarvell hsarv...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps not simpler but my thinking is that it's probably easier to find resources on C plus getting to know C better might have higher utility than assembly. On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Alabhya Singh alab...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks Henrik. May be because pil32 and C are simpler than pil64 and assembly respectively. -- * From: * Henrik Sarvell hsarv...@gmail.com; * To: * picolisp@software-lab.de; * Subject: * Re: Implementation Education * Sent: * Thu, Aug 7, 2014 9:31:10 AM Hi Alabhya, if I were you I would learn enough C to understand the pil32 source and then go through it. On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Alabhya Singh alab...@yahoo.com wrote: To be able to use a language with utmost confidence one should be able to understand its implementation so much so as to be able to implement it and maintain it. This I am saying from my experience in maintaining my Porteus Linux system. PicoLisp matches Porteus in many ways, minimalist, easy to maintain, speed etc. PicoLisp philosophy of minimal orthogonal design makes it ideal for this down to bare metal approach. However I am just a novice lisp programmer who would love to invest significant effort into learning through using picoLisp. I shall be grateful if Alexander and/or other senior experienced people be kind enough to outline various components of implementing picoLisp. Such as: knowledge level of lisp, assembly and C (reference books, links etc). Kindly indicate steps to start learning how to implement and maintain picoLisp.
Frameset errors in doc/index.html
Hi Alex, I use the frame-based solution for doc lookup (index.html by me), here http://www.software-lab.de/doc/, quite a lot, but for some time now I have noticed that some modern browsers (eg. Chrome, Safari) are complaining about (my) JavaScript code. I have not yet been able to find out what may be wrong in this code, but when I checked the URL with http://validator.w3.org, I got quite a few red errors. I then found that almost all of these validator errors could be made to go away if I replaced the first two lines in index.html with these: !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd” Whether this DOCTYPE also will make the JavaScript errors go away, is a bit too early to say. /Jon-- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: Frameset errors in doc/index.html
Hi Jon, I use the frame-based solution for doc lookup (index.html by me) Me too :) !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd” Thanks! I've incorporated it into the release. ♪♫ Alex -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: Implementation Education
Dear Joe, Thank you for your valuable suggestion to start with even smaller PicoLisp. Our definitions/plans/projects: http://sparksoflove.cwahi.net/dpp On Thu, 8/7/14, Joe Bogner joebog...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: Implementation Education To: picolisp@software-lab.de Date: Thursday, August 7, 2014, 3:44 PM Hi Alabhya, I would also suggest starting with miniPicoLisp.- http://software-lab.de/miniPicoLisptgz Check out the docs: http://picolisp.com/wiki/?Documentation Specifically, the reference: http://software-lab.de/doc/ref.html#vm You may need to read it over several times. I've probably read it 10+ times and learn something new after each reading. On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 5:59 AM, Henrik Sarvell hsarv...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps not simpler but my thinking is that it's probably easier to find resources on C plus getting to know C better might have higher utility than assembly. On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Alabhya Singh alab...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks Henrik. May be because pil32 and C are simpler than pil64 and assembly respectively. From: Henrik Sarvell hsarv...@gmail.com; To: picolisp@software-lab.de; Subject: Re: Implementation Education Sent: Thu, Aug 7, 2014 9:31:10 AM Hi Alabhya, if I were you I would learn enough C to understand the pil32 source and then go through it. On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Alabhya Singh alab...@yahoo.com wrote: To be able to use a language with utmost confidence one should be able to understand its implementation so much so as to be able to implement it and maintain it. This I am saying from my experience in maintaining my Porteus Linux system. PicoLisp matches Porteus in many ways, minimalist, easy to maintain, speed etc. PicoLisp philosophy of minimal orthogonal design makes it ideal for this down to bare metal approach. However I am just a novice lisp programmer who would love to invest significant effort into learning through using picoLisp. I shall be grateful if Alexander and/or other senior experienced people be kind enough to outline various components of implementing picoLisp. Such as: knowledge level of lisp, assembly and C (reference books, links etc). Kindly indicate steps to start learning how to implement and maintain picoLisp. -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: Frameset errors in doc/index.html
I see no JS errors in the console of FF 22 and Chrome 33. On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 6:28 PM, Alexander Burger a...@software-lab.de wrote: Hi Jon, I use the frame-based solution for doc lookup (index.html by me) Me too :) !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd” Thanks! I've incorporated it into the release. ♪♫ Alex -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: Solved: Tell mechanism issue (perhaps OT)
The fix has been running now for roughly 24 hours with PIDs both below and above 16bit with roughly 2-30 requests per second depending on the hour, works flawlessly. One reset from 98304 to 300 has already happened without issues. Using pil64. On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Alexander Burger a...@software-lab.de wrote: Hi all, On Thu, Aug 07, 2014 at 09:00:21AM +0200, Alexander Burger wrote: Fixed pil32 too. I hope I didn't break anything. Tests are welcome! For the records: The handling of PIDs in both the 32-bit and the 64-bit versions of PicoLisp itself was never a problem. They are handled in full 'pid_t' size. The problem was the internal IPC protocol used by the 'tell' function, when an (optional) PID is passed for the addressee of the message. Here, a field of only 16 bits was used to store the PID. This is fixed now in pil32 and pil64. ♪♫ Alex -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
