Re: [qmailtoaster] Hypervisor recommendations for virtualizing QMT

[Peter Peltonen]

Hi,

On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 4:43 AM, Casey Price  wrote:
> That is a good point Peter...Xen is working great on the systems I'm
> currently using it on at the moment. Even Amazon is using Xen for their EC2.
> The one thing I really want is some type of snapshot or backup system for
> Xen that would allow me to backup guests while they are running. Also, some
> form of migration capabilities...maybe not quite as far as vMotion (although
> I wouldn't complain if it were free...but it is way out of my price range).

I have my Xen guests on their logical volumes. I simply do LVM
snapshots and then use dd to copy the image of the VM to another
server if I need to do a full backup of the machine.

Otherwise I use BackupPC for regular backups.

Best,
Peter

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Re: [qmailtoaster] Hypervisor recommendations for virtualizing QMT

[Dan McAllister]

To be honest, this is akin to asking which Linux Distro is best... ask 
100 people, and get 102 different answers!


I used Xen in CentOS 5, and now use KVM in CentOS 6 (yes, I like CentOS 
better than the more popular Debian-based distros).


I found little difficulty in migrating from my knowledge of Xen to 
getting some knowledge about KVM. I've been quite happy with both, and 
even successfully migrated a hosted Windows 2003 client from an older 
Xen host to a newer KVM one (with faster networking too!). In fact, I 
found the CLI interface for managing clients easier in KVM than I did 
with Xen... a big plus for me, as I tend to prefer a non-GUI server install!


I suspect there will be some performance preferences for one or the 
other (and my understanding is that Xen has gained entrance to the base 
kernel, so KVM is no longer the only kernel-based VM option).


Just my thoughts... they're as personal (and unique) as any of the others...

Dan
IT4SOHO

On 1/26/2012 1:44 AM, Casey Price wrote:

Hi all,

I'm curious to hear which hypervisors some of you guys are using for 
virtualizing QMT or just VMs in general. I played around with Citrix 
XenServer for a good 6-8 months last year, very very briefly checked 
out Hyper-V, and currently am running Xen on CentOS 5.7 on a few of my 
PowerEdge 2650's. I also briefly tried out VMware's free one...ESXi?


From what I've been hearing, KVM is supposed to be the new up and 
coming standard. I haven't used it at all and don't know much about 
it, but I was hoping to get some recommendations from others on here. 
Someone mentioned Proxmox on here a few weeks back, so I downloaded 
Proxmox VE 1.9 and installed it on a server I just recently bought the 
other night.


That's about as far as I've gotten with it at this point, so maybe 
someone can provide some insight?


--
Casey Price

Smile Global Technical Support
Submit or check trouble tickets http://billing.smileglobal.com
www.smileglobal.com 

Follow us on Twitter 
Find us on Facebook 

Re: [qmailtoaster] Hypervisor recommendations for virtualizing QMT

[Casey Price]

On 1/26/12 1:12 AM, Peter Peltonen wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 8:44 AM, Casey Price  wrote:

I'm curious to hear which hypervisors some of you guys are using for
virtualizing QMT or just VMs in general. I played around with Citrix
XenServer for a good 6-8 months last year, very very briefly checked out
Hyper-V, and currently am running Xen on CentOS 5.7 on a few of my PowerEdge
2650's. I also briefly tried out VMware's free one...ESXi?

 From what I've been hearing, KVM is supposed to be the new up and coming
standard. I haven't used it at all and don't know much about it, but I was
hoping to get some recommendations from others on here. Someone mentioned
Proxmox on here a few weeks back, so I downloaded Proxmox VE 1.9 and
installed it on a server I just recently bought the other night.

That's about as far as I've gotten with it at this point, so maybe someone
can provide some insight?

I've ran my toaster in a centos5 + xen combination and been quite
happy with it. No stability or perfomance issuses whatsoever.

Xen is not officially supported in rhel/centos version 6, but there is
a 3rd party repository for the kernel/xen packages and those have been
working with ok for my dom0 and web server domUs. As qmailtoaster does
not support centos6 yet, I havent tried installing a toaster on
centos6 domU though.
That is a good point Peter...Xen is working great on the systems I'm 
currently using it on at the moment. Even Amazon is using Xen for their 
EC2. The one thing I really want is some type of snapshot or backup 
system for Xen that would allow me to backup guests while they are 
running. Also, some form of migration capabilities...maybe not quite as 
far as vMotion (although I wouldn't complain if it were free...but it is 
way out of my price range).

I would be interested in trying out KVM, but for me it has seemed
still a bit immature, so I went with 3rd party Xen. And as time
resources are limited I don't want to waste time learning another
technology as I have a working solution with Xen.
I'm curious about KVM as well, and will probably test with it a little 
bit and see what I think. I don't really get why RedHat decided to stop 
supporting xen. Does anyone have anything to say about RHEV or oVirt? Is 
there any type of CentOS-based RHEV?


What type of virtualization is VMware doing with ESX? Is it KVM, Xen, or 
something else?


Anyone try using Cloudmin to manage your virtual servers?


Regards,
Peter

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Casey Price

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www.smileglobal.com 

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Re: [qmailtoaster] Hypervisor recommendations for virtualizing QMT

[Cecil Yother, Jr.]

On 01/26/2012 08:42 AM, Phil Leinhauser wrote:

>
>
> On 01/26/2012 01:12 AM, Peter Peltonen wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 8:44 AM, Casey Price
>> wrote:
>>> I'm curious to hear which hypervisors some of you guys are using for
>>> virtualizing QMT or just VMs in general. I played around with Citrix
>>> XenServer for a good 6-8 months last year, very very briefly checked
>>> out
>>> Hyper-V, and currently am running Xen on CentOS 5.7 on a few of my
>>> PowerEdge
>>> 2650's. I also briefly tried out VMware's free one...ESXi?
>>>
>>>
From what I've been hearing, KVM is supposed to be the new up and
>>> coming
>>> standard. I haven't used it at all and don't know much about it, but I
>>> was
>>> hoping to get some recommendations from others on here. Someone
>>> mentioned
>>> Proxmox on here a few weeks back, so I downloaded Proxmox VE 1.9 and
>>> installed it on a server I just recently bought the other night.
>>>
>>> That's about as far as I've gotten with it at this point, so maybe
>>> someone
>>> can provide some insight?
>> I've ran my toaster in a centos5 + xen combination and been quite
>> happy with it. No stability or perfomance issuses whatsoever.
>>
>> Xen is not officially supported in rhel/centos version 6, but there is
>> a 3rd party repository for the kernel/xen packages and those have been
>> working with ok for my dom0 and web server domUs. As qmailtoaster does
>> not support centos6 yet, I havent tried installing a toaster on
>> centos6 domU though.
>>
>> I would be interested in trying out KVM, but for me it has seemed
>> still a bit immature, so I went with 3rd party Xen. And as time
>> resources are limited I don't want to waste time learning another
>> technology as I have a working solution with Xen.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Peter
>>
>> 
-

>> Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group
>> (www.vickersconsulting.com)
>> Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and
>> installations.
>> If you need professional help with your setup, contact them
>> today!
>> 
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>> packages.
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>>
>>
> Excuse the stupid question, but what's the advantage of VM over
> hardware? Are you running multiple instances of VM? Isn't there a
> performance loss over hard iron when running multiple instances?
>
> CJ
>
I missed addressing your question about performance.  There can be a 
performance hit but for the most part, you can size your hardware to 
absorb that.  Also, believe it or not, most servers live out their 
life never having broken a sweat.  I just got done a battle with some 
high end developers on a job that insisted their application needed 
the "biggest baddest" hardware and no way could they work in a 
virtualized world.  We spent 1/4 million for servers a few years ago 
for them.  A few weeks ago one of the production servers died and was 
out of support.  I moved them to VM after much arguing.  To say the 
least, the lead developer was humbled.  My hosts didn't even skip a beat. 
Thanks for all your answers.  I've started to play with it a bit, but 
could never really see the advantages.  My operation is so small with 2 
servers and simple back up.  I can see where VM can be a benefit.  Any 
experienced VirtualBox users out there?


--
Cecil Yother, Jr. "cj"
cj's
2318 Clement Ave
Alameda, CA  94501

tel 510.865.2787 | http://yother.com
Check out the new Volvo classified resource http://www.volvoclassified.com


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Re: [qmailtoaster] Hypervisor recommendations for virtualizing QMT

[Brent Gardner]

On 01/25/2012 11:44 PM, Casey Price wrote:

Hi all,

I'm curious to hear which hypervisors some of you guys are using for 
virtualizing QMT or just VMs in general. I played around with Citrix 
XenServer for a good 6-8 months last year, very very briefly checked 
out Hyper-V, and currently am running Xen on CentOS 5.7 on a few of my 
PowerEdge 2650's. I also briefly tried out VMware's free one...ESXi?


From what I've been hearing, KVM is supposed to be the new up and 
coming standard. I haven't used it at all and don't know much about 
it, but I was hoping to get some recommendations from others on here. 
Someone mentioned Proxmox on here a few weeks back, so I downloaded 
Proxmox VE 1.9 and installed it on a server I just recently bought the 
other night.


That's about as far as I've gotten with it at this point, so maybe 
someone can provide some insight?


I run my toasters as guests under VMware Server, soon to migrate to ESXi 
v4.  After getting over initial configuration issues (mostly related to 
time sync configuration) I haven't had any problems.


It's nice to be able to snapshot the system before applying major 
updates.  If there's a problem, rolling back to a known good state is a 
single click.


Haven't tried any other virtualization technologies yet.


Brent Gardner



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Re: [qmailtoaster] Hypervisor recommendations for virtualizing QMT

[Phil Leinhauser]

> 
> 
> On 01/26/2012 01:12 AM, Peter Peltonen
wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 26, 2012
at 8:44 AM, Casey Price 
>>
wrote:
>>> I'm curious to hear which hypervisors some of you
guys are using for
>>> virtualizing QMT or just VMs in
general. I played around with Citrix
>>> XenServer for a
good 6-8 months last year, very very briefly checked
>>>
out
>>> Hyper-V, and currently am running Xen on CentOS 5.7
on a few of my
>>> PowerEdge
>>> 2650's. I
also briefly tried out VMware's free one...ESXi?
>>>
>>> 
>From what I've been hearing, KVM is supposed to be
the new up and
>>> coming
>>> standard. I
haven't used it at all and don't know much about it, but I
>>> was
>>> hoping to get some recommendations
from others on here. Someone
>>> mentioned
>>>
Proxmox on here a few weeks back, so I downloaded Proxmox VE 1.9 and
>>> installed it on a server I just recently bought the other
night.
>>>
>>> That's about as far as I've
gotten with it at this point, so maybe
>>> someone
>>> can provide some insight?
>> I've ran my toaster
in a centos5 + xen combination and been quite
>> happy with it.
No stability or perfomance issuses whatsoever.
>>
>>
Xen is not officially supported in rhel/centos version 6, but there is
>> a 3rd party repository for the kernel/xen packages and those
have been
>> working with ok for my dom0 and web server domUs.
As qmailtoaster does
>> not support centos6 yet, I havent tried
installing a toaster on
>> centos6 domU though.
>>
>> I would be interested in trying out KVM, but for
me it has seemed
>> still a bit immature, so I went with 3rd
party Xen. And as time
>> resources are limited I don't want to
waste time learning another
>> technology as I have a working
solution with Xen.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
Peter
>>
>>
-
>> Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group
>> (www.vickersconsulting.com)
>>  Vickers
Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and
>>
installations.
>>If you need professional help with
your setup, contact them
>> today!
>>
-
>>   Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news,
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>> packages.
>>
>>To
unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>
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>>   For
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>>
qmailtoaster-list-h...@qmailtoaster.com
>>
>>
> Excuse the stupid question, but what's the advantage of VM over
> hardware?  Are you running multiple instances of VM?  Isn't there
a
> performance loss over hard iron when running multiple
instances?
> 
> CJ
> 
I missed addressing
your question about performance.  There can be a performance hit but
for the most part, you can size your hardware to absorb that.  Also,
believe it or not, most servers live out their life never having broken a
sweat.  I just got done a battle with some high end developers on a
job that insisted their application needed the "biggest baddest"
hardware and no way could they work in a virtualized world.  We spent
1/4 million for servers a few years ago for them.  A few weeks ago
one of the production servers died and was out of support.  I moved
them to VM after much arguing.  To say the least, the lead developer
was humbled.  My hosts didn't even skip a beat.

Re: [qmailtoaster] Hypervisor recommendations for virtualizing QMT

[Phil Leinhauser]

> 
> 
> On 01/26/2012 01:12 AM, Peter Peltonen
wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 26, 2012
at 8:44 AM, Casey Price 
>>
wrote:
>>> I'm curious to hear which hypervisors some of you
guys are using for
>>> virtualizing QMT or just VMs in
general. I played around with Citrix
>>> XenServer for a
good 6-8 months last year, very very briefly checked
>>>
out
>>> Hyper-V, and currently am running Xen on CentOS 5.7
on a few of my
>>> PowerEdge
>>> 2650's. I
also briefly tried out VMware's free one...ESXi?
>>>
>>> 
>From what I've been hearing, KVM is supposed to be
the new up and
>>> coming
>>> standard. I
haven't used it at all and don't know much about it, but I
>>> was
>>> hoping to get some recommendations
from others on here. Someone
>>> mentioned
>>>
Proxmox on here a few weeks back, so I downloaded Proxmox VE 1.9 and
>>> installed it on a server I just recently bought the other
night.
>>>
>>> That's about as far as I've
gotten with it at this point, so maybe
>>> someone
>>> can provide some insight?
>> I've ran my toaster
in a centos5 + xen combination and been quite
>> happy with it.
No stability or perfomance issuses whatsoever.
>>
>>
Xen is not officially supported in rhel/centos version 6, but there is
>> a 3rd party repository for the kernel/xen packages and those
have been
>> working with ok for my dom0 and web server domUs.
As qmailtoaster does
>> not support centos6 yet, I havent tried
installing a toaster on
>> centos6 domU though.
>>
>> I would be interested in trying out KVM, but for
me it has seemed
>> still a bit immature, so I went with 3rd
party Xen. And as time
>> resources are limited I don't want to
waste time learning another
>> technology as I have a working
solution with Xen.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
Peter
>>
>>
-
>> Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group
>> (www.vickersconsulting.com)
>>  Vickers
Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and
>>
installations.
>>If you need professional help with
your setup, contact them
>> today!
>>
-
>>   Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news,
updates, and
>> packages.
>>
>>To
unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>
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>>   For
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>>
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>>
>>
> Excuse the stupid question, but what's the advantage of VM over
> hardware?  Are you running multiple instances of VM?  Isn't there
a
> performance loss over hard iron when running multiple
instances?
> 
Nah, not stupid if you haven't had the need.
VM allows one iron box server (Host) to run multiple instances of other
servers (Guests) within it.  Those guests can be anything from
Windows, Linux, workstation, server, I think even MAC but not sure. 

The gain is where most time a hard box running something like mail
or database might spend it's life at 10% load or less.  Why waste the
other 90%?  Also, why have the duplicate hardware like drives, power
supplies, etc.

Just to help visualize, I'm running VSphere
4.1.  I have 2 quad core dual xeon socket servers with 16G in
each.  For storage, there's a NAS box (Qnap) with 4Tb sharing out NFS
shares.  On those shares are the files for my VM guests.  The 2
servers (hosts) reach into the NFS and run the guests much like you run
instances of Word, Excell, etc.  Within those 2 hosts, I have a total
of I think 10 guests all running.  Web servers, mail servers,
database servers, etc.  Very cool huh?  As they say, you aint
seen nothin' yet.
Here's where the magic comes in...
Since both
hosts are same hardware and they are managed centrally, if one host drops
dead, within seconds the other host picks up the dead hosts running guest
servers.  Just like clustering but for the whole server not just an
application.
Also, if one of the guests starts getting out of hand
and eats up the hosts resources, other guests will migrate to the other
host to give it room.  All AUTOMAGICALLY!!

Re: [qmailtoaster] Hypervisor recommendations for virtualizing QMT

[Maxwell Smart]

On 01/26/2012 01:12 AM, Peter Peltonen wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 8:44 AM, Casey Price  wrote:

I'm curious to hear which hypervisors some of you guys are using for
virtualizing QMT or just VMs in general. I played around with Citrix
XenServer for a good 6-8 months last year, very very briefly checked out
Hyper-V, and currently am running Xen on CentOS 5.7 on a few of my PowerEdge
2650's. I also briefly tried out VMware's free one...ESXi?

 From what I've been hearing, KVM is supposed to be the new up and coming
standard. I haven't used it at all and don't know much about it, but I was
hoping to get some recommendations from others on here. Someone mentioned
Proxmox on here a few weeks back, so I downloaded Proxmox VE 1.9 and
installed it on a server I just recently bought the other night.

That's about as far as I've gotten with it at this point, so maybe someone
can provide some insight?

I've ran my toaster in a centos5 + xen combination and been quite
happy with it. No stability or perfomance issuses whatsoever.

Xen is not officially supported in rhel/centos version 6, but there is
a 3rd party repository for the kernel/xen packages and those have been
working with ok for my dom0 and web server domUs. As qmailtoaster does
not support centos6 yet, I havent tried installing a toaster on
centos6 domU though.

I would be interested in trying out KVM, but for me it has seemed
still a bit immature, so I went with 3rd party Xen. And as time
resources are limited I don't want to waste time learning another
technology as I have a working solution with Xen.

Regards,
Peter

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Excuse the stupid question, but what's the advantage of VM over 
hardware?  Are you running multiple instances of VM?  Isn't there a 
performance loss over hard iron when running multiple instances?


CJ

--
Cecil Yother, Jr. "cj"
cj's
2318 Clement Ave
Alameda, CA  94501

tel 510.865.2787
http://yother.com
Check out the new Volvo classified resource http://www.volvoclassified.com


-
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(www.vickersconsulting.com)
   Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations.
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Re: [qmailtoaster] Hypervisor recommendations for virtualizing QMT

[Dave MacDonald]

I use both Vsphere 4.1 and ESX1 4.0

One commercial qmail server , the second just for home use and testing 
builds.




On 1/26/2012 2:12 AM, Peter Peltonen wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 8:44 AM, Casey Price  wrote:

I'm curious to hear which hypervisors some of you guys are using for
virtualizing QMT or just VMs in general. I played around with Citrix
XenServer for a good 6-8 months last year, very very briefly checked out
Hyper-V, and currently am running Xen on CentOS 5.7 on a few of my PowerEdge
2650's. I also briefly tried out VMware's free one...ESXi?

 From what I've been hearing, KVM is supposed to be the new up and coming
standard. I haven't used it at all and don't know much about it, but I was
hoping to get some recommendations from others on here. Someone mentioned
Proxmox on here a few weeks back, so I downloaded Proxmox VE 1.9 and
installed it on a server I just recently bought the other night.

That's about as far as I've gotten with it at this point, so maybe someone
can provide some insight?

I've ran my toaster in a centos5 + xen combination and been quite
happy with it. No stability or perfomance issuses whatsoever.

Xen is not officially supported in rhel/centos version 6, but there is
a 3rd party repository for the kernel/xen packages and those have been
working with ok for my dom0 and web server domUs. As qmailtoaster does
not support centos6 yet, I havent tried installing a toaster on
centos6 domU though.

I would be interested in trying out KVM, but for me it has seemed
still a bit immature, so I went with 3rd party Xen. And as time
resources are limited I don't want to waste time learning another
technology as I have a working solution with Xen.

Regards,
Peter

-
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(www.vickersconsulting.com)
 Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations.
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Re: [qmailtoaster] Hypervisor recommendations for virtualizing QMT

[Phil Leinhauser]

> Hi all,
> 
> I'm curious to hear which hypervisors
some of you guys are using for
> virtualizing QMT or just VMs in
general. I played around with Citrix
> XenServer for a good 6-8
months last year, very very briefly checked out
> Hyper-V, and
currently am running Xen on CentOS 5.7 on a few of my
> PowerEdge
2650's. I also briefly tried out VMware's free one...ESXi?
> 
> 
>From what I've been hearing, KVM is supposed to be the new up
and
> coming standard. I haven't used it at all and don't know
much about it,
> but I was hoping to get some recommendations from
others on here.
> Someone mentioned Proxmox on here a few weeks
back, so I downloaded
> Proxmox VE 1.9 and installed it on a
server I just recently bought the
> other night.
> 
> That's about as far as I've gotten with it at this point, so
maybe
> someone can provide some insight?


Because
I have loads of time with the VMWare products, I tend to lean that
way.  (Owning stock doesn't hurt either).
 I think really the
key isn't as much how it works inside the hypervisor  but how easy is it
to manage from the inside or outside.  I like the  tools that are
available to the ESX world.  I also leverage the HA (hot  migrations)
if a host fails or becomes swamped.
 That being said, I'll be honest,
I haven't even tried any of the others.
 
 Phil

Re: [qmailtoaster] Hypervisor recommendations for virtualizing QMT

[Peter Peltonen]

Hi,

On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 8:44 AM, Casey Price  wrote:
> I'm curious to hear which hypervisors some of you guys are using for
> virtualizing QMT or just VMs in general. I played around with Citrix
> XenServer for a good 6-8 months last year, very very briefly checked out
> Hyper-V, and currently am running Xen on CentOS 5.7 on a few of my PowerEdge
> 2650's. I also briefly tried out VMware's free one...ESXi?
>
> From what I've been hearing, KVM is supposed to be the new up and coming
> standard. I haven't used it at all and don't know much about it, but I was
> hoping to get some recommendations from others on here. Someone mentioned
> Proxmox on here a few weeks back, so I downloaded Proxmox VE 1.9 and
> installed it on a server I just recently bought the other night.
>
> That's about as far as I've gotten with it at this point, so maybe someone
> can provide some insight?

I've ran my toaster in a centos5 + xen combination and been quite
happy with it. No stability or perfomance issuses whatsoever.

Xen is not officially supported in rhel/centos version 6, but there is
a 3rd party repository for the kernel/xen packages and those have been
working with ok for my dom0 and web server domUs. As qmailtoaster does
not support centos6 yet, I havent tried installing a toaster on
centos6 domU though.

I would be interested in trying out KVM, but for me it has seemed
still a bit immature, so I went with 3rd party Xen. And as time
resources are limited I don't want to waste time learning another
technology as I have a working solution with Xen.

Regards,
Peter

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[qmailtoaster] Hypervisor recommendations for virtualizing QMT

[Casey Price]

Hi all,

I'm curious to hear which hypervisors some of you guys are using for 
virtualizing QMT or just VMs in general. I played around with Citrix 
XenServer for a good 6-8 months last year, very very briefly checked out 
Hyper-V, and currently am running Xen on CentOS 5.7 on a few of my 
PowerEdge 2650's. I also briefly tried out VMware's free one...ESXi?


From what I've been hearing, KVM is supposed to be the new up and 
coming standard. I haven't used it at all and don't know much about it, 
but I was hoping to get some recommendations from others on here. 
Someone mentioned Proxmox on here a few weeks back, so I downloaded 
Proxmox VE 1.9 and installed it on a server I just recently bought the 
other night.


That's about as far as I've gotten with it at this point, so maybe 
someone can provide some insight?


--
Casey Price

Smile Global Technical Support
Submit or check trouble tickets http://billing.smileglobal.com
www.smileglobal.com 

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